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H. L. Hunt and Richard Nixon


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#1 John Simkin

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 02:34 PM

For my sins I have been reading Maurice Stans' The Terrors of Justice (1978). It does include one interesting passage. Nixon instructed Stans on the collection of funds for his 1972 election campaign. Nixon said, and I quote: "Don't take any money under any circumstances from H. L. Hunt". Stans points out he never discovered why Nixon was so hostile to the idea of Hunt providing him with funds.

#2 John Geraghty

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 02:45 PM

In an aside to this association, Hunt did have a very good relationship with JE Hoover. According to John Curington, Hunts right hand man during the 60s, Hunt actually had a direct line to Hoovers office. Hoover supplied information about MLK to Hunt who broadcast it in his 'lifeline' radio programmes which aired accross the country and portrayed King as a communist. Hunt pumped millions into this radio programme.

Hunt is reported to have been very close to Hoover, Nixon was only at times friendly with Hoover, perhaps it was because of Hunt's allegiance to hoover that he refused his money.

#3 Pat Speer

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 06:10 AM

Hunt is reported to have been very close to Hoover, Nixon was only at times friendly with Hoover, perhaps it was because of Hunt's allegiance to hoover that he refused his money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


In the movie Nixon, Stone put forth the theory that Nixon believed Texas oilmen and their Cuban exile buddies were behind the JFK assassination, and that Nixon suspected as much and was guilt-ridden over it. These guys supported Nixon from way back and he courted their support. By name, these Texas oilmen were the Hunts, the Murchisons and Connally's provider Sid Richardson (although I think he died before 63). I believe Hemmings has admitted that Hunt funded a lot of his and Loran Hall's activities. Or was that Walker? Or both? Please set me straight, Gerry.

Hoover and Tolson summered on Murchison's dime for years, hob-nobbing at Del Mar with the mobsters from La Costa, many of whom were friends with Murchison and Hunt. Several sources report that Murchison threw a party the night before the assassination, with Hoover, LbJ and Nixon in atttendance. It was at this party that LBJ's mistress says he told her Kennedy wasn't gonna be around much longer. I believe it's accepted fact that Hunt fled the country after the assassination, and only returned after the FBI leaked its report and the furor died down.

At times I wish Texas was still a separate country.

Edited by Pat Speer, 27 May 2005 - 06:12 AM.


#4 Tim Gratz

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 06:30 AM

Pat, I assume you know who wrote Stone's "Nixon"?

Interesting that the scenario in Stone's "Nixon" of the Kennedy assassination is different than the scenario in Stone's "JFK".

He got it wrong twice.

Rumor has it Stone's next movie will be: "Carter".

Edited by Tim Gratz, 27 May 2005 - 06:30 AM.


#5 Tim Gratz

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 06:33 AM

Pat wrote:

In the movie Nixon, Stone put forth the theory that Nixon believed Texas oilmen and their Cuban exile buddies were behind the JFK assassination, and that Nixon suspected as much and was guilt-ridden over it. These guys supported Nixon from way back and he courted their support

Pat at least in the early sixties these guys were supporters of LBJ and I THINK they supprted the JFK/LBJ ticket in 1960. As John pointed out above, Nixon ordered Stans not to accept any money from H. L. Hunt.

Edited by Tim Gratz, 27 May 2005 - 06:43 AM.


#6 James Richards

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 06:35 AM

Wasn't there a rumor that Nelson Bunker Hunt actually met Lee Harvey Oswald? Does anyone know anything about that?

James

#7 Tim Gratz

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 06:42 AM

In "Deep Politics" Scott writes, perceptively, I think, that Ruby's appearance at the Hunt offices on the morning of November 22, 1963 exculpates Hunt.

There's an old Texas saying; "That dog won't hunt!"

