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Peter Lemkin
Fascist America: Are We There Yet?

by Sara Robinson
September 08, 2009




http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/...e-we-there-yet


All through the dark years of the Bush Administration, progressives watched in horror as Constitutional protections vanished, nativist rhetoric ratcheted up, hate speech turned into intimidation and violence, and the president of the United States seized for himself powers only demanded by history's worst dictators. With each new outrage, the small handful of us who'd made ourselves experts on right-wing culture and politics would hear once again from worried readers: Is this it? Have we finally become a fascist state? Are we there yet?

And every time this question got asked, people like Chip Berlet and Dave Neiwert and Fred Clarkson and yours truly would look up from our maps like a parent on a long drive, and smile a wan smile of reassurance. "Wellll...we're on a bad road, and if we don't change course, we could end up there soon enough. But there's also still plenty of time and opportunity to turn back. Watch, but don't worry. As bad as this looks: no -- we are not there yet."

In tracking the mileage on this trip to perdition, many of us relied on the work of historian Robert Paxton, who is probably the world's pre-eminent scholar on the subject of how countries turn fascist. In a 1998 paper published in The Journal of Modern History, Paxton argued that the best way to recognize emerging fascist movements isn't by their rhetoric, their politics, or their aesthetics. Rather, he said, mature democracies turn fascist by a recognizable process, a set of five stages that may be the most important family resemblance that links all the whole motley collection of 20th Century fascisms together. According to our reading of Paxton's stages, we weren't there yet. There were certain signs -- one in particular -- we were keeping an eye out for, and we just weren't seeing it.

And now we are. In fact, if you know what you're looking for, it's suddenly everywhere. It's odd that I haven't been asked for quite a while; but if you asked me today, I'd tell you that if we're not there right now, we've certainly taken that last turn into the parking lot and are now looking for a space. Either way, our fascist American future now looms very large in the front windshield -- and those of us who value American democracy need to understand how we got here, what's changing now, and what's at stake in the very near future if these people are allowed to win -- or even hold their ground.

What is fascism?
The word has been bandied about by so many people so wrongly for so long that, as Paxton points out, "Everybody is somebody else's fascist." Given that, I always like to start these conversations by revisiting Paxton's essential definition of the term:

"Fascism is a system of political authority and social order intended to reinforce the unity, energy, and purity of communities in which liberal democracy stands accused of producing division and decline."

Elsewhere, he refines this further as

"a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."

.
Jonah Goldberg aside, that's a basic definition most legitimate scholars in the field can agree on, and the one I'll be referring to here.

From proto-fascism to the tipping point
According to Paxton, fascism unfolds in five stages. The first two are pretty solidly behind us -- and the third should be of particular interest to progressives right now.

In the first stage, a rural movement emerges to effect some kind of nationalist renewal (what Roger Griffin calls "palingenesis" -- a phoenix-like rebirth from the ashes). They come together to restore a broken social order, always drawing on themes of unity, order, and purity. Reason is rejected in favor of passionate emotion. The way the organizing story is told varies from country to country; but it's always rooted in the promise of restoring lost national pride by resurrecting the culture's traditional myths and values, and purging society of the toxic influence of the outsiders and intellectuals who are blamed for their current misery.

Fascism only grows in the disturbed soil of a mature democracy in crisis. Paxton suggests that the Ku Klux Klan, which formed in reaction to post-Civil War Reconstruction, may in fact be the first authentically fascist movement in modern times. Almost every major country in Europe sprouted a proto-fascist movement in the wretched years following WWI (when the Klan enjoyed a major resurgence here as well) -- but most of them stalled either at this first stage, or the next one.

As Rick Perlstein documented in his two books on Barry Goldwater and Richard Nixon, modern American conservatism was built on these same themes. From "Morning in America" to the Rapture-ready religious right to the white nationalism promoted by the GOP through various gradients of racist groups, it's easy to trace how American proto-fascism offered redemption from the upheavals of the 1960s by promising to restore the innocence of a traditional, white, Christian, male-dominated America. This vision has been so thoroughly embraced that the entire Republican party now openly defines itself along these lines. At this late stage, it's blatantly racist, sexist, repressed, exclusionary, and permanently addicted to the politics of fear and rage. Worse: it doesn't have a moment's shame about any of it. No apologies, to anyone. These same narrative threads have woven their way through every fascist movement in history.

In the second stage, fascist movements take root, turn into real political parties, and seize their seat at the table of power. Interestingly, in every case Paxton cites, the political base came from the rural, less-educated parts of the country; and almost all of them came to power very specifically by offering themselves as informal goon squads organized to intimidate farmworkers on behalf of the large landowners. The KKK disenfranchised black sharecroppers and set itself up as the enforcement wing of Jim Crow. The Italian Squadristi and the German Brownshirts made their bones breaking up farmers' strikes. And these days, GOP-sanctioned anti-immigrant groups make life hell for Hispanic agricultural workers in the US. As violence against random Hispanics (citizens and otherwise) increases, the right-wing goon squads are getting basic training that, if the pattern holds, they may eventually use to intimidate the rest of us.

