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The Death of Jack Ruby


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#1 John Simkin

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 08:52 AM

Examination of ex-Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko, has suggested he was poisoned with some form of radioactive material. Is it possible that the same method was used to kill Jack Ruby?

#2 Wim Dankbaar

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 09:19 AM

Ruby was injected with a cancer causing virus, just like he said he was.

Wim

#3 Myra Bronstein

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 09:57 AM

Examination of ex-Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko, has suggested he was poisoned with some form of radioactive material. Is it possible that the same method was used to kill Jack Ruby?


Hm, well here's the description of Ruby's illness from John's site:

"And so Jack Ruby, on December 9, 1966, - exactly one day after he had learned that his new trial was going to be held in February or March 1967 at Wichita Falls, about 140 miles from Dallas - was stricken with a mysterious disease first diagnosed as a common cold, then as pneumonia and finally as generalized cancer.

For more than three years, with a death sentence hanging over his dead for most of the time, Ruby had been as fit as a fiddle in the custody of Dallas Sheriff Bill Decker. At no time before December 9, had the prison doctor who visited him regularly, detected any flaw in Ruby's splendid health. But now, with a new trial in prospect in a different place, death quickly overtook the man who knew perhaps more than any other living person (with the possible exception of David Ferrie, then still totally unknown to the public at large) about the real background to the assassination. He passed away in the morning of January 3, 1967 - and another inconvenient trial was happily averted."
http://www.spartacus....uk/JFKruby.htm

And a description of thallium poisoning:

"On New Year’s Day in 1988, Abdullah Ali, an Iraqi businessman who had been living in London for eight years, joined three compatriots for dinner at a restaurant called Cleopatra in Notting Hill. The next morning, he was taken ill with flu-like symptoms and was admitted to hospital. There his condition rapidly deteriorated — his hair fell out, he developed excruciating skin and joint pain, and paralysis and respiratory failure began to set in. Fifteen days later he was dead.
...
Early symptoms are similar to flu and gastroenteritis. This is followed by extreme band-like pain around the body, particularly in the feet and joints. The cause of death is usually heart or respiratory failure, as the nervous system collapses. It is an attractive tool for murder because it is soluble in water, colourless and virtually tasteless and odourless. A fatal dose can also be given in one go and the body is not good at excreting the toxin by itself."
http://www.timesonli...2461655,00.html

Certainly seems possible. The cold/flu like symptoms Ruby supposedly suffered (if we can depend on accounts of his symptoms) are described in the thallium poisonings, but wouldn't seem to jibe with cancer. Ruby's death, after about three weeks, seems awfully fast for cancer but about right for thallium.

Good chart here for time range and symptoms:
http://www.portfolio...p29/thaltox.htm

#4 Wim Dankbaar

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 10:07 AM

http://jfkmurdersolv.../rubycancer.jpg


There was only a month time between his getting ill and his death. That's galloping cancer.

It was injected.

Judyth explains that a test on a unwitting volunteer prisoner took 28 days for the patient to die.

Ruby knew about this cancer project. That's why he tried to convince his guards. Of course he failed.

