Wow , thats a tough one.

...What is it???

'Mothers little helper'. Porn? Codependency? Love? Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result? Physical? Mental? Dealing with pain, or the hole inside, with something other than inner?

I don't know, but I know what it's like to be an alcoholic. (And my story is not much different from millions of others).

_________


So, here I'd rather tackle this, rather difficult and sometimes controversial, subject with a view to providing resources to those directly or indirectly now or in the past or for the future affected by any kind of addiction, (but particularly in my case, alcohol).

Any questions and comments are welcome.

I'll give some thought to how to approach this and just open the topic for now..

Some intro thoughts:

All youth should sometime in their curriculum be taught something about addiction so that should they find themselves wondering whether they are addicted to something they are aware that there are things one can do to deal with it.

A big problem is denial. This denial is reinforced by the stigma that may be attached and perpetuated by society.

Addicts tend to hide their addiction and this is the worst way to deal with it.

I think all addicts of whatever sort tend to try to present a public persona that belies this underlying problem and often are aided and abetted by well meaning friends and family in this. This in a sense is a bigger problem than the addiction itself.

An addict is driven to do something that essentially is a form of suicide. A self loathing is a part of this and this is a very real sickness. Presented with an addicts behaviour many tend to react in a way that reinforces this and a downward spiral is inevitable.

It is said that some people have addictive personality and are therefore prone to things like alcoholism. Do you agree?

One of the friends of my wife is an alcoholic. Over the last few years Judith had many conversations with her about her drinking problem. She claimed that the reason she needed to be drunk was that she did not enjoy being sober. I could see the logic of that. Her life was pretty bad. She had endured two unhappy marriages and had serious problems with her children. It was a vicious circle. The drinking caused problems with her relationships and this in turn caused her to get drunk.

When I was young I used to enjoy gambling on horses and greyhounds. It never got out of control but I feared it would happen and eventually decided to give up the hobby. The main reason for this was that I was in the company of people who were compulsive gamblers. Some of these men were highly intelligent and it was frightening to watch them lose control. Two of these men ended up in prison and several lost their homes and families.

Although I do not have an addictive personality I used to get obsessional about things. In fact, it is a major strength and is connected to the successes that I have had in life. For example, Judith claimed, probably rightly, that I am a workaholic. My fear in the past is that this obsession would become an addiction. I no longer fear this as I feel too old to develop an addictive personality. I feel that the strength of the drive is important and as we get older these drives become weaker.

It is well confirmed that there are those genetically predisposed to alcohol - one can find endless psychological and medical studies on this. There are also two general reasons for addition, in general [and the range of what one can get addicted to is quite endless....] - one is chemical [brain chemistry] that starts to have negative reactions to NOT having the addictive element and 'positive' or absence of negative when one does - the other is psychological. We all have problems and in varying levels; along with varying levels of coping with our level. Most addictions comfort or eleviate some level of negative psychological state or replace it / cover it over with an endorphine producing or escapist state. Given the horrible state of the planet and humanity's iron-grip on it and the Rulers over the Others, escape and / or wanting to is not so strange. Altered states of consciousness have been sought over all time in all cultures. They can, at times, bring a new and better clarity and consciousness; at others they can cloud the mind and change the personality or ability to function in society in negative ways. We all have addictions - be it running, exercise, reading, sex, drugs [including alcohol], food, love, attention, money, power, and one could list hundreds of others. Alcoholism is not one I know in detail and don't seem to have that predisposition for addiction for it. At times of great sadness [after deaths, etc.] I have turned to it and stopped as quickly as I began with no effects or feeling of need to continue. I certainly do not condemn in any major way those who do struggle with alcohol, less so when they try to battle and win. We all want and need to be in control, as much as is possible of our minds and bodies...we have enough assault we have less control of from the societies we live in and their insanities and irrationalities/cruelties - not to mention those life deals out to all.

John, much of my life has been spent in trying to find an answer that distils the problem to its essence. There are a number of points of view, amongst persons, natonal paradigms derived from various attitudes. They vary a lot and there are within the global community points of view that span many persons through the heierarchy of the world, all struggling in their own way with the problem.

One thing I can say is that I believe that there are solutions.

Much of your post is thought provoking and needs to be dealt with seriously in detail so I'll address the various issues in a timely manner. It needs serious thought.

There is a very good support page here
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/

Andy.

Thank you.

__________


At the moment I can't think of much more to say except that within the link posted lies a wealth of experience and community.

This sure looks like like just the site to answer so many questions.

Sufferers of the World, Join.

SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
(home page for the link Alan provided)

____________
add: One thing that stands out immediately is the respect for the person, the incusiveness, and particularly welcome : the Affirmative Action regarding giving all a voice, including those who so often, because of the potential evils of patriarchy, feel they have no voice.

