Interesting article by Ashley Seager
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jul...development.usa
Despite spending $230m (£115m) an hour on healthcare, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of almost every other developed country. And while it has the second-highest income per head in the world, the United States ranks 42nd in terms of life expectancy.
These are some of the startling conclusions from a major new report which attempts to explain why the world's number-one economy has slipped to 12th place - from 2nd in 1990- in terms of human development.
The American Human Development Report, which applies rankings of health, education and income to the US, paints a surprising picture of a country that spends well over $5bn each day on healthcare - more per person than any other country.
The report, Measure of America, was funded by Oxfam America, the Conrad Hilton Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation. It shows each of the 11 countries that rank higher than the US in human development has a lower per-capita income.
Those countries score better on the health and knowledge indices that make up the overall human development index (HDI), which is calculated each year by the United Nations Development Programme.
And each has achieved better outcomes in areas such as infant mortality and longevity, with less spending per head.
Japanese, for example, can expect to outlive Americans, on average, by more than four years. In fact, citizens of Israel, Greece, Singapore, Costa Rica, South Korea and every western European and Nordic country save one can expect to live longer than Americans.
There are also wider differences, the report shows. The average Asian woman, for example, lives for almost 89 years, while African-American women live until 76. For men of the same groups, the difference is 14 years.
One of the main problems faced by the US, says the report, is that one in six Americans, or about 47 million people, are not covered by health insurance and so have limited access to healthcare.
As a result, the US is ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in terms of infants surviving to age one. The US infant mortality rate is on a par with that of Croatia, Cuba, Estonia and Poland. If the US could match top-ranked Sweden, about 20,000 more American babies a year would live to their first birthday.
"Human development is concerned with what I take to be the basic development idea: namely, advancing the richness of human life, rather than the richness of the economy in which human beings live, which is only a part of it," said the Nobel laureate economist Amartya Sen, who developed the HDI in 1990.
"We get in this report ... an evaluation of what the limitations of human development are in the US but also ... how the relative place of America has been slipping in comparison with other countries over recent years."
The US has a higher percentage of children living in poverty than any of the world's richest countries.
In fact, the report shows that 15% of American children - 10.7 million - live in families with incomes of less than $1,500 per month.
It also reveals 14% of the population - some 40 million Americans - lack the literacy skills to perform simple, everyday tasks such as understanding newspaper articles and instruction manuals.
And while in much of Europe, Canada, Japan and Russia, levels of enrolment of three and four-year-olds in pre-school are running at about 75%, in the US it is little more than 50%.
The report not only highlights the differences between the US and other countries, it also picks up on the huge discrepancies between states, the country's 436 congressional districts and between ethnic groups.
"The Measure of America reveals huge gaps among some groups in our country to access opportunity and reach their potential," said the report's co-author, Sarah Burd-Sharps. "Some Americans are living anywhere from 30 to 50 years behind others when it comes to issues we all care about: health, education and standard of living.
"For example, the state human development index shows that people in last-ranked Mississippi are living 30 years behind those in first-ranked Connecticut."
Inequality remains stark. The richest fifth of Americans earn on average $168,170 a year, almost 15 times the average of the lowest fifth, who make do with $11,352.
The US is far behind many other countries in the support given to working families, particularly in terms of family leave, sick leave and childcare. The country has no federally mandated maternity leave.
The US also ranks first among the 30 rich countries of the Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development in terms of the number of people in prison, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of the total population.
It has 5% of the world's people but 24% of its prisoners.
Full Version: Economics - Human Index
QUOTE(John Simkin @ Jul 28 2008, 10:59 AM) 
Interesting article by Ashley Seager
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jul...development.usa
Despite spending $230m (£115m) an hour on healthcare, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of almost every other developed country. And while it has the second-highest income per head in the world, the United States ranks 42nd in terms of life expectancy.
These are some of the startling conclusions from a major new report which attempts to explain why the world's number-one economy has slipped to 12th place - from 2nd in 1990- in terms of human development.
The American Human Development Report, which applies rankings of health, education and income to the US, paints a surprising picture of a country that spends well over $5bn each day on healthcare - more per person than any other country.
The report, Measure of America, was funded by Oxfam America, the Conrad Hilton Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation. It shows each of the 11 countries that rank higher than the US in human development has a lower per-capita income.
Those countries score better on the health and knowledge indices that make up the overall human development index (HDI), which is calculated each year by the United Nations Development Programme.
And each has achieved better outcomes in areas such as infant mortality and longevity, with less spending per head.
Japanese, for example, can expect to outlive Americans, on average, by more than four years. In fact, citizens of Israel, Greece, Singapore, Costa Rica, South Korea and every western European and Nordic country save one can expect to live longer than Americans.
There are also wider differences, the report shows. The average Asian woman, for example, lives for almost 89 years, while African-American women live until 76. For men of the same groups, the difference is 14 years.
One of the main problems faced by the US, says the report, is that one in six Americans, or about 47 million people, are not covered by health insurance and so have limited access to healthcare.
As a result, the US is ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in terms of infants surviving to age one. The US infant mortality rate is on a par with that of Croatia, Cuba, Estonia and Poland. If the US could match top-ranked Sweden, about 20,000 more American babies a year would live to their first birthday.
"Human development is concerned with what I take to be the basic development idea: namely, advancing the richness of human life, rather than the richness of the economy in which human beings live, which is only a part of it," said the Nobel laureate economist Amartya Sen, who developed the HDI in 1990.
"We get in this report ... an evaluation of what the limitations of human development are in the US but also ... how the relative place of America has been slipping in comparison with other countries over recent years."
The US has a higher percentage of children living in poverty than any of the world's richest countries.
In fact, the report shows that 15% of American children - 10.7 million - live in families with incomes of less than $1,500 per month.
It also reveals 14% of the population - some 40 million Americans - lack the literacy skills to perform simple, everyday tasks such as understanding newspaper articles and instruction manuals.
And while in much of Europe, Canada, Japan and Russia, levels of enrolment of three and four-year-olds in pre-school are running at about 75%, in the US it is little more than 50%.
The report not only highlights the differences between the US and other countries, it also picks up on the huge discrepancies between states, the country's 436 congressional districts and between ethnic groups.
"The Measure of America reveals huge gaps among some groups in our country to access opportunity and reach their potential," said the report's co-author, Sarah Burd-Sharps. "Some Americans are living anywhere from 30 to 50 years behind others when it comes to issues we all care about: health, education and standard of living.
"For example, the state human development index shows that people in last-ranked Mississippi are living 30 years behind those in first-ranked Connecticut."
Inequality remains stark. The richest fifth of Americans earn on average $168,170 a year, almost 15 times the average of the lowest fifth, who make do with $11,352.
