Does anyone know anything about this person?
On 11/23 or 11/24/63 the Chicago Office of the Secret Service received a call from someone asking if the Chicago Office had any information on a John Heard.
According to Mary Ferrell's Chronologies, the office had cards on approximately 100 Heards and arrested a John Heard.
In his deposition before the HSCA, July 26, 1978, Jim Braden was asked if he had been in Chicago in October or November, 1963 and whether he knew a Thomas Mosley and if he knew a John Heard.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=41
I know in the past, people have said that Heard was really John Hurt, the person LHO was trying to call in North Carolina, but I'm not so sure.
Steve Thomas
Full Version: John Heard?
Steve
If my memory serves me correctly, the call was for a John Heard or a "phonetic" variation on that name. The use of the word "phonetic" is what has led people to believe that it may have been "phonetically" the name "John Hurt" that was uncovered during the HSCA.
Your dates are interesting, if correct, because the Oswald call to John Hurt did not occur until the late evening of, I believe, the 24th. If a call went out to any "Chicago Office" on the 23rd or early on the 24th for information about a John Heard it would be difficult to associate that name with the "Hurt" that Oswald attempted to contact late on the 24th.
Jim Root
If my memory serves me correctly, the call was for a John Heard or a "phonetic" variation on that name. The use of the word "phonetic" is what has led people to believe that it may have been "phonetically" the name "John Hurt" that was uncovered during the HSCA.
Your dates are interesting, if correct, because the Oswald call to John Hurt did not occur until the late evening of, I believe, the 24th. If a call went out to any "Chicago Office" on the 23rd or early on the 24th for information about a John Heard it would be difficult to associate that name with the "Hurt" that Oswald attempted to contact late on the 24th.
Jim Root
Jim,
A couple of thoughts:
The call to Hurt in North Carolina was placed on the 23rd. By the evening of the 24th, Oswald was dead.
In April, 1970 a Sherman Skolnick sued the National Archives for release of records relating to the alleged assassination plot in Chicago on November 2, 1963. The particulars of this suit can be found in the FBI JFK Assassination file, Section 172 beginning on about page 182.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=182
On page 185 of Section 172, it says, "On the night of November 23, 1963, one of the Secret Service Agents in Chicago received a call at home from a Secret Service Agent in Dallas who wanted "instant information" on the following: a) Klein's Sporting Goods Company... and the Oswald rifle, and
whether Oswald received money from Chicago as alleged in a Chicago newspaper.
(My own thoughts is that the Dallas Secret Service Agent was Inspector Kelly)
On page 186 it says that on the 24th, Maurice Matineau "called one of his secret service agents and asked him if he had ever heard of a John Heard, phonetically pronounced. Martineau asked the agent to "pull" all cards marked "Heard". There were approximately 100 such "Heards." It is believed that the Secret Service arrested a John Heard at that time; said name phonetically pronounced."
On page 193 of this Section 172, there is a copy of the John Hurt Dallas jail call card.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=193
If the call from Dallas to Chicago was made as a result of LHO's call to North Carolina, the Secret Service already knew that the man LHO called was spelled Hurt.
If LHO called North Carolina, why was Dallas asking Chicago for information?
Was Chicago the repository for Secret Service records? Why would Chicago have 100 records of Heards? That's a lot for one town, even one the size of Chicago.
Was, in fact, a John Heard arrested in Chicago?
Why was Jim Braden asked if he knew a Thomas Mosley and a John Heard in back to back questions immediately after being asked if he was in Chicago in October or November of 1963?
Steve Thomas
QUOTE(Jim Root @ Apr 9 2008, 04:17 PM) 
Steve
If my memory serves me correctly, the call was for a John Heard or a "phonetic" variation on that name. The use of the word "phonetic" is what has led people to believe that it may have been "phonetically" the name "John Hurt" that was uncovered during the HSCA.
Your dates are interesting, if correct, because the Oswald call to John Hurt did not occur until the late evening of, I believe, the 24th. If a call went out to any "Chicago Office" on the 23rd or early on the 24th for information about a John Heard it would be difficult to associate that name with the "Hurt" that Oswald attempted to contact late on the 24th.
Jim Root
If my memory serves me correctly, the call was for a John Heard or a "phonetic" variation on that name. The use of the word "phonetic" is what has led people to believe that it may have been "phonetically" the name "John Hurt" that was uncovered during the HSCA.
Your dates are interesting, if correct, because the Oswald call to John Hurt did not occur until the late evening of, I believe, the 24th. If a call went out to any "Chicago Office" on the 23rd or early on the 24th for information about a John Heard it would be difficult to associate that name with the "Hurt" that Oswald attempted to contact late on the 24th.
Jim Root
A couple of thoughts:
The call to Hurt in North Carolina was placed on the 23rd. By the evening of the 24th, Oswald was dead.
