Jump to content


Spartacus

Jack White: "The Roscoe White curse"


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Denis Morissette

Denis Morissette

    Experienced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

Posted 02 January 2005 - 09:01 PM

Jack, I would like to have comments from you on a post you made in 1996 on a.c.j. Do you believe that all those deaths were just coincidential or planned? What you have experienced as well is painful to me just reading it!

[[ posted on alt.conspiracy.jfk on 10/08/96 by:
jackwhite ]]
=====================================================

------------------------- The Roscoe White Curse? -----------------------

About 6 years ago I was at the old JFK-AIC in the Dallas West End when the
Roscoe White News Conference was held.

At the **head table** in the front of the assembly space, in addition to
Ricky White and Roscoe*s minister, were 5 prominent JFK researchers. All were
comparatively young or middle-aged and vigorous, and each presented some
aspect of the Roscoe White story. These researchers were...

BERNARD **BUD** FENSTERWALD
GARY SHAW
LARRY HOWARD
JOE WEST
LARRY RAY HARRIS

Now, about 6 years later 4 of the 5 are dead, despite their relative youth
and vigor. Coincidence? Or curse? Given their ages and good health, it would
be interesting to see actuarial statistics on this, in the manner of the
famed **mysterious deaths** study.

FENSTERWALD, who founded/funded the Washington Assassination Information
Bureau and supported the AIC, became ill while dining in Dallas. He cancelled
appointments and flew back to Washington, where he died of a sudden **heart
attack**.

WEST, the Houston private investigator who later discovered the James Files
story, was just fine when I talked with him on the phone on a Friday. Almost
incidentally, he told me that at a recent health check-up, his doctor
recommended heart by-pass surgery for the following Monday; he said he would
call me after the surgery. The heart surgery was a success...but his
breathing never resumed. He was kept alive for a while by a lung machine, but
died without ever regaining consciousness.

HOWARD, the ardent JFK buff who (with Gary Shaw) co-founded the Dallas JFK
Information Center, had been doing further Roscoe White research in West
Texas, along with a **former FBI agent**. While driving late at night, Larry
suffered a **stroke**. When he died, the JFK-AIC died with him.

HARRIS, the young reseach expert on the Tippit killing, has now died in a
recent auto accident (one-car?) for which we have few details as of now.

SHAW, the other co-director of the AIC, is the SOLE SURVIVOR of this group.
We hope that Gary is very very careful in the future, whether these deaths
are curse, conspiracy, or coincidence.

GENEVA WHITE DEES, Roscoe*s widow, also died during this period.

Less than a year after attending this news conference, I was attacked in my
bedroom at 5 a.m. on Sunday by a nude intruder, who (unprovoked) stabbed me
in the chest with an ice pick 12 times and hit me in the head, fracturing my
skull and destroying my hearing (right ear) and balance (permanent vertigo).
At the time I was serving as a (unpaid) photo consultant to Oliver Stone in
the production of JFK. I was in the hospital for 22 days with the skull
fracture and collapsed lung, for four days near death. Coincidence?
Conspiracy? Or Roscoe White curse?

#2 Jack White

Jack White

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,640 posts

Posted 02 January 2005 - 09:44 PM

Jack, I would like to have comments from you on a post you made in 1996 on a.c.j. Do you believe that all those deaths were just coincidential or planned? What you have experienced as well is painful to me just reading it!

[[ posted on alt.conspiracy.jfk on 10/08/96 by:
                  jackwhite  ]]
=====================================================

------------------------- The Roscoe White Curse?  -----------------------

About 6 years ago I was at the old JFK-AIC in the Dallas West End when the
Roscoe White News Conference was held.

At the **head table** in the front of the assembly space, in addition to
Ricky White and Roscoe*s minister, were 5 prominent JFK researchers. All were
comparatively young or middle-aged and vigorous, and each presented some
aspect of the Roscoe White story. These researchers were...

BERNARD **BUD** FENSTERWALD
GARY SHAW
LARRY HOWARD
JOE WEST
LARRY RAY HARRIS

Now, about 6 years later 4 of the 5 are dead, despite their relative youth
and vigor. Coincidence? Or curse? Given their ages and good health, it would
be interesting to see actuarial statistics on this, in the manner of the
famed **mysterious deaths** study.

FENSTERWALD, who founded/funded the Washington Assassination Information
Bureau and supported the AIC, became ill while dining in Dallas. He cancelled
appointments and flew back to Washington, where he died of a sudden **heart
attack**.

