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Operation Paperclip / Project Paperclip


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#1 Lee Forman

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 11:34 PM

This one should have been on the index - but since I didn't find it, thought I'd get it going.

http://www.ratical.o...odAmericans.txt

[quote]Project Paperclip -- A successful American operation which brought
to the U.S. literally hundreds of top aerospace and munitions
experts from Nazi Germany to form the corporate leadership and the
expertise behind the technological and military advances of a
growing military-industrial I complex.[10][/quote]

'Successful' being the operative word here. If memory serves, the paperclip was the indicator on the application for the program - a paperclip meant you were approved - I may need to doublecheck on that.

~150 scientists and their families with aerospace expertise - right to NASA. I can see that one making a great deal of logical sense from a perspective of Defense, technology, and the Cold War culture - Stalin was quite upset about that loss - he wasn't alone in trying to mine these resources.

[quote]Linda Hunt, Secret Agenda, The United States Government, Nazi Scientists,
and Project Paperclip, 1945-1990. St. Martin's Press, 1991.
A well-documented and comprehensive account that documents the bringing to this
country of over 1000 scientists and researchers and their dependents under
Operation Paperclip which recruited Nazi war criminals. (out of print)[/quote]

I have seen the number 5,000. Prouty claimed to be in charge of 'Blowback' which appears to have been a continuation of the Paperclip Project. His comment on the Penn State news makes it sound like the numbers were larger.

http://72.14.209.104...Z...t=clnk&cd=1

[quote]Col. L. FLETCHER PROUTY writes:

I have been reading and enjoying "Free Thinking"... With TV destroying the minds of the younger generation and making parrots out of the rest, what we need as much as anything is to reach the minds of the people and jolt them into good use.

Then just as I came across that idea, from the title of the newsletter, what do I see a few lines below but the name of the great elephant hunter, Jolly West. Sometime In 1955 when I went into the Pentagon after my three years in the Far East during the Korean War, I was assigned to the Unconventional Warfare Division of the headquarters Air Force. It didn't take long to find that one of their "boys" was Major Jolyn West. He and his cohorts were characters: Jim Monroe, Bob Biderman -- or was it Dick? -- Ewen Cameron and others.

This was the era of Big Switch and Little Switch as they were getting back the POW's from Korea. They created the story that the men had been "Brainwashed." Brainwashed was a new term then, and you know all about that. A great RAND project.

I was being assigned to a new function, i.e. support of the CIA, and my new offices were being built; so I had to stay at a desk in the same rooms with those guys. Actually it was educational. These were the MKULTRA, ARTICOKE [sic] and other games, days. I used to be sent to the meetings. At one MKULTRA meeting I heard a senior CIA type ask the creatures from Ft. Detrich, "Don't you believe it will be possible to create an ethnic weapon?" I was in good company. I believe that the money Dr. MacArthur got from Congress in 1969 was what paid for the "AIDs" "weapon," and its antidote. If you are on the team you have the antidote... just as Armageddon has prophecized these past many centuries... the favored 12,000 each of the twelve tribes. ( Have you read the book, "TRIBES" by Joel Kotkin. It's worth it, and prophetic.)

!

About your headline: "Nazi Scientists on the Faculty of Penn"... If you check the official "Biographical Directory of Fellows and Members of the American (yes, American) Psychiatric Ass'n" you will discover that of its 7,104 members listed in 1957 a total of 1,253 came from Germany and the Eastern European countries: For example, German/ Austrian 458, Russian 180, Poland 130, U.K. 108, Hungary 62...etc. And they said, "American." No wonder they are on the Penn Campus and all over the country. That was only 1957.

I operated the aircraft for "Blowback" the project that followed "Paperclip." We flew thousands from Europe to Andrews Air Base."[/quote]

I don't know that the story was 'created' about brainwashing of POWs. Seems plausible to me, and I have read about it many times before.

http://www.wanttokno...fo/bluebird10pg

[quote]The importation of Nazi doctors to the US through secret programs like PAPERCLIP is part of the context. After the end of World War II, German scientists and technical experts were being held in a variety of detainment camps. The British, French, Americans, and Russians became embroiled in highly competitive recruiting efforts to secure the services of these German specialists. The prospect of losing the industrial and scientific services of these German experts lead to the creation of Project PAPERCLIP. [3][4][5] Over 1,000 German scientists were secretly brought into the US without State Department approval. The most famous individual brought over in this manner was Werner von Braun, the rocket scientist. Von Braun was the head of the German V2 rocket program. The NASA rockets that took Neil Armstrong to the moon were built by von Braun and his colleagues. Medical doctors also came over under PAPERCLIP.[/quote]

http://www.thirdworl...rclip_file.html

[quote]OPERATION PAPERCLIP
After WWII ended in 1945, victorious Russian and American intelligence teams began a treasure hunt throughout occupied Germany for military and scientific booty. They were looking for things like new rocket and aircraft designs, medicines, and electronics. But they were also hunting down the most precious "spoils" of all: the scientists whose work had nearly won the war for Germany. The engineers and intelligence officers of the Nazi War Machine.

The U.S. Military rounded up Nazi scientists and brought them to America. It had originally intended merely to debrief them and send them back to Germany. But when it realized the extent of the scientists knowledge and expertise, the War Department decided it would be a waste to send the scientists home. Following the discovery of flying discs (foo fighters), particle/laser beam weaponry in German military bases, the War Department decided that NASA and the CIA must control this technology, and the Nazi engineers that had worked on this technology.

There was only one problem: it was illegal. U.S. law explicitly prohibited Nazi officials from immigrating to America--and as many as three-quarters of the scientists in question had been committed Nazis.

Data-Points:
Convinced that German scientists could help America's postwar efforts, President Harry Truman agreed in September 1946 to authorize "Project Paperclip," a program to bring selected German scientists to work on America's behalf during the "Cold War"

However, Truman expressly excluded anyone found "to have been a member of the Nazi party and more than a nominal participant in its activities, or an active supporter of Naziism or militarism."[/quote]

Some individuals were assigned to work in Germany to find 'booty' were frequently contacted by individuals that may have something to exchange for Paperclip status - like the locating of numerous caches of records, photographs, weapons, etc. - hidden in caves and other places throughout Germany. These folks thought that they were doing the right thing for their Country, and I'm sure some of these German families deserved saving - unfortunately 1, however, Truman's edict was totally ignored, and some of the individuals that managed to avoid the Nuremberg trials through Paperclip were heavy hitters, formerly directly with Hitler in high positions of authority in the Third Reich - The 'good Nazis' - as one writer has Dulles putting it. Not only did they avoid trial, but they were provided with the old 'acre of land and a mule' trick - job placement in multiple industries at high levels. I have even seen a reference to specific legislation passed provided Paper Clippers with preferential hiring status. And if you have never read anything about the Nazi's obsession with the occult - I can probably find you a few thousand references - there was a good program on the History Channel I believe.

