Dear Members and Readers of the Education Forum,
I am pleased to announce the launch of the Deep Politics Forum.
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/index.php
The following is excerpted from our Mission Statement:
"The Deep Politics Forum is an online community dedicated to shining light into the shadowy reaches of historical and contemporary deep political systems and their objectives, strategies, tactics, and operatives, and understanding their social, economic, and cultural consequences.
"Our mission transcends mere academic inquiry, which we accept as an invaluable tactic in a broader strategy to wield knowledge and truth as weapons in a coordinated assault on the manipulators who operate within deep political shadows."
I invite all members and readers of the Education Forum to visit the DPF and apply for membership.
Thank you for your kind consideration.
Charles R. Drago
Co-Founder
Deep Politics Forum
NOTE: It is not our intention to take up valuable bandwidth on any other Internet venture. Accordingly, all questions and comments regarding the Deep Politics Forum should be sent directly to our website and will not be addressed here.
Full Version: Introducing: The Deep Politics Forum
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Oct 17 2008, 01:30 PM) 
Dear Members and Readers of the Education Forum,
I am pleased to announce the launch of the Deep Politics Forum.
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/index.php
The following is excerpted from our Mission Statement:
"The Deep Politics Forum is an online community dedicated to shining light into the shadowy reaches of historical and contemporary deep political systems and their objectives, strategies, tactics, and operatives, and understanding their social, economic, and cultural consequences.
"Our mission transcends mere academic inquiry, which we accept as an invaluable tactic in a broader strategy to wield knowledge and truth as weapons in a coordinated assault on the manipulators who operate within deep political shadows."
I am pleased to announce the launch of the Deep Politics Forum.
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/index.php
The following is excerpted from our Mission Statement:
"The Deep Politics Forum is an online community dedicated to shining light into the shadowy reaches of historical and contemporary deep political systems and their objectives, strategies, tactics, and operatives, and understanding their social, economic, and cultural consequences.
"Our mission transcends mere academic inquiry, which we accept as an invaluable tactic in a broader strategy to wield knowledge and truth as weapons in a coordinated assault on the manipulators who operate within deep political shadows."
With such a lofty mission statement, I thought it appropriate that I chronicle here my own experience with the "Deep Politics Forum" and two of its co-founders, including Mr. Drago. Below is an email I sent to Mr. Drago today on this public issue that is self-explanatory, followed by his response to me today:
QUOTE (Ashton Gray)
cc: Dawn Meredith
Dear Mr. Drago,
I am writing to bring to your attention a matter that transpired last week to which you were a party according to my best information and knowledge.
The incident had an earlier beginning, on 1 September of this year, when I received an email from Dawn Meredith titled "new forum":
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxx.com
Subject: new forum
Date: September 1, 2008 2:08:29 PM CDT
Envelope-To: ashtongray@xxxxxxx.com
those of us who left the ed forum...
any interest?
won't be moderated, except for trolling
no cia types allowed
dawn
====================================
This was followed up by Ms. Meredith on 11 inst. with the following email:
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Fw: Fw: link to our new forum:
Date: October 11, 2008 11:10:22 AM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxxx.com
When you get an opportunity take a look. We have all left the ed forum ..
Dawn
[LINK enclosed in forwarded message from Myra Bronstein]
====================================
Having just returned from a week away and being in the grip of brutal deadlines that would utterly prevent any active participation in the short term, I yet had the clear understanding that Ms. Meredith, who I long have considered a friend, was one of the founders of the forum and wanted me to register at her new forum.
I therefore immediately clicked the supplied link and went through the registration process, and received an email from the Deep Politics forum which said in pertinent part (emphasis added):
"Before we can activate your account ONE LAST STEP must be taken to complete your registration. Please note - you must complete this LAST STEP to become a registered member. You will ONLY NEED TO VISIT THIS URL ONCE TO ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT."
As I'm sure you must know quite thoroughly by now, the message from your forum was a damned lie.
My account was not activated. Instead, three days later I received another email from Ms. Meredith which said in pertinent part:
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: link to our new forum:
Date: October 14, 2008 7:38:45 AM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxx.com
...Best I can tell re forum somefolks voted against you. It's private. Of course I voted for you. ...
====================================
It's my best knowledge and information that you, too, Mr. Drago, participated in this pathetic travesty and, like Ms. Meredith, did not have the decency ever to inform me that I was secretly being subjected to such debased, underhanded, backstabbing tactics by people claiming to be my "friends," without the slightest prior disclosure--and, indeed, hidden behind a veil of anonymity and blatant false statements in the forum response email quoted above.
The limitations of the English language make it completely impossible for me to express my contempt and revulsion at such depraved and dishonorable conduct. At all relevant times Ms. Meredith knew damned well that I would NEVER have knowingly subjected myself to any such profanation, and I believe that you knew it, too. If you didn't, you don't believe anything you've ever pretended to stand for.
Ms. Meredith has since, in a series of email, claimed stringently that she had no idea I would be subjected to any such infamous process, sending me a document of your own authorship dated 16 October 2008 entitled "APPLICATION REVISION 1" as though that document--DATED FIVE DAYS AFTER THE FACT OF MY REGISTRATION--had some sort of relevance going to "proof" that she wasn't a party to this unspeakable betrayal of my trust. But NOTHING alters the fact that sometime between 11 October and 14 October, she participated in a "vote" [SPIT!] about me, knowing full well that I had no knowledge whatsoever about any such loathsome process, and she never even had the decency to notify me that it was happening. And so did you particpate.
There is a maxim in my creed: "What you resist, you become." In this matter, you and Ms. Meredith stand as living proof.
I therefore demand that both you and Ms. Meredith forward this email at once to every single person in your covert clique who thought that they "voted" on me, that you cc: me on it, and that you issue it over your own unqualified letter of apology to me stating unequivocally that I was tricked into being dragged through your kangaroo court of anonymous "jurors," that I was subjected to trial in absentia without the slightest representation or hearing, and without even notification that I had been placed on trial--something even the Inquisition never stooped to.
Ashton Gray
Dear Mr. Drago,
I am writing to bring to your attention a matter that transpired last week to which you were a party according to my best information and knowledge.
The incident had an earlier beginning, on 1 September of this year, when I received an email from Dawn Meredith titled "new forum":
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxx.com
Subject: new forum
Date: September 1, 2008 2:08:29 PM CDT
Envelope-To: ashtongray@xxxxxxx.com
those of us who left the ed forum...
any interest?
won't be moderated, except for trolling
no cia types allowed
dawn
====================================
This was followed up by Ms. Meredith on 11 inst. with the following email:
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Fw: Fw: link to our new forum:
Date: October 11, 2008 11:10:22 AM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxxx.com
When you get an opportunity take a look. We have all left the ed forum ..
Dawn
[LINK enclosed in forwarded message from Myra Bronstein]
====================================
Having just returned from a week away and being in the grip of brutal deadlines that would utterly prevent any active participation in the short term, I yet had the clear understanding that Ms. Meredith, who I long have considered a friend, was one of the founders of the forum and wanted me to register at her new forum.
I therefore immediately clicked the supplied link and went through the registration process, and received an email from the Deep Politics forum which said in pertinent part (emphasis added):
"Before we can activate your account ONE LAST STEP must be taken to complete your registration. Please note - you must complete this LAST STEP to become a registered member. You will ONLY NEED TO VISIT THIS URL ONCE TO ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT."
As I'm sure you must know quite thoroughly by now, the message from your forum was a damned lie.
My account was not activated. Instead, three days later I received another email from Ms. Meredith which said in pertinent part:
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: link to our new forum:
Date: October 14, 2008 7:38:45 AM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxx.com
...Best I can tell re forum somefolks voted against you. It's private. Of course I voted for you. ...
====================================
It's my best knowledge and information that you, too, Mr. Drago, participated in this pathetic travesty and, like Ms. Meredith, did not have the decency ever to inform me that I was secretly being subjected to such debased, underhanded, backstabbing tactics by people claiming to be my "friends," without the slightest prior disclosure--and, indeed, hidden behind a veil of anonymity and blatant false statements in the forum response email quoted above.
The limitations of the English language make it completely impossible for me to express my contempt and revulsion at such depraved and dishonorable conduct. At all relevant times Ms. Meredith knew damned well that I would NEVER have knowingly subjected myself to any such profanation, and I believe that you knew it, too. If you didn't, you don't believe anything you've ever pretended to stand for.
