What's in a name?

[Greg Parker]

edit

Edited November 18, 2012 by Greg Parker

[Ron Ecker]

Any way to compare those signatures with Edwin Walker's? (I imagine he picked up enough German to play around with it.)

Ron

[Greg Parker]

Any way to compare those signatures with Edwin Walker's? (I imagine he picked up enough German to play around with it.)

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ron, I don't have any way of personally doing it. I am aware of only one sample of Walker's writing, but it would be useless for comparison purposes as he was very old at the time he produced it, and the writing was obviously done with a shaky hand. Other samples though, no doubt exist, and someone with the time and resources could probably track one down fairly easily.

That said, Walker (a possibility, for sure) wasn't the person I had in mind. I was thinking along the lines of someone like Jerry Droller.

If I am right about the intended meaning of "DF Drittal", it's something of a major (though cryptic) clue that the rifle was purchased by or for a third party. The other names being German words/phrases, strengthen the case that "DF Drittal" is, as well.

FWIW, I have searched, and never found anyone with the surname, "Drittal". If all Oswald wanted was a name, why not one that is recognisable as a name?

Unless one wants to believe Oswald pulled the name out of thin air, and it meant nothing to him, this should count as phyiscal evidence of conspiracy, imo.

Edited August 6, 2005 by Greg Parker

[Jim Root]

Greg

For the record I do have some documents with Walker's handwritting.

I am a little skeptical about:

"A draft card Oswald received in 1960 was signed "Gut Schieffer"

What is the date of issue on this card?

Oswald was in Russia at this time and I would assume that anything he had received would not have made it past the Soviet authorities first. Who would have sent Oswald a draft card after he had been discharged from the Marines in September of 1959? Who would have sent that draft card to Russia? Who would have known where to send it?

Some thoughts (if Lee did in fact receive a draft card in 1960):

September 13th 1960: Oswald was given an "undesirable discharge" from the Marine Corps. Was the draft card sent to him at this time?

February 13th 1961: The American Embassy in Moscow is notified by Lee that he wants to return to the United States.

Could the "Gut Schiffer", which translates as "good skipper/sailer" have been a message that began Oswald's journey back to the US?

But I am confused because we find that "officially" on January 30th 1961 Oswald learns of his "Undesirable" discharge, which is incorrectly reported by his mother to be "Dishonorable." This would seem to preclude him from having received some sort of correspondence dealing with a draft card in 1960.

Can you provide additional information about these three pieces of evidence?

The translation of these three "names" are intriguing!

Jim Root

[Ron Ecker]

The "D.F. Drittal" signature is on the order form dated 1/27/63 for the Smith & Wesson .38 pistol, not for the MC rifle. (The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald, p. 60.)

Alek James Hidell's Selective Service card is on p. 67 of TSFLHO. But the card is not completely filled out, containing only his name, signature, and SS No. The name and number both appear to have been retyped over smudged erasures. It's almost as if an effort was made to give the card the appearance of a sloppy fake. It is undated, and the place for a member or clerk of the board to sign is blank, though some signature looks very faintly visible, as if erased (cleanly, no smudge at all) or like a very poor carbon copy of something looks. Though illegible, it doesn't look like Gut Hoffen. It looks to me like it may have been two words beginning with capitals L and J.

I didn't find a draft card from 1960 in the book.

[Tom Kutzer]

the "Gut Hoffen" sig.....

spot.acorn.net/ jfkplace/03/JD/JD-G.html

[Mark Knight]

Here's the direct route:

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JD/G/07.gif

Edited August 8, 2005 by Mark Knight

[Ron Ecker]

That's apparently the 1960 Oswald draft card that Greg referred to. And the signature is so scribbled it looks like it can be read two ways: It can say Gut Hoffen, or it can say Gut Schiffer.

Again, the Hidell draft card as shown in TSFLHO has no legible sig and no date. And FWIW the SS number is 43 224 39 532, the last five digits being the same as on the Oswald card.

The Hidell card also has Oswald's photo (real draft cards did not include photos), to add to the phoniness that was apparently meant to be obvious.

[Jim Root]

Ron, Greg

The draft card shown may be a lgegitimate card for Lee Harvey Oswald. I could accept the fact that a man who officially got out of the Marines on Sept. 11, 1959 may not have had his "new" draft card issued till perhaps Feb. 4, 1960. This card would be issued only after his local draft board would have been notified of a change in circumstances for the bearer of the card. I would assume that card would have been sent to his mother and he may have obtained it when he returned to the US.

The reason I believe that this is a plausible explanation for this card is the "IV-A" classification. This classification is for "Registrant with sufficient prior active service or who is a sole surviving son." Oswald would fall into this category.

In 1960's America it was not unusual for employers to request a man of "draft age" for his draft card. If a person was "draft bait" (likly to be drafted soon) they would be less likely to hire and train them for a job of substance. A person who had completed their time in the military or was not subject to military service would have a better chance of attaining employment.

A draft card for an alias would also be needed for the same reason.

Jim Root

[George Bollschweiler]

"Hoffen" is German for "luck".

Hi Greg,

"hoffen" does not mean luck, it means" to hope", luck in german is "Glück".

George

[Antti Hynonen]

George Bollschweiler Posted Today, 06:45 AM

  QUOTE

"Hoffen" is German for "luck".

Hi Greg,

"hoffen" does not mean luck, it means" to hope", luck in german is "Glück".

George

Danke Herr Bollschweiler,

Endlich jemand der Deutsch kann.

George, what do you think of the "Gut Schieffer". Do you agree it could have meant "Gut Schiesser" or grammatically perhaps more correct "Guter Schiesser".

Sometimes in "old writing" the S letter will look like a F.

Oder nicht?

Thanks!

[George Bollschweiler]

George, what do you think of the "Gut Schieffer". Do you agree it could have meant "Gut Schiesser" or grammatically perhaps more correct "Guter Schiesser".

Sometimes in "old writing" the S letter will look like a F.

Oder nicht?

Hi Antti

I think you're absolutely right, as the old "s" looks like "f" and can easily be mistaken as a "f". As you sugguested, it could mean "good shooter", something that would point to LHO's sharp-shooter training in the marines.

as a good example, on the last line the first word is Unterstützung means support.

George

Edited October 5, 2005 by George Bollschweiler

[Ron Ecker]

If the card is legit, as Jim suggests, it would not have a prank signature. I think we may be reading a "Gut" that isn't there. If legit, the card was apparently signed by someone whose first name began with a G and who had a German surname.

Ron

[John Dolva]

George, what do you think of the "Gut Schieffer". Do you agree it could have meant "Gut Schiesser" or grammatically perhaps more correct "Guter Schiesser".

Sometimes in "old writing" the S letter will look like a F.

Oder nicht?

Hi Antti

I think you're absolutely right, the "ß" stands for "ss" and can easily be mistaken as a "f". As you sugguested, it could mean "good shooter", something that would point to LHO's sharp-shooter training in the marines.

George

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

G . I . Issue ?

[George Bollschweiler]

G . I . Issue ?

Hi John

as you see, I've edited my post on that "f" matter but I didn't get your part

George