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Performance expectation of a mercury filled bullet


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#1 Al Carrier

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Posted 05 February 2005 - 09:19 AM

On the Lancer Forum, I saw where John Ritchson reported on the performance of mercury filled bullet. I have quoted him below:

The Terminal Ballistic Effects of a Mercury loaded bullet is a terrible thing indeed.
You must understand that I can't go into any construction details without violating certain provisions of the Patriot Act with respect to providing information on a public forum that could be of possible use to those who are designated Terrorists by the Department of Homeland Security ie. I'm going to be treading a fine-line as it is.

Suffice to say that with an atomic number of 80 and an atomic weight of 200.59,
Mercury is pretty much on par with bullet lead which is usually alloyed with varying amounts of tin, and antimony, which lowers the mass of pure lead. Since mercury is liquid in its' natural state it posesses charactistics which render it truely devestating upon Terminal Impact with a live body. A semi-jacketed hollowpoint bullet so loaded will retain its initial mass and momentum. But, the mercury being liquid will escape the confines of the bullet during the mushrooming stage and expand so quickly as to in effect, expload, creating a hydrostatic shock zone of destruction far greater than the bullet alone. Such a projectile being properly made if shot into the torso will virtually liquify the internal organs and if impacting a human head it can quite literally expload that head. All of this of course occuring in milliseconds of time. The Mercury Load is the MAKE SURE bullet of the professional assassin and requires a good deal of skill in its manufacture_not something that can be whipped-up in a few minutes on a kitchen table. Such a bullet must be milled and loaded to tolerances far greater then can be decerned by the human eye. Otherwise, it will quickly become unstable in flight and all hope of downrange accuracy is lost, even at a range of 100" or so. In fact, an improperly constructed Mercury Load can and under the right conditions will cause a catastrophic instability inside of the weapon's barrel with an outcome that will definently be felt by the shooter. So folks, do not try this at home! Besides being illegal in many places it is damn dangerous to play around with.

With respect to the NAA Analysis conducted by Dr. Guinn on CE-399
and the recovered bullet fragments I find no mention of the presence of Mercury or Carbon the latter which would have been present on this bullet had it been fired through any organic artifact including a human head. Also, lead itself possess several isotopes allowing it to be physically connected to a particular area due to the distribution of these isotopes. The technology for making such determinations were in place well before 1963. I find the absence of such determinations in Dr. Guinn's Report disturbing to say the least.

As to the scope issue:
Once a scope is mounted and sighted in it cannot be physically manipulated in any way without resighting. even an incidental bump or knock is sufficient to cause it to lose its' line of sight. When the sic Experts at Edgewood Arsenal evaluated the alledged JFK killshot Carcano they found that LHO's aimpoint would have to have been some 14 inches off target.

Respectfully:


John Ritchson

What should be pointed out is that mercury is only preserved in a liquid state when controlled in a chamber and not released to surrounding air and temperature. When it is exposed, it becomes hardened and remains in the hardened state. The advantage of the mercury filled bullet is that the core of the lead or lead jacketed bullet is considerably harder and less resistant than the external mass of lead or lead and copper jacketing. The hardened mercury being in the general range of 59 Rockwell Cone and the lead being at roughly 38 Rockwell Cone in hardness.

The problem in designing a mercury filled bullet is to fill the hollowed cavity of the bullet with mecury without pockets as the mercury hardens almost immediately. The fuller the cavity with mercury composition, the greater the dispersement of the bullet.

What occurs upon impact is that the outer lead/lead with copper jacketing depresses against the much harder mercury core and the lead or jacketed lead is disrupted and fragments greatly during initial penetration. This is the exploding bullet. However, what most misunderstand, is that the explosive effect of the bullet is contained within a small cavity as the energy dispersion is compromised greatly due to the minute fragments being dispersed into a resistant cavity. In the case of a skull penetration, the brain would have considerable internal disruption, but it would have little or no effect on an exit wound, as the fragments of the bullet would lose their energy quickly due to their low weight.

I fully support John's issue with the misaligned scope.