WEST, the Houston private investigator who later discovered the James Files
story, was just fine when I talked with him on the phone on a Friday. Almost
incidentally, he told me that at a recent health check-up, his doctor
recommended heart by-pass surgery for the following Monday; he said he would
call me after the surgery. The heart surgery was a success...but his
breathing never resumed. He was kept alive for a while by a lung machine, but
died without ever regaining consciousness.

HOWARD, the ardent JFK buff who (with Gary Shaw) co-founded the Dallas JFK
Information Center, had been doing further Roscoe White research in West
Texas, along with a **former FBI agent**. While driving late at night, Larry
suffered a **stroke**. When he died, the JFK-AIC died with him.

HARRIS, the young reseach expert on the Tippit killing, has now died in a
recent auto accident (one-car?) for which we have few details as of now.

SHAW, the other co-director of the AIC, is the SOLE SURVIVOR of this group.
We hope that Gary is very very careful in the future, whether these deaths
are curse, conspiracy, or coincidence.

GENEVA WHITE DEES, Roscoe*s widow, also died during this period.

Less than a year after attending this news conference, I was attacked in my
bedroom at 5 a.m. on Sunday by a nude intruder, who (unprovoked) stabbed me
in the chest with an ice pick 12 times and hit me in the head, fracturing my
skull and destroying my hearing (right ear) and balance (permanent vertigo).
At the time I was serving as a (unpaid) photo consultant to Oliver Stone in
the production of JFK. I was in the hospital for 22 days with the skull
fracture and collapsed lung, for four days near death. Coincidence?
Conspiracy? Or Roscoe White curse?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Denis, I prefer to think that these incidents were all a remarkable
coincidence. I really do not know.

Incidentally, two weeks ago, I had to undergo ear surgery for
the damage done 13 years ago. A five-inch incision was made
in my scalp behind the ear so the surgeon could get to a serious
infection inside the ear.

Thanks for remembering.

Jack

#3 Antti Hynonen

Antti Hynonen

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 955 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Helsinki, Finland
  • Interests:JFK assassination debate

Posted 03 January 2005 - 09:47 AM

Jack White Posted Yesterday, 08:44 PM
  QUOTE(Denis Morissette @ Jan 2 2005, 08:01 PM)
Jack, I would like to have comments from you on a post you made in 1996 on a.c.j. Do you believe that all those deaths were just coincidential or planned? What you have experienced as well is painful to me just reading it!

[[ posted on alt.conspiracy.jfk on 10/08/96 by:
                  jackwhite  ]]
=====================================================

------------------------- The Roscoe White Curse?  -----------------------

About 6 years ago I was at the old JFK-AIC in the Dallas West End when the
Roscoe White News Conference was held.

At the **head table** in the front of the assembly space, in addition to
Ricky White and Roscoe*s minister, were 5 prominent JFK researchers. All were
comparatively young or middle-aged and vigorous, and each presented some
aspect of the Roscoe White story. These researchers were...

BERNARD **BUD** FENSTERWALD
GARY SHAW
LARRY HOWARD
JOE WEST
LARRY RAY HARRIS

Now, about 6 years later 4 of the 5 are dead, despite their relative youth
and vigor. Coincidence? Or curse? Given their ages and good health, it would
be interesting to see actuarial statistics on this, in the manner of the
famed **mysterious deaths** study.

FENSTERWALD, who founded/funded the Washington Assassination Information
Bureau and supported the AIC, became ill while dining in Dallas. He cancelled
appointments and flew back to Washington, where he died of a sudden **heart
attack**.

WEST, the Houston private investigator who later discovered the James Files
story, was just fine when I talked with him on the phone on a Friday. Almost
incidentally, he told me that at a recent health check-up, his doctor
recommended heart by-pass surgery for the following Monday; he said he would
call me after the surgery. The heart surgery was a success...but his
breathing never resumed. He was kept alive for a while by a lung machine, but
died without ever regaining consciousness.

HOWARD, the ardent JFK buff who (with Gary Shaw) co-founded the Dallas JFK
Information Center, had been doing further Roscoe White research in West
Texas, along with a **former FBI agent**. While driving late at night, Larry
suffered a **stroke**. When he died, the JFK-AIC died with him.

HARRIS, the young reseach expert on the Tippit killing, has now died in a
recent auto accident (one-car?) for which we have few details as of now.

SHAW, the other co-director of the AIC, is the SOLE SURVIVOR of this group.
We hope that Gary is very very careful in the future, whether these deaths
are curse, conspiracy, or coincidence.

GENEVA WHITE DEES, Roscoe*s widow, also died during this period.