The US is far behind many other countries in the support given to working families, particularly in terms of family leave, sick leave and childcare. The country has no federally mandated maternity leave.
The US also ranks first among the 30 rich countries of the Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development in terms of the number of people in prison, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of the total population.
It has 5% of the world's people but 24% of its prisoners.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jul...development.usa
Despite spending $230m (£115m) an hour on healthcare, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of almost every other developed country. And while it has the second-highest income per head in the world, the United States ranks 42nd in terms of life expectancy.
These are some of the startling conclusions from a major new report which attempts to explain why the world's number-one economy has slipped to 12th place - from 2nd in 1990- in terms of human development.
The American Human Development Report, which applies rankings of health, education and income to the US, paints a surprising picture of a country that spends well over $5bn each day on healthcare - more per person than any other country.
The report, Measure of America, was funded by Oxfam America, the Conrad Hilton Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation. It shows each of the 11 countries that rank higher than the US in human development has a lower per-capita income.
Those countries score better on the health and knowledge indices that make up the overall human development index (HDI), which is calculated each year by the United Nations Development Programme.
And each has achieved better outcomes in areas such as infant mortality and longevity, with less spending per head.
Japanese, for example, can expect to outlive Americans, on average, by more than four years. In fact, citizens of Israel, Greece, Singapore, Costa Rica, South Korea and every western European and Nordic country save one can expect to live longer than Americans.
There are also wider differences, the report shows. The average Asian woman, for example, lives for almost 89 years, while African-American women live until 76. For men of the same groups, the difference is 14 years.
One of the main problems faced by the US, says the report, is that one in six Americans, or about 47 million people, are not covered by health insurance and so have limited access to healthcare.
As a result, the US is ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in terms of infants surviving to age one. The US infant mortality rate is on a par with that of Croatia, Cuba, Estonia and Poland. If the US could match top-ranked Sweden, about 20,000 more American babies a year would live to their first birthday.
"Human development is concerned with what I take to be the basic development idea: namely, advancing the richness of human life, rather than the richness of the economy in which human beings live, which is only a part of it," said the Nobel laureate economist Amartya Sen, who developed the HDI in 1990.
"We get in this report ... an evaluation of what the limitations of human development are in the US but also ... how the relative place of America has been slipping in comparison with other countries over recent years."
The US has a higher percentage of children living in poverty than any of the world's richest countries.
In fact, the report shows that 15% of American children - 10.7 million - live in families with incomes of less than $1,500 per month.
It also reveals 14% of the population - some 40 million Americans - lack the literacy skills to perform simple, everyday tasks such as understanding newspaper articles and instruction manuals.
And while in much of Europe, Canada, Japan and Russia, levels of enrolment of three and four-year-olds in pre-school are running at about 75%, in the US it is little more than 50%.
The report not only highlights the differences between the US and other countries, it also picks up on the huge discrepancies between states, the country's 436 congressional districts and between ethnic groups.
"The Measure of America reveals huge gaps among some groups in our country to access opportunity and reach their potential," said the report's co-author, Sarah Burd-Sharps. "Some Americans are living anywhere from 30 to 50 years behind others when it comes to issues we all care about: health, education and standard of living.
"For example, the state human development index shows that people in last-ranked Mississippi are living 30 years behind those in first-ranked Connecticut."
Inequality remains stark. The richest fifth of Americans earn on average $168,170 a year, almost 15 times the average of the lowest fifth, who make do with $11,352.
The US is far behind many other countries in the support given to working families, particularly in terms of family leave, sick leave and childcare. The country has no federally mandated maternity leave.
The US also ranks first among the 30 rich countries of the Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development in terms of the number of people in prison, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of the total population.
It has 5% of the world's people but 24% of its prisoners.
Ah yes, America sucks, thats why so may risk death to get here....and then become a veryu large part of the problems listed above.
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul , 12:14 PM)
QUOTE(John Simkin @ Jul , 10:59 AM)
Interesting article by Ashley Seager
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jul...development.usa
Despite spending $230m (£115m) an hour on healthcare, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of almost every other developed country. And while it has the second-highest income per head in the world, the United States ranks 42nd in terms of life expectancy.
These are some of the startling conclusions from a major new report which attempts to explain why the world's number-one economy has slipped to 12th place - from 2nd in 1990- in terms of human development.
The American Human Development Report, which applies rankings of health, education and income to the US, paints a surprising picture of a country that spends well over $5bn each day on healthcare - more per person than any other country.
The report, Measure of America, was funded by Oxfam America, the Conrad Hilton Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation. It shows each of the 11 countries that rank higher than the US in human development has a lower per-capita income.
Those countries score better on the health and knowledge indices that make up the overall human development index (HDI), which is calculated each year by the United Nations Development Programme.
And each has achieved better outcomes in areas such as infant mortality and longevity, with less spending per head.
Japanese, for example, can expect to outlive Americans, on average, by more than four years. In fact, citizens of Israel, Greece, Singapore, Costa Rica, South Korea and every western European and Nordic country save one can expect to live longer than Americans.
There are also wider differences, the report shows. The average Asian woman, for example, lives for almost 89 years, while African-American women live until 76. For men of the same groups, the difference is 14 years.
One of the main problems faced by the US, says the report, is that one in six Americans, or about 47 million people, are not covered by health insurance and so have limited access to healthcare.
As a result, the US is ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in terms of infants surviving to age one. The US infant mortality rate is on a par with that of Croatia, Cuba, Estonia and Poland. If the US could match top-ranked Sweden, about 20,000 more American babies a year would live to their first birthday.
"Human development is concerned with what I take to be the basic development idea: namely, advancing the richness of human life, rather than the richness of the economy in which human beings live, which is only a part of it," said the Nobel laureate economist Amartya Sen, who developed the HDI in 1990.
"We get in this report ... an evaluation of what the limitations of human development are in the US but also ... how the relative place of America has been slipping in comparison with other countries over recent years."
The US has a higher percentage of children living in poverty than any of the world's richest countries.
In fact, the report shows that 15% of American children - 10.7 million - live in families with incomes of less than $1,500 per month.
It also reveals 14% of the population - some 40 million Americans - lack the literacy skills to perform simple, everyday tasks such as understanding newspaper articles and instruction manuals.
And while in much of Europe, Canada, Japan and Russia, levels of enrolment of three and four-year-olds in pre-school are running at about 75%, in the US it is little more than 50%.
The report not only highlights the differences between the US and other countries, it also picks up on the huge discrepancies between states, the country's 436 congressional districts and between ethnic groups.
