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#16 Miles Scull

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 10:44 PM

One of the most bizzare instances during John Kennedy's assassination was the testimony of Dallas Police detective Roger Craig while he was examining a bullet mark on the pavement near the triple underpass. While over by the underpass he witnessed a cream colored Nash Station wagon with a luggage rack moving down the street very slowly when he saw a man who he later claimed was Lee Harvey Oswald enter the passenger side of the vehicle and drive off. His exact words are.


Mr. CRAIG - I saw a light-colored station wagon, driving real slow, coming west on Elm Street from Houston. Uh-- actually, it was nearly in line with him. And the driver was leaning to his right looking up the hill at the man running down.
Mr. BELIN - Uh-huh.
Mr. CRAIG - And the station wagon stopped almost directly across from me. And--uh--the man continued down the hill and got in the station wagon. And I attempted to cross the street. I wanted to talk to both of them. But the---uh--traffic was so heavy I couldn't get across the street. And--uh--they were gone before I could---
Mr. BELIN - Where did the station wagon head?
Mr. CRAIG - West on Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN - Under the triple underpass?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Could you describe the man that you saw running down toward the station wagon?
Mr. CRAIG - Oh, he was a white male in his twenties, five nine, five eight, something like that; about 140 to 150; had kind of medium brown sandy hair--you know, it was like it'd been blown--you know, he'd been in the wind or something--it was all wild-looking; had on--uh--blue trousers--
Mr. BELIN - What shade of blue? Dark blue, medium or light?
Mr. CRAIG - No; medium, probably; I'd say medium. And, a--uh--light tan shirt, as I remember it.
Mr. BELIN - Anything else about him?
Mr. CRAIG - No; nothing except that he looked like he was in an awful hurry.


Then later in his testimony Det. Craig describes the car.

Mr. BELIN - What kind and what color station wagon was it?
Mr. CRAIG - It was light colored--almost--uh--it looked white to me.
Mr. BELIN - What model or make was it?
Mr. CRAIG - I thought it was a Nash.
Mr. BELIN - Why would you think it was a Nash?
Mr. CRAIG - Because it had a built-in luggage rack on 'the top. And--uh--at the time, this was the only type car I could fit with that type luggage rack.
Mr. BELIN - A Nash Rambler-is that what you're referring to?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes; with a rack on the the back portion of the car, you know.
Mr. BELIN - Did it have a Texas license plate, or not?
Mr. CRAIG - It had the same color. I couldn't see the--uh--name with the numbers on it. I could just barely make them out. They were at an angle where I couldn't make the numbers of the--uh--any of the writing on it. But---uh---I'm sure it was a Texas plate.
Mr. BELIN - Anything else about this incident that you can recall?
Mr. CRAIG - No; not that---

Then later at the Police Station after Lee Harvey Oswald's arrest Det. Craig identifies Oswald as the same person that he saw entering the Station Wagon in Dealy Plaza earlier.



Mr. CRAIG - I drove up to Fritz' office about, oh, after 5--about 5:30 or something like that--and--uh--talked to Captain Fritz and told him what I had saw. And he took me in his office---I believe it was his office---it was a little office, and had the suspect setting in a chair behind a desk---beside the desk. And another gentleman, I didn't know him, he was sitting in another chair to my left as I walked in the office.
And Captain Fritz asked me was this the man I saw--and I said, "Yes," it was.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Will you describe the man you saw in Captain Fritz' office?
Mr. CRAIG - Oh, he was sitting down but--uh--he had the same medium brown hair; it was still--well, it was kinda wild looking; he was slender, and--uh-- what 1 could toll of him sitting there, he was--uh---short. By that, I mean not--myself, I'm five eleven--he was shorter than I was. And--uh--fairly light build.
Mr. BELIN - Could you see his trousers?
Mr. CRAIG - No; I couldn't see his trousers at all.
Mr. BELIN - What about his shirt?
Mr. CRAIG - I believe, as close as I can remember, a T-shirt--a white T-shirt.
Mr. BELIN - All right. But you didn't see him in a lineup? You just saw him sitting there?
Mr. CRAIG - No; he was sitting there by himself in a chair--off to one side.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Then, what did Captain Fritz say and what did you say and what did the suspect say?
Mr. CRAIG - Captain Fritz then asked him about the---uh---he said, "What about this station wagon?"
And the suspect interrupted him and said, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine"---I believe is what he said. "Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."
And--uh--Captain Fritz then told him, as close as I can remember, that, "All we're trying to do is find out what happened, and this man saw you leave from the scene."
And the suspect again interrupted Captain Fritz and said, "I told you people I did." And--uh--yeah--then, he said--then he continued and he said, "Everybody will know who I am now."
And he was leaning over the desk. At this time, he had risen partially out of the chair and leaning over the desk, looking directly at Captain Fritz.
Mr. BELIN - What was he wearing-or could you see the color of his trousers as he leaned over the desk?
Mr. CRAIG - No; because he never--he just leaned up, you know, sort of forward--not actually up, just out of his chair like that (indicating) forward.
Mr. BELIN - Then, did you say anything more?
Mr. CRAIG - No; I then left.
Mr. BELIN - Well, in other words, the only thing you ever said was, "This was the man,"--or words to that effect?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes.


So later on Det. Craig describes how Buddy Walters went to Ruth Paine's house and saw the station wagon parked in Ruth Paines driveway.




Mr. BELIN - Anything else in connection with the assassination that you think might be important that we haven't discussed here?
Mr. CRAIG - No; except--uh--except for the fact that it came out later that Mrs. Paine does own a station wagon and--uh--it has a luggage rack on top. And this came out, of course, later, after I got back to the office. I didn't know about this. Buddy Walthers brought it up. I believe they went by the house and the car was parked in the driveway.


Where things start getting real strange is where Buddy Walters after going to Ruth Paine's home describes this encounter.


Mr. WALTHERS. Yes; and I took our officer, Harry Weatherford, and we met Officer Adamcik that works for the city and Officer Rose and another one of their officers, but I don't recall his name right now--at this address in Irving and when we went to the door, what turned out to be Mrs. Paine just as soon as we stepped on the porch, she said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you, and we didn't have any trouble at all--we just went right on in and stared asking her--at that time it didn't appear that her or Mrs. Oswald, or Marina, who came up carrying one of the babies in the living room--it didn't appear that they knew that Oswald had been arrested at all--the way they talked.
Mr. LIEBELER. How do you account for the fact that Mrs. Paine said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you?"
Mr. WALTHERS. I don't know--to this day, I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you sure that's what she said?
Mr. WALTHERS. I know that's what she said.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Paine said that?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes, sir; she said, "Come on in, we have been expecting you."


So what is going on here? Why would she say that if she didn't know that Lee Harvey Oswald had been arrested yet? The information about Oswald being arrested had not even been on television so far at that point. If somebody called Ruth Paine maybe a little bit earlier and told her about the assassination . It still doesn't explain why she was pretending that she didn't know about it as Walters describes above? What is equally strange is when Det. Adamchick( who was there also) describes how Linnie Mae Randle shows up right on cue with the "curtain rod" story to make sure that "all" the police detectives could hear about it!



