With the release of the "Costume" Family Jewels, the documents re: Henry Kissinger quoting Richard Helms that among the real CIA Family Jewels are the records of the assassination plots against Castro that RFK managed.

This sirred up more of the Bobby ploted to kill Castro stories, and focused my attention on one guy - Charles Donald Ford.

While the newspapers, following the lead of the National Security Archives, made new news of Kissinger's statements, I found that Thomas Powers [in his book Intelligence Wars, American Secret History from Hitler To Al-Qaeda (NYRB 2004, p.229) and in his NYRB column of Nov. 30, 1997 "Marilyn Was the Least of It"), wrote:

"...According to notes obtained by (Black Slyde) Hersh,...Hersh also learned that in 1962, while the assassination efforts involving the Mafia hit men were still under way, Bobby Kennedy was assigned his own operaitonal officer in the CIA, a man named Charles Ford picked from the staff of Task Force W, then commanded by (William) Harvey. Ford's job was to handle contacts with Mafia chiefs while traveling under the pseudonym of Rocky Fiscalini, a name (along with Ford's own) that appears in Bobby Kennedy's office logs for 1962. But what Ford actually did for Kennedy remains unknown."

"Hersh provides no definitive history of the CIA's attempts to assassinate foreign leaders, a subject that is complex, factually dense, and spotted with missing pieces. But he has dug up numerous pieces of new information, many of them significant for any serious history even if they fall short of being sensational headline material. His account of the CIA's campaign makes clear what the CIA officers have been stressing for twenty years - that the driving force behind the all-out effort to get rid of Castro was the blast furnace of pressure form the Kennedy brothers."

"This is not shocking. The basic facts, if not all the details, ahve long been known by those who desire to know. But it is painful to read about assassination planning by the very man whose murder was probabl; the greatest single traumatic event in American history..."

Then in another NYRB review (The Black Arts,Feb. 4, 1999) Powers wrote (IW,p.373 - & not noted in the index):

"...The secrets at the heart of secrets are rarely confided to official paper or the appropriate files...One such surfaced recently when the Assassinations Records Review Board (ARRB) released a two-page 'Memorandum of Conversation' from the Gerald Ford Presidential Library recording some comments of Henry Kissinger on January 4, 1975, during a discussion of news sotires by Seymour Hersh claiming extensive wrongdoing by the CIA. According to Max Holland, who is writing a book about hte Warren Commission, Kissinger, then serving as both Ford's secretary of state and his national security advsor, had sought a blanket denial from the agency but had been informed by William Colby that some major secrets remain hidden. A former director, Richard Helms, was summoned back to Washington from his post as ambassador to Iran to fill in the details for Kissinger at a breakfast meeting dhortly before Kissinger met in the White House with President Ford and Brent Scowcroft, who was taking notes."

"'Helms said all these stories were the tip of the iceberg,' Kissinger said, as recorded by Scowcroft during the meeting with Ford. 'If they come out, blood will flow. For example, Robert Kennedy personally managed the operation on the assassination of Castro.'"

"The friends and defenders of the Kenendy brothers say it isn't so; but there it is on paper, written down in the heat of a government crisis, the words of a man in a position to know, recorded on the day, perhaps even within the very hour, they were uttered."

"Holland and Hersh, sill on the case, also learned recently the name of the CIA intelligence officer named to serve as liaison with the attorney general during the year in which he continually pressed the CIA for results in getting rid of Castro - a career intelligence officer, now dead, named Charles Ford."

"According to Ford's office-mate Sam Halpern [Also now dead], a CIA officer assigned to Task Force W in the agency's effort to get rid of Castro, Ford traveled hither and yon about the country on Robert Kennedy'ss business, but there public knowledge comes to an end."

"Hersh's book The Dark Side of Camelot, published in 1998, includes some additional ancillary detail. Whether still-classified CIA files can fill out the story of Ford's work for Bobby remains unknown but it's likely, ust as it is likely no one will be given free range of the files until many, many additional years have passed, f then....Does it matter whether we are permitted to haul up the last piece of paper to the light of day before letting it rest? There is no right answer, just personal prefeerence: some would rather know, and some would rather not."

It didn't take long to locate a half-dozen NARA JFK Riffs re: John D. Ford, a note no his passing from Princeton allumni notes and a death notice for his CIA-office mate, Sam Halpern [RIP March 7. 2005].

The Riffs make note of Ford's use of the alias Rocky (misspelled Siscalini) Fiscalini, the CIA documents that refer to Ford and his Mafia contacts, and the fact that there are additional records among the NARA JFK ARC under Ford's name in JFK-M-O3-(F6) Box 3.

The earliest RIFF refers to an OSS record from 1945 that includes Charles D. Ford among the OSS officers assigned to China, along with J. Walton Moore, who later became George DeMohrenschildt's CIA Domestic Contacts Divsion debriefer in Dallas.

The Princeton alumni notes his graduation from Princeton in 1948, his middle name was Donald, that he went by the name of Don, was born in Atlantic City, N.J. and attended high school there.

Which makes me wonder if he knew John Martino from the old hood, or Jessica Wilcox (aka Candy Jones, wife of Long John Nebel).