John Judge has an interesting piece on the subject - Good Americans. I will paste some of the ones I find interesting - you can read his whole piece here:

http://www.ratical.o...odAmericans.txt

[quote]John J. McCloy -- A High Commissioner of Germany after the war who
pardoned key Nazi criminals like Krupp, Abs, Dohrnberger, Schacht,
and others.[42] His long career has made him a "Godfather of the
American establishment." He sat atop the World Bank, directed
construction of the Pentagon, worked with Earl Warren to set up
the Japanese concentration camps in America, blocked any military
attacks on the Nazi death camps as Assistant Secretary of War. He
stopped the summary execution of Nazis in favor of the Nuremberg
Trials which he later thwarted, and also sat as a member of the
Warren Commission.[43]

Henry Kissinger -- Worked with General Lucius Clay at
Oberammergau, and then with key stateside Army Intelligence and
CIA units responsible for bringing in the Nazi spies.[45]
Kissinger, who came from Germany to join U.S. Army Intelligence
during World War II, had as his "mentor" the mysterious Fritz
Kraemer.[46] Kraemer's 30-year silent career in the Pentagon plans
division includes the prepping of Alexander Haig.[47] It may also
conceal his real identity -- prisoner #33 in the dockets at
Dachau, the special Lieutenant to Hitler, Fritz Kraemer.[48] Mr.
Kissinger still relies on his advice, and did so while Secretary
of State.

Richard Milhous Nixon -- Former President whose work with Navy
Intelligence at the end of World War II included the importation
of Nazi criminals through the Gould family estate on Long Island.
Among them was Nicolae Malaxa, whose collaboration with Hermann
Goering was apparently no problem for Nixon, who defended Malaxa's
U.S. citizenship.[50] In fact, a special bill was introduced in
Congress to secure the citizenship by Senator Pat McCarren of
Nevada. McCarren and Senator Joe McCarthy later introduced
legislation to set up "detention and internment camps" in the U.S.
in times of war or national emergency for "internal
security." [51]

Frank G. Wisner -- An official of the OSS and a CIA veteran who
brought the Byelorussian government here, the Latvian Thunder
Cross, the Hungarian Arrow Cross, and the Roumanian Iron Guard
among others. As many as 5,000 came to work at Radio Free Europe
and Radio Liberty, the CIA, the Voice of America, the Defense
Language Institute, "for the United States in defense of
liberty.[54] Allen Dulles said of Gehlen, "He's on our side now."
Bobby Inman of the NSA and CIA networks today admitted recently
that these fascists were "the bedrock" of covert operations in
Europe in the 40s and 50s by the CIA, and molded the
anti-communist policy there.[55]

Peter Drucker -- Well-known industrialist who began the
multinational corporation concept, he was responsible for bringing
Nazi leader Fritz Kraemer from Frankfurt to the Pentagon.[73]

George Bush -- Former head of the CIA who employed, among others,
U.S. Army officer, Capt. William Rhine of the Bay of Pigs
operation. Rhine is really top SS spy Helmut Streicher, who worked
directly with Hitler, Gehlen, Otto Skorzeny, and then U.S. Army
Intelligence from October, 1945 on.[77]

General Douglas MacArthur -- Another World War II hero, he helped
to cover up Japanese war crimes involving chemical and biological
experiments on American_prisoners so that we could use the secret
results.[78] This operation and others directly involved
MacArthur's chief of staff, Colonel Charles Willoughby, who is in
reality a Nazi criminal, Kurt Weidenbach.[79]

Historically interconnected with the Solidarists and the fascists,
powerful elements in the Vatican continued their work through high
church officials, Opus Dei, and the Sovereign Military order of
Malta, the Knights of Malta.[85]

Roy Cohn -- The key lawyer in the prosecution of the Rosenberg
case the alleged "Atom Spies" executed in the 1950s, [99] he
worked with Joe McCarthy and David Schine to spread the "Communist
Menace" lies. He currently sits on the board of the anti-communist
Western Goals Foundation, and his law partner, Tom Bolan, is a
member of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.[100]

Alexander Haig -- A long-time protege of the Pentagon "Iron
Mentor" Fritz Kraemer, [101] Haig extended favors and NATO links
to the fascist cell in Italy known as P-2 or Propaganda Due, whose
"puppetmaster," Licio Gelli, worked with Franco and Mussolini and
shares dual citizenship in Italy and Argentina.[102] The
involvement of high government officials in this secret order of
Free-Masons scandalized and rocked the whole Italian government,
and opened the ensuing scandal of Banco Ambrosiano and the Vatican
Bank's missing billions.[103] Many of the key figures are either
imprisoned (Licio Gelli and Michele Sindona, former head of the
Vatican Bank) or dead (Roberto Calvi, known as "God's Banker,"
found hanging beneath Blackfriar's Bridge in London.) [104] Haig
has just been knighted into the secretive Knights of Malta, which
includes his brother, and prestigious members like William Colby
(CIA), William F. Buckley (CIA), J. Peter Grace, John McCone
(CIA), General Vernon Walters (Reagan's "roving ambassador"),
James Angleton (CIA), and others.[105]


Once the cast of characters is clear, the interconnections
continue. One of the front companies used by Wilson and Terpil in
California, TCI, was founded by Helene von Damm and Otto Albrecht
von BoIschwing.[116] The relative importance of von BoIschwing
cannot be underestimated. He was placed in charge of the
Gehlen-CIA network in the United States when Gehlen returned to
Germany to set up their post-war intelligence agency.[117] Many of
the people mentioned already have direct or indirect links to the
assassination of John F. Kennedy, later political murders, and
their coverups.[118] Others make the connections of the
international fascist cabal very clear in the murder of John F.
Kennedy and many more progressive leaders.

Werner von Braun -- Whose infamous "Rocket Team" developed the
first intercontinental missiles at Peenemunde, and were then
brought here to develop NASA rocketry, and the growing aerospace
industry.[119] The NASA security teams are implicated in several
sources in connection with the murder of John F. Kennedy.[120] The
actual physical capture of von Braun, who had used slave labor to
build the rockets, was done by American,; troops in Switzerland
led by Clay Shaw, later charged by District Attorney Jim Garrison
for his role in the Kennedy killing.[121]

General Walter Dohrnberger -- A Nazi murderer convicted at
Nuremberg for working with the "Butcher of Auschwitz" to kill
6,000 Jews, he was scheduled to be hanged according to British
prosecutor Shawcross.[122] He had been a "mentor" and friend to
Von Braun throughout the war, getting materials and labor denied
at times by Hitler for the rocket works. Von Braun refused to work
on NASA rockets unless we intervened to save Dohrnberger. Of
course, we did, and a full pardon was arranged by John J.
McCloy.[123] General Dohrnberger came to the United States, worked
at NASA briefly, and then became director of the Helicopter
Division, Bell Aerospace, in Dallas and Houston, Texas.[124] He
still trains pilots abroad, working with dictators like the Shah
of Iran. Dohrnberger employed topranking military intelligence
agent Michele Paine, who housed Marina Oswald in his home in
Irving, Texas.[125] Marina, who married Lee Harvey Oswald in
Russia, lived in Minsk, Byelorussia, and was the niece of the top
officer of the NKVD, the Soviet secret police.[126] Her family was
openly anti-communist.[127]

