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LBJ, Ed Clark and Mac Wallace


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#1 Paul Jeffery

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 02:47 AM

This is my first post on this Forum, so I'd like to start with a few general points about my thoughts on the JFK assassination.

1.I believe that LBJ, Ed Clark and Mac Wallace were key conspirators.

2.That Oswald was never meant to be arrested-most likely he was to be killed or less likely helped to escape.

3.That elements of the CIA and Mafia were involved along with Cubans attached to the CIA.

4.That J.Edgar Hoover was responsible in part for the coverup, knowing full-well what had really happened.


My main areas of interest (everyone has their own key areas!):

1.Who shot what and from where in Dealey PLaza.

2.Oswald's movements from after the shooting until his arrest. This is partly fuelled by John Armostrong's '2 Oswalds' research, which I find compelling.

3.The Tippit shooting.

4.The autopsy and the possibility of changes made to the body. Dave Lifton's 'Best Evidence' and Paul O'Connor's testimony.

5.Suspicious deaths of key witnesses or those with knowledge. I would particularly like to know more about the deaths of Clint Peoples and Richard Case Nagel if anyone has any information.

My thoughts on JFK web-forums and fellow researchers:

There seems to be a large amount of in-fighting and arrogance amongst folk on the message boards-though I have not had chance to view this one yet! I think the sharing of information is important and by bringing like-minded people together it is surely for the greater good of learning and understanding the case.

I intend to post more specific comments in the near future, but would welcome any initial comment to set the ball rolling.

#2 John Simkin

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 06:38 AM

1.I believe that LBJ, Ed Clark and Mac Wallace were key conspirators.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Welcome to the Forum. The topic of Mac Wallace has been looked at before on the Forum. See JFK Index:

http://educationforu...?showtopic=4311

Larry Hancock's work is especially worth reading:

http://educationforu...?showtopic=2321

http://educationforu...?showtopic=2326

I would argue that the link between Mac Wallace (1) and the TSBD suggests that Johnson was not involved in the conspiracy to kill Kennedy (but evidence of why he needed to take part in the cover-up).

Let us imagine that in 1963 Johnson decided that it would be in his best interests to have Kennedy removed from power. How would he have done this? He would almost certainly have used someone else to organize the assassination. If I had to guess who this might be, I would have thought it was someone like Fred Black (2). This person would have used people who had no connection at all with Johnson. The last person that they would have employed would have been Malcolm Wallace, a convicted murderer, who had links to Johnson via Billie Sol Estes (3).
Notes

(1) http://www.spartacus...JFKwallaceM.htm

(2) http://www.spartacus...k/JFKbakerF.htm

(3) http://www.spartacus...uk/JFKestes.htm

#3 James Richards

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 06:56 AM

The last person that they would have employed would have been Malcolm Wallace, a convicted murderer, who had links to Johnson via Billie Sol Estes (3). (John Simkin)

Agreed, John. And Wallace was about as sloppy a hitman as one could imagine.

I think we need to look at Loy Factor's story very closely here and the real possibility that Wallace and a young Cuban couple were an operating cell being managed by the plotters. Wallace's presence being to guarantee Johnson played ball.

James

#4 Tim Gratz

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 02:27 PM

And play ball he did.

It is my theory that the conspirators were astute enough to lay out the nuclear holocaust scenario that LBJ used successfully in selling the cover-up to Earl Warren and others.

#5 Tim Gratz

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 02:30 PM

I disagree with Paul that LBJ was a conspirator. I think it is possible the conspirators forewarned him of the assassination (and I suspect within twenty-four hours before). J. Edgar Hoover had no clue. His interest was protecting the reputation of the FBI.

#6 John Simkin

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 03:40 PM

I disagree with Paul that LBJ was a conspirator.  I think it is possible the conspirators forewarned him of the assassination (and I suspect within twenty-four hours before).  J. Edgar Hoover had no clue.  His interest was protecting the reputation of the FBI.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Why would Fidel Castro/KGB do that?