Less than a year after attending this news conference, I was attacked in my
bedroom at 5 a.m. on Sunday by a nude intruder, who (unprovoked) stabbed me
in the chest with an ice pick 12 times and hit me in the head, fracturing my
skull and destroying my hearing (right ear) and balance (permanent vertigo).
At the time I was serving as a (unpaid) photo consultant to Oliver Stone in
the production of JFK. I was in the hospital for 22 days with the skull
fracture and collapsed lung, for four days near death. Coincidence?
Conspiracy? Or Roscoe White curse?






Denis, I prefer to think that these incidents were all a remarkable
coincidence. I really do not know.

Incidentally, two weeks ago, I had to undergo ear surgery for
the damage done 13 years ago. A five-inch incision was made
in my scalp behind the ear so the surgeon could get to a serious
infection inside the ear.

Thanks for remembering.

Jack


Jack:
Was your assailant ever caught? Who was (S)he?

#4 Dawn Meredith

Dawn Meredith

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,496 posts
  • Location:Austin, Tx.
  • Interests:political justice, conspiracy/truth, music, law, Bible prophecy

Posted 03 January 2005 - 10:29 AM

I know that Larry Howard's, (Darryl), wife thinks he was murdered. She told me herself in Dallas in 1997 at a COPA conference.

Bud Fensterwald was not Assassination Information Bureau, they were a Cambridge MA group who relocated to DC during HSCA. (But were likely affiliated). I was told that the "White story killed Bud". For whatever that's worth.

Dawn

#5 Jack White

Jack White

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,640 posts

Posted 03 January 2005 - 01:59 PM

Jack White Posted Yesterday, 08:44 PM
  QUOTE(Denis Morissette @ Jan 2 2005, 08:01 PM)
Jack, I would like to have comments from you on a post you made in 1996 on a.c.j. Do you believe that all those deaths were just coincidential or planned? What you have experienced as well is painful to me just reading it!

[[ posted on alt.conspiracy.jfk on 10/08/96 by:
                  jackwhite  ]]
=====================================================

------------------------- The Roscoe White Curse?  -----------------------

About 6 years ago I was at the old JFK-AIC in the Dallas West End when the
Roscoe White News Conference was held.

At the **head table** in the front of the assembly space, in addition to
Ricky White and Roscoe*s minister, were 5 prominent JFK researchers. All were
comparatively young or middle-aged and vigorous, and each presented some
aspect of the Roscoe White story. These researchers were...

BERNARD **BUD** FENSTERWALD
GARY SHAW
LARRY HOWARD
JOE WEST
LARRY RAY HARRIS

Now, about 6 years later 4 of the 5 are dead, despite their relative youth
and vigor. Coincidence? Or curse? Given their ages and good health, it would
be interesting to see actuarial statistics on this, in the manner of the
famed **mysterious deaths** study.

FENSTERWALD, who founded/funded the Washington Assassination Information
Bureau and supported the AIC, became ill while dining in Dallas. He cancelled
appointments and flew back to Washington, where he died of a sudden **heart
attack**.

WEST, the Houston private investigator who later discovered the James Files
story, was just fine when I talked with him on the phone on a Friday. Almost
incidentally, he told me that at a recent health check-up, his doctor
recommended heart by-pass surgery for the following Monday; he said he would
call me after the surgery. The heart surgery was a success...but his
breathing never resumed. He was kept alive for a while by a lung machine, but
died without ever regaining consciousness.

HOWARD, the ardent JFK buff who (with Gary Shaw) co-founded the Dallas JFK
Information Center, had been doing further Roscoe White research in West
Texas, along with a **former FBI agent**. While driving late at night, Larry
suffered a **stroke**. When he died, the JFK-AIC died with him.

HARRIS, the young reseach expert on the Tippit killing, has now died in a
recent auto accident (one-car?) for which we have few details as of now.

SHAW, the other co-director of the AIC, is the SOLE SURVIVOR of this group.
We hope that Gary is very very careful in the future, whether these deaths
are curse, conspiracy, or coincidence.

GENEVA WHITE DEES, Roscoe*s widow, also died during this period.

Less than a year after attending this news conference, I was attacked in my
bedroom at 5 a.m. on Sunday by a nude intruder, who (unprovoked) stabbed me
in the chest with an ice pick 12 times and hit me in the head, fracturing my
skull and destroying my hearing (right ear) and balance (permanent vertigo).
At the time I was serving as a (unpaid) photo consultant to Oliver Stone in
the production of JFK. I was in the hospital for 22 days with the skull
fracture and collapsed lung, for four days near death. Coincidence?
Conspiracy? Or Roscoe White curse?






