I have just noticed some questions re the Mel McIntire photo:
1. Clint Hill is NOT seen on the trunk. Where is he?
2. Only two SS men are on the runningboards of the QM;
There were four minus Hill, so there should be three;
Where is the missing one?
3. Who are the three motorcops? I can't find a record
naming them right now.
Jack
Full Version: McIntire photo questions
Jack,
I darkened only the area where Clint is, so he stands out.
Amazing that he has his right arm angled up to his neck, and I assume hanging on with the other hand.
Looks more like JFK than Clint.
chris
I darkened only the area where Clint is, so he stands out.
Amazing that he has his right arm angled up to his neck, and I assume hanging on with the other hand.
Looks more like JFK than Clint.
chris
Chris...that appears to be the driver of the QM, with the steering wheel in his
hand. Besides, your man is on the right side of the trunk, and Clint was on
the left.
Jack
At first, I thought it was the driver too.
It looks to me as if Clint's body is blocking the front end of the QM?
Follow the QM hoodline to Clint. He's in front of it. imo
chris
4. Who is 'hiding' behind the lamp post? Pickup Truck person #4?
Jack,
Third agent on running board.
Although he appears to be a midget compared to the agent beside him.
chris
Third agent on running board.
Although he appears to be a midget compared to the agent beside him.
chris
How far was Jackie hanging out of the car?
chris
chris
Edited:
QUOTE(Jack White @ Dec 10 2007, 07:36 AM) 
Chris...that appears to be the driver of the QM, with the steering wheel in his
hand. Besides, your man is on the right side of the trunk, and Clint was on
the left.
Jack
hand. Besides, your man is on the right side of the trunk, and Clint was on
the left.
Jack
Jack,
If that's not Clint on the right side in the McIntire photo, when did he change to the right side? I've never seen a photo of him
on the way to the hospital where he is on the left side.
Why isn't he protruding above the back of the limo on the left side?
chris
I guess that's Clint.
chris
chris
QUOTE(Chris Davidson @ Dec 10 2007, 06:27 AM)
Jack,
I darkened only the area where Clint is, so he stands out.
Amazing that he has his right arm angled up to his neck, and I assume hanging on with the other hand.
Looks more like JFK than Clint.
chris
I darkened only the area where Clint is, so he stands out.
Amazing that he has his right arm angled up to his neck, and I assume hanging on with the other hand.
Looks more like JFK than Clint.
chris
Chris...that is the driver of the QM. You can see the steering wheel in his hand.
Jack
QUOTE(Chris Davidson @ Dec 10 2007, 06:55 AM)
Jack,
Third agent on running board.
Although he appears to be a midget compared to the agent beside him.
chris
Third agent on running board.
Although he appears to be a midget compared to the agent beside him.
chris
Chris...there were NO SS agents three feet tall.
Jack
QUOTE(Chris Davidson @ Dec 14 2007, 02:33 AM)
I guess that's Clint.
chris
chris
Thanks Chris! I think you found the missing MC cop! Notice in your clip there is a SHADOW... BETWEEN the JFK Limo and the Queen Mary! Can't be another car!
By jove I think you have it!
Craig,
Don't make a judgement on this with the 6 frame animation I provided.
That was just to show Clint's movement above the limo.
There are more frames to this, and as the cars get closer to the filmer, it appears that what you have pointed out is the
shadow from under the QM.
If you have the Jack Daniels film, please take a look for a better perspective.
If not, I will post it tomorrow.
chris
Don't make a judgement on this with the 6 frame animation I provided.
That was just to show Clint's movement above the limo.
There are more frames to this, and as the cars get closer to the filmer, it appears that what you have pointed out is the
shadow from under the QM.
If you have the Jack Daniels film, please take a look for a better perspective.
If not, I will post it tomorrow.
chris
QUOTE(Chris Davidson @ Dec 14 2007, 03:07 PM)
Craig,
Don't make a judgement on this with the 6 frame animation I provided.
That was just to show Clint's movement above the limo.
There are more frames to this, and as the cars get closer to the filmer, it appears that what you have pointed out is the
shadow from under the QM.
If you have the Jack Daniels film, please take a look for a better perspective.
If not, I will post it tomorrow.
chris
Don't make a judgement on this with the 6 frame animation I provided.
That was just to show Clint's movement above the limo.
There are more frames to this, and as the cars get closer to the filmer, it appears that what you have pointed out is the
shadow from under the QM.
If you have the Jack Daniels film, please take a look for a better perspective.
If not, I will post it tomorrow.
chris
As good as i can get it.