Wim

#5 Greg Parker

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 11:18 AM

From alternative ruby timeline

The number one cause of lung cancer is cigarette smoking, representing 85 to 90 percent of all cases. Other causes include exposure to radon, asbestos, nickel, chloromethyl ether, chromium, beryllium and arsenic (a by-product of copper), as well as exposure to passive smoke or "second-hand" smoke. A person is "at risk" of developing lung cancer if they: smoke; are over the age of 50; work in industries where substances such as asbestos, nickel, chloromethyl ether, chromium, beryllium or arsenic are used; have or have had a lung disease; have a family history of lung cancer; are former smokers; have been exposed to second-hand smoke over many years or; have been exposed to radon. (Tenet Health Care Corporation Library) As a non-smoker, Ruby’s only risk factors would, on the surface, appear to be his age, and long-term exposure to second-hand smoke. In jail, Ruby reported to one of his psychiatrists, Dr Manfred Guttmacher, that he had been to see Dr Ulevich on November 11, 1963 due to a bronchial cough. Dr Ulevitch took x-rays, but Ruby had been too busy to get the results. He believed he had "walking pneumonia". (DPD JFK files) The previously mentioned, Dr Walter Bromberg, stated in his report that Ruby had felt he suffered pneumonia on and off for a number of years. (DPD JFK files) It was a diagnosis of pneumonia, as we have seen, which resulted in Ruby being sent to Parkland Hospital. "Walking pneumonia" is caused by mycoplasma – the smallest free-living organism known to man. One of the characteristics of these tiny organisms is their ability to completely mimic or copy the protein of the host cell which can cause the immune system to attack the body’s own cells; an event that happens in all auto-immune diseases. First isolated in humans in 1932, it was not until the 1950s that one strain was identified as the cause of atypical ("walking") pneumonia. (Web Article: Mycoplasmas - Stealth Pathogens). Before death, Ruby’s cancer had spread to both his liver and his brain. This tends to rule out second-hand smoke as the culprit because although small cell lung cancer is the type that spreads quickly to other organs, it is most often found in people who are themselves heavy smokers. (Rhodes Island Cancer Council). What we are left with then, is some other carcinogen as the probable cause. Beryllium is one logical answer given beryllium dust shuts down the immune system, allowing the lungs to be damaged, and tumors to form and spread to other organs. It also creates ideal conditions for mycoplasma to thrive. (The Unified Health Physics Modelling Scientific Report). It is not a stretch to suggest that Ruby may have first come into contact with beryllium whilst in the Army Air Force and stationed at Farmingdale where the F-12 was being built, since this heavy metal is much used in the aviation and space industries. His association with the National Research Corporation through John C Jackson provides a second possibility for beryllium exposure to have occurred. The NRC was named in a May 25, 2001 report issued by the US General Accounting Office as being one of the locations where beryllium was used or detected. The evidence however, points only to low grade exposure in the 1950‘s (and possibly back to the 1940‘s), causing atypical recurring pneumonia, and a weakened immune system rather than cancerous tumors (which would have required a higher exposure): nothing lethal if he kept fit and otherwise healthy. That Ruby was a health and fitness fanatic indicates he may have had some knowledge of his exposure. So what did happened to trigger his cancer ? Alan Adelson tells us in "The Ruby Oswald Affair" that Jack’s sister, Eva Grant, first noticed Jack’s illness as early as June, 1966 , and that by September, he was throwing up every day. If his illness was evident in June 1966, then it is feasible that the onset of cancer coincided with Dr Jolyon West’s visit in April, 1964 to administer hypnosis and drugs (refer to note 10). This was the month after the trial ended, and when appeals would be in full swing. It is unfortunately common for such a period of time to pass between onset and when symptoms become manifest. In this case, it took another 7 months after the onset of symptoms before a diagnosis of lung cancer was made. It is possible, but unlikely, that Ruby had the cancer prior to the assassination. This is because of the x rays Dr Ulevitch took of Ruby’s chest on November 11. Though not fool proof, most lung cancer patients show an abnormal x ray. (Cancerline UK). It is widely known that Ruby believed injections he was being given, were cancer cells. He truly believed he was being murdered in this most unusual manner. And why would he not be paranoid about such a possibility since in January 1964, it was widely reported that elderly patients at the Jewish Chronic Disease Hospital in Brooklyn had been injected with live cancer cells as part of an experiment conducted by two eminent physicians from Sloan-Kettering? A court battle over the records of patients involved kept the story bubbling until at least 1966. Deputy sheriff Al Maddox claimed to researchers in the 1980s that the doctor who gave Ruby the injections was from Chicago. Though not from Chicago, Alan Adelson said he had met with Dr Jolyon West in the Windy City to discuss the case. (Earl Ruby HSCA testimony) The last word however, probably should go to the Inspector General in reference to CIA medical experiments: "The risk of compromise of the program through correct diagnosis of an illness by an unwitting medical specialist is regularly considered and is stated to be a governing factor in the decision to conduct a given test. The Bureau officials also maintain close working relations with local police authorities which could be utilized to protect the activity in critical situations." (July 26, 1963 memo from JS Eamon to Director, CIA).

