Do any of us will ever like to live under any other form of government than democracy?
In how much time do you think it is possible that Great Britain, France, Hollland or Spain collapse as free societies and fall into the hands of islamo-facism?
Full Version: Radical Islam and Democracy
Do you think that expansion of radical islam around the world is going to put and end to western civilization?
Do any of us will ever like to live under any other form of government than democracy?
In how much time do you think it is possible that Great Britain, France, Hollland or Spain collapse as free societies and fall into the hands of islamo-facism?
Do any of us will ever like to live under any other form of government than democracy?
In how much time do you think it is possible that Great Britain, France, Hollland or Spain collapse as free societies and fall into the hands of islamo-facism?
QUOTE (Pierre Carbonneau @ Nov 21 2007, 04:55 AM) 
Do you think that expansion of radical islam around the world is going to put and end to western civilization?
Do any of us will ever like to live under any other form of government than democracy?
In how much time do you think it is possible that Great Britain, France, Hollland or Spain collapse as free societies and fall into the hands of islamo-facism?
Do any of us will ever like to live under any other form of government than democracy?
In how much time do you think it is possible that Great Britain, France, Hollland or Spain collapse as free societies and fall into the hands of islamo-facism?
No chance of this happening. When given the chance, most muslims males do not act according to muslim rules (they do of course try to get their women to do so because it is a male dominated religion). I lived in Brighton a couple of years ago and large numbers of muslims in the clubs and casinos. Islam has little attraction for those living in western societies.
The main issue concerns how muslims will be treated in western democracies. For example, in the UK I fully expect to see the end of muslim state schools.
QUOTE (John Simkin @ Nov 21 2007, 02:18 AM)
QUOTE (Pierre Carbonneau @ Nov 21 2007, 04:55 AM)
Do you think that expansion of radical islam around the world is going to put and end to western civilization?
Do any of us will ever like to live under any other form of government than democracy?
In how much time do you think it is possible that Great Britain, France, Hollland or Spain collapse as free societies and fall into the hands of islamo-facism?
Do any of us will ever like to live under any other form of government than democracy?
In how much time do you think it is possible that Great Britain, France, Hollland or Spain collapse as free societies and fall into the hands of islamo-facism?
No chance of this happening. When given the chance, most muslims males do not act according to muslim rules (they do of course try to get their women to do so because it is a male dominated religion). I lived in Brighton a couple of years ago and large numbers of muslims in the clubs and casinos. Islam has little attraction for those living in western societies.
The main issue concerns how muslims will be treated in western democracies. For example, in the UK I fully expect to see the end of muslim state schools.
Hello John,
I wish I should be as optimistic as you are, but I'm not...
A form of intolerant Islam is on the rise, it is called "salafism" or "wahabism"... It is promoted by Saudi Arabia and financed by big oil money... So is the islamic terrorism promoting jihad, the war against the kuffars in the Dar al Harb lands...
Did you watch this Channel 4 documentary: Undercover Mosque?
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=sowX5j2-i4I
May I suggest you read Peter Dale Scott's new book entitled The Road To 9/11. [although I could name others] that will show you that most all of the Islamic 'terrorists and extremists' of your imagination, having bought the Oligarchy's propaganda, are of OUR MAKING...trained by us, armed by us....doing our bidding. Read also The Great War For Civilization by Robert Fisk to see how first Britain and then the USA have been the agents provocateures and the evil ones in the Middle East....to the extreme. The Arabl and Islamic peoples are just like you and me and care about life, their children, their day-to-day lives, liberty and being left alone. WE have been the problem and the 'stone in their shoes' and lives....because of the geopoliticial greed for their land and oil. Shame on us...not on them. I'd also suggest you read Chis Hedges book American Fascists about the Christian Radicals who, in my humble opinion are a whole hell of a lot more dangerous at the moment and the ones who stired up much of the hornets nest of revenge in the Middle East.