More to come on this,

Bill Kelly

HERE'S THE DOCUMENTATION I GOT SO FAR. - BK
[b]

http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/11/30/revi....30powerst.html



http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/findi.../cia-files.html


http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/10780/jfksnew.txt




HitTitleFromToDateFull ResultSelect1ARRB REQUEST: CIA-IR-13: OFFICE/PERSON DEALING WITH ORGANIZED CRIME AND CUBAARRBCIA/HRG04/16/1997 2COVER MEMORANDUM:SSC REQUEST/THE ATTACHED PACKAGE ON FORD-FISCALINITHE REVIEW STAFFCIA TASK FORCE:09/06/1975 3FILE ON FORD, CHARLES/RFK-MAFIA[No From][No To]01/01/0000 4MEMO: SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE REQUEST (CHARLES FORD)DIRECTOR OF SECURITYTHE REVIEW STAFF09/04/1975 5MEMORANDUM:INTERVIEW BY SENATE COMMITTEE INVESTIGATORSFORD,CHARLES D. OTRTHE RECORD09/19/1975 6MEMORANDUM:SENATE SELECT COMMITTE REQUEST (CHARLES FORD)GAMBINO, ROBT. DIRECTOR OF SECURITYTHE REVIEW STAFF09/04/1975 7OVERSEAS SECURITY APPROVAL [LISTING OF MEN LEAVING FOR KUNMING, CHINA, INCLUDING J. WALTON MOORE].FORD, CHARLES E., OSSSECURITY OFFICE, OSS04/18/1945

[/b]<H2 class=r>MAY.CHP:Corel VENTURA - 2 visits - 12:27am</H2>File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
disliked each other. Hersh asserts that RFK used another CIA agent, Charles. Ford, as a direct contact with the mob in continuing to work on assassinations, ...
www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/0145-2096.00146 -


http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/10780/jfksnew.txt


AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : CIA
RECORD NUMBER : 104-10124-10342
RECORDS SERIES : JFK
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 80T01357A




DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : CIA
FROM : FORD, CHARLES E., OSS
TO : SECURITY OFFICE, OSS
TITLE : OVERSEAS SECURITY APPROVAL [LISTING OF MEN LEAVING FOR
KUNMING, CHINA, INCLUDING J. WALTON MOORE].
DATE : 04/18/1945
PAGES : 1
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : CIA FILES; KUNMING, CHINA; MOORE, J. WALTO; TRAVEL
ORDERS
CLASSIFICATION :
RESTRICTIONS : 1A
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 04/22/1994
COMMENTS : JFK44 : F20 : 1994.04.22.09:35:01:500007 :


http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/10780/jfksnew.txt



AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : CIA
RECORD NUMBER : 104-10310-10196
RECORDS SERIES : JFK
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : CIA-DDP-FILES




DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : CIA
FROM : GAMBINO, ROBT. DIRECTOR OF SECURITY
TO : THE REVIEW STAFF
TITLE : MEMORANDUM:SENATE SELECT COMMITTE REQUEST (CHARLES
FORD)
DATE : 09/04/1975
PAGES : 2
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : FISCALINI,CHARL; ford, charles
CLASSIFICATION : SECRET
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 11/16/1998
COMMENTS : JFK-M-07 : F1 : 1998.11.16.16:34:56:590120 : ARRB
REQUEST. CIA-IR-34.


http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/10780/jfksnew.txt


AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : CIA
RECORD NUMBER : 104-10310-10119
RECORDS SERIES : JFK
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : CIA-DDP-FILES




DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : CIA
FROM : FORD,CHARLES D. OTR
TO : THE RECORD
TITLE : MEMORANDUM:INTERVIEW BY SENATE COMMITTEE INVESTIGATORS
DATE : 09/19/1975
PAGES : 8
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : ford, charles
CLASSIFICATION :
RESTRICTIONS : 1A
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 11/13/1998
COMMENTS : JFK-M-07 : F3 : 1998.11.13.14:33:39:653120 : INTERVIEW
FORM AND DISTRIBUTION LIST ARE ATTACHED.ARRB REQUEST.
CIA-IR-34.


http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/10780/jfksnew.txt

AGENCY INFORMATION
AGENCY : CIA
RECORD NUMBER : 104-10310-10197
RECORDS SERIES : JFK
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : CIA-DDP-FILES




DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : CIA
FROM : THE REVIEW STAFF
TO : CIA TASK FORCE:
TITLE : COVER MEMORANDUM:SSC REQUEST/THE ATTACHED PACKAGE ON
FORD-FISCALINI
DATE : 09/06/1975
PAGES : 1
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : FISCALINI; ford, charles
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 11/16/1998
COMMENTS : JFK-M-07 : F1 : 1998.11.16.16:37:18:780120 : ARRB
REQUEST. CIA-IR-34.



http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/10780/jfksnew.txt


AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : CIA
RECORD NUMBER : 104-10303-10001
RECORDS SERIES : JFK
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : CIA-OP




DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : CIA
FROM : [No From]
TO : [No To]
TITLE : FILE ON FORD, CHARLES/RFK-MAFIA
DATE : 01/01/0000
PAGES : 10
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : ford, charles; SISCALINI,ROCKY; TESTIMONY
CLASSIFICATION :
RESTRICTIONS : 1B
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 09/18/1998
COMMENTS : JFK-M-03 : F6 : 1998.09.18.07:48:32:030120 : ARRB
REQUEST.CIA - IR 13. CORRECTED TO 10 PAGES VICE 20


http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/10780/jfksnew.txt

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : CIA
RECORD NUMBER : 104-10310-10197
RECORDS SERIES : JFK
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : CIA-DDP-FILES




DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : CIA
FROM : THE REVIEW STAFF
TO : CIA TASK FORCE:
TITLE : COVER MEMORANDUM:SSC REQUEST/THE ATTACHED PACKAGE ON
FORD-FISCALINI
DATE : 09/06/1975
PAGES : 1
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : FISCALINI; ford, charles
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 11/16/1998
COMMENTS : JFK-M-07 : F1 : 1998.11.16.16:37:18:780120 : ARRB
REQUEST. CIA-IR-34


http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/10780/jfksnew.txt

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : CIA
RECORD NUMBER : 104-10336-10012
RECORDS SERIES : JFK
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : PROJFILES-ARRB REQUESTS




DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : ARRB
FROM : ARRB
TO : CIA/HRG
TITLE : ARRB REQUEST: CIA-IR-13: OFFICE/PERSON DEALING WITH
ORGANIZED CRIME AND CUBA
DATE : 04/16/1997
PAGES : 19
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER - TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : ARRB REQUEST; FISCALINI; FORD CHARLES; JFK
ASSASSINATION; UNIT INDEX
CLASSIFICATION :
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : RELEASED WITH DELETIONS
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 01/13/2004
COMMENTS : JFK-M-20 : F13 : 20030731-973803 : UNIT INDEX


http://webscript.princeton.edu/~paw/memori...lay.php?id=5923

Princeton Alumni Weekly Memorials > Charles Donald Ford '43 DON DIED May 20, 1990, at the age of 69, following a fourmonth bout with cancer. Born in Atlantic City, N.J., he graduated from the local high school and entered Princeton with the Class in 1939. While on campus, Don became a member of Campus Club, a member of the fencing team, and played trumpet both in the marching band and and with a group composed of students and "townies."

During WWII, Don, who had been studying Chinese, entered the Naval Intelligence Language School to take up Japanese before he completed his senior year. He later switched to Army Intelligence. After die war, he returned to Princeton and obtained his degree in 1948, in politics. Don's interest in military intelligence led him to a job with the C.I.A. as a civilian career. He served in the C.I.A. until 1976, when he retired to San Jose, Calif.

In 1948, he married Martha, who survives, as do a daughter, Kathleen; and a granddaughter, Christie. His college roommate of threeplus years, Dr. Jim Mason, remembers Don as a man who was an active, alive, takecharge type of person with a quick wit and wonderful sense of humor. To all his family, we offer our most sincere condolences.

The Class of 1943 PAW October 24th, 1990

© Princeton Alumni Weekly 1995-2007


THERE'S ALSO MENTION OF CHARLES DON FORD IN THIS ARTICLE BY OUR FRIENDS FROM THE MILLER CENTER - MAY AND ZELIKOW, WHICH I CAN'T ACCESS BUT IF ANYONE CAN, I'D APPRECIATE KNOWING WHAT IT SAYS. THANKS. BK

<H2 class=r>MAY.CHP:Corel VENTURA - 2 visits - 12:27am</H2>File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
disliked each other. Hersh asserts that RFK used another CIA agent, Charles. Ford, as a direct contact with the mob in continuing to work on assassinations, ...
www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/0145-2096.00146 -

Click to view attachment



Bill,I had posted this last month in the thread on David Phillips:

Has anyone seen another document in which Phillips used the Don Barton pseudonym? What's interesting about the name is that a 1962 cable from JMWAVE has another CIA officer,Charles Ford,using the same "Don Barton" name to meet with an anti-Castro Cuban at the request of GPFOCUS,the cryptonym for RFK.The Church Committee seems to have had the idea that Ford was a link bewteen CIA and the Mafia in the assassination plots against Castro.

Ford cable

The cable that refers to Ford using the Barton alias.

Thanks Robin,

Sorry I missed it before.

Does anyone have an obit for Charles Don Ford?

Thanks,

BK

Bill,

He also used the alias Charles D. Fiscalina.

Technically he was with the Office of Training / Deputy Directorate for Admin.

Yes, he did know John Martino.

James

Thanks James,

So technically, he was in the same section of JM/WAVE as Bradley E. Ayers.

As for Martino, I'm not surprised CDFord knew Martino from Florida in JM/WAVE days, but I was wondering if CD Ford knew Martino from Atlantic City, where they both apparently grew up in the late 30s, and where Jessica Wilcox/Candy Jones also grew up.

Atlantic City 1930s is not New York City, but rather a small barrier Island where the tourist population of hundreds of thousands in the summer slips to a few thousand local residents in the winter. Most of the locals would know each other, some for generations, especially if they went to the local high school.

And was there a Allen Dulles - CD Ford connection at Princeton?

The idea that CD Ford knew J. W. Moore in 1945 is even more interesting to me, because it provides a link between DeMorn and DC in April of 1963, when a lot of things seem to be happening at the same time.

An obit of CD Ford would be informative.

What, no Mug Shots?

BK

Thanks to Greg Parker for coming up with this from Joan Mellen. -BK

From Joan Mellen's website:
I located a document from the CIA's own Secret History, in which the CIA's History Staff is interviewing a CIA officer named Sam Halpern. Halpern reveals his own incredulity that Bobby Kennedy should be working with the Mafia in attempts on the life of Castro at the very same time that he was trying to send other Mafia figures to jail. A CIA operative named Charley Ford, alias Charley Fiscalini, was assigned by Bobby Kennedy to make contact with Mafia types in this country and Canada for the purpose of murdering Castro.

To all this, Charley Ford testified under oath before the Church Committee. That Bobby Kennedy repeatedly attempted to enlist anti-Castro Cubans for these assassination attempts against Castro I learned first-hand from Isidro Borja, of the DRE. “I know Bobby Kennedy was behind it,” he told me indignantly, “because his people approached ME!” Borja told me Bobby's people did succeed in recruiting his good friend Rafael Quintero Ibaria, also known as “Chi Chi.”
From a review of Hersch's Dark Side of Camelot
According to notes obtained by Hersh, Harvey met on Jan. 25 with a C.I.A. scientist to discuss poisons for killing Fidel Castro, among others on the hit list. Hersh has also learned that in 1962, while the assassination efforts involving Mafia hit men were still under way, Bobby Kennedy was assigned his own operational officer in the C.I.A., a man named Charles Ford picked from the staff of Task Force W, then commanded by Bill Harvey. Ford's job was to handle contacts with Mafia chiefs while traveling under the pseudonym of Rocky Fiscalini, a name (along with Ford's own) that appears in Bobby Kennedy's office logs for 1962. But what Ford actually did for Kennedy remains unknown.

