Silencers, Sniper RIfles and the CIA

[James DiEugenio]

In addition to being an authority on the Paines, Carol Hewett was also quite good with weapons and ballistics. She also knew a lot about two of the finest gunsmiths the CIA worked with , Mitch Werbell and George Nonte.

This article has become a classic since we published it in Probe decades ago.

http://www.ctka.net/FromTheArchive.html

[Robert Prudhomme]

Do you know if there is something wrong with the Deep Politics Forum, Jim? When I try to go there, it just shows a Database Error.

[James DiEugenio]

Yes I get the same reaction.

[Tom Neal]

Jim,

Thanks for posting this. I had read it way back when, but I'd forgotten about this theory that some shooters may have used silencers which would allow for more shots.

Also, I sent you a PM. When you have a chance, I'd appreciate it if you can give it a read...

Thanks!

Tom

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks Tom.

BTW, the figure four in Carol's essay is worth the read. It shows just how professional these guys were about assassinations.

Way beyond what the public or MSM had any idea about. Not sure, but I think that drawing was by Werbell.

Will look at your PM.

[Brad Milch]

@James DiEugenio:

James, just after reading the sniper weapons article at CTKA, I ran across some police dash cam video of last year's Waco biker shooting (massacre?) that has been troubling me deeply. The video shows several bikers being struck by bullets that their autopsies identified as primarily in the head or trunks. One victim in particular (Jacob Lee Rhyne, age 39) was shot only once in the neck. One can see him aiming a pistol at other bikers when he suddenly moves both his hands towards his neck & instantly drops to the ground dead, like a rock. I instantly thought about JFK after watching this scene several times the past few days.

Do you think JFK might have been killed by the shot that hit him in the neck too (direct hit or passing thru from a back entrance, depending on your interpretation of the wound)? I recall Nellie Connally stating in interviews that when she turned to look at JFK after hearing the first shot, JFK looked 'dead' to her. I believe that's in her book too. If that's possible in this case (as the Waco dash cam video demonstrates), it indicates the Zapruder film interpretations need to be re-thought.

I must admit, I didn't know a person could be killed from a neck bullet wound injury.

Here's the link to the video in YouTube for any of your interested readers to refer to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WncSEUxGzNo

The Waco 'biker massacre' controversy over the released police & restaurant security videos that captured the shooting has been going on for just about a year now & still no one's gone to trial over the 9 deaths that resulted from the shootout. Like the Zapruder film, the videos are ambiguous. Different folks have different interpretations of what they are seeing. Some are blaming genuine bikers for all the shooting, some are blaming undercover police disguised as genuine bikers, some blaming police rooftop snipers & others blaming police on foot at the scene equipped with M-16's.

After expanding the video to 'full screen', at 1:20 into the video, look beneath the word 'Open' on the banner & you'll see Mr. Rhyne point a chrome pistol at someone, take a shot & is about to take another shot when he is shot in the neck & falls straight to the ground, dead. Other videos depict Mr. Rhyne having shot a biker lying on the ground near the side entrance sidewalk in his head & killing him a few seconds prior to becoming a victim himself.

I suspect Bob Prudhomme will especially find this of interest in conjunction with the CTKA sniper weapons article. I'll point out video times to where other victims seen in the video are shot if any of your readers indicate they need help locating those scenes.

Best wishes to you, always, Distinguished Sir!

Brad Milch

Edited April 20, 2016 by Brad Milch

[Robert Prudhomme]

@James DiEugenio:

James, just after reading the sniper weapons article at CTKA, I ran across some police dash cam video of last year's Waco biker shooting (massacre?) that has been troubling me deeply. The video shows several bikers being struck by bullets that their autopsies identified as primarily in the head or trunks. One victim in particular (Jacob Lee Rhyne, age 39) was shot only once in the neck. One can see him aiming a pistol at other bikers when he suddenly moves both his hands towards his neck & instantly drops to the ground dead, like a rock. I instantly thought about JFK after watching this scene several times the past few days.

Do you think JFK might have been killed by the shot that hit him in the neck too (direct hit or passing thru from a back entrance, depending on your interpretation of the wound)? I recall Nellie Connally stating in interviews that when she turned to look at JFK after hearing the first shot, JFK looked 'dead' to her. I believe that's in her book too. If that's possible in this case (as the Waco dash cam video demonstrates), it indicates the Zapruder film interpretations need to be re-thought.

I must admit, I didn't know a person could be killed from a neck bullet wound injury.

Here's the link to the video in YouTube for any of your interested readers to refer to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WncSEUxGzNo

The Waco 'biker massacre' controversy over the released police & restaurant security videos that captured the shooting has been going on for just about a year now & still no one's gone to trial over the 9 deaths that resulted from the shootout. Like the Zapruder film, the videos are ambiguous. Different folks have different interpretations of what they are seeing. Some are blaming genuine bikers for all the shooting, some are blaming undercover police disguised as genuine bikers, some blaming police rooftop snipers & others blaming police on foot at the scene equipped with M-16's.

