Jim DiEugenio has reviewed A Certain Arrogance, by the late George Michael Evica, and it is available on the CTKA web site.

http://www.ctka.net/2008/certain_arrogance.html

Ron W

Ron thanks for posting... VERY usefull, and I say that as someone who has read the book, and sometimes pretends to understand it! Jim D. is right, the
book can get a bit unweildy especially it you are a between subway stops reader!

That said there is a tremendous amount of value in the book.


It fits in well with so much of the right-left-right play-action I have been reading about lately in CIA communications strategy.


And how could I have forgotten the Albert S U. closed down in the second half of 1964!

This lil' thicket could put a thorn in the paw of even the most nimble Coincidence Theorist, and I found the implication of the need to counter it,
without making it seem an issue -- hence the Who Knew table at Barnes and Noble in which disinformation is angled into a side veign-- right
onwards:


How CIA contact George DeMohrenschildt introduced Oswald to the Paines and the White Russian community of Dallas-Fort Worth. And at one of the very first meetings of Oswald with this group, Lee talked to Volkmar Schmidt for three hours. And according to Schmidt, through Edward Epstein, "Oswald violently attacked President Kennedy's foreign policy ... Schmidt baited Oswald with a negative analysis of right-wing General Edwin A. Walker and an impending American fascism." (p. 237) Why Oswald would want to talk to Schmidt, who was a neo-Nazi fascist, is puzzling. But Schmidt concluded that "Oswald was completely alienated, self-destructive, and suicidal." This vignette encapsules what the Warren Commission would do with Oswald several months later: pin the shooting of Walker and murder of Kennedy on him, and paint him as a sociopath. I suppose it is just a coincidence that, at this time, Schmidt was living with Michael Paine. (ibid)

Yea, thank's for Jim's review, Ron, and I concur with most of what Jimmy D says.

But, I don't think Michael Paine and Volkmar Schmidt ever lived together.

At the time Oswald met Michael Paine, they were attending a party at the home of Everett Glover, who lived with two other Magnolia Oil Company employees, Richard Pierce and possibly Volkmar Schmidet.

There is also a reference, I think wrong, that Norman Fredrickson, whose father worked for Radio Free Europe, lived there, but he was married at the time, and attended the party.

Also in attendance were the DeMohrenschildts, who brought the Oswalds, the Paines, and Betty McDonald, not the stripper, but another employee of Magnolia Labs.

Paine and Schmidt however, did not live together, as far as I can tell from the record, so its not such a coincidence after all.

BK

QUOTE(William Kelly @ Jul 2 2008, 07:38 PM)

QUOTE(Nathaniel Heidenheimer @ Jul 2 2008, 05:46 PM)

Ron thanks for posting... VERY usefull, and I say that as someone who has read the book, and sometimes pretends to understand it! Jim D. is right, the
book can get a bit unweildy especially it you are a between subway stops reader!

That said there is a tremendous amount of value in the book.


It fits in well with so much of the right-left-right play-action I have been reading about lately in CIA communications strategy.


And how could I have forgotten the Albert S U. closed down in the second half of 1964!

This lil' thicket could put a thorn in the paw of even the most nimble Coincidence Theorist, and I found the implication of the need to counter it,
without making it seem an issue -- hence the Who Knew table at Barnes and Noble in which disinformation is angled into a side veign-- right
onwards:


How CIA contact George DeMohrenschildt introduced Oswald to the Paines and the White Russian community of Dallas-Fort Worth. And at one of the very first meetings of Oswald with this group, Lee talked to Volkmar Schmidt for three hours. And according to Schmidt, through Edward Epstein, "Oswald violently attacked President Kennedy's foreign policy ... Schmidt baited Oswald with a negative analysis of right-wing General Edwin A. Walker and an impending American fascism." (p. 237) Why Oswald would want to talk to Schmidt, who was a neo-Nazi fascist, is puzzling. But Schmidt concluded that "Oswald was completely alienated, self-destructive, and suicidal." This vignette encapsules what the Warren Commission would do with Oswald several months later: pin the shooting of Walker and murder of Kennedy on him, and paint him as a sociopath. I suppose it is just a coincidence that, at this time, Schmidt was living with Michael Paine. (ibid)

Yea, thank's for Jim's review, Ron, and I concur with most of what Jimmy D says.

But, I don't think Michael Paine and Volkmar Schmidt ever lived together.