I have a gut feeling that C.D. Ford, as we learn more about him, will lead to where I want to go - the Dealey Plaza ringleaders. (Bill Kelly from another thread)

Bill,

I put this here as it relates directly to Charles Ford.

Your quote above I think is pretty much on the money. In late 1962, at the behest of Robert Kennedy, Ford was dispatched to interview a Cuban by the name of Ernesto Betancourt from the Ejercito Libertadore de Cuba.

Betancourt was planning some sabotage action in Cuba and even though Betancourt didn't officially have anything to do with the CIA, in fact he didn't trust them, Ford was told to check it out and to 'give him some attention'.

Present in the meeting with Betancourt was one Eduardo Perez aka Eddie Bayo who indeed was the major spokesman. It was only a few months later that Bayo led 'Operation Tilt' which was signed off by David Morales.

The information regarding Perez and Betancourt was in a report I read many years ago authored by Ford himself. Maybe a forum member with access to the various on-line document sites can locate it. (it's not the one Robin posted)

Also, one more curiosity, in 1965, the CIA received a print of the Zapruder Film from Time Inc. This copy was used by the Office of Training between 1965 and 1969. The man who took possession of the film for the CIA and who controlled its use was Charles D. Ford.

FWIW.

James

Ford report

James,
Is this the report?

Well done, Robin. That's it.

Cheers,

James

interesting. Is "Bayo" Capt. Eduardo Perez Gonzalez? what were the names and nationalities of the nine men who went missing on "Bayo" raid? Are the men in the Ford report among the missing? Did LIFE publish the story at any time or was it covered in Cuban press or anywhere else? What did Billings or Spencer report after the fact? Martino, Billings and Spencer, Pawley bailed on the trip, who else opted out? Is the only official inquiry where raid is mentioned the Hall interview? HSCA? WC? Did HSCA investigators inquire this matter on either or both trips to Cuba? Does Baku raid figure in this? Someone might have the history handy-I'm a bit lost on this again. thanks

Hi Christy,

It's been awhile, how have you been?

Yes, Perez is Bayo. The names of the main 'Op Tilt guys were, Ernesto Duenas Soccoro, Rene Lomalru, Denys Regal, Tomas Vaquero, Eugenio Martinez, Luis Jimenez, Luis Cantin, Alfredo Mir, Francisco Hernandez and a few others whose names escape me for now.

Cantin and Mir ended up with Commandos L, Vaquero was killed inside Cuba during early 1964, and Hernandez may have been the Hernandez associating with Lee Oswald in the assassination lead-up.

These men were mostly Cuban with a few Americans thrown in for good measure - Rip Robertson, James Arthur Lewis, Mickey Kappes and James Seymour (not his real name).

Can't help you wth your other questions but the Agency was generating reports regarding Bayo well into 1964 where he was alive and doing battle with Castro's forces in the Oriente Province.

Rumor also has it that Bayo was seen in Miami in mid November of 1963.

FWIW.

James

Thanks for those two reports Robin, one with the Don Barton alias and the other with his signature.

It appears from this report that RFK was, at the time, keen on economic sabatoge, which the SGA had approved.

If this report is typical of the type of missions RFK sent CD Ford, then there should be many more similar reports.

BK

Bill- did you see this reference to Ford from the thread on DiEugenio's Review of Talbot:



The book features a good discussion of the CIA-Mafia plots to kill Castro. In this section he is explicit about the duplicity of Richard Helms in attempting to switch the blame for those plots from the CIA to the Kennedys. (pgs 87-88) He neatly notes that Helms had photos of all the presidents he served except Kennedy's. He even notes that Helms in death, was still deceptive about those plots in his posthumous memoir. (p. 110) A deft stroke by Talbot in this regard is his (further) exposure of Sy Hersh's hatchet job, The Dark Side of Camelot. He notes how Hersh was so cozy with the CIA in his writing of this book that he trusted covert operator Sam Halpern. Halpern told Hersh that RFK used the late Charles Ford to activate Mafia assets in Cuba to destabilize, and even kill, Castro. Talbot found a Church Committee memorandum by Ford. In discussing his interview with them he explained that his meetings with RFK on Cuba were about "the efforts of a Cuban exile group to foment an anti-Castro uprising, not on Mafia assassination plots." (p. 123) Talbot properly concludes that Helms and Halpern "fabricated their story about Bobby Kennedy and the Mafia ... Officials like Helms and Halpern tried to deflect public outrage over their unseemly collusion by pinning the blame on the late attorney general." Talbot could have added here that Halpern should have already been suspect to Hersh because he is listed as a witness in the CIA IG Report on the plots, which never mentions any of this material. Further, Halpern was placed in charge of the internal investigation of the CIA's supersensitive Operation Forty. A report that, to my knowledge, has yet to surface. The man who placed him in that position was Helms.

The last lines are interesting.

Thanks Nate, and to Ron Williams for posting Jimmy D's review.

I will have to re-read DT's Brothers, as I didn't recognize the signifiance of C.D. Ford the frist time around. I began to focus on Ford with his mention in the "Costume Jewels."

Like Talbot, I too went to the NARA Riffs, and among those docs released re: Ford is an interview with Ford that Robert Howard recently dug up that is extremely significant.

Will post shortly.