I haven't looked it up, but is there a commonly-held definition of an addiction? If you can stop and start at your choosing, could you still be an addict?

I think about the practice of "binge drinking"; youth in our country will go out on a Friday night and get hammered. They often do not drink during the week - but on that Friday they have to get hammered. Are they addicts?

I get the impression that there are a lot more "addicts" out there than most of us choose to acknowledge.

John,

you nailed it, mate.

There are a variety of programs out there - some better than others.

Peer pressure
Advertising
Lifestyle
Slack or dysfunctional parenting

The PALS formula for addiction.

"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." Reinhold Niebuhr

Personally I find I am most succeptable to the stasis-that-induces addictions when I have not done any aerobic exercise for long periods. There is a dirrect connection that I have observed umpteen times. Its like my blood gets boored because theres not enough endorphins and then I feel depressed etc. ....

- addiction is to the addict, and to those affected, close and society, seen as a flaw, or a weakness, This reinforces the drive to hide it.

What this means to the addict is that the first step towards clean living involves a kind of surrender and often it comes at a point called ''rock bottom''. There there are only two ways to go, madness and death, or sanity and life.

This surrender is ultimately to something one chooses to believe is more than self.

Most people trust their selves first. So, active addiction is a rational choice and easily justified. In active addiction moral restraints begin to crumble, and all along seem justifiable, and are reinforced by lifes experience and the spiral continues.

One has in fact handed, unwittingly, the power over ones life to something other than self, and that other is not the friend it might have once seemed.


-So: why not hand it over to something life giving???

The first step into a group of aware addicts is a scary one, and many a story is told about the child that died, the tree that fell over, the wife that left, the job lost, and so on. Fundamentally it's someone/thing elses/others fault.

The old timers, smile encouragingly, thinking ''been there, done that'', waiting patiently, and guiding gently, sometimes with success, often with failure, for the addict to begin to believe that they are important but that there is something much more important. Generally this implied other in ''Grant me the...'' is taken as God, and that is a huge stumbling block to many.

There are other valid powers to hand over to and ask for a granting.

Good, for example. The Power of Love. The group that understands and listens without judgement. ...

But it must be, just as handing over to something destructive, a handing over to something lifegiving. And there, ultimately, it must be to something one can have total faith in. And that can seldom be another person. ( I've been to a meeting where everyone buzzes anticipatingly for a 16 year sober elder to share, only to find that he's actually drunk again. This can lead to despair and hopelessness and a bust.)

_________________


I find it difficult, even with my experience of more than half a life time of struggling with this, to be comprehensive in one go. I dont think it's possible for me. So I'll deal with it in measured steps over time, according to my understanding.

Meanwhile, a perusal of the link Alan provided, is for the parents, friends, law enforcement, society, and the addict a very valuable resource wherein parts of the puzzle can be found.

All the contributions, (even the eugeneticist one as a point of discussion), are valuable and should be addressed. Some say it simply and the advice given is not to be taken lightly.

__________________

some other of my favourite sayings from AA are ''one day at a time'', ''keep it simple, stupid'', and ''keep coming back''. ...

John, I too have an addiction, Tobacco, I currently smoke between 12-15 a day. my Father,a fifty a day man, died ten years ago from lung cancer, and still I smoke, the irrationallity of addiction. ( I make the excuse that I work in a highly stressful job)

You have a unique voice and intellect, there is something of the poet about you, and you were realy missed when you ceased posting a while back. Draw strength from your loved ones, and friends, and also your faith. seek help, it exists you know.

Steve.

Steve, it's been said that tobacco ranks (or rather nicotine perhaps) as one of, if not the, most addictive substances ever. I think it is a subtopic of importance all of itself, but perhaps the smoker can choose to not smokw for, say, two weeks? then report back. It would be interesting to know the various experiences.
Thank you for your kind words ( sheesh ... I thought I was the only one who knew that )
I missed not posting but it was a good experience that gave me a new perspective, so, (as we say here) its all good.
Ultimately the strength needs to flow from inside.

To get to such a space seeking help, take a leap, and as this thread is about, yes, the help exists, seeek it.You might find it.
Better than the alternative.

I think the tobacco issue can help many to understand.

Nicotine addiction is perhaps the most prevalent drug addiction in the world, and coffee perhaps ( remember the headaches? ). Therefore every smoker has an opportunity, or maybe has already tried, to see what addiction means by trying to giving up for a set period of time, I think two weeks should give most an idea.

A lot of the questions are given an opportunity to be answered as well.

I cannot, nor any other addict should, say that such and such has an addiction. It immediately disempowers the addict. The point is to have the addict admit it theirselves through their OWN knowing. This empowernment is going to be an essential tool in the batttle ahead.

