I seem to remember seeing a picture or film that had what appeared to be a "yellow" zone or zones painted on the curb on Elm street.That could have been placed there to judge distance for the assassins.Anybody have information on this?

The yellow paint on the curbs around Dallas were in place before JFK was ever elected President. They are supposed to let the driver know that the road turns.

The Z film shows two of the three curb stripes in full length (attached). Mary
Moorman stands by one, Altgens by another. As can be seen in Z, each
yellow stripe had a smaller white stripe at each end.

In later years, the stripes were repainted much longer, causing problems
for researcher who relied on them for comparison with Z film.

Jack

Once again I can`t thank you guys enough for helping me in this matter.I don`t think that you guys/gals realize how much I appreciate it.

Thanks to all who responded (pm`s included)

Respectfully

Michael Crane

Miller has no proof of this. Other researchers looked in vain around Dallas for
other such stripes and could find none. The stripes were unusual in that
they had a small white stripe at each end. We could find only the 3 on the
south curb of Elm. The Elm curve can by no stretch be considered a "dangerous"
curve. We did find some short RED stripes on a curb by the TSBD, which were
NO PARKING ZONES. After the assassination, the stripes seen in Zapruder
were lengthened, which was not discovered for years. The stripes were only
barely visible the last time I looked.

Jack

Not realizing that the stripes had been lengthened, I based several
studies on their length, leading to erroneous conclusions, seen here.
My color panorama shows all three stripes.

Jack

The first time I got an answer about the yellow stripes was from an older cab driver who took me to Dallas from DFW. I then went to Gary Mack to see what he knew about them. Now I see that you claim that there is no proof of what I said other than others looked into the matter and came up empty. Now would those others consist of people who thought that people could have been added to the pedestal in Moorman's photo because they weren't able to find out that Mary's photo was aired on NBC within 3 hours of the shooting ... that the photo was filmed while still in Moorman's possession within the first 35 minutes following the shooting.

And the curbs do not have to be dangerous to have had yellow caution stripes placed on them. I find it pathetic that a cab driver knew the history of the yellow curb stripes around Dallas and you couldn't come up with anything. Maybe he should be researchering the JFK assassination and you driving a cab ... you think!!!

Bill Miller

Are the "Dangerous Curve Stripes" on the curb of Commerce St. in Dealey Plaza?

Don

Other researchers and I could not find them...but that was more than 20 years ago
and my remembrance of it is hazy. As I recall, we found traces of a fourth one on
Elm, close to the underpass, but it was never documented.

Jack

I do not know the answer to that question, Don. One would need to contact the City of Dallas Streets Department. I can tell you that when I contacted Gary Mack to see if he could verify what the 40 year veteran cab driver had told me .. Gary said that a researcher for the Museum had found an old photo(s) of the plaza and the yellow curb stripe(s) were present. The photos pre-dated JFK's election, thus can we assume they were not painted on the curb with JFK's assassination in mind.

It might also be worth noting that the library there in Dallas has lots of city photos covering the history of the town. Signs of yellow curb stripes should be found in their collection, but of course that doesn't mean that you can't merely declare them all altered. (sigh~)

And there is Beverly Oliver's story of stepping in wet yellow paint on 11-22 and ruining her shoes.
Fetzer took a paint sample from her shoe and a paint chip from the curb and had a lab analysis
done. The chemical test was inconclusive, but the hue test matched, with both samples being the
same shade of yellow.

Jack

That`s good stuff right there Jack thank you.I must admit that I have been humbled by the information supplied.I had originally thought that this was an attempt of a timing method employed for the gunmen.

amazing, 6th Floor researchers "find" this material but no one delivers! Could it be the photos are now under the purview of the 6th floor Museum therefore off-limits? You and Gary share an office these day's?

Maybe its because the researchers that you know have an agenda and don't want to find out things that do not support their beliefs. Then their is their selective reading ability that may hinder them ... for instance I think it was mentioned that the library would images of the Plaza ... or maybe even check with the Dallas Historical Society. WOW !!! This taking a moment and giving an ounce of thought to something really works well ... you should try it sometime. Anyway, you have been given a source and you know what they say about giving a man a fish - do that and he only eats for the day, but teach him how to fish and he eats for a lifetime!

Bill Miller

Going thru some files today I found that THE FOURTH YELLOW CURB STRIPE does appear
in Z386, attached.

Jack

Thanks again Jack.