Al


#2 Terry Mauro

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 10:47 PM

[quote name='Al Carrier' date='Feb 5 2005, 08:19 AM']On the Lancer Forum, I saw where John Ritchson reported on the performance of mercury filled bullet. I have quoted him below:

The Terminal Ballistic Effects of a Mercury loaded bullet is a terrible thing indeed.
You must understand that I can't go into any construction details without violating certain provisions of the Patriot Act with respect to providing information on a public forum that could be of possible use to those who are designated Terrorists by the Department of Homeland Security ie. I'm going to be treading a fine-line as it is.

Suffice to say that with an atomic number of 80 and an atomic weight of 200.59,
Mercury is pretty much on par with bullet lead which is usually alloyed with varying amounts of tin, and antimony, which lowers the mass of pure lead. Since mercury is liquid in its' natural state it posesses charactistics which render it truely devestating upon Terminal Impact with a live body. A semi-jacketed hollowpoint bullet so loaded will retain its initial mass and momentum. But, the mercury being liquid will escape the confines of the bullet during the mushrooming stage and expand so quickly as to in effect, expload, creating a hydrostatic shock zone of destruction far greater than the bullet alone. Such a projectile being properly made if shot into the torso will virtually liquify the internal organs and if impacting a human head it can quite literally expload that head. All of this of course occuring in milliseconds of time. The Mercury Load is the MAKE SURE bullet of the professional assassin and requires a good deal of skill in its manufacture_not something that can be whipped-up in a few minutes on a kitchen table. Such a bullet must be milled and loaded to tolerances far greater then can be decerned by the human eye. Otherwise, it will quickly become unstable in flight and all hope of downrange accuracy is lost, even at a range of 100" or so. In fact, an improperly constructed Mercury Load can and under the right conditions will cause a catastrophic instability inside of the weapon's barrel with an outcome that will definently be felt by the shooter. So folks, do not try this at home! Besides being illegal in many places it is damn dangerous to play around with.

With respect to the NAA Analysis conducted by Dr. Guinn on CE-399
and the recovered bullet fragments I find no mention of the presence of Mercury or Carbon the latter which would have been present on this bullet had it been fired through any organic artifact including a human head. Also, lead itself possess several isotopes allowing it to be physically connected to a particular area due to the distribution of these isotopes. The technology for making such determinations were in place well before 1963. I find the absence of such determinations in Dr. Guinn's Report disturbing to say the least.

As to the scope issue:
Once a scope is mounted and sighted in it cannot be physically manipulated in any way without resighting. even an incidental bump or knock is sufficient to cause it to lose its' line of sight. When the sic Experts at Edgewood Arsenal evaluated the alledged JFK killshot Carcano they found that LHO's aimpoint would have to have been some 14 inches off target.

Respectfully:


John Ritchson

What should be pointed out is that mercury is only preserved in a liquid state when controlled in a chamber and not released to surrounding air and temperature. When it is exposed, it becomes hardened and remains in the hardened state. The advantage of the mercury filled bullet is that the core of the lead or lead jacketed bullet is considerably harder and less resistant than the external mass of lead or lead and copper jacketing. The hardened mercury being in the general range of 59 Rockwell Cone and the lead being at roughly 38 Rockwell Cone in hardness. 

The problem in designing a mercury filled bullet is to fill the hollowed cavity of the bullet with mecury without pockets as the mercury hardens almost immediately. The fuller the cavity with mercury composition, the greater the dispersement of the bullet.

What occurs upon impact is that the outer lead/lead with copper jacketing depresses against the much harder mercury core and the lead or jacketed lead is disrupted and fragments greatly during initial penetration. This is the exploding bullet. However, what most misunderstand, is that the explosive effect of the bullet is contained within a small cavity as the energy dispersion is compromised greatly due to the minute fragments being dispersed into a resistant cavity. In the case of a skull penetration, the brain would have considerable internal disruption, but it would have little or no effect on an exit wound, as the fragments of the bullet would lose their energy quickly due to their low weight.