Paxton wrote that succeeding at the second stage "depends on certain relatively precise conditions: the weakness of a liberal state, whose inadequacies condemn the nation to disorder, decline, or humiliation; and political deadlock because the Right, the heir to power but unable to continue to wield it alone, refuses to accept a growing Left as a legitimate governing partner." He further noted that Hitler and Mussolini both took power under these same circumstances: "deadlock of constitutional government (produced in part by the polarization that the fascists abetted); conservative leaders who felt threatened by the loss of their capacity to keep the population under control at a moment of massive popular mobilization; an advancing Left; and conservative leaders who refused to work with that Left and who felt unable to continue to govern against the Left without further reinforcement."

And more ominously: "The most important variables...are the conservative elites' willingness to work with the fascists (along with a reciprocal flexibility on the part of the fascist leaders) and the depth of the crisis that induces them to cooperate."

That description sounds eerily like the dire straits our Congressional Republicans find themselves in right now. Though the GOP has been humiliated, rejected, and reduced to rump status by a series of epic national catastrophes mostly of its own making, its leadership can't even imagine governing cooperatively with the newly mobilized and ascendant Democrats. Lacking legitimate routes back to power, their last hope is to invest the hardcore remainder of their base with an undeserved legitimacy, recruit them as shock troops, and overthrow American democracy by force. If they can't win elections or policy fights, they're more than willing to take it to the streets, and seize power by bullying Americans into silence and complicity.

When that unholy alliance is made, the third stage -- the transition to full-fledged government fascism -- begins.

The third stage: being there
All through the Bush years, progressive right-wing watchers refused to call it "fascism" because, though we kept looking, we never saw clear signs of a deliberate, committed institutional partnership forming between America's conservative elites and its emerging homegrown brownshirt horde. We caught tantalizing signs of brief flirtations -- passing political alliances, money passing hands, far-right moonbat talking points flying out of the mouths of "mainstream" conservative leaders. But it was all circumstantial, and fairly transitory. The two sides kept a discreet distance from each other, at least in public. What went on behind closed doors, we could only guess. They certainly didn't act like a married couple.

Now, the guessing game is over. We know beyond doubt that the Teabag movement was created out of whole cloth by astroturf groups like Dick Armey's FreedomWorks and Tim Phillips' Americans for Prosperity, with massive media help from FOX News. We see the Birther fracas -- the kind of urban myth-making that should have never made it out of the pages of the National Enquirer -- being openly ratified by Congressional Republicans. We've seen Armey's own professionally-produced field manual that carefully instructs conservative goon squads in the fine art of disrupting the democratic governing process -- and the film of public officials being terrorized and threatened to the point where some of them required armed escorts to leave the building. We've seen Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner applauding and promoting a video of the disruptions and looking forward to "a long, hot August for Democrats in Congress."

This is the sign we were waiting for -- the one that tells us that yes, kids: we are there now. America's conservative elites have openly thrown in with the country's legions of discontented far right thugs. They have explicitly deputized them and empowered them to act as their enforcement arm on America's streets, sanctioning the physical harassment and intimidation of workers, liberals, and public officials who won't do their political or economic bidding.

This is the catalyzing moment at which honest-to-Hitler fascism begins. It's also our very last chance to stop it.

The fail-safe point
According to Paxton, the forging of this third-stage alliance is the make-or-break moment -- and the worst part of it is that by the time you've arrived at that point, it's probably too late to stop it. From here, it escalates, as minor thuggery turns into beatings, killings, and systematic tagging of certain groups for elimination, all directed by people at the very top of the power structure. After Labor Day, when Democratic senators and representatives go back to Washington, the mobs now being created to harass them will remain to run the same tactics -- escalated and perfected with each new use -- against anyone in town whose color, religion, or politics they don't like. In some places, they're already making notes and taking names.

Where's the danger line? Paxton offers three quick questions that point us straight at it:

1. Are [neo- or protofascisms] becoming rooted as parties that represent major interests and feelings and wield major influence on the political scene?

2. Is the economic or constitutional system in a state of blockage apparently insoluble by existing authorities?

3. Is a rapid political mobilization threatening to escape the control of traditional elites, to the point where they would be tempted to look for tough helpers in order to stay in charge?

By my reckoning, we're three for three. That's too close. Way too close.

The Road Ahead
History tells us that once this alliance catalyzes and makes a successful bid for power, there's no way off this ride. As Dave Neiwert wrote in his recent book, The Eliminationists, "if we can only identify fascism in its mature form—the goose-stepping brownshirts, the full-fledged use of violence and intimidation tactics, the mass rallies—then it will be far too late to stop it." Paxton (who presciently warned that "An authentic popular fascism in the United States would be pious and anti-Black") agrees that if a corporate/brownshirt alliance gets a toehold -- as ours is now scrambling to do -- it can very quickly rise to power and destroy the last vestiges of democratic government. Once they start racking up wins, the country will be doomed to take the whole ugly trip through the last two stages, with no turnoffs or pit stops between now and the end.