At the time Oswald met Michael Paine, they were attending a party at the home of Everett Glover, who lived with two other Magnolia Oil Company employees, Richard Pierce and possibly Volkmar Schmidet.

There is also a reference, I think wrong, that Norman Fredrickson, whose father worked for Radio Free Europe, lived there, but he was married at the time, and attended the party.

Also in attendance were the DeMohrenschildts, who brought the Oswalds, the Paines, and Betty McDonald, not the stripper, but another employee of Magnolia Labs.

Paine and Schmidt however, did not live together, as far as I can tell from the record, so its not such a coincidence after all.

BK

The quote below is from Jim DiEugenio, who asked me to post this response:


"The information about Schmidt living with Michael Paine is listed in Evica's book on page 237. Evica sources it to authors Edward Epstein and Priscilla Johnson. If there is a question it should be checked against those books."

I must have missed the Epstein and PJM references because I would have asked Schmidt about Michael Paine living with him when I talked with Schmidt.

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2008/01...-interview.html

The point being, not so much whether MP lived with Schmidt, but exactly how Oswald came to meet Michael Paine.

If James Douglas is correct in his analysis that the Oswald's were "handed over" to the Paines like a "football," then how they came to meet cuts to the chase.

Will check the GME reference when I find the book, burried around here somewhere.

BK

At the risk of sounding egotistical, it's a fact that both GME and myself were simultaneously, but independently (and for the most part, unknowingly) researching exactly the same unchartered corners of this case.

The main difference was that whereas I was posting the results of my research to forums such as this, GME was keeping his under wraps for his book.

I know from emails I received from George Michael, the areas where my research was outstripping his, but I had to wait for his book to come out to see the sheer volume, depth and value of his own work.

GME, I believe, would have been the first to admit that he benefited in whatever small way from the ready and easy access to my research he had, and I sincerely hope this underlying principle is borne in mind with regard to the ultimate disposition of his papers.

Greg,

I can assure you that both Alycia Evica and I are committed to maintaining George Michael's own commitments to intellectual honesty and academic integrity.

The process of cataloging and storing his archives is ongoing, and the community of which he was -- and, I submit, remains -- a proud and generous member will enjoy access to that work sooner rather than later.

For the record, George Michael spoke to me once of your endeavors. It was toward the end, but during a period of absolute lucidity. He described your research as "valuable" and "moving down the same dark roads" as much of his own.

I hope this brief message is of some value to you.

Best,

Charles

I also read A Certain Arrogancer, right after it was published. I did enjoy reading it, since it got into some areas of my own interest. I also agree it was not an easy read....I mean it was a lot to take in. I decided that I would want to re-read it again, which I am just about ready to do so again. After I read it though, I was wanting to know more and hoped someone would continue to pursue the research.


I was also aware of Greg's previous work in this area and also enjoyed his work and would like to read more of it. I don't know if Greg remembers or not, but he and snother person and I had an exchange about the Albert Schweitzer College, on another forum, several years ago. Both had researched it much more then I had, but I believe I did offer a few things...like some former ASC students plus some former Instructors and their credentials. But I did enjoy the discussion very much and did learn quite a bit. I may still even have the posts we all had back and forth.


Some time ago, I mentioned this on here, in a post to Charles Drago.... I made a discovery after reading A Certain Arrigance, that I have still been checking out, off and on. A lot of it has to do with only my own suspicions though, so it might not pan out as I am suspecting. There is some info regarding C D Jackson, in Evica's book, and I discovered that he was involved some, in the interracial couple, Barney and Betty Hill's Alien Abduction claims. It was at a several hours meeting with this couple, as well as a couple of other guys..one from MIlitary Intelligence, who was supposedly a friend of the Hills. that the suggestion was planted for the Hills to be hypnotized. It has been thought that perhaps the Hills had so-called repressed memories planted through hypnosis. Jackson, was around the Dulles era of faciism, Project Paper Clip and flying machines and Eugenics and mind control etc.


As for that party at Everett Glovers place, Glover was not there and neither was Michael Paine. Ruth claimed that she and Michael sang Madrigal songs in a group, with Evererrt Glover and he thought she might enjoy meeting the Oswalds because of her Russian interests. Some raason he or Michael neither one, wera able to be there though. Michael did finally meet the Oswalds when Ruth invited them to her place for dinner and MIchael picked themn up at their apartment and drove them there for the evening.