Ms. Meredith has since, in a series of email, claimed stringently that she had no idea I would be subjected to any such infamous process, sending me a document of your own authorship dated 16 October 2008 entitled "APPLICATION REVISION 1" as though that document--DATED FIVE DAYS AFTER THE FACT OF MY REGISTRATION--had some sort of relevance going to "proof" that she wasn't a party to this unspeakable betrayal of my trust. But NOTHING alters the fact that sometime between 11 October and 14 October, she participated in a "vote" [SPIT!] about me, knowing full well that I had no knowledge whatsoever about any such loathsome process, and she never even had the decency to notify me that it was happening. And so did you particpate.
There is a maxim in my creed: "What you resist, you become." In this matter, you and Ms. Meredith stand as living proof.
I therefore demand that both you and Ms. Meredith forward this email at once to every single person in your covert clique who thought that they "voted" on me, that you cc: me on it, and that you issue it over your own unqualified letter of apology to me stating unequivocally that I was tricked into being dragged through your kangaroo court of anonymous "jurors," that I was subjected to trial in absentia without the slightest representation or hearing, and without even notification that I had been placed on trial--something even the Inquisition never stooped to.
Ashton Gray
Here is Mr. Drago's response:
QUOTE ('Charles Drago)
From: cdrago1@xxx.net
Subject: Re: Notice
Date: October 19, 2008 12:29:13 PM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxxxx.com
Cc: dmeredith@xxxxxxxxx.com
My Dear "Ashton Gray,"
Until and unless you choose to step out of the shadows cast by your pseudonym and demonstrate the requisite courage and common courtesy to engage in honest dialogue, I shall dismiss your communications as I would those of any other cowardly disseminator of disinformation.
Sincerely,
Charles R. Drago
Subject: Re: Notice
Date: October 19, 2008 12:29:13 PM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxxxx.com
Cc: dmeredith@xxxxxxxxx.com
My Dear "Ashton Gray,"
Until and unless you choose to step out of the shadows cast by your pseudonym and demonstrate the requisite courage and common courtesy to engage in honest dialogue, I shall dismiss your communications as I would those of any other cowardly disseminator of disinformation.
Sincerely,
Charles R. Drago
I hope you all will sleep better at night knowing that such selfless guardians of personal privacy, truth, honor, and justice are vigilantly on the job, and I hope that you will join them in their tireless efforts.
Ashton Gray
QUOTE (Ashton Gray @ Oct 19 2008, 06:19 PM)
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Oct 17 2008, 01:30 PM)
Dear Members and Readers of the Education Forum,
I am pleased to announce the launch of the Deep Politics Forum.
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/index.php
The following is excerpted from our Mission Statement:
"The Deep Politics Forum is an online community dedicated to shining light into the shadowy reaches of historical and contemporary deep political systems and their objectives, strategies, tactics, and operatives, and understanding their social, economic, and cultural consequences.
"Our mission transcends mere academic inquiry, which we accept as an invaluable tactic in a broader strategy to wield knowledge and truth as weapons in a coordinated assault on the manipulators who operate within deep political shadows."
I am pleased to announce the launch of the Deep Politics Forum.
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/index.php
The following is excerpted from our Mission Statement:
"The Deep Politics Forum is an online community dedicated to shining light into the shadowy reaches of historical and contemporary deep political systems and their objectives, strategies, tactics, and operatives, and understanding their social, economic, and cultural consequences.
"Our mission transcends mere academic inquiry, which we accept as an invaluable tactic in a broader strategy to wield knowledge and truth as weapons in a coordinated assault on the manipulators who operate within deep political shadows."
With such a lofty mission statement, I thought it appropriate that I chronicle here my own experience with the "Deep Politics Forum" and two of its co-founders, including Mr. Drago. Below is an email I sent to Mr. Drago today on this public issue that is self-explanatory, followed by his response to me today:
QUOTE (Ashton Gray)
cc: Dawn Meredith
Dear Mr. Drago,
I am writing to bring to your attention a matter that transpired last week to which you were a party according to my best information and knowledge.
The incident had an earlier beginning, on 1 September of this year, when I received an email from Dawn Meredith titled "new forum":
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxx.com
Subject: new forum
Date: September 1, 2008 2:08:29 PM CDT
Envelope-To: ashtongray@xxxxxxx.com
those of us who left the ed forum...
any interest?
won't be moderated, except for trolling
no cia types allowed
dawn
====================================
This was followed up by Ms. Meredith on 11 inst. with the following email:
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Fw: Fw: link to our new forum:
Date: October 11, 2008 11:10:22 AM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxxx.com
When you get an opportunity take a look. We have all left the ed forum ..
Dawn
[LINK enclosed in forwarded message from Myra Bronstein]
====================================
Having just returned from a week away and being in the grip of brutal deadlines that would utterly prevent any active participation in the short term, I yet had the clear understanding that Ms. Meredith, who I long have considered a friend, was one of the founders of the forum and wanted me to register at her new forum.
I therefore immediately clicked the supplied link and went through the registration process, and received an email from the Deep Politics forum which said in pertinent part (emphasis added):
"Before we can activate your account ONE LAST STEP must be taken to complete your registration. Please note - you must complete this LAST STEP to become a registered member. You will ONLY NEED TO VISIT THIS URL ONCE TO ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT."
As I'm sure you must know quite thoroughly by now, the message from your forum was a damned lie.
My account was not activated. Instead, three days later I received another email from Ms. Meredith which said in pertinent part:
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: link to our new forum:
Date: October 14, 2008 7:38:45 AM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxx.com
...Best I can tell re forum somefolks voted against you. It's private. Of course I voted for you. ...
====================================
It's my best knowledge and information that you, too, Mr. Drago, participated in this pathetic travesty and, like Ms. Meredith, did not have the decency ever to inform me that I was secretly being subjected to such debased, underhanded, backstabbing tactics by people claiming to be my "friends," without the slightest prior disclosure--and, indeed, hidden behind a veil of anonymity and blatant false statements in the forum response email quoted above.
The limitations of the English language make it completely impossible for me to express my contempt and revulsion at such depraved and dishonorable conduct. At all relevant times Ms. Meredith knew damned well that I would NEVER have knowingly subjected myself to any such profanation, and I believe that you knew it, too. If you didn't, you don't believe anything you've ever pretended to stand for.
Ms. Meredith has since, in a series of email, claimed stringently that she had no idea I would be subjected to any such infamous process, sending me a document of your own authorship dated 16 October 2008 entitled "APPLICATION REVISION 1" as though that document--DATED FIVE DAYS AFTER THE FACT OF MY REGISTRATION--had some sort of relevance going to "proof" that she wasn't a party to this unspeakable betrayal of my trust. But NOTHING alters the fact that sometime between 11 October and 14 October, she participated in a "vote" [SPIT!] about me, knowing full well that I had no knowledge whatsoever about any such loathsome process, and she never even had the decency to notify me that it was happening. And so did you particpate.
There is a maxim in my creed: "What you resist, you become." In this matter, you and Ms. Meredith stand as living proof.
I therefore demand that both you and Ms. Meredith forward this email at once to every single person in your covert clique who thought that they "voted" on me, that you cc: me on it, and that you issue it over your own unqualified letter of apology to me stating unequivocally that I was tricked into being dragged through your kangaroo court of anonymous "jurors," that I was subjected to trial in absentia without the slightest representation or hearing, and without even notification that I had been placed on trial--something even the Inquisition never stooped to.
Ashton Gray
Dear Mr. Drago,
I am writing to bring to your attention a matter that transpired last week to which you were a party according to my best information and knowledge.
The incident had an earlier beginning, on 1 September of this year, when I received an email from Dawn Meredith titled "new forum":
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxx.com
Subject: new forum
Date: September 1, 2008 2:08:29 PM CDT
Envelope-To: ashtongray@xxxxxxx.com
those of us who left the ed forum...
any interest?
won't be moderated, except for trolling
no cia types allowed
dawn
====================================
This was followed up by Ms. Meredith on 11 inst. with the following email:
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Fw: Fw: link to our new forum:
Date: October 11, 2008 11:10:22 AM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxxx.com
When you get an opportunity take a look. We have all left the ed forum ..
Dawn
[LINK enclosed in forwarded message from Myra Bronstein]
====================================
Having just returned from a week away and being in the grip of brutal deadlines that would utterly prevent any active participation in the short term, I yet had the clear understanding that Ms. Meredith, who I long have considered a friend, was one of the founders of the forum and wanted me to register at her new forum.
I therefore immediately clicked the supplied link and went through the registration process, and received an email from the Deep Politics forum which said in pertinent part (emphasis added):
"Before we can activate your account ONE LAST STEP must be taken to complete your registration. Please note - you must complete this LAST STEP to become a registered member. You will ONLY NEED TO VISIT THIS URL ONCE TO ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT."
As I'm sure you must know quite thoroughly by now, the message from your forum was a damned lie.