#8 John Simkin

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 06:43 AM

Hoover and Tolson summered on Murchison's dime for years, hob-nobbing at Del Mar with the mobsters from La Costa, many of whom were friends with Murchison and Hunt.† Several sources report that Murchison threw a party the night before the assassination, with Hoover, LbJ and Nixon in atttendance.† It was at this party that LBJ's mistress says he told her Kennedy wasn't gonna be around much longer.† I believe it's accepted fact that Hunt fled the country after the assassination, and only returned after the FBI leaked its report and the furor died down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I believe this story originally came from and interview with Madeleine Brown, on the television programme, A Current Affair (24th February, 1992)


On Thursday night, Nov. 21, 1963, the last evening prior to Camelot's demise, I attended a social at Clint Murchison's home. It was my understanding that the event was scheduled as a tribute honoring his long time friend, J. Edgar Hoover (whom Murchison had first met decades earlier through President William Howard Taft), and his companion, Clyde Tolson. Val Imm, the society editor for the now-defunct Dallas Times Herald, unwittingly documented one of the most significant gatherings in American history. The impressive guest list included John McCloy, Richard Nixon, George Brown, R. L. Thornton, H. L. Hunt and a host of others from the 8F group. The jovial party was just breaking up when Lyndon made an unscheduled visit. I was the most surprised by his appearance since Jesse had not mentioned anything about Lyndon's coming to Clint's. With Lyndon's hectic schedule, I never dreamed he could attend the big party. After all, he had arrived in Dallas on Tuesday to attend the Pepsi-Cola convention. Tension filled the room upon his arrival. The group immediately went behind closed doors. A short time later Lyndon, anxious and red-faced, reappeared I knew how secretly Lyndon operated. Therefore I said nothing... not even that I was happy to see him. Squeezing my hand so hard, it felt crushed from the pressure, he spoke with a grating whisper, a quiet growl, into my ear, not a love message, but one I'll always remember: "After tomorrow those goddamn Kennedys will never embarrass me again - that's no threat - that's a promise."


She added this information in her book, Texas in the Morning (1998)

Just a few weeks later (after the assassination) I mentioned to him (LBJ) that people in Dallas were saying he himself had something to do with it. He became really violent, really ugly, and said it was American Intelligence and oil that were behind it. Then he left the room and slammed the door It scared me.

Gary Mack published an account of Madeleine Brown's story on 14th May, 1997.

Madeleine has claimed over the years that she attended a party at Clint Murchisonís house the night before the assassination and LBJ, Hoover and Nixon were there. The party story, without LBJ, first came from Penn Jones in Forgive My Grief. In that version, the un-credited source was a black chauffeur whom Jones didnít identify, and the explanation Jones gave was that it was the last chance to decide whether or not to kill JFK. Of course, Hoover used only top FBI agents for transportation and in the FBI of 1963, none were black. Actually, there is no confirmation for a party at Murchisonís. I asked Peter OíDonnell because Madeleine claimed he was there, too. Peter said there was no party. Madeleine even said there was a story about it in the Dallas Times Herald some months later (which makes no sense), but she had not been able to find it. Val Imm (Society Editor of the Dallas Times Herald) told Bob Porter (of the Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza staff) recently she had no memory of such an event and even looked through her notes - in vain.

Could LBJ have been at a Murchison party? No. LBJ was seen and photographed in the Houston Coliseum with JFK at a dinner and speech. They flew out around 10pm and arrived at Carswell (Air Force Base in northwest Fort Worth) at 11:07 Thursday night. Their motorcade to the Hotel Texas arrived about 11:50 and LBJ was again photographed. He stayed in the Will Rogers suite on the 13th floor and Manchester (William Manchester - author of The Death of a President) says he was up late. Could Nixon have been at Murchisonís party? No. Tony Zoppi (Entertainment Editor of The Dallas Morning News) and Don Safran (Entertainment Editor of the Dallas Times Herald) saw Nixon at the Empire Room at the Statler-Hilton. He walked in with Joan Crawford (Movie actress). Robert Clary (of Hoganís Heroes fame) stopped his show to point them out, saying ď. . . either you like him or you donít.Ē Zoppi thought that was in poor taste, but Safran said Nixon laughed. Zoppiís deadline was 11pm, so he stayed until 10:30 or 10:45 and Nixon was still there.


I don't always agree with Gary but I think he is right on this one. If LBJ, Hunt, Murchison, George Brown, Nixon, etc. had been involved in the plot against JFK, I think it would be highly unlikely that they would meet up together on the eve of the assassination. Although I would like to believe it as it is one of the few sources that mentions that the 8F Suite Group was involved in the assassination.

#9 Tim Gratz

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 06:48 AM

John wrote:

I don't always agree with Gary but I think he is right on this one. If LBJ, Hunt, Murchison, George Brown, Nixon, etc. had been involved in the plot against JFK, I think it would be highly unlikely that they would meet up together on the eve of the assassination.