George de Mohrenschildt -- His whole family was Byelorussian, and
rabidly anti-communist after their fortune was lost to the
revolution at the Nobel family oil fields. They moved to Germany
and worked with the Nazis during World War II. George was a spy,
carrying papers from Nelson Rockefeller after the war, and his
cousin Baron Meyerling was a Nazi film propagandist. His brother,
Von, was put to work at the Pentagon after the war, and now sits
on the CIA's Tolstoy Foundation. His wife was related to CIA and
OSS employees, and her father ran the railroads in China before
Mao took power. George later lost another oil fortune of his own
in Cuba following the ouster of Batista by Fidel Castro.[128] He
was the contact for the Oswalds to the White Russian Solidarist
community in Dallas, and the CIA "babysitter" and best friend to
Lee Harvey Oswald. De Mohrenschildt introduced the Oswalds to the
Paines, and it was Ruth Paine who got Oswald the job in the Texas
School Book Depository, and lied to the Warren Commission about
"Oswald's rifle" and set him up as the patsy in the Kennedy
assassination.[129][/quote]

Unfortunately 2, missiles and weapons were only a part of the overall game here. What resulted was simply mind boggling. This Nazi collaboration led to a staggering number of projects - all 'Military Industrial Complex' related projects.

#2 Lee Forman

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 01:08 AM

Paperclip was of course the nexus for all of the associated MK projects that followed.

I don't fully appreciate the connection to the M15.

Anyone know any of the 'Space Kids?'

- lee

#3 Jack White

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 06:12 AM

Peter...good stuff on the NAZI connection.

The least appreciated Nazi connection is the Bush family!
Run a googlecheck on BUSH NAZI.

Jack

#4 William Kelly

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 08:38 AM

The two primary Paperclip connections to the JFK assassination are Nazi Gen. Dornberger's position in the Security division of Bell Helicopter, and the Nazi rocket scientist who developed the jet plane engine who went to Collins Radio.

While his name escapes me at the moment, the jet inventor was assigned to work with General Dynamics in Conn. to develop a new swift boat that the anti-Castro Cuban raiders could use in their attacks along the Cuban coast.

Mae Brussell also has a lot of background on the Paperclip/JFK assassination links.

BK

#5 John Simkin

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 10:01 AM

While his name escapes me at the moment, the jet inventor was assigned to work with General Dynamics in Conn. to develop a new swift boat that the anti-Castro Cuban raiders could use in their attacks along the Cuban coast.


Do you mean Hans Ohain. After studying at the University of Gottingen he was employed by Ernst Heinkel, the German aircraft builder. In 1939 Ohain developed the HE 178. With its centrifugal-flow turbojet engine, the plane made its first flight on 27th August, 1939. Ohain followed this success by building the HeS 8A which was first flown on 2nd April, 1941 and the Heinkel He 162 that appeared in 1945.

After the Second World War Ohain emigrated to the United States where he worked on jet aircraft for the US Air Force. Hans Ohain died in Florida on 13th March, 1998.

http://www.spartacus...uk/GERohain.htm

#6 Lee Forman

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 05:08 PM

I liken the Paperclip project to the 'British Invasion' of Rock 'n Roll here in the US in the 60s and 70s. It was vast, and it changed the landscape entirely.

This is simply a high level summary.

As a result of having all the research that resulted from the Third Reich - and as a result of having on board numerous Scientists / Psychologists, etc., who were trained in experimentation on human beings, behavior, chemicals, etc. some of the following resulted - driven by the Military [allegedly with Helms, Dulles, Angleton, etc. being the major motivators / executors of these studies] - many times, in competition with the USSR, China, Japan, etc. The goal was better weapons, better fighting techniques, invisible and covert methods, perfect assassins with total plausible denial, surveillance, covert couriers of intel, prevention of leaks by interrogation, destabilization of an enemy's morale, biochemical weapons, anti-Communism, etc.

The interesting part is also that these projects were handled by different branches of the US Military - Army, Navy, DOD, CIA, FBI - some in partnership. And some projects were run here in the US, and some working with our Canadian neighbors. They ran many on US Airforce bases across the Country. Andrews was close to the center of things, and was also the first stopping point for Paperclip and Blowback - hence, 'chock full o nuts.' These ops ran through the cooperation of a number of 'false fronts,' grants, partnerships, etc. - through Universities, Medical Centers, Research Facilities, Ecological Organizations, Churches, etc.

CHATTER
BLUEBIRD
ARTICHOKE
QKHILLTOP
MKULTRA
MKDELTA
COINTELPRO
MKSEARCH
MONARCH
MKNAOMI
OPERATION PANDORA
PANDORAOFTEN and CHICKWIT
OPERATION THIRD CHANCE
OPERATION DERBY HAT
OPERATION MIDNIGHT CLIMAX
OPERATION MHCHAOS
OPERATION SLAMMER
OPERATION SCANATE
STARGATE
GRILL FLAME
CENTER LANE
SUNSTREAK
OPERATION PIQUE

If you have ever read The body snatchers' by Robert Louis Stevenson, or studied fundamental economics - you can guess what happened next.

Now the one that interests me the most is MONARCH - however, there is also what appears to have been a number of other projects that folks just aren't aware of, or don't know the names of yet. For example, what project name or authority was NASA using? I bought Cooper's book - haven't read it yet. Does this explain the relationship to Reilly's Coffee somehow?

NASA in the 1950's and 1960's involving gifted American schoolchildren.
The astronaut's revelation was made during a July 19th interview by host Mike Siegel on the popular, late-night radio program, Coast to Coast.

During a discussion that primarily focused on Cooper's beliefs that extraterrestrial beings are visiting planet Earth and that some UFO's are alien spacecraft, Siegel asked Cooper: "Who were the space kids?"

Cooper answered that "the space kids were children with exceptional mental abilities run through a kind of MK program, like the things that are coming out now."

He went on to describe how NASA's mind control program emphasized cultivation of the children's psychic abilities and that it involved telepathy, remote viewing, and out-of-body-experiences (OBE's).

Cooper's remarks generally support the claims of a growing cadre of Americans, now in their thirties, forties, and fifties, who are
recovering memories of unusual classes that they were enrolled in as young children during the advent of the Space Age.

These "study groups" included speed reading lessons that enabled students to comprehend entire passages at a single glance, the use of learning machines to teach them vast amounts of information, card games and other situational exercises involving clairvoyance, and seminars in the guided imagination that forms the basis of remote viewing.

It is believed that NASA's mind control program was directed at preparing children who would later be able to communicate with the non-human intelligent species that humanity might encounter in space.



