How Oswald Got To the Texas theater--maybe. Options

[Jim Feemster]

My theory:

Two cops are sitting in their car close to Oswald's rooming house . They see him arrive and pull up in front and " tit-tit" their horn just like Erlene Roberts said. { The number of the car doesn't really matter---why would she make this story up? }

At this pre-arranged signal Oswald comes out of his room after changing from his work clothes and walks out to the street, turns right, walks to the corner bus stop . { The opposite direction from the Tippit murder scene } . This is the last Erlene sees of him.

The two cops { or pretend cops } pick up our boy just around the corner and drive him up close to the Texas theater where he exits their vehicle and walks a short distance to enter. Possibly from the West.

Several witnessess place Oswald in the theater well before Tippit could have been shot.

Then, here comes the Oswald decoy from the East leading Brewer to Oswald's " safe place ".

The ticket taker would not have recognised or had reason to, someone approaching from the West sometime before the decoy came along, without buying a ticket, enters the theater and ascends to the balcony.

Think.

Out of all the houses in Dallas, why would a squad car pull up to Oswald's rooming house just after he arrived and signal with their horn.

I know there is no proof to back up my theory but does it make sense to anyone else?

Jim

[John Gillespie]

My theory:

Two cops are sitting in their car close to Oswald's rooming house . They see him arrive and pull up in front and " tit-tit" their horn just like Erlene Roberts said. { The number of the car doesn't really matter---why would she make this story up? }

At this pre-arranged signal Oswald comes out of his room after changing from his work clothes and walks out to the street, turns right, walks to the corner bus stop . { The opposite direction from the Tippit murder scene } . This is the last Erlene sees of him.

The two cops { or pretend cops } pick up our boy just around the corner and drive him up close to the Texas theater where he exits their vehicle and walks a short distance to enter. Possibly from the West.

Several witnessess place Oswald in the theater well before Tippit could have been shot.

Then, here comes the Oswald decoy from the East leading Brewer to Oswald's " safe place ".

The ticket taker would not have recognised or had reason to, someone approaching from the West sometime before the decoy came along, without buying a ticket, enters the theater and ascends to the balcony.

Think.

Out of all the houses in Dallas, why would a squad car pull up to Oswald's rooming house just after he arrived and signal with their horn.

I know there is no proof to back up my theory but does it make sense to anyone else?

Jim

________________________________________

{ The number of the car doesn't really matter---why would she make this story up? } - Jim

Hi Jim,

Not to put too fine a point on this (and thanks for this very interesting posting), but do you mean why would she - or anyone - make this up? I ask that because she reportedly and purportedly was known among some of the Dallas PD as someone who, at that point in her life, was not the most credible individual, based on (again, not my assertions but those of some of the Dallas PD) some physical and cognitive problems as well as a series of fanciful stories that others supposedly had heard her tell in the months and years prior to 11/63.

I do want to believe the scenario you've put forth because it fits the 'Patsy' theorem and would seem to be part of a logical, final phase of it.

Regards,
JG

This post has been edited by John Gillespie: Dec 14 2006, 07:28 PM

[William Kelly]

The number of the police car does matter, as the number remembered by Roberts matched a DPD car that had been sold to a private dealer, and may have been resold and on the streets at the time.

I think Robert Howard found more details of this line of inquiry.

In addition, I would think that Roberts' veracity would be higher than that of the Dallas PD on issues involving complicity of its officers.

BK

[Michael G. Smith]

The number of the police car does matter, as the number remembered by Roberts matched a DPD car that had been sold to a private dealer, and may have been resold and on the streets at the time.

I think Robert Howard found more details of this line of inquiry.

In addition, I would think that Roberts' veracity would be higher than that of the Dallas PD on issues involving complicity of its officers.

BK

Jim, Interesting theory. It has been disscussed before, but not in much detail, as there was no "real" evidence of it happening, just Ms. Roberts word, and most would agree that it was a signal of some type, but for what? Yours sounds logical, and Im going to think on that one for a while. Bill, I never heard that about the "car" with that # being sold, publically or other wise. That throws a whole new spin on things, as to what may have possibly have reallly happened at that point. Now you have to begin to think...........what else may have that car have done prior, during, and after the assassination?????? Now both of you guys got my head really going now!!! lol!! If you can Bill, let me know where i an find out more about Robert Howards findings. Just my opinion FWIW. thanks--smitty

[Thomas Graves]

Then, here comes the Oswald decoy from the East leading Brewer to Oswald's " safe place ".