#6 Dave Weaver

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 03:48 PM

Ruby was injected with a cancer causing virus, just like he said he was.

Wim


Wim,
the above sentence should read either:

I believe Ruby was injected with a cancer causing virus, just like he said he was.

or

I know that Ruby was injected with a cancer causing virus, just like he said he was,
and here is the proof.

Which one is it Wim, and if it is the later of the two, care to show us your proof ?


This is the Education forum, don't forget that Wim, not little Annie's place for telling stories
she made up nearly all by herself.

Edited by Dave Weaver, 23 November 2006 - 04:04 PM.


#7 John Simkin

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 04:37 PM

The number one cause of lung cancer is cigarette smoking, representing 85 to 90 percent of all cases. Other causes include exposure to radon, asbestos, nickel, chloromethyl ether, chromium, beryllium and arsenic (a by-product of copper), as well as exposure to passive smoke or "second-hand" smoke. A person is "at risk" of developing lung cancer if they: smoke; are over the age of 50; work in industries where substances such as asbestos, nickel, chloromethyl ether, chromium, beryllium or arsenic are used; have or have had a lung disease; have a family history of lung cancer; are former smokers; have been exposed to second-hand smoke over many years or; have been exposed to radon. (Tenet Health Care Corporation Library) As a non-smoker, Ruby’s only risk factors would, on the surface, appear to be his age, and long-term exposure to second-hand smoke. In jail, Ruby reported to one of his psychiatrists, Dr Manfred Guttmacher, that he had been to see Dr Ulevich on November 11, 1963 due to a bronchial cough. Dr Ulevitch took x-rays, but Ruby had been too busy to get the results. He believed he had "walking pneumonia". (DPD JFK files) The previously mentioned, Dr Walter Bromberg, stated in his report that Ruby had felt he suffered pneumonia on and off for a number of years. (DPD JFK files) It was a diagnosis of pneumonia, as we have seen, which resulted in Ruby being sent to Parkland Hospital. "Walking pneumonia" is caused by mycoplasma – the smallest free-living organism known to man. One of the characteristics of these tiny organisms is their ability to completely mimic or copy the protein of the host cell which can cause the immune system to attack the body’s own cells; an event that happens in all auto-immune diseases. First isolated in humans in 1932, it was not until the 1950s that one strain was identified as the cause of atypical ("walking") pneumonia. (Web Article: Mycoplasmas - Stealth Pathogens). Before death, Ruby’s cancer had spread to both his liver and his brain. This tends to rule out second-hand smoke as the culprit because although small cell lung cancer is the type that spreads quickly to other organs, it is most often found in people who are themselves heavy smokers. (Rhodes Island Cancer Council). What we are left with then, is some other carcinogen as the probable cause. Beryllium is one logical answer given beryllium dust shuts down the immune system, allowing the lungs to be damaged, and tumors to form and spread to other organs. It also creates ideal conditions for mycoplasma to thrive. (The Unified Health Physics Modelling Scientific Report). It is not a stretch to suggest that Ruby may have first come into contact with beryllium whilst in the Army Air Force and stationed at Farmingdale where the F-12 was being built, since this heavy metal is much used in the aviation and space industries. His association with the National Research Corporation through John C Jackson provides a second possibility for beryllium exposure to have occurred. The NRC was named in a May 25, 2001 report issued by the US General Accounting Office as being one of the locations where beryllium was used or detected. The evidence however, points only to low grade exposure in the 1950‘s (and possibly back to the 1940‘s), causing atypical recurring pneumonia, and a weakened immune system rather than cancerous tumors (which would have required a higher exposure): nothing lethal if he kept fit and otherwise healthy. That Ruby was a health and fitness fanatic indicates he may have had some knowledge of his exposure. So what did happened to trigger his cancer ? Alan Adelson tells us in "The Ruby Oswald Affair" that Jack’s sister, Eva Grant, first noticed Jack’s illness as early as June, 1966 , and that by September, he was throwing up every day. If his illness was evident in June 1966, then it is feasible that the onset of cancer coincided with Dr Jolyon West’s visit in April, 1964 to administer hypnosis and drugs (refer to note 10). This was the month after the trial ended, and when appeals would be in full swing. It is unfortunately common for such a period of time to pass between onset and when symptoms become manifest. In this case, it took another 7 months after the onset of symptoms before a diagnosis of lung cancer was made. It is possible, but unlikely, that Ruby had the cancer prior to the assassination. This is because of the x rays Dr Ulevitch took of Ruby’s chest on November 11. Though not fool proof, most lung cancer patients show an abnormal x ray. (Cancerline UK). It is widely known that Ruby believed injections he was being given, were cancer cells. He truly believed he was being murdered in this most unusual manner. And why would he not be paranoid about such a possibility since in January 1964, it was widely reported that elderly patients at the Jewish Chronic Disease Hospital in Brooklyn had been injected with live cancer cells as part of an experiment conducted by two eminent physicians from Sloan-Kettering? A court battle over the records of patients involved kept the story bubbling until at least 1966. Deputy sheriff Al Maddox claimed to researchers in the 1980s that the doctor who gave Ruby the injections was from Chicago. Though not from Chicago, Alan Adelson said he had met with Dr Jolyon West in the Windy City to discuss the case. (Earl Ruby HSCA testimony) The last word however, probably should go to the Inspector General in reference to CIA medical experiments: "The risk of compromise of the program through correct diagnosis of an illness by an unwitting medical specialist is regularly considered and is stated to be a governing factor in the decision to conduct a given test. The Bureau officials also maintain close working relations with local police authorities which could be utilized to protect the activity in critical situations." (July 26, 1963 memo from JS Eamon to Director, CIA).