Although Helms ordered the records destroyed, and although the official word was that no children were ever used in these experiments or programs -- apparently, that was a lie - as per Cooper's remarks for one, but primarily all of the child survivors of some of these programs who are now screwed up adults. And although the programs Cooper is referring to appear to have been benign by his account - speed reading, for example - this seems to be at tremendous odds with the accounts of the victims.

- lee

#7 Lee Forman

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 05:23 AM

[quote]The perpetrators deliberately murdered JFK in such a way as to affect our national identity and cohesiveness -- to fracture America's soul. Even the blatancy of their conspiracy was designed to show their "superiority" and our "futility." "They" were doing to the nation what they had been doing to individuals for years.

Looking into the subject of mind-control, one finds that the scope is wide and methods used are sophisticated. Mind control traces its origins to religious institutional use by priesthoods. Techniques of mind control developed in our western culture were field-tested by the Jesuits, certain Vatican groups, and various mystery religions, secret societies and masonic organizations. Methods tested during the Inquisition were refined by Dr. Josef Mengele during the reign of the Third Reich.

After World War II, thousands of Nazi scientists, researchers and administrators were "smuggled" into the United States against direct written orders from President Harry S. Truman, through Operation Sunrise, Operation Blowback, Operation Paperclip and other covert ops.

Soon afterwards, a mind control project called Marionette Programming imported from Nazi Germany was revived under the new name, "Project Monarch." The basic component of the Monarch program is the sophisticated manipulation of the mind, using extreme trauma to induce Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), now known as Disassociative Disorder.

In public testimony submitted to the President's Committee on Radiation, there are amazing allegations of severe torture and inhumane pogroms foisted upon Americans and other citizens, especially as children. These same children were used in radiation experiments. They detail the drug and traumatic methodology of sophisticated mind control. Candy Jones and Cathy O'Brien tell similar stories of brutal mind control experimentation as part of the CIA's MKULTRA program. Many mind control survivors speak of a "Dr. Greene." Some researchers have identified Dr. Greene as the infamous Dr. Mengele.

But mind control programs and assassinations are merely part of a much larger "enterprise" being carried out by an international network of power interests. In 1995, a researcher-lawyer anonymously posted his ten-year investigation of this conspiracy on the Internet. Calling the JFK assassination part of a 50-year conspiracy, he detailed the structure of this international network, which he named "the group." The inner workings and "New World Order" agenda of this group fit snugly with what other researchers have called the Illuminati.[/quote]

Well, that's an interesting take on things. MONARCH appears to be the one associated most with serious behavior modification - through trauma conditioning, hypnosis, chemicals, etc. Multiple locations throughout the US and Canada have been associated with the training facilities - as per survivors. The ultimate bad guy in Canada appears to have been Cameron Ewen. http://www.raven1.net/cameron.htm Who is the ultimate bad guy in the US?

http://www.whale.to/b/mengele.html

[quote]"Mengele was in Dallas during the killing of JFK, which was achieved by trained Monarch slaves. (In fact, the Beaumont, TX Enterprise on Mon. April 10, ’94 in the Metro Sect. B, on page B cont. to 4b reports that a sworn affidavit exists where a man connects Joseph Mengele with Kennedy’s death and to have seen Mengele at the Texas Book Depository.) Luis Angel Castillo was just one of the Monarch mind-controlled slaves sent to kill JFK on Nov. 22, ’63. A woman from Germany named Mrs. Krebs, along with a host of other programmers, worked with Mengele on the Kennedy assassination."[/quote]

A bold claim. Mengele is supposed to be confined in Paraguay or someplace at this time - despite the many claims to the contrary by many Monarch survivors - who claimed he was travelling about the US and Canada using a number of aliases and - like Dr. Green, Dr. Black and Father Joseph, for example.

http://www.angelfire...nton/green.html

[quote]MENGELE told my informant THAT HE personally did the training on Oswald. Location unknown, but we suspect Mexico City in Summer, 1963. [The] CIA gave John Marks [Search for Manchurian Candidate] what appears to be a real hokey, perhaps forged or fabricated, "field report" for the initial field test of an unconscious assassin in Mexico City in July, 1963 [see Marks' book, p. 190]. I suspect that if someone can get that file and bust a few balls, they'll find the memo given to Marks in his FOIA litigation was a substitute for one that named Oswald and depicted a successful 'experiment.'[/quote]

Okay - this writer claims that it was 'successful.' In hindsight, it appears it was anything but? It certainly does not appear to jive with the way Nagell assumed it did. But Nagell was sitting in Prison when it all went down, so his view is based upon his own information, and what he believes might have transpired on the basis of what he knew.

[quote]Discovers Patsy undergoing hypnotherapy by ex-ferry pilot named Hairy De Fairy [David Ferrie]. Reports to Abe [Unknown] things are for real, yes siree! Abe passes info on to Dirty Dick (and Snerd). Snerd passes info on to Big Mother Busher. Somebody flashes word back for Zero [Nagell] to let go with well-aimed arrow in Patsy's rump . . . leave Yanquis Land, hubba hubba! Zero chickens out day he is to arrow Patsy, six days before Xmas present to be delivered [different plan in Sept]. Pens Abe nasty note. Pens Snerd nastier note. Pens Dirty Dick even nastier note. Also pens note to Boss of Yanquis Land's Main Secret Police Bureau [Hoover], tattles on Xmas Present Caper, tattles on Patsy [Oswald], etc. Burns butt again. Searches in vain for cake of ice to sit on. Winds up in Friendship Province Halfway House [Jail].

End of lead? Not hardly.

Apparently something amiss. Xmas Present Caper does not come off per schedule. Delta Club disintegrates. Bravo Club Xmas Present Committee disintegrates. Abe drops out of sight. Dirty Dick is mum. Snerd crawls back inside Big Mother Busher's womb, dies. De Fairy puts on falseface, hides at 3330 Clubhouse, gets whipped. Director of large pharmaceutical combine gives order for increased production of cyanide capsules. Boss of Main Secret Police Bureau sits in office, drums fingers on desk, waits. Zero is still in Friendship Province Halfway House, getting older . . . if not wiser.

End of lead? . . . Not hardly.

Day of Infamy arrives! Patsy crouched at open window, armed with second-hand crossbow, quiver filled with curare-tipped arrows slung across shoulder. ZIP! ZIP! ZIP! BANG! ZIP! BANG! ZIP! BANG!
End of lead? . . . Not hardly.

Patsy awakens from hypnotic trance. Says, "What am I doing here?" Wonders what cyanide capsule is doing clenched between teeth? Wonders what cloak and dagger is doing on window sill? Wonders why floor of room is lettered with pro-Castor Oil pamphlets? Wonders how chicken bones got in lunch pail? Memory returns. Patsy flees. Refuses ride by former Bravo boyfriend driving by in utility truck bearing Bell Telephone Company markings. Catches bus instead.[/quote]

The 'curare' tipped arrows bit is curious. I wish I could ask Nagelle what he was implying here. Figuratively speaking - frangible rounds? FMJ rounds dipped in chemicals?