#7 Nic Martin

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 10:10 PM

I think it's naive to assume that Hoover, Johnson, and basically every other high-ranking government official were just the Good Guys fooled into it by the Bad Guys. If they were such knights in shining armor, why were they so easy to blackmail or shush up?..

#8 Paul Jeffery

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 01:58 AM

Thank you all of you who replied to my first post. It's nice to know there is a forum where sensible debate takes place.

John-I will look at the links you provided-I am not familiar with Fred Black, that is useful to me and one of the reasons I joined-to find out new information/characters.

I have come across the counter-arguments for Wallace and/or LBj's involvement. The debate over the how and why of Wallace's participation emphasise the frustrating nature of the JFK assassination. All the waters are muddied, we are indeed 'through the looking glass'. Every scenario has at least 2 contrasting angles.

I have to say I find it far-fetched to believe that Wallace was somehow strategically placed to force Johnson's hand. I accept that he was rather obvious as a conspiracy candidate but if you look at the Henry Marshall killing, we find the same pattern of events: Johnson in trouble, Clark the orchestrator, Wallace the hitman. I see no reason why the same chain of events could not occur on 22/11/63.

Suppose hyperthetically that LBJ/Clark were behind the murder. Who would they trust enough to execute(at least in part) the plot? A mercenary? A hired gun? Mafia? CIA agents with government links? Perhaps it was better to play safe and use a man who was under their complete control and influence. Wallace was cleared of the Kinsner murder, but it came at a price-his independence. He was thereafter a pawn of LBJ/Clark sculdugery. Another 'outsider' could have been un-trustworthy, with questionable loyalty. Somehow 'better the devil you know'. OK, he might have been caught, but the plan was that he would escape-and he did.

I may be guilty of reading too much into Barr McClellan's 'Blood,Money and Power' book-a much maligned publication. I accept he makes conclusions where he has no factual backup, but I do believe the jist of what he says.

Jack Ruby also thought so: on www.jfkmurdersolved.com check the clip where he accuses 'the man in office' of participating. Maybe he too was speculating, but it is hard to argue he must have had a fair idea who was behind the murder. Unless he really did kill Oswald impulsively.....

These are only the views of a JFK buff, I do not wish to be drawn into any protracted arguments. There are many other specific issues I intend to raise. Thank you all of you for your replies!

#9 Nic Martin

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 07:57 AM

When Castro took power in Cuba, he shut down mob casinos & heroin pipelines - which cost the mob millions of dollars. If the government was going to assassinate it's commander, having "Oswald" visit Cuba to lay the blame at Castro's feet would whip up public support of an invasion of Cuba, to overthrow Castro & let the mob get their footholdings back.

That's not even mentioning that they protected Joe Sr from death threats in the 1930's and were RUMORED TO have helped in the election ( although everyone knows they did ), and then RFK went after the REPUBLICAN mob..

The mob had every reason to want Kennedy dead, and the mob could do it where it'd never be solved. If LBJ & his buddies had gone to the mob, they wouldn't have said no.

I don't doubt the involvement of Clark & Wallace, but if they were in the Plaza, they weren't shooters IMO.

#10 Paul Jeffery

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 02:36 AM

Hi Nic,

hope you're nowhere near Rita.


I've always had a problem with the position of Cuba as a motive and 'pastsy' in the case. This is mainly because Cuba was not invaded. Indeed, US defence policy shifted very quickly towards Vietnam. If the plan was for Castro to be blamed, Cuba invaded, and the Mafia let back in-why did this not happen?

I'm certain there were people who wanted this to happen. David Atlee Phillips/CIA for one. But this could have been merely disinformation- from a reputed expert. Also after reading Anthony Summers' 'Kennedy Conspiracy' I'm not so sure JFK was soft on Cuba. There is strong evidence he and RFK were supporting plots for Castro to be killed.

Problem is, everyone has a motive. But not many had the means to cover it up....