I fully support John's issue with the misaligned scope.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote]


[QUOTE]What occurs upon impact is that the outer lead/lead with copper jacketing depresses against the much harder mercury core and the lead or jacketed lead is disrupted and fragments greatly during initial penetration. This is the exploding bullet. However, what most misunderstand, is that the explosive effect of the bullet is contained within a small cavity as the energy dispersion is compromised greatly due to the minute fragments being dispersed into a resistant cavity. In the case of a skull penetration, the brain would have considerable internal disruption, but it would have little or no effect on an exit wound, as the fragments of the bullet would lose their energy quickly due to their low weight.[QUOTE]

Hi Al,
Is that pertaining to only mercury filled hollow points? If so, what would we expect the exit wound to look like, in comparison to what the exit wound from a regular hollow point looks like?
Thanks,
Ter

Edited by Terry Mauro, 06 February 2005 - 10:51 PM.


#3 Shanet Clark

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 01:04 AM

Great question, Terry!
What is the signature of a mercury load's exit ?
A grapefruit sized avulsion?
No Specific Pattern?
The mercury load theme was used in both the film EXECUTIVE ACTION
and THE DAY OF THE JACKAL, so there is quite a bit of speculation on this angle...
also, isn't this the kind of thing Mitch Werbell could have provided in 1963?
Or would it point to a joint agency lab?

Edited by Shanet Clark, 07 February 2005 - 01:05 AM.


#4 Al Carrier

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 07:23 AM

Great question, Terry!
What is the signature of a mercury load's exit ?
A grapefruit sized avulsion?
No Specific Pattern?
The mercury load theme was used in both the film EXECUTIVE ACTION
and THE DAY OF THE JACKAL, so there is quite a bit of speculation on this angle...
also, isn't this the kind of thing Mitch Werbell could have provided in 1963?
Or would it point to a joint agency lab?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Terry and Shanet,

Any compromised bullet, whether it be a jacketed soft point, hollow point or mercury or other foreign material filled bullet (in that order of comprimization and fragmentation) will release it's energy rather quickly into the cavity into which it was fired into. Its integrity will be compromised and fragmentation will occur and this fragmentation reduces the velocity and therefore the sustained velocity and consistent energy dispersion within the cavity. While a fragmenting bullet will do considerable internal damage within the cavity through eviceration of soft tissue and arteries, it does not sustain its trajectory and have consistent energy dispersion within the cavity that would result in a massive blowout at the point of exit. This is only achieved through a full metal jacketed bullet that has 1800fps or greater velocity to create an internal wound cavity that is depresses the internal fluids and material due to the energy dispersion. It retains enough velocity to carry this energy disruption out of the exit.

IMO with the headwound, we are looking at a FMJ bullet in the range of 2400fps or greater that initially penetrated shallow into the cavity. This is why we have the flap and the extensive exit wound and forced reaction rearward of the head.

Al

#5 Shanet Clark

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 04:12 PM

Very clear answer, Al.

So you see a FMJ with 2400 speed hitting Kennedy and leaving the Parkland exit wound?

Any chance of a simultaneous or near simultaneous second headshot?
This has been suggested to explain the physics of the ZFilm and is corollary to trangulation.

#6 Terry Mauro

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 05:28 PM

Great question, Terry!
What is the signature of a mercury load's exit ?
A grapefruit sized avulsion?
No Specific Pattern?
The mercury load theme was used in both the film EXECUTIVE ACTION
and THE DAY OF THE JACKAL, so there is quite a bit of speculation on this angle...
also, isn't this the kind of thing Mitch Werbell could have provided in 1963?
Or would it point to a joint agency lab?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Terry and Shanet,

Any compromised bullet, whether it be a jacketed soft point, hollow point or mercury or other foreign material filled bullet (in that order of comprimization and fragmentation) will release it's energy rather quickly into the cavity into which it was fired into. Its integrity will be compromised and fragmentation will occur and this fragmentation reduces the velocity and therefore the sustained velocity and consistent energy dispersion within the cavity. While a fragmenting bullet will do considerable internal damage within the cavity through eviceration of soft tissue and arteries, it does not sustain its trajectory and have consistent energy dispersion within the cavity that would result in a massive blowout at the point of exit. This is only achieved through a full metal jacketed bullet that has 1800fps or greater velocity to create an internal wound cavity that is depresses the internal fluids and material due to the energy dispersion. It retains enough velocity to carry this energy disruption out of the exit.