Amazingly, T. Casey Brennan relates the following as non-fiction:

http://karws.gso.uri...Conjurella.html

[quote]The next thing I remember is David Ferrie yelling "There's the signal!" Immediately, we were hustled into the hallway, with him carrying a suitcase. We walk rapidly down to the second floor. I do not yet know that the President has been shot, in spite of the fact that I've just witnessed it, and participated in it. My head is coming together a little now, and I say groggily that I'd like to see Lee now that we're in Dallas."
"You'll see him," says David Ferrie, then: "Casey, you never believe me on these things, but they don't even remember you. We slipped them something. You'll see."
We see Lee in the halls of the second floor, sweeping. I say, "Hi, Lee!" but he doesn't even look toward me. Immediately, David ferrie starts yelling at him: "I've got some friends here and I'm telling you we're through with you, you dumb sonofabitch, you goddamned fairy, yeah you goddamned fairy..." I don't remember it all, but in the end, David Ferrie pushes Lee in the chest hard. I am embarrassed by this hostility toward a man I intended to meet as a friend. Lee is stoical, tight-lipped, and condescending, like he's just barely putting up with this abuse.
During this, people run by, and a woman yells, "Something's going on out there!"
Lee starts to walk away, and David Ferrie says, "Where are you going?"
Lee says: "I'm going downstairs for a Coke." The altercation with David Ferrie has prevented Lee from learning that the President has been shot.
As Lee walks away, I step forward apologetically, and say. "Er...uh...Lee, the new Justice League comic came out..."
He looks at me blankly, and keeps walking. I feel my face redden. What could I have done wrong?[/quote]

What's the signal? Dot Dot Dot Dash?

Most of the info, or disinfo as the case may be - that has emerged over time [Factor, for example] does not have Oswald as a shooter that day.

http://spychiatrists...ry_eugenics.htm

[quote]The ambiguous rationale for the MK-Ultra program was the search for the Manchurian Candidate: to study, emulate, and counterbalance communist programs which brainwash people who could be dangerous to our national security. These programs were secret, and masses of MK-Ultra records were destroyed. But some aspects of the program's direct testing have been divulged. CIA executive Morse Allen worked at creating killers under hypnosis on and around Feb. 19, 1954. The CIA planned early in 1954 to hypnotize a man they considered disposable, to get him to make an assassination attempt, be arrested for attempted murder, and be "thereby disposed of.''

A CIA hypnosis study was done by Alden Sears at the University of Minnesota and was moved by Sears to the University of Denver, Colorado. Sears worked to answer the question, "Could a hypnotist induce a totally separate personality? CIA counterintelligence chief James Jesus Angleton, a leader of the British intelligence faction in the American intelligence community, established three goals for the hypnosis program: 1) to induce hypnosis very rapidly in unwitting subjects; 2) to create durable amnesia; and 3) to implant durable and operationally useful post-hypnotic suggestion. A test of rapid hypnosis took place in July 1963. The counterintelligence staff in Washington, D.C. asked the CIA station in Mexico City to find a suitable candidate for a rapid induction experiment. The station proposed a low-level agent, whom the Soviets had apparently doubled. A counterintelligence man flew in from Washington and a hypnotic consultant arrived from California. The experiment was said to have misfired.
According to CIA hypnosis expert Milton Klein, creating a hypnotized "patsy'' is easier than making a totally controlled Manchurian Candidate. The patsy can be induced by hypnosis to do things which later show up as circumstantial evidence that will get him falsely blamed for a crime. Klein has claimed he can create a patsy in three months; a full-scale Manchurian Candidate takes six months.[/quote]

Sounds interesting. Couldn't be David Atlee Phillips and Ozzie the Rabbit could it?

#8 William Kelly

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 08:47 PM


While his name escapes me at the moment, the jet inventor was assigned to work with General Dynamics in Conn. to develop a new swift boat that the anti-Castro Cuban raiders could use in their attacks along the Cuban coast.


Do you mean Hans Ohain. After studying at the University of Gottingen he was employed by Ernst Heinkel, the German aircraft builder. In 1939 Ohain developed the HE 178. With its centrifugal-flow turbojet engine, the plane made its first flight on 27th August, 1939. Ohain followed this success by building the HeS 8A which was first flown on 2nd April, 1941 and the Heinkel He 162 that appeared in 1945.

After the Second World War Ohain emigrated to the United States where he worked on jet aircraft for the US Air Force. Hans Ohain died in Florida on 13th March, 1998.

http://www.spartacus...uk/GERohain.htm


No, John,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you on this but I had to dig through some records to find it.

Dr. Alex Lipisch, who developed the ME163 Komet jet, came in to USA via Paperclip and worked for Collins Radio, according to their 1963-64 yearly reports. He seems out of his element however, assigned to a radio communications company and working with General Dynamics on the hull design of a new, light, swift boat, that was supposed to be used against Cuba but went to Vietnam instead.

BK

Edited by William Kelly, 09 August 2006 - 08:59 PM.


#9 Shanet Clark

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 09:28 PM

The U.S. Army War College History of World War II describes ASHCAN, DUSTBIN and PAPERCLIP as scientific sweep-ups ... where patents, formulas, alloys, technical data, and individuals with said knowledge, were all collected and transferred over to US control.

The Army Historians admit 750 individuals were laundered through the US Occupation to the U.S.
These old naxis ended up in DOW, GULF, DUPONT, RAND and other early global US conglomerate's cover.

The secretiveness, the limited record and the obvious links to MK projects and mind control at CIA make this salient.

OPERATION PAPERCLIP, ASHCAN and DUSTBIN were in effect the bridge between old Nazis from IG FARBEN and the post war cold war international oil and chemical industry, and the CIA was their plaything.............

Edited by Shanet Clark, 10 August 2006 - 09:30 PM.


#10 Mark Valenti

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 09:41 PM

Wasn't there a strange little man named Carmel Offie involved in routing Nazis after WWII?

MV

#11 Lee Forman

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 12:11 AM

The U.S. Army War College History of World War II describes ASHCAN, DUSTBIN and PAPERCLIP as scientific sweep-ups ... where patents, formulas, alloys, technical data, and individuals with said knowledge, were all collected and transferred over to US control.

The Army Historians admit 750 individuals were laundered through the US Occupation to the U.S.
These old naxis ended up in DOW, GULF, DUPONT, RAND and other early global US conglomerate's cover.

The secretiveness, the limited record and the obvious links to MK projects and mind control at CIA make this salient.

OPERATION PAPERCLIP, ASHCAN and DUSTBIN were in effect the bridge between old Nazis from IG FARBEN and the post war cold war international oil and chemical industry, and the CIA was their plaything.............


