The Education Forum > The Dal-Tex bldg -- speaking of trig....

Don Bailey

Aug 25 2008, 07:55 AM

QUOTE(Mike Williams @ Aug 24 2008, 04:38 AM)

QUOTE(Don Bailey @ Aug 24 2008, 04:41 AM)

Mike,

I'm not good with math so I'll spell it out for you... you have two bullet fragments, a cone missing a base and a base missing a cone, that makes one bullet.

Mr. EISENBERG - Can you determine whether this bullet fragment, 567; and 569 are portions of the originally same bullet?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - You cannot?
Mr. FRAZIER - There is not enough of the two fragments in unmutilated condition to determine whether or not the fragments actually fit together.
However, it was determined that there is no area on one fragment, such as 567, which would overlap a corresponding area on the base section of 569, so that they could be parts of one bullet, and then, of course, they could be parts of separate bullets.

Are you kidding me?? How many bullets fired that day in Dealey Plaza had the base ripped off?

Don

Don,

And I will spell it out for you. Just because we have one nose of a bullet, and one tail of a bullet does not make them automatically from the same bullet. So wheres the proof that they are?

Mike,

The proof is in the WC evidence, if you have 3 bullets fired and one of the recovered bullets (CE399) has a base this leaves two bullets. What are the chances these two bullets ripped apart from the base just above the crimping portion of the bullet? Not likely.

The base and the cone were found in the area of the front seat, common sense will tell you these two fragments are from the same bullet.

Don

Mike Williams

Aug 25 2008, 10:28 AM

QUOTE(Don Bailey @ Aug 25 2008, 02:55 AM)

QUOTE(Mike Williams @ Aug 24 2008, 04:38 AM)

QUOTE(Don Bailey @ Aug 24 2008, 04:41 AM)

Mike,

I'm not good with math so I'll spell it out for you... you have two bullet fragments, a cone missing a base and a base missing a cone, that makes one bullet.

Mr. EISENBERG - Can you determine whether this bullet fragment, 567; and 569 are portions of the originally same bullet?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - You cannot?
Mr. FRAZIER - There is not enough of the two fragments in unmutilated condition to determine whether or not the fragments actually fit together.
However, it was determined that there is no area on one fragment, such as 567, which would overlap a corresponding area on the base section of 569, so that they could be parts of one bullet, and then, of course, they could be parts of separate bullets.

Are you kidding me?? How many bullets fired that day in Dealey Plaza had the base ripped off?

Don

Don,

And I will spell it out for you. Just because we have one nose of a bullet, and one tail of a bullet does not make them automatically from the same bullet. So wheres the proof that they are?

Mike,

The proof is in the WC evidence, if you have 3 bullets fired and one of the recovered bullets (CE399) has a base this leaves two bullets. What are the chances these two bullets ripped apart from the base just above the crimping portion of the bullet? Not likely.

The base and the cone were found in the area of the front seat, common sense will tell you these two fragments are from the same bullet.

Don

No Don common sense would tell you you can not make that assumption.

Still have not read what Frazier had to say I see.

Don Bailey

Sep 3 2008, 05:49 AM

QUOTE

Mr. McCLOY - From your examination of the actual bullets that you have been told were fired on the day of the assassination from this rifle, and from your--how many separate bullets do you identify?
Mr. FRAZIER - Two, at the maximum--possibly three, if these two jacket fragments came from different bullets. If they came from one bullet, then there would be a maximum of the whole bullet 399 and this bullet in two parts.
Mr. McCLOY - And you cannot tell whether these two particles came from one bullet or two separate ones?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - When you say "two at the maximum," do you mean two at the minimum?
Mr. FRAZIER - I meant at least two bullets.
Mr. McCLOY - There were at least two different bullets?
Mr. FRAZIER - At least two, yes.

Frazier did not confirm or deny that the two fragments 567 and 569 were from the same bullet. And since the base (569) and the cone (567) were found in the area of the front seat it seems these two fragments are from the same bullet after striking the chrome trim.

Don

Thomas Graves

Sep 3 2008, 07:33 AM

QUOTE(Don Bailey @ Sep 3 2008, 06:49 AM)

QUOTE

Mr. McCLOY - From your examination of the actual bullets that you have been told were fired on the day of the assassination from this rifle, and from your--how many separate bullets do you identify?
Mr. FRAZIER - Two, at the maximum--possibly three, if these two jacket fragments came from different bullets. If they came from one bullet, then there would be a maximum of the whole bullet 399 and this bullet in two parts.
Mr. McCLOY - And you cannot tell whether these two particles came from one bullet or two separate ones?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - When you say "two at the maximum," do you mean two at the minimum?
Mr. FRAZIER - I meant at least two bullets.
Mr. McCLOY - There were at least two different bullets?
Mr. FRAZIER - At least two, yes.

Frazier did not confirm or deny that the two fragments 567 and 569 were from the same bullet. And since the base (569) and the cone (567) were found in the area of the front seat it seems these two fragments are from the same bullet after striking the chrome trim.

Don

________________________________

Dawn, I mean Don,

Excellent observation. Keep up the good work.

--Thomas

Antti Hynonen

Sep 3 2008, 01:31 PM

QUOTE

Don Bailey Posted Today, 07:49 AM
QUOTE
Mr. McCLOY - From your examination of the actual bullets that you have been told were fired on the day of the assassination from this rifle, and from your--how many separate bullets do you identify?
Mr. FRAZIER - Two, at the maximum--possibly three, if these two jacket fragments came from different bullets. If they came from one bullet, then there would be a maximum of the whole bullet 399 and this bullet in two parts.
Mr. McCLOY - And you cannot tell whether these two particles came from one bullet or two separate ones?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - When you say "two at the maximum," do you mean two at the minimum?
Mr. FRAZIER - I meant at least two bullets.
Mr. McCLOY - There were at least two different bullets?
Mr. FRAZIER - At least two, yes.

Frazier did not confirm or deny that the two fragments 567 and 569 were from the same bullet. And since the base (569) and the cone (567) were found in the area of the front seat it seems these two fragments are from the same bullet after striking the chrome trim.

Don

Don, perhaps the 567 and 569 could help support that in all likelyhood more than 3 bullets were fired. If we take into account that James Tague was hit by a fragment, Connaly was hit by more than one bullet (imo), Kennedy by more than one...... I already can see Tom coming to explain "facts" again. O-oo..