Denis, I prefer to think that these incidents were all a remarkable
coincidence. I really do not know.

Incidentally, two weeks ago, I had to undergo ear surgery for
the damage done 13 years ago. A five-inch incision was made
in my scalp behind the ear so the surgeon could get to a serious
infection inside the ear.

Thanks for remembering.

Jack


Jack:
Was your assailant ever caught? Who was (S)he?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Antti...the nude assailant was never caught, but 13 years later I could
identify him if I ever see him again. He was about 30, 5'7" tall, weight
about 150, very muscular and well proportioned (like a weight lifter),
had a round face, short and neat sandy curly hair, no facial hair, clean shaven,
and appeared to be left-handed (or had an injured right hand) as during the
attack he stabbed me and struck me only with his left hand.

Jack :blink:

#6 Denis Morissette

Denis Morissette

    Experienced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

Posted 03 January 2005 - 11:04 PM

In one of his books, Robert Livingston was mentionning that several researchers' houses have been set in fire. Do you know of any examples, Jack? An example I know of: researcher Gary Murr who lost a lot of invaluable documents after the appartment building he lived in was ravaged by fire.

It must be awful how one must feel after being assaulted like Jack. I can't believe it. Talk about it to witness Warren Reynolds and so many others. Jack is showing a lot of courage by keeping discussing the JFK assassination openly. Jack is a real survivor, those "survivors" on TV are not.

Edited by Denis Morissette, 03 January 2005 - 11:08 PM.


#7 Greg Wagner

Greg Wagner

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 274 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 January 2005 - 11:35 PM

Wow Jack- that is scary. I too applaud your courage. Not that you were in any position to have a conversation, but did the guy say anything to give an idea of why he was attacking you?

It certainly would be interesting, as Denis mentioned above, to catalog instances of intimidation (or worse) against investigators, researchers, and authors who have pursued this subject. In light of all the dead witnesses and those seeming to have knowledge of the events surrounding 11/22, I guess it's not shocking that researchers who gain some level of exposure, those who possess real evidence, or those who are asking the right questions of the right people, are targeted. It makes you wonder about who might be watching/listening.

Being relatively new to all of this and not having done any primary reseach of my own, I guess I never really considered it, but I suppose that's a consideration one must take into accout before knocking on Gordon Novel's or Orlando Bosch's door and asking questions. If theories about those men have merit, such research could be very dangerous.

#8 Denis Morissette

Denis Morissette

    Experienced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

Posted 04 January 2005 - 01:02 AM

When I showed interest in locating Jim Braden -the guy arrested in Dealy Plaza and also living at a hotel 20 minutes from the hotel where RFK was killed- I was warned that I am entering the "Big Leagues", meaning that I should do it at my own risk.

Edited by Denis Morissette, 04 January 2005 - 01:03 AM.


#9 Greg Wagner

Greg Wagner

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 274 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 January 2005 - 01:54 AM

It's amazing that over 40 years later, the situation is still being "managed" so well (from the conspirators' standpoint). In my humble opinion, that is evidence of the cover-up being managed at the highest levels of today's federal government. While the anti-Castro Cubans and Mafia may have been operational assets used in the execution of the plot, I don't believe those groups have the capabilitiy to operate such a successful cover-up for this length of time. I also find it difficult to believe that any of these groups groups could control the media to the extent that they have.

It's ironic that the sheer success of their cover-up is one of the things that so clearly implicates them. High officials in the Government (CIA, Pentagon, officials in the Executive Branch, etc.) are the only ones that could pull this off so successfully.

While it's conceivable that the assassination itself could have been executed without them, the lack of Secret Service protection in DP that day is very suggestive that elements of the Government also coordinated the assassination itself.

And for me that's the truely frightening part. If the Government is behind all this, there nowhere to hide once you become a threat (discover evidence, contact someone with knowledge and start asking questions, etc.).

No matter what you think of Oliver Stone's work, he struck a serious blow to the conspirators with "JFK", as that film initiated countless debates on the subject, brought the assassination and cover-up back into the mainstream of American society, and perhaps helped to interest a new generation of younger Americans in these events. I wonder if he was "discouraged" or intimidated in the months leading up to his movie being released.

BTW, did you continue your pursuit of Braden? Not sure that I would have been that brave (perhaps in my younger days I would have).