Mr. ADAMCIK. Coming back, Mrs. Frazier, I believe it was, drove up to the house as I was coming back with--no, it was Mrs. Bill Randle. She (Mrs. Randle) was a neighbor there and she was driving up to the house, so I asked her whether she knew anything about what had happened, and whether she had seen Lee Oswald, and she did tell me that Lee Oswald rode to work with her brother, which is Wesley Frazier, who was staying with her, and he rode to work with him that morning. She told me that she saw--she was up early in the morning and was drinking coffee, and saw Lee Harvey Oswald go across the front yard, across the yard carrying like a long package wrapped in something, carrying it from the Paine house to Wesley's car.
Mr. BELIN. Did she say how he was carrying the package?
Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she didn't. I think we got an affidavit. In fact, I know we did, but I didn't take it.
Mr. BELIN. Did she say about how long the package was?
Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she said it was long and wrapped in a paper or a box. That is all I remember her saying.


It seems that we have a little problem here in river city. What is going on here? Well when Wesley Frazier testified to the Commission he told them that people in this neighborhood kind of keep to themselves. They don't associate much!

Their is another small problem with Linnie Mae Randle's account of the events mentioned above. She says that she saw Oswald walk across her yard but the next day she told the FBI.

RANDLE stated that about 7:15 a.m., November 22, 1963, she looked out of a window of her residence and observed LEE HARVEY OSWALD walking up her driveway and saw him put a long brown package, approximately 3 feet by 6 inches, in the back seat area of WESLEY FRAZIER's 1954 black Chevrolet four door automobile. Thereafter, she observed OSWALD walk to the front, or entrance area, of her residence where he waited for FRAZIER to come out of the house and give him a ride to work.

WHICH ONE IS IT? WALKING ACROSS HER YARD OR WALKING UP HER DRIVEWAY?

Another problem in Linnie Mae Randal's account appears when Westly Frazier testifies before the Commission that he and his mother saw Oswald just appear in the window.

Mr. FRAZIER - I was sitting there eating my breakfast there, so sitting there, I usually talk to my little nieces, you know, they have them cartoons on for a while and we usually talk a little bit back and forth while eating breakfast and I was just finishing my coffee there and my sister, you know, was working over there around, you know the sink there, and she was fixing my lunch so she was somewhere around there over on the cabinets fixing the cabinets and mother just happened to glance up and saw this man, you know, who was Lee looking in the window for me and she said, "Who is that?"
And I said, "That is Lee," and naturally he just walked around and so I thought he just walked around there on the carport right there close to the door and so I told her I had to go, so I went in there and brushed my teeth right quick and come through there and I usually have my coat laying somewhere on the chair and picked it up and put it on and by that time my sister had my lunch, you know, in a sack and sitting over there on the washer where I picked it up right there by the door and I just walked on out and we got in the car.

So according to Frazier Linnie May Randle just happened to "glance up" as Oswald just happened to appear in the window! So she never saw him walk across her yard or up her driveway did she? She was sitting at the table having breakfast with her son. Frazier also testified to the Commission that Oswald did not take any lunch that day but when they got to the Texas School Book Depositoy building he saw Oswald walk in the building with a package of "curtain rods" but when Jack Dougherty saw Oswald enter the building he said that Oswald was carrying nothing in his hands! So where were the curtain rods?

This whole thing sounds a little shakey to me?


Mark,

The WCR altered Craig's deposition to hide the true facts & to concoct the LN rubbish. Craig writes:


I first saw my testimony in January of 1968 when I looked at the 26 volumes which belonged to Penn Jones. My alleged statement was included. The following are some of the changes in my testimony:


Arnold Rowland told me that he saw two men on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository 15 minutes before the President arrived: one was a Negro, who was pacing back and forth by the southwest window. The other was a white man in the southeast corner, with a rifle equipped with a scope, and that a few minutes later he looked back and only the white man was there. In the Warren Commission: Both were white, both were pacing in front of the southwest corner and when Rowland looked back, both were gone;

I said the Rambler station wagon was light green. The Warren Commission: Changed to a white station wagon;

I said the driver of the Station Wagon had on a tan jacket. The Warren Commission: A white jacket;

I said the license plates on the Rambler were not the same color as Texas plates. The Warren Commission: Omitted the not -- omitted but one word, an important one, so that it appeared that the license plates were the same color as Texas plates;

I said that I got a good look at the driver of the Rambler. The Warren Commission: I did not get a good look at the Rambler. (In Captain Fritz's office) I had said that Fritz had said to Oswald, "This man saw you leave" (indicating me). Oswald said, "I told you people I did." Fritz then said, "Now take it easy, son, we're just trying to find out what happened", and then (to Oswald), "What about the car?" to which Oswald replied, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to drag her into this." Fritz said car -- station wagon was not mentioned by anyone but Oswald. (I had told Fritz over the telephone that I saw a man get into a station wagon, before I went to the Dallas Police Department and I had also described the man. This is when Fritz asked me to come there.) Oswald then said, "Everybody will know who I am now;" the Warren Commission: Stated that the last statement by Oswald was made in a dramatic tone. This was not so. The Warren Commission also printed, "NOW everybody will know who I am", transposing the now. Oswald's tone and attitude was one of disappointment. If someone were attempting to conceal his identity as Deputy and he was found out, exposed -- his cover blown, his reaction would be dismay and disappointment. This was Oswald's tone and attitude -- disappointment at being exposed!

http://www.ratical.o.../JFK/WTKaP.html

#17 Michael Hogan

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 11:29 PM

According to John Armstrong:


Marvin Robinson was driving his Cadillac west on Elm Street, directly behind the Nash Rambler station wagon. After crossing Houston he drove past the TSBD and almost slammed into the back of the Nash Rambler when it suddenly stopped. Robinson noticed a white male hurry down the grass covered incline and enter the station wagon. He then followed the car as it drove under the triple overpass.

Marvin Robinson's employee, Roy Cooper, was following him in a different vehicle. Cooper remembered the Nash Rambler stopped so suddenly that Robinson narrowly avoided running into the back of the car. Cooper saw a white male between 20 and 30 years of age wave at the driver, hurry toward the car, and enter the vehicle.

Authors note: The FBI interviewed Marvin Robinson and Roy Cooper but they never testified before the Warren Commission nor were their statements published in the Warren Volumes.

Mrs. Helen Forrest saw a young man run from the side of the TSBD and enter a Nash Rambler station wagon on Elm Street. Mrs. Forrest said, "If it wasn't Oswald, it was his identical twin." (Interview with Michael Kurtz, 1974)



#18 Thomas Graves

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 12:27 PM

One of the most bizarre instances during John Kennedy's assassination was the testimony of Dallas Police detective Roger Craig while he was examining a bullet mark on the pavement near the triple underpass. While over by the underpass he witnessed a cream colored Nash Station wagon with a luggage rack moving down the street very slowly when he saw a man who he later claimed was Lee Harvey Oswald enter the passenger side of the vehicle and drive off. His exact words are.


Mr. CRAIG - I saw a light-colored station wagon, driving real slow, coming west on Elm Street from Houston. Uh-- actually, it was nearly in line with him. And the driver was leaning to his right looking up the hill at the man running down.
Mr. BELIN - Uh-huh.
Mr. CRAIG - And the station wagon stopped almost directly across from me. And--uh--the man continued down the hill and got in the station wagon. And I attempted to cross the street. I wanted to talk to both of them. But the---uh--traffic was so heavy I couldn't get across the street. And--uh--they were gone before I could---
Mr. BELIN - Where did the station wagon head?
Mr. CRAIG - West on Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN - Under the triple underpass?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Could you describe the man that you saw running down toward the station wagon?
Mr. CRAIG - Oh, he was a white male in his twenties, five nine, five eight, something like that; about 140 to 150; had kind of medium brown sandy hair--you know, it was like it'd been blown--you know, he'd been in the wind or something--it was all wild-looking; had on--uh--blue trousers--
Mr. BELIN - What shade of blue? Dark blue, medium or light?
Mr. CRAIG - No; medium, probably; I'd say medium. And, a--uh--light tan shirt, as I remember it.
Mr. BELIN - Anything else about him?
Mr. CRAIG - No; nothing except that he looked like he was in an awful hurry.