___________________________________________

How could the conspirators have known for sure that the Oswald decoy would have caught Brewer's or anyone else's attention?

___________________________________________

[Thomas Graves]

X

This post has been edited by Thomas Graves: Dec 15 2006, 08:54 AM

[Michael G. Smith]

X

Tom, I figure, and am under the impression, that if that was his "job", he would have gotten their attention by acting suspiciously, [and according to Dallas PD--his "description matched the person suspectedly wanted for the assassination" --released immediately by the way!] and after getting someone, wheather it was Brewers or someone elses attention, suppossedly walked into the theatre without a ticket. Im sure he would have gotten attention somehow. One of the big discussions has always been"why so many police, patrol cars, detectives, and so on, for someone who walked into a theatre without buying a ticket?? Dallas PD knew ahead of time, most probably because of certain higher ups, and a few other involved patrolmen, who were in on the whole plan. As i said, what Jim posted has me thinking about him being picked up and taken to the theatre, plus what Bill posted about the p/car being sold and used in the planning gives, me at least, some food for thought for a while. I would surely like to hear more about what Bill said Robert Howard found out about the "sale" of the cruiser. Im not sure if Mr. Howard is a member here or not, but if so, i would truly like to hear about it from him. [in short, and just basic findings of course] Bill, if you can help out here, it would truly be appreciated.
Just my opinion, FWIW. thanks -smitty

[William Kelly]

X

..... what Jim posted has me thinking about him being picked up and taken to the theatre, plus what Bill posted about the p/car being sold and used in the planning gives, me at least, some food for thought for a while. I would surely like to hear more about what Bill said Robert Howard found out about the "sale" of the cruiser. Im not sure if Mr. Howard is a member here or not, but if so, i would truly like to hear about it from him. [in short, and just basic findings of course] Bill, if you can help out here, it would truly be appreciated.
Just my opinion, FWIW. thanks -smitty

Michael,

RH is most certainly a member of this forum; must be off in DeeP Elm on a Friday night. Robert Howard is the best JFK researcher on the ground in Dallas today. Here's what he sent me a few weeks ago:


Thought you might find this interesting. The information which is presented can also be found in John Armstrong's 'Harvey & Lee' page 520. On April 10, 1963, the day of the Walker shooting, Jack Ruby placed a long-distance phone call from the Carousel Club to Clarence Rector, who lived in Sulphur Springs, Texas. A week later, on April 17, 1963 the Dallas Police sold one of their patrol cars, a 1962 Ford to used-car dealer Elvis Blount, who also lived in Sulphur Springs. What makes this information so pertinent to the assassination of President Kennedy is the fact that the patrol-car bore the number # 107. It was a Dallas Police Dept. Patrol Car bearing the # 107 which was cited as the number of the mysterious vehicle parked outside of 1026 N. Beckley by Oswald's landlady Earlene Roberts just moments after Oswald ostensibly arrived at the boarding house after leaving the TSBD after the assassination of President Kennedy. The Warren Commission and the Dallas Police Dept. we are supposed to believe 'investigated' Robert's I.D. of patrol-car # 107 and was unable to come up with any conclusive information, other than the fact that there was no DPD vehicle by that number, at the time.[i]It would not require a great deal of intelligence to speculate that the Dallas Patrol Car # 107 seen by Earlene Roberts, was, in fact the same car, which was purchased by Rector and subsequently re-appeared on November 22, 1963 in Dallas.
[i] Warren Commission Exhibit 2045; letter to WC Rep. Norman Redlich from Charles Batchelor DPD of August 4, 1964 in ref. to Elvis Blount and H.S.C.A. Volume 9 Appendix Reports, page 192 concerning Ruby and Rector.

Also, Michael,
Where in South Jersey are you? Are we in the same neck of the woods?
BK
bkjfk3@yahoo.com

This post has been edited by William Kelly: Dec 15 2006, 11:21 PM

[Greg Parker]

X

..... what Jim posted has me thinking about him being picked up and taken to the theatre, plus what Bill posted about the p/car being sold and used in the planning gives, me at least, some food for thought for a while. I would surely like to hear more about what Bill said Robert Howard found out about the "sale" of the cruiser. Im not sure if Mr. Howard is a member here or not, but if so, i would truly like to hear about it from him. [in short, and just basic findings of course] Bill, if you can help out here, it would truly be appreciated.
Just my opinion, FWIW. thanks -smitty

Michael,

RH is most certainly a member of this forum; must be off in DeeP Elm on a Friday night. Robert Howard is the best JFK researcher on the ground in Dallas today.