My account was not activated. Instead, three days later I received another email from Ms. Meredith which said in pertinent part:
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: link to our new forum:
Date: October 14, 2008 7:38:45 AM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxx.com
...Best I can tell re forum somefolks voted against you. It's private. Of course I voted for you. ...
====================================
It's my best knowledge and information that you, too, Mr. Drago, participated in this pathetic travesty and, like Ms. Meredith, did not have the decency ever to inform me that I was secretly being subjected to such debased, underhanded, backstabbing tactics by people claiming to be my "friends," without the slightest prior disclosure--and, indeed, hidden behind a veil of anonymity and blatant false statements in the forum response email quoted above.
The limitations of the English language make it completely impossible for me to express my contempt and revulsion at such depraved and dishonorable conduct. At all relevant times Ms. Meredith knew damned well that I would NEVER have knowingly subjected myself to any such profanation, and I believe that you knew it, too. If you didn't, you don't believe anything you've ever pretended to stand for.
Ms. Meredith has since, in a series of email, claimed stringently that she had no idea I would be subjected to any such infamous process, sending me a document of your own authorship dated 16 October 2008 entitled "APPLICATION REVISION 1" as though that document--DATED FIVE DAYS AFTER THE FACT OF MY REGISTRATION--had some sort of relevance going to "proof" that she wasn't a party to this unspeakable betrayal of my trust. But NOTHING alters the fact that sometime between 11 October and 14 October, she participated in a "vote" [SPIT!] about me, knowing full well that I had no knowledge whatsoever about any such loathsome process, and she never even had the decency to notify me that it was happening. And so did you particpate.
There is a maxim in my creed: "What you resist, you become." In this matter, you and Ms. Meredith stand as living proof.
I therefore demand that both you and Ms. Meredith forward this email at once to every single person in your covert clique who thought that they "voted" on me, that you cc: me on it, and that you issue it over your own unqualified letter of apology to me stating unequivocally that I was tricked into being dragged through your kangaroo court of anonymous "jurors," that I was subjected to trial in absentia without the slightest representation or hearing, and without even notification that I had been placed on trial--something even the Inquisition never stooped to.
Ashton Gray
Here is Mr. Drago's response:
QUOTE ('Charles Drago)
From: cdrago1@xxx.net
Subject: Re: Notice
Date: October 19, 2008 12:29:13 PM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxxxx.com
Cc: dmeredith@xxxxxxxxx.com
My Dear "Ashton Gray,"
Until and unless you choose to step out of the shadows cast by your pseudonym and demonstrate the requisite courage and common courtesy to engage in honest dialogue, I shall dismiss your communications as I would those of any other cowardly disseminator of disinformation.
Sincerely,
Charles R. Drago
Subject: Re: Notice
Date: October 19, 2008 12:29:13 PM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxxxx.com
Cc: dmeredith@xxxxxxxxx.com
My Dear "Ashton Gray,"
Until and unless you choose to step out of the shadows cast by your pseudonym and demonstrate the requisite courage and common courtesy to engage in honest dialogue, I shall dismiss your communications as I would those of any other cowardly disseminator of disinformation.
Sincerely,
Charles R. Drago
I hope you all will sleep better at night knowing that such selfless guardians of personal privacy, truth, honor, and justice are vigilantly on the job, and I hope that you will join them in their tireless efforts.
Ashton Gray
******************************************
IT WAS I, WHO VOTED YOU DOWN, Ashton!
Well I know that I would never want to be a member of a forum who would allow someone like me to be a member. - To pharaphrase Sam Clemmons - BK
QUOTE (William Kelly @ Oct 19 2008, 10:36 PM)
Well I know that I would never want to be a member of a forum who allow someone like me to be a member. - BK
*****************************************
You were voted in "YES," unanimously, Bill.
But, you never got back to us.
It's still open, and will remain open, should you change your mind.
QUOTE (William Kelly @ Oct 20 2008, 12:36 AM)
Well I know that I would never want to be a member of a forum who would allow someone like me to be a member. - To pharaphrase Sam Clemmons - BK
Bill,
I think that was Groucho Marx.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Groucho_Marx/
Down the page a bit.
Kathy
QUOTE (Kathy Beckett @ Oct 20 2008, 03:48 AM)
QUOTE (William Kelly @ Oct 20 2008, 12:36 AM)
Well I know that I would never want to be a member of a forum who would allow someone like me to be a member. - To pharaphrase Sam Clemmons - BK
Bill,
I think that was Groucho Marx.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Groucho_Marx/
Down the page a bit.
Kathy
Indeed, I did plagerize Groucho rather than Sam. I knew that I couldn't take credit for such wit.
Under the pseudonym Mark Twain he wrote:
"It is my belief that nearly any invented quotation, played with confidence, stands a good chance to deceive." - Following the Equator
And "Ficiton must stick to the possible, reality does not."
To pharaphrase another well traveled southern gentleman with literary ambitions:
I am a Groucho Marxist but not a John Lennonist.
BK
QUOTE (Terry Mauro @ Oct 19 2008, 10:53 PM)
QUOTE (Ashton Gray @ Oct 19 2008, 06:19 PM)
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Oct 17 2008, 01:30 PM)
Dear Members and Readers of the Education Forum,
I am pleased to announce the launch of the Deep Politics Forum.
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/index.php
The following is excerpted from our Mission Statement:
"The Deep Politics Forum is an online community dedicated to shining light into the shadowy reaches of historical and contemporary deep political systems and their objectives, strategies, tactics, and operatives, and understanding their social, economic, and cultural consequences.
"Our mission transcends mere academic inquiry, which we accept as an invaluable tactic in a broader strategy to wield knowledge and truth as weapons in a coordinated assault on the manipulators who operate within deep political shadows."
I am pleased to announce the launch of the Deep Politics Forum.
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/index.php
The following is excerpted from our Mission Statement:
"The Deep Politics Forum is an online community dedicated to shining light into the shadowy reaches of historical and contemporary deep political systems and their objectives, strategies, tactics, and operatives, and understanding their social, economic, and cultural consequences.
"Our mission transcends mere academic inquiry, which we accept as an invaluable tactic in a broader strategy to wield knowledge and truth as weapons in a coordinated assault on the manipulators who operate within deep political shadows."
With such a lofty mission statement, I thought it appropriate that I chronicle here my own experience with the "Deep Politics Forum" and two of its co-founders, including Mr. Drago. Below is an email I sent to Mr. Drago today on this public issue that is self-explanatory, followed by his response to me today:
QUOTE (Ashton Gray)
cc: Dawn Meredith
Dear Mr. Drago,
I am writing to bring to your attention a matter that transpired last week to which you were a party according to my best information and knowledge.
The incident had an earlier beginning, on 1 September of this year, when I received an email from Dawn Meredith titled "new forum":
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxx.com
Subject: new forum
Date: September 1, 2008 2:08:29 PM CDT
Envelope-To: ashtongray@xxxxxxx.com
those of us who left the ed forum...
any interest?
won't be moderated, except for trolling
no cia types allowed
dawn
====================================
This was followed up by Ms. Meredith on 11 inst. with the following email:
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Fw: Fw: link to our new forum:
Date: October 11, 2008 11:10:22 AM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxxx.com
When you get an opportunity take a look. We have all left the ed forum ..
Dawn
[LINK enclosed in forwarded message from Myra Bronstein]
====================================
Having just returned from a week away and being in the grip of brutal deadlines that would utterly prevent any active participation in the short term, I yet had the clear understanding that Ms. Meredith, who I long have considered a friend, was one of the founders of the forum and wanted me to register at her new forum.
I therefore immediately clicked the supplied link and went through the registration process, and received an email from the Deep Politics forum which said in pertinent part (emphasis added):
"Before we can activate your account ONE LAST STEP must be taken to complete your registration. Please note - you must complete this LAST STEP to become a registered member. You will ONLY NEED TO VISIT THIS URL ONCE TO ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT."
As I'm sure you must know quite thoroughly by now, the message from your forum was a damned lie.
My account was not activated. Instead, three days later I received another email from Ms. Meredith which said in pertinent part:
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: link to our new forum:
Date: October 14, 2008 7:38:45 AM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxx.com
...Best I can tell re forum somefolks voted against you. It's private. Of course I voted for you. ...
====================================
It's my best knowledge and information that you, too, Mr. Drago, participated in this pathetic travesty and, like Ms. Meredith, did not have the decency ever to inform me that I was secretly being subjected to such debased, underhanded, backstabbing tactics by people claiming to be my "friends," without the slightest prior disclosure--and, indeed, hidden behind a veil of anonymity and blatant false statements in the forum response email quoted above.