#10 Denis Morissette

Denis Morissette

    Experienced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

Posted 04 January 2005 - 03:20 AM

BTW, did you continue your pursuit of Braden? Not sure that I would have been that brave (perhaps in my younger days I would have).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


What prompted me to try to locate Braden is a 1980 document in which is included his address, and in which Braden threatened to sue The Globe in criminal court. I don't remember if I ever sent a letter to him.

http://www.geocities...0073-10226.html

#11 Tim Gratz

Tim Gratz

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6,939 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 January 2005 - 07:49 AM

When I showed interest in locating Jim Braden -the guy arrested in Dealy Plaza and also living at a hotel 20 minutes from the hotel where RFK was killed- I was warned that I am entering the "Big Leagues", meaning that I should do it at my own risk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>




Who rendered this warning to you?

#12 John Simkin

John Simkin

    Super Member

  • admin
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 16,104 posts

Posted 04 January 2005 - 10:29 AM

This is a very important subject and probably deserves its own thread. I am therefore posting this message in two places. The reason being is these threats might well provide clues about the assassination and the cover-up.

I have only been working on this case in a serious way for the past 12 months. I have received several emails that could be described as threats. Sometimes these come from people who I have written about. The most worrying comes from a former member of Interpen. He never writes to me directly. Instead he sends copies of emails he is sending to a friend. In these emails he writes about what I am up to and implies that he is going to do something about it.

I have also had several emails from fellow researchers warning me about tackling certain subjects. They relate problems that they experienced when researching the case. Some have been willing to provide me with information they have discovered. However, others pass on these threats without revealing what they have found out. I suppose it is possible that they are warning me off because they don’t want me finding out what they have found. In other ways, they hope to publish the book that finally solves the case.

I have also made contact with some interesting witnesses that have told me some important information. However, in several cases, they have broke off contact without explanation. I fear they are being threatened. In two of the cases this happened at the same time as I received a “warning” to leave a certain topic alone.

These “warnings” have given me the impression that I have been on the right track and has had the reverse effect on what my correspondent wanted. It might interest you to know the areas that people don’t want me writing about: Interpen, the events surrounding the Bobby Baker scandal, Grant Stockdale and Clint Murchison.

#13 Denis Morissette

Denis Morissette

    Experienced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

Posted 04 January 2005 - 02:53 PM

When I showed interest in locating Jim Braden -the guy arrested in Dealy Plaza and also living at a hotel 20 minutes from the hotel where RFK was killed- I was warned that I am entering the "Big Leagues", meaning that I should do it at my own risk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>




Who rendered this warning to you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Someone I consider as a friend, researcher Bill Kelly who is a writer. So that was a "friendly" warning. :ph34r:

Edited by Denis Morissette, 04 January 2005 - 02:53 PM.


#14 Robert Howard

Robert Howard

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,678 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 March 2006 - 01:41 PM

Does anyone have anything along the lines of an update to information contained on this thread. I have studied the Roscoe/Rickey White story at considerable length, and after several years have come to the conclusion, that while Ricky's story certainly appear contrived, there are 'elements to the story, that are very intriguing' has anyone ever considered that the Texas businessmen who ostensibly were 'financing the deal' may have had a larger goal of 'a black bag job of sorts', to discredit the Roscoe White story from the very beginning?

The knee-jerk reaction to my comment would be 'Ricky White's story was so implausable from the beginning he didn't need anyone's 'help' to discredit it, but maybe that is what someone wanted you to think from the beginning, Geneva died practically 'chain smoking through a respirator' and to the best of my knowledge a mega dollar deal for the White family never materialized. Roscoe White did indeed work for the DPD in the time frame alleged, ostensibly involved in photography for the DPD, Geneva was indeed someone who worked as a dancer for Ruby wasn't she? To say the whole issue was a non-event would be to over-react in the opposite direction. The Oswald photograph in their possession is at least 'hard to dismiss,' is it not?

Edited by Robert Howard, 12 March 2006 - 01:54 PM.


#15 Duke Lane

Duke Lane

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,583 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Universally loved and admired for his keen wit, sharp intellect, loathsome egoism, and awe-inspiring self-delusion, Lane studies the JFK assassination from afar, offers few opinions, and generally keeps to himself.

Posted 12 March 2006 - 04:28 PM

Incidentally, two weeks ago, I had to undergo ear surgery for the damage done 13 years ago. A five-inch incision was made in my scalp behind the ear so the surgeon could get to a serious infection inside the ear.

Has anyone checked for implants? This could rate right up there with the mysterious "listening devices" around Dealey Plaza, and the more recent attempt by the City of Dallas to expose Plaza-ites to a deadly nerve toxin, the nefarious purposes of which remain hidden.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users