Sorry I missed that the first time it was posted. Fascinating.

#8 Wim Dankbaar

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 06:21 PM

In terms of proof there is Ruby's own statements and Judyth Baker's background knowledge, plus the fact that he contracted cancer which proved fatal within a month from diagnosis. This is uncommon.

http://jfkmurdersolv.../rubycancer.jpg

#9 Dave Weaver

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 08:36 PM

In terms of proof there is Ruby's own statements and Judyth Baker's background knowledge, plus the fact that he contracted cancer which proved fatal within a month from diagnosis. This is uncommon.

http://jfkmurdersolv.../rubycancer.jpg


Wim,

the way you see things as proven, defies logic, I told you that before, It may serve your
cause or way of thinking, but that doesn't mean it qualifies as factual proof if one follows
the rule of common sense.

example of the way you see things as proven:

Witness A claims to have been abducted by Aliens in the US of A, and to have been
medicaly examined onboard an alien spacecraft.

Witness B claims to have reverse engineered Alien spacecraft on behalf of the
US government and had seen medical equipment and operation tables onboard
the craft.

Conclusion:
Person B proves that claims of person A are truthfull , and that
Alien spacecraft do exist and that there is medical equipment onboard.

What is wrong with that conclusion Wim ?


Provide the x-rays done of Ruby's lungs, then you can eventualy accuse the doctor(s) of making an error
by overlooking the cancer, should the cancer be visible.

Get a cell culture from the cancerous lung material, and see how fast it growths and if there is any
indication that it's Cell DNA was man made.

Provide testimony from the doctor(s) who gave him injections, that they did indeed inject
live cancer cells and wanted to kill him, and you have my full attention.

By using Judyth Baker as your expert witness, you do yourself more harm than good, this lady
has a history of claiming things that she had later to retract (or Howard,Martin on her behalf) and
some even turned out to be fabrications or as Howard and Martin like to label it, she missunderstood
them.

The latest I heard was the claim she was held captive in the Netherlands for a month,
while she forgot to mention that to those she had mail and other contact with during that
time.

Why didn't you save her from captivity then Wim, or did she forget to tell you ?

Edited by Dave Weaver, 23 November 2006 - 09:13 PM.