The limitations of the English language make it completely impossible for me to express my contempt and revulsion at such depraved and dishonorable conduct. At all relevant times Ms. Meredith knew damned well that I would NEVER have knowingly subjected myself to any such profanation, and I believe that you knew it, too. If you didn't, you don't believe anything you've ever pretended to stand for.
Ms. Meredith has since, in a series of email, claimed stringently that she had no idea I would be subjected to any such infamous process, sending me a document of your own authorship dated 16 October 2008 entitled "APPLICATION REVISION 1" as though that document--DATED FIVE DAYS AFTER THE FACT OF MY REGISTRATION--had some sort of relevance going to "proof" that she wasn't a party to this unspeakable betrayal of my trust. But NOTHING alters the fact that sometime between 11 October and 14 October, she participated in a "vote" [SPIT!] about me, knowing full well that I had no knowledge whatsoever about any such loathsome process, and she never even had the decency to notify me that it was happening. And so did you particpate.
There is a maxim in my creed: "What you resist, you become." In this matter, you and Ms. Meredith stand as living proof.
I therefore demand that both you and Ms. Meredith forward this email at once to every single person in your covert clique who thought that they "voted" on me, that you cc: me on it, and that you issue it over your own unqualified letter of apology to me stating unequivocally that I was tricked into being dragged through your kangaroo court of anonymous "jurors," that I was subjected to trial in absentia without the slightest representation or hearing, and without even notification that I had been placed on trial--something even the Inquisition never stooped to.
Ashton Gray
Dear Mr. Drago,
I am writing to bring to your attention a matter that transpired last week to which you were a party according to my best information and knowledge.
The incident had an earlier beginning, on 1 September of this year, when I received an email from Dawn Meredith titled "new forum":
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxx.com
Subject: new forum
Date: September 1, 2008 2:08:29 PM CDT
Envelope-To: ashtongray@xxxxxxx.com
those of us who left the ed forum...
any interest?
won't be moderated, except for trolling
no cia types allowed
dawn
====================================
This was followed up by Ms. Meredith on 11 inst. with the following email:
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Fw: Fw: link to our new forum:
Date: October 11, 2008 11:10:22 AM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxxx.com
When you get an opportunity take a look. We have all left the ed forum ..
Dawn
[LINK enclosed in forwarded message from Myra Bronstein]
====================================
Having just returned from a week away and being in the grip of brutal deadlines that would utterly prevent any active participation in the short term, I yet had the clear understanding that Ms. Meredith, who I long have considered a friend, was one of the founders of the forum and wanted me to register at her new forum.
I therefore immediately clicked the supplied link and went through the registration process, and received an email from the Deep Politics forum which said in pertinent part (emphasis added):
"Before we can activate your account ONE LAST STEP must be taken to complete your registration. Please note - you must complete this LAST STEP to become a registered member. You will ONLY NEED TO VISIT THIS URL ONCE TO ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT."
As I'm sure you must know quite thoroughly by now, the message from your forum was a damned lie.
My account was not activated. Instead, three days later I received another email from Ms. Meredith which said in pertinent part:
====================================
From: dmeredith@xxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: link to our new forum:
Date: October 14, 2008 7:38:45 AM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxx.com
...Best I can tell re forum somefolks voted against you. It's private. Of course I voted for you. ...
====================================
It's my best knowledge and information that you, too, Mr. Drago, participated in this pathetic travesty and, like Ms. Meredith, did not have the decency ever to inform me that I was secretly being subjected to such debased, underhanded, backstabbing tactics by people claiming to be my "friends," without the slightest prior disclosure--and, indeed, hidden behind a veil of anonymity and blatant false statements in the forum response email quoted above.
The limitations of the English language make it completely impossible for me to express my contempt and revulsion at such depraved and dishonorable conduct. At all relevant times Ms. Meredith knew damned well that I would NEVER have knowingly subjected myself to any such profanation, and I believe that you knew it, too. If you didn't, you don't believe anything you've ever pretended to stand for.
Ms. Meredith has since, in a series of email, claimed stringently that she had no idea I would be subjected to any such infamous process, sending me a document of your own authorship dated 16 October 2008 entitled "APPLICATION REVISION 1" as though that document--DATED FIVE DAYS AFTER THE FACT OF MY REGISTRATION--had some sort of relevance going to "proof" that she wasn't a party to this unspeakable betrayal of my trust. But NOTHING alters the fact that sometime between 11 October and 14 October, she participated in a "vote" [SPIT!] about me, knowing full well that I had no knowledge whatsoever about any such loathsome process, and she never even had the decency to notify me that it was happening. And so did you particpate.
There is a maxim in my creed: "What you resist, you become." In this matter, you and Ms. Meredith stand as living proof.
I therefore demand that both you and Ms. Meredith forward this email at once to every single person in your covert clique who thought that they "voted" on me, that you cc: me on it, and that you issue it over your own unqualified letter of apology to me stating unequivocally that I was tricked into being dragged through your kangaroo court of anonymous "jurors," that I was subjected to trial in absentia without the slightest representation or hearing, and without even notification that I had been placed on trial--something even the Inquisition never stooped to.
Ashton Gray
Here is Mr. Drago's response:
QUOTE ('Charles Drago)
From: cdrago1@xxx.net
Subject: Re: Notice
Date: October 19, 2008 12:29:13 PM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxxxx.com
Cc: dmeredith@xxxxxxxxx.com
My Dear "Ashton Gray,"
Until and unless you choose to step out of the shadows cast by your pseudonym and demonstrate the requisite courage and common courtesy to engage in honest dialogue, I shall dismiss your communications as I would those of any other cowardly disseminator of disinformation.
Sincerely,
Charles R. Drago
Subject: Re: Notice
Date: October 19, 2008 12:29:13 PM CDT
To: ashtongray@xxxxxxx.com
Cc: dmeredith@xxxxxxxxx.com
My Dear "Ashton Gray,"
Until and unless you choose to step out of the shadows cast by your pseudonym and demonstrate the requisite courage and common courtesy to engage in honest dialogue, I shall dismiss your communications as I would those of any other cowardly disseminator of disinformation.
Sincerely,
Charles R. Drago
I hope you all will sleep better at night knowing that such selfless guardians of personal privacy, truth, honor, and justice are vigilantly on the job, and I hope that you will join them in their tireless efforts.
Ashton Gray
******************************************
IT WAS I, WHO VOTED YOU DOWN, Ashton!
Even if you voted Ashton onto the Deep Politics Forum he would not have lasted long. It would only be a matter of time before Ashton asked one of the members a difficult question. Like the Soviet Communist Party, you cannot afford the dominant ideology to be questioned.
QUOTE (John Simkin @ Oct 20 2008, 04:59 AM)
Even if you voted Ashton onto the Deep Politics Forum he would not have lasted long. It would only be a matter of time before Ashton asked one of the members a difficult question. Like the Soviet Communist Party, you cannot afford the dominant ideology to be questioned.
Dear John,
You have disappointed me gravely by posting a pronouncement which, in its ignorance of the facts, mindless vituperation, and overall appeal to lowest common denominator "ideas" and emotions, is worthy of the McCain-Palin hate machine.
It gives me no pleasure to note that you have echoed the sentiments of the likes of "Colby," Burton, and "Gray."
Judge a man by the company he keeps.
I speak for my fellow co-founders of the DPF when I inform you, sir, that "difficult" questions which challenge our individual and, in certain cases, shared opinions on deep political issues are not only welcome on our forum, but highly encouraged.
Yet unless you are prepared to argue that "historical truth" is an oxymoron, you are otherwise sufficiently well-equipped in terms of intellect in general and understanding of the deep political milieu in particular to understand that, in certain instances, the endless posings of long-answered questions support the agendas of those you should be sworn to defeat.
Just one example of many: As a matter of policy and principle, we at the DPF will not extend collegial treatment or otherwise offer respect to proponents of the so-called "lone nut" JFK assassination lie -- which is to say, liars. Again I must remind you: Anyone with reasonable access to the JFK evidence who does not conclude that conspirators killed the president is cognitively impaired and/or complicit in the crime.
We are, however, honor-bound to explain the historical truth of JFK conspiracy to those who honestly ask for assistance in their efforts to gain reasonable access to the evidence.
These distinctions are not subtle, sir. I cannot believe you are incapable of understanding them.
So I am left to conclude that your absurd, unfounded charge leveled against me and my fellow co-founders of the DPF serves another agenda.
Fear not, John Simkin. There are plenty of rooms in the Internet mansion to house efforts such as the EF and DPF. Ours is in the left wing, so we can't even see your quarters from here.
Rest easy, sir. The DPF will not accept advertising, so we pose no threat to the EF's financial bottom line.
