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Eugene Thane Cesar: Did he do it?


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#46 Pat Speer

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 05:43 PM

Being of French and German stock does not preclude one from having roots in Cuba, and being a Cuban-American. Many Americans trace back to somewhere other than America, should one go back a generation or two. The same is true for other western countries, and many other countries as well. For example, I know a woman of Colombian heritage, whose parents came from Spain and Turkey; she is thus of Spanish and Turkish "stock", while nevertheless a Colombian-American.

I also have known a number of European Jews who immigrated to South America before coming to the States. Such a circumstance can lead to Mrs. Goldberg's being a Brazilian-American of good Polish "stock".

#47 David Andrews

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 05:02 PM

I mentioned this on another page, but again - Who was it that loved this guy so much at birth as to name him (already a Cesar) a "Thane" out of the nobility in Macbeth, and Eugene ("beautifully created")?

His parents? Or possibly Prince Philip


Well, who were this guy's parents? What kind of education, politics, and aspirations did thay have? Their splendidly-named son ended up a security guard. Was he more than that, covertly, for Hughes/Maheu, or other employers?

I keep thinking that people have absorbed the Freud thing about every joke having a question or serious intention at its heart, but the populace isn't hitting back my serves.

Edited by David Andrews, 24 September 2009 - 06:39 PM.


#48 Randy Downs

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 06:46 AM

Yes, i would say Cesar is a person of interest. All due respect to recent sound tests and other efforts. But the best physical evidence that existed was confiscated, hidden, then destroyed by the LAPD. This is documented, we know this already. Now if Noguchi says the fatal shot behind RFK's ear was made no more than a few inches away, then the guy carrying a .22 and in position to fire at that close of a range -that's a person of interest. I mean, what are we quibbling about here? I think the man's lucky there was no house-cleaning, excuse me, i mean series of accidental deaths of witnesses, persons of interest, etc. in the aftermath.


Regards,
R.D.

#49 Guest_John Gillespie_*

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 09:39 PM

"While some have tried to make something of Cesar's short employment at Lockheed Skunk Works, I've always considered that a non-issue."

Hi Pat,

I quite agree. Some guards are full-time, permanent and others part-time, Permanent (or temp). Many guards get hired per assignment and some of the assignments are as brief as one day or night. It would be worth a peek into this employment history for the identity of immediate Supervisor and even co-worker(s). I mean, he ends up there on THAT NIGHT and someone had to assign him. This would be time consuming but not that difficult. Gotta be a reason that sheds more suspicion or one that pushes toward innocence.

Thanks Pat,
JG

#50 Randy Downs

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 11:43 PM

Wow, this is surreal.
A reason? I have law enforcement in my family; any cops on this board active or retired? What are the usual motives for murder, please?

And in a murder investigation, how does one start, where do you begin?
You follow the evidence. If the victim was John Q. Citizen -and not RFK- there's no way people would be sitting around discussing the origins and history of a person's name. You take the findings of the coroner, you follow the leads that develop from there.

I can't decide if this is ridiculous or sad; but it is certainly surreal.


R. Downs

Edited by Randy Downs, 28 October 2009 - 11:44 PM.


#51 David Andrews

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Posted 24 November 2009 - 10:42 PM

Wow, this is surreal.
A reason? I have law enforcement in my family; any cops on this board active or retired? What are the usual motives for murder, please?

And in a murder investigation, how does one start, where do you begin?
You follow the evidence. If the victim was John Q. Citizen -and not RFK- there's no way people would be sitting around discussing the origins and history of a person's name. You take the findings of the coroner, you follow the leads that develop from there.

I can't decide if this is ridiculous or sad; but it is certainly surreal.


R. Downs


But, see, dude - nobody listened to Coroner Noguchi at the time. They tried to silence him. So we're all here today beatin' our gums about structuralism in naming, just waitin' for some connected, level-headed feller such as yourself to overcome all obstruction and obfuscation and get us an indictment. Then we'll all be in line to smooch your patootie, for sure!

Edited by David Andrews, 24 November 2009 - 11:48 PM.


