It's time to play.... Pick That Nose!

[Steven Gaal]

BUMPED

DAVID JOSEPHS SIR

This El Toro vs Santa Ana problem .....did Mr. Parker or Mr. Purnell ever address that H & L confirming data ?

Wait wait ....I guess no . ,gaal

]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

As to disinformation Eddowes was some type of deep asset to muddy the waters.

As to the Donald Norton , I recall he was pushed on Jack White (when Jack and Armstrong were working together) by a fellow from Nevada.

Said place were this fellow lived was (per Jack White) a mortgage house from a bank connected to the Walker family (As in George Herbert Walker Bush)

Armstrong spent a great deal of energy looking into said Norton and concluded that he was not a Oswald Double. Yet he did have a Russian wife !!!

(I found that they were both at some type of real estate event or some such)

Was this done to muddy the waters ??? Maybe the H & L crowd was to think of a double MARINA !! HA !!

I am very suspicious of the anti H & L crowd via the above info. ,gaal

[David Josephs]

Ya know what Greg, How about shutting the expletive up already.

Nobody here cares what you have to say or offer. There was a time when you almost had something to say years ago... But that time has passed.

Put that next volume up mate... Like you with JA, I too can play this game... I too belong to Amazon and can review the book, unread as you've done to H&L.

You ever wonder why no one here has written a single word about vol 1 while you've spent the last year opening up the world of H&L to all sorts of people who want to know what could be so volitile to engulf your time and how you can be so wrong all the time.

So we come to find, bottom line, your books rest on H&L not being true... Cause you say so. Your, 'reasonable to assume' junk that reflects those faith-based conclusions which you cling to like a life raft.

No worries sport. When and if you ever get around to your own work... We'll all have some fun.

Btw, you want to debate H&L anywhere anytime you let me know. John needn't dirty his hands...

As you like to say... You got nothing.

Hugs and kisses mate...

[Thomas Graves]

On 8/25/2015 at 5:26 PM, David Josephs said:

Ya know what Greg, How about shutting the expletive up already.

Nobody here cares what you have to say or offer.

There was a time when you almost had something to say years ago... But that time has passed.

Put that next volume up mate... Like you with JA, I too can play this game... I too belong to Amazon and can review the book, unread as you've done to H&L.

You ever wonder why no one here has written a single word about vol 1 while you've spent the last year opening up the world of H&L to all sorts of people who want to know what could be so volitile to engulf your time and how you can be so wrong all the time.

So we come to find, bottom line, your books rest on H&L not being true... Cause you say so. Your, 'reasonable to assume' junk that reflects those faith-based conclusions which you cling to like a life raft.

No worries sport. When and if you ever get around to your own work... We'll all have some fun.

Btw, you want to debate H&L anywhere anytime you let me know. John needn't dirty his hands...

As you like to say... You got nothing.

Hugs and kisses mate...

 

Who are you to say that, Josephs? Do you actually think you speak for everybody "here" ?

Or is Greg Parker just getting under your skin a little and frustrating you because you can't rationally counter the excellent points he brings up regarding the subject of this thread?

--Tommy

Edited March 7, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Greg Parker]

You ever wonder why no one here has written a single word about vol 1

Not really. Few have any interest in what happened in Bogota nearly 70 years ago, despite most immediately recognizing its importance. The rest of the book is also likely too far outside most peoples comfort zone. It's not a remake of any other book. It's asking people to consider things no one has asked of them before. In short, a lot of people just prefer what's comfortable for them... familiar stories, familiar names. I didn't give it to them.

while you've spent the last year opening up the world of H&L to all sorts of people who want to know what could be so volitile to engulf your time and how you can be so wrong all the time.

If all of that is true, you have zero to be so upset about.

So we come to find, bottom line, your books rest on H&L not being true.

Repeating a falsehood, David? Not good form. To repeat myself, if H & L turned out to be true, it has zero effect on my work. In fact, I'm considering including a possible real example of an impersonation in Moscow in the next volume. Dunno. Depends how strong the case looks once I put the data together and write it up. But that's a long long way from confirming your doppelganger.

[David G. Healy]

Ya know what Greg, How about shutting the expletive up already.