Stand down, old sentinel. The DPF will not publish the sort of mindless, unjustified, utterly venal attack on the EF that you have published about us.
In closing, I might note that as a matter of policy the Deep Politics Forum will not publish pseudonymous posts. On this basis alone, "Ashton Gray" is disqualified from membership.
So then ... It's back to the Politburo for me. Here's hoping it's back to reality for you.
Charles R. Drago
PS -- In my original DPF announcement, I warranted that, out of recognition of the finite and costly nature of website bandwidth, I would not respond to comments posted in response. I had not the slightest intention of dignifying your previously mentioned cohorts by acknowledging their waste products. Perhaps you were emboldened by the chance to attack an enemy sworn not to counter-attack. If so, yours was an act of intellectual cowardice worthy of your forum's co-owner.
And it backfired.
CRD
QUOTE (John Simkin @ Oct 20 2008, 09:59 AM)
Like the Soviet Communist Party, you cannot afford the dominant ideology to be questioned.
Come off it, John.
What a joy it is to be savaged by an intellectual pygmy of Charles Drago's measure.
Given his and his friends history of desperately trying to get alternative views on this forum silenced and banned I have no doubt that John's analogy, (which has caused the most recent venting of the Drago spleen), is indeed apt.
As I say I wish him well with his new venture and believe that he will have many happy months agreeing with people that already share his views.
However if he could now do us the courtesy of being so kind as to bugger off from here it would be greatly appreciated.
Given his and his friends history of desperately trying to get alternative views on this forum silenced and banned I have no doubt that John's analogy, (which has caused the most recent venting of the Drago spleen), is indeed apt.
As I say I wish him well with his new venture and believe that he will have many happy months agreeing with people that already share his views.
However if he could now do us the courtesy of being so kind as to bugger off from here it would be greatly appreciated.
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Oct 20 2008, 03:29 PM)
What a joy it is to be savaged by an intellectual pygmy of Charles Drago's measure.
Given his and his friends history of desperately trying to get alternative views on this forum silenced and banned I have no doubt that John's analogy, (which has caused the most recent venting of the Drago spleen), is indeed apt.
As I say I wish him well with his new venture and believe that he will have many happy months agreeing with people that already share his views.
However if he could now do us the courtesy of being so kind as to bugger off from here it would be greatly appreciated.
Given his and his friends history of desperately trying to get alternative views on this forum silenced and banned I have no doubt that John's analogy, (which has caused the most recent venting of the Drago spleen), is indeed apt.
As I say I wish him well with his new venture and believe that he will have many happy months agreeing with people that already share his views.
However if he could now do us the courtesy of being so kind as to bugger off from here it would be greatly appreciated.
Buggering, sir!
P.S. -- That's "people who" already share my views.
Drago's Drivel - A Reader's Guide:
“I invite all members and readers of the Education Forum to visit the DPF and apply for membership”
Quite insincere since the Deep BS Forum was found explicitly to exclude members of this forum not to the founders’ liking. So Evan, Ashton, Craig, I and others are invited to joined only to be rejected.
“NOTE: It is not our intention to take up valuable bandwidth on any other Internet venture. Accordingly, all questions and comments regarding the Deep Politics Forum should be sent directly to our website and will not be addressed here.”
More insincerity since the obvious intent was to draw traffic from this forum to his.
“won't be moderated, except for trolling”
Hopelessly vague, intentionally I imagine. I.E. “everything” is allowed except for what the moderator’s arbitrarily define as "trolling". Given Mr. Drago’s record of urging dissenting viewpoints from being stamped out on some else’s forum (i.e. John and Andy’s) John’s prognosis of Stalinist moderation is most probably correct.
“I speak for my fellow co-founders of the DPF when I inform you, sir, that "difficult" questions which challenge our individual and, in certain cases, shared opinions on deep political issues are not only welcome on our forum, but highly encouraged.”
As per your record noted above calling for ostracizing those with differing viewpoints this is obvious BS. The actual creed of the forum seems to be “Differing ‘opinions on deep political issues are not only welcome on our forum, but highly encouraged’ as long as they don’t differ too much from those of the founders. I guess you could call it semi-free speech.
From the forum’s rules:
"2. This forum champions free speech. In this regard, its founders’ role models include Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, and certain framers of the United States Constitution. The use of profanity is acceptable when artistically rendered and contextualized within larger expositions of thought – which is to say, when such usage is not gratuitous. You may offend those sensibilities you deem to be in dire need of being offended – but you also must present a cogent and compelling argument in justification for doing so."
Bizarre the concept of free speech seems limited to the use of “profanity”. I.E> you can type “fu(k” without replacing any of the letter as long as your POV is equal or similar to those of the founders but polite heresy is not protected.
"Just one example of many: As a matter of policy and principle, we at the DPF will not extend collegial treatment or otherwise offer respect to proponents of the so-called "lone nut" JFK assassination lie"
Not that I back the LNT (I don’t) but so much for being a forum that “champions free speech” where “"difficult" questions which challenge our individual and, in certain cases, shared opinions on deep political issues are not only welcome… but highly encouraged.”
“PS -- In my original DPF announcement, I warranted that, out of recognition of the finite and costly nature of website bandwidth, I would not respond to comments posted in response. I had not the slightest intention of dignifying your previously mentioned cohorts by acknowledging their waste products. Perhaps you were emboldened by the chance to attack an enemy sworn not to counter-attack. If so, yours was an act of intellectual cowardice worthy of your forum's co-owner.”
What remarkably ass backward logic. Since Drago said he wouldn’t reply here, anyone critical of his forum or his spamming plugs for it here should refrain from commenting on these threads. The faux preoccupation with bandwidth is ludicrous since the intent was to divert traffic..
“I invite all members and readers of the Education Forum to visit the DPF and apply for membership”
Quite insincere since the Deep BS Forum was found explicitly to exclude members of this forum not to the founders’ liking. So Evan, Ashton, Craig, I and others are invited to joined only to be rejected.
“NOTE: It is not our intention to take up valuable bandwidth on any other Internet venture. Accordingly, all questions and comments regarding the Deep Politics Forum should be sent directly to our website and will not be addressed here.”
More insincerity since the obvious intent was to draw traffic from this forum to his.
“won't be moderated, except for trolling”
Hopelessly vague, intentionally I imagine. I.E. “everything” is allowed except for what the moderator’s arbitrarily define as "trolling". Given Mr. Drago’s record of urging dissenting viewpoints from being stamped out on some else’s forum (i.e. John and Andy’s) John’s prognosis of Stalinist moderation is most probably correct.
“I speak for my fellow co-founders of the DPF when I inform you, sir, that "difficult" questions which challenge our individual and, in certain cases, shared opinions on deep political issues are not only welcome on our forum, but highly encouraged.”
As per your record noted above calling for ostracizing those with differing viewpoints this is obvious BS. The actual creed of the forum seems to be “Differing ‘opinions on deep political issues are not only welcome on our forum, but highly encouraged’ as long as they don’t differ too much from those of the founders. I guess you could call it semi-free speech.
From the forum’s rules:
"2. This forum champions free speech. In this regard, its founders’ role models include Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, and certain framers of the United States Constitution. The use of profanity is acceptable when artistically rendered and contextualized within larger expositions of thought – which is to say, when such usage is not gratuitous. You may offend those sensibilities you deem to be in dire need of being offended – but you also must present a cogent and compelling argument in justification for doing so."
Bizarre the concept of free speech seems limited to the use of “profanity”. I.E> you can type “fu(k” without replacing any of the letter as long as your POV is equal or similar to those of the founders but polite heresy is not protected.
"Just one example of many: As a matter of policy and principle, we at the DPF will not extend collegial treatment or otherwise offer respect to proponents of the so-called "lone nut" JFK assassination lie"
Not that I back the LNT (I don’t) but so much for being a forum that “champions free speech” where “"difficult" questions which challenge our individual and, in certain cases, shared opinions on deep political issues are not only welcome… but highly encouraged.”
“PS -- In my original DPF announcement, I warranted that, out of recognition of the finite and costly nature of website bandwidth, I would not respond to comments posted in response. I had not the slightest intention of dignifying your previously mentioned cohorts by acknowledging their waste products. Perhaps you were emboldened by the chance to attack an enemy sworn not to counter-attack. If so, yours was an act of intellectual cowardice worthy of your forum's co-owner.”
What remarkably ass backward logic. Since Drago said he wouldn’t reply here, anyone critical of his forum or his spamming plugs for it here should refrain from commenting on these threads. The faux preoccupation with bandwidth is ludicrous since the intent was to divert traffic..