BK

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=16067&relPageId=3

AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : CIA
RECORD NUMBER : 104-10303-10001
RECORDS SERIES : JFK
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : CIA-OP
DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : CIA
FROM : [No From]
TO : [No To]
TITLE : FILE ON FORD, CHARLES/RFK-MAFIA
DATE : 01/01/0000
PAGES : 10
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER - TEXTUAL
DOCUMENTSUBJECTS :
CLASSIFICATION :
RESTRICTIONS : 1BDATE OF LAST REVIEW : 09/18/1998COMMENTS : JFK-M-03 : F6 : 1998.09.18.07:48:32:030120 : ARRBREQUEST.CIA - IR 13. CORRECTED TO 10 PAGES VICE 20
Date of interview Sept. 18, 1975

Mike Madigan SSC Staff reports that Mr Helms and Mr Halpern have testified
that in response to a request by Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy,
the assigned an officer to establish contacts with the underworld to look
for possible contacts for use against Castro.

Sam Halpern says the officer was Charles Ford who used the name Rocky
Siscalini.

Madigan wants any information we have on this and would like to interview
the Agency officer.

2...........I told them that I joined in 1949; that I was and am now a
member of the Office of Training; That in 1960 or thereabouts I had a
brief tour of duty with the Economic Group in the DDP, and I went directly
from that assignment to WH-4 in Sept., 1961.

3. I was asked to recall my major activities while with the Cuban operation
and I did so. I reported that my first major assignment was the handling
of a Cuban agent, one we were using to build a nucleus of an organization
for eventual operations into Cuba. I identified this man as Mr [ 6 ]. (Mr. Rhea having heard my description of this activity at our earlier session, did not pursue this matter any further.)

4. The investigators were interested in when I was assigned the code name
Fiscalini, the circumstances under which the name was assigned, and who
had assigned it. I told them I had seen a Xerox copy of the memorandum
(I saw this during a meeting with Bill Sturbits last Friday in Bill's
office) which requested that identification in the name of Fiscalini be
assigned to me. I explained the circumstances, which Mr. Postal and
Mr Rhea had heard at our earlier meeting, and said that I thought the
date was the end of March, 1962. The circumstances involved a contact
by a New York lawyer, thru the Department of Justice, concerning a
client who had access to Cuba and wanted to visit Castro to put in a
special plea on behalf of the Bay of Pigs prisoners. I identified the
individual concerned (I still can't remember his name) as the manager
of the Teresa Hotel in New York. I did not identify the lawyer and was
not asked for his name I identified a man I met at a second meeting in
New York as 'Bubbles' Abdallah. I explained that the latter individual
proposed to accompany the manager of the Teresa to Cuba, the manager
being an elderly man with some difficulty in walking. I explained to
the investigators that I had no further contact with these individuals
after I discovered that Abdallah was wanted, or under indictment -
I forget which, by Texas authorities for smuggling drugs from Mexico.
Mr. Robert Kelly was clearly interested in pursuing the matter further
of who assigned my "Code Name." I indicated that the document I received
came from the Office of Security, but that I did not know whether the
Office selected the name or not.

5. We went over again the story of my contact with a Canadian named "Joe,"
(I know this man's last name but have not been asked for it and have
not volunteered it.) I described one meeting and a telephone call
involving Joe. In the meeting he claimed that he could travel back and
forth from Canada to Cuba; revealed to me that he was interested in
starting a smuggling activity involving goods on the proscribed list;
that he wanted United States citizenship and a great deal of money in
exchange for allowing us to send materials or tamper with some of the
shipments if we could get the proscribed goods to Canada. I explained
to the investigators that my interest lay in the fact that Joe claimed
he could speak with Che Guevera and that I had attempted to get Joe to
serve as a means of communications between us and Che, which Joe refused
to do. As for the telephone call, I told them that when Joe returned
from his trip to Cuba he called to say that big things were going on
in Cuba and that we should meet right away. Being aware at that point
that we in the Agency were deep in the middle of what would later be
called the Cuban Missile Crisis, I told Joe I could not see him and
that we probably already knew what he had to tell me.
That was the last I heard of Joe.

6. We spent a great deal of time going over my meetings with the Attorney
General and his interest in a small group of Cubans who claimed to have
supporters ready to create an uprising in Santiago Province. This is the
case described in paragraph 3 of my earlier memorandum. The investigators
were quite interested in the identity of the man whom I saw at the
request of the Attorney General. I went over this again in as much
detail as I could remember, but without being able to recall who this
man was. I was asked if I could describe the man and I said that I
recalled him as a fairly tall man of average build with black hair,
black eyebrows and glasses. Of considerable interest is the fact that
perhaps 15 or 20 minutes later, I was shown an 8 x 10 glossy photograph
of several people walking in front of what appeared to be a public
building and was asked whether I could identify any of the people in
the picture. I could not. Mr. Postal pointed to the central figure
and asked if I could identify him. I said I could not. (The picture
was of a man probably in his mid-sixties with flowing white hair and
somewhat on the order of Sen. Kenneth Keating, a large, down-curving
nose, white straight eyebrows behind dark glasses, a somewhat lined,
puffy face and a slightly receding forehead accentuated by the fact
that his hair was combed straight from front to back. The man was
wearing a dark blue, or black suit, and one man appeared to be
accompanying him to his left and slightly ahead and another man
slightly to his right and rear. Without having any reference points
by which to judge, my best guess would be that the subject was about
5'10 inches tall. He appeared to be rather heavy, perhaps in the range
of 220 lbs. There appeared to be a caption of some sort at the bottom
of the picture, but this was hidden from my view.) Mr. Postal asked
whether the main figure in the photograph could have been the man the
Attorney General directed me to see. I replied that, even allowing for
the difference in years, the man in the photograph in no way resembled
the man I saw on behalf of the Attorney General.