Why did McIntire take his fist image of the presidents limo coming straight at him, and then in his second image totally ignore the limo with clint hill hanging over the back seat.
Why instead take a picture of the follow up car in preference to the Limo. !
Click to view attachment
Has this image been cropped. ?
How close were the two cars at this point. ?
McIntire2 doesnt seem to show as wide a field of view as McIntire1.
Are both photos the same size format: as i asume they were taken with the same camera.
Click to view attachment
How close were the two cars at this point. ?
McIntire2 doesnt seem to show as wide a field of view as McIntire1.
Are both photos the same size format: as i asume they were taken with the same camera.
Click to view attachment
QUOTE(Chris Davidson @ Dec 14 2007, 06:37 AM)
Craig,
Don't make a judgement on this with the 6 frame animation I provided.
That was just to show Clint's movement above the limo.
There are more frames to this, and as the cars get closer to the filmer, it appears that what you have pointed out is the
shadow from under the QM.
If you have the Jack Daniels film, please take a look for a better perspective.
If not, I will post it tomorrow.
chris
Don't make a judgement on this with the 6 frame animation I provided.
That was just to show Clint's movement above the limo.
There are more frames to this, and as the cars get closer to the filmer, it appears that what you have pointed out is the
shadow from under the QM.
If you have the Jack Daniels film, please take a look for a better perspective.
If not, I will post it tomorrow.
chris
Viewing the clip...you are correct. Thanks.
QUOTE(Robin Unger @ Dec 14 2007, 05:34 PM)
Has this image been cropped. ?
How close were the two cars at this point. ?
McIntire2 doesnt seem to show as wide a field of view as McIntire1.
Are both photos the same size format: as i asume they were taken with the same camera.
How close were the two cars at this point. ?
McIntire2 doesnt seem to show as wide a field of view as McIntire1.
Are both photos the same size format: as i asume they were taken with the same camera.
Quote:
Robin,
Mel McIntire made only three pictures. The third was a few minutes later and farther up the entrance ramp to Stemmons. Several officers and reporters, including Dallas Times Herald photographer Bob Jackson, can be seen near a police motorcycle. The Depository warehouse (north of the TSBD) is visible in the background. The Sixth Floor Museum has a first generation copy negative of the first two pictures and a contact sheet of all three original negatives. McIntire used size 120 film and all the images are 56mm x 56mm.
Gary Mack
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Dec 14 2007, 06:38 AM)
Thanks Chris! I think you found the missing MC cop! Notice in your clip there is a SHADOW... BETWEEN the JFK Limo and the Queen Mary! Can't be another car!
By jove I think you have it!
By jove I think you have it!
From Gary Mack ...
"Both Jack White and Craig Lamson are wrong about the number of motorcycle officers seen in the Mel McIntire photo. There are six – not five, not seven. The three in front are obvious. Officer four is Jim Chaney, number five is B.J. Martin, and number six is D.V. Harkness, who is hidden behind Craig’s number 5. Harkness can be seen driving west on Main in the Hughes film at almost the exact moment McIntire made his picture.
How do I know? Well, there were no other officers ahead of Chaney and Martin other than the three lead officers riding in front of Chief Curry; therefore, the officers pointed out by Lamson must be something else – and they are. The shadows come from LBJ’s car and his Secret Service follow-up car.
The best version of the McIntire photo is the giant blowup on exhibit at The Sixth Floor Museum; that image came directly from McIntire’s original negative and it shows just six motorcycles: five on Elm and one on Main."
???
- One MC cop stopped on Elm st and dismounted.
- Two are passing under the UP.
- Four preceded and of those, two are ahead of the pic, and the MC cop in question has gone ahead and joined, formed the trio.(after doing what he said).
- Clint's head is low leaning out to shout to the initial lead car (Curry's) hence can't be seen above visors.
- The right MC is gearing, the middle has just signalled, the left is not gearing,
- The right has two stripes.
- One MC cop stopped on Elm st and dismounted.
- Two are passing under the UP.
- Four preceded and of those, two are ahead of the pic, and the MC cop in question has gone ahead and joined, formed the trio.(after doing what he said).
- Clint's head is low leaning out to shout to the initial lead car (Curry's) hence can't be seen above visors.
- The right MC is gearing, the middle has just signalled, the left is not gearing,
- The right has two stripes.
QUOTE(John Dolva @ Dec 15 2007, 02:08 AM)
???
- One MC cop stopped on Elm st and dismounted.
- Two are passing under the UP.