Nobody here cares what you have to say or offer. There was a time when you almost had something to say years ago... But that time has passed.

Put that next volume up mate... Like you with JA, I too can play this game... I too belong to Amazon and can review the book, unread as you've done to H&L.

You ever wonder why no one here has written a single word about vol 1 while you've spent the last year opening up the world of H&L to all sorts of people who want to know what could be so volitile to engulf your time and how you can be so wrong all the time.

So we come to find, bottom line, your books rest on H&L not being true... Cause you say so. Your, 'reasonable to assume' junk that reflects those faith-based conclusions which you cling to like a life raft.

No worries sport. When and if you ever get around to your own work... We'll all have some fun.

Btw, you want to debate H&L anywhere anytime you let me know. John needn't dirty his hands...

As you like to say... You got nothing.

Hugs and kisses mate...

[emphasis by T. Graves]

Who are you to say that, Josephs? Do you actually think you speak for everybody "here" ?

Or is Greg Parker just getting under your skin a little and frustrating you because you can't rationally counter the excellent points he brings up regarding the subject of this thread?

--Tommy

lmao! Surely you jest Tom? If Greg wants topic feedback, just publish then defend if warranted. What's the problem?

Self-publish, turn the research community on its head like John's H&L did, and quite frankly could afford to do. We'll weigh the goods and take notice if the anti WCR goods are there...

When published I doubt Greg will be put on PR trial--whether his project pans out or not.

What is YOUR goal concerning this subject matter? Do you have a dog in these anti H&L attack?

[Greg Parker]

Do you have a dog in these anti H&L attack?

Just one thing David. It's not an anti H & L attack per se. It's anti an BS attack. It's an attack on fiddling with the evidence. It's an attack those theories - whatever they are - that make a mockery of this so-called community.

[Greg Parker]

This El Toro vs Santa Ana problem .....did Mr. Parker or Mr. Purnell ever address that H & L confirming data ?

There is no problem.

Santa Ana was attached to and under the command of El Toro. Because of that, anyone talking about El Toro could be talking about El Toro itself, Santa Ana - or both. The opposite does not apply. If Santa Ana is mentioned, it can only be reference to Santa Ana.

That you guys see a problem here says it all about your willingness to see whatever you want to see.

[Thomas Graves]

Ya know what Greg, How about shutting the expletive up already.

Nobody here cares what you have to say or offer. There was a time when you almost had something to say years ago... But that time has passed.

Put that next volume up mate... Like you with JA, I too can play this game... I too belong to Amazon and can review the book, unread as you've done to H&L.

You ever wonder why no one here has written a single word about vol 1 while you've spent the last year opening up the world of H&L to all sorts of people who want to know what could be so volitile to engulf your time and how you can be so wrong all the time.

So we come to find, bottom line, your books rest on H&L not being true... Cause you say so. Your, 'reasonable to assume' junk that reflects those faith-based conclusions which you cling to like a life raft.

No worries sport. When and if you ever get around to your own work... We'll all have some fun.

Btw, you want to debate H&L anywhere anytime you let me know. John needn't dirty his hands...

As you like to say... You got nothing.

Hugs and kisses mate...

[emphasis by T. Graves]

Who are you to say that, Josephs? Do you actually think you speak for everybody "here" ?

Or is Greg Parker just getting under your skin a little and frustrating you because you can't rationally counter the excellent points he brings up regarding the subject of this thread?

--Tommy

lmao! Surely you jest Tom? If Greg wants topic feedback, just publish then defend if warranted. What's the problem?

Self-publish, turn the research community on its head like John's H&L did, and quite frankly could afford to do. We'll weigh the goods and take notice if the anti WCR goods are there...

When published I doubt Greg will be put on PR trial--whether his project pans out or not.

What is YOUR goal concerning this subject matter? Do you have a dog in these anti H&L attack?

David G. Healy,

Do you think that Josephs rightfully speaks for everyone "here" when he says that "nobody here" cares about what Greg says?

My goal concerning this subject, David, should be self evident by now -- to help expose Harvey and Lee for what it is: an all-to-comfortable, paranoiac paradigm based on the logical fallacy known as the "Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy" (q.v.), and on its psychological counterpart, the "Clustering Illusion" (q.v.) syndrome.