#10 Myra Bronstein

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 09:47 PM

From alternative ruby timeline

The number one cause of lung cancer is cigarette smoking, representing 85 to 90 percent of all cases. Other causes include exposure to radon, asbestos, nickel, chloromethyl ether, chromium, beryllium and arsenic (a by-product of copper), as well as exposure to passive smoke or "second-hand" smoke. A person is "at risk" of developing lung cancer if they: smoke; are over the age of 50; work in industries where substances such as asbestos, nickel, chloromethyl ether, chromium, beryllium or arsenic are used; have or have had a lung disease; have a family history of lung cancer; are former smokers; have been exposed to second-hand smoke over many years or; have been exposed to radon. (Tenet Health Care Corporation Library) As a non-smoker, Ruby’s only risk factors would, on the surface, appear to be his age, and long-term exposure to second-hand smoke. In jail, Ruby reported to one of his psychiatrists, Dr Manfred Guttmacher, that he had been to see Dr Ulevich on November 11, 1963 due to a bronchial cough. Dr Ulevitch took x-rays, but Ruby had been too busy to get the results. He believed he had "walking pneumonia". (DPD JFK files) The previously mentioned, Dr Walter Bromberg, stated in his report that Ruby had felt he suffered pneumonia on and off for a number of years. (DPD JFK files) It was a diagnosis of pneumonia, as we have seen, which resulted in Ruby being sent to Parkland Hospital. "Walking pneumonia" is caused by mycoplasma – the smallest free-living organism known to man. One of the characteristics of these tiny organisms is their ability to completely mimic or copy the protein of the host cell which can cause the immune system to attack the body’s own cells; an event that happens in all auto-immune diseases. First isolated in humans in 1932, it was not until the 1950s that one strain was identified as the cause of atypical ("walking") pneumonia. (Web Article: Mycoplasmas - Stealth Pathogens). Before death, Ruby’s cancer had spread to both his liver and his brain. This tends to rule out second-hand smoke as the culprit because although small cell lung cancer is the type that spreads quickly to other organs, it is most often found in people who are themselves heavy smokers. (Rhodes Island Cancer Council). What we are left with then, is some other carcinogen as the probable cause. Beryllium is one logical answer given beryllium dust shuts down the immune system, allowing the lungs to be damaged, and tumors to form and spread to other organs. It also creates ideal conditions for mycoplasma to thrive. (The Unified Health Physics Modelling Scientific Report). It is not a stretch to suggest that Ruby may have first come into contact with beryllium whilst in the Army Air Force and stationed at Farmingdale where the F-12 was being built, since this heavy metal is much used in the aviation and space industries. His association with the National Research Corporation through John C Jackson provides a second possibility for beryllium exposure to have occurred. The NRC was named in a May 25, 2001 report issued by the US General Accounting Office as being one of the locations where beryllium was used or detected. The evidence however, points only to low grade exposure in the 1950‘s (and possibly back to the 1940‘s), causing atypical recurring pneumonia, and a weakened immune system rather than cancerous tumors (which would have required a higher exposure): nothing lethal if he kept fit and otherwise healthy. That Ruby was a health and fitness fanatic indicates he may have had some knowledge of his exposure. So what did happened to trigger his cancer ? Alan Adelson tells us in "The Ruby Oswald Affair" that Jack’s sister, Eva Grant, first noticed Jack’s illness as early as June, 1966 , and that by September, he was throwing up every day. If his illness was evident in June 1966, then it is feasible that the onset of cancer coincided with Dr Jolyon West’s visit in April, 1964 to administer hypnosis and drugs (refer to note 10). This was the month after the trial ended, and when appeals would be in full swing. It is unfortunately common for such a period of time to pass between onset and when symptoms become manifest. In this case, it took another 7 months after the onset of symptoms before a diagnosis of lung cancer was made. It is possible, but unlikely, that Ruby had the cancer prior to the assassination. This is because of the x rays Dr Ulevitch took of Ruby’s chest on November 11. Though not fool proof, most lung cancer patients show an abnormal x ray. (Cancerline UK). It is widely known that Ruby believed injections he was being given, were cancer cells. He truly believed he was being murdered in this most unusual manner. And why would he not be paranoid about such a possibility since in January 1964, it was widely reported that elderly patients at the Jewish Chronic Disease Hospital in Brooklyn had been injected with live cancer cells as part of an experiment conducted by two eminent physicians from Sloan-Kettering? A court battle over the records of patients involved kept the story bubbling until at least 1966. Deputy sheriff Al Maddox claimed to researchers in the 1980s that the doctor who gave Ruby the injections was from Chicago. Though not from Chicago, Alan Adelson said he had met with Dr Jolyon West in the Windy City to discuss the case. (Earl Ruby HSCA testimony) The last word however, probably should go to the Inspector General in reference to CIA medical experiments: "The risk of compromise of the program through correct diagnosis of an illness by an unwitting medical specialist is regularly considered and is stated to be a governing factor in the decision to conduct a given test. The Bureau officials also maintain close working relations with local police authorities which could be utilized to protect the activity in critical situations." (July 26, 1963 memo from JS Eamon to Director, CIA).