Then later in his testimony Det. Craig describes the car.

Mr. BELIN - What kind and what color station wagon was it?
Mr. CRAIG - It was light colored--almost--uh--it looked white to me.
Mr. BELIN - What model or make was it?
Mr. CRAIG - I thought it was a Nash.
Mr. BELIN - Why would you think it was a Nash?
Mr. CRAIG - Because it had a built-in luggage rack on 'the top. And--uh--at the time, this was the only type car I could fit with that type luggage rack.
Mr. BELIN - A Nash Rambler-is that what you're referring to?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes; with a rack on the the back portion of the car, you know.
Mr. BELIN - Did it have a Texas license plate, or not?
Mr. CRAIG - It had the same color. I couldn't see the--uh--name with the numbers on it. I could just barely make them out. They were at an angle where I couldn't make the numbers of the--uh--any of the writing on it. But---uh---I'm sure it was a Texas plate.
Mr. BELIN - Anything else about this incident that you can recall?
Mr. CRAIG - No; not that---

Then later at the Police Station after Lee Harvey Oswald's arrest Det. Craig identifies Oswald as the same person that he saw entering the Station Wagon in Dealy Plaza earlier.



Mr. CRAIG - I drove up to Fritz' office about, oh, after 5--about 5:30 or something like that--and--uh--talked to Captain Fritz and told him what I had saw. And he took me in his office---I believe it was his office---it was a little office, and had the suspect setting in a chair behind a desk---beside the desk. And another gentleman, I didn't know him, he was sitting in another chair to my left as I walked in the office.
And Captain Fritz asked me was this the man I saw--and I said, "Yes," it was.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Will you describe the man you saw in Captain Fritz' office?
Mr. CRAIG - Oh, he was sitting down but--uh--he had the same medium brown hair; it was still--well, it was kinda wild looking; he was slender, and--uh-- what I could tell of him sitting there, he was--uh---short. By that, I mean not--myself, I'm five eleven--he was shorter than I was. And--uh--fairly light build.
Mr. BELIN - Could you see his trousers?
Mr. CRAIG - No; I couldn't see his trousers at all.
Mr. BELIN - What about his shirt?
Mr. CRAIG - I believe, as close as I can remember, a T-shirt--a white T-shirt.
Mr. BELIN - All right. But you didn't see him in a lineup? You just saw him sitting there?
Mr. CRAIG - No; he was sitting there by himself in a chair--off to one side.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Then, what did Captain Fritz say and what did you say and what did the suspect say?
Mr. CRAIG - Captain Fritz then asked him about the---uh---he said, "What about this station wagon?"
And the suspect interrupted him and said, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine"---I believe is what he said. "Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."
And--uh--Captain Fritz then told him, as close as I can remember, that, "All we're trying to do is find out what happened, and this man saw you leave from the scene."
And the suspect again interrupted Captain Fritz and said, "I told you people I did." And--uh--yeah--then, he said--then he continued and he said, "Everybody will know who I am now."
And he was leaning over the desk. At this time, he had risen partially out of the chair and leaning over the desk, looking directly at Captain Fritz.
Mr. BELIN - What was he wearing-or could you see the color of his trousers as he leaned over the desk?
Mr. CRAIG - No; because he never--he just leaned up, you know, sort of forward--not actually up, just out of his chair like that (indicating) forward.
Mr. BELIN - Then, did you say anything more?
Mr. CRAIG - No; I then left.
Mr. BELIN - Well, in other words, the only thing you ever said was, "This was the man,"--or words to that effect?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes.


So later on Det. Craig describes how Buddy Walters went to Ruth Paine's house and saw the station wagon parked in Ruth Paine's driveway.




Mr. BELIN - Anything else in connection with the assassination that you think might be important that we haven't discussed here?
Mr. CRAIG - No; except--uh--except for the fact that it came out later that Mrs. Paine does own a station wagon and--uh--it has a luggage rack on top. And this came out, of course, later, after I got back to the office. I didn't know about this. Buddy Walthers brought it up. I believe they went by the house and the car was parked in the driveway.


Where things start getting real strange is where Buddy Walters after going to Ruth Paine's home describes this encounter.


Mr. WALTHERS. Yes; and I took our officer, Harry Weatherford, and we met Officer Adamcik that works for the city and Officer Rose and another one of their officers, but I don't recall his name right now--at this address in Irving and when we went to the door, what turned out to be Mrs. Paine just as soon as we stepped on the porch, she said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you, and we didn't have any trouble at all--we just went right on in and stared asking her--at that time it didn't appear that her or Mrs. Oswald, or Marina, who came up carrying one of the babies in the living room--it didn't appear that they knew that Oswald had been arrested at all--the way they talked.
Mr. LIEBELER. How do you account for the fact that Mrs. Paine said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you?"
Mr. WALTHERS. I don't know--to this day, I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you sure that's what she said?
Mr. WALTHERS. I know that's what she said.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Paine said that?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes, sir; she said, "Come on in, we have been expecting you."


So what is going on here? Why would she say that if she didn't know that Lee Harvey Oswald had been arrested yet? The information about Oswald being arrested had not even been on television so far at that point. If somebody called Ruth Paine maybe a little bit earlier and told her about the assassination . It still doesn't explain why she was pretending that she didn't know about it as Walters describes above? What is equally strange is when Det. Adamcik( who was there also) describes how Linnie Mae Randle shows up right on cue with the "curtain rod" story to make sure that "all" the police detectives could hear about it!



Mr. ADAMCIK. Coming back, Mrs. Frazier, I believe it was, drove up to the house as I was coming back with--no, it was Mrs. Bill Randle. She (Mrs. Randle) was a neighbor there and she was driving up to the house, so I asked her whether she knew anything about what had happened, and whether she had seen Lee Oswald, and she did tell me that Lee Oswald rode to work with her brother, which is Wesley Frazier, who was staying with her, and he rode to work with him that morning. She told me that she saw--she was up early in the morning and was drinking coffee, and saw Lee Harvey Oswald go across the front yard, across the yard carrying like a long package wrapped in something, carrying it from the Paine house to Wesley's car.
Mr. BELIN. Did she say how he was carrying the package?
Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she didn't. I think we got an affidavit. In fact, I know we did, but I didn't take it.
Mr. BELIN. Did she say about how long the package was?
Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she said it was long and wrapped in a paper or a box. That is all I remember her saying.


It seems that we have a little problem here in river city. What is going on here? Well when Wesley Frazier testified to the Commission he told them that people in this neighborhood kind of keep to themselves. They don't associate much!

Their is another small problem with Linnie Mae Randle's account of the events mentioned above. She says that she saw Oswald walk across her yard but the next day she told the FBI.