In April, 1970 a Sherman Skolnick sued the National Archives for release of records relating to the alleged assassination plot in Chicago on November 2, 1963. The particulars of this suit can be found in the FBI JFK Assassination file, Section 172 beginning on about page 182.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=182
On page 185 of Section 172, it says, "On the night of November 23, 1963, one of the Secret Service Agents in Chicago received a call at home from a Secret Service Agent in Dallas who wanted "instant information" on the following: a) Klein's Sporting Goods Company... and the Oswald rifle, and
whether Oswald received money from Chicago as alleged in a Chicago newspaper.(My own thoughts is that the Dallas Secret Service Agent was Inspector Kelly)
On page 186 it says that on the 24th, Maurice Matineau "called one of his secret service agents and asked him if he had ever heard of a John Heard, phonetically pronounced. Martineau asked the agent to "pull" all cards marked "Heard". There were approximately 100 such "Heards." It is believed that the Secret Service arrested a John Heard at that time; said name phonetically pronounced."
On page 193 of this Section 172, there is a copy of the John Hurt Dallas jail call card.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=193
If the call from Dallas to Chicago was made as a result of LHO's call to North Carolina, the Secret Service already knew that the man LHO called was spelled Hurt.
If LHO called North Carolina, why was Dallas asking Chicago for information?
Was Chicago the repository for Secret Service records? Why would Chicago have 100 records of Heards? That's a lot for one town, even one the size of Chicago.
Was, in fact, a John Heard arrested in Chicago?
Why was Jim Braden asked if he knew a Thomas Mosley and a John Heard in back to back questions immediately after being asked if he was in Chicago in October or November of 1963?
Steve Thomas
Steve
Sorry about my misstatement of dates, I stand corrected.
Jim Root
Sorry about my misstatement of dates, I stand corrected.
Jim Root
Steve
Found this information that Ron Ecker has previously provided to me:
Document # 180-10070-10273 Is a 7 page document dated 1/19/78. It is an interview of Secret Service Agent Abraham Bolden by HSCA staffer Jim Kelly and Harold Rese.
The HSCA staffers thought Bolden could provide details on a possible conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy in Chicago on November 2, 1963. . . .
Bolden recalls Tom Mosely's name mentioned in the office around that period (Nov 1963). He said when Agent Tom Kelly arrived in Chicago from Dallas on or about 11/26/63, he mentioned a John Heard or Hurt. They searched the office card files for a similar sounding name.
http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...ue/arrb_12.html
Bolden was still curious about John Heard or Hurt as late as 1992. (Was Bolden even aware of the “Raleigh call”?) This is from Bernice Moore’s post in the recent Bolden thread, quoting Palamara’s book:
"Abraham Bolden also stated the following in his letter to Ohio Congressman Louis Stokes, former Chairman of the HSCA..." who is John Heard ? If the name John Heard (Hurt) has not been documented in the files of the Warren Commission then the files of the United States Congress are far from complete regarding the assassination of the President. Less than 24 hrs after the assassination of the President and while Lee Harvey Oswald was still in custody prior to his own assassination by Jack Ruby, all Secret Service offices across the nation were instructed to determine the whereabouts of a John Heard and any name phonetically sounding like Heard whose name was in the Secret Service files. At a time when the nation's attention was focused upon the name Lee Oswald ,the Secret Service was investigating John Heard all across the nation."...
( 1/26/92 Letter to Congressman Stokes provided to the author .This information was provided by Bolden ,regarding John Heard to the HSCA during the agents interview 1/9/78.)"
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6064
Found this information that Ron Ecker has previously provided to me:
Document # 180-10070-10273 Is a 7 page document dated 1/19/78. It is an interview of Secret Service Agent Abraham Bolden by HSCA staffer Jim Kelly and Harold Rese.
The HSCA staffers thought Bolden could provide details on a possible conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy in Chicago on November 2, 1963. . . .
Bolden recalls Tom Mosely's name mentioned in the office around that period (Nov 1963). He said when Agent Tom Kelly arrived in Chicago from Dallas on or about 11/26/63, he mentioned a John Heard or Hurt. They searched the office card files for a similar sounding name.
http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...ue/arrb_12.html
Bolden was still curious about John Heard or Hurt as late as 1992. (Was Bolden even aware of the “Raleigh call”?) This is from Bernice Moore’s post in the recent Bolden thread, quoting Palamara’s book:
"Abraham Bolden also stated the following in his letter to Ohio Congressman Louis Stokes, former Chairman of the HSCA..." who is John Heard ? If the name John Heard (Hurt) has not been documented in the files of the Warren Commission then the files of the United States Congress are far from complete regarding the assassination of the President. Less than 24 hrs after the assassination of the President and while Lee Harvey Oswald was still in custody prior to his own assassination by Jack Ruby, all Secret Service offices across the nation were instructed to determine the whereabouts of a John Heard and any name phonetically sounding like Heard whose name was in the Secret Service files. At a time when the nation's attention was focused upon the name Lee Oswald ,the Secret Service was investigating John Heard all across the nation."...