I do not think that Schmidt and Michael Paine were roommates, but Schmidt was a roommate of Everett Glover.

______________
Dixie

Thanks Charles and Dixie.

Despite how it may have looked, I wasn't fishing for compliments - though an ulterior - and somewhat selfish - motive certainly existed.

Simply put, I'd like access to GME's papers. Nothing Charles has said in the past or now gives me any confidence I will have it.

Cool.

Dixie, I do recall exchanges with you, but not the specifics of any of them. I blame coming to fatherhood a little late in life for the memory hole that now exists between my ears. braincells.

I do return to these areas occasionally, and there is more to be told about the ASC, Hans Casparis, Thornley, the Unitarian Church, the Paines and Percival Brundage... but at the moment, it's a loose collection of loose connections.

For instance, folk dancing was a major love of both the Paines and Percival Brundage. Did they by chance, meet at folk dance festivals? I dare say, there were not that many held annually across the country... and the NO GJ certainly had its suspicions about the one the Paines attended in San Antonio during April '63- grilling RP closely about it (while assuring her they were not grilling!). I did find it very odd that she seemed unsure at first if she took the kids on this trip and who by and where they were looked after - finally deciding they had arranged a baby sitter in San Antonio upon arrival.

Thornley is probably the easiest to pin down - though the evidence is only circumstantial, I am certain his attendance at Frichman's Unitarian church was not innocent. I'll get around to explaining that when I get the other stuff sorted.

As for Casparis... have found traces connecting him to CIA (beyond any reported in ACA) . Also have proof he was in California Jul - Aug '58 In what may have been an annual event lecturing on "European Liberalism". If he could be placed there again the following year...it could be very significant.

Greg,

George Michael's papers ultimately will reside in a fully accessible archive.

Beyond this simple declaration of fact, there is little I am able to add at this time.

Your confidence in the ability and willingness of the papers' custodians to follow through on George Michael's wishes is beyond my control and none of my concern.

Charles

Yea, Greg,

I wouldn't hold my breath before GME's unpublished papers are made available to you.

I don't think you really need them. While you proved me wrong in that GME did track down and interview witnesses, especially those involved in AS College, I still maintain that most of his work was taken from previously published books.

George Michael was pretty arrogant himself at times.

I think that he could have used your work more than you can use his.

BK

Not so good for you, Bill.

You may "maintain" that "most" of George Michael's work was "taken from previously published books." But you have not, and in fact cannot demonstrate the validity of such a claim and its implicit charge of plagiarism.

If I'm wrong, prove me wrong. If you're wrong, demonstrate Evica-like levels of courage and honor and say so.

As is the case with Greg, your mere beliefs concerning the value and integrity of my friend and his work are, to quote one of our favorite authors, "of as little account as sparrows' tears."

And We are All Mortal and A Certain Arrogance, along with the remainder of George Michael's oeuvre, stand on their own merits. Those merits are immense -- and not just in comparison to the work of those who would diminish them.

I may be wrong, Bill, but I have reason to suspect that your animadversions concerning George Michael and all he contributed to the search for truth and justic may stem from his less-than-cordial relations with COPA leaders and his affiliations with JFK Lancer.

Forgive me if I'm off-base here; it's just that I'm hard-pressed to account for such wrong-headed hostility emenating from a gentleman and scholar for whom I continue to hold affection and respect.

As for Greg's work: We'll just have to reserve judgment until his first book is published.

Charles

Charles,

As I noted, Greg already proved me wrong when he contacted a witness from Albert Schwitzer College, who had already been interviewed by GME. Greg corrected me when I said the same thing to him.

I don't think Greg's intentions are to publish a book. He is a researchers who is at the leading edge of the most significant lines of inquiry, and he wants to solve the case before it becomes history.

And We Are All Mortal is one of the best books on the assassination and despite GME's sometimes awkward writing style, it is well documented, sourced and the state of the case at the time it was published.

A Certain Arrogance is one of those books that tip toes around the fringes of some very important aspects of the case, and I am very disapointed that GME won't be around when we dance at the bottom of it.

GME's vision of COPA did conflict with mine, - a DC based organization that routinely interacts with Congress and the NARA, while he wanted an academic org based at his college.