7. Messrs. Postal and Rhea again brought up the topic of assassination and asked whether I had engaged in or had heard mention of, in Task Force
W, or SAS discussions on the subject of assassination either in general
or specifically with regards to Castro. I told the investigators that the
subject name came up repeatedly, when we were speaking with Cubans, many
of whom having bring forced to flee Cuba, sincerely wished for Castrol's
immediate demise. I said that I had never heard of, nor engaged in
conversations with Agency officers about any plan, the direct and only
aspect of which was the assassination of Fidel Castro. I pointed out
that on a number of occasions I dealt with Cubans who wanted to kill
Castro, but that my job was simply to attempt to extract from these
contacts the names of people in Cuba who might be of potential use to
us in intelligence operations. I said that I had never engaged in
plotting with Cubans regarding assassinations, but that I had many
conversations with Cubans regarding their desire to conduct paramilitary
activities which, as a by-product might well result in Castro's death.
I pointed out emphatically that the Agency's policy prohibits political
assassination.

8. I was asked if I know [ 3 ] and Nestor Sanchez. I told them
that I knew them both me and that Nestor and I shared an office for a
short period near the end of my attachment with SAS. I was asked if
AMLASH meant anything to me and I replied in the negative. This was
followed by whether [ 3 ] and Nestor had discussed with me or
mentioned an operation involving a high-level officer of the Cuban
government, a military man who made frequent trips out of Cuba. Again
I could only reply in the negative. I added the juxtaposition of [ 3 ]
and Nestor in the context of a single operation surprised me inasmuch
as I believed Nestor to have been involved only in psychological
operations and [ 3 ] working at collecting foreign intelligence.
I was then asked if the word "AMOTS" meant anything to me and I said
that it did but that all I could say was that it had to do with
counterintelligence activities. Mr. Rhea asked me whether I could
say that the "AMOTS" activity was concerned with contacting Cuban
exiles in the Miami area and I indicated that this was my understanding. The subject was not pursued further.

9. I was asked about my visit to New Orleans (which I had mentioned
during the previous session) and I explained that these two trips were
for the purpose of attempting to find ways of establishing lines of
communications between Cuban's in New Orleans and their friends in Cuba.
I indicated that I had been able to come up with a very fine prospect;
a Cuban, and that I had turned him over to one of our FI Case Officers.
I also said that I had several discussions with an American whom I
declined to identify under the general ground rule relating to sources
of information. Messrs Postal and Rhea asked if I would respond
affirmatively if they were to suggest some initials which might
correspond to my American contact. I agreed to do this but the initials
they mentioned meant nothing. (Unfortunately, I cannot recall them!)
I volunteered the initials of my contact "FJ" and this produced a blank
expression on the part of both of the investigators, and a shrug of
Mr. Rhea's shoulders. The final question I was asked was whether I
had any knowledge of the "Ponchartrain Operation." I told them that
I knew where Lake Ponchartrain was and that's as far as it went.

10. We spent a little time on the subject of General Lansdale.
I admitted I had attended one meeting in General Lansdale's office
in the Pentagon. I was asked whether anyone else was there, and said
I could recall only one name, Cornelius Roosevelt, but that there were
two other people at that meeting. In response to a series of questions,
about what was discussed at that meeting, I said that General Lansdale
was interested in various paramilitary possibilities and that my role was
limited to giving a quick assessment of whether we had the agent assets
to assist in carrying out the various possible operations that General
Lansdale suggested.

11. I was asked whether the term Mongoose meant anything to me and I
indicated that it was a general term to refer to a composite of planned
operational activities. I said that I had no knowledge of any specific
activity being planned under this name and further explained that it was
possible that some of my Cuban contacts may have been taken over by
other case officers for use under "Mongoose," but that I had no direct
knowledge of such having been done.

12. Mr. Robert Kelly expressed considerable interest in the organization
of Task Force W. At one point he asked how many echelons there were
between me and Mr. Helms. I told them that I reported to Bill Harvey;
that my title was Special Assistant; that Mr Harvey reported to Mr Helms;
That I frequently received assignment and reported to Sam Halpern;
and that I occasionally undertook tasks for Bruce Cheever, Harvey's deputy,
although these tasks were concerned with the workings of Task Force W and
did not involve contacts with the Cubans. I was asked if there were any
Special Assistant other than me in Task Force W and I replied that
Mr Zogby, C/WH/4 prior to Mr Harvey's arrival on the scene had been
retained as a member of Task Force W in an SA status. I said that there
may well have been others because people would show up from time to time
for short besides myself for short tours of duty for several months or
so and then depart to carry on their work elsewhere, but that I could
not recall anyone by name at this time

13. I was asked whether I used the name Fiscalini in circumstances other
than those described. I said that I frequently carried identification in
that name and I used it on several occasions. I described one occasion
which was an amusing one-time contact that had no bearing on any item of
interest to the committee. The investigator asked if I ever had contacts
among the Cuban's in Miami, and I replied in the negative.

14. I was asked if I had ever made contact with people in New York City
other than those described. I said that indeed I had; but that in one
case although the man in question lived in New York, the meeting took
place in Newark, New Jersey. In response to a question, I said that the
lead was provided by the FBI. I declined to identify the man involved on
the grounds of the sensitivity of his position at the time.

15. I was asked whether I had any knowledge of a meeting of the Attornel General and Cuban exile leaders in the summer of 1962. I said that sucha meeting would not have been unusual in my opinion, but that I had no knowledge of such a meeting. I pointed out that it was common practice among many Cuban leaders to acquire the support, or the appearance of support of U.S. Agencies and prominent U.S. political figures. I furtherstated that numerous attempts were made to get the U.S. to support a
Cuban government-in-exile and that I had one meeting in Washington with
a Cuban leader who was constantly trying to get us to support him as
head of such an arrangement. I identified this man as Mario Garcia-Kohly
and added that he was sentenced to prison some years later for
counterfeiting Cuban pesos. The name "Kohly" obviously rang a bell with
Mr. Postal as he repeated it in a surprised tone of voice. However,
Mr Postal did not pursue the matter.