After expanding the video to 'full screen', at 1:20 into the video, look beneath the word 'Open' on the banner & you'll see Mr. Rhyne point a chrome pistol at someone, take a shot & is about to take another shot when he is shot in the neck & falls straight to the ground, dead. Other videos depict Mr. Rhyne having shot a biker lying on the ground near the side entrance sidewalk in his head & killing him a few seconds prior to becoming a victim himself.

I suspect Bob Prudhomme will especially find this of interest in conjunction with the CTKA sniper weapons article. I'll point out video times to where other victims seen in the video are shot if any of your readers indicate they need help locating those scenes.

Best wishes to you, always, Distinguished Sir!

Brad Milch

Hi Brad

I think you know me just a little too well. You just know I can't stay away from a discussion about firearms.

A pistol shot to the back of the neck, in the vicinity of the nape, was the standard form of execution practiced by the SS on multitudes of Jews in WW II. The bullet would sever the spinal cord in the upper part of the neck, instantly shutting down involuntary organs and bringing about almost instantaneous death.

[Brad Milch]

Howdy, Bob! Great to hear from you, distinguished Sir! [You & James should start a DS club ]

What you described almost sounds like a hanging (accomplished with a noose) from a firearm, does it not?

These are graphic, real videos of genuine headshots that people suffered within the past 3 years in the Middle East:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP5z3WsLIeQ&nohtml5=False

(shot occurs 9 seconds into the video) YouTube has a better quality video that I'm still looking for; in that version the bullet can be seen exiting the poor guy's head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PObOOjzSjt8&nohtml5=False

(shot occurs 40 seconds into the video)

These will help some of James' readers visualize just how horrific sniper weapons are when used against people.

Best always to you, Robert!

Brad Milch

PS: My interest in firearms can be traced back to an early 1960's episode of the Beverly Hillbillies where Jed & Jethro were having a contest shooting flies off something out on the lawn of their mansion, a good distance away from them both. Granny & Ellie Mae weren't slouches either when it came to marksmanship (((((smiles)))))

[Tom Neal]

BTW, the figure four in Carol's essay is worth the read.

Absolutely. It's impossible to be totally silent, so the next best thing is to reduce the chances of the minimized sound revealing your location.

An excellent article, for sure!

Tom

[Robert Prudhomme]

Something seems to be dreadfully wrong at the Deep Politics Forum. Jim started this same topic there a few days ago, and attracted some good comments but, every time I try to go there now I get only a Database Error page.

As Tom pointed out in Carol Hewett's article, the purpose of fitting a suppressor to a rifle firing supersonic bullets (+1126 fps, approx.) is mainly to conceal the location of the shooter, as the only sound heard by bystanders is the crack of the bullet as it breaks the sound barrier. Also, as the volume of this "crack" is nowhere near as great as an unsuppressed muzzle blast, the area of influence from the supersonic "crack" is nowhere as great either. This includes the areas beside the path of the bullet, as well as behind the shooter and down range of where the bullet impacts and ends its journey.

Therefore, if the bullet that struck JFK's back at or near z224 was from a suppressed rifle, there is a good chance people closer to the TUP, such as James Altgens, never heard this shot. This would go a long ways in explaining his testimony to the WC, wherein he testified the first shot he heard was at the precise moment he snapped the Altgens 6 photo, at about z255.

Many people may have heard three shots but, which three shots did they hear?

Just as a point of interest, there is actually a way to completely silence a shot from a supersonic rifle, to the point those around the victim are unaware he has even been shot, but it takes a great deal of skill, and I doubt this is what happened to JFK.

If a shooter knows the muzzle velocity of his suppressed rifle, it is easy to calculate at how many hundred yards this bullet will slow to the point it is travelling at subsonic speeds, and no longer breaking the sound barrier. With this knowledge, one merely places himself at this range, and the bullet is completely silent when it reaches the target. However, since even a slower bullet, such as the 6.5mm Carcano, leaves the muzzle of an M91/38 at 2165 fps, and is still travelling at 2000 fps 88 yards down range, it is possible to see it is necessary for this bullet to travel, likely, at least 500 yards before passing into the subsonic range.

Quite a shot, and not one many could do at a moving target.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Chris Davidson]

Robert,

Can you tell me if this would be a close enough apples to apples" comparison?

Added on edit: Request withdrawn. Will deal with this in the "Swan Song" topic.

chris

Edited April 22, 2016 by Chris Davidson

[Michael Walton]

I emailed the DPF and it's now back up.

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks Michael.

BTW, the great thing about that diagram is that according to Werbell, the only area where you can get accurate hearing from the suppressor, is behind the sniper.

If you are a sniper behind the picket fence where it juts out, I mean who else was there?

Which means, almost no one got an accurate reading.

Edited April 24, 2016 by James DiEugenio