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Oct 20 2008, 04:43 PM)
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Oct 20 2008, 03:29 PM)
What a joy it is to be savaged by an intellectual pygmy of Charles Drago's measure.
Given his and his friends history of desperately trying to get alternative views on this forum silenced and banned I have no doubt that John's analogy, (which has caused the most recent venting of the Drago spleen), is indeed apt.
As I say I wish him well with his new venture and believe that he will have many happy months agreeing with people that already share his views.
However if he could now do us the courtesy of being so kind as to bugger off from here it would be greatly appreciated.
Given his and his friends history of desperately trying to get alternative views on this forum silenced and banned I have no doubt that John's analogy, (which has caused the most recent venting of the Drago spleen), is indeed apt.
As I say I wish him well with his new venture and believe that he will have many happy months agreeing with people that already share his views.
However if he could now do us the courtesy of being so kind as to bugger off from here it would be greatly appreciated.
Buggering, sir!
"Bugger off" and "buggering" are not the same thing of course since if one person is buggering another they are not able to "bugger off" till they finish.
QUOTE
P.S. -- That's "people who" already share my views.
The only thing worse than a "grammar cop" is a "grammar cop" who is wrong. Since the relative clause in Andy's sentence wasn't dependent 'who' or 'that' were equally acceptable.
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Oct 20 2008, 08:43 PM)
P.S. -- That's "people who" already share my views.
That's very clear from a cursory glance at your assembled members. I am sure that you will have a great deal of fun.
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Oct 20 2008, 10:28 AM)
Judge a man by the company he keeps.
Quite true John and Andy, to their credit, choose to allow those with greatly differing view points to join their forum, they even allow members to insult them. The only restrictions they make are against the use of profanity, personal attacks (especially the use of the word liar) and though not stated, I imagine racism. Your forum only allows those with the same general POV but permits people to use “four letter words” leading to claims of being champions of “free speech”. They however truly practice what you only pay lip service to.
QUOTE (Terry Mauro @ Oct 19 2008, 04:53 PM)
IT WAS I, WHO VOTED YOU DOWN, Ashton!
I think this might finally serve as proof that there is a just and loving God.
Ashton Gray
This thread is surreal.
QUOTE (Pat Speer @ Oct 21 2008, 11:45 PM)
This thread is surreal.
Responses to this thread are amazingly nasty. I don't know the details [have heard the outline] of what went on when I was 'away' and in the USA (unable to stay in contact with the Forum) late summer - but....
Ashton, I don't see how you feel it needed to put up publicly, private emails.
John and Andy, I really find the level of anger and odium inappropriate and makes the whole of the Forum less welcoming - to me and I'm sure others - whatever went on.
Meanwhile two members who most gleefully saw some others' removal [one who actively participated in it] are allowed, unchallenged, to vent their predjudices which I suspect played into the very series of events.
Sick stuff. I think Charles had every right to annonce the other Forum and did so politely and with some sensitivity to this Forum. I participate in both - and yet other Forums. Not one size fits all. Peace.
QUOTE (Peter Lemkin @ Oct 22 2008, 08:04 AM)
John and Andy, I really find the level of anger and odium inappropriate and makes the whole of the Forum less welcoming - to me and I'm sure others - whatever went on....Peace.
Why do you describe my response as angry? The fact that I allow Charles and his friends to promote his forum after leaving us because they did not like me giving people like Craig and Len, freedom of speech, suggests that I am not angry at all. In fact it has given me (and my moderators) a great deal of "peace" as we do not have to spend so much time trying to control their offensive behaviour.
QUOTE (Peter Lemkin @ Oct 22 2008, 04:04 AM)
QUOTE (Pat Speer @ Oct 21 2008, 11:45 PM)
This thread is surreal.
Responses to this thread are amazingly nasty. I don't know the details [have heard the outline] of what went on when I was 'away' and in the USA (unable to stay in contact with the Forum) late summer - but....
Ashton, I don't see how you feel it needed to put up publicly, private emails.
LOL more hypocrisy on the “private e-mail” issue from the person who posted private e-mails from Eva Kor and others without their permission.
I don’t see why this thread should have caused anyone but Drago discomfort. He is the one preaching, but not practicing, free speech.
As for 'nasty' behavior and unreasonable anger that best applies to the folks who stacked off this forum to start the DPF. This is easily confired by a even a cursory glance at their posts from the period of their departure they acted like children.
I have now heard the grandest of all conspiracy theories - that John Simkin is right wing.
Welcome, amigo.
Welcome, amigo.
QUOTE (John Simkin @ Oct 22 2008, 11:01 AM)
QUOTE (Peter Lemkin @ Oct 22 2008, 08:04 AM)
John and Andy, I really find the level of anger and odium inappropriate and makes the whole of the Forum less welcoming - to me and I'm sure others - whatever went on....Peace.
Why do you describe my response as angry? The fact that I allow Charles and his friends to promote his forum after leaving us because they did not like me giving people like Craig and Len, freedom of speech, suggests that I am not angry at all. In fact it has given me (and my moderators) a great deal of "peace" as we do not have to spend so much time trying to control their offensive behaviour.
I don't want to revive the melee, but see that some of those who were shown the door are now deprived of their 'freedom of speech' on the Forum. I find it quite odd (in the sense of statistical odds) that primarily progressive to radical veiwpoints have been silenced - whatever the jusification. John, I know you don't share the viewpoints of some you have defended and I do believe in allowing all viewpoints. That said, some felt that some have more of an agenda than another viewpoint - more in the vein of being a provocation to discredit the Forum and those in and mentioned in it. Also of note, is that a moderator was noted by several to have had a penchant for monitoring only those on the more progressive side and was quick to pounce. Moderators, while they save the Administration much grief, need to be non-partisan and even-handed. I think the Forum has bent over backwards to allow some voices/viewpoints that are not much heard here (and that is to be applauded and allowed), but some very high quality persons were shown the door for what I think were rather trivial abrogations of the 'rules' or selective prosecution, as others have been allowed to remain for similar rule violations, at other times. The difference seems (to me) to be how vociferously they criticized the Admin. and mods in the act of defending themselves. Human, human, all too human. I've said my piece, and am sad and disapointed that what happened happened. I wonder had I been here then if I'd still be here......a good chance not. Again, can't we all just get along? I hope those 'shown the door' would be considered for re-admission, should they want (some might; some I'm sure wouldnt ever step foot here again). I've never been in favor of 'death sentences'. I find merit with the new DP Forum and yet with this one, though I don't find it as 'warm and fuzzy' - nor as active - as it once felt. Some who weren't shown the door have stopped posting here, or now post much less - and IMO many good people were lost in the battle. I belong to other Forums, as well. I wish all the Forums well, and only wish more out in cyberland and the realworld would participate more in such - rather than just accepting unchallenged the mainstream 'history' and 'news' they are fed [like geese being prepaired for fois gras]. Nameste. Peace. I'm willing to let this 'drop' here. Sorry to put salt in old wounds, but it was not me to start that - look at who cast the first stones above.....!
QUOTE (Peter Lemkin @ Oct 26 2008, 06:50 AM)
QUOTE (John Simkin @ Oct 22 2008, 11:01 AM)
QUOTE (Peter Lemkin @ Oct 22 2008, 08:04 AM)
John and Andy, I really find the level of anger and odium inappropriate and makes the whole of the Forum less welcoming - to me and I'm sure others - whatever went on....Peace.
Why do you describe my response as angry? The fact that I allow Charles and his friends to promote his forum after leaving us because they did not like me giving people like Craig and Len, freedom of speech, suggests that I am not angry at all. In fact it has given me (and my moderators) a great deal of "peace" as we do not have to spend so much time trying to control their offensive behaviour.
I don't want to revive the melee, but see that some of those who were shown the door are now deprived of their 'freedom of speech' on the Forum. I find it quite odd (in the sense of statistical odds) that primarily progressive to radical veiwpoints have been silenced - whatever the jusification. John, I know you don't share the viewpoints of some you have defended and I do believe in allowing all viewpoints. That said, some felt that some have more of an agenda than another viewpoint - more in the vein of being a provocation to discredit the Forum and those in and mentioned in it. Also of note, is that a moderator was noted by several to have had a penchant for monitoring only those on the more progressive side and was quick to pounce. Moderators, while they save the Administration much grief, need to be non-partisan and even-handed. I think the Forum has bent over backwards to allow some voices/viewpoints that are not much heard here (and that is to be applauded and allowed), but some very high quality persons were shown the door for what I think were rather trivial abrogations of the 'rules' or selective prosecution, as others have been allowed to remain for similar rule violations, at other times. The difference seems (to me) to be how vociferously they criticized the Admin. and mods in the act of defending themselves. Human, human, all too human. I've said my piece, and am sad and disapointed that what happened happened. I wonder had I been here then if I'd still be here......a good chance not. Again, can't we all just get along? I hope those 'shown the door' would be considered for re-admission, should they want (some might; some I'm sure wouldnt ever step foot here again). I've never been in favor of 'death sentences'. I find merit with the new DP Forum and yet with this one, though I don't find it as 'warm and fuzzy' - nor as active - as it once felt. Some who weren't shown the door have stopped posting here, or now post much less - and IMO many good people were lost in the battle. I belong to other Forums, as well. I wish all the Forums well, and only wish more out in cyberland and the realworld would participate more in such - rather than just accepting unchallenged the mainstream 'history' and 'news' they are fed [like geese being prepaired for fois gras]. Nameste. Peace. I'm willing to let this 'drop' here. Sorry to put salt in old wounds, but it was not me to start that - look at who cast the first stones above.....!