What a great post Shanet. Don't forget the significance of Blowback also. The Army Historians appear to be 'mistaken.' Do they have anything to say about Mengele being seen here there and everywhere when he was supposed to be in South America? Or do you have to ask the Air Force Historians that question.

http://www.auschwitz...engele/id17.htm

Today it seems that Nazi war criminals escaped to Argentina using false identities supplied by the Red Cross, the humanitarian organisation has admitted. The International Committee of the Red Cross has said it unwittingly provided travel papers to at least 10 top Nazis, including Adolf Eichmann, Klaus Barbie, Erich Priebke and Josef Mengele ... A statement issued by the ICRC, from its Geneva headquarters, said they were among thousands of people found in refugee camps who were given Red Cross travel documents.



The check is in the mail.
I won't raise your taxes.
We never experimented on children.

Quotations
from the book
Blowback
America's recruitment of Nazis,
and its disastrous effect on our domestic and foreign policy
by Christopher Simpson
Collier / Macmillan, 1988


p10
U.S. clandestine operations employing Nazis never did produce the results that were desired when they were initiated, but they did contribute to the influence of some of the most reactionary trends in American political life.
p12
Crimes against humanity, " states the Allied Control Council Law No. 10 of 1945, are "atrocities and offenses, including but not limited to murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation, imprisonment, torture, rape, or other inhuman acts committed against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds...."
p95
U.S. national security planners appear to have concluded that extreme-right-wing groups that had once collaborated with the Nazis should be included in U.S.-sponsored anti-Communist coalitions, for the participation of such groups became a regular feature of U.S. covert operations in Europe ...
p139
The army, air force, and CIA all began competing programs to prepare for the post-nuclear battlefield. This included creation of what eventually came to be called the Special Forces-better known today as the Green Berets-in the army and the air resupply and communications wings in the air force. The job of these units, Prouty explains, was to set up anti-Communist political leaders backed up by guerrilla armies inside the USSR and Eastern Europe in the wake of an atomic war, capture political power in strategic I sections of the country, choke off any remaining Communist resistance, and ensure that the Red Army could not regroup for a counterattack.
p148
The concepts of maintaining "plausible deniability" for the actual murder and of the expendability of the killers themselves are a key to understanding U.S. assassination techniques. In most cases, it appears to have been neither necessary nor practical for U.S. intelligence officers to give precise instructions for murder. Instead, the OPC gave directions to commit assassinations to guerrilla movements in the same simple, sweeping terms that had been used in wartime Yugoslavia.
p150
"We kept personnel at several air bases around the world for these types of missions," says Colonel Prouty, who was responsible for U.S. Air Force air support of CIA missions overseas, including the delivery of agents to their targets and subsequent evacuation measures. "Some of these guys were the best commercial hit men you have ever heard of. [They were] mechanics, killers. They were Ukrainians, mainly, and Eastern Europeans, Greeks, and some Scotsmen. I don't know how the Scotsmen got in there, but there they were.
p155
Before the decade of the 1950s was out, the CIA is known to have established mechanisms for using "deniable" assets and émigrés for the execution of heads of state and other international leaders. These later killings, which are arguably the most serious blunders ever made by the CIA, have created blowback problems on an international scale and have had a significant and generally negative effect on the lives of millions of people.
p179
According to a top secret U.S. State Department intelligence report of May 1947, "the Vatican ... is the largest single organization involved in the illegal movement of emigrants . . . [and] the justification . . . for its participation in this illegal traffic is simply the propagation of the Faith. It is the Vatican's desire to assist any person, regardless of nationality or political beliefs, as long as that person can prove himself to be a Catholic." The classified study confirmed that Nazis and their collaborators were not excluded from the effort: "in those Latin American countries where the Church is a controlling or dominating factor, the Vatican has brought pressure to bear which has resulted in the foreign missions of those countries taking an attitude almost favoring the entry into their country of former Nazis and former Fascists or other political groups, so long as they are anti-Communist. That, in fact, is the practice in effect in the Latin American Consulates and Missions in Rome at the present time."
p201
Hundreds of thousands of decent people of Central and Eastern European heritage entered this country legally during the 1950s, often at the price of great personal sacrifice. But the measures undertaken by the CIA in connection with [National Security Council intelligence directives] NSC 86, NSCID 13, and NSCID 14 led to the infiltration of thousands of Waffen SS veterans and other Nazi collaborators into their communities in the United States at the same time. This in turn laid the foundation for a revival of extremist right-wing political movements inside immigrant communities in this country that continue to be active.p215
Allan Ryan, the former director of the Justice Department's war criminal investigation unit, estimates that nearly 10,000 Nazi war criminals entered the United States during... [the 1950s], although he rejects the suggestion that U.S. intelligence agencies had anything to do with this.
p218
The price tag for the U.S. arms buildup, according to Paul Nitze, who drafted most of the main policy statements on the issue, was some $50 billion-almost three times the then existing U.S. military budget. The real question for U.S. policymakers of the day, write Walter Isaacson and Evan Thomas in their study of American foreign policy formulation The Wise Men, "was whether Congress and the Administration would pay for it. The public had to be persuaded. The way to do that, Nitze knew from experience, was to scare them; to tell them that the Soviets were intent on world domination, that they were poised to attack, and that the U.S. had to meet them everywhere."
It was in this context that the CIA launched a major propaganda effort in the United States. Despite a legal prohibition against domestic activities by the agency, it initiated a multimillion-dollar publicity project in this country called the Crusade for Freedom.
p247
The fact that a man might have been a mass murderer did not by itself disqualify him from working for the agency [CIA] if he was believed to be useful.
p288
In the final analysis, the cold war became the means for tens-of-thousands of Nazi criminals to avoid responsibility for the murders they had committed. The breakdown of East-West cooperation in the prosecution of war criminals-motivated, again, in part by the short-term interests of the intelligence agencies of both sides in protecting their clandestine operations assets-provided both the means for criminals to escape to the West and the alibis for them to use once they arrived here. "Nazi criminals," as Simon Wiesenthal has commented, "were the principal beneficiaries of the Cold War."
p290
There are moments in history when small events clarify much bigger patterns, and such is the case with the CIA's enlistment of Nazis during the 1940s and 1950s.
Here one sees the extent of the corruption of American ideals that has taken place in the name of fighting communism. No one, it seems, not even Adolf Eichmann's personal staff, was too tainted to be rejected by the CIA's recruiters, at least as long as his relationship with the U.S. government could be kept secret.
The American people deserve better from their government. There is nothing to be gained by permitting U.S. intelligence agencies to continue to conceal the true scope of their association with Nazi criminals in the wake of World War II.


That last statement is absurd.

Col. L. FLETCHER PROUTY writes:

I have been reading and enjoying "Free Thinking"... With TV destroying the minds of the younger generation and making parrots out of the rest, what we need as much as anything is to reach the minds of the people and jolt them into good use.

Then just as I came across that idea, from the title of the newsletter, what do I see a few lines below but the name of the great elephant hunter, Jolly West. Sometime In 1955 when I went into the Pentagon after my three years in the Far East during the Korean War, I was assigned to the Unconventional Warfare Division of the headquarters Air Force. It didn't take long to find that one of their "boys" was Major Jolyn West. He and his cohorts were characters: Jim Monroe, Bob Biderman -- or was it Dick? -- Ewen Cameron and others.