This is excellent info Greg, thank you.

I don't know enough to have an opinion, but Garrison's book "On the Trail of the Assassins" makes a point of describing the foul smell from Ferrie's apartment due to the large number of mice he kept there for his cancer experiments. I don't have the book in front of me so I can't give the exact quote.

Edited by Myra Bronstein, 23 November 2006 - 09:48 PM.


#11 Greg Parker

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 12:42 PM

This is excellent info Greg, thank you.

I don't know enough to have an opinion, but Garrison's book "On the Trail of the Assassins" makes a point of describing the foul smell from Ferrie's apartment due to the large number of mice he kept there for his cancer experiments. I don't have the book in front of me so I can't give the exact quote.

-MB

Myra, OTTOTA was the second book I read on the case (first was Conspiracy). I'm up to about number 9. Ferrie told 3 or 4 different stories about how he lost his hair. Cancer research was one of the reasons he gave.

Sorry I missed that the first time it was posted. Fascinating.

-JS

John,

Found this today, It shows that there was concern even back then that his cancer was "artificially induced." I haven't seen the report, but needless to say, the FBI would not have found any evidence of this.

ORIGINATOR : FBI
FROM : [No From]
TO : [No To]
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 03/17/1967
PAGES : 2
DOCUMENT TYPE : MEMORANDUM.
SUBJECTS : RUBY, JACK; CANCER ARTIFICIALLY INDUCED.
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 06/04/1993
COMMENTS : Box 15. Section 89.

Also in NARA... confirmation that Eva had noticed he was seriously ill many weeks prior to his trip to Parkland.

Some newspaper reports from Dec '66 that I've just located tend to support what I wrote in the original piece.

From the Long Beach Press Telegram 12dec66:

Ruby... was taken to Parkland Hospital Friday night after being treated for a week by the County Health Officer for a congested, tight-feeling chest. The hospital said he had pneumonia.
----
A malignant tumor was discovered Saturday to have nearly consumed a lymph node in Ruby's neck. The doctors said this signified there were other cites and the cancer had advanced.
----
Whatever the results of this weeks tests [to find where the cancer originated], Dr Sanford said, "I do not expect he will be able to go to court" as early as February for a retrial...


The Nevada State Journal two days later reported...

Cancer has been found in the lining of Ruby's chest, in addition to the lymph node on his neck, where it was originally discovered. Both lungs are filled with suspicious looking nodules. The cancer spread to these areas; physicians are still looking for the place it started.
----
The right lung was collapsed by the pressure of four quarts of fluid that were in his chest cavity when he was taken Friday from the Dallas County jail...
----
Dr Barnett said it was impossible to tell how long Ruby had been suffering from cancer and declined even to speculate whether he may have had it when he killed Oswald.

My time is running out. I am breathing toward my last breath. I was set up and tried the minute I walked down that ramp. - Jack Ruby to reporters, 31mar65.