QUOTE (Peter Lemkin @ Nov 21 2007, 09:24 AM)
May I suggest you read Peter Dale Scott's new book entitled The Road To 9/11. [although I could name others] that will show you that most all of the Islamic 'terrorists and extremists' of your imagination, having bought the Oligarchy's propaganda, are of OUR MAKING...trained by us, armed by us....doing our bidding. Read also The Great War For Civilization by Robert Fisk to see how first Britain and then the USA have been the agents provocateures and the evil ones in the Middle East....to the extreme. The Arabl and Islamic peoples are just like you and me and care about life, their children, their day-to-day lives, liberty and being left alone. WE have been the problem and the 'stone in their shoes' and lives....because of the geopoliticial greed for their land and oil. Shame on us...not on them. I'd also suggest you read Chis Hedges book American Fascists about the Christian Radicals who, in my humble opinion are a whole hell of a lot more dangerous at the moment and the ones who stired up much of the hornets nest of revenge in the Middle East.
dear Peter,
You are already speaking like a dhimmi, not like a freeman...
Too much leaders of the Free World act as Chamberlains in regard of the coming islamist menace...
Believing that 9/11, 3/11 or the 7/7 "incidents" are figments of the imagination is pure delerium tremens...
Christian radicals who regard the Biblical vision of Armageddon as a policy aim are particularly scary, especially when they have links with people who control nuclear weapons. (And the reading list kindly provided on this thread will therefore remain on hold till I've got through someone's 1000 page thesis on Christian Zionism!)
However, other Christian radicals are, on the contrary, involved in peace-making.
Islamic radicals made a name for themselves in North Africa after the Second World War because 'Western Civilization' appeared to offer very little to the poor, while some of the radical movements did. Radical muslim self-help and educational organisations sprang up, and brought about a certain degree of redistribution of wealth - something most governments failed to do.
'Western civilization', 'Democracy', and 'Islamic radicalism' are all terms capable of fairly wide interpretation and of conjuring up differing pictures. One such picture summed the question up for me. Any sort of religion which is enthusiastically supported looks scary to 'Guardian' readers in Britain, and I often wonder whether when that newspaper published a photograph showing a mass array of muslim men bowing down to the ground in a public park in a British city they were deliberately setting out to disturb their readers' sensibilities. Christianity in Britain, on the other hand, finds it difficult to recruit men, even as priests, and unlike Islam only functions one day a week. It has been suggested very reasonably, therefore, that Islam could replace Christianity as the main religion in Britain.
Europe seemed to discover democracy in the 17th Century at around the same time as it developed capitalism, and both these concepts have gone global and appear to be here to stay irrespective of what happens to the spiritual landscape. Personally I would like to see all religions concentrating on the task of redistribution of wealth (towards the poor rather than the priesthood I suppose I have to add!) which is one thing global capitalism seems incapable of tackling.
A key ingredient of democracy is tolerance. It is interesting that the historian of civilizations, Arnold Toynbee, cited the Ottoman Empire as an example of tolerance existing as it did in a period in history when Europe was still struggling with the term.
However, other Christian radicals are, on the contrary, involved in peace-making.
Islamic radicals made a name for themselves in North Africa after the Second World War because 'Western Civilization' appeared to offer very little to the poor, while some of the radical movements did. Radical muslim self-help and educational organisations sprang up, and brought about a certain degree of redistribution of wealth - something most governments failed to do.
'Western civilization', 'Democracy', and 'Islamic radicalism' are all terms capable of fairly wide interpretation and of conjuring up differing pictures. One such picture summed the question up for me. Any sort of religion which is enthusiastically supported looks scary to 'Guardian' readers in Britain, and I often wonder whether when that newspaper published a photograph showing a mass array of muslim men bowing down to the ground in a public park in a British city they were deliberately setting out to disturb their readers' sensibilities. Christianity in Britain, on the other hand, finds it difficult to recruit men, even as priests, and unlike Islam only functions one day a week. It has been suggested very reasonably, therefore, that Islam could replace Christianity as the main religion in Britain.
Europe seemed to discover democracy in the 17th Century at around the same time as it developed capitalism, and both these concepts have gone global and appear to be here to stay irrespective of what happens to the spiritual landscape. Personally I would like to see all religions concentrating on the task of redistribution of wealth (towards the poor rather than the priesthood I suppose I have to add!) which is one thing global capitalism seems incapable of tackling.
A key ingredient of democracy is tolerance. It is interesting that the historian of civilizations, Arnold Toynbee, cited the Ottoman Empire as an example of tolerance existing as it did in a period in history when Europe was still struggling with the term.