BTW, do you think that only members who believe in the Harvey and Lee "theory" should post on this thread?

--Tommy

Edited August 26, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Steven Gaal]

bumped

"Jeans for him at this stage is actually a intel training exercise ....the art of disguise."

Ha ha ha!! Are you a night club Comic Steven?

For the 100th time of asking...Where was 'Lee' and what did he tell his friends and family while 'Harvey' was in Russia?

LEE ??

Posted 16 August 2015 - 02:23 PM , (Gaal) Gee you probably didn't understand. gaal

Bill Simpich

====================

Banister was good at this kind of thing -- he had people such as his associate Don Campbell and staffer Tommy Baumler working to infiltrate left-wing college groups. [31] Someone had to spy on the New Orleans Council for Peaceful Alternatives, who invited troublemakers like Father Phil Berrigan to speak on the immorality of nuclear weapons.

In May, Oswald started off by leaving FPCC fliers at the Tulane Library, a good way to flush out pro-Castro types that might try to infiltrate anti-communist groups. [32] In June, he was leafleting sailors at the USS Wasp. Using the waterfront was second nature for an ex-Marine like Oswald. No surprise that FPCC agitation at the harbor resulted in the circulation of the Oswald legend throughout military intelligence.

The DRE had been thoroughly penetrated by Carlos Bringuier's relative Jorge, and was considered totally insecure by the CIA

The DRE took the CIA's money but were difficult to work with. This group was young, motivated, and very dangerous. In August 1962, they shelled government buildings in Havana and then bragged about it, while Castro was infuriated at this latest act of terrorism and attempted assassination. They attracted the attention of the Cuban's government's DGI. The role of the DGI in Cuba was to penetrate counter-revolutionary organizations. Counterintelligence analyst Ray Rocca made it very clear years later that he agreed that the DRE was heavily infiltrated by Cuban government DGI agents by 1962.

Several CIA officers had also concluded that the DRE was totally insecure. Officer Calvin Thomas was concerned that the DRE might have even played a role in killing Kennedy.

Jorge Bringuier was the brother-in-law of New Orleans DRE leader Carlos Bringuier. (While DRE official Juan Salvat describes him as nephew, Carlos says brother-in-law.) Jorge Bringuier disgraced the family by becoming a Castro agent and betraying the Cuban wing of the DRE. After he became national coordinator in Cuba in 1962, just about all of the Cuban DRE members were arrested. There's a contemporaneous memo about this betrayal in early 1963. Jorge was pitched to defect on 12/6/63, and he sent a telegram to his mother on 12/13 saying that he was "out" and with the Americans. Jorge was a CIA agent by 1968.

In late July, ten Cuban exiles traveled from Miami to New Orleans and joined an anti-Castro training camp north of New Orleans. This training camp was on the land of Michael McLaney, a friend of "gamblers in Cuba", and the new arrivals at the camp had obtained some dynamite and were planning to bomb Cuban oil refineries. The leader of the dynamite procurement was Victor Espinosa Hernandez. Espinosa's group asked New Orleans DRE leader Carlos Bringuier to assist them. Bringuier had worked for some time in the same building as Banister, serving as the press and propaganda secretary of the aforementioned CRC.

On July 31, the FBI swooped into a home in the New Orleans area and seized a ton of dynamite, bomb casings, napalm material and other devices. Eleven people were arrested. Bringuier escaped arrest. Why? It looks like US intelligence forces wanted a more subtle approach to test Bringuier's loyalties.

Oswald Came to Center Stage After the Arms Seizure As An Asset

This arms seizure by the FBI triggered Oswald to go public, who had been working with Banister doing some quiet leafleting on behalf of the FPCC. At a minimum, Oswald was being used as an asset, defined by the House Select Committe on Assassinations as "anyone used in an operation or project, whether or not that (person) is aware that he is being used". The CIA referred to a person who did not know that he had done anything to help the CIA as an "unwilling co-optee". Whether he knew it or not, Oswald was being used as a counter-intelligence asset.