Bill, I'll second that. But if he's been off in Deep Elm without inviting us, he's in big trouble

Here's what he sent me a few weeks ago:

Thought you might find this interesting. The information which is presented can also be found in John Armstrong's 'Harvey & Lee' page 520. On April 10, 1963, the day of the Walker shooting, Jack Ruby placed a long-distance phone call from the Carousel Club to Clarence Rector, who lived in Sulphur Springs, Texas. A week later, on April 17, 1963 the Dallas Police sold one of their patrol cars, a 1962 Ford to used-car dealer Elvis Blount, who also lived in Sulphur Springs. What makes this information so pertinent to the assassination of President Kennedy is the fact that the patrol-car bore the number # 107. It was a Dallas Police Dept. Patrol Car bearing the # 107 which was cited as the number of the mysterious vehicle parked outside of 1026 N. Beckley by Oswald's landlady Earlene Roberts just moments after Oswald ostensibly arrived at the boarding house after leaving the TSBD after the assassination of President Kennedy. The Warren Commission and the Dallas Police Dept. we are supposed to believe 'investigated' Robert's I.D. of patrol-car # 107 and was unable to come up with any conclusive information, other than the fact that there was no DPD vehicle by that number, at the time.[i]It would not require a great deal of intelligence to speculate that the Dallas Patrol Car # 107 seen by Earlene Roberts, was, in fact the same car, which was purchased by Rector and subsequently re-appeared on November 22, 1963 in Dallas.
[i] Warren Commission Exhibit 2045; letter to WC Rep. Norman Redlich from Charles Batchelor DPD of August 4, 1964 in ref. to Elvis Blount and H.S.C.A. Volume 9 Appendix Reports, page 192 concerning Ruby and Rector.

Also, Michael,
Where in South Jersey are you? Are we in the same neck of the woods?
BK
bkjfk3@yahoo.com

[Michael G. Smith]

X

..... what Jim posted has me thinking about him being picked up and taken to the theatre, plus what Bill posted about the p/car being sold and used in the planning gives, me at least, some food for thought for a while. I would surely like to hear more about what Bill said Robert Howard found out about the "sale" of the cruiser. Im not sure if Mr. Howard is a member here or not, but if so, i would truly like to hear about it from him. [in short, and just basic findings of course] Bill, if you can help out here, it would truly be appreciated.
Just my opinion, FWIW. thanks -smitty

Michael,

RH is most certainly a member of this forum; must be off in DeeP Elm on a Friday night. Robert Howard is the best JFK researcher on the ground in Dallas today. Here's what he sent me a few weeks ago:


Thought you might find this interesting. The information which is presented can also be found in John Armstrong's 'Harvey & Lee' page 520. On April 10, 1963, the day of the Walker shooting, Jack Ruby placed a long-distance phone call from the Carousel Club to Clarence Rector, who lived in Sulphur Springs, Texas. A week later, on April 17, 1963 the Dallas Police sold one of their patrol cars, a 1962 Ford to used-car dealer Elvis Blount, who also lived in Sulphur Springs. What makes this information so pertinent to the assassination of President Kennedy is the fact that the patrol-car bore the number # 107. It was a Dallas Police Dept. Patrol Car bearing the # 107 which was cited as the number of the mysterious vehicle parked outside of 1026 N. Beckley by Oswald's landlady Earlene Roberts just moments after Oswald ostensibly arrived at the boarding house after leaving the TSBD after the assassination of President Kennedy. The Warren Commission and the Dallas Police Dept. we are supposed to believe 'investigated' Robert's I.D. of patrol-car # 107 and was unable to come up with any conclusive information, other than the fact that there was no DPD vehicle by that number, at the time.[i]It would not require a great deal of intelligence to speculate that the Dallas Patrol Car # 107 seen by Earlene Roberts, was, in fact the same car, which was purchased by Rector and subsequently re-appeared on November 22, 1963 in Dallas.
[i] Warren Commission Exhibit 2045; letter to WC Rep. Norman Redlich from Charles Batchelor DPD of August 4, 1964 in ref. to Elvis Blount and H.S.C.A. Volume 9 Appendix Reports, page 192 concerning Ruby and Rector.