This was the era of Big Switch and Little Switch as they were getting back the POW's from Korea. They created the story that the men had been "Brainwashed." Brainwashed was a new term then, and you know all about that. A great RAND project.

I was being assigned to a new function, i.e. support of the CIA, and my new offices were being built; so I had to stay at a desk in the same rooms with those guys. Actually it was educational. These were the MKULTRA, ARTICOKE and other games, days. I used to be sent to the meetings. At one MKULTRA meeting I heard a senior CIA type ask the creatures from Ft. Detrich, "Don't you believe it will be possible to create an ethnic weapon?" I was in good company. I believe that the money Dr. MacArthur got from Congress in 1969 was what paid for the "AIDs" "weapon," and its antidote. If you are on the team you have the antidote... just as Armageddon has prophecized these past many centuries... the favored 12,000 each of the twelve tribes. ( Have you read the book, "TRIBES" by Joel Kotkin. It's worth it, and prophetic.)

About your headline: "Nazi Scientists on the Faculty of Penn"... If you check the official "Biographical Directory of Fellows and Members of the American (yes, American) Psychiatric Ass'n" you will discover that of its 7,104 members listed in 1957 a total of 1,253 came from Germany and the Eastern European countries: For example, German/ Austrian 458, Russian 180, Poland 130, U.K. 108, Hungary 62...etc. And they said, "American." No wonder they are on the Penn Campus and all over the country. That was only 1957.
I operated the aircraft for "Blowback" the project that followed "Paperclip." We flew thousands from Europe to Andrews Air Base."


Ayep - Quite a character that Ewen Cameron.

Edited by Lee Forman, 11 August 2006 - 12:16 AM.


#12 Lee Forman

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 05:32 PM

[/quote]

I am currently reseaching a book on things not far removed from 'Paperclip' et al. There were many interconnecting Operations - some still names unknown to 'exploit' Nazi patents, persons, technology, etc. Gehlen and his Org was interconnected; The theft of some of the Nazi Gold was; and more.... Mengele was IMO used through cut-outs to work on US military and intelligence 'medical' and torture techniques - as were others. He was later in Brazil and perhaps Madeira at points. Some of the Nazi 'doctors' wound up at Colonia Dignidad in S. Chile - run by old Nazis with the consent of DINA and with sub-contracts through cut-outs to the CIA and others. Nice stuff, this. While not listed as a Papercliper, don't forget that Dornberger was first taken to prison for interrogations in the London area, then given a get out of jail free card and brought to America...where he eventually became a senior figure in Bell Aviation in Dallas and had working directly under him one Michael Paine...but that is of course just another coincidence.....no doubt......In fact the OSS, CIC, Military G2 and other figures at the helm behind many of these projects have become the same persons we suspect of Dallas, and many of the other suspicious things that have gone on since. Many of the Nazis brought into the 'fold' and moved West did so from a special OSS/CIC/G2 operation in Oberammergau where a Henry Kissinger was in training....to name but one coincidence more. My research shows many more such 'coincidences'...some quite startling. At the time Mengele was 'found dead and buried' a good friend of mine was actually watching him alive through binoculars and proved the man he was watching was Mengele [using fingerprint match]. His story to the LA Times about this was written and presses rolling....presses stopped and article pulled and replaced...it never showed up in print. Posner was then given the job of writing the definitive [false] book on Mengele....so when Posner surfaced on JFK I didn't have to read it to know it was a CIA-backed lie. There is a real history and an 'official' history and sadly they don't align on many important points.
[/quote]

Hi Peter!

Thanks for that - yes. There is a website which contains the various sightings by survivors of Mengele - in the US and Canada. Allegedly the kind of genius and the techniques he had developed were apparently something that apparently could not be wasted, and as the pressure was on to learn how to control human behavior, create sleeping assassins, etc. Allegedly Mengele had the knowledge, and apparently he wasn't sharing much. Allegedly he went by a number of aliases.

There is a newspaper article someone is trying to help me to find. It concerns an individual who alleges to have seen Mengele in Dallas, 11/22/63. I haven't seen it, so it's hard to say anything more about it. Further, there is the claim made - which I believe I posted here someplace - that alleges that Mengele himself was involved in the rapid induction procedure with Oswald, who was apparently a low level agent that had been doubled by a Soviet agent. The reason for Oswald's seeking employment as an electrician in the State Hospital would then make a great deal of sense if it was true that there was an MK ward there. Further, I think it's a unfair to consider David Ferrie as a fool.

The film JFK rendered David Ferrie as a clown. Everything I have read and seen suggests the complete opposite - a commander, a genius, brilliant - more than simply a 'dabbler' in hypnosis. The selection of Joe Pesci in the casting for this role is intriguing.

For consideration: As per the conversation overheard at the airport in Winnipeg between a man thought to be David Ferrie and a man thought to be Louis Mortimer Bloomfield...

[quote]"On the afternoon of Feb. 13th my client, a salesman, had an appointment to meet a customer at the new International Airport. My client arrived early and sat in the cocktail lounge to have a drink. After finishing his drink he walked around the new building...then returned to the same table...Immediately behind him were seated two men who were not there previously...he could overhear them talking about the Oswald case. One of the men was wondering 'how much Oswald really knew' and 'how much does she know.' [This was undoubtedly a reference to Marina, who had testified before the Warren Commission on Feb. 4; her photo was on the cover of the most recent issue of Time.] A name was mentioned -- sounding like 'Isaacs' -- who was apparently seen on film after the landing.' [The FBI later wrote 'Love Field' next to this comment in the six-page report.] Further conversation could be heard in bits and pieces, such as...'if Oswald is found guilty the bureau will not stop investigation.' They talked about 'merchandise coming from Nevada...too risky in the past months. We'll have to close shop temporarily.' My client couldn't hear everything too clearly about the next matter but it related (to) the subject of 'mercury'."[/quote]

Torbitt

[quote]Gary Underhill, a CIA agent with Walter Kostow and Harold R. Isaacs at the Center for International Studies at MIT, told friends in early 1964 in New York that a group within the U.S. Intelligence agencies had planned and brought about the death of John Kennedy and that he was going to expose them. A few days later he was found dead in his apartment in Washington, D.C., a bullet in his head behind his left ear - but Underhill was right handed.

Harold R. Isaacs, ex-Newsweek Magazine editor, was the subject of a suppressed Warren Commission document.[/quote]

http://www.barefoots...t/tavistok.html

[quote]The ideology of American foundations was created by the Tavistock Institute of Human Relations in London. In 1921, the Duke of Bedford, Marquess of Tavistock, the 11th Duke, gave a building to the Institute to study the effect of shellshock on British soldiers who survived World War I. Its purpose was to establish the "breaking point" of men under stress, under the direction of the British Army Bureau of Psychological Warfare, commanded by Sir John Rawlings-Reese.