16. Some of the other topics which were surfaced in connection with the
above major items: I was asked whether I knew the following people or
recognized the names (My responses are summarized in parentheses and I
can't vouch for all the spellings):

1 Carlos Teppedino (never heard of him)
2 Jose Orta (never heard of him)
3 Sam Giancana (read about him in the newspaper, never met him)
4 Roselli (read about him in the newspaper, never met him)
5 Tafficante (read about him in the newspaper, never met him)
6 Manuel Artime (read about him in the newspaper, never met him)
7 Big Jim O'Connell (heard about him in the newspaper, never met him) I was asked whether "No Name Key" meant anything to me and I gave noresponse.
I was asked whether I had gone to Chicago in the course of my work and
I told them I had not.

17. This is probably the appropriate point to underline my conviction
that the main, if not the only point of concern to the investigators
is whether I was directed to sally forth and initiate contact with
members of the underworld in the U.S. and who directed me to do so.
Their interest is even more pointedly focused on whether I had anything
to do with the Rosselli, Giancana, et al, "operations." Once again, I
explained that my job was broader than this by a longshot and that I
was never directed to take the initiative in establishing contacts with
the "underworld." I said that "several," probably no more than five
or six, of the people with whom I dealt were "somewhat" shady characters
in some cases with recorded "run-ins" with law enforcement agencies.

Charles D. Ford Chief of Training Services Staff, OTR

Knowing from Power's 1997 book review in the NYRB and his more recent book that my main nemesis - Max Holland, Black Slyde Hersh, Sam Halpern and others on the Dark Side were on to Charles Donald Ford, and were saying that he was the CIA man from JM/WAVE who RFK sent on missions like getting the mob to kill Castro, I wondered why they didn't quote Ford directly. After all, they've been chasing Ford for ten years before I even heard of him, and certainly must have gotten the NARA docs that were released by the JFK Act.

Then when Robert Howard sent me the one doc, which referers to others, I could understand why the Dark Siders dropped Ford like a hot tamale. He didn't back their thesis that RFK ordered Ford to get the mob to kill Castro.

As Ford himself says:

6. We spent a great deal of time going over my meetings with the Attorney
General and his interest in a small group of Cubans who claimed to have
supporters ready to create an uprising in Santiago Province. This is the
case described in paragraph 3 of my earlier memorandum. The investigators
were quite interested in the identity of the man whom I saw at the
request of the Attorney General. I went over this again in as much
detail as I could remember, but without being able to recall who this
man was........

17. This is probably the appropriate point to underline my conviction
that the main, if not the only point of concern to the investigators
is whether I was directed to sally forth and initiate contact with
members of the underworld in the U.S. and who directed me to do so.
Their interest is even more pointedly focused on whether I had anything
to do with the Rosselli, Giancana, et al, "operations." Once again, I
explained that my job was broader than this by a longshot and that I
was never directed to take the initiative in establishing contacts with
the "underworld." I said that "several," probably no more than five
or six, of the people with whom I dealt were "somewhat" shady characters
in some cases with recorded "run-ins" with law enforcement agencies.

Charles D. Ford Chief of Training Services Staff, OTR


From the NARA Riffs of C.D. Ford docs released under JFK Act, there is the one doc from OSS days, 1945, in which Ford is sent to China with J. Walton Moore.

The significance of the Ford-Moore association in the OSS has yet to be properly reviewed, but I would think it important, especially if they maintained their association and perhaps even friendship, up to and including 1963.

If DeMorhenschildt asked Moore, his Domestic Contacts Division CIA debriefer, about LHO and Moore checked and came back and said LHO "was okay," that would presumably be a check with DC.

If DeMorn also told Moore about LHO, the rifle and the Walker shooting, then that would or could explain how Dr./Col. Jose Rivera (USAR) in DC knew LHO was suspect in the shooting in April 1963, within weeks of it happening and seven months before the Germans would break the news.

Of course that would presume an association/connection between Moore and Rivera that's yet to be established.

It is more than fascinating that J.W. Moore and J.D. Ford were associated as far back as 0SS in 1945.

So there is a LHO-DeMorn-Moore-Ford connection that is less than six degrees of separation.

Does anybody else see anything in this?

BK

"....And there is more, including abundant evidence that Bobby Kennedy with General Edward Lansdale, was involved in his own plots to assassinate Castro, and that to this end he had a CIA employee named Charlie Ford search for Mafia operatives....."

Joan Mellen -

Stewart Mott House, Washington, D.C., September 14, 2007.
WHO RULES AMERICA? HOW DID WE GET HERE?

which can be found here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...c=11961&hl=

Very interesting thread but I must have missed something. From the documents it appears
that Ford was assigned by WAVE as a liason to RFK and assisted in meeting with a variety of
Cubans who might be of interest in a coup or other acts against Castro. We know that RFK
was very interested in that and was reaching out to a lot of exiles ..sometimes using his own
personal network as well. But what (other than some Church committee suspicion) have we seen
that justifies Hersh's comment e.g.

"...According to notes obtained by (Black Slyde) Hersh,...Hersh also learned that in 1962, while the assassination efforts involving the Mafia hit men were still under way, Bobby Kennedy was assigned his own operaitonal officer in the CIA, a man named Charles Ford picked from the staff of Task Force W, then commanded by (William) Harvey. Ford's job was to handle contacts with Mafia chiefs while traveling under the pseudonym of Rocky Fiscalini, a name (along with Ford's own) that appears in Bobby Kennedy's office logs for 1962. But what Ford actually did for Kennedy remains unknown."