As for LANCER vs COPA, I don't seem to have any problems sharing research with Larry or even Debra, but with GME, even though we were running down the same leads, he'd take a lot in but not give back. Wait for the book.

Okay, we've got the book.

And now we're taking it a lot further. Sorry he's not here to appreciate it.

BK

Bill,

I respect the honest manner in which you describe your experiences and feelings related to George Michael.

My own informed take on the manner in which G.M. chose to share information conflicts with your own. I am not apologizing for his methods when I state that they were well reasoned and necessary.

I might add that scores and scores of his students and colleagues will attest to the selfless manners in which he shared his thoughts and the works they generted.

I won't ask to learn more of your work related to ASC; rather, I'll wait until you're ready to publish as I anticipate important additions to the efforts to effect justice.

Be well,

Charles

George Michael was a very kind man. I am better for having known him.

Jack

Dear Jack,

George Michael counseled me to seek you out in times of need -- especially when the need was for a trustworthy ally.

I'm aware of the personal kindnesses he extended to you; they were typical of what flowed from that noble heart.

On behalf of his family, I thank you for your brief, simple, and eloquent testimonial.

Respectfully,

Charles

Charles,

You are indeed, a gifted writer. Perhaps I should have said no easy access. That is within your control, but also none of my concern.

Which is why I said "cool".

I have no wish to be collateral damage, caught in the exchanges between you and Bill. You both outgun me as wordsmiths.

But for the sake of all cards being laid out:

I did indeed, defend GME privately, and would do the same publicly. I know at least a little about what lengths he took to write his book.

But the fact is, he did use some of my material from this forum. That's more than fine with me. I have stated a number of times why I post my research is in the hope that others will pick it up and run with it. GME did, as have others. What does concern me is that he did not cite me as the source. That's nothing to do with ego - readers need to know the correct sources so that they can be properly evaluated. When an attempt was made to bring this to his attention, he added (what was to me, an embarrassingly glowing) mention of my work, but fell short of actually naming it is a source.

Bill,

I appreciate greatly your faith in what I do.

The reason I wanted access to GME's papers is simply that I'm confident they will contain leads that were not followed for whatever reason, or simply missed. Hopefully those who get the chance to go through it all will pick those up.

Greg,

Like George Michael, I respect your work and otherwise acknowledge its significance to our shared struggles for truth and justice.

My issues with Bill relate to what I read as his unfair, inaccurate characterizations of ACA in particular and the larger Evica oeuvre in general.

Bill and I have exchanged PMs, and I think it is safe to say that we've reached a peaceful accord.

I reserve the right to speak for George Michael when what I know to be unfair assessments of his work are published here or anywhere else. The fact that I know Bill to be one of the good guys and, in many ways, a kindred spirit does not relieve me of my duty to my friend, mentor, and comrade.

As far as your own interests are concerned, all I can do is give my assurance yet again that, in due course, you and all other researchers will have access to the Evica archives.

I might add that you have no way whatsoever of knowing what is or is not "within my control" vis a vis George Michael's holdings.

Sincerely,

Charles

In his review of GME's A Certain Arrogance


Jim D wrote: He makes other good points, like the exquisite timing of the separation of Ruth and Michael Paine, which made it so convenient for Marina to move in with Ruth before the assassination. How CIA contact George DeMohrenschildt introduced Oswald to the Paines and the White Russian community of Dallas-Fort Worth. And at one of the very first meetings of Oswald with this group, Lee talked to Volkmar Schmidt for three hours. And according to Schmidt, through Edward Epstein, "Oswald violently attacked President Kennedy's foreign policy ... Schmidt baited Oswald with a negative analysis of right-wing General Edwin A. Walker and an impending American fascism." (p. 237) Why Oswald would want to talk to Schmidt, who was a neo-Nazi fascist, is puzzling. But Schmidt concluded that "Oswald was completely alienated, self-destructive, and suicidal." This vignette encapsules what the Warren Commission would do with Oswald several months later: pin the shooting of Walker and murder of Kennedy on him, and paint him as a sociopath. I suppose it is just a coincidence that, at this time, Schmidt was living with Michael Paine. (ibid)

In JFK and the Unspeakable, JD writes, "As Kennedy was trying to save Diem's life while going along with a coup that would take it, Lee Harvey Oswald was gaining employment at the Texas School Book Depository in Dallas. He got the job that would place him strategically right over the president's parade route through the intercession of Marina Oswald's friend Ruth Paine, a housewife with connections.