It is not true that I have booted anybody off the forum. Some members of the Deep Politics Forum asked me to delete their membership. In fact, Jan asked me to remove all evidence that he had never been a member of this forum. No doubt, some are now having second thoughts and want to come back and publicize the forum. Charles Drago said he would not post anymore but changed his mind when he realised he could use his membership to promote his forum on our forum.
It is not true what you say about the moderators. I have full confidence in the way they deal with difficult members.
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Oct 21 2008, 12:28 AM)
It gives me no pleasure to note that you have echoed the sentiments of the likes of "Colby," Burton, and "Gray."
I feel honoured to be rejected by the likes of Mr Drago, and chuffed to be in the company of Len and Ashton.
"No CIA types allowed" = If you disagree, you're not wanted here.
It's not the Deep Politics Forum, it's the Deep S**t Forum.
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Oct 21 2008, 12:28 AM)
In closing, I might note that as a matter of policy the Deep Politics Forum will not publish pseudonymous posts. On this basis alone, "Ashton Gray" is disqualified from membership.
And they don't even know their own rules:
QUOTE
7. You have the ability, as you register, to choose your username. We strongly discourage the use of pseudonyms, aliases, and other names chosen to hide your identity. Use of a pseudonym or alias must be approved by forum owners.
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58
So you have the ability to choose a username, an alias is discouraged and must be approved, and as a matter of policy will not be approved. What hypocrites.
"You will be given a fair trial and then shot"
Len,
A correction to your post: I have never applied to join the Deep Politics forum. Even as a mere member, subject to the whims and judgments of their own moderators, they fear open debate and thus I believe they would not allow me to join there - even though they have ability to censor me at will. I believe it would too openly display their hypocrisy.
A correction to your post: I have never applied to join the Deep Politics forum. Even as a mere member, subject to the whims and judgments of their own moderators, they fear open debate and thus I believe they would not allow me to join there - even though they have ability to censor me at will. I believe it would too openly display their hypocrisy.
QUOTE (Evan Burton @ Oct 26 2008, 05:45 AM)
Len,
A correction to your post: I have never applied to join the Deep Politics forum. Even as a mere member, subject to the whims and judgments of their own moderators, they fear open debate and thus I believe they would not allow me to join there - even though they have ability to censor me at will. I believe it would too openly display their hypocrisy.
A correction to your post: I have never applied to join the Deep Politics forum. Even as a mere member, subject to the whims and judgments of their own moderators, they fear open debate and thus I believe they would not allow me to join there - even though they have ability to censor me at will. I believe it would too openly display their hypocrisy.
Perhaps I was unclear, I didn't apply either but since the Deep BS Forum was set up specifically to exclude us obviously we would not have been accepted if he had. I doubt Craig applied but obviously he wouldn't have been accepted either. Supposedly they offered David Greer membership but I assume that was to be the "token heretic" because he is ever the gentleman and never seems to reply in kind to insults. I wonder however if he really would have been admitted or how long he'd last if he challenged the prevailing POV.
I have nothing against closed forums. What I object to are ones that claim to stand for free speech but only believe in free speech for people who agree with them.
Okay Len, it's just that I did not read it that way.
By the way, it should be noted that - as far as myself and the company I keep is concerned - the Deep Politics forum commenced the sniping.
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sh...amp;postcount=6
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sh...amp;postcount=3
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sh...amp;postcount=4
This was all said before I even knew the existence of their forum. That's all I have to say of their forum. Their hypocrisy has been well noted.
By the way, it should be noted that - as far as myself and the company I keep is concerned - the Deep Politics forum commenced the sniping.
QUOTE ("Dawn Meredith - 7 OCT 08")
The Colby faction just drove people away. For me the last straw, of many, was the insult by Andy Walker. He took a notice all of a sudden and began monitering and responding to posts. This on top of Evan Burton ....who made bad calls on a regular basis.
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sh...amp;postcount=6
QUOTE ("Jack White - 2 OCT 08")
Have you noticed that Burton has abandoned ship on the Simkin boat? Has originated no messages in more than a month. I guess his employers considered his mission complete. Same with all the others except Brazil and Miller.
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sh...amp;postcount=3
QUOTE ("Jan Klimkowski - 2 OCT 08")
If Paraguay wasn't landlocked, I'd be wondering if Commander Burton was preparing to sail the Bush family to their 100,000-acre South American bolthole.
For the record, I'm very sad that the likes of Burton and "Colby/Brazil" were allowed to destroy important threads on the Education Forum: it didn't have to be that way.
For the record, I'm very sad that the likes of Burton and "Colby/Brazil" were allowed to destroy important threads on the Education Forum: it didn't have to be that way.
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sh...amp;postcount=4
This was all said before I even knew the existence of their forum. That's all I have to say of their forum. Their hypocrisy has been well noted.
Just amazing how fast and how much this thread was hijacked.
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
Len, have you considered the tobacco industry? I hear there are fortunes to be made.
Justa thought.
In solidarity,
Dawn
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
Len, have you considered the tobacco industry? I hear there are fortunes to be made.
Justa thought.
In solidarity,
Dawn
QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Feb 25 2009, 02:50 PM)
Just amazing how fast and how much this thread was hijacked.
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
AFAIK none of the founders of the DPF were banned, but left of their own volition. Like the rest of them you have difficulty getting your facts straight
QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Feb 25 2009, 06:50 PM)
Just amazing how fast and how much this thread was hijacked.
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
Dawn
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
Dawn
Arrant nonsense - none of you, despite your best efforts, were banned.
I was not banned, but merely suspended. And I'm proud to note that I'm likely the most irritating of the many burrs under Sherrif Walker's greasy saddle.
But what about David Guyatt?
But what about David Guyatt?
QUOTE (Len Colby @ Feb 25 2009, 12:02 PM)
QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Feb 25 2009, 02:50 PM)
Just amazing how fast and how much this thread was hijacked.
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
AFAIK none of the founders of the DPF were banned, but left of their own volition. Like the rest of them you have difficulty getting your facts straight
my-o-my, ol' Len knows a lot concerning the inner workings of this here Ed forum doesn't he... Getting facts straight, hmmm? Doesn't that rely on some sort of interpretation of said facts? And doesn't that lead the one doing the interrupting of said facts to conclude: here we are again, personal *opinion* concerning said facts?
and fwiw keeping to the thread topic -- there are but few JFK assassination researchers (narrowly defined subject specialists) left on this forum. (I understand, initially, we were invited here to get the numbers (aka *hits*) up. Which is fine. But lets be realistic, what's left here, after 5 years, are data gatherers and disinfo specialists.
Best internet based "political" (local/regional/world) researchers by far, are located at the Deep Politics Forum. (unlike me, all can pen quite a few back-to-back paragraphs)
I'm still trying to figure out who, and what function the dude with the bow-tie provides (if anything) around here? He the money guy? Or is that Bill Miller?
QUOTE (Len Colby @ Feb 25 2009, 10:02 PM)
QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Feb 25 2009, 02:50 PM)
Just amazing how fast and how much this thread was hijacked.
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
AFAIK none of the founders of the DPF were banned, but left of their own volition. Like the rest of them you have difficulty getting your facts straight
"smoke, smoke, smoke that cigarette..."
QUOTE (David G. Healy @ Feb 26 2009, 01:38 AM)
QUOTE (Len Colby @ Feb 25 2009, 12:02 PM)
QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Feb 25 2009, 02:50 PM)
Just amazing how fast and how much this thread was hijacked.