1. The main goal was to make the FPCC look bad.

2. Incidentally, an anti-FPCC operation would divert public attention from the recent terrorist plans of the anti-Castro underground. This vigilante plan to napalm Cuba did not look good.

3. Along the way, it made sense to try to determine if Carlos Bringuier might be pro-Castro, or if Jorge Bringuier could be brought back into the anti-Castro fold. Carlos may have been used by those using Oswald.

===

OH yeah WINK ,gaal

================

The CIA examined Celso Hernandez as a Castro penetration agent

There is an intriguing report of FPCC member Oswald being arrested with Celso Hernandez in New Orleans in late 1962 (see pp. 6-7, (follow-up at pp. 16-18) The ID of Hernandez was made years later and is admittedly shaky. The ID of Oswald is more substantive, as he id'd himself to the police as an FPCC member - but he was living in the Dallas area. The story is that the two men were picked up at the lakefront in Celso's work truck, owned by an electronics firm that was Celso's employer.

The most important thing is that right about this time, Bill Harvey - who worked both the wiretapping side and the Cuban beat for the CIA during 1962 - was tipped off on 10/1/62 that Celso Hernandez might be a communist. This kicked off an investigation that revealed in the autumn of 1963 that there was a left-wing Celso and a right-wing Celso, and a brother and sister who couldn't agree on who was who. [33] Oswald and Celso Hernandez were arrested together again in August 1963. What we do know is that throughout this era, Hernandez was under close scrutiny as a possible pro-Castro infiltrator. Below, we see Oswald's interactions with Carlos and Celso.

==

[33] Bill Harvey - who worked both the wiretapping side and the Cuban beat for the CIA during 1962 - was tipped off on 10/1/62 that Celso Hernandez might be a communist: For the 1962 Oswald-Hernandez arrest, see memo from investigator John Volz to DA Jim Garrison, 3/1/67, pp. 6-7, (follow-up at pp. 16-18) RIF# 180-10085-10407. http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/41827/rec/3 =======

[Thomas Graves]

You ever wonder why no one here has written a single word about vol 1 while you've spent the last year opening up the world of H&L to all sorts of people who want to know what could be so volitile to engulf your time and how you can be so wrong all the time.

Not true, Mr. Josephs. I found at least one individual who has written more than a single word about Volume 1:

"Of note is Greg Parker's account of the 1948 assassination in Bogota of Gaitan by a hypnotized patsy as John Foster Dulles attended a Panamerican conference in that city.

"The assassination was. . .blamed on communists."

http://forum.assassinationofjfk.net/index.php/topic/283-alliance-for-progress-alianza-para-el-progreso/

"Greg Parker in his first of a trilogy, The Cold War of Lee Harvey Oswald, treats the 1948 assassination of Colombian leader Gaitlan as the archetypal lone nut architecture so common in subsequent years. Foster was in Bogota when it went down."

http://forum.assassinationofjfk.net/index.php/topic/122-jfk-assassination-cia-and-new-york-times-are-still-lying-to-us-by-david-talbot/

Randy,

Take it easy on David Josephs.

We all know how prone to hyperbole he is.

--Tommy

[Steven Gaal]

This El Toro vs Santa Ana problem .....did Mr. Parker or Mr. Purnell ever address that H & L confirming data ?

There is no problem.

Santa Ana was attached to and under the command of El Toro. Because of that, anyone talking about El Toro could be talking about El Toro itself, Santa Ana - or both. The opposite does not apply. If Santa Ana is mentioned, it can only be reference to Santa Ana.

That you guys see a problem here says it all about your willingness to see whatever you want to see.

PROBLEM ,gaal

Per Armstrong , 'the unit diaries from El Toro from the first half of 1959 have disappeared' link >>> http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html

Edited August 26, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[David Josephs]

You ever wonder why no one here has written a single word about vol 1 while you've spent the last year opening up the world of H&L to all sorts of people who want to know what could be so volitile to engulf your time and how you can be so wrong all the time.

Not true, Mr. Josephs. I found at least one individual who has written more than a single word about Volume 1:

"Of note is Greg Parker's account of the 1948 assassination in Bogota of Gaitan by a hypnotized patsy as John Foster Dulles attended a Panamerican conference in that city.