#52 Randy Downs

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 05:18 AM

Wow, this is surreal.
A reason? I have law enforcement in my family; any cops on this board active or retired? What are the usual motives for murder, please?

And in a murder investigation, how does one start, where do you begin?
You follow the evidence. If the victim was John Q. Citizen -and not RFK- there's no way people would be sitting around discussing the origins and history of a person's name. You take the findings of the coroner, you follow the leads that develop from there.

I can't decide if this is ridiculous or sad; but it is certainly surreal.


R. Downs


But, see, dude - nobody listened to Coroner Noguchi at the time. They tried to silence him. So we're all here today beatin' our gums about structuralism in naming, just waitin' for some connected, level-headed feller such as yourself to overcome all obstruction and obfuscation and get us an indictment. Then we'll all be in line to smooch your patootie, for sure!


"Indictment"?? Are you high, funny guy?
Nobody that's actually responsible for the deaths of JFK, RFK, MLK, will ever be held responsible or accountable. Laws cannot reach high enough to touch those with power to kill kings. Let us persevere to discover the truth in face of reality. Yet not be in denial of reality at the same time.


R.D.

#53 David Andrews

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Posted 25 November 2009 - 09:39 PM

Wow, this is surreal.
A reason? I have law enforcement in my family; any cops on this board active or retired? What are the usual motives for murder, please?

And in a murder investigation, how does one start, where do you begin?
You follow the evidence. If the victim was John Q. Citizen -and not RFK- there's no way people would be sitting around discussing the origins and history of a person's name. You take the findings of the coroner, you follow the leads that develop from there.

I can't decide if this is ridiculous or sad; but it is certainly surreal.


R. Downs


But, see, dude - nobody listened to Coroner Noguchi at the time. They tried to silence him. So we're all here today beatin' our gums about structuralism in naming, just waitin' for some connected, level-headed feller such as yourself to overcome all obstruction and obfuscation and get us an indictment. Then we'll all be in line to smooch your patootie, for sure!


"Indictment"?? Are you high, funny guy?
Nobody that's actually responsible for the deaths of JFK, RFK, MLK, will ever be held responsible or accountable. Laws cannot reach high enough to touch those with power to kill kings. Let us persevere to discover the truth in face of reality. Yet not be in denial of reality at the same time.


R.D.


Good will to good gentlemen this holiday season :D

#54 Linda Minor

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 02:02 PM

Cesar gave an interview for a magazine in the mid 80's. Something to the effect of "Regaldies" was the magazine's title (I used to have it but can't seem to locate it at the moment) and in this inteview he said he'd had his gun out but was quick to say he did not fire it. Dan Moldea may have been the iterviewer.

Perhaps someone here remembers this interview. I was quite surprised that he was located, and more so that he agreed to an interview.

I just looked thru Phill Melanson's book on RFK thinking I might see a reference to this interview there,
but did not. (Tho he does mention an unpublished interview Moldea did of Cesar in 87).

Sorry this is not more helpful, trying to remember it from 20 years ago.

Dawn


The confession appears in David E. Scheim's book Contract on America: The Mafia Murder of President John F. Kennedy. Thane Eugene Cesar is mentioned first at page 325, along with an excerpt from "a 1969 filmed and tape-recorded interview with journalist Theodore Charach:

Cesar: For some reason, I don't know why, I had a hold of his [Kennedy's] arm under his elbow here ... his right arm .... And I was a little behind Bobby.... When the shots were fired, when I reached for my gun, and that's when I got knocked down....
Charach: Did you see other guys pull their guns after you pulled your gun...in the kitchen?
Cesar: No, I didn't see anyone else pull their guns in the kitchen area.... Except for myself....
Charach: How far did you have it out?
Cesar: Oh, I had it out of my holster. I had it in my hand. fn212
Footnote 212: Cesar interview, in The Second Gun.


http://www.maryferre...sPageId=1128736

Edited by Linda Minor, 29 August 2010 - 01:42 AM.