It was through CIA asset George de Mohrenschildt that Ruth Paine met Lee and Marina Oswald. When Warren Commission lawyer Wesley Liebeler asked Ruth Paine if Marina Oswald had ever mentioned George de Mohrenschildt to her, Paine answered, "Well, that's how I met her."

She said her meeting with Marina occurred at a February 1963 party in Dallas. 192 DeMohrenschildt had helped arrange the party, which took place at the home of a friend. 193

Ruth Paine attended it especially to meet Marina. As a student of the Russian language, Ruth wanted to meet somebody with whom she could practice. 194 DeMohrenschildt told the Warren Commission, "I noticed immediately that there was another nice relationship developed there between Mrs. Paine and Marina." 197 Ruth followed up her introductions to the Oswalds by letters, phone calls, and visits to Marina in particular.

In late April, Ruth convinced Marina to move into Ruth's house in Irving, a suburb of Dallas, for two weeks, while Lee went ahead "to look for work" in New Orleans the context where he would be sheep-dipped by U.S. intelligence that summer as a follower of Fidel Castro. Marina's living with Ruth Paine would become a more permanent arrangement in the fall. It was supported from the beginning by Ruth's husband, Michael Paine, then separated from Ruth and their two young children living in his own apartment. When Lee Oswald said he was settled in New Orleans, Ruth with her children drove Marina and her fourteen-month-old daughter June down to New Orleans, again with the encouragement and financial support of Michael Paine.

By the time George de Mohrenschildt dropped out of Oswalds' lives in April 1963, Ruth and her husband, Michael Paine, had taken de Mohrenschildt's place as Marina's and Lee's Dallas sponsors. De Mohrenschildt's sponsorship was sanctioned by the CIA. Three hours before his death in 1977 in Florida by an apparently self-inflicted shotgun blast, George de Mohrenschildt revealed in an interview that he befriended Lee Harvey Owald at the encouragement of Dallas CIA agent J. Walton Moore, with whom he had been meeting regularly for yeras. 198 In return for his sheepherding of Oswald, de Mohrenschildt asked for and receieved a discreetly facilited $285,000 contract with dictator "Papa Doc" Duvalier to do a geological survey of Haiti. De Mohrenschildt did no geoogical survey in Haiti, but still deposited over $200,000 in his bank account. 200 When de Mohrenschildt left Dallas in April for Haiti (stopping off in Washington, D.C. for a meeting with CIA and Army Intelligence officials), 201 Ruth and Michael Paine stepped into his place as the Oswalds' Dallas benefactors.

It was de Mohrenschildt who had handed off the Oswalds to the Paines like a football in a reverse end run. When the Dallas play-action began, the Oswalds were being carried by a prominent White Russian anti-communist. As de Mohrenschildt with CIA assistance left the Dallas action for Haiti, the Oswalds were suddenly in the hands of a Quaker-Unitarian couple who belonged to the ACLU. If it was in fact a handoff, one trick play in a larger game plan, its sleight of hand was so successful that when the game was over, hardly anyone even rememberedf this one critical play.

(p.168-169, JD, JFK&TU)


The "Coincidence Theory" of the JFK Assassination presuposes the coincidental nature of how the Oswalds met the Paines, how Oswald relocated to Magazine St. in New Orleans from Dallas, and how Oswald got the job at the TSBD.

If these three "critical plays," as James Douglas puts it, were not coincidences, they were certainly made to appear that way.

And if not coincidence, how were they conspiratorial?

And thank you GME, Jim D and James Douglas for the directions, but we're not quite there, yet.

BK

Greg was having trouble posting this link to his excellent site and most recent article:


http://reopenjfkcase.dockearth.com/index.p...=com_agora&
Grand Tours



xxxx

By the time George de Mohrenschildt dropped
out of Oswalds' lives in April 1963, Ruth and her
husband, Michael Paine, had taken de Mohrenschildt's
place as Marina's and Lee's Dallas sponsors.
De Mohrenschildt's sponsorship was sanctioned
by the CIA.

Above quote from JFK and the Unspeakable by James W Douglass


April, 1963:
Pot shot at Walker - probably staged.