"The assassination was. . .blamed on communists."

http://forum.assassinationofjfk.net/index.php/topic/283-alliance-for-progress-alianza-para-el-progreso/

"Greg Parker in his first of a trilogy, The Cold War of Lee Harvey Oswald, treats the 1948 assassination of Colombian leader Gaitlan as the archetypal lone nut architecture so common in subsequent years. Foster was in Bogota when it went down."

http://forum.assassinationofjfk.net/index.php/topic/122-jfk-assassination-cia-and-new-york-times-are-still-lying-to-us-by-david-talbot/

Yes Randy, Phil is a good friend... These were posted almost 18 months ago...

"Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:28 AM"

"Posted 15 May 2014 - 02:31 AM"

2 post in 18 months... the interest and discussion about the work is overwhelming.

The Harvey and Lee thread here - only one of them - started in 2004, readdressed in 2012, & again with the 29th post in May 2015... over 1400 replies since. No wonder he has grabbed JA's coat tails... a few more people may look his direction now... only now it will be with the understanding of how much contempt a person can have for a fellow researcher to create controversy to garner the littlest bit of attention. You don't suppose Greg used any of the JA ARchive info, Baylor info or anything else John brought to light... nah, never happen.

1,444 replies

54,096 views

You mean you don't even have a few threads at the new ROKC from this year discussing his work among yourselves? Nobody is even bothering with it in his own backyard - you have to go to yet another forum to find these old posts... Nothing here at all?

Yet they have time to create hate threads against the members here and post repeatedly - the attack on Glenn started Aug 1 and already has 28 posts... while no one is discussing either of the books

Guess that gives you all a good idea of the priorities there and why they need to come here to find something to talk about and someone to make fun of - it's what little boys do.

Glenn Nall

by

steely dan

August 1, 2015 at 8:48 PM

Posts 28

Views 917

Last post 7 hours ago

[Greg Parker]

You ever wonder why no one here has written a single word about vol 1 while you've spent the last year opening up the world of H&L to all sorts of people who want to know what could be so volitile to engulf your time and how you can be so wrong all the time.

Not true, Mr. Josephs. I found at least one individual who has written more than a single word about Volume 1:

"Of note is Greg Parker's account of the 1948 assassination in Bogota of Gaitan by a hypnotized patsy as John Foster Dulles attended a Panamerican conference in that city.

"The assassination was. . .blamed on communists."

http://forum.assassinationofjfk.net/index.php/topic/283-alliance-for-progress-alianza-para-el-progreso/

"Greg Parker in his first of a trilogy, The Cold War of Lee Harvey Oswald, treats the 1948 assassination of Colombian leader Gaitlan as the archetypal lone nut architecture so common in subsequent years. Foster was in Bogota when it went down."

http://forum.assassinationofjfk.net/index.php/topic/122-jfk-assassination-cia-and-new-york-times-are-still-lying-to-us-by-david-talbot/

Yes Randy, Phil is a good friend... These were posted almost 18 months ago...

"Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:28 AM"

"Posted 15 May 2014 - 02:31 AM"

2 post in 18 months... the interest and discussion about the work is overwhelming.

The Harvey and Lee thread here - only one of them - started in 2004, readdressed in 2012, & again with the 29th post in May 2015... over 1400 replies since. No wonder he has grabbed JA's coat tails... a few more people may look his direction now... only now it will be with the understanding of how much contempt a person can have for a fellow researcher to create controversy to garner the littlest bit of attention. You don't suppose Greg used any of the JA ARchive info, Baylor info or anything else John brought to light... nah, never happen.

1,444 replies

54,096 views

You mean you don't even have a few threads at the new ROKC from this year discussing his work among yourselves? Nobody is even bothering with it in his own backyard - you have to go to yet another forum to find these old posts... Nothing here at all?

Yet they have time to create hate threads against the members here and post repeatedly - the attack on Glenn started Aug 1 and already has 28 posts... while no one is discussing either of the books

Guess that gives you all a good idea of the priorities there and why they need to come here to find something to talk about and someone to make fun of - it's what little boys do.