I don't always agree with John but I think he is right on this one. That was also the point Scott was making about Ruby being at Hunt's office. Scott says Ruby might have gone there to plant a false trail but that assumes someone knew Ruby was to become a public part of the assassination. I doubt that was true on the morning of the 22nd. I think almost all of us agree that LHO was a patsy and whoever set him up planned to dispose of him on Friday.

Query whether we can all agree that Brown's story about the party at Murchison's was made of whole cloth?

Edited by Tim Gratz, 27 May 2005 - 06:49 AM.


#10 Tim Gratz

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 07:09 AM

I think a funny story re H. L. Hunt is the KGB faked Oswald letter to "Mr. Hunt". If I recall, the KGB was trying to implicate E. Howard but its plan was frustrated when conspiracy theorists assumed the letter was intended for H. L. Hunt.

#11 Ron Ecker

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 08:47 AM

John wrote:

I don't always agree with Gary but I think he is right on this one. If LBJ, Hunt, Murchison, George Brown, Nixon, etc. had been involved in the plot against JFK, I think it would be highly unlikely that they would meet up together on the eve of the assassination.

I don't always agree with John but I think he is right on this one.


I don't always agree with Tim but I think he is right on this one.

On the story about Hunt leaving the country right after the assassination, has that been substantiated anywhere?

The book Farewell America says Hunt went to one of his secret Mexcian hideaways, and General Walker joined him there, and they stayed until Christmas. No source is cited. I read somewhere else that Hunt went to Washington after the assassination and stayed in a hotel for a couple of weeks, in case LBJ needed him.

These disparate stories at least suggest that nobody knows where Hunt went if anywhere.

Since one of Hunt's security men (I forget his name at the moment) said that Hunt sent him down to the Dallas jail to check out the security around Oswald, that suggests that Hunt didn't go anywhere, but stayed in town for the next killing.

Ron

#12 Mark Knight

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 04:18 PM

Rumor has it Stone's next movie will be: "Carter".

Tim, if you're implying chronology, why leave out "Ford"???

ESPECIALLY since he was a member of the Warren Commission...

I don't always agree with Tim but I think he is right on this one.

I don't always agree with Ron but I think he's right on this one.

Since one of Hunt's security men (I forget his name at the moment) said that Hunt sent him down to the Dallas jail to check out the security around Oswald, that suggests that Hunt didn't go anywhere, but stayed in town for the next killing.

Maybe it's debatable whether "that dog won't hunt," but if this statement is true, it's apparent that "that Hunt WAS [bird-] doggin'" Oswald...

#13 John Simkin

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 05:10 PM

I don't always agree with Ron but I think he's right on this one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I nearly always agree with Ron and he is definitely right on this one.

#14 Ron Ecker

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 05:28 PM

Hunt's then chief aide John Wesley Curington told Dick Russell (as related in TMWKTM, pp. 601-602) that Hunt called him early that Saturday morning and told him to go see what kind of security was surrounding Oswald in police custody. Curington went to the jail, ostensibly on another matter, and got into an elevator, on which were Fritz and Oswald. Fritz said to Curington (in the latter's words), "Meet the blankety-blank who shot the president."

Curington said, "Mr. Hunt told me, regardless of what time it was, to come by the house and tell him what I witnessed. It was a little bit after midnight when I reported to him that, in my opinon, there was no security whatsoever around the jailhouse. A lot of newspeople, but nobody too concerned with security. We did not discuss the merits of this, and I left."

I also see that Curington was the source of the story that Hunt went to Washington after the assassination. Curington says that Hunt left for Washington soon after he reported to him on the security. He stayed for about a week in DC in the Mayflower Hotel.

Curington also says that on the next Saturday when Hunt was back in Dallas, he had Curington go to the lobby of the Mercantile Bank Building and not let any employee go to the seventh floor where their offices were. After 15 minutes or so in the lobby, Curington saw Marina Oswald get off an elevator and go get into an unmarked car. Curington checked the tag number and found it was registered to the FBI.

Ron

#15 Dawn Meredith

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 09:17 PM

I'm commerating Memorial Day by re-reading "Farewell America".

(And pretending I did not MOVE TO TEXAS 15 years ago. )

Dawn




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