"The Measure of America reveals huge gaps among some groups in our country to access opportunity and reach their potential," said the report's co-author, Sarah Burd-Sharps. "Some Americans are living anywhere from 30 to 50 years behind others when it comes to issues we all care about: health, education and standard of living.
"For example, the state human development index shows that people in last-ranked Mississippi are living 30 years behind those in first-ranked Connecticut."
Inequality remains stark. The richest fifth of Americans earn on average $168,170 a year, almost 15 times the average of the lowest fifth, who make do with $11,352.
The US is far behind many other countries in the support given to working families, particularly in terms of family leave, sick leave and childcare. The country has no federally mandated maternity leave.
The US also ranks first among the 30 rich countries of the Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development in terms of the number of people in prison, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of the total population.
It has 5% of the world's people but 24% of its prisoners.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jul...development.usa
Despite spending $230m (£115m) an hour on healthcare, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of almost every other developed country. And while it has the second-highest income per head in the world, the United States ranks 42nd in terms of life expectancy.
These are some of the startling conclusions from a major new report which attempts to explain why the world's number-one economy has slipped to 12th place - from 2nd in 1990- in terms of human development.
The American Human Development Report, which applies rankings of health, education and income to the US, paints a surprising picture of a country that spends well over $5bn each day on healthcare - more per person than any other country.
The report, Measure of America, was funded by Oxfam America, the Conrad Hilton Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation. It shows each of the 11 countries that rank higher than the US in human development has a lower per-capita income.
Those countries score better on the health and knowledge indices that make up the overall human development index (HDI), which is calculated each year by the United Nations Development Programme.
And each has achieved better outcomes in areas such as infant mortality and longevity, with less spending per head.
Japanese, for example, can expect to outlive Americans, on average, by more than four years. In fact, citizens of Israel, Greece, Singapore, Costa Rica, South Korea and every western European and Nordic country save one can expect to live longer than Americans.
There are also wider differences, the report shows. The average Asian woman, for example, lives for almost 89 years, while African-American women live until 76. For men of the same groups, the difference is 14 years.
One of the main problems faced by the US, says the report, is that one in six Americans, or about 47 million people, are not covered by health insurance and so have limited access to healthcare.
As a result, the US is ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in terms of infants surviving to age one. The US infant mortality rate is on a par with that of Croatia, Cuba, Estonia and Poland. If the US could match top-ranked Sweden, about 20,000 more American babies a year would live to their first birthday.
"Human development is concerned with what I take to be the basic development idea: namely, advancing the richness of human life, rather than the richness of the economy in which human beings live, which is only a part of it," said the Nobel laureate economist Amartya Sen, who developed the HDI in 1990.
"We get in this report ... an evaluation of what the limitations of human development are in the US but also ... how the relative place of America has been slipping in comparison with other countries over recent years."
The US has a higher percentage of children living in poverty than any of the world's richest countries.
In fact, the report shows that 15% of American children - 10.7 million - live in families with incomes of less than $1,500 per month.
It also reveals 14% of the population - some 40 million Americans - lack the literacy skills to perform simple, everyday tasks such as understanding newspaper articles and instruction manuals.
And while in much of Europe, Canada, Japan and Russia, levels of enrolment of three and four-year-olds in pre-school are running at about 75%, in the US it is little more than 50%.
The report not only highlights the differences between the US and other countries, it also picks up on the huge discrepancies between states, the country's 436 congressional districts and between ethnic groups.
"The Measure of America reveals huge gaps among some groups in our country to access opportunity and reach their potential," said the report's co-author, Sarah Burd-Sharps. "Some Americans are living anywhere from 30 to 50 years behind others when it comes to issues we all care about: health, education and standard of living.
"For example, the state human development index shows that people in last-ranked Mississippi are living 30 years behind those in first-ranked Connecticut."
Inequality remains stark. The richest fifth of Americans earn on average $168,170 a year, almost 15 times the average of the lowest fifth, who make do with $11,352.
The US is far behind many other countries in the support given to working families, particularly in terms of family leave, sick leave and childcare. The country has no federally mandated maternity leave.
The US also ranks first among the 30 rich countries of the Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development in terms of the number of people in prison, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of the total population.
It has 5% of the world's people but 24% of its prisoners.
Ah yes, America sucks, thats why so may risk death to get here....and then become a veryu large part of the problems listed above.
Very racist of you Craig. Blame the victim. American culture would be nothing with out its immigrants (not counting First Nation people) both the forced and poor willing ones who've watched too many hollywood movies and think that is real life there. Just a bunch of uptight, humourless God botherers otherwise. Rock and roll, jazz, Tex-Mex food, pizza, zydeco, boogie. All the fun and groovy things. Then there is all that cheap labour provided by that group. Great for employers wanting to maximize those profits. This has already been discussed in the Political Discussions where it was posted by Paul Rigby (http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13162).
Yes, America does suck. That a nation as wealthy in so many resources can allow their people to exist like this is criminal. It is nothing more than slow motion genocide on the poor.
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 28 2008, 12:14 PM)
Ah yes, America sucks, thats why so may risk death to get here....and then become a veryu large part of the problems listed above.
I'm not sure if it's nationalism or capitalism (or a purely American blend of both), but something has supplanted your morality, Craig. You ignore the subject matter of the article, or maybe you approve of it.
The fact that people from Mexico, Cuba and other third world economies attempt to enter the US is easily explained by the fact the US is still a very wealthy country by comparison.
I'm sure those statistics are reasonably accurate but lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Are they telling us a reason, or just a result?
IMO, I was pretty shocked about the amount of fast food the "average" American ate when I visited the US. There were a large number of people who were seriously obese. Obesity will certainly reduce a person's lifespan, I'm guessing in spite of even the best medical facilities in the world.
And yet I saw lots of people who jogged regularly (by their fitness level).
Fast food / obesity are probably only just some reasons why those figures portray the image they do. IMO.
Are they telling us a reason, or just a result?
IMO, I was pretty shocked about the amount of fast food the "average" American ate when I visited the US. There were a large number of people who were seriously obese. Obesity will certainly reduce a person's lifespan, I'm guessing in spite of even the best medical facilities in the world.
And yet I saw lots of people who jogged regularly (by their fitness level).
Fast food / obesity are probably only just some reasons why those figures portray the image they do. IMO.
QUOTE(Maggie Hansen @ Jul 28 2008, 01:52 PM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul , 12:14 PM)
QUOTE(John Simkin @ Jul , 10:59 AM)
Interesting article by Ashley Seager
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jul...development.usa
Despite spending $230m (£115m) an hour on healthcare, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of almost every other developed country. And while it has the second-highest income per head in the world, the United States ranks 42nd in terms of life expectancy.
These are some of the startling conclusions from a major new report which attempts to explain why the world's number-one economy has slipped to 12th place - from 2nd in 1990- in terms of human development.