Also, Michael,
Where in South Jersey are you? Are we in the same neck of the woods?
BK
bkjfk3@yahoo.com

Thanks Bill. That is some great info to hear. I never heard that part of the #107 car being sold. [and possibly being used for who knows what in the assassination!] Ill be thinking this over for some time to come! lol! Ill be emailing you. Thanks again-smitty

[Lee Forman]

X

..... what Jim posted has me thinking about him being picked up and taken to the theatre, plus what Bill posted about the p/car being sold and used in the planning gives, me at least, some food for thought for a while. I would surely like to hear more about what Bill said Robert Howard found out about the "sale" of the cruiser. Im not sure if Mr. Howard is a member here or not, but if so, i would truly like to hear about it from him. [in short, and just basic findings of course] Bill, if you can help out here, it would truly be appreciated.
Just my opinion, FWIW. thanks -smitty

Michael,

RH is most certainly a member of this forum; must be off in DeeP Elm on a Friday night. Robert Howard is the best JFK researcher on the ground in Dallas today. Here's what he sent me a few weeks ago:


Thought you might find this interesting. The information which is presented can also be found in John Armstrong's 'Harvey & Lee' page 520. On April 10, 1963, the day of the Walker shooting, Jack Ruby placed a long-distance phone call from the Carousel Club to Clarence Rector, who lived in Sulphur Springs, Texas. A week later, on April 17, 1963 the Dallas Police sold one of their patrol cars, a 1962 Ford to used-car dealer Elvis Blount, who also lived in Sulphur Springs. What makes this information so pertinent to the assassination of President Kennedy is the fact that the patrol-car bore the number # 107. It was a Dallas Police Dept. Patrol Car bearing the # 107 which was cited as the number of the mysterious vehicle parked outside of 1026 N. Beckley by Oswald's landlady Earlene Roberts just moments after Oswald ostensibly arrived at the boarding house after leaving the TSBD after the assassination of President Kennedy. The Warren Commission and the Dallas Police Dept. we are supposed to believe 'investigated' Robert's I.D. of patrol-car # 107 and was unable to come up with any conclusive information, other than the fact that there was no DPD vehicle by that number, at the time.[i]It would not require a great deal of intelligence to speculate that the Dallas Patrol Car # 107 seen by Earlene Roberts, was, in fact the same car, which was purchased by Rector and subsequently re-appeared on November 22, 1963 in Dallas.
[i] Warren Commission Exhibit 2045; letter to WC Rep. Norman Redlich from Charles Batchelor DPD of August 4, 1964 in ref. to Elvis Blount and H.S.C.A. Volume 9 Appendix Reports, page 192 concerning Ruby and Rector.

Also, Michael,
Where in South Jersey are you? Are we in the same neck of the woods?
BK
bkjfk3@yahoo.com

Great info Bill. I posted somewhere before, Hume got it from Culligan that the op had the use of two [2] DPD vehicles. There were also two referred to in the WR. I get the impression that a lot of Texans lended a hand.

I like referring to this quote, because I still find it interesting:

http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/FIST2004-...from_DalTe.html

It was a small group of people who did it originally,
but once done.....

It became a huge coverup by the many, for a many reasons.

Which leads many to conclude that the original conspiracy
was also huge. Not so. Texans did it. They were not all
professionals. It was a surprise to many others who
immediately or eventually went along or died.

I still find it intriguing that at least one of the cars bearing out-of-state plates [as seen by Bowers] was most likely registered to an individual that resided in Oak Cliff.

- lee




- lee

[Ashton Gray]

I still find it intriguing that at least one of the cars bearing out-of-state plates [as seen by Bowers] was most likely registered to an individual that resided in Oak Cliff.

Regarding Oak Cliff generally and the relevant incidents therein: has anyone bothered to factor in two intel cult "safe houses" of record in Oak Cliff, or to account for their locations?

Ashton

[Greg Parker]

I still find it intriguing that at least one of the cars bearing out-of-state plates [as seen by Bowers] was most likely registered to an individual that resided in Oak Cliff.

Regarding Oak Cliff generally and the relevant incidents therein: has anyone bothered to factor in two intel cult "safe houses" of record in Oak Cliff, or to account for their locations?

Ashton

Ashton, would one of those be the Abundant Life Temple?