Wouldn`t it be a coincidence if JFK was reacting to being shot just as he passed these zones in the Zapruder frames? Oh well, I found out what I was asking for by the helpful members on the forum.

Thanks again for the help.

All of this was long ago discussed on this forum.

The first shot occurred well prior to the Presidential Vehicle coming abreast of the first yellow mark.

The second shot/aka Z313 impact occurred just after the Presidential limo had passed the first of the various yellow curb marks.
Distance from the first shot to the second shot was some 100 feet, with a time delay in the vicinity of 5.8 to 5.9 seconds.

So! Exactly why did the shooter "wait"? One can only speculate, which would include:

1. Failure to fully eject first expended cartridge shell and "jam", requiring rework of bolt to chamber second round.
2. Target acquisition time through scope.
3. Waiting until target came abreast of known "distance/range" marker/aka yellow mark on curb.
4. ?????

Nevertheless, the third/last/final shot came just as the presidential vehicle came abreast of James Altgens, who also happened to be standing only a few feet from the second yellow curb mark.

Centerline to centerline distance from the first yellow mark (Z313 area) to the second yellow mark (Altgens area) was approximately 45 feet.

Vehicle speed estimated at 10mph = 14.66666 feet per second.
45 feet/14.66666 = 3.07 seconds of elapsed time between center of yellow marks at 10mph speed.

2.3 to 2.4 seconds of elapsed time required to get off a "good" shot with the Carcano, utilizing the scope.


Were the vehicle travelling at a rate of speed of approximately 12mph, then the elapsed time for the vehicle to have travelled from center of yellow stripe to center of yellow stripe would have been approximately 2.56 seconds.

All of which appears to be highly coincidential since the yellow curb marks also make good "range markers" as well as an aid in target acquisition when one has to utilize a scope.

With that stated, it remains as another of those "coincidences" which exceed the bounds of normal consideration.
Especially when one takes into consideration the addiltional yellow curb markings, only 4 bullets total in the Carcano, and the fact that after the third yellow mark, any subsequent shots would have been considerably difficult to achieve.

By the time that the Presidential Limo/aka/JFK/aka the target approached the third yellow mark and the fourth round was chambered, JFK was completely out of sight down in the vehicle and Clint Hill was obstructing any view from the sixth floor window.

In the same frame as Groden's "pyracantha man", I just now noticed
A FIFTH YELLOW CURB STRIPE.

Jack

"All of this was long ago discussed on this forum."

I can assure you Thomas that I did not read the thread or even know about it when I asked this question.But,once again because of some of your research,I find myself having to look into different areas that I have not looked or believed before.All I am saying is that you force me into looking into different theories,and that can be a good thing.

In the same frame as Groden's "pyracantha man", I just now noticed
A FIFTH YELLOW CURB STRIPE.


In that regards, Jack is correct!

This too was long ago discussed.

Originally (years/long ago), and prior to release of the Z-film past the Z334 point which the WC ended it at, I was under the impression that there were only 3 yellow stripes on the curb and that they were all located within the "kill zone".

This was due to the survey work of Mr. West and his survey notes which only included these first three yellow curb marks.

Which, made them highly suspicious considering the relationship of the first two marks with the impact of shots#2 (Z313) & #3 (directly in front of Altgens), and one remaining yellow stripe and one chambered live round found in the rifle.

Nevertheless, others who had reviewed the Z-film correctly established that there were in fact yellow curb marks leading all the way down to that point at which one goes under the RR overpass.

This does not preclude the yellow curb marks (within the kill zone) from actually having been utilized in targeting. However, it would be most unlikely that anyone would take the time and effort (as well as expose themselves during painting) in continuation of the location and number of additional yellow stripes which factually existed past the one which is only a few feet past the James Altgens location.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z357.jpg

Of course, the WC originally determined that there was nothing worthwhile seeing past the Z334 location, which happens to be before James Altgens comes into view in the Z-film as well as prior to establishment of the location of the second yellow curb mark which was directly past his position on Elm St.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z334.jpg

All of which is associated with the phony "Assassination Re-enactment" photo which the WC took as representing Altgens re-creation position for his Z255 shot, as well as on paper, shifting Altgens location on Elm St. to a position which would have placed him between the Moorman/Hill position and the TSDB.

All of which is directly associated with making the THIRD/LAST/FINAL shot impact location directly in front of James Altgens position disappear.

"Yes Virginia, there is a "Magic Bullet"!

However, it is not CE399 as it has not disappeared!