Jon G. Tidd Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 "If a banking institution of some kind didn't punch those holes, then who do you think did?" Wrong threshold question. The correct threshold question is, what do the holes signify? The next question is, at the time in question, which Federal Reserve banks punched their endorsements, as opposed to stamping their endorsements? Assuming the answers to the first two questions don't raise eyebrows, the third question is, could the hole punches have been faked? And if so, by whom? As I understand, the money order in question should have been archived in Kansas City, not Arlington (I believe), Virginia. How did FBI agents on the night of November 22 know to go looking other than at Kansas City? I recall reading several years ago an assertion that the FBI received an anonymous tip on the night of November 22 to look at Arlington(?), Virginia. And yes, Tommy, I believe the whole of the official record is a fake. Why? If you're going to kill the President of the United States and try to cover it up, you're in a position and willing to fake whatever's necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) And yes, Tommy, I believe the whole of the official record is a fake. Why? If you're going to kill the President of the United States and try to cover it up, you're in a position and willing to fake whatever's necessary. Even MULTIPLE backyard photos---when faking just ONE such photo would easily have sufficed? And the faking of the ENTIRE paper trail linking Oswald to the rifle (and the pistol)---when planting JUST THE RIFLE itself (with Oswald's prints on it) would easily have sufficed? How much of this "Fakery" crap is a reasonable and sensible person supposed to swallow whole, Jon? Evidently you think the answer to my last question is --- As much evidence as there is in the entire Kennedy case. IMO, when somebody has to resort to a belief like this --- "I believe the whole of the official record is a fake" --- that person should probably start to re-think his entire approach to the evidence. Because "the whole of the official record" in this (JFK/Tippit) case is a pretty substantial "whole". It's not just one or two items. There's a bunch of stuff that would need to be faked by the conspirators and/or cover-up agents. And to believe that "whole" is a fraudulent "whole" is just plain silly. Edited November 9, 2015 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) David, [...] So the problem still stands that a Carcano rifle wasn't paid for with this money order. Nor was anything else. But, Sandy, you'll readily admit (I assume) that the method of punching holes in a deposited money order IS, in fact, a legitimate and valid method utilized by banking institutions to process a document like a U.S. Postal Money Order (in lieu of physically stamping each item with an inked rubber stamp), correct? However, you now want to move the goal posts again and play "keypunch expert" to try and still cast some doubt over the legitimacy of Oswald's postal money order. Right? In summary.... It's fairly clear from some recent Internet posts I've linked to above that the holes that are visible in Lee Oswald's money order (CE788) provide a strong indication that that money order WAS cashed and WAS processed somewhere after Klein's Sporting Goods deposited it into their First National Bank of Chicago account on March 13, 1963. Conspiracy hobbyists can now only look at the holes and complain that they don't line up right, or aren't in the correct sequence, or whatever, in order to still cling to their treasured belief that the money order was faked from the ground up in an effort to frame Lee Harvey Oswald. Again I'll ask --- How much of this "Fakery" crap is a reasonable and sensible person supposed to swallow whole? Edited November 9, 2015 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Obviously, in 1963 and thenabouts, money orders had their issue numbers both printed and punched on them before they were issued to post offices. My guess is that the Hidell money order is real, was stamped on the front at a post office, but was either filled out by an impostor or Oswald was told to fill it out under false pretenses. It obviously was never cashed. Even if banks did use punch holes for endorsements at the time, so what? The Hidell money order has no such holes punched. Ive looked at several canceled checks from that era and they all have multiple endorsement and other stamps on them. Some of the checks also have holes punched in them. The ones with holes were all issued by the U.S. Government. So the U.S. Government apparently used punch codes for internal bookkeeping purposes. I wouldn't be surprised if other large institutions used such codes as well. Edited November 10, 2015 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 ... do you really think Klein's would have shipped a $21-dollar rifle to somebody (Oswald/Hidell or anybody else on the planet) without having first been PAID for the item? No, I don't. If the TSBD Carcano was bought from Klein's, somebody paid for it. But not with the Hidell money order. They definitely shipped to PO Box 2915 in Dallas on 3/20/63? Well if they did, it wasn't paid for with the Hidell money order. The evidence proves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) ... do you really think Klein's would have shipped a $21-dollar rifle to somebody (Oswald/Hidell or anybody else on the planet) without having first been PAID for the item? No, I don't. If the TSBD Carcano was bought from Klein's, somebody paid for it. But not with the Hidell money order. They definitely shipped to PO Box 2915 in Dallas on 3/20/63? Well if they did, it wasn't paid for with the Hidell money order. The evidence proves it. The "evidence" actually proves just the opposite (of course). Waldman 7 indicates the Hidell rifle order was paid via "M.O." [Money Order]. The CE788 money order was stamped with a Klein's stamp on the back. (Is that fake too?) And Waldman 7 proves that Klein's did ship Rifle C2766 to Hidell/Oswald on March 20. So even if I were to accept the crazy notion that the money order was never cashed (which I do not accept, of course, with that M.O. being retrieved by the Secret Service in Alexandria, Virginia, on 11/23/63), we still KNOW that Rifle C2766 was sent by Klein's to Hidell/Oswald, regardless of what was done with that M.O. AFTER Klein's deposited it. And how did the money order get to the Federal Records Center in Alexandria, Virginia, if it wasn't cashed and then processed by SOMEBODY? Did a "Hidell" money order suddenly just fall from the sky and into the Records Center building in Alexandria? ------> MaryFerrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=118 Edited November 10, 2015 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Even if banks did use punch holes for endorsements at the time, so what? The Hidell money order has no such holes punched. And after receiving your Masters Degree in "Keypunch Hole Evaluation" just a few hours ago after your one-day crash course at Keypunch School, you actually feel confident enough to make the statement you just made about the Hidell money order having "no such holes punched" in it? Amazing. Edited November 10, 2015 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David G. Healy Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Even if banks did use punch holes for endorsements at the time, so what? The Hidell money order has no such holes punched. And after receiving your Masters Degree in "Keypunch Hole Evaluation" just a few hours ago after your one-day crash course at Keypunch School, you actually feel confident enough to make the statement you just made about the Hidell money order having "no such holes punched" in it? Amazing. you been hittin' that Colonel S's deep fat frying oil again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Even if banks did use punch holes for endorsements at the time, so what? The Hidell money order has no such holes punched. And after receiving your Masters Degree in "Keypunch Hole Evaluation" just a few hours ago after your one-day crash course at Keypunch School, you actually feel confident enough to make the statement you just made about the Hidell money order having "no such holes punched" in it? Amazing. Thank you, David. Take a look at the following page, where I explain the holes in more detail: Rectangular and round punch codes on the Hidell money order explained.http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22434 All the holes are explained. There are no holes left for punched bank stamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 You might think it somewhat sadistic of me but, I dearly love watching DVP getting his butt handed to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Wow! This thread sure went quiet kind of all of a sudden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 You might think it somewhat sadistic of me but, I dearly love watching DVP getting his butt handed to him. I noticed that, Ba Ba. (Bobby) --Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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