RANDLE stated that about 7:15 a.m., November 22, 1963, she looked out of a window of her residence and observed LEE HARVEY OSWALD walking up her driveway and saw him put a long brown package, approximately 3 feet by 6 inches, in the back seat area of WESLEY FRAZIER's 1954 black Chevrolet four door automobile. Thereafter, she observed OSWALD walk to the front, or entrance area, of her residence where he waited for FRAZIER to come out of the house and give him a ride to work.

WHICH ONE IS IT? WALKING ACROSS HER YARD OR WALKING UP HER DRIVEWAY?

Another problem in Linnie Mae Randal's account appears when Westly Frazier testifies before the Commission that he and his mother saw Oswald just appear in the window.

Mr. FRAZIER - I was sitting there eating my breakfast there, so sitting there, I usually talk to my little nieces, you know, they have them cartoons on for a while and we usually talk a little bit back and forth while eating breakfast and I was just finishing my coffee there and my sister, you know, was working over there around, you know the sink there, and she was fixing my lunch so she was somewhere around there over on the cabinets fixing the cabinets and mother just happened to glance up and saw this man, you know, who was Lee looking in the window for me and she said, "Who is that?"
And I said, "That is Lee," and naturally he just walked around and so I thought he just walked around there on the carport right there close to the door and so I told her I had to go, so I went in there and brushed my teeth right quick and come through there and I usually have my coat laying somewhere on the chair and picked it up and put it on and by that time my sister had my lunch, you know, in a sack and sitting over there on the washer where I picked it up right there by the door and I just walked on out and we got in the car.

So according to Frazier Linnie May Randle just happened to "glance up" as Oswald just happened to appear in the window! So she never saw him walk across her yard or up her driveway did she? She was sitting at the table having breakfast with her son. Frazier also testified to the Commission that Oswald did not take any lunch that day but when they got to the Texas School Book Depository building he saw Oswald walk in the building with a package of "curtain rods" but when Jack Dougherty saw Oswald enter the building he said that Oswald was carrying nothing in his hands! So where were the curtain rods?

This whole thing sounds a little shaky to me?


Mark,

The WCR altered Craig's deposition to hide the true facts & to concoct the LN rubbish. Craig writes:


I first saw my testimony in January of 1968 when I looked at the 26 volumes which belonged to Penn Jones. My alleged statement was included. The following are some of the changes in my testimony:


Arnold Rowland told me that he saw two men on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository 15 minutes before the President arrived: one was a Negro, who was pacing back and forth by the southwest window. The other was a white man in the southeast corner, with a rifle equipped with a scope, and that a few minutes later he looked back and only the white man was there. In the Warren Commission: Both were white, both were pacing in front of the southwest corner and when Rowland looked back, both were gone;

I said the Rambler station wagon was light green. The Warren Commission: Changed to a white station wagon;

I said the driver of the Station Wagon had on a tan jacket. The Warren Commission: A white jacket;

I said the license plates on the Rambler were not the same color as Texas plates. The Warren Commission: Omitted the not -- omitted but one word, an important one, so that it appeared that the license plates were the same color as Texas plates;

I said that I got a good look at the driver of the Rambler. The Warren Commission: I did not get a good look at the Rambler. (In Captain Fritz's office) I had said that Fritz had said to Oswald, "This man saw you leave" (indicating me). Oswald said, "I told you people I did." Fritz then said, "Now take it easy, son, we're just trying to find out what happened", and then (to Oswald), "What about the car?" to which Oswald replied, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to drag her into this." Fritz said car -- station wagon was not mentioned by anyone but Oswald. (I had told Fritz over the telephone that I saw a man get into a station wagon, before I went to the Dallas Police Department and I had also described the man. This is when Fritz asked me to come there.) Oswald then said, "Everybody will know who I am now;" the Warren Commission: Stated that the last statement by Oswald was made in a dramatic tone. This was not so. The Warren Commission also printed, "NOW everybody will know who I am", transposing the now. Oswald's tone and attitude was one of disappointment. If someone were attempting to conceal his identity as Deputy and he was found out, exposed -- his cover blown, his reaction would be dismay and disappointment. This was Oswald's tone and attitude -- disappointment at being exposed!

http://www.ratical.o.../JFK/WTKaP.html


___________________________________

Miles,

Good stuff! Thanks!

--Thomas

--------------------------------

Now, questions for anyone to please answer for me:

1) How could Det. Craig have known that the man (LHO) he saw in custody in Fritz's office was shorter than he (Craig) was, based solely on the man's appearance sitting there in Fritz's office? Based on that viewing, Craig said,"[...] he was short[...]" [...]I'm five eleven--he was shorter than I was." How could he say this when the man (LHO) not only was not standing up, but Craig couldn't even see what color pants he was wearing sitting there at the table? Craig said that he (Craig) was 5'11" and that the guy he saw running down the knoll and getting into the station wagon with a luggage rack was "...five nine, five eight, something like that..." That I can accept. But someone sitting down is quite different. Reminds me of one time when I (6'5") was sitting at at table in a pub with some ex-pat friends and their Czech friends and I get up to leave and the guy sitting next to me gets up, too, and he's effing 6'7" or something and I was rather surprised to say the least... I guess the point I'm trying to make is that based on my experience, it's impossible to discern two or three inches difference in height (plus or minus) by looking at someone when they are sitting down, for crying out loud.... (Unless, perhaps, their legs are so short that their feet don't quite touch the ground. Naw....)

2) OK, Det. Craig really said that the license plates on the station wagon were not from Texas and I really really really want to believe everything he says. Does anyone know whether or not he ever said what color the plates were? I would think that the color would be easy to remember. Evidently there was a combination of numbers and letters on the plates, but what was the color? Anyone know, please? Thanks. Sorry if this is a stupid question-- I gave away the few assassination books I had before moving to the Czech Republic and the only one I have now (which I recently bought for a buck at a library used-book sale!) is Jim Marr's Crossfire....

3) Question for Mark Carter-- Where was Det. Craig standing when he heard the "shrill whistle" and turned around and/or looked up and saw the "Rambler station wagon" heading slowly west down Elm and the guy running like a maniac down the grassy knoll towards the vehicle? Was Craig standing way down Elm (looking a the bullet/fragment strike on the curb or "pavement near the triple underpass"(?), or was he standing/kneeling farther up Elm (on the south side), looking at a different possible "pavement"/curb/sidewalk/grass bullet strike, relatively close to where Moorman, Brehm, et al had been standing at Z-313...?

4) Question for anyone, please-- What are we to make of the famous photo showing a large group of shocked witnesses standing on the western and central part of the grassy knoll in which the dark-suit-wearing Det. Craig is purportedly visible in the relative foreground on the edge of this large group on the north side of Elm and the head/face of someone, perhaps LHO (or an impostor) is visible behind a short wall of some sort, walking from left to right and if I remember correctly the figure identified as Det. Craig is looking in that person's direction??? If that's Craig, how did he get there from the south side of Elm through all the heavy traffic that he said prevented him from even crossing the street? Am I missing something here? Where was Craig when he first saw the "LHO" character? I know he claimed to have been on the south side of Elm Street and that he said that the light green station wagon with the luggage rack stopped almost directly across from him (so I guess that rules out the way down Elm near the Tripple Underpass location, doesn't it?), and that the traffic was so heavy that he couldn't cross the street (from the south side of Elm to the north side of Elm) to question/apprehend the two suspects who were going westbound down Elm.