Denial is perhaps enemy number one.

Thus a welcomed non judgemental admission by the individual, after sitting quietly in the corner listening to others admit gives confidence, and its when the personal, unforced admission occurs that the move towards clean living, and correct thinking really starts.

As far as speculation goes, personally, I think that : Evan: 'more "addicts" out there than most of us choose to acknowledge' is correct.

"If you can stop and start at your choosing, could you still be an addict?" yes and no. My first heavy dinking was a once off end of school blowout. When at uni, some semblance of duty kept me an occasional drinker for a while. After, once a week seemed quite sufficient. I lived in an atmosphere of activity and responsibility.

Later, in the eighties, the time came when you could have found me sitting nursing whisky bottle after bottle with no food in filthy clothing by the railway, until, when I was taken to a drytank for three months, my blood alcohol level was about 0.4. I had already, years previously stood up in AA meetings and ''admitted'' I was an alcoholic.

The REAL admission came late in life, about 6 years ago. And yet I had one major bust to come which was six months non stop of falling unconscious, waking up, having a shower, vomiting, and by then the bottleo was open, and my day repeated again, over and over. Then I gave up, and I thought that was it, an I was dry for 5 years, then something knocks me off balance, Im blue, I'm in a car late at night, alone, and there is a bottleo. : perfect combo. Two days of drinking, then all the messages given over the years gel, and a public, global admission follows. Thats how it has worked for me. Now, through Adans link, I'm a member of a global community and no longer feel alone.

_____________

Drawing on Gregs post : H.A.L.T. : Hunger, Anger, Loneliness, Thirst.

If youre hungy you can eat food
If youre angry you can be so and talk to someone
If youre lonely call any one, pref your best dry addict friend
If you are thirsty have a drink

you dont HAVE to drink booze to solve these problems, you may if you wish of course, but sooner or later, hopefully you will come to know where that leads.

______________

And John, you ask questions that are so hard to answer.

Basically its about empowering the addict.

Many avoid destructive addictions and channel the same drive into productive things. I suspect that upbringing has a lot to do with this. I don't know, but i wouldn't be surprised if someone in your childhood genuinely cared for you and taught you some important things, planted some seeds, and that has stood the test of time.

_____________

Some might not come to discover an addiction until their wife has left, the house fallen down, the dog run over, and whatever.

Alone, the bottle may seem to hold a solution. But it can turn into a curse worse than anything else. Any time, any where.

____________

So ultimately, again, the provision of resources for youth and otherwise who might find themselves wondering is paramount.

Suggestions like Nathaniels, and others, are part of the things to do. Howver one must also consider worst case scenarios and wonder whether in some circumstances some things will be impossible and its then that the 'crunch' comes.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/homework/a/blwhatis1.htm
http://alcoholism.about.com/z/js/o.htm?k=a...a/blwhatis1.htm

I don't think I'm an alcoholic, however, I do consume alcohol on a regular basis (too often, according to guidelines). I often wonder where do you draw the line, when it comes to defining an alcoholic?

Is one an alcoholic when one can not cope with work and family due to drinking? Probably.
Is one an alcoholic if one drinks over 20-30 portions of alcohol a week, but does it in a social manner and copes well with work and social life? Probably not.

To me those are important questions, I fear it is an illness that can creep up on you, if you are not alert. I am at risk.

I have family and friends who are alcoholics, so I've seen what the disease can do. I hope there'll be some better ways to deal with this disease in the future, the current methods are not adequate imo.

We have our fair share of this problem here in Finland:


http://www.lfhk.cuni.cz/patfyz/edu/Current...n%20Finland.ppt

If you say you are at risk then it must be taken very seriously. My immediate recommendations is the beginning of the buiding of a support network plus (and Im not kidding) find time to have a series of three or so real sauna eves, with a little bit of vodka if you have to, plus a refreshing after meal of ryvita and salted fish, dill perhaps, and water or a natural fruit additive. Then a good sleep. Consider other things along that line as well. Find and reduce pressures. It's important to consider the ultimate physical and mental effects and make time for something nourishing in all spheres.

Some more thoughts, Antti. You've shared something thats no doubt thoughts in many minds. It is life giving, not just to you, thank you for sharing!

You are very wise in saying clearly you are at risk.
You will find unexpected support,
and you will find unexpected dilemmas to resolve.

To begin working on it is fantastic.

One doesn't HAVE to do it all at once. That's why I say don't exclude alcohol immediately from your life, in your situation, if at all, you must feel free.

The changes to cope with can be just as destructive as keeping on a risky path. What I am suggesting is gradually make the path LESS risky, and deal with each issue in the thoughtful and calm manner that you are so capable of.
____________________

In the meantime, consider two important (in fact vital ) organs, your liver. your brain and the whole neural network.