QUOTE (Pierre Carbonneau @ Nov 21 2007, 07:43 PM)
QUOTE (Peter Lemkin @ Nov 21 2007, 09:24 AM)
May I suggest you read Peter Dale Scott's new book entitled The Road To 9/11. [although I could name others] that will show you that most all of the Islamic 'terrorists and extremists' of your imagination, having bought the Oligarchy's propaganda, are of OUR MAKING...trained by us, armed by us....doing our bidding. Read also The Great War For Civilization by Robert Fisk to see how first Britain and then the USA have been the agents provocateures and the evil ones in the Middle East....to the extreme. The Arabl and Islamic peoples are just like you and me and care about life, their children, their day-to-day lives, liberty and being left alone. WE have been the problem and the 'stone in their shoes' and lives....because of the geopoliticial greed for their land and oil. Shame on us...not on them. I'd also suggest you read Chis Hedges book American Fascists about the Christian Radicals who, in my humble opinion are a whole hell of a lot more dangerous at the moment and the ones who stired up much of the hornets nest of revenge in the Middle East.
dear Peter,
You are already speaking like a dhimmi, not like a freeman...
Too much leaders of the Free World act as Chamberlains in regard of the coming islamist menace...
Believing that 9/11, 3/11 or the 7/7 "incidents" are figments of the imagination is pure delerium tremens...
You, I fear, are the one trapped in the delusion....brought to you by the Oligarchy...looking for a scapegoat [which you have 'bought' whole hog]. The scapegoat once were the Jews...and I know being one and my uncle having written the Genocide Convention, having been a legal expert at Nuremburg and having lost most of his/our family. Now the scapegoat are the 'Islamofascists'. I DARE you to read those books I mentioned. I bet you won't....as your 'religious' beliefs must not be challenged...the 'devil' must remain the devil and the 'good guys' who you think are fighting for you [they are only fighting to control all of us] are on your side.....get serious.....this kind of divide an conquer is as old as time. It is hard to believe we've been lied to...but we have...whether you are British of American...both of our governments are heading [America far in the lead] authoritarian and neo-fascist. As to my being a freeman, I invite you to read my biography and the link it has in it.
I think for myself...I'm 'unembedded' in the mythology and lies of a society....any one...and any religion...all paradigms. And as an ethinic Jew [but atheist] I also say shame on Israel, who is to a very large extent [due to the rightwing militarists there in control - working with their counterparts in the USA.] responsible for this 'mess' by not sharing the land and the liberty with the Palastinians. Scott's book [which you are probably afraid to read] documents [as do many other books] that bin Laden and other 'terrorists' were organized, trained, funded, and armed by the US CIA first against the Russians and then to support the Taliban and now we are getting what is known as 'blowback' for our own criminal activity. I'd point out, however, that the first and second WTC bombing/crash participants all had US and British Intelligence Pakistani ISI connections. As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us." I'd also paraphrase Ghandi when asked what he thought about Western Civilization, paused and thought, then anwered, 'That would be a wonderful idea'. In my life I've seen the great hero's [sic] who saved the world from fascism now embrace it and head right into the shoes of their former enemy. Sadly. May you see the light and not buy the propaganda traps laid for you everywhere by the government puppets and their controlled media - all fronting for a small elite Oligarchy who want only money and power and do NOT believe in democracy, freedoms, liberties, peace nor justice if they interfere with their goals.
On direct 9/11 US-Intelligence connections http://www.911exposed.org/Hijackers.htm
but none better than Peter Dale Scott's book mentioned above. Open and closed case.
NB - just noticed you are in Canada, and likely Canadian. Do you know about the RCMP and other connections to the JFK and MKL assassinations, and other such 'things' some in Canada did for their brothers in crime [CIA] down under? Well, in Canada you're going to have a front-row seat watching the big neighbor to your south head to a policestate, now well underway!..I [and others] fight against it. We all must. I have NO doubt that 9/11 was an inside job to move the USA into a pre-policestate - positioning it for the final 'blow' with the next false-flag action. Reichstag Fire all over again. Fool us once, shame on you....fool us twice, shame on us! This Forum has much good info on the truth of these matters. Here is a good place to start your amazement and amusement: http://www.911exposed.org/index.htm and here: http://patriotsquestion911.com/
http://911rippleeffect.com/
Good luck.....[do you know who 'Lawrence of Arabia' was a covert operative for?!]
I reject radicals in any religion or power/control stucture. The most dangerous radicals now are inside the beltway in the USA and in the corporate boadrooms - most especially in those of the military-industrial-perpetual war companies. Peace and sanity now.....uno mundo!
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