#11 Tim Gratz

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 04:45 AM

I also do not believe the objective of the plotters was to prompt an invasion of Cuba.

I suspect the plotters may have employed a seemingly pro-Castroite as the patsy so they could persuade LBJ to effectuate the cover-up by using the fear of war scenario. But I also suspect the plotters guaranteed LBJ's participation in tyhe cover-up by threatening to expose his political corruption, and possibly by planting the Wallace fingerprint.

I am quite confident there was significant organized crime involvement and I suspect the LBJ blackmail may have been conveyed by Jack Halfen, the "bagman" for Carlos Marcello who had reputedly been delivering Marcello cash to LBJ for years.

Edited by Tim Gratz, 24 September 2005 - 04:47 AM.


#12 Gerry Hemming

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 09:17 PM

I disagree with Paul that LBJ was a conspirator.  I think it is possible the conspirators forewarned him of the assassination (and I suspect within twenty-four hours before).  J. Edgar Hoover had no clue.  His interest was protecting the reputation of the FBI.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Why would Fidel Castro/KGB do that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

----------------------

John:

NOT the KGB [or the MVD], but the GRU. You can find [on the Web] the evidence that KGB boss Semichastny thwarted the plot by the GRU boss to assassinate Krushchev even before "Op/Anadyr"; and was counseled that "...We will remove him by political means..." -- which they did soon after the JFK murder.

Cheers,

GPH
------------------
"What, me worry !!" -- Alfred E. Neumann, 1953.
_____________________________

#13 Nic Martin

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 11:05 PM

I don't insist that Cuba was meant to be a patsy, pure speculation, nothing more. Maybe that's how the government got the mafia involved, then abandoned the Cuban-invasion idea after the mob did their part.

#14 Tim Gratz

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 04:32 AM

Nic wrtote:

That's not even mentioning that they protected Joe Sr from death threats in the 1930's and were RUMORED TO have helped in the election ( although everyone knows they did ), and then RFK went after the REPUBLICAN mob..

Nic, what I am aware of is a story that Giancana protected Joe Sr. in the mid fifties after Joe, Sr. had double crossed Frank Costello in a New York real estate deal. But some doubt that story.

What is your knowledge about threats to Joe, Sr. in the fifties?

#15 Nic Martin

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 06:51 AM

Nic wrtote:

That's not even mentioning that they protected Joe Sr from death threats in the 1930's and were RUMORED TO have helped in the election ( although everyone knows they did ), and then RFK went after the REPUBLICAN mob..

Nic, what I am aware of is a story that Giancana protected Joe Sr. in the mid fifties after Joe, Sr. had double crossed Frank Costello in a New York real estate deal.  But some doubt that story.

What is your knowledge about threats to Joe, Sr. in the fifties?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It's been established before that Joe was deeply involved in bootlegging since the beginning of Prohibition. JPK reportedly sought out Costello for help, where JPK would ship the liquor to the U.S.

I believe it was in The Dark Side of Camelot where a "Senior Kennedy aide" is quoted as saying that Costello tried to get JPK to invest in a slot machine company, but JPK wouldn't - which was a good thing as the firm making them was controlled by Capone. When one of JPK's workers ( a hot-shot lawyer ) was shot outside a mafia hotspot in Chicago, JPK began organizing a sale of his liquor-importing company.

I've found that Costello felt he was owed a favor by JPK, which JPK felt he was too good to pay back. At first, I figured that this had something to do with Costello having been like a 2nd father to Sinatra, and Sinatra's contacts with the election, etc. However, I remember reading somewhere that Costello was angry with JPK over this broken favor in 1956, and JPK pleaded with Momo to protect him, and swore that JFK would be in his pocket forever - that he'd never go behind his back, etc.

In all the books I've read, I can't find concrete evidence of what the "favor" was, and considering it was mob-related, if it's been documented at all, it was probably destroyed or locked up in a govt. vault somewhere. I'll look through my materials again when I get more time.

However, back to the thread subject now.




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