5) I've read somewhere that the Paine's owned several vehicles. Did they (Michael and/or Ruth) actually own a light green Rambler station wagon, or any station wagon with a luggage rack at the rear for that matter, with non-Texas plates? Did his/her/their '55 Chevy station wagon have luggage racks and was it light green in color?

6) In Crossfire Marrs (on page 330) quotes Craig as testifying to the Warren Commission on April 1 (April Fool's Day?), 1964, "[...] Captain Fritz then asked (LHO) about the-uh-he said, 'What about this station wagon?' [emphasis added; different from Miles' quote which uses the critically vague word car ] And the suspect [[Oswald]] interrupted him and said, 'That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine ... Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it.' ... Captain Fritz then told him ... 'All we're trying to do is find out what happened and this man [Det. Craig] saw you leave the scene.' And the suspect again interrupted Captain Fritz and said, 'I told you people that I did.' ... Then he continued and he said, 'Everybody will know who I am now.' " [Same word order as in Miles' quote; emphasized by T.G.] So if Miles' sources are correct on what Craig actually did or did not say to the Warren Commission, then the only conclusion I can come to is that either Marrs' sources were wrong or that Marrs misquoted it/them or that Craig changed his story a bit himself after testifying to the Warren Commission....
Ideas on this, anyone?

Thank you (Myra, James, Tosh (lol), Jack, John, Lee, Ron, Larry, Tom, Duke, Bernice, Robin, Miles, et al, et al) in advance....
--Thomas

P.S.
Just an idea-- In Crossfire (pg. 330 again), Marrs says, "Craig later described the driver of the station wagon as a 'very dark complected' man with short, dark hair wearing a white windbreaker-type short jacket." Hmm... Sounds a bit like our old friend DCM, doesn't it? Very dark complected (but not dark enough to be called a "Negro" by Craig), with short, dark hair and wearing a white windbreaker-type jacket. I know that there are photos of DCM walking west down Elm shortly after the assassination, and then he is seen traversing the grassy knoll itself. I'm just wondering if there was enough time for him to walk into the parking lot or walk the long way around the TSBD, get into the parked light green station wagon and drive it slowly down Elm to rendevous (sp) with LHO or the imposter... Probably not enough time, huh? Oh well, just an idea....


___________________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves, 11 June 2007 - 03:03 PM.


#19 Duke Lane

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 05:05 PM

... Now, questions for anyone to please answer for me:
...
3) Question for Mark Carter-- Where was Det. Craig standing when he heard the "shrill whistle" and turned around and/or looked up and saw the "Rambler station wagon" heading slowly west down Elm and the guy running like a maniac down the grassy knoll towards the vehicle?
...
5) I've read somewhere that the Paine's owned several vehicles. Did they (Michael and/or Ruth) actually own a light green Rambler station wagon, or any station wagon with a luggage rack at the rear for that matter, with non-Texas plates? Did his/her/their '55 Chevy station wagon have luggage racks and was it light green in color?
...
P.S. Just an idea-- In Crossfire (pg. 330 again), Marrs says, "Craig later described the driver of the station wagon as a 'very dark complected' man with short, dark hair wearing a white windbreaker-type short jacket." Hmm... Sounds a bit like our old friend DCM, doesn't it? Very dark complected (but not dark enough to be called a "Negro" by Craig), with short, dark hair and wearing a white windbreaker-type jacket. I know that there are photos of DCM walking west down Elm shortly after the assassination, and then he is seen traversing the grassy knoll itself. I'm just wondering if there was enough time for him to walk into the parking lot or walk the long way around the TSBD, get into the parked light green station wagon and drive it slowly down Elm to rendevous (sp) with LHO or the imposter... Probably not enough time, huh? Oh well, just an idea....


FYI, below I've posted all(?) of the entries about Roger Craig to be found in, I guess, most places, from Walt Brown's Global Index to the JFK Assassination. Other citations were also found to other people relative to "station wagon," also below).

Some general observations about all of this: first, that there seem to be enough "independent" observations of a station wagon or a car that a man was (or men were) seen getting into almost immediately after the shooting that lends credence to the possibility since if there were shooters in the plaza area - including LHO or not - they had to get away from the area somehow, or else they had to blend into the crowd fairly effectively (Mooney's "plainclothes officers like me" being a case in point). I quote "independent" because you sometimes have to wonder how many people - especially those cited by authors - actually saw something, vice how many "remembered" it later after having read about it elsewhere ... not to mention how many people may have made up the story they told!

If there were time for DCM to have gone into the parking lot and later driven a car out to pick up a man or men depends upon how long after the shooting the cars/men were seen (e.g., where was DCM at the time of the photo of the Rambler wagon at least partially obscured by the bus?). I've never traced his movements, so have no idea.

More to the point is the testimony of James Romack (6H277-84), who came to the WC's attention at about the time James Worrell was leaving (with Robert Jackson, Amos Euins and someone else whose name I've momentarily forgotten) to go to DC to testify. It seems that Romack had been working at a freight terminal behind the TSBD - along with George "Pop" Rackley, Virgie's father (6H273-77)- and had "stationed" himself in a position where he could see the back of the building "at all times." He testified that he was watching the back and side of the building and saw nobody running from it at any time.

A couple of caveats to that testimony, however, are that he did, at one point, move from his "station" to remove the barricade on Houston St to allow Sam Pate to get his KBOX radio car out of the road construction zone back there, that being a point in time where his attention was directed away from the TSBD (Sam parked behind the TSBD, and on alighting did see someone running across Houston St from the direction of the SE corner/east side of the TSBD); and also that he was not asked - nor did he volunteer - anything about any vehicles in the area.

It is noted that Romack's entire testimony was intended - by his own admission - to discredit the "liar" that he thought Worrell was, and so focused mainly if not solely upon someone running from the side entrance. Neither his nor Rackley's testimony, to the best of my offhand recollection, had any discussion about other vehicles or persons in the area.

Other citations:

For "station wagon" see: James Pennington (p.189 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century) who it is said corroborated Craig's claim of LHO getting into a station wagon, as well as Marvin Robinson (driver on Elm Street who witnessed a man run from the Depository and enter a late model Rambler station wagon (32 in Anson, They've Killed the President; 73-74 in DiEugenio, Destiny Betrayed; 119-120 in Hurt, Reasonable Doubt; 132 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century; 110 in Moscovit, Did Castro Kill Kennedy?; 14 in Shaw and Harris, Cover-Up; 242 in Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas) and Richard Robinson (motorist who witnessed a man run from the Depository and enter a late model Rambler station wagon; may be the same person as Marvin Robinson, cited above), 387 in North, Act of Treason), Helen Forrest (saw a man run from the rear of the TSBD, down the incline, and get into a Rambler; if not Oswald, his twin, according to Mrs. James Forrest: 132, 135, 221, 225 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century; 110 in Moscovit, Did Castro Kill Kennedy?), Glenn Smith (accountant privy to an "Oswald" gun transaction, had actually driven a Russian-speaking woman three times to 2515 W 5th St, Irving after servicing her station wagon: 352 in Brown, Warren Omission; 357-358 in Meagher, Accessories After the Fact; Warren Commission 26 Volumes: noting that vehicle involved was a 1953 or 1954 Plymouth or Chevrolet station wagon, X, 403; TESTIMONY OF, X, 399-405; House Select Committee 12 Volumes: XII, 286-287).