IMO with the headwound, we are looking at a FMJ bullet in the range of 2400fps or greater that initially penetrated shallow into the cavity. This is why we have the flap and the extensive exit wound and forced reaction rearward of the head.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thanks Al, thanks Shanet.
I always knew it had to have been a FMJ that hit Kennedy, but I'm also familiar with hollow point damage and wanted to know what the comparisons between a mercury loaded hollow point were, as opposed to a regular hollow point, taking into consideration the grain and/or weight of the load, as well as the similarities or differences it would make in the exit wound appearance.
Thanks again for you patience, guys. I'm off to work for now, and will look forward to your reply. That's what I love about Al and John, their experience with regard to the physics and application involving the field of ballistics, which also happens to be a hobby and/or extracurricular activity of my own.

#7 Shanet Clark

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 11:22 PM

So much of the problem is in an accurate estimation of the wounds,
on which to base our ballistics model.

The Warren commission and HSAC material is compromised and mutually
exclusive. The right temple wound is generally interpreted to be a back to
front tangential wound by the "lone gunman" supporters, but it is seen
as a front to back tangential temple wound by traditional "grassy knoll"

The Bullet into the back didn't penetrate or exit, so it wasn't super high power,
maybe it was hollow or even mercury filled?

I believe in an early forward originating .22 shot to JFK's throat, although
AL says that any shot would have been "for the Kill" --evidence points to
small caliber preliminary entry wound. Small caliber rifle from the front

The photos and X-raays apparently cover up a right temple entry wound
and a large rear lower skull exit wound. High powered rifle from the front.

Connally sustained two or three distinct bullet events, from a fairly high angle,
possibly all from the rear. His ribs, wrist and thigh damaged, but not mortally.
Possibly an Il Duce 6.5 with working sites from the rear.

Don Roberdeau's evidentiary map shows skull and bullet material downfield
from the limousine, originating from the Dallas Textile building, and Ms.
Gutierrez makes it clear that the Blood and Tissue pattern conforms to
a forward originating shot. Shots from front and back, headshots: skull forward, tissue backward.
High powered front and back fire.

Organized crime, when it comes together in an alliance to murder someone,
will often use multiple caliber weapons and multiple shots to make it clear
that more than one entity (crime family, motorcycle gang, capo) is taking
responsibility....multiple weapons, calibers and directions not only signifies a
tactical triangulation, but also multi-unit coalition of forces is involved.

Edited by Shanet Clark, 07 February 2005 - 11:26 PM.


#8 Al Carrier

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 08:06 AM

So much of the problem is in an accurate estimation of the wounds,
on which to base our ballistics model.

The Warren commission and HSAC material is compromised and mutually
exclusive.  The right temple wound is generally interpreted to be a back to
front tangential wound by the "lone gunman" supporters, but it is seen
as a front to back tangential temple wound by traditional "grassy knoll"

The Bullet into the back didn't penetrate or exit, so it wasn't super high power,
maybe it was hollow or even mercury filled?

I believe in an early forward originating .22 shot to JFK's throat, although
AL says that any shot would have been "for the Kill" --evidence points to
small caliber preliminary entry wound. Small caliber rifle from the front

The photos and X-raays apparently cover up a right temple entry wound
and a large rear lower skull exit wound.  High powered rifle from the front.

Connally sustained two or three distinct bullet events, from a fairly high angle,
possibly all from the rear. His ribs, wrist and thigh damaged, but not mortally.
Possibly an Il Duce 6.5 with working sites from the rear.

Don Roberdeau's evidentiary map shows skull and bullet material downfield
from the limousine, originating from the Dallas Textile building, and Ms.
Gutierrez makes it clear that the Blood and Tissue pattern conforms to
a forward originating shot. Shots from front and back, headshots: skull forward, tissue backward.
High powered front and back fire.

Organized crime, when it comes together in an  alliance to murder someone,
will often use multiple caliber weapons and multiple shots to make it clear
that more than one entity (crime family, motorcycle gang, capo) is taking
responsibility....multiple weapons, calibers and directions not only signifies a
tactical triangulation, but also multi-unit coalition of forces is involved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Shanet,

Could you please post a reference to an organized crime hit where high powered rifles were utilized or anything that is comparison to the events of Dealey Plaza. I would appreciate seeing a similar MO when it comes to organized crime.