Feed them with vitalising elements, food, joy, sharing, giving, all the nutrition that these organs need to sustain a defence against this, quite simply, toxic substance.

And last but not least, and dont let it feel like a burden that you have to carry, it can just as easily be an act of unburdening, of loving, don't forget (as Steve pointed out) those who truly love you, and that you love.

re support network: let it include an impartial councellor of sorts, whatever suits you.

John,
Thanks for your comments. I go through spurts (I can't say binges) and then I'm without a drink for several days. I think my habit is a result of stress, personal problems and lack of sleep/rest.

I will try some of your advice over my upcoming break.

The Twenty Questions to help one determine
IF he/she has a problem with ALCOHOL.

The 20 Questions

Take this 20 question test to help you decide whether or not you are an alcoholic.

Answer YES or NO to the following questions.

1. Do you lose time from work due to drinking?
YES __ NO __

2. Is drinking making your home life unhappy?
YES __ NO __

3. Do you drink because you are shy with other people?
YES __ NO __

4. Is your drinking affecting your reputation?
YES __ NO __

5. Have you ever felt remorse after drinking?
YES __ NO __

6. Have you ever got into financial difficulties as a result of drinking?
YES __ NO __

7. Do you turn to lower companions and an inferior environment when drinking?
YES __ NO __

8. Does your drinking make you careless of your family’s welfare?
YES __ NO __

9. Has your ambition decreased since drinking?
YES __ NO __

10. Do you crave a drink at a definite time?
YES __ NO __

11. Do you want a drink the next morning?
YES __ NO __

12. Does drinking cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?
YES __ NO __

13. Has your efficiency decreased since drinking?
YES __ NO __

14. Is drinking jeopardizing your job or business?
YES __ NO __

15. Do you drink to escape from worries or trouble?

YES __ NO __

16. Do you drink alone?
YES __ NO __

17. Have you ever had a complete loss of memory as a result of drinking?
YES __ NO __

18. Has your physician ever treated you for drinking?
YES __ NO __

19. Do you drink to build up your self-confidence?
YES __ NO __

20. Have you ever been to a hospital or institution because of drinking?
YES __ NO __

What's your score?

If you have answered YES to any one of the questions, there is a definite warning that you may be an alcoholic.

If you have answered YES to any two, the chances are that you are an alcoholic.

If you answered YES to three or more, you are definitely an alcoholic.

(The test questions are used at Johns Hopkins University Hospital, Baltimore, MD, in deciding whether or not a patient is an alcoholic).

It's been heard: IF you simply THINK you have a problem with alcohol, you HAVE a problem with alcohol!

Thank you for that David. As a teacher I found that 3 is an important factor in why young people drink. When I was a teenager I used to drink to give myself confidence. Lucky for me I was working with a man named Bob Clarke, who was in his early 30s. He had just lost his only child and my father had been killed in a road accident. Bob became my surrogate father and was always around to give me great advice.

Bob warned me the dangers of getting drunk. He pointed out that if drinking gave me confidence, there was a danger that I would always resort to it everytime I had to face a stressful situation. Bob then gave me the most important advice that I have ever received. It in fact changed my personality. Bob said the best way of dealing with shyness in social situations was to concentrate on helping the person you are dealing with to increase their level of self-confidence. I found it worked. The reason being is that you forget about your own problems. What is more, you are making the other person feel better about themselves. It is a great way of making friends (and lovers). It has also helped me not to become an alcoholic.

You're welcome, John.... If one is so inclined a simple reading of Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book goes into much detail concerning the ravages of alcoholism AND a way out. The book clearly defines *problem* drinking as opposed to *alcoholic* drinking. (one needs only google "Alcoholics Anonymous")

Alcoholics Anonymous does NOT claim to be the last word in *alcoholic* drinking and the problems that surround the disease. The program has worked for 3+ million people (worldwide) since 1935. Not a bad track record for folks that were seemingly on the road to institutions of various stripe, insanity or death.

Alcohol is the world’s favourite drug refined over thousands of years and presented in a variety of delicious forms. None of these forms however disguise the fact that it is a slow poison and a slow poison that if taken too regularly will cause liver collapse and a very painful death.
I would contend that a majority of the population of my country drink to an excess that would result in most doctors classifying them as alcoholics. If you doubt this I suggest you go ‘dry’ for a period of time – say a few weeks – and observe the behaviour and values of those around you. There is indeed a silent conspiracy to belittle the dangers of drink and a quite loud one which pressures you to join in the drinking and thus justify the continued behaviour of those around you. There are indeed a lot more alcoholics around than many of us would care to admit.