The American Human Development Report, which applies rankings of health, education and income to the US, paints a surprising picture of a country that spends well over $5bn each day on healthcare - more per person than any other country.
The report, Measure of America, was funded by Oxfam America, the Conrad Hilton Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation. It shows each of the 11 countries that rank higher than the US in human development has a lower per-capita income.
Those countries score better on the health and knowledge indices that make up the overall human development index (HDI), which is calculated each year by the United Nations Development Programme.
And each has achieved better outcomes in areas such as infant mortality and longevity, with less spending per head.
Japanese, for example, can expect to outlive Americans, on average, by more than four years. In fact, citizens of Israel, Greece, Singapore, Costa Rica, South Korea and every western European and Nordic country save one can expect to live longer than Americans.
There are also wider differences, the report shows. The average Asian woman, for example, lives for almost 89 years, while African-American women live until 76. For men of the same groups, the difference is 14 years.
One of the main problems faced by the US, says the report, is that one in six Americans, or about 47 million people, are not covered by health insurance and so have limited access to healthcare.
As a result, the US is ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in terms of infants surviving to age one. The US infant mortality rate is on a par with that of Croatia, Cuba, Estonia and Poland. If the US could match top-ranked Sweden, about 20,000 more American babies a year would live to their first birthday.
"Human development is concerned with what I take to be the basic development idea: namely, advancing the richness of human life, rather than the richness of the economy in which human beings live, which is only a part of it," said the Nobel laureate economist Amartya Sen, who developed the HDI in 1990.
"We get in this report ... an evaluation of what the limitations of human development are in the US but also ... how the relative place of America has been slipping in comparison with other countries over recent years."
The US has a higher percentage of children living in poverty than any of the world's richest countries.
In fact, the report shows that 15% of American children - 10.7 million - live in families with incomes of less than $1,500 per month.
It also reveals 14% of the population - some 40 million Americans - lack the literacy skills to perform simple, everyday tasks such as understanding newspaper articles and instruction manuals.
And while in much of Europe, Canada, Japan and Russia, levels of enrolment of three and four-year-olds in pre-school are running at about 75%, in the US it is little more than 50%.
The report not only highlights the differences between the US and other countries, it also picks up on the huge discrepancies between states, the country's 436 congressional districts and between ethnic groups.
"The Measure of America reveals huge gaps among some groups in our country to access opportunity and reach their potential," said the report's co-author, Sarah Burd-Sharps. "Some Americans are living anywhere from 30 to 50 years behind others when it comes to issues we all care about: health, education and standard of living.
"For example, the state human development index shows that people in last-ranked Mississippi are living 30 years behind those in first-ranked Connecticut."
Inequality remains stark. The richest fifth of Americans earn on average $168,170 a year, almost 15 times the average of the lowest fifth, who make do with $11,352.
The US is far behind many other countries in the support given to working families, particularly in terms of family leave, sick leave and childcare. The country has no federally mandated maternity leave.
The US also ranks first among the 30 rich countries of the Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development in terms of the number of people in prison, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of the total population.
It has 5% of the world's people but 24% of its prisoners.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jul...development.usa
Despite spending $230m (£115m) an hour on healthcare, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of almost every other developed country. And while it has the second-highest income per head in the world, the United States ranks 42nd in terms of life expectancy.
These are some of the startling conclusions from a major new report which attempts to explain why the world's number-one economy has slipped to 12th place - from 2nd in 1990- in terms of human development.
The American Human Development Report, which applies rankings of health, education and income to the US, paints a surprising picture of a country that spends well over $5bn each day on healthcare - more per person than any other country.
The report, Measure of America, was funded by Oxfam America, the Conrad Hilton Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation. It shows each of the 11 countries that rank higher than the US in human development has a lower per-capita income.
Those countries score better on the health and knowledge indices that make up the overall human development index (HDI), which is calculated each year by the United Nations Development Programme.
And each has achieved better outcomes in areas such as infant mortality and longevity, with less spending per head.
Japanese, for example, can expect to outlive Americans, on average, by more than four years. In fact, citizens of Israel, Greece, Singapore, Costa Rica, South Korea and every western European and Nordic country save one can expect to live longer than Americans.
There are also wider differences, the report shows. The average Asian woman, for example, lives for almost 89 years, while African-American women live until 76. For men of the same groups, the difference is 14 years.
One of the main problems faced by the US, says the report, is that one in six Americans, or about 47 million people, are not covered by health insurance and so have limited access to healthcare.
As a result, the US is ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in terms of infants surviving to age one. The US infant mortality rate is on a par with that of Croatia, Cuba, Estonia and Poland. If the US could match top-ranked Sweden, about 20,000 more American babies a year would live to their first birthday.
"Human development is concerned with what I take to be the basic development idea: namely, advancing the richness of human life, rather than the richness of the economy in which human beings live, which is only a part of it," said the Nobel laureate economist Amartya Sen, who developed the HDI in 1990.
"We get in this report ... an evaluation of what the limitations of human development are in the US but also ... how the relative place of America has been slipping in comparison with other countries over recent years."
The US has a higher percentage of children living in poverty than any of the world's richest countries.
In fact, the report shows that 15% of American children - 10.7 million - live in families with incomes of less than $1,500 per month.
It also reveals 14% of the population - some 40 million Americans - lack the literacy skills to perform simple, everyday tasks such as understanding newspaper articles and instruction manuals.
And while in much of Europe, Canada, Japan and Russia, levels of enrolment of three and four-year-olds in pre-school are running at about 75%, in the US it is little more than 50%.
The report not only highlights the differences between the US and other countries, it also picks up on the huge discrepancies between states, the country's 436 congressional districts and between ethnic groups.
"The Measure of America reveals huge gaps among some groups in our country to access opportunity and reach their potential," said the report's co-author, Sarah Burd-Sharps. "Some Americans are living anywhere from 30 to 50 years behind others when it comes to issues we all care about: health, education and standard of living.
"For example, the state human development index shows that people in last-ranked Mississippi are living 30 years behind those in first-ranked Connecticut."
Inequality remains stark. The richest fifth of Americans earn on average $168,170 a year, almost 15 times the average of the lowest fifth, who make do with $11,352.
The US is far behind many other countries in the support given to working families, particularly in terms of family leave, sick leave and childcare. The country has no federally mandated maternity leave.
The US also ranks first among the 30 rich countries of the Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development in terms of the number of people in prison, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of the total population.
It has 5% of the world's people but 24% of its prisoners.
Ah yes, America sucks, thats why so may risk death to get here....and then become a veryu large part of the problems listed above.