DeM has briefings in Washington with intel types before going to Haiti ostensibly for geological survey

Paine's - though separated - go to San Antonio for a Folk Dance Festival - 4 years later, Ruth Paine would have trouble recalling if her kids went on this trip and how they were looked after. Also possibly there - former Budget Director and president of the Friends of Albert Schweitzer College, Percival Brundage. Brundage had been busy in the preceding couple of years setting up CIA proprieties for Cuban ops.

Oswald goes to live in New Orleans.
_____________________________________

July, August 1963:
Ruth Paine begins her tour of the east.

Ruth Paine makes inquiries with her former Russian tutor about Marina getting work in Philadelphia. This makes little sense as RP knew Marina was pregnant. Former tutor only declines to assist because of Marina's lack of English.

______________________________________

September, 1963:
Ruth Paine arrives in NO to take Marina back to Dallas for birth of child.

Oswald tells both he is going to either Philadelphia or Houston to look for work and if fails, he will return to Dallas.

Oswald tells Kloepfer girls (who were visiting along with their mother at the request of RP) he is going to Washington or someplace east on "important" business. Also tells them he will buy a gun there.

Oswald allegedly goes to Mexico City.

______________________________________

1963-65
New Left being formed in New York. One of the leaders, Phillip Luce, had helped organize the student trips to Cuba.

The New Left was mainly comprised of CPUSA exiles. Luce was with the Communist Party Marxist-Leninists.

This is the type of group Oswald expressed concern about in CE 97: "The Communist Party of the United States has betrayed itself! It has turned itself into the traditional lever of a foreign power to overthrow the government of the United States, not in the name of freedom or high ideals... there can be no sympathy for those who have turned the idea of communism into a vile curse to Western Man..."

One of the leaders of the CPML was quoted in the New York World Telegram (pre 22/11/63) as stating: "We'd assassinate the President if it suited our ends. Don't think we couldn't do it."

The twist is that Luce was very likely a government plant. During 1963/64, he was stockpiling weapons in New York... which I believe is not exactly in the west... but more in the direct Oswald was supposed to be heading - and heading according to one source to buy a gun (which seems to suggest he did not already own any). By '65, Luce had shed his sheep's clothing and emerged as a fledging neocon.
___________________________________

Was Ruth Paine really looking for a job in Philadelphia for a pregnant Marina during July/August? Is it yet another coincidence that Oswald is alleged to have told Ruth in Sept he was going to look for work in Philly (or some place east)?
___________________________________

And when was it Michael visited that other "mutant" - his natural father, George Lyman Paine?
___________________________________

Associations between members of Michael's family and at least one Unitarian closely associated with the Albert Schweitzer College (Dana Greeley) go back generations... (refer to Dana Greeley papers held at Harvard for Albert Schweitzer College connections. Contains correspondence with Robert Schacht who took US applications for the college, Brundage - president of the friends of the college - and letters to and from the college itself).

Itemid=59&task=viewtopic&id=14://http://reopenjfkcase.dockearth.com/...topic&id=14

Thanks for posting this, Bill. Don't know why it would not "take" for me before, but the problems seems to have gone.

Re Ruth asking about work for Marina in Philly prior to Oswald ever mentioning Philly as a possible destination: From the group of interviews conducted with people Ruth Paine visited on her eastern pilgrimage:

"Mrs Rainey stated she recalled that Ruth Paine inquired about obtaining a job in the Philadelphia area for Mrs Oswald but due to Mrs Oswald's inability to speak English, nothing was done..."

Re: suspicion surrounding the Folk Dance Camp in San Antonio: From RP's GJ testimony:

Q: What do you recall of the trip you made to San Antonio on April 26, 1963, you went with Michael on that too, didn't you? What was going on there?
A: That was the folk dance, a gathering of people to get together and do folk dancing for a weekend.

Q: Was that all that happened in San Antonio, a folk dance festival?
A: That's all I went for and that's all I know about.

Q: Do you know if anything else was going on?
A: Not to my knowledge.

and more later...

Q: Did anyone go with you and Michael to San Antonio?
A: I Can't imagine that the kids didn't, but I can't imagine what kind of arrangement we made for them.

Q: Can any adults gone with you to San Antonio?
A: If so, it was a baby sitter. But no, we got a baby sitter there, I remember there.

Usually, witnesses are not subject to fishing expeditions, so it seems likely that Garrison thought something other dancing was causing people to get up close in small groups that weekend. The next series of questions does indicate at a minimum that it was believed Oswald went on that trip with the Paines.