- Four preceded and of those, two are ahead of the pic, and the MC cop in question has gone ahead and joined, formed the trio.(after doing what he said).
- Clint's head is low leaning out to shout to the initial lead car (Curry's) hence can't be seen above visors.
- The right MC is gearing, the middle has just signalled, the left is not gearing,
- The right has two stripes.
- One MC cop stopped on Elm st and dismounted.
- Two are passing under the UP.
- Four preceded and of those, two are ahead of the pic, and the MC cop in question has gone ahead and joined, formed the trio.(after doing what he said).
- Clint's head is low leaning out to shout to the initial lead car (Curry's) hence can't be seen above visors.
- The right MC is gearing, the middle has just signalled, the left is not gearing,
- The right has two stripes.
***********
Hi John.....
Two MC riders stopped on Elm, Clyde Haygood parked his bike just in front of the turnpike sign, on the right hand side , looking at the overpass....
and ran up the knoll to the corner of the fence and Overpass..
...Bobby Hargis parked his bike on the left hand side of the street, ran across the road and up to the cement wall on the left of the Pergola..Zapruder
pedestal.......
B,,,,,
QUOTE(Bernice Moore @ Dec 15 2007, 08:42 AM)
QUOTE(John Dolva @ Dec 15 2007, 02:08 AM)
???
- One MC cop stopped on Elm st and dismounted.
- Two are passing under the UP.
- Four preceded and of those, two are ahead of the pic, and the MC cop in question has gone ahead and joined, formed the trio.(after doing what he said).
- Clint's head is low leaning out to shout to the initial lead car (Curry's) hence can't be seen above visors.
- The right MC is gearing, the middle has just signalled, the left is not gearing,
- The right has two stripes.
- One MC cop stopped on Elm st and dismounted.
- Two are passing under the UP.
- Four preceded and of those, two are ahead of the pic, and the MC cop in question has gone ahead and joined, formed the trio.(after doing what he said).
- Clint's head is low leaning out to shout to the initial lead car (Curry's) hence can't be seen above visors.
- The right MC is gearing, the middle has just signalled, the left is not gearing,
- The right has two stripes.
***********
Hi John.....
Two MC riders stopped on Elm, Clyde Haygood parked his bike just in front of the turnpike sign, on the right hand side , looking at the overpass....
and ran up the knoll to the corner of the fence and Overpass..
...Bobby Hargis parked his bike on the left hand side of the street, ran across the road and up to the cement wall on the left of the Pergola..Zapruder
pedestal.......
B,,,,,
OK, thank you Bernice. Part questions answered. Thank you. Back to the 'drawing board'...
QUOTE(John Dolva @ Dec 15 2007, 03:58 AM)
QUOTE(Bernice Moore @ Dec 15 2007, 08:42 AM)
QUOTE(John Dolva @ Dec 15 2007, 02:08 AM)
???
- One MC cop stopped on Elm st and dismounted.
- Two are passing under the UP.
- Four preceded and of those, two are ahead of the pic, and the MC cop in question has gone ahead and joined, formed the trio.(after doing what he said).
- Clint's head is low leaning out to shout to the initial lead car (Curry's) hence can't be seen above visors.
- The right MC is gearing, the middle has just signalled, the left is not gearing,
- The right has two stripes.
- One MC cop stopped on Elm st and dismounted.
- Two are passing under the UP.
- Four preceded and of those, two are ahead of the pic, and the MC cop in question has gone ahead and joined, formed the trio.(after doing what he said).
- Clint's head is low leaning out to shout to the initial lead car (Curry's) hence can't be seen above visors.
- The right MC is gearing, the middle has just signalled, the left is not gearing,
- The right has two stripes.
***********
Hi John.....
Two MC riders stopped on Elm, Clyde Haygood parked his bike just in front of the turnpike sign, on the right hand side , looking at the overpass....
and ran up the knoll to the corner of the fence and Overpass..
...Bobby Hargis parked his bike on the left hand side of the street, ran across the road and up to the cement wall on the left of the Pergola..Zapruder
pedestal.......
B,,,,,
OK, thank you Bernice. Part questions answered. Thank you. Back to the 'drawing board'...
*******************
John:
I have found this Couch frame.....I believe it is one of Chris Davison's.....
Chris correct me if this is in error....thanks...
I believe it is correct.....
B.....