Very racist of you Craig. Blame the victim. American culture would be nothing with out its immigrants (not counting First Nation people) both the forced and poor willing ones who've watched too many hollywood movies and think that is real life there. Just a bunch of uptight, humourless God botherers otherwise. Rock and roll, jazz, Tex-Mex food, pizza, zydeco, boogie. All the fun and groovy things. Then there is all that cheap labour provided by that group. Great for employers wanting to maximize those profits. This has already been discussed in the Political Discussions where it was posted by Paul Rigby (http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13162).
Yes, America does suck. That a nation as wealthy in so many resources can allow their people to exist like this is criminal. It is nothing more than slow motion genocide on the poor.
The ILLEGALS are victims? Now I've heard everything. First off ILLEGALS are NOT immigrants. Immigrants are VERY welcome, just come in through the FRONT door. As for theose employers whou prey on illegals I'm quite happy to see them busted and punished. I live by the rules and thats what I expect from everyone.
QUOTE(Mark Stapleton @ Jul 28 2008, 02:40 PM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 28 2008, 12:14 PM)
Ah yes, America sucks, thats why so may risk death to get here....and then become a veryu large part of the problems listed above.
I'm not sure if it's nationalism or capitalism (or a purely American blend of both), but something has supplanted your morality, Craig. You ignore the subject matter of the article, or maybe you approve of it.
The fact that people from Mexico, Cuba and other third world economies attempt to enter the US is easily explained by the fact the US is still a very wealthy country by comparison.
America is all about personal freedom, despite of the best efforts of those who want to curtail both. If your choices mean you live in poverty, for the most part the blame lies with you. If your choices mean you are here illegally you deal with the bad things that choice entails. It you choose to smoke like a chimney and it kills you at 50, thats the price of your choice. Want to eat fast food, take drugs, smoke/drink/drug while pregnant, drive too fast, not have health insurance, not take advantage of a free education etc...those are personal choices and you should be expected to live by the results of your choices. Its about personal responsibility and, at least IMHO the nanny state destroys that.
I've ignored nothing in the article. Here people have choices. Choice DEMANDS personal responsibility. It not my job to fix the poor choices of others.
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 28 2008, 05:10 PM)
America is all about personal freedom, despite of the best efforts of those who want to curtail both. If your choices mean you live in poverty, for the most part the blame lies with you. If your choices mean you are here illegally you deal with the bad things that choice entails. It you choose to smoke like a chimney and it kills you at 50, thats the price of your choice. Want to eat fast food, take drugs, smoke/drink/drug while pregnant, drive too fast, not have health insurance, not take advantage of a free education etc...those are personal choices and you should be expected to live by the results of your choices. Its about personal responsibility and, at least IMHO the nanny state destroys that.
I've ignored nothing in the article. Here people have choices. Choice DEMANDS personal responsibility. It not my job to fix the poor choices of others.
I've ignored nothing in the article. Here people have choices. Choice DEMANDS personal responsibility. It not my job to fix the poor choices of others.
All countries suffer from people who do things that damage their health. There is no evidence that America suffers from a higher percentage of these people than other countries. As the article points out: “Despite spending $230m (£115m) an hour on healthcare, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of almost every other developed country. And while it has the second-highest income per head in the world, the United States ranks 42nd in terms of life expectancy.”
In fact, the article goes on to say that the US “spends well over $5bn each day on healthcare - more per person than any other country”. The problem is, that the US is the most unequal country in the world. Therefore, while the rich receive excellent health care, a very high percentage of the population, suffer from standards equal to those on offer in the Third World. The report goes on to say: “As a result, the US is ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in terms of infants surviving to age one. The US infant mortality rate is on a par with that of Croatia, Cuba, Estonia and Poland. If the US could match top-ranked Sweden, about 20,000 more American babies a year would live to their first birthday.”
If I was you I would be morally troubled by these figures. Surely these 20,000 babies a year should not be victims to an economic system that is based on the idea of “personal freedom”. This is a phrase that has little meaning to those who die because the political system has been created to protect the wealthy rather than the poor.
QUOTE(John Simkin @ Jul 29 2008, 07:27 AM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 28 2008, 05:10 PM)
America is all about personal freedom, despite of the best efforts of those who want to curtail both. If your choices mean you live in poverty, for the most part the blame lies with you. If your choices mean you are here illegally you deal with the bad things that choice entails. It you choose to smoke like a chimney and it kills you at 50, thats the price of your choice. Want to eat fast food, take drugs, smoke/drink/drug while pregnant, drive too fast, not have health insurance, not take advantage of a free education etc...those are personal choices and you should be expected to live by the results of your choices. Its about personal responsibility and, at least IMHO the nanny state destroys that.
I've ignored nothing in the article. Here people have choices. Choice DEMANDS personal responsibility. It not my job to fix the poor choices of others.
I've ignored nothing in the article. Here people have choices. Choice DEMANDS personal responsibility. It not my job to fix the poor choices of others.
All countries suffer from people who do things that damage their health. There is no evidence that America suffers from a higher percentage of these people than other countries. As the article points out: “Despite spending $230m (£115m) an hour on healthcare, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of almost every other developed country. And while it has the second-highest income per head in the world, the United States ranks 42nd in terms of life expectancy.”
In fact, the article goes on to say that the US “spends well over $5bn each day on healthcare - more per person than any other country”. The problem is, that the US is the most unequal country in the world. Therefore, while the rich receive excellent health care, a very high percentage of the population, suffer from standards equal to those on offer in the Third World. The report goes on to say: “As a result, the US is ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in terms of infants surviving to age one. The US infant mortality rate is on a par with that of Croatia, Cuba, Estonia and Poland. If the US could match top-ranked Sweden, about 20,000 more American babies a year would live to their first birthday.”
If I was you I would be morally troubled by these figures. Surely these 20,000 babies a year should not be victims to an economic system that is based on the idea of “personal freedom”. This is a phrase that has little meaning to those who die because the political system has been created to protect the wealthy rather than the poor.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. In a free society some people will choose the do the wrong things and chose not to avail themself of the governmental systems and private systems designed to provide assistance. We have plenty of these programs here to help those who need it.
But when you cut to the chase, does the US actually have a higher rate of infant mortality, or is it that we report more live births?
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 29 2008, 09:56 PM)
You can lead a horse to water abut you can't make it drink. In a free society some people will choose the do the wrong things and chose not to avail themself of the governmental systems and private systems designed to provide assistance. We have plenty of these programs here to help those who need it.
I actually agree quite strongly with this. You see many people who seem to be intent on self-destructive behaviour despite everything that is done to try and prevent it. Many times I feel that you should let these people remove themselves from society - as long as their withdrawal does not hurt other people.