And of course Ford reported everything he did and his contacts with RFK back to wave, very handy.
Easy to understand why Bobby used some independent contacts as well.

Not being an avid fan of Hersh I question if he didn't stir in a little of his own agenda in the quote above?

But I may have missed something in the thread...?

-- thanks, Larry

No Larry, I think you got it all. While Hersh fits in with the level of the Summers/Talbot/Morley standards of journalistic responsibilities, he didn't disguise his feelings in the Dark Side, and certainly stretches reality from what is known of the same public record you and I know.

The C.D. Ford connections only play into the hands of those rabid anti-RFK subjects/suspects - looking for the proof that RFK okayed the kill Castro team who killed his brother.

But the truth of the matter is that Ford was in the same OSS unit as J. W. Moore, same Princeton as Dulles, was from the same old Atlantic City neighborhood as John Martino, and he was part of the JM/WAVE nexus, and he was used to set up RFK as part of the coup to kill the President. Just as the leader of the Northen Alliance had to be assassinated two days before 9/11, cutting off the head of the most immediate response to the attacks - RFK had to be neutralized before his brother was killed.

This is best reflected in the response of the Powers/Hersh/Holland hound dogs hot after Ford years before we ever heard about him - and then silence - After announcing Ford had all the answers, after getting his story, which didn't reflect their world view of things, it was simply discarded.

Well, I think we should find out as much as possible about Charles Donald Ford, "Donny" not "Charlie" Joan - and see what was really going on.

What do you think, Larry?

BK

OK Bill, that's more like it. If we drop the RFK/Mafia diversion and dig into the connections between Ford and the SE Asian old boy
network I think that is of great interest.

As you know from SWHT, I have strong suspicions that that particular clique may have not only have set a context for the JFK
conspiracy but for a good number of other foul deeds for the next decade or so....fellow travelers on the dark side.

And I don't think that RFK would have been assigned a liason just by taking the first guy who had a free schedule that day...

-- with you now, Larry

From David Kaiser's The Road to Dallas, Criminals, Cubans, Kennedys, and the CIA, p. 114

You wouldn't know it from the index, but there is a good, strong reference to C.D. Ford:

"Robert Kennedy's intense personal interest in the Cuban question continued to cause problems for the CIA. Because his support for Cuban rebels was well known, exile groups made many attempts to contact him. On September 24 the attorney general visited with Ernesto Betancourt, leader of a small Cuban Liberation Army (Ejercito de Liberacion Cubana, or ELC), which had apparently opened a modest training camp in Florida with the tolerance, if not the active supervision, of the CIA. 47. Kennedy told the CIA deputy director that, according to this group, an armed uprising was about to take place in Cuba, and they needed help. The attorney general went on to say, 'that Benancourt's group and its plans might fall within the framework of decisions reached by the Special Group about a month ago, and that, therefore, someone appearing to be other than a CIA officer should get in touch with Betancourt' and find out what was happening."

"In an attempt to confirm this story, an unidentified CIA agent spoke to Eduardo Perez Gonzales, also known as Captain Bayo. He had worked in 1961 as a crew member on the CIA-sponsored boat Tejana, which had been active in the waters around Cuba before the Bay of Pigs. Bayo confirmed what Betncourt said. He predicted an uprising of 15,000 men on September 30 and asked an American representative to meet with its leaders at Guantanamo on September 28.

The agent , known as Charles Ford, advised the Cubans to stop the uprising, which was also supposed to involve the assassination of Fidel and Raoul Castro and Che Guevara[b].

[/b]JMWAVE reported that Bayo claimed to have swum from Guantanamo into Cuba and met with rebel leaders in mid month. But when the agency asked the Office of Naval Intelligence at Guantanamo, they replied that Bayo had not made it into Cuba at all. By October 4 a presumably exasperated William Harvey informed the attorney general that Bayo's story did not hold up and that nothing was to be gained by any further contact with him. 48. Despite Bayo's lies, no one serious investigated the possibility that the whole story - and especially the request for a meeting in Guantanamo - might have been a Castro inspired provocation..."

p.115.

No, David, no one except Mad Max Holland, "They call me Gus" Russo and other CIA appologists and propagandists would even think that it all meant that it was "a Castro inspired provocation." Everybody else who knows what's going on would think it was a CIA inspired provocation.

Since we've already established that C.D. Ford and J. Walton Moore were in the same 0SS unit and assigned to Southeast Asia together during WWII, I would think that any and all references to "Charlie" C.D. Ford would be of interest.

Charles, aka C.D. Ford, the Atlantic City native who grew up in the same small, Ducktown neighborhood as one of Kaiser's chief suspects in the conspiracy, John Martino, the same C.D. Ford who attended Holy Spirt High School, Princeton, OSS and career CIA, Domestic Contacts Division and Training for decades, except for a few months when sent "operational" and assigned to JMWAVE, and made RFK's liason to CIA.

Charlie Ford.

Major Player. Knight, Bishop or Rook.

BK

So we have C. D. Ford and J. Walton Moore together in OSS in SEA during WWII, with Ford going into CIA Training section, where he stayed pretty much his entire career, except for his year or so assignment with JMWAVE and RFK/CIA liason, whatever that means.

J.W. Moore on the other hand, was in the Domestic Contacts Division (DCD), that reputedly interviewed Americans returning from abroad, for most of his career, which was limited for the most part to Dallas/Texas area.

So who did Ford and Moore report to officially, in their respective departments - Training and DOD?

BK