#12 Thomas H. Purvis

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 06:01 PM


In terms of proof there is Ruby's own statements and Judyth Baker's background knowledge, plus the fact that he contracted cancer which proved fatal within a month from diagnosis. This is uncommon.

http://jfkmurdersolv.../rubycancer.jpg


Wim,

the way you see things as proven, defies logic, I told you that before, It may serve your
cause or way of thinking, but that doesn't mean it qualifies as factual proof if one follows
the rule of common sense.

example of the way you see things as proven:

Witness A claims to have been abducted by Aliens in the US of A, and to have been
medicaly examined onboard an alien spacecraft.

Witness B claims to have reverse engineered Alien spacecraft on behalf of the
US government and had seen medical equipment and operation tables onboard
the craft.

Conclusion:
Person B proves that claims of person A are truthfull , and that
Alien spacecraft do exist and that there is medical equipment onboard.

What is wrong with that conclusion Wim ?


Provide the x-rays done of Ruby's lungs, then you can eventualy accuse the doctor(s) of making an error
by overlooking the cancer, should the cancer be visible.

Get a cell culture from the cancerous lung material, and see how fast it growths and if there is any
indication that it's Cell DNA was man made.

Provide testimony from the doctor(s) who gave him injections, that they did indeed inject
live cancer cells and wanted to kill him, and you have my full attention.

By using Judyth Baker as your expert witness, you do yourself more harm than good, this lady
has a history of claiming things that she had later to retract (or Howard,Martin on her behalf) and
some even turned out to be fabrications or as Howard and Martin like to label it, she missunderstood
them.

The latest I heard was the claim she was held captive in the Netherlands for a month,
while she forgot to mention that to those she had mail and other contact with during that
time.

Why didn't you save her from captivity then Wim, or did she forget to tell you ?



Dave:

Personally, I would hope that there would be some means in which your understanding and application of the rules of logic could be bottled up, shipped from Nuremberg/Bavaria/Germany, and thereafter poured over the heads of multitudes.

Perhaps a good "anointment" of application of logic would cure many of the ills which one observes when discussing the JFK assassination.

On the other hand, it just may take a good ole "Exorcism" to destroy the monster which has been created and continues to grow and foster with the advent of the internet and those who yearly trek to Dealy Plaza for profit, or to follow the acclaimed Prophet.

#13 Myra Bronstein

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 07:59 PM

This is excellent info Greg, thank you.

I don't know enough to have an opinion, but Garrison's book "On the Trail of the Assassins" makes a point of describing the foul smell from Ferrie's apartment due to the large number of mice he kept there for his cancer experiments. I don't have the book in front of me so I can't give the exact quote.

-MB

Myra, OTTOTA was the second book I read on the case (first was Conspiracy). I'm up to about number 9. Ferrie told 3 or 4 different stories about how he lost his hair. Cancer research was one of the reasons he gave.

Sorry I missed that the first time it was posted. Fascinating.

-JS

John,

Found this today, It shows that there was concern even back then that his cancer was "artificially induced." I haven't seen the report, but needless to say, the FBI would not have found any evidence of this.

ORIGINATOR : FBI
FROM : [No From]
TO : [No To]
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 03/17/1967
PAGES : 2
DOCUMENT TYPE : MEMORANDUM.
SUBJECTS : RUBY, JACK; CANCER ARTIFICIALLY INDUCED.
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 06/04/1993
COMMENTS : Box 15. Section 89.

Also in NARA... confirmation that Eva had noticed he was seriously ill many weeks prior to his trip to Parkland.

Some newspaper reports from Dec '66 that I've just located tend to support what I wrote in the original piece.

From the Long Beach Press Telegram 12dec66:

Ruby... was taken to Parkland Hospital Friday night after being treated for a week by the County Health Officer for a congested, tight-feeling chest. The hospital said he had pneumonia.
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A malignant tumor was discovered Saturday to have nearly consumed a lymph node in Ruby's neck. The doctors said this signified there were other cites and the cancer had advanced.
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Whatever the results of this weeks tests [to find where the cancer originated], Dr Sanford said, "I do not expect he will be able to go to court" as early as February for a retrial...


The Nevada State Journal two days later reported...