QUOTE(Evan Burton @ Jul 29 2008, 01:20 PM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 29 2008, 09:56 PM)
You can lead a horse to water abut you can't make it drink. In a free society some people will choose the do the wrong things and chose not to avail themself of the governmental systems and private systems designed to provide assistance. We have plenty of these programs here to help those who need it.
I actually agree quite strongly with this. You see many people who seem to be intent on self-destructive behaviour despite everything that is done to try and prevent it. Many times I feel that you should let these people remove themselves from society - as long as their withdrawal does not hurt other people.
Do you really believe this is the main reason for the high US infant mortality rate? To be considered a civilized society, governments need to do what they can to protect the most vulnerable members of society. How can you claim that the 20,000 unnecessary infant deaths a year is an example of "leading a horse to water but you can't make it drink". Surely, you can make a better excuse for your selfish views on this issue.
QUOTE(Evan Burton @ Jul , 01:20 PM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul , 09:56 PM)
You can lead a horse to water abut you can't make it drink. In a free society some people will choose the do the wrong things and chose not to avail themself of the governmental systems and private systems designed to provide assistance. We have plenty of these programs here to help those who need it.
I actually agree quite strongly with this. You see many people who seem to be intent on self-destructive behaviour despite everything that is done to try and prevent it. Many times I feel that you should let these people remove themselves from society - as long as their withdrawal does not hurt other people.
You are, however, assuming that these are grown adults, fully informed and educated ones, at that, and with equal access to any and all resources. Well life just isn't like that. The genes, the money, the brains, the opportunities, the power, the means are not distributed equally or fairly. I also have no problem with certain people leaving the gene pool, especially the smug, self-centred, narrow minded, mean spirited, middle class ones. I'm alright Jack. Yes, let them eat cake!
It is the people with the power and resources who are leading us all on the road to extinction that are exhibiting self-destructive behaviour that worry me.
QUOTE(John Simkin @ Jul 29 2008, 01:56 PM)
QUOTE(Evan Burton @ Jul 29 2008, 01:20 PM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 29 2008, 09:56 PM)
You can lead a horse to water abut you can't make it drink. In a free society some people will choose the do the wrong things and chose not to avail themself of the governmental systems and private systems designed to provide assistance. We have plenty of these programs here to help those who need it.
I actually agree quite strongly with this. You see many people who seem to be intent on self-destructive behaviour despite everything that is done to try and prevent it. Many times I feel that you should let these people remove themselves from society - as long as their withdrawal does not hurt other people.
Do you really believe this is the main reason for the high US infant mortality rate? To be considered a civilized society, governments need to do what they can to protect the most vulnerable members of society. How can you claim that the 20,000 unnecessary infant deaths a year is an example of "leading a horse to water but you can't make it drink". Surely, you can make a better excuse for your selfish views on this issue.
Its a REALLY big part of it. There are two main factors in infant mortality in the US. Low birth rate and premature birth. Premies are mostly the result of fertility drugs. Low birth weight is mostly the result of poor personal habits of the mother. In a free scoiety you can't force someone to behave. Its not always about money or access.
When you cut to the chase is a country that simply lets premies under a certain size die a civilized society or is it the US who goes to great lengths to keep these babies alive the civilized society?
Bottom line. IF mothers used good judgement more babies would survive. This is a question of personal choice and personal responsibility, not governmental intervention.
BTW, if your claims that poverty and lack of access to medical treatment is the main cause of infant mortality in the US , then why in the US do Latinos have a much lower IM rate than blacks? They are lower on the economic and educational scale than blacks?
QUOTE
BTW, if your claims that poverty and lack of access to medical treatment is the main cause of infant mortality in the US , then why in the US do Latinos have a much lower IM rate than blacks? They are lower on the economic and educational scale than blacks?
Because they are still higher than the white wealthy group. If there are differences between Latinos and blacks it could be due to any number of other variables besides income and education - religious, cultural practices, environmental, residential location, average age of mother etc. One thing both groups have in common is that they do not share the same access to health care that wealthy white groups do and one of the results is higher infant mortality. Not slack mothering. Wealthy white parents are happy enough to out source their child rearing to Latinos and Blacks.
QUOTE(Maggie Hansen @ Jul 29 2008, 03:39 PM)
QUOTE
BTW, if your claims that poverty and lack of access to medical treatment is the main cause of infant mortality in the US , then why in the US do Latinos have a much lower IM rate than blacks? They are lower on the economic and educational scale than blacks?
Because they are still higher than the white wealthy group. If there are differences between Latinos and blacks it could be due to any number of other variables besides income and education - religious, cultural practices, environmental, residential location, average age of mother etc. One thing both groups have in common is that they do not share the same access to health care that wealthy white groups do and one of the results is higher infant mortality. Not slack mothering. Wealthy white parents are happy enough to out source their child rearing to Latinos and Blacks.
What about poor whites? They are no different than poor black or latinos and their rates are not as high as blacks. All have access to education etc. It does not take a rocket scientist nor access to medical care to know that if you do drugs, drink, smoke, eat crappy food and generally live a risky lifestyle the chances of having a low birthweight baby increases.
Personal responsibility. First formost and always.
You need to get over your class envy.
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 28 2008, 05:10 PM)
I've ignored nothing in the article. Here people have choices. Choice DEMANDS personal responsibility. It not my job to fix the poor choices of others.
So the damning statistics are due to the fact that Americans make more poor choices than the people of the other nations in the Report?
Do you have an explanation for why Americans are such poor choice makers?
QUOTE(Mark Stapleton @ Jul 29 2008, 04:06 PM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 28 2008, 05:10 PM)
I've ignored nothing in the article. Here people have choices. Choice DEMANDS personal responsibility. It not my job to fix the poor choices of others.
So the damning statistics are due to the fact that Americans make more poor choices than the people of the other nations in the Report?
Do you have an explanation for why Americans are such poor choice makers?
Do YOU understand that the reporting of live births in the USA is very different than most of the rest of the world? In other words the stats are bullsnit. Or are you just being a parrot because of your worldview?
"Do you have an explanation for why Americans are such poor choice makers?"
For many, generations on the governmental dole....who needs to be responsible when someone else can do it for you.
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 29 2008, 04:13 PM)
[Do YOU understand that the reporting of live births in the USA is very different than most of the rest of the world? In other words the stats are bullsnit. Or are you just being a parrot because of your worldview?
"Do you have an explanation for why Americans are such poor choice makers?"
For many, generations on the governmental dole....who needs to be responsible when someone else can do it for you.
"Do you have an explanation for why Americans are such poor choice makers?"
For many, generations on the governmental dole....who needs to be responsible when someone else can do it for you.
I don't know, Craig.
I THINK you are saying that the statistics are bullshit.