Alcoholism is an addiction which presents itself as a coping strategy. The first step for an alcoholic is to acknowledge the truth in this statement. Thus I see no value in arguments expressed here that it is unsatisfactory lives, relationships or even poor government which ‘cause’ alcoholism. From this acknowledgement progress is possible. It’s an addiction and you’ve got it.

Drying out is difficult. Even those of us who regards ourselves as ‘social drinkers’ (denial!) may struggle with withdrawal symptoms when they attempt to stop drinking. The problem with withdrawal is that at every point the drinker knows that the horrible symptoms of withdrawal can be terminated at any time with another drink. If you return to the drink after detox then the withdrawal symptoms you experience next time will be worse and more prolonged. King Booze does not give up on his subjects without a prolonged struggle.

The established treatment for alcoholics has followed closely the teaching of Jung. Jung almost despairing of the middle aged alcoholic recidivists that he treated concluded that the only thing that could possibly shake his patients out of their behaviour was some sort of religious or spiritual conversion. Although this approach undoubtedly works I would contend that it is probably not for everyone.

If you are worried about your drinking then you already have a problem – acknowledge it and most importantly acknowledge it to someone else – then write down a list of reasons why you’d like to stop (they will be powerful!). Keep this document somewhere safe where you can refer to it when you are feeling like weakening. Do not detox alone or without medical help. If you have been even a moderately heavy drinker going ‘cold turkey’ can be extremely dangerous – seek medical help as detox though not easy doesn’t have to be agony. Make sure you have someone you can confide in as you go through the process.

complete agreement, thank you Andy Walker...

This is indeed the stark reality.

Unfortunately, it's a lot to deal with for the addict.

Generally, the addict has no idea of any of this. Addiction is a very self centered sickness in many ways. The drive stems from within, the act of partaking, the justifications, the consequences, the denial, ... all stem from within, and dismantling this tangled web, which usually has been built up over a long time, ultimately leads to a look at self.

The Admission leads to a series of events that can be very difficult to deal with because of this long formed attachment to what is basically a life built on a lie. There will always be the ''me'' that knows better and the simplest way to deal with it is to surrender to it again and again. The proper way of dealing with it can have, to the addict, horrifying self realisations.

_________________

The inclusion in ones life at this point of at least one non pre judiced guide, a Friend in the Truest sense (who sometimes must deal out Tough Love). This can seldom be someone embroiled somehow in the web. In AA it is found in the person of what is called a Sponsor, who, not lightly, accepts to take on the task. For the sponsor it is a very good way to stay on the path not just for the active addict. Someone who over time and repeated busts, is always there, even at 4am or so, never to support any resumption of active addiction, but accept it non judgementally (been there done that) and pray or have faith that the addict with proper guidance, again can come to own the addiction and proceed to such a full realisation as Andy so harshly but quite simply ''telling it as it is'' has done.

Its good to hear it, to read it and ponder upon it.

Ultimately, for the process to succeed, the one who ultimately is responsible for everything, the addict, must face this truth.

The path to this fill realisation, which is necessarily coupled with a self realisation, can be arduous.

In AA one will find friends, (perhaps for the first time?) The true friend amongst the ''friends'' is the one who is steadfast through the whole process, helping to turn the self loathing, which ultimately raises its head as an enemy, into a liberation.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...view=getnewpost (link to related topic)
________________________

''Tough Love'' ...

... is an important element that loved ones and the addict at times must deal with.

Many Parents and friends accomodate the addict out of love. Understandable, but for the addict not so good at times. There are also resources for the people who care about the addict. AA groupings for example, for the non addict.

In this the message is often one of the hardest for a Parent to take. Kick the addict out and grieve, and pray, and hope. Refuse any support that is not Very Clearly aimed at the acting seeking help themselves. Support that fully, and resume Tough Love if needed.

This, while very hard on the addict, can, and in many instances does, lead to an owning of the addiction and the path to salvation taken. The addict then realises who truly loves them, and they in turn grow to value their true selves, which is so important.

worldwide link(s) for those pondering the question, 'do I need help':

http://www.na.org (Narcotics Anonymous)

for the alcoholic:

http://www.aa.org (Alcoholics Anonymous)

Help is a phone call away! Nearly anywhere in the world!

Well said, John.

Alcoholism is a disease that is chronic, progressive and fatal. While all the questions are valuable in assessing one's interactions (or, dare I say it, relationship) with alcohol, the most telling to me seems to be that of abstinence. If one can stop all consumption for a period of 30 days while being more-or-less comfortable about it, they are probably not an alcoholic. At that point, any drinking issues per se (such as binging or just regularly tying-one-on) can be dealt with at that level.