Also(?), Richard Randolph Carr (Dealey Plaza eyewitness, had commanding vantage point in building under construction south of Elm Street: 32 in Anson, They've Killed the President; 395-399 in Brown, People v. Lee Harvey Oswald; 61, 67 in Crenshaw, Conspiracy of Silence; 412 in Davis, Mafia Kingfish; 43, 177-180, 235n, 243n in Garrison, Heritage of Stone; 95-96, 238-239, 281 in Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins; 121 in Groden and Livingstone, High Treason; 62, 143 in Groden, The Killing of a President; 119-120 in Hurt, Reasonable Doubt; 64, 86, 88 in Jones, Forgive My Grief III; 351-353, 458 in Kirkwood, American Grotesque; 131-132 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century; 21, 318-319 in Marrs, Crossfire; 23 in Menninger, Mortal Error; 387 in North, Act of Treason; 37, 185 in Sample, Men on the Sixth Floor; 12-14, 64, 182 in Shaw and Harris, Cover-Up; 88, 90 in Smith, Second Plot; 241-242, 244, 256 in Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas; House Select Committee 12 Volumes: XII, 8-9, 22).

Craig, Roger, (Sheriff's Deputy standing on Main Street when the shots were fired at JFK's limousine; Craig's place in the narrative is unique, and the authors cited only begin to flesh out his story; as is true in too many cases, this seminal figure in the JFK tragedy died, oddly, very young), 77n, 217 in 179, Anson, They've Killed the President; 495-498, 571, 577 in Brown, People v. Lee Harvey Oswald; 35, 130, 145, 149, 160, 243, 300 in Brown, Treachery in Dallas; 142, 206, 280, 308-309 in Brown, Warren Omission; 189 in Davis, Mafia Kingfish; 74 in DiEugenio, Destiny Betrayed; 95 in Epstein, Inquest; 440-443 in Fensterwald, Coincidence or Conspiracy? 94-96, 98, 194, 202, 204- 205, 239, 273-274, 281, 326-327 in Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins; 114, 121, 123-124, 161-162 in Groden and Livingstone, High Treason; 62, 64 in Groden, The Killing of a President; 118, 160, 245 in Groden, Search for Lee Harvey Oswald; 348 in Hepburn, Farewell America; 102, 120-121, 123, 125, 400, 413 in Hurt, Reasonable Doubt; 25, 29-31, 33-35, 67, 74 in Jones, Forgive My Grief, I; 15, 29-31, 33-37, 64, 79-80, 86-88, 90, 93 in Jones, Forgive My Grief III; 31, 33, 148-149 in Jones, Forgive My Grief IV; 325-326, 458 in Kirkwood, American Grotesque; 9, 19, 122, 127, 130-133, 195 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century; 18, 96, 98, 173-174, 384 in Lane, Rush to Judgment; 20, 328- 333 in Marrs, Crossfire; xxxvi, 59 in Meagher, Accessories After the Fact; 110-111 in Melanson, Spy Saga; 279-281 in Model and Groden, JFK: Case For Conspiracy; 110, 119, 211, 213 in Moscovit, Did Castro Kill Kennedy? 12, 20 in Palamara, Third Alternative; 90-91, 95, 105, 171, 173 in Popkin, The Second Oswald; 259, 446 in Posner, Case Closed; 212 in Roffman, Presumed Guilty; 347, 351 in Sauvage, Oswald Affair; 37-38, 156 in Scheim, Contract on America; 201 in Scott, ed., Assassinations; Dallas and Beyond; 9, 14-15, 26-29, 70, 88, 99, 144, 161 in Shaw and Harris, Cover-Up; 105, 183 in Sloan, JFK: Last Dissenting Witness; 41, 43-44, 137-138, 158-159, 161, 163, 236, 291 in Smith, Second Plot; 243-244, 256 in Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas; 498-499 in Trask, Pictures of the Pain; 110, 136-137, 139 in Weisberg, Whitewash II; 168 in Weisberg, Photographic Whitewash; Warren Commission 26 Volumes: IV, 245; XIX, 524; XXIII, 817; XXIV, 23; on Nash Rambler, VI, 266-267; seeing sixth floor cartridges a foot away from the window, VI, 268; Lee Oswald's comment regarding station wagon, VI, 270; on not being remembered on November 22, 1963 by Will Fritz, VII, 404; TESTIMONY OF, VI, 260-273; Warren Commission Report: 160-161, 251-253; House Select Committee 12 Volumes: XII, 6, 17-18.

#20 William Kelly

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 09:47 PM

[quote name='Thomas Graves' date='Jun 11 2007, 12:27 PM' post='105344']


.........
5) I've read somewhere that the Paine's owned several vehicles. Did they (Michael and/or Ruth) actually own a light green Rambler station wagon, or any station wagon with a luggage rack at the rear for that matter, with non-Texas plates?......

#21 William Kelly

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 09:47 PM

[quote name='Thomas Graves' date='Jun 11 2007, 12:27 PM' post='105344']
.........
5) I've read somewhere that the Paine's owned several vehicles. Did they (Michael and/or Ruth) actually own a light green Rambler station wagon, or any station wagon with a luggage rack at the rear for that matter, with non-Texas plates?......




NO and NO.

BK

Edited by William Kelly, 11 June 2007 - 09:48 PM.


#22 Duke Lane

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 05:17 AM


.........
5) I've read somewhere that the Paine's owned several vehicles. Did they (Michael and/or Ruth) actually own a light green Rambler station wagon, or any station wagon with a luggage rack at the rear for that matter, with non-Texas plates?......


NO and NO.

BK

Ah, the lawyer's usual propensity toward burying us in verbiage and evidence is strangely non-evident! Is this the result of a 12-step program, Bill? :lol:

#23 Thomas Graves

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 06:28 AM


.........
5) I've read somewhere that the Paine's owned several vehicles. Did they (Michael and/or Ruth) actually own a light green Rambler station wagon, or any station wagon with a luggage rack at the rear for that matter, with non-Texas plates?......


NO and NO.

BK

Ah, the lawyer's usual propensity toward burying us in verbiage and evidence is strangely non-evident! Is this the result of a 12-step program, Bill? :lol:


______________________________


A question for William Kelly (or anyone else for that matter)--

Is it true that in the Warren Commission report, Volume II, pg. 506, [2H506] that the following exchange took place?

Mr Jenner: "Describe your automobile, will you please?"

Mrs. Paine: "It is a 1955 Chevrolet station wagon, green, needing paint, which we bought secondhand. It is in my name."
(emphasis added)

Thanks,
--Thomas

______________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves, 12 June 2007 - 11:51 AM.


#24 William Kelly

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 08:01 AM


.........
5) I've read somewhere that the Paine's owned several vehicles. Did they (Michael and/or Ruth) actually own a light green Rambler station wagon, or any station wagon with a luggage rack at the rear for that matter, with non-Texas plates?......


NO and NO.

BK

Ah, the lawyer's usual propensity toward burying us in verbiage and evidence is strangely non-evident! Is this the result of a 12-step program, Bill? :ice


______________________________

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES and YES!


A question for William Kelly (or anyone else for that matter)--

Is it true that in the Warren Commission report, Volume II, pg. 506, [2H506] that the following exchange took place?

Mr Jenner: "Describe your automobile, will you please?"

Mrs. Paine: "It is a 1955 Chevrolet station wagon, green, needing paint, which we bought secondhand. It is in my name."
(emphasis added)

Thanks,
--Thomas

______________________________


Yes, Mrs. Paine had a 55 green Chevy station wagon, with Texas plates, in which she transported the assassination rifle from Dallas to New Orleans and then back to Texas.