But you seem to agree that Americans are appallingly bad choice makers.
Which one are you running with? (not that it makes any difference).
QUOTE(Mark Stapleton @ Jul 29 2008, 05:11 PM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 29 2008, 04:13 PM)
[Do YOU understand that the reporting of live births in the USA is very different than most of the rest of the world? In other words the stats are bullsnit. Or are you just being a parrot because of your worldview?
"Do you have an explanation for why Americans are such poor choice makers?"
For many, generations on the governmental dole....who needs to be responsible when someone else can do it for you.
"Do you have an explanation for why Americans are such poor choice makers?"
For many, generations on the governmental dole....who needs to be responsible when someone else can do it for you.
I don't know, Craig.
I THINK you are saying that the statistics are bullshit.
But you seem to agree that Americans are appallingly bad choice makers.
Which one are you running with? (not that it makes any difference).
Both fit.
The stats are bullsnit
http://www.overpopulation.com/articles/200...fant-mortality/
And there are an alarming number of Americans making really stupid choices on how to live thier lives. Thats how freedom works. There is an amazing system here that provides free or low cost pre-natal care. The problemis not the lack of resources, but the lack of personal responsibility.
The stats are bullsnit
http://www.overpopulation.com/articles/200...fant-mortality/
According to the foregoing article (post #1), the report was funded was Oxfam, the Conrad Hilton Foundation and the Rockerfeller Foundation. I assume thier intentions are good and don't see how their interests would be enhanced by painting such a bleak picture. It also reinforces what I've been reading for years about America's wealth and social inequality.
So you respond with a link to a dinky website. I think I know bullsnit when I see it.
[/quote]
http://www.overpopulation.com/articles/200...fant-mortality/
According to the foregoing article (post #1), the report was funded was Oxfam, the Conrad Hilton Foundation and the Rockerfeller Foundation. I assume thier intentions are good and don't see how their interests would be enhanced by painting such a bleak picture. It also reinforces what I've been reading for years about America's wealth and social inequality.
So you respond with a link to a dinky website. I think I know bullsnit when I see it.
[/quote]
QUOTE(Jan Klimkowski @ Jul 29 2008, 05:53 PM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 29 2008, 05:38 PM)
QUOTE(Mark Stapleton @ Jul 29 2008, 05:11 PM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 29 2008, 04:13 PM)
[Do YOU understand that the reporting of live births in the USA is very different than most of the rest of the world? In other words the stats are bullsnit. Or are you just being a parrot because of your worldview?
"Do you have an explanation for why Americans are such poor choice makers?"
For many, generations on the governmental dole....who needs to be responsible when someone else can do it for you.
"Do you have an explanation for why Americans are such poor choice makers?"
For many, generations on the governmental dole....who needs to be responsible when someone else can do it for you.
I don't know, Craig.
I THINK you are saying that the statistics are bullshit.
But you seem to agree that Americans are appallingly bad choice makers.
Which one are you running with? (not that it makes any difference).
Both fit.
The stats are bullsnit
http://www.overpopulation.com/articles/200...fant-mortality/
And there are an alarming number of Americans making really stupid choices on how to live thier lives. Thats how freedom works. There is an amazing system here that provides free or low cost pre-natal care. The problemis not the lack of resources, but the lack of personal responsibility.
Having extensively researched American foundations pushing the "overpopulation" argument - often for nefarious reasons - I am instinctively suspicious of sites with names such as: overpopulation.com
I've browsed the website but can find no mention of who funds them and who runs the site. I would welcome such information.
I'm not sure nor do I care. I can't find anything that refutes the contention that the IM stats are skewed by the differences of reporting a live birth. I'll be happy to view any data that challenges the claim and adjust my position as required.
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 29 2008, 05:38 PM)
And there are an alarming number of Americans making really stupid choices on how to live thier lives. Thats how freedom works. There is an amazing system here that provides free or low cost pre-natal care. The problemis not the lack of resources, but the lack of personal responsibility.
Again with the poor choices. You're still playing both sides of the street, you crafty devil.
Fascinating stuff about how freedom works. I'd like to know more about this interesting concept.
p.s. we'll forget the fact that the US prison population exceeds that of other modern countries by a factor of five---that's just poor choices, right?
QUOTE(Mark Stapleton @ Jul 29 2008, 06:12 PM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 29 2008, 05:38 PM)
And there are an alarming number of Americans making really stupid choices on how to live thier lives. Thats how freedom works. There is an amazing system here that provides free or low cost pre-natal care. The problemis not the lack of resources, but the lack of personal responsibility.
Again with the poor choices. You're still playing both sides of the street, you crafty devil.
Fascinating stuff about how freedom works. I'd like to know more about this interesting concept.
p.s. we'll forget the fact that the US prison population exceeds that of other modern countries by a factor of five---that's just poor choices, right?
Why not include both, they are both causes. I can't help it you decided to believe something just because it fit your worldview and then it turns out you made a poor choice.
You have a problem with punishing people who made a poor choice and broke the law?
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 29 2008, 06:28 PM)
You have a problem with punishing people who made a poor choice and broke the law?
YOU certainly don't.
The big question (that you have yet to satisfactorily answer) remains. Why, WHY are Americans making such poor choices--statistically significant and disturbing--whereas most other western nations are not?
Is it the water?
QUOTE(Mark Stapleton @ Jul 29 2008, 06:51 PM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 29 2008, 06:28 PM)
You have a problem with punishing people who made a poor choice and broke the law?
YOU certainly don't.
The big question (that you have yet to satisfactorily answer) remains. Why, WHY are Americans making such poor choices--statistically significant and disturbing--whereas most other western nations are not?
Is it the water?
Lots of reasons. Partly because so many seem unwilling to take advantage of the opportunity provided and instead look for shortcuts. A perfect example is the huge number of people who fail to even graduate from high school despite the vast resources we pump into the system.
In other words, lack of personal responsibility.
Can you document that other western nations DON'T have a problem with people making poor choices?
This proposed nanny-statism should sure help matters in LA: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25896233
I don't need the government to protect me from myself.
I don't need the government to protect me from myself.
QUOTE(John Simkin @ Jul 29 2008, 10:56 PM)
Do you really believe this is the main reason for the high US infant mortality rate?
I don't know, but it may play a major part. We'd have to look more into the details of the mortality rate. What are the causes? Are children dying because women cannot get basic medical care? Are the mothers of the infants who are dying themselves sick, such that the child's chance of survival is slim (e.g. drugs, alcohol, AIDS, etc)? Is there some disease which is claiming children's lives?
Without knowing more, we can only speculate as to what might be the cause - major or otherwise.