Glenn Nall

by

steely dan

August 1, 2015 at 8:48 PM

Posts 28

Views 917

Last post 7 hours ago

LOL. At least they know how to stay on topic,

What exactly did you enter this topic for, David? Doesn't appear to have been to address the issue raised, since all you've done is continually try and change topics and attack the messenger.

[Greg Parker]

bumped

"Jeans for him at this stage is actually a intel training exercise ....the art of disguise."

Ha ha ha!! Are you a night club Comic Steven?

For the 100th time of asking...Where was 'Lee' and what did he tell his friends and family while 'Harvey' was in Russia?

LEE ??

Posted 16 August 2015 - 02:23 PM , (Gaal) Gee you probably didn't understand. gaal

Bill Simpich

====================

Banister was good at this kind of thing -- he had people such as his associate Don Campbell and staffer Tommy Baumler working to infiltrate left-wing college groups. [31] Someone had to spy on the New Orleans Council for Peaceful Alternatives, who invited troublemakers like Father Phil Berrigan to speak on the immorality of nuclear weapons.

In May, Oswald started off by leaving FPCC fliers at the Tulane Library, a good way to flush out pro-Castro types that might try to infiltrate anti-communist groups. [32] In June, he was leafleting sailors at the USS Wasp. Using the waterfront was second nature for an ex-Marine like Oswald. No surprise that FPCC agitation at the harbor resulted in the circulation of the Oswald legend throughout military intelligence.

The DRE had been thoroughly penetrated by Carlos Bringuier's relative Jorge, and was considered totally insecure by the CIA

The DRE took the CIA's money but were difficult to work with. This group was young, motivated, and very dangerous. In August 1962, they shelled government buildings in Havana and then bragged about it, while Castro was infuriated at this latest act of terrorism and attempted assassination. They attracted the attention of the Cuban's government's DGI. The role of the DGI in Cuba was to penetrate counter-revolutionary organizations. Counterintelligence analyst Ray Rocca made it very clear years later that he agreed that the DRE was heavily infiltrated by Cuban government DGI agents by 1962.

Several CIA officers had also concluded that the DRE was totally insecure. Officer Calvin Thomas was concerned that the DRE might have even played a role in killing Kennedy.

Jorge Bringuier was the brother-in-law of New Orleans DRE leader Carlos Bringuier. (While DRE official Juan Salvat describes him as nephew, Carlos says brother-in-law.) Jorge Bringuier disgraced the family by becoming a Castro agent and betraying the Cuban wing of the DRE. After he became national coordinator in Cuba in 1962, just about all of the Cuban DRE members were arrested. There's a contemporaneous memo about this betrayal in early 1963. Jorge was pitched to defect on 12/6/63, and he sent a telegram to his mother on 12/13 saying that he was "out" and with the Americans. Jorge was a CIA agent by 1968.

In late July, ten Cuban exiles traveled from Miami to New Orleans and joined an anti-Castro training camp north of New Orleans. This training camp was on the land of Michael McLaney, a friend of "gamblers in Cuba", and the new arrivals at the camp had obtained some dynamite and were planning to bomb Cuban oil refineries. The leader of the dynamite procurement was Victor Espinosa Hernandez. Espinosa's group asked New Orleans DRE leader Carlos Bringuier to assist them. Bringuier had worked for some time in the same building as Banister, serving as the press and propaganda secretary of the aforementioned CRC.

On July 31, the FBI swooped into a home in the New Orleans area and seized a ton of dynamite, bomb casings, napalm material and other devices. Eleven people were arrested. Bringuier escaped arrest. Why? It looks like US intelligence forces wanted a more subtle approach to test Bringuier's loyalties.

Oswald Came to Center Stage After the Arms Seizure As An Asset

This arms seizure by the FBI triggered Oswald to go public, who had been working with Banister doing some quiet leafleting on behalf of the FPCC. At a minimum, Oswald was being used as an asset, defined by the House Select Committe on Assassinations as "anyone used in an operation or project, whether or not that (person) is aware that he is being used". The CIA referred to a person who did not know that he had done anything to help the CIA as an "unwilling co-optee". Whether he knew it or not, Oswald was being used as a counter-intelligence asset.

1. The main goal was to make the FPCC look bad.

2. Incidentally, an anti-FPCC operation would divert public attention from the recent terrorist plans of the anti-Castro underground. This vigilante plan to napalm Cuba did not look good.