It appears to me that Johnsons car can also be seen in McIntire, it appears to be right on the bumper of the Queen Mary.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
QUOTE(Bernice Moore @ Dec 15 2007, 09:13 AM)
QUOTE(John Dolva @ Dec 15 2007, 03:58 AM)
QUOTE(Bernice Moore @ Dec 15 2007, 08:42 AM)
QUOTE(John Dolva @ Dec 15 2007, 02:08 AM)
???
- One MC cop stopped on Elm st and dismounted.
- Two are passing under the UP.
- Four preceded and of those, two are ahead of the pic, and the MC cop in question has gone ahead and joined, formed the trio.(after doing what he said).
- Clint's head is low leaning out to shout to the initial lead car (Curry's) hence can't be seen above visors.
- The right MC is gearing, the middle has just signalled, the left is not gearing,
- The right has two stripes.
- One MC cop stopped on Elm st and dismounted.
- Two are passing under the UP.
- Four preceded and of those, two are ahead of the pic, and the MC cop in question has gone ahead and joined, formed the trio.(after doing what he said).
- Clint's head is low leaning out to shout to the initial lead car (Curry's) hence can't be seen above visors.
- The right MC is gearing, the middle has just signalled, the left is not gearing,
- The right has two stripes.
***********
Hi John.....
Two MC riders stopped on Elm, Clyde Haygood parked his bike just in front of the turnpike sign, on the right hand side , looking at the overpass....
and ran up the knoll to the corner of the fence and Overpass..
...Bobby Hargis parked his bike on the left hand side of the street, ran across the road and up to the cement wall on the left of the Pergola..Zapruder
pedestal.......
B,,,,,
OK, thank you Bernice. Part questions answered. Thank you. Back to the 'drawing board'...
*******************
John:
I have found this Couch frame.....I believe it is one of Chris Davison's.....
Chris correct me if this is in error....thanks...
I believe it is correct.....
B.....
Bernice,
That is either from Couch or Darnell.
Robin did the labeling for us.
Please remember ALL MC cops in Couch/Darnell are NOT part of the 8 MC (lead group) that we see in earlier footage.
Part of the lead group is, who we see in McIntire, Bell and Daniels.
Of course this is based on the existing footage that we have.
The MC in Bell that Robin has supplied, is part of the lead group.
chris
QUOTE(Chris Davidson @ Dec 15 2007, 12:11 PM)
QUOTE(Bernice Moore @ Dec 15 2007, 09:13 AM)
QUOTE(John Dolva @ Dec 15 2007, 03:58 AM)
QUOTE(Bernice Moore @ Dec 15 2007, 08:42 AM)
QUOTE(John Dolva @ Dec 15 2007, 02:08 AM)
???
- One MC cop stopped on Elm st and dismounted.
- Two are passing under the UP.
- Four preceded and of those, two are ahead of the pic, and the MC cop in question has gone ahead and joined, formed the trio.(after doing what he said).
- Clint's head is low leaning out to shout to the initial lead car (Curry's) hence can't be seen above visors.
- The right MC is gearing, the middle has just signalled, the left is not gearing,
- The right has two stripes.
- One MC cop stopped on Elm st and dismounted.
- Two are passing under the UP.
- Four preceded and of those, two are ahead of the pic, and the MC cop in question has gone ahead and joined, formed the trio.(after doing what he said).
- Clint's head is low leaning out to shout to the initial lead car (Curry's) hence can't be seen above visors.
- The right MC is gearing, the middle has just signalled, the left is not gearing,
- The right has two stripes.
***********
Hi John.....
Two MC riders stopped on Elm, Clyde Haygood parked his bike just in front of the turnpike sign, on the right hand side , looking at the overpass....
and ran up the knoll to the corner of the fence and Overpass..
...Bobby Hargis parked his bike on the left hand side of the street, ran across the road and up to the cement wall on the left of the Pergola..Zapruder
pedestal.......
B,,,,,
OK, thank you Bernice. Part questions answered. Thank you. Back to the 'drawing board'...
*******************
John:
I have found this Couch frame.....I believe it is one of Chris Davison's.....
Chris correct me if this is in error....thanks...
I believe it is correct.....
B.....
Bernice,
That is either from Couch or Darnell.
Robin did the labeling for us.
Please remember ALL MC cops in Couch/Darnell are NOT part of the 8 MC (lead group) that we see in earlier footage.
Part of the lead group is, who we see in McIntire, Bell and Daniels.
Of course this is based on the existing footage that we have.
The MC in Bell that Robin has supplied, is part of the lead group.
chris
**************
Thanks Chris:
I have not my books at hand, and I knew you would be able to fill me in....
Robin thanks, and here is another frame from Bell ..FWIW.....
Bests B.....
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