QUOTE(Christopher Hall @ Jul 29 2008, 09:17 PM)
This proposed nanny-statism should sure help matters in LA: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25896233
I don't need the government to protect me from myself.
I don't need the government to protect me from myself.
You and Craig will not get any argument from me about personal responsibility.
However where is the responsibility of the manufacturers of trans fats (and other toxic products) for the effects of their products on people? While they are free to make it (and make profits from it) and people are free to eat it there are real costs involved in the use of toxic products. Manufacturers have been permitted in our societies to externalize the negative costs and consequences of the use of their products. The public and the planet bare the costs while the manufacturer take the profit. No responsibility taken there.
QUOTE(Maggie Hansen @ Jul 30 2008, 11:27 AM)
QUOTE(Christopher Hall @ Jul 29 2008, 09:17 PM)
This proposed nanny-statism should sure help matters in LA: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25896233
I don't need the government to protect me from myself.
I don't need the government to protect me from myself.
You and Craig will not get any argument from me about personal responsibility.
However where is the responsibility of the manufacturers of trans fats (and other toxic products) for the effects of their products on people? While they are free to make it (and make profits from it) and people are free to eat it there are real costs involved in the use of toxic products. Manufacturers have been permitted in our societies to externalize the negative costs and consequences of the use of their products. The public and the planet bare the costs while the manufacturer take the profit. No responsibility taken there.
Manufacturers get whacked all the time for making bad stuff. They are sure not perfect and they need their feet held firmly in the fire from time to time. Ther are rules in place and they need to abide just like everyone else. There are systems in place to deal whese sorts of thing. The best one is the power of the wallet. Its your money and your choice on how most of it gets spent. Choose wisely and blame no one but yourself.
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 30 2008, 11:51 AM)
Manufacturers get whacked all the time for making bad stuff. They are sure not perfect and they need their feet held firmly in the fire from time to time. Ther are rules in place and they need to abide just like everyone else. There are systems in place to deal whese sorts of thing. The best one is the power of the wallet. Its your money and your choice on how most of it gets spent. Choose wisely and blame no one but yourself.
All NeoCons are against government interference until they get into trouble themselves. Angelo Mozilo, the chief executive officer of Countrywide, America’s biggest mortgage lender, took home $120 million in 2006. Even so, he complained about the government “over-regulating the industry”.
On 10th August 2007, Mozilo had changed his tune when he called for government help because demand for its home loans had evaporated. He argued that the monetary authorities should step in with unlimited quantities of financial assistance.
QUOTE(John Simkin @ Jul 30 2008, 06:05 PM)
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 30 2008, 11:51 AM)
Manufacturers get whacked all the time for making bad stuff. They are sure not perfect and they need their feet held firmly in the fire from time to time. Ther are rules in place and they need to abide just like everyone else. There are systems in place to deal whese sorts of thing. The best one is the power of the wallet. Its your money and your choice on how most of it gets spent. Choose wisely and blame no one but yourself.
All NeoCons are against government interference until they get into trouble themselves. Angelo Mozilo, the chief executive officer of Countrywide, America’s biggest mortgage lender, took home $120 million in 2006. Even so, he complained about the government “over-regulating the industry”.
On 10th August 2007, Mozilo had changed his tune when he called for government help because demand for its home loans had evaporated. He argued that the monetary authorities should step in with unlimited quantities of financial assistance.
"ALL"? You should know better than to make sweeping statements like that John. I hope we are grading you on a curve....
If you read my statements you will know that my personal belief is that, you break the rules...you pay. I also believe that failure should be let to happen and I'm against the bailout of these smucks. Lets just take the hit and move on. I expect no one to bail me or my business out no matter what happens. I can't speak any other conservatives but there are other voices just like mine. And I suspect, in your eyes, I'm a neo-con....
QUOTE(John Simkin @ Jul 30 2008, 06:05 PM)
All NeoCons are against government interference until they get into trouble themselves. Angelo Mozilo, the chief executive officer of Countrywide, America’s biggest mortgage lender, took home $120 million in 2006. Even so, he complained about the government “over-regulating the industry”.
On 10th August 2007, Mozilo had changed his tune when he called for government help because demand for its home loans had evaporated. He argued that the monetary authorities should step in with unlimited quantities of financial assistance.
On 10th August 2007, Mozilo had changed his tune when he called for government help because demand for its home loans had evaporated. He argued that the monetary authorities should step in with unlimited quantities of financial assistance.
I agree John.
It's incredible how quickly our corporate leaders change from rabid free marketeers into enthusiastic recipients of Government largesse when things go sour.
Thatcherism keeps kicking.
QUOTE(Mark Stapleton @ Jul 31 2008, 03:18 PM)
QUOTE(John Simkin @ Jul 30 2008, 06:05 PM)
All NeoCons are against government interference until they get into trouble themselves. Angelo Mozilo, the chief executive officer of Countrywide, America’s biggest mortgage lender, took home $120 million in 2006. Even so, he complained about the government “over-regulating the industry”.
On 10th August 2007, Mozilo had changed his tune when he called for government help because demand for its home loans had evaporated. He argued that the monetary authorities should step in with unlimited quantities of financial assistance.
On 10th August 2007, Mozilo had changed his tune when he called for government help because demand for its home loans had evaporated. He argued that the monetary authorities should step in with unlimited quantities of financial assistance.
I agree John.
It's incredible how quickly our corporate leaders change from rabid free marketeers into enthusiastic recipients of Government largesse when things go sour.
Thatcherism keeps kicking.
So I see we can add Mark Stapleton to the list of those failing the grade by espousing "ALL".
Good work there mark...
QUOTE(Craig Lamson @ Jul 30 2008, 11:25 AM)
[...]
If you read my statements you will know that my personal belief is that, you break the rules...you pay. I also believe that failure should be let to happen and I'm against the bailout of these smucks. Lets just take the hit and move on. I expect no one to bail me or my business out no matter what happens. I can't speak any other conservatives but there are other voices just like mine. And I suspect, in your eyes, I'm a neo-con....
If you read my statements you will know that my personal belief is that, you break the rules...you pay. I also believe that failure should be let to happen and I'm against the bailout of these smucks. Lets just take the hit and move on. I expect no one to bail me or my business out no matter what happens. I can't speak any other conservatives but there are other voices just like mine. And I suspect, in your eyes, I'm a neo-con....
"Lets just take the hit and move on." Take the hit? Economic hit? It would of been nice if 5 years ago the neo-con[s] and the Republican party felt that way concerning IRAQ... We invaded IRAQ based on WMD lies. Very, very expensive (in terms of blood as well as money) lies!
Whatever happened to William 'aka Billy' Kristol the premiere neo-con poster boy? Is he in hiding these day's?
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