Al

#9 Terry Mauro

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Posted 08 February 2005 - 09:31 AM

[quote name='Shanet Clark' date='Feb 7 2005, 10:22 PM']So much of the problem is in an accurate estimation of the wounds,
on which to base our ballistics model.

The Warren commission and HSAC material is compromised and mutually
exclusive.  The right temple wound is generally interpreted to be a back to
front tangential wound by the "lone gunman" supporters, but it is seen
as a front to back tangential temple wound by traditional "grassy knoll"

The Bullet into the back didn't penetrate or exit, so it wasn't super high power,
maybe it was hollow or even mercury filled?

I believe in an early forward originating .22 shot to JFK's throat, although
AL says that any shot would have been "for the Kill" --evidence points to
small caliber preliminary entry wound. Small caliber rifle from the front

The photos and X-raays apparently cover up a right temple entry wound
and a large rear lower skull exit wound.  High powered rifle from the front.

Connally sustained two or three distinct bullet events, from a fairly high angle,
possibly all from the rear. His ribs, wrist and thigh damaged, but not mortally.
Possibly an Il Duce 6.5 with working sites from the rear.

Don Roberdeau's evidentiary map shows skull and bullet material downfield
from the limousine, originating from the Dallas Textile building, and Ms.
Gutierrez makes it clear that the Blood and Tissue pattern conforms to
a forward originating shot. Shots from front and back, headshots: skull forward, tissue backward.
High powered front and back fire.

Organized crime, when it comes together in an  alliance to murder someone,
will often use multiple caliber weapons and multiple shots to make it clear
that more than one entity (crime family, motorcycle gang, capo) is taking
responsibility....multiple weapons, calibers and directions not only signifies a
tactical triangulation, but also multi-unit coalition of forces is involved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote]

[QUOTE]The Bullet into the back didn't penetrate or exit, so it wasn't super high power, maybe it was hollow or even mercury filled?

But if the bullet to the back had been a hollow point aka a dumb-dumb bullet,
mercury load or not, the characteristics of that type of a bullet would have lacerated the interior aspect of the dorsal chest cavity, wouldn't it?

#10 John Ritchson

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 04:30 AM

On the Lancer Forum, I saw where John Ritchson reported on the performance of mercury filled bullet. I have quoted him below:

[Snipped for Brevity]

What should be pointed out is that mercury is only preserved in a liquid state when controlled in a chamber and not released to surrounding air and temperature. When it is exposed, it becomes hardened and remains in the hardened state. The advantage of the mercury filled bullet is that the core of the lead or lead jacketed bullet is considerably harder and less resistant than the external mass of lead or lead and copper jacketing. The hardened mercury being in the general range of 59 Rockwell Cone and the lead being at roughly 38 Rockwell Cone in hardness. 

The problem in designing a mercury filled bullet is to fill the hollowed cavity of the bullet with mecury without pockets as the mercury hardens almost immediately. The fuller the cavity with mercury composition, the greater the dispersement of the bullet.

What occurs upon impact is that the outer lead/lead with copper jacketing depresses against the much harder mercury core and the lead or jacketed lead is disrupted and fragments greatly during initial penetration. This is the exploding bullet. However, what most misunderstand, is that the explosive effect of the bullet is contained within a small cavity as the energy dispersion is compromised greatly due to the minute fragments being dispersed into a resistant cavity. In the case of a skull penetration, the brain would have considerable internal disruption, but it would have little or no effect on an exit wound, as the fragments of the bullet would lose their energy quickly due to their low weight.

I fully support John's issue with the misaligned scope.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thanks for the feedback Al and sorry for not getting back to you sooner on this but I've been offline for a while.

For the readers, Al is pointing out the general effects of an amalgamated mercury load which is what mercury does when it comes into contact with other metals such as lead, tin, antimony, silver and gold to name a few.

Such would truely be a frangible bullet and would behave much as Al describes as opposed to what I've occasionally heard called a [Splatter-Round] which is an encapsulated mercury loaded bullet that behaves somewhat differently during terminal transit.