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
AFAIK none of the founders of the DPF were banned, but left of their own volition. Like the rest of them you have difficulty getting your facts straight
my-o-my, ol' Len knows a lot concerning the inner workings of this here Ed forum doesn't he... Getting facts straight, hmmm? Doesn't that rely on some sort of interpretation of said facts? And doesn't that lead the one doing the interrupting of said facts to conclude: here we are again, personal *opinion* concerning said facts?
and fwiw keeping to the thread topic -- there are but few JFK assassination researchers (narrowly defined subject specialists) left on this forum. (I understand, initially, we were invited here to get the numbers (aka *hits*) up. Which is fine. But lets be realistic, what's left here, after 5 years, are data gatherers and disinfo specialists.
Best internet based "political" (local/regional/world) researchers by far, are located at the Deep Politics Forum. (unlike me, all can pen quite a few back-to-back paragraphs)
I'm still trying to figure out who, and what function the dude with the bow-tie provides (if anything) around here? He the money guy? Or is that Bill Miller?
omg, this is the best post i have read here in so long. lmao.
(ok andy, i'll leave now)
dawn
QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Feb 26 2009, 04:28 AM)
QUOTE (David G. Healy @ Feb 26 2009, 01:38 AM)
QUOTE (Len Colby @ Feb 25 2009, 12:02 PM)
QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Feb 25 2009, 02:50 PM)
Just amazing how fast and how much this thread was hijacked.
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
Many of those who left this forum did so because they were BANNED.
AFAIK none of the founders of the DPF were banned, but left of their own volition. Like the rest of them you have difficulty getting your facts straight
my-o-my, ol' Len knows a lot concerning the inner workings of this here Ed forum doesn't he... Getting facts straight, hmmm? Doesn't that rely on some sort of interpretation of said facts? And doesn't that lead the one doing the interrupting of said facts to conclude: here we are again, personal *opinion* concerning said facts?
and fwiw keeping to the thread topic -- there are but few JFK assassination researchers (narrowly defined subject specialists) left on this forum. (I understand, initially, we were invited here to get the numbers (aka *hits*) up. Which is fine. But lets be realistic, what's left here, after 5 years, are data gatherers and disinfo specialists.
Best internet based "political" (local/regional/world) researchers by far, are located at the Deep Politics Forum. (unlike me, all can pen quite a few back-to-back paragraphs)
I'm still trying to figure out who, and what function the dude with the bow-tie provides (if anything) around here? He the money guy? Or is that Bill Miller?
omg, this is the best post i have read here in so long. lmao.
(ok andy, i'll leave now)
dawn
It's a boffo post. It's so funny it brought me back from the dust bin of history just to say:
LOL!!!
"Puff puff puff and if you smoke yourself to death..."
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 25 2009, 11:22 PM)
But what about David Guyatt?
He seems to have gone - probably not to a better place.
I have no information regarding the circumstances of his departure. You will have to quizz another.
Maybe if one keeps spinning around in wizened circles this is what happens - gives one hope for Charles does it not?
In all [or some] fairness to Andy [the guy in the bowtie] his posts are most sane, enlightening, normal and germain in the 'rest' [other part where few here dare to venture] of the Forum. He seems to transform when he enters the 'Magic Theatre - Not For Everyone' (Damian, Hess) of the 'Conspiracy' Section. Maybe it is the moonlight.
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 25 2009, 11:22 PM)
I was not banned, but merely suspended. And I'm proud to note that I'm likely the most irritating of the many burrs under Sherrif Walker's greasy saddle.
Self Knowledge at last
You are indeed a minor pain in the posterior Charles.
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Feb 26 2009, 10:17 AM)
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 25 2009, 11:22 PM)
But what about David Guyatt?
He seems to have gone - probably not to a better place.
I have no information regarding the circumstances of his departure. You will have to quizz another.
Maybe if one keeps spinning around in wizened circles this is what happens - gives one hope for Charles does it not?
Then how did he get set to "guest" if he was not banned? And he SAYS he was banned, so I believe that settles it.
And if I remember clearly Magda was banned too. But who's counting?
Dawn
"What's your name, who's your daddy?"
QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Feb 26 2009, 02:17 PM)
Then how did he get set to "guest" if he was not banned? And he SAYS he was banned, so I believe that settles it.
And if I remember clearly Magda was banned too. But who's counting?
Dawn
"What's your name, who's your daddy?"
And if I remember clearly Magda was banned too. But who's counting?
Dawn
"What's your name, who's your daddy?"
You don't appear to have read what I posted.
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Feb 26 2009, 05:02 AM)
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 25 2009, 11:22 PM)
I was not banned, but merely suspended. And I'm proud to note that I'm likely the most irritating of the many burrs under Sherrif Walker's greasy saddle.
Self Knowledge at last
You are indeed a minor pain in the posterior Charles.
Now Andrew,
The last time you attempted to engage me in a battle of wits, for which you were and are woefully unarmed, you took a beating and then ran to hide behind your administrator's battlements. Hence my suspension.
Would you have at it again? Perhaps on a dedicated thread? Give me your public assurance that, once bested, you will not turn tail, and the games will begin.
Charles
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Feb 26 2009, 03:17 AM)
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 25 2009, 11:22 PM)
But what about David Guyatt?
He seems to have gone - probably not to a better place.
I have no information regarding the circumstances of his departure. You will have to quizz [sic] another.
But Andrew,
Did you not previously write, "[N]one of you, despite your best efforts, were banned."
Care to squirm out of this one, old sport?
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 26 2009, 04:09 PM)
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Feb 26 2009, 05:02 AM)
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 25 2009, 11:22 PM)
I was not banned, but merely suspended. And I'm proud to note that I'm likely the most irritating of the many burrs under Sherrif Walker's greasy saddle.
Self Knowledge at last
You are indeed a minor pain in the posterior Charles.
Now Andrew,
The last time you attempted to engage me in a battle of wits, for which you were and are woefully unarmed, you took a beating and then ran to hide behind your administrator's battlements. Hence my suspension.
Would you have at it again? Perhaps on a dedicated thread? Give me your public assurance that, once bested, you will not turn tail, and the games will begin.
Charles
Come come Chazza you can do better than that
How about something profound from on the "deep" politics forum?
Preregister an account for me and I'll gladly lock horns with your piddling intellect and massive ego on any topic you like
QUOTE (Peter Lemkin @ Feb 26 2009, 10:12 AM)
In all [or some] fairness to Andy [the guy in the bowtie] his posts are most sane, enlightening, normal and germain in the 'rest' [other part where few here dare to venture] of the Forum. He seems to transform when he enters the 'Magic Theatre - Not For Everyone' (Damian, Hess) of the 'Conspiracy' Section. Maybe it is the moonlight.
errhhmmm.... thanks ...........I think.
Maybe Gurdjieff was right about the power of the moon?
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Feb 26 2009, 01:55 PM)
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 26 2009, 04:09 PM)
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Feb 26 2009, 05:02 AM)
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 25 2009, 11:22 PM)
I was not banned, but merely suspended. And I'm proud to note that I'm likely the most irritating of the many burrs under Sherrif Walker's greasy saddle.
Self Knowledge at last
You are indeed a minor pain in the posterior Charles.
Now Andrew,
The last time you attempted to engage me in a battle of wits, for which you were and are woefully unarmed, you took a beating and then ran to hide behind your administrator's battlements. Hence my suspension.
Would you have at it again? Perhaps on a dedicated thread? Give me your public assurance that, once bested, you will not turn tail, and the games will begin.
Charles
Come come Chazza you can do better than that
How about something profound from on the "deep" politics forum?
Preregister an account for me and I'll gladly lock horns with your piddling intellect and massive ego on any topic you like
Sigh ...
Why not here, where you control the field?
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 26 2009, 08:52 PM)
Why not here, where you control the field?
Think.
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Feb 26 2009, 03:19 PM)
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 26 2009, 08:52 PM)
Why not here, where you control the field?
Think.
Stop talking to yourself and answer the question.
Oh ... wait a minute ... you can't risk the exposure.
Got it.
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 26 2009, 09:54 PM)
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Feb 26 2009, 03:19 PM)
QUOTE (Charles Drago @ Feb 26 2009, 08:52 PM)
Why not here, where you control the field?
Think.
Stop talking to yourself and answer the question.
Oh ... wait a minute ... you can't risk the exposure.
Got it.
Charles - you have become ridiculous and have also clearly chosen not to "think".
You have been given enough (more than enough) opportunity to advertise your forum here and I have wished you good luck with your venture on several occasions and yet you continue to be obnoxious and trite. This thread will therefore be closed.
Please desist from projecting all those negative emotions which belong to you onto me and the other good people here. It does you no credit at all and does not further the cause of education one iota.
I have offered to debate with you on any topic you like and you have apparently declined.
If indeed I am correct in my conclusion that you have absolutely nothing to say, please go and say it somewhere else.
thank you.
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