Tavistock Institute is headquartered in London. Its prophet, Sigmond Freud, settled in Maresfield Gardens when he moved to England. He was given a mansion by Princess Bonaparte. Tavistock's pioneer work in behavioral science along Freudian lines of "controlling" humans established it as the world center of foundation ideology. Its network now extends from the University of Sussex to the U.S. through the Stanford Research Institute, Esalen, MIT, Hudson Institute, Heritage Foundation, Center of Strategic and International Studies at Georgetown, where State Dept. personal are trained, US Air Force Intelligence, and the Rand and Mitre corporations. The personnel of the corporations are required to undergo indoctrination at one or more of these Tavistock controlled institutions. A network of secret groups, the Mont Pelerin Society, Trilateral Commission, Ditchley Foundation, and the Club of Rome is conduit for instructions to the Tavistock network.

Tavistock Institute developed the mass brain-washing techniques which were first used experimentally on American prisoners of war in Korea. Its experiments in crowd control methods have been widely used on the American public, a surreptitious but nevertheless outrageous assault on human freedom by modifying individual behavior through topical psychology. A German refugee, Kurt Lewin, became director of Tavistock in 1932. He came to the U.S. in 1933 as a "refugee", the first of many infiltrators, and set up the Harvard Psychology Clinic, which originated the propaganda campaign to turn the American public against Germany and involve us in World War II. In 1938, Roosevelt executed a secret agreement with Churchill which in effect ceded U.S. sovereignty to England, because it agreed to let Special Operations Executive control U.S. policies. To implement this agreement, Roosevelt sent General Donovan to London for indoctrination before setting up OSS (now the CIA) under the aegis of SOE-SIS. The entire OSS program, as well as the CIA has always worked on guidelines set up by the Tavistock Institute.

...

MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY, ALFRED P. SLOAN SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT
This major institute is not generally recognized as being a part of Tavistock U.S.A. Most people look upon it as being a purely American institution, but that is far from the truth. MIT- Alfred Sloan can be roughly divided into the following groups:

Contemporary Technology
Industrial Relations
NASA-ERC Computer Research Labatories
Office of Naval Research Group, Psychology
Systems Dynamics[/quote]

More coincidences... :blink:


- lee

#13 Lee Forman

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 06:09 PM

Wasn't there a strange little man named Carmel Offie involved in routing Nazis after WWII?

MV


Interesting Mark. Thanks for that. From Carol Rutz' article. An interesting take that some German scientists would seek to elude Paperclip. Offie worked for Wisner, according to Rutz, and was able to get carte blanche on his emigrees. Must be nice to be King.

http://whale.to/b/ruzt4.html

Gottlieb's choice of a home seemed to be no coincidence. Such a highly placed, valuable asset would be privy to many secrets other than those having to do with "Mind Control." As Ted Gup reports in the Washington Post, "Gottlieb had emerged as a kind of Dr. Strangelove. He had overseen a vast network of psychological and medical experiments conducted in hospitals, universities, research labs, prisons and safe houses, many of them carried out on unsuspecting subjects-mental patients, prostitutes and their johns, drug addicts, and anyone else who stumbled into the CIA's web. Some had been subjected to electroshock therapy in an effort to alter their behavior. Some endured prolonged sensory deprivation. Some were doped and made to sleep for weeks in an attempt to induce an amnesia-like state. Others suffered a relentless loop of audiotape playing the same message hundreds of thousands of times."

Gottlieb's obituary in the Times of London began, 'When Churchill spoke of a world 'made darker by the dark lights of perverted science' he was referring to the revolting experiments conducted on human beings by Nazi doctors in the concentration camps. But his remarks might with equal justice have been applied to the activities of the CIA's Sidney Gottlieb.'

Along with Gottlieb's close proximity to Mount Pony, we have another key figure who lived nearby. Intimately involved in MKULTRA intrigue and the emigration of former Nazis into the US. through the CIA-funded OPC (Office of Policy Coordination) in the State Department was Carmel Offie. He lived less than 20 miles from Sidney Gottlieb on a sizable farm in Markham, Virginia. He handed me over to Allen Dulles and Sidney Gottlieb in 1952 for my first experiments and torture when I was 4 years old. In 1946 Offie was putting together reports on the movement of German scientists from the American Zone into France, individuals who had eluded Paperclip. In the spring of 1948 Carmel was working in Frankfurt at USPOLAD. Burton Hersh reports in The Old Boys, that "One of Offie's functions at POLAD had been to rake through the flotsam churned up by the postwar disorder—the defunctive Nazi exluminaries and cutthroat émigré politicians and paper mill impresarios of promise—and help the CIC and others plug legitimate experts in around the emerging Cold-War bureaucracies."

According to Hersh, Carmel Offie was "doubling as a kind of booking agent for many of the refugee scholars" that the U.S. was interested in obtaining. He went to work for Frank Wisner who got Congress to pass the One-Hundred-a Year CIA Act, which allowed Offie to bring in, unmonitored, a hundred refugees each year with their dossiers "Sanitized." Offie was Wisner's special assistant for labor and migratory affairs. He personally oversaw the National Committee for Free Europe, which passed OPC money to anti-Communist unions in Europe



#14 Shanet Clark

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 07:35 PM

I am sorry, who was handed over to Carmel Offie
and into the Sidney Gottlieb MK programs at age four?

also, Lee, the War College series is a limited hang out and a partial whitewash.

Put 750 as the low number, 10,000 as a realistic guess and Bo Gritz's "20,000" as the high end,

as far as counting the old nazis who were brought into the states for their technical expertise.



10,000 old nazis can come up with some interesting programs,

perhaps AIDS, the SLA, Hinckley and Manchurian Candidates, etc.........

#15 Lee Forman

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 09:52 PM

I am sorry, who was handed over to Carmel Offie
and into the Sidney Gottlieb MK programs at age four?

also, Lee, the War College series is a limited hang out and a partial whitewash.

Put 750 as the low number, 10,000 as a realistic guess and Bo Gritz's "20,000" as the high end,

as far as counting the old nazis who were brought into the states for their technical expertise.



10,000 old nazis can come up with some interesting programs,

perhaps AIDS, the SLA, Hinckley and Manchurian Candidates, etc.........


That is the claim made by Carol Rutz.

http://www.whale.to/b/rutz_h.html

"Shadow Government was indeed an appropriate name for the people who
would move behind the scenes TO ENLIST CHILDREN to fight the Cold War
for them by making them guinea pigs, and in some cases HYPNOTIZED
OPERATIVES, spies, assassins and couriers."

Difficult to ignore the frequency: Rutz, Brennan, McKenna, Hersha and boatloads of more - keyword: survivors.

The irony is that when some of these folks come forward, thinking that perhaps they are risking their lives or the lives of their loved ones by deciding to tell the truth - everyone mocks them and ignores them as loonies.

- lee




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