If one cannot go 30 days comfortably without alcohol, one is probably an alcoholic. There are two levels -- the first is more an emotional obsession (though that doesn't quite explain it) One is bereft of pleasure if they cannot drink. They are theoretically capable of stopping but are miserable when they do (and make others miserable -- dry drunk it is called). If one is at this level, run to AA and consider treatment. This was where I was 34 years ago tomorrow. I went to outpatient treatment for a month and it saved my life.

The final stages of alcoholism are physical; the person cannot (and should not) stop drinking on their own because they are physically addicted. Anyone at this stage should (hit bottom first) run to a hospital and explain their circumstances and ask for help while they dry out and then go to AA. My first husband died of the ravages of this disease, complicated by the fact that he tried to stop drinking at the physical level on his own.

Yes, I was once in a similar situation. I was in fact ordered by a doctor not to stop drinking. I might suffer fatal consequences.

This is why I reiterate that this disease is very serious, and partly because of stigma issues, partly the ''I know best'', people in this situation must have input, which, in the way things are set up, is often the last thing an active addict, or dry drunk too, seeks.

The situation must be approached with compassion where the addict can somehow begin to value life more than oblivion.

Education is important.

Treatment options are important.

Don't just consult a doctor, consult widely, and particularly with addicts (sober, in recovery, not dry drunks) as to their experiences. The input varies and at times professionals in the field know only what they have read. A Doctor who is him/her self an admitted and recovering addict is ideal.

But in emergency situations, certainly, recognise them and deal accordingly and timely.

Somewhere it is written:
"You have a unique voice and intellect, there is something of the poet about you, and you were realy missed when you ceased posting a while back. " All of THAT reporting was accurate!

Thank you, Nathaniel, kind words. Anyway, as a resource for those who suffer from addictions, I think this has been a good topic, with much good input. (Certainly for me). I hadn't realised just how important, and just how difficult, dealing with Denial really is.

Denial seems such a natural reaction, yet so unproductive.

It strikes me that the environment one moves through should be one which in some nurturing way supports the opposite, and I think much of the world does in various ways, but particularly self help groupings where other equally affected persons can gather and share is probably the best on offer, where those who talk, walk the talk.

So, any addict of any sort, take heart. There is a way that leads to a good life. (As John Simkin pointed out one CAN take the correct road early with caring input to the formative mind.) It's never too late.

Everyone has to hit bottom in their own way. Some are never able to take the first step. And anyone can be successfully taken off alcohol or drugs provided they are in the appropriate environment (usually a hospital) and are supervised during the process.

Hitting Rock Bottom.

Unfortunately this is the end, and, hopefully, then: the beginning for many addicts.

By this time something has happened in the addicts life where the drug of choice no longer offers ANYTHING.. By this time the care for the self, and hence, of course, for the other, means little any more.

There can be said to be many ''degrees'' of rock bottom, (as many as there are addicts I suppose), and for each addict often a series of worse rock bottoms.
The illness is progressive and cumulative, with each bust picking up where the last one left off.

What must come is a True rock bottom. True in the sense that the addict admits to him/herself that they are hopeless, and that this stems from one source only, the inability to not surrender to the drug of choice.

This MUST be followed up with a sharing of that admission with something/one other than self, partly because the very process of verbalising it is in a sense like signing a contract, with the obligations attached. This will help enormously in the battles to come.

Don't imagine for a moment that the war is over.

As sobriety takes hold, the addict begins to come face to face, even in just their selves, with all the wrong thinking, actions, and consequences that has affected their lives and the lives of many.

A process of putting things right follows, which is at times so difficult. Help is needed, and it exists.

Maturity.

Generally the problems of a pre active addict are part of everyday life that the drug of choice seems to solve. So, in a way, the process of maturing ends because the easy solution has been found, not from within but from without. So, no matter at which point the addict hits bottom, it is there where the maturation process can proceed in its natural way.

From my standpoint there is a connection between hitting rock bottom and taking the first step. Only when one can see and realize the chaos and insanity in their life can that happen. Sometimes circumstances need to become really intolerable in order for that to happen.

My first husband never did take the first step. At one point he went into treatment because his employer insisted on it, and before long had memorized all the books in their library and was counseling not only the other patients but the counselors as well as to how to live their lives and deal with their problems. He spent nearly a month in treatment before everyone realized where he was really at and that they were powerless to help him.

After that, even though he did stop drinking (and nearly died, was told if he ever took another drink not to bother calling 911 because he would be dead before the paramedics got there) he hated AA and all that it represented. As a result, he was frequently in a bad humour and struggling with dry drunk attacks. I don't believe he ever had much serenity. It was a tragic loss of someone who was gifted and too 'smart' for his own good.

Many addicts, if not all, are too smart for their own good much of the time.

If one cannot take the first step of truly admitting ones helplessness over the addiction of choice, one cannot take further steps. The further steps demand much in regards to putting ones mind and life in order.