I may be wrong here but it is the latter which I've been led to believe represents the File's Scenerio and such is not something someone could whip up on a kitchen table in a few minutes. Such an encapsulation would require extreamly precise milling and sinturing techniques comparable to watchmaking.

I must confess that I feel constrained at this point to go into further detail as to the actual manufactoring of such a bullet but needless to say, in a purely hypothetical situation, such a bullet in the .300 Win. Mag. caliber made from a 220 grain Sierra Match King hollowpoint and loaded up with approx. 68 grains of IMR-4350 powder, even at 100 meters would still deliver in excess of 3,500 ft.lbs. of energy upon terminal impact, seeing as how there is only a 006.6 difference in the atomic weight of the two respective elements.

Such is the bullet of a [Make-Sure] shooter.

I will have to double check this with Craig Roberts, but if memory serves the Sierra Match King was Gunny Hathcocks bullet of choice in his old Model 70 Win.

At any rate, and be that as it may, have you had a chance to check out any of Dave Emory's poly-carbonated tipped bullets from Hornady? He has implied to me at least, that they perform on par to the hotter KTW loads with respect to penetration but produce a far greater cone of destruction. I haven't had the means to test that theory yet and was wondering if you or someone you knew might have some experience with those bullets.

Respectfully:

#11 Ryan Crowe

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 04:58 AM

Hi John,

Are you talking about the Hornady SST/Super Shock Tipped rounds with the red polymer nose??

#12 Shanet Clark

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 05:33 AM

I was talking about close in work with handguns.
In one case a .44 and a .38 meant the two local gangs eliminating an upstart.
Any rifle murders at that time would have been mainly on the OAS side, I believe.

The .22, the 6.5 and the 7.6 thats what we've got here, I believe, maybe a 30.03

Is that about right? I think this would signal a coalition.

Perhaps a Texas Oil team , a BOP Cuban team and the Giancana Mob team, represented by three calibers.
This is how many see it, a "compact" contract.

#13 Terry Mauro

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:00 AM

[quote name='John Ritchson' date='Feb 11 2005, 03:30 AM'][quote name='Al Carrier' date='Feb 5 2005, 02:19 AM']On the Lancer Forum, I saw where John Ritchson reported on the performance of mercury filled bullet. I have quoted him below:

[Snipped for Brevity]

What should be pointed out is that mercury is only preserved in a liquid state when controlled in a chamber and not released to surrounding air and temperature. When it is exposed, it becomes hardened and remains in the hardened state. The advantage of the mercury filled bullet is that the core of the lead or lead jacketed bullet is considerably harder and less resistant than the external mass of lead or lead and copper jacketing. The hardened mercury being in the general range of 59 Rockwell Cone and the lead being at roughly 38 Rockwell Cone in hardness. 

The problem in designing a mercury filled bullet is to fill the hollowed cavity of the bullet with mecury without pockets as the mercury hardens almost immediately. The fuller the cavity with mercury composition, the greater the dispersement of the bullet.

What occurs upon impact is that the outer lead/lead with copper jacketing depresses against the much harder mercury core and the lead or jacketed lead is disrupted and fragments greatly during initial penetration. This is the exploding bullet. However, what most misunderstand, is that the explosive effect of the bullet is contained within a small cavity as the energy dispersion is compromised greatly due to the minute fragments being dispersed into a resistant cavity. In the case of a skull penetration, the brain would have considerable internal disruption, but it would have little or no effect on an exit wound, as the fragments of the bullet would lose their energy quickly due to their low weight.

I fully support John's issue with the misaligned scope.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback Al and sorry for not getting back to you sooner on this but I've been offline for a while.

For the readers, Al is pointing out the general effects of an amalgamated mercury load which is what mercury does when it comes into contact with other metals such as lead, tin, antimony, silver and gold to name a few.

Such would truely be a frangible bullet and would behave much as Al describes as opposed to what I've occasionally heard called a [Splatter-Round] which is an encapsulated mercury loaded bullet that behaves somewhat differently during terminal transit.

I may be wrong here but it is the latter which I've been led to believe represents the File's Scenerio and such is not something someone could whip up on a kitchen table in a few minutes. Such an encapsulation would require extreamly precise milling and sinturing techniques comparable to watchmaking.