3. Along the way, it made sense to try to determine if Carlos Bringuier might be pro-Castro, or if Jorge Bringuier could be brought back into the anti-Castro fold. Carlos may have been used by those using Oswald.

===

OH yeah WINK ,gaal

================

The CIA examined Celso Hernandez as a Castro penetration agent

There is an intriguing report of FPCC member Oswald being arrested with Celso Hernandez in New Orleans in late 1962 (see pp. 6-7, (follow-up at pp. 16-18) The ID of Hernandez was made years later and is admittedly shaky. The ID of Oswald is more substantive, as he id'd himself to the police as an FPCC member - but he was living in the Dallas area. The story is that the two men were picked up at the lakefront in Celso's work truck, owned by an electronics firm that was Celso's employer.

The most important thing is that right about this time, Bill Harvey - who worked both the wiretapping side and the Cuban beat for the CIA during 1962 - was tipped off on 10/1/62 that Celso Hernandez might be a communist. This kicked off an investigation that revealed in the autumn of 1963 that there was a left-wing Celso and a right-wing Celso, and a brother and sister who couldn't agree on who was who. [33] Oswald and Celso Hernandez were arrested together again in August 1963. What we do know is that throughout this era, Hernandez was under close scrutiny as a possible pro-Castro infiltrator. Below, we see Oswald's interactions with Carlos and Celso.

==

[33] Bill Harvey - who worked both the wiretapping side and the Cuban beat for the CIA during 1962 - was tipped off on 10/1/62 that Celso Hernandez might be a communist: For the 1962 Oswald-Hernandez arrest, see memo from investigator John Volz to DA Jim Garrison, 3/1/67, pp. 6-7, (follow-up at pp. 16-18) RIF# 180-10085-10407. http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/41827/rec/3 =======

"PTC's (paranoid conspiracy theorists) seem to like to use CAPS for EMPHASIS.)"

This guys seems to know you personally, Steve!

http://skepdic.com/illuminati.html

[Steven Gaal]

bumped

"Jeans for him at this stage is actually a intel training exercise ....the art of disguise."

Ha ha ha!! Are you a night club Comic Steven?

For the 100th time of asking...Where was 'Lee' and what did he tell his friends and family while 'Harvey' was in Russia?

LEE ??

Posted 16 August 2015 - 02:23 PM , (Gaal) Gee you probably didn't understand. gaal

Bill Simpich

====================

Banister was good at this kind of thing -- he had people such as his associate Don Campbell and staffer Tommy Baumler working to infiltrate left-wing college groups. [31] Someone had to spy on the New Orleans Council for Peaceful Alternatives, who invited troublemakers like Father Phil Berrigan to speak on the immorality of nuclear weapons.

In May, Oswald started off by leaving FPCC fliers at the Tulane Library, a good way to flush out pro-Castro types that might try to infiltrate anti-communist groups. [32] In June, he was leafleting sailors at the USS Wasp. Using the waterfront was second nature for an ex-Marine like Oswald. No surprise that FPCC agitation at the harbor resulted in the circulation of the Oswald legend throughout military intelligence.

The DRE had been thoroughly penetrated by Carlos Bringuier's relative Jorge, and was considered totally insecure by the CIA

The DRE took the CIA's money but were difficult to work with. This group was young, motivated, and very dangerous. In August 1962, they shelled government buildings in Havana and then bragged about it, while Castro was infuriated at this latest act of terrorism and attempted assassination. They attracted the attention of the Cuban's government's DGI. The role of the DGI in Cuba was to penetrate counter-revolutionary organizations. Counterintelligence analyst Ray Rocca made it very clear years later that he agreed that the DRE was heavily infiltrated by Cuban government DGI agents by 1962.

Several CIA officers had also concluded that the DRE was totally insecure. Officer Calvin Thomas was concerned that the DRE might have even played a role in killing Kennedy.