In a sense it's like ''ok i've got a problem, but see, here i am at the detox or whatever and i'm not doing my addiction, and look, i can read, i know what its about etc etc'' but it's the very factor that will lead to a relapse that is rearing its ugly head. The Ego. ''I am the power that chooses'', and so on, missing the point that, no, it's the illness that chooses for you.

In AA the very first steps are aimed at admitting the powerlessness and handing over the power of ones life to something greater than self that is not the addiction.

This is a huge step.

''What, you're suggesting that I'm dumb, weak, whatever? And I should hand over my will to a guide, whether it be the group, love, god, good? No way?''

Well the process has ended and the next submission to this destructive power of the addiction is only a matter of time.

Been there, done it, seen it happen again and again.

(What began to cement some of the concepts for me was doing the 3 meetings a day for 30 days. But even then a few more busts were on the horizon.)

This disease is very difficult to deal with and I think that in a way ones Self is one of the biggest enemies. So a big part of the road to recovery is not a devaluing of self, but rather an inclusion of self in a sharing grouping that are empowered through a recognition that doing the addiction diminishes self and there is indeed a greater power than self, that is not doing the addiction of choice, but a path towards a true empowerment.

Ego and Stigma are huge enemies. Within the non judgemental grouping, a real self evaluation can proceed with a result of greater self worth but it can take many decades and many ruined lives to get to such a point of surrender.

But why should it be so?

One so easily surrenders to something guaranteed to destroy self. Why is the opposite so difficult?

There are of course many forms of addiction. Perhaps one unifying factor is an addiction to ones self? ? ?

....

What I mean is the experience one has within ones mind body confines, or perhaps a better way of putting it is : the feelings or sensations one encounters in a continual flux within that which one defines as being ''me''.

They range from the pleasant to the unpleasant.

The habit is to seek the pleasant and to reject the unpleasant.

Having been to many various detoxes and various recovery venues I've come across many different types of addictions. Some stand out more than others. A couple of examples may help to explain what I mean here.

One involved a very bright young man who didn't seem to fit in in many ways (until getting to know him over time as he fought his particular addiction, which happened to be gambling).

Over a period of weeks he seemed to become more and more uneasy.

One day he appeared with bandages on his hands. Over a few days the number of bandages increased.

We liked playing chess and talking quietly while the whole mix of others carried on with whatever they were into. He told me that this thing had been happening to him before.

As he voluntarily isolated homself from the buzz of gambling he sooner or later reached a stage where his hands started to itch.

He had no way of dealing with it except to scratch the itch.
Thus, over time, (not long), his hands started to turn into bleeding messes.

In the end he succumbed and left.
__

Another was also someone I used to play chess with and talk except these experiences always had an element of menace to them.

He told me that his life experience was that he was so addicted to the rush he got through being totally furious that he continually sought out ways to get this rush. Fortunately for me we kind of got along fairly respectfully so when he lost the worst I got was a chess board spread over the floor and he knew to withdraw to where he could express and live his fury without resorting to very destructive actions.

However, in the end, a continual theme in his life repeated itself and he ended up being taken into custody, which he was familiar with (and was an environment where he could act out his addiction).

Again, a surrender.

Man is a multiplicity of 'I's' and yet believes himself to be one. Find where the compulsive 'I' resides, acknowledge him, and the work may commence.

hmmm... Most profound, imho, Andy.

What more can one add?
...

It reminds me of a saying at times ascribed to the Oracle of Delphi : "Know Thyself".
As the ''beginning of all Wisdom'', significant Teachers through humanities social evolution have said the same thing.

Perhaps one way one could elaborate is that in the process of coming ot know ones self, one comes to know this fragmentation of self ''smeared'' across different arenas and times. ( Past, Future and sometimes even Present, which is always what exists, (: it's ALWAYS ''now'' (we may remember past and imagine future, dwelling there, which is the favoured activity, yet a ''place'' many, if not most, avoid with great panache.

The wholistic present is a fruit of the past and a field for the sowing of the future.
So important yet so neglected.

In this present, the self is multi faceted and denying the components that are fragmented according to wrong thinking is the domain wherein the struggle is hard simply because it is unpleasant.

So the unpleasant parts of self are never embraced, reconciled, integrated and changed so the future present will always retain this component, which I suppose one could say is the fount of denial, > until recognised, dealt with, and stops producing further future present unpleasantnesses to deny.
Similarly, the extreme attachment to the pleasant, whether it exists in the now or is missed from the now, but always chased, keeps the full knowing of self from becoming possible. Various solutions are offered, from Jack Cassady and the Merry Pranksters total immersion experiments, to following strict codes of denial, usually dealing with the spiritual.