#55 Guest_Tom Scully_*

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 02:56 PM

Linda, the shoe fits but no one in the research community wants to wear it.


http://books.google....nG=Search Books
American opinion‎ - Page 65
Language Arts & Disciplines - 1978
Bobby and Roy Cohn developed a mutual hatred, no doubt justified on both
sides.
Perhaps Bobby had a special animus toward Cohn's buddy, G. David Schine. Certainly biographer Arthur Schlesinger seems to have one. A tragically ironic point which historian Schlesinger does not mention (nor, I believe, has anyone else mentioned it) is that, as Caesar when stabbed fell at the foot of Pompey's statue, so Robert Kennedy, when shot, fell to the floor in a hotel owned by G. David Schine, who was living there at the time.

http://books.google....nG=Search Books
Mafia Kingfish: Carlos Marcello and the assassination of John F. Kennedy‎ - Page 352
John H. Davis - Social Science - 1989 - 580 pages

...racetracks. In addition, the FBI found that both

In his extensive investigation of the Robert Kennedy assassination, Theodore Charach
discovered that Cesar had strong ties to California mobster John Alessio,
a friend of Mickey Cohen's and gambling king of San Diego,
who three years after the assassination would be federal prison for skimming millions from San Diego racetrack revenues. Charach also established that Thane Cesar had not been a regular security guard at the Ambassador but was only called in occasionally by the hotel's management for temporary assignments. In 1987 Cesar confirmed this in an interview with investigative reporter Dan Moldea during which he told Moldea he had not worked at the Ambassador for four months when he was suddenly called by the hotel management to provide additional security for Robert Kennedy on the evening of June 5. Given Sirhan's connections to associates of Mickey Cohen's, Cesar's connection to John Alessio, Cohen's long-standing relationship with the Ambassador Hotel, his fear of a Robert Kennedy presidency, and his friendship with such determined enemies of Kennedy's as Carlos Marcello and Jimmy Hoffa, it is not difficult to envision how a Mafia conspiracy to assassinate the President. Had not the CIA recently entered into a conspiracy to assassinate Fidel Castro in alliance with the Mafia? We know that Carlos Marcello told Joe Hauser he had been in on the CIA-Mafia plots to assassinate Castro. Could he not have had someone who had been been associated with the CIA-Mafia plot to kill Castro aid him in a possible plot to assassinate President Kennedy? Regrettably, the Assassinations Committee's 300-page nvestigative...

http://books.google....nG=Search Books
Mafia Kingfish: Carlos Marcello and the assassination of John F. Kennedy‎ - Page 351

...It was Charach who first considered the possibility of Mafia involvement in the assassination, for during his investigation of the murder, he found out that for many years the Ambassador Hotel had been owned in part, by investors connected to organized crime, and he gradually became aware of both Sirhan's and Cesar's underworld associations. Charach also found out that not long after the Kennedy
assassination, the hotel's director of security disappeared and the hotel's files for 1968 were destroyed. Although Thane Cesar has never been officially charged with the assassination of Robert Kennedy, almost all the serious students of the crime, including forensic pathologists, criminologists, university professors, Sirhan's other victims, believe that Cesar was indeed Kennedy's sole killer.

http://books.google....j...dor&f=false

L.A. exposed: strange myths and curious legends in the City of Angels‎
Paul Young - Social Science - 2002 - 297 pages
And it should be noted that Cohen not only ran a Mafia-controlled casino at the
Ambassador Hotel, but that he had control of the Santa Anita racetrack as

http://books.google.com/books?id=FU8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA26&dq=life+magazine+louis+nichols+cohn+three+agents&hl=en&ei=S6CDTPjMKMKBlAeUpbCyDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA
One-man Roy Cohn lobby - Sep 5, 1969 - Page 26

LIFE - Vol. 67, No. 10 - 78 pages - Magazine - Full view
To get around the bank examiners' objections to distant financing, Buckley, Ex-FBI man Louis Nichols triggered transfers of three agents who helped the Cohn prosecution. During the McCarthy hearings in 1954, young counsel Roy Cohn

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbs=bks%3A1&q=hoover+tolson+miami+hotel+schine&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=9f5a1b346cf253
Search Results

1.
Secrecy and power: the life of J. Edgar Hoover

Richard Gid Powers - 1987 - 624 pages - Snippet view
He spent Christmas and New Year's in Miami at the Gulf Stream Hotel, owned by the family of G. David Schine, the McCarthy staffer who was ... When Murchison built his hotel, he put up a bungalow in back especially for Hoover and Tolson. ...
books.google.com - More editions
2.
Bobby and J. Edgar: the historic face-off between the Kennedys and ...