Jorge Bringuier was the brother-in-law of New Orleans DRE leader Carlos Bringuier. (While DRE official Juan Salvat describes him as nephew, Carlos says brother-in-law.) Jorge Bringuier disgraced the family by becoming a Castro agent and betraying the Cuban wing of the DRE. After he became national coordinator in Cuba in 1962, just about all of the Cuban DRE members were arrested. There's a contemporaneous memo about this betrayal in early 1963. Jorge was pitched to defect on 12/6/63, and he sent a telegram to his mother on 12/13 saying that he was "out" and with the Americans. Jorge was a CIA agent by 1968.

In late July, ten Cuban exiles traveled from Miami to New Orleans and joined an anti-Castro training camp north of New Orleans. This training camp was on the land of Michael McLaney, a friend of "gamblers in Cuba", and the new arrivals at the camp had obtained some dynamite and were planning to bomb Cuban oil refineries. The leader of the dynamite procurement was Victor Espinosa Hernandez. Espinosa's group asked New Orleans DRE leader Carlos Bringuier to assist them. Bringuier had worked for some time in the same building as Banister, serving as the press and propaganda secretary of the aforementioned CRC.

On July 31, the FBI swooped into a home in the New Orleans area and seized a ton of dynamite, bomb casings, napalm material and other devices. Eleven people were arrested. Bringuier escaped arrest. Why? It looks like US intelligence forces wanted a more subtle approach to test Bringuier's loyalties.

Oswald Came to Center Stage After the Arms Seizure As An Asset

This arms seizure by the FBI triggered Oswald to go public, who had been working with Banister doing some quiet leafleting on behalf of the FPCC. At a minimum, Oswald was being used as an asset, defined by the House Select Committe on Assassinations as "anyone used in an operation or project, whether or not that (person) is aware that he is being used". The CIA referred to a person who did not know that he had done anything to help the CIA as an "unwilling co-optee". Whether he knew it or not, Oswald was being used as a counter-intelligence asset.

1. The main goal was to make the FPCC look bad.

2. Incidentally, an anti-FPCC operation would divert public attention from the recent terrorist plans of the anti-Castro underground. This vigilante plan to napalm Cuba did not look good.

3. Along the way, it made sense to try to determine if Carlos Bringuier might be pro-Castro, or if Jorge Bringuier could be brought back into the anti-Castro fold. Carlos may have been used by those using Oswald.

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OH yeah WINK ,gaal

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The CIA examined Celso Hernandez as a Castro penetration agent

There is an intriguing report of FPCC member Oswald being arrested with Celso Hernandez in New Orleans in late 1962 (see pp. 6-7, (follow-up at pp. 16-18) The ID of Hernandez was made years later and is admittedly shaky. The ID of Oswald is more substantive, as he id'd himself to the police as an FPCC member - but he was living in the Dallas area. The story is that the two men were picked up at the lakefront in Celso's work truck, owned by an electronics firm that was Celso's employer.

The most important thing is that right about this time, Bill Harvey - who worked both the wiretapping side and the Cuban beat for the CIA during 1962 - was tipped off on 10/1/62 that Celso Hernandez might be a communist. This kicked off an investigation that revealed in the autumn of 1963 that there was a left-wing Celso and a right-wing Celso, and a brother and sister who couldn't agree on who was who. [33] Oswald and Celso Hernandez were arrested together again in August 1963. What we do know is that throughout this era, Hernandez was under close scrutiny as a possible pro-Castro infiltrator. Below, we see Oswald's interactions with Carlos and Celso.

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[33] Bill Harvey - who worked both the wiretapping side and the Cuban beat for the CIA during 1962 - was tipped off on 10/1/62 that Celso Hernandez might be a communist: For the 1962 Oswald-Hernandez arrest, see memo from investigator John Volz to DA Jim Garrison, 3/1/67, pp. 6-7, (follow-up at pp. 16-18) RIF# 180-10085-10407. http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/41827/rec/3 =======

"PTC's (paranoid conspiracy theorists) seem to like to use CAPS for EMPHASIS.)"

This guys seems to know you personally, Steve!

http://skepdic.com/illuminati.html

This guys seems to know you personally, Steve!

http://skepdic.com/illuminati.html // PARKER QUOTE AND LINK

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Insult after insult and the moderators do nothing. Little education I see here.// gaal

Edited August 30, 2015 by Steven Gaal