( 1/26/92 Letter to Congressman Stokes provided to the author .This information was provided by Bolden ,regarding John Heard to the HSCA during the agents interview 1/9/78.)"
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6064
Jim,
Thank you. That was very helpful.
I was particularly interested in this passage:
17: Agent Louis B.Sims: told the HSCA..."...he could not remember dates but that he recalls it could have been any time up to a year prior to the assassination, he was assigned to conduct a surveillance on a subject that was either Puerto Rican or Cuban .He does not remember any specific details other than it involved gun running and it appeared to be a very sensitive investigation. He stated the names Echevarria and Manual Rodriquez were familiar but he couldn't place them..(HSCA 5/22/78 RIF # 180-10093-100221.)
(Emphasis added)..
Steve Thomas
QUOTE(Jim Root @ Apr 10 2008, 05:34 PM)
"Abraham Bolden also stated the following in his letter to Ohio Congressman Louis Stokes, former Chairman of the HSCA..." who is John Heard ? If the name John Heard (Hurt) has not been documented in the files of the Warren Commission then the files of the United States Congress are far from complete regarding the assassination of the President. Less than 24 hrs after the assassination of the President and while Lee Harvey Oswald was still in custody prior to his own assassination by Jack Ruby, all Secret Service offices across the nation were instructed to determine the whereabouts of a John Heard and any name phonetically sounding like Heard whose name was in the Secret Service files. At a time when the nation's attention was focused upon the name Lee Oswald ,the Secret Service was investigating John Heard all across the nation."...
Thank you. That was very helpful.
I was particularly interested in this passage:
17: Agent Louis B.Sims: told the HSCA..."...he could not remember dates but that he recalls it could have been any time up to a year prior to the assassination, he was assigned to conduct a surveillance on a subject that was either Puerto Rican or Cuban .He does not remember any specific details other than it involved gun running and it appeared to be a very sensitive investigation. He stated the names Echevarria and Manual Rodriquez were familiar but he couldn't place them..(HSCA 5/22/78 RIF # 180-10093-100221.)
(Emphasis added)..
Steve Thomas
Thanks, Steve and Jim. It's threads like this one that made we want to join this forum in the first place.
QUOTE(Pat Speer @ Apr 10 2008, 08:27 PM)
Thanks, Steve and Jim. It's threads like this one that made we want to join this forum in the first place.
Years after his very suspect prison term for allegedly being implicated in a counterfeiting scheme,
Abraham Bolden would write Louis Stokes stating, “.......who is John Heard? If the name John Heard [Hurd] has not been documented in the files of the Warren Commission, then the files of the United States Congress are far from complete regarding the assassination of the President. Less than 24 hours after the assassination of the President, and while Lee Harvey Oswald was still in custody prior to his own assassination by Jack Ruby, all Secret Service offices across the nation were instructed to determine the whereabouts of a John Heard and any name phonetically sounding like Heard whose name was in the Secret Service Files. At a time when the nation’s attention was focused on the name Lee Oswald, the Secret Service were investigating John Heard all across the nation.......”
From Survivor’s Guilt Vincent M. Palamara Chapter 17 page 15-16.
It is also significant that both Bolden and Nagell acknowledged the other years later regarding being placed
in a cell next to each other.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2
Additionally, NARA has three JFK Assassination documents that would seem to be pertinent to the above.
1.......180-10109-10264 ABRAHAM BOLDEN CHICAGO WASHINGTON 00/00/0000
2.......180-10075-10028 DOD, FILES; HEARD, JOHN [No Title] MILLER, JUDY, DOD [No To] 03/21/1978
3.......179-30001-10409 SUBJECTS : REVIEW OF RECORDS RE ATF (TREASURY)
Furthermore, in the following document at maryferrell.org Blakey request a namecheck re 5 topics...
# 3 would seem to fit in on this thread.....
LETTER TO CARPENTIER FROM BLAKEY :IN CONNECTION WITH ITS INVESTIGATION/REQUEST FOR FILES ON 5 NAMES..They were
1. NESTOR CASTELLANOS
2. CARL MATHER
3. JOHN DAVID HURT
4. COLLINS RADIO
5. MINUTEMEN ORGANIZATION
The information on Hurt is as follows
JOHN DAVID HURT
DATE OF BIRTH: 05/12/09 PLACE OF BIRTH: River Bend, Colorado Social Security No. 107-05-5407
Served with US Army Counterintelligence Corps in Europe and Japan
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2
Yesterday, I had the first opportunity to peruse Abraham Bolden's book, he mentions this as well.......
Robert
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