Burton Hersh - 2007 - 612 pages - Snippet view
of Meyer Schine, the one-time candy butcher putting together a string of hotels. Schine put up Hoover and Tolson in his Gulfstream Hotel on Miami Beach, headquarters for the Mob's betting- parlor impresario Frank Erickson. ...
books.google.com - More editions
3.
Behind the scenes in American government: personalities and politics

Peter Woll - 1991 - 345 pages - Snippet view
In Miami Hoover stayed free at a hotel owned by Meyer Schine, who admitted in congressional testimony that he also ... in specially prepared chili from Texas for the occasion; the bills that were never presented to Hoover and Tolson ran ...
books.google.com - More editions
4.
Puppetmaster: the secret life of J. Edgar Hoover

Richard Hack - 2004 - 455 pages - Snippet view
While the country was seeing Red, Hoover found that he was finally able to relax, putting his feet up on a lounge chair at the Roney Plaza Hotel in Miami. He was on yet another working vacation, with Clyde Tolson in the adjoining suite, ...
books.google.com - More editions
5.
The Director: an oral biography of J. Edgar Hoover

Ovid Demaris - 1975 - 405 pages - Snippet view
In the old days, Hoover stayed at the Gulf Stream Hotel in Miami, which was owned by the family of G. David Schine, the once celebrated sidekick ... Most times it was just the two of them, Mr. Hoover and Mr. Tolson. Very little company.



#56 Norman T. Field

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 06:15 PM

Despite the high level of circumstantial evidence, I have a strong reason to disbelieve that ET Cesar is guilty. He is, after all, still alive. No heart attack, no car accident, no committing suicide by 3 shots from a bolt action rifle. To me, this is most curious.

#57 Hugo Langendoen

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:33 PM

I read the book by Dan Moldea some time ago, and I have to say it is pretty convincing to me that Cesar did not shoot at Robert Kennedy.
In this book he gives a lot of details which seems to head to a conspiracy, but in the end he gives (in my opinion) good reasons for the theory that Shirhan did it on his own.

#58 Anthony DeFiore

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 02:10 AM

I believe Cesar's gun was recovered somewhere in the last ten or fifteen years. The teenagers who stole it from Cesar's friend came forward as adults and retrieved it from the woods where they'd left it many years before. My recollection is that the FBI tested it and compared it to the bullets taken from Kennedy and the tests were inconclusive.

Dan Moldea, who found and interviewed Cesar, mentioned in his book that Cesar was a long-time resident of Simi Valley, where my girlfriend lives and from which I'm writing. I probably passed him on the street about an hour ago.

And John, I believe Mel said he'd written a book on JFK and that there was no conspiracy, he'd written a book on RFK and that there was no conspiracy, and had written a book on MLK and that there was no conspiracy. It seems he specializes in telling everyone that there are no conspiracies and that the government doesn't make mistakes. Like a minor league Posner.

I asked Mel to read my seminar and get back to me and tell me where I'm wrong. He never came back. So much for those brave lone-nut theorists who are wiilling to admit when others have a point.

Pat, Ted Charach found the gun. In my opinion, The Second Gun is a fantastic documentation of conspiracy to kill RFK. All the best, TD

#59 Anthony DeFiore

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 02:13 AM

I read the book by Dan Moldea some time ago, and I have to say it is pretty convincing to me that Cesar did not shoot at Robert Kennedy.
In this book he gives a lot of details which seems to head to a conspiracy, but in the end he gives (in my opinion) good reasons for the theory that Shirhan did it on his own.

Disagree. Moldea did a documentary to support his claims, and by the end of it, he appeared flustered and trying to support unsupportable body positions of RFK.
The fact that the kitchen doorway had three plus bullet holes in it, and now it has been destroyed for years is a pretty sad testament that justice was not done here.



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