[John Dolva]

With regards to 'safe houses'. The possibly dilapidated(yet to be resolved) house Tippit stopped outside and may have been preparing to reverse into the driveway when he got intercepted and shot, strikes me as a possible 'safe house'. By one account a witness thought Tippit lived there, ie he and other cops perhaps (Olson???) may have been using it as a dropin house for whatever cops do when taking a break. Pro's and gambling, and general hanging out come to mind. If it was a safe house, some people may make something of it as far as a destination for Oswald, alternatively, it could be known as a place where cops would be found, ie a good place for an ambush to draw people from the Plaza. It's possibly nefarious, unrelated, use would ensure a silence on that score.

[Ashton Gray]

I still find it intriguing that at least one of the cars bearing out-of-state plates [as seen by Bowers] was most likely registered to an individual that resided in Oak Cliff.

Regarding Oak Cliff generally and the relevant incidents therein: has anyone bothered to factor in two intel cult "safe houses" of record in Oak Cliff, or to account for their locations?

Ashton

Ashton, would one of those be the Abundant Life Temple?

Greg, I honestly don't know. Somehow, I don't think so—but it's possible. I simply cannot get answers to the specific questions I have asked about them in the thread Would Tosh Plumlee please pick up the white courtesy phone?

The information I have on them so far is pretty much embodied in the questions in that thread, but here it is again, with some augmentation I received recently:

OAK CLIFF SAFE HOUSE #1 There purportedly was an Oak Cliff safe house "in Dallas...on North Beckley Street" in which Tosh Plumlee had spent some amount of time in the company of Lee Harvey Oswald engaged in some kind of "intelligence training matters." According to the record, this safe house was "run by Alpha 66's Hernandez group, who had worked out of Miami prior to the assassination." That's the complete record so far that I know of. I have one other somewhat vague bit of information about it that I have been sent in e-mail by Peter Lemkin (with the clear prior understanding that I do not ever receive any information on a private line that I cannot publish) but just haven't had an opportunity to post, which is that it was "in a lower class area," for whatever that's worth. Peter also said of this safe house: "Jim Marrs might also have these details. I believe Plumlee was there several times over a few months…generally around the July [sic] of 1963. I also believe there were some others [sic—safe houses?], but that one was the main one." Maybe Peter will post more on this when he has time and if he has any more specific information. Maybe Jim Marrs will join the discussion.

OAK CLIFF SAFE HOUSE #2 There was a separate, different safe house "over by Oak Cliff Country Club on Bar Harbor Drive." Of course this is couched in intel-speak, where it is impossible from the syntax to determine whether the reference to Bar Harbor Drive is naming the street that the Oak Cliff Country Club is on, or that the safe house is on, or both. This is the safe house that Plumlee and company purportedly went through en route from and to Redbird Airport on 22 November 1963. Of that one, Peter Lemkin said: "The one near the country club was in a nicer upper-middle class area. I don’t have the address of the second with me."

Apparently Peter doesn't have certain records with him where he is. He didn't provide an address for the first safe house, either.

That is the totality of any reasonably useful information I have on the two Oak Cliff safe houses at issue. I've posted here what seems to augment the existing record. The one other thing Peter said that I found of interest, in response to my question to Tosh Plumlee inquiring whether there was only one Oak Cliff safe house being described or two separate Oak Cliff safe houses (it was difficult to tell initially), Peter answered in pertinent part: "Two separate [of which there were a few other] safe houses."

This indicates his knowledge of more than just the two described above. I have no information on when, where, or how he came by such knowledge on any of the safe houses. I was given no other specific information at all, even whether these "few other" safe houses were also in Oak Cliff or not. Any further information on that count will have to come from Peter Lemkin.

The original references to each of the two Oak Cliff safe houses at issue came from one source: Tosh Plumlee.

Given that the two Oak Cliff safe houses described above are in the record, and given that Peter Lemkin seems to corroborate their existence, and given that he suggests that Jim Marrs also can corroborate it, it astounds me beyond expression that any discussion of events in and immediately around Oak Cliff can take place at all without the absolute first priority being to track down every last shred of information that can be gathered from any source on these safe houses, their exact location, their owners, their uses, and personnel who inhabited or passed through them at any relevant time.

To do otherwise is to chase butterflies barefoot through a field writhing with black mambas.

Ashton

This post has been edited by Ashton Gray: Dec 16 2006, 08:30 AM