Cancer has been found in the lining of Ruby's chest, in addition to the lymph node on his neck, where it was originally discovered. Both lungs are filled with suspicious looking nodules. The cancer spread to these areas; physicians are still looking for the place it started.
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The right lung was collapsed by the pressure of four quarts of fluid that were in his chest cavity when he was taken Friday from the Dallas County jail...
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Dr Barnett said it was impossible to tell how long Ruby had been suffering from cancer and declined even to speculate whether he may have had it when he killed Oswald.

My time is running out. I am breathing toward my last breath. I was set up and tried the minute I walked down that ramp. - Jack Ruby to reporters, 31mar65.


Woah, more great info, thanks again Greg. In general I don't totally trust anyone on this subject, and even the trustworthy people should be double/triple checked. But Garrison is as trustworthy as anyone can be IMO. Of course he only stated that Ferrie was doing experiments. Nothing about results.

I do want to learn more about the general subject of cancer experiments in mice. If researchers do such experimentation then it seems like they must have some way of inducing cancer in the animals. Do they transplant cancerous organs into them? Do they inject cells? Do they inject something else? Do they only get animals that already show signs of cancer?

#14 Greg Parker

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 12:31 PM

I do want to learn more about the general subject of cancer experiments in mice. If researchers do such experimentation then it seems like they must have some way of inducing cancer in the animals. Do they transplant cancerous organs into them? Do they inject cells? Do they inject something else? Do they only get animals that already show signs of cancer?

- MB

Myra,

Sloan-Kettering from about '54 had been conducting cancer experiments, initially on animals . Those experiments involved injecting live cancer cells. What they found was that the only time full blown cancer developed was when the two animals were pure bred and as genetically alike as twins. They started experiments on healthy humans in 1956 using "volunteers" at Ohio State Prison. Those tests showed that the cancer cells died after no longer than a few days, and that where repeat tests were done, the cells would die even more quickly. It was time to move on to actual sick patients - enter the Jewish Chronic Disease Hospital in Brooklyn. In 1964, a lawsuit was filed on behalf of those patients to get their medical records released. The hospital argued that oral consent had been obtained to perform cancer experiments which involved an injection, while admitting that the patients were not informed as to what those injections were - again - live cancer cells. The hospital further claimed that no harm was done, and the cells were rejected as expected. It was, it said, the rate of rejection which was sought.

That lawsuit dragged on for at least the next two years and was widely reported upon in major and regional newspapers and magazines.

It is my contention that newspapers carrying those reports were left around where Ruby could read them. Meanwhile, he was himself being given injections. Those injections were probably harmless - designed, along with the newspaper stories on the cancer experiments, to fool Ruby into thinking he himself, was being injected with cancer cells. They also guessed correctly that Ruby would complain to someone he was being injected with cancer.

Why would they do this? The decision was probably made to kill him when it became obvious he would be granted a retrial. Any cause of death before a retrial could take place would come under suspicion. Sooooo... give people something to be suspicious about - cancer cell injections! If this was looked into, it would be easy to refute - which the FBI apparently did in the memo I mentioned in a previous post.

The real culprit was beryllium. It is toxic no matter the delivery system... but most effective when breathed in as dust. Ruby had told numerous people after his arrest that he had "walking" (atypical) pnuemonia. Was he given an inhaler as part of his treatment for this? I don't know, but it doesn't matter. It could just have easily have been dusted onto his bedding or hankerchiefs. The more I look at the reports on what was found in tests at parkland, the more it fits with Beryllium... not the least, the amount of fluid on his chest, what the doctor described as "suspicious looking" nodules, and the sheer spread of tumors.

There was only a month time between his getting ill and his death. That's galloping cancer.

- WD

Wim, that is what is stated in some books and websites, but the actual evidence says otherwise. See my previous posts. He started to get serisously ill in September '66, but had been noticeably unwell since June. Prior to that, we go all the way back to Nov 11, 63 when he saw Dr Ulevich and was given a chest x-ray. This was when he first started saying he had "walking pneumonia".

#15 Robert Charles-Dunne

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 03:41 PM

http://www.timesonli...2461655,00.html




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