I must confess that I feel constrained at this point to go into further detail as to the actual manufactoring of such a bullet but needless to say, in a purely hypothetical situation, such a bullet in the .300 Win. Mag. caliber made from a 220 grain Sierra Match King hollowpoint and loaded up with approx. 68 grains of IMR-4350 powder, even at 100 meters would still deliver in excess of 3,500 ft.lbs. of energy upon terminal impact, seeing as how there is only a 006.6 difference in the atomic weight of the two respective elements.

Such is the bullet of a [Make-Sure] shooter.

I will have to double check this with Craig Roberts, but if memory serves the Sierra Match King was Gunny Hathcocks bullet of choice in his old Model 70 Win.

At any rate, and be that as it may, have you had a chance to check out any of Dave Emory's poly-carbonated tipped bullets from Hornady? He has implied to me at least, that they perform on par to the hotter KTW loads with respect to penetration but produce a far greater cone of destruction. I haven't had the means to test that theory yet and was wondering if you or someone you knew might have some experience with those bullets.

Respectfully:

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[/quote]

[QUOTE] even at 100 meters would still deliver in excess of 3,500 ft.lbs. of energy upon terminal impact, seeing as how there is only a 006.6 difference in the atomic weight of the two respective elements.

Such is the bullet of a [Make-Sure] shooter.

I will have to double check this with Craig Roberts, but if memory serves the Sierra Match King was Gunny Hathcocks bullet of choice in his old Model 70 Win.


Holy crap, John! That's really saying something.
Thanks for the lowdown.

#14 Al Carrier

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 06:43 AM

At any rate, and be that as it may, have you had a chance to check out any of Dave Emory's poly-carbonated tipped bullets from Hornady? He has implied to me at least, that they perform on par to the hotter KTW loads with respect to penetration but produce a far greater cone of destruction. I haven't had the means to test that theory yet and was wondering if you or someone you knew might have some experience with those bullets.

Respectfully:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote]

John,

Tested them in the 168gr .308 from a Remington 700 and they are all of what they are supposed to be. IMO, when you get into this range of weapon caliber, even the basic JHP will result in more than enough elimination range of wound ballistics. I am impressed with it however if it holds in the 55gr 5.56mm for a varmit load. Nasty round and accurate to boot.

Al

#15 John Ritchson

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Posted 14 February 2005 - 05:27 AM

[quote name='Al Carrier' date='Feb 11 2005, 11:43 PM']
At any rate, and be that as it may, have you had a chance to check out any of Dave Emory's poly-carbonated tipped bullets from Hornady? He has implied to me at least, that they perform on par to the hotter KTW loads with respect to penetration but produce a far greater cone of destruction. I haven't had the means to test that theory yet and was wondering if you or someone you knew might have some experience with those bullets.

Respectfully:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote]

John,

Tested them in the 168gr .308 from a Remington 700 and they are all of what they are supposed to be. IMO, when you get into this range of weapon caliber, even the basic JHP will result in more than enough elimination range of wound ballistics. I am impressed with it however if it holds in the 55gr 5.56mm for a varmit load. Nasty round and accurate to boot.

Al

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[/quote]


Thanks Al, I suspected as much. To my knowledge Dave has never been one to hyperbolize his ballistic info, but I also know that since he does work for Hornady it is incombent upon him to promote his company's products and I did note that since Hornady started making bullets optimised for the M38 Carcano rifle his opinion of the shooting capability of that particular weapon has been somewhat modified in a bit more generous manner. Even so, Dave is careful to qualify his statements with the admonishment to prospective shooters to make certain they have a Carcano in good working order before loading for it.

On another note, the last time I communicated with Craig Roberts he was working on developing a portable field reloading system which if memory serves, weighs in at just under two pounds and is designed to clip on to a utility belt fanny-pack fashion which will allow a shooter to tailor-make his own loads on the spot which will be optimised for the field conditions under which he/she will be shooting.

I plan on trying to horse-trade him out of one when he has worked out the bugs and if you are interested, I'll try to dicker him out of another since I'm somewhat of a fanatic when it comes to sub MOA accuracy. :ice I also suspect that you lean somewhat in the same direction.

Respectfully




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