The best research on Mrs. Paine's station wagon is Carol Hewett's "Mrs. Paine's Summer Vacation" and Richard Bartholomew's lengthly report on the Rambler station wagon.

BK

#25 J. William King

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 09:35 AM

Ruth Paine's '55 Chevy wagon:

http://www.cannet.co.../ruth-paine.jpe

JWK

#26 Thomas Graves

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 11:46 AM

Ruth Paine's '55 Chevy wagon:

http://www.cannet.co.../ruth-paine.jpe

JWK


____________________________

Thanks, JW.

Looks light blue to me. Did the Paines have it painted blue?

Michael owned a blue and white 1956 Oldsmobile sedan. Can anyone post a photo of that car or one like it?


Thanks,
--Thomas

____________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves, 12 June 2007 - 07:20 PM.


#27 Thomas Graves

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 11:56 AM

... Now, questions for anyone to please answer for me:
...
3) Question for Mark Carter-- Where was Det. Craig standing when he heard the "shrill whistle" and turned around and/or looked up and saw the "Rambler station wagon" heading slowly west down Elm and the guy running like a maniac down the grassy knoll towards the vehicle?
...
5) I've read somewhere that the Paine's owned several vehicles. Did they (Michael and/or Ruth) actually own a light green Rambler station wagon, or any station wagon with a luggage rack at the rear for that matter, with non-Texas plates? Did his/her/their '55 Chevy station wagon have luggage racks and was it light green in color?
...
P.S. Just an idea-- In Crossfire (pg. 330 again), Marrs says, "Craig later described the driver of the station wagon as a 'very dark complected' man with short, dark hair wearing a white windbreaker-type short jacket." Hmm... Sounds a bit like our old friend DCM, doesn't it? Very dark complected (but not dark enough to be called a "Negro" by Craig), with short, dark hair and wearing a white windbreaker-type jacket. I know that there are photos of DCM walking west down Elm shortly after the assassination, and then he is seen traversing the grassy knoll itself. I'm just wondering if there was enough time for him to walk into the parking lot or walk the long way around the TSBD, get into the parked light green station wagon and drive it slowly down Elm to rendevous (sp) with LHO or the imposter... Probably not enough time, huh? Oh well, just an idea....


FYI, below I've posted all(?) of the entries about Roger Craig to be found in, I guess, most places, from Walt Brown's Global Index to the JFK Assassination. Other citations were also found to other people relative to "station wagon," also below).

Some general observations about all of this: first, that there seem to be enough "independent" observations of a station wagon or a car that a man was (or men were) seen getting into almost immediately after the shooting that lends credence to the possibility since if there were shooters in the plaza area - including LHO or not - they had to get away from the area somehow, or else they had to blend into the crowd fairly effectively (Mooney's "plainclothes officers like me" being a case in point). I quote "independent" because you sometimes have to wonder how many people - especially those cited by authors - actually saw something, vice how many "remembered" it later after having read about it elsewhere ... not to mention how many people may have made up the story they told!

If there were time for DCM to have gone into the parking lot and later driven a car out to pick up a man or men depends upon how long after the shooting the cars/men were seen (e.g., where was DCM at the time of the photo of the Rambler wagon at least partially obscured by the bus?). I've never traced his movements, so have no idea.

More to the point is the testimony of James Romack (6H277-84), who came to the WC's attention at about the time James Worrell was leaving (with Robert Jackson, Amos Euins and someone else whose name I've momentarily forgotten) to go to DC to testify. It seems that Romack had been working at a freight terminal behind the TSBD - along with George "Pop" Rackley, Virgie's father (6H273-77)- and had "stationed" himself in a position where he could see the back of the building "at all times." He testified that he was watching the back and side of the building and saw nobody running from it at any time.

A couple of caveats to that testimony, however, are that he did, at one point, move from his "station" to remove the barricade on Houston St to allow Sam Pate to get his KBOX radio car out of the road construction zone back there, that being a point in time where his attention was directed away from the TSBD (Sam parked behind the TSBD, and on alighting did see someone running across Houston St from the direction of the SE corner/east side of the TSBD); and also that he was not asked - nor did he volunteer - anything about any vehicles in the area.

It is noted that Romack's entire testimony was intended - by his own admission - to discredit the "liar" that he thought Worrell was, and so focused mainly if not solely upon someone running from the side entrance. Neither his nor Rackley's testimony, to the best of my offhand recollection, had any discussion about other vehicles or persons in the area.

Other citations:

For "station wagon" see: James Pennington (p.189 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century) who it is said corroborated Craig's claim of LHO getting into a station wagon, as well as Marvin Robinson (driver on Elm Street who witnessed a man run from the Depository and enter a late model Rambler station wagon (32 in Anson, They've Killed the President; 73-74 in DiEugenio, Destiny Betrayed; 119-120 in Hurt, Reasonable Doubt; 132 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century; 110 in Moscovit, Did Castro Kill Kennedy?; 14 in Shaw and Harris, Cover-Up; 242 in Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas) and Richard Robinson (motorist who witnessed a man run from the Depository and enter a late model Rambler station wagon; may be the same person as Marvin Robinson, cited above), 387 in North, Act of Treason), Helen Forrest (saw a man run from the rear of the TSBD, down the incline, and get into a Rambler; if not Oswald, his twin, according to Mrs. James Forrest: 132, 135, 221, 225 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century; 110 in Moscovit, Did Castro Kill Kennedy?), Glenn Smith (accountant privy to an "Oswald" gun transaction, had actually driven a Russian-speaking woman three times to 2515 W 5th St, Irving after servicing her station wagon: 352 in Brown, Warren Omission; 357-358 in Meagher, Accessories After the Fact; Warren Commission 26 Volumes: noting that vehicle involved was a 1953 or 1954 Plymouth or Chevrolet station wagon, X, 403; TESTIMONY OF, X, 399-405; House Select Committee 12 Volumes: XII, 286-287).

Also(?), Richard Randolph Carr (Dealey Plaza eyewitness, had commanding vantage point in building under construction south of Elm Street: 32 in Anson, They've Killed the President; 395-399 in Brown, People v. Lee Harvey Oswald; 61, 67 in Crenshaw, Conspiracy of Silence; 412 in Davis, Mafia Kingfish; 43, 177-180, 235n, 243n in Garrison, Heritage of Stone; 95-96, 238-239, 281 in Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins; 121 in Groden and Livingstone, High Treason; 62, 143 in Groden, The Killing of a President; 119-120 in Hurt, Reasonable Doubt; 64, 86, 88 in Jones, Forgive My Grief III; 351-353, 458 in Kirkwood, American Grotesque; 131-132 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century; 21, 318-319 in Marrs, Crossfire; 23 in Menninger, Mortal Error; 387 in North, Act of Treason; 37, 185 in Sample, Men on the Sixth Floor; 12-14, 64, 182 in Shaw and Harris, Cover-Up; 88, 90 in Smith, Second Plot; 241-242, 244, 256 in Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas; House Select Committee 12 Volumes: XII, 8-9, 22).