The Oracle is also attributed as the origin of ''Nothing to Excess'' (or moderation), which again is repeated by great teachers in search of self, like Buddhas ''Noble'' or ''Middle Path'', for example, where he teaches Equanimity, or even-mindedness in the face of all experiencing of self.

Through this equanimous acceptance of all self, which necessarily involves the incorporation of the unpleasant ,and a cessation of the pursuit of the pleasant, one begins to heal self by a loving kindness attitude to ALL of self. Necessarily this leads to an end of denial and a new beginning, now sowing good seed on fertile ground, assuring the future present, that strangely enough is in fact > that which one has chased all the time anyway ! <.

Aren't humans Nuts?. (myself included of course)

One of the most dangerous addictions is an addiction to “romantic love”. This is especially true for those who experienced the extreme passion of romantic love when they were teenagers. It of course does not last and as men grow older they have a strong desire to recapture this experience. Unfortunately, romantic love is a form of madness and results in some strange decision-making, including leaving the family home and causing psychological problems for their children.

A lot of it has to do with various types or definitions of love.

I think that comes under the heading of addiction to self : in the sense that it is an addiction to feelings or sensations that arise on the mind/body when dwelling in the past, which is like a plant that flowers regularly and produces seed that again at some time sprouts - grows - flowers - seeds - dies > ad infinitum. One can choose to let the seed fall on barren ground. But that's not easy, ( as all the other things discussed ), as it always involves a change and a loss of something (remember all this happens within that which one calls ''I'' or ''Me'', ( not under a rock or in any other place ) ) and the grief that accompanies any loss. So, again, it's a matter of coming to know ones self, embracing and healing, and of course going through the attendant unpleasantesses, with a spirit of true love, ( the kind of sacrificing love of a parent for an errant child perhaps, loving kindness, ( or as Buddha called it : Metta ) ).

So, Love, in itself, is Very important. To just .be. in love, to just love, without an entrapment of anything, or necessarily directed at anyone or anything, but rather an overflowing of a true loving of that kind for self ), Free Love, if you will, rather than something that involves possessiveness or jealousy but rather freedom.
freedom to love and freedom for all that which is loved.

This is obviously not romantic love which is likely kind of created by fairy tales about frogs, princes and princesses that live happily ever after, so the impetus for the destructive element that one mistakes as true love has likely much earlier origins, and the path towards a true universal kind of brotherly sisterly love is strewn with misery
of all kinds within and without. Basically distributing that which belongs within self to any takers, (and the supply of them is endless), so it's a universal human solution.
.....

Something much more destructive is such a love of self that in NO way recognises that which it is projected onto, just because it (whatever it may be) is held responsible for this kind of self love. In a sense ''I'' or ''Me'' comes to encompass the ''other'' as ''mine''. IOW a kind of extention of self to include much that never is (or was or will be) ''I''. Or a fragmentation of self, which is a kind of real madness.

Note to self - 'do not marry anima'

''Wiki

''The anima and animus, in Carl Jung's school of analytical psychology, are the unconscious or true inner self of an individual, as opposed to the persona or outer aspect of the personality. In the unconscious of the male, it finds expression as a feminine inner personality: anima; equivalently, in the unconscious of the female, it is expressed as a masculine inner personality: animus.

It can be identified as the totality of the unconscious feminine psychological qualities that a male possesses; or the masculine ones possessed by the female. Jung stated that the anima/animus archetype was not totally unconscious, calling it "a little bit conscious and unconscious."[1] In the interview, he gave an example of a man who falls head over heels in love, then later in life regrets his blind choice as he finds that he has married his own anima–the unconscious idea of the feminine in his mind, rather than the woman herself. The anima is usually an aggregate of a man's mother but may also incorporate aspects of sisters, aunts, and teachers.

The anima is one of the most significant autonomous complexes of all. It manifests itself by appearing as figures in dreams as well as by influencing a man's interactions with women and his attitudes toward them, and vice versa for females and the animus. Jung said that confronting one's shadow self is an "apprentice-piece", while confronting one's anima is the masterpiece. Jung viewed the anima process as being one of the sources of creative ability.''

I think I know what you mean (though i suppose you might be suffering from a severe case of wit brevity ), but it's better expressed as not blindly ( or ignorantly of self ) externalising the anima. Whereas marrying the anima within or the animus within is a confrontation that carries with it change that is a move to a more wholistic self, ie owning it, not projecting it.
This very interesting btw, thank you. Some of that in the latter paragraphs is in dispute in various ways by various strands, parallell and radiating from Freud. Addiction is a universal ( i'm always hesitant about writing problem because they beg solutions and those probabbly invariably exists so to cut to the chase : ) solution to find. One measure is that if moderation doesn't work then addiction is probably a factor. For the addict the way it's often expressed is as a co-dependency issue. Real or imagined.


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