Craig, Roger, (Sheriff's Deputy standing on Main Street when the shots were fired at JFK's limousine; Craig's place in the narrative is unique, and the authors cited only begin to flesh out his story; as is true in too many cases, this seminal figure in the JFK tragedy died, oddly, very young), 77n, 217 in 179, Anson, They've Killed the President; 495-498, 571, 577 in Brown, People v. Lee Harvey Oswald; 35, 130, 145, 149, 160, 243, 300 in Brown, Treachery in Dallas; 142, 206, 280, 308-309 in Brown, Warren Omission; 189 in Davis, Mafia Kingfish; 74 in DiEugenio, Destiny Betrayed; 95 in Epstein, Inquest; 440-443 in Fensterwald, Coincidence or Conspiracy? 94-96, 98, 194, 202, 204- 205, 239, 273-274, 281, 326-327 in Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins; 114, 121, 123-124, 161-162 in Groden and Livingstone, High Treason; 62, 64 in Groden, The Killing of a President; 118, 160, 245 in Groden, Search for Lee Harvey Oswald; 348 in Hepburn, Farewell America; 102, 120-121, 123, 125, 400, 413 in Hurt, Reasonable Doubt; 25, 29-31, 33-35, 67, 74 in Jones, Forgive My Grief, I; 15, 29-31, 33-37, 64, 79-80, 86-88, 90, 93 in Jones, Forgive My Grief III; 31, 33, 148-149 in Jones, Forgive My Grief IV; 325-326, 458 in Kirkwood, American Grotesque; 9, 19, 122, 127, 130-133, 195 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century; 18, 96, 98, 173-174, 384 in Lane, Rush to Judgment; 20, 328- 333 in Marrs, Crossfire; xxxvi, 59 in Meagher, Accessories After the Fact; 110-111 in Melanson, Spy Saga; 279-281 in Model and Groden, JFK: Case For Conspiracy; 110, 119, 211, 213 in Moscovit, Did Castro Kill Kennedy? 12, 20 in Palamara, Third Alternative; 90-91, 95, 105, 171, 173 in Popkin, The Second Oswald; 259, 446 in Posner, Case Closed; 212 in Roffman, Presumed Guilty; 347, 351 in Sauvage, Oswald Affair; 37-38, 156 in Scheim, Contract on America; 201 in Scott, ed., Assassinations; Dallas and Beyond; 9, 14-15, 26-29, 70, 88, 99, 144, 161 in Shaw and Harris, Cover-Up; 105, 183 in Sloan, JFK: Last Dissenting Witness; 41, 43-44, 137-138, 158-159, 161, 163, 236, 291 in Smith, Second Plot; 243-244, 256 in Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas; 498-499 in Trask, Pictures of the Pain; 110, 136-137, 139 in Weisberg, Whitewash II; 168 in Weisberg, Photographic Whitewash; Warren Commission 26 Volumes: IV, 245; XIX, 524; XXIII, 817; XXIV, 23; on Nash Rambler, VI, 266-267; seeing sixth floor cartridges a foot away from the window, VI, 268; Lee Oswald's comment regarding station wagon, VI, 270; on not being remembered on November 22, 1963 by Will Fritz, VII, 404; TESTIMONY OF, VI, 260-273; Warren Commission Report: 160-161, 251-253; House Select Committee 12 Volumes: XII, 6, 17-18.


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Duke,

Thanks for all that!

--Thomas

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#28 Thomas Graves

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 07:22 PM

Ruth Paine's '55 Chevy wagon:

http://www.cannet.co.../ruth-paine.jpe

JWK


____________________________

Thanks, JW.

Looks light blue rather than green to me. Did the Paines have it painted blue? Also, did Ruth's '55 Chevy station wagon have a luggage rack on top near the rear?

Michael owned a blue and white 1956 Oldsmobile sedan. Can anyone post a photo of that car or one like it?



Thanks,
--Thomas

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topical bump

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Edited by Thomas Graves, 13 June 2007 - 03:21 AM.


#29 Miles Scull

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 01:41 AM

Mark,

The WCR altered Craig's deposition to hide the true facts & to concoct the LN rubbish. Craig writes:


I first saw my testimony in January of 1968 when I looked at the 26 volumes which belonged to Penn Jones. My alleged statement was included. The following are some of the changes in my testimony:


Arnold Rowland told me that he saw two men on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository 15 minutes before the President arrived: one was a Negro, who was pacing back and forth by the southwest window. The other was a white man in the southeast corner, with a rifle equipped with a scope, and that a few minutes later he looked back and only the white man was there. In the Warren Commission: Both were white, both were pacing in front of the southwest corner and when Rowland looked back, both were gone;

I said the Rambler station wagon was light green. The Warren Commission: Changed to a white station wagon;

I said the driver of the Station Wagon had on a tan jacket. The Warren Commission: A white jacket;

I said the license plates on the Rambler were not the same color as Texas plates. The Warren Commission: Omitted the not -- omitted but one word, an important one, so that it appeared that the license plates were the same color as Texas plates;

I said that I got a good look at the driver of the Rambler. The Warren Commission: I did not get a good look at the Rambler. (In Captain Fritz's office) I had said that Fritz had said to Oswald, "This man saw you leave" (indicating me). Oswald said, "I told you people I did." Fritz then said, "Now take it easy, son, we're just trying to find out what happened", and then (to Oswald), "What about the car?" to which Oswald replied, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to drag her into this." Fritz said car -- station wagon was not mentioned by anyone but Oswald. (I had told Fritz over the telephone that I saw a man get into a station wagon, before I went to the Dallas Police Department and I had also described the man. This is when Fritz asked me to come there.) Oswald then said, "Everybody will know who I am now;" the Warren Commission: Stated that the last statement by Oswald was made in a dramatic tone. This was not so. The Warren Commission also printed, "NOW everybody will know who I am", transposing the now. Oswald's tone and attitude was one of disappointment. If someone were attempting to conceal his identity as Deputy and he was found out, exposed -- his cover blown, his reaction would be dismay and disappointment. This was Oswald's tone and attitude -- disappointment at being exposed!

http://www.ratical.o.../JFK/WTKaP.html



On the Roger Craig veracity subject, these images seem to verify Craig's Mauser testimony. This is from film footage shot on the sixth floor soon after the assassination. I'm not sure if Gil didn't do this composite on YouTube.



There clearly is a second scoped rifle propped against a box seen behind (underneath) the rifle in the foreground which is being examined. Two scoped rifles? B) Did Lee have two? One as backup? I don't want to jump to any rash conclusions here, but is it possible that there were 2 Lone Nuts? Naauugh.....

Posted Image

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#30 Thomas Graves

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Posted 13 June 2007 - 03:24 AM

Ruth Paine's '55 Chevy wagon:

http://www.cannet.co.../ruth-paine.jpe

JWK


____________________________

Thanks, JW.

Looks light blue rather than green to me. Does anyone know whether or not the Paines had it painted blue? (I rather doubt it, but I guess it is a possibility. I am aware of the fact that Ruth testified to the WC that her station wagon was green and need a paint job, so maybe they did have it painted light blue....) Also, did Ruth's '55 Chevy station wagon have a luggage rack on top near the rear? Does anyone know if there are other photos of her station wagon which show more of the vehicle than just the front right quarter or so?

Michael owned a blue and white 1956 Oldsmobile sedan. Can anyone please post a photo of that car or one like it?


Thanks,
--Thomas


____________________________


topical bump

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regarding the topic Ruth Paine's Station Wagon....

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Edited by Thomas Graves, 13 June 2007 - 03:45 AM.





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