What awaits us? In stage four, as the duo assumes full control of the country, power struggles emerge between the brownshirt-bred party faithful and the institutions of the conservative elites -- church, military, professions, and business. The character of the regime is determined by who gets the upper hand. If the party members (who gained power through street thuggery) win, an authoritarian police state may well follow. If the conservatives can get them back under control, a more traditional theocracy, corporatocracy, or military regime can re-emerge over time. But in neither case will the results resemble the democracy that this alliance overthrew.

Paxton characterizes stage five as "radicalization or entropy." Radicalization is likely if the new regime scores a big military victory, which consolidates its power and whets its appetite for expansion and large-scale social engineering. (See: Germany) In the absence of a radicalizing event, entropy may set in, as the state gets lost in its own purposes and degenerates into incoherence. (See: Italy)

It's so easy right now to look at the melee on the right and discount it as pure political theater of the most absurdly ridiculous kind. It's a freaking puppet show. These people can't be serious. Sure, they're angry -- but they're also a minority, out of power and reduced to throwing tantrums. Grown-ups need to worry about them about as much as you'd worry about a furious five-year-old threatening to hold her breath until she turned blue.

Unfortunately, all the noise and bluster actually obscures the danger. These people are as serious as a lynch mob, and have already taken the first steps toward becoming one. And they're going to walk taller and louder and prouder now that their bumbling efforts at civil disobedience are being committed with the full sanction and support of the country's most powerful people, who are cynically using them in a last-ditch effort to save their own places of profit and prestige.

We've arrived. We are now parked on the exact spot where our best experts tell us full-blown fascism is born. Every day that the conservatives in Congress, the right-wing talking heads, and their noisy minions are allowed to hold up our ability to govern the country is another day we're slowly creeping across the final line beyond which, history tells us, no country has ever been able to return.

How do we pull back? That's my next post.

Parts II and III below:

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/200908...ii-last-turnoff


http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/200908...tance-long-haul

Andy Walker
QUOTE (Peter Lemkin @ Sep 13 2009, 08:32 PM) *
Fascist America: Are We There Yet?


Had more americans been stupid enough to listen to conspiracists like Harry Elmer Barnes you'd have got there 65 years ago.
Terry Mauro
Harry Elmer Barnes? It appears Mr Barnes get's nailed with the old familiar charge made by the Bnai Brith/ADL. The nasty old charge that he is does not believe the "Holocaust " happened. His other sin appears to be a truthful recounting of just who was responsible for the start of WWI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Elmer_Barnes

Andy, are you particularly close to the Bnai Brith and ADL organization?

PS-The old boy was right on the money when he said Germany bore no responsibility for WWI. That was a British operation from the start. America should have joined that war on the side of Germany and crushed the British. The world would be a better place today.
Mike Tribe
The views of people like Ms Mauro expressed above can only bring discredit to an education forum. Her views are lunatic, extreme, distasteful and totally at variance with any reputable historical research.

Andy, John, this latest post is not even a little bit funny...
Peter Lemkin
Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

From Hitler to Pinochet and beyond, history shows there are certain steps that any would-be dictator must take to destroy constitutional freedoms. And, argues Naomi Wolf, George Bush and his administration seem to be taking them all 

Naomi Wolf
The Guardian, Tuesday 24 April 2007
Article history
Last autumn, there was a military coup in Thailand. The leaders of the coup took a number of steps, rather systematically, as if they had a shopping list. In a sense, they did. Within a matter of days, democracy had been closed down: the coup leaders declared martial law, sent armed soldiers into residential areas, took over radio and TV stations, issued restrictions on the press, tightened some limits on travel, and took certain activists into custody.

They were not figuring these things out as they went along. If you look at history, you can see that there is essentially a blueprint for turning an open society into a dictatorship. That blueprint has been used again and again in more and less bloody, more and less terrifying ways. But it is always effective. It is very difficult and arduous to create and sustain a democracy - but history shows that closing one down is much simpler. You simply have to be willing to take the 10 steps.

As difficult as this is to contemplate, it is clear, if you are willing to look, that each of these 10 steps has already been initiated today in the United States by the Bush administration.

Because Americans like me were born in freedom, we have a hard time even considering that it is possible for us to become as unfree - domestically - as many other nations. Because we no longer learn much about our rights or our system of government - the task of being aware of the constitution has been outsourced from citizens' ownership to being the domain of professionals such as lawyers and professors - we scarcely recognise the checks and balances that the founders put in place, even as they are being systematically dismantled. Because we don't learn much about European history, the setting up of a department of "homeland" security - remember who else was keen on the word "homeland" - didn't raise the alarm bells it might have.

It is my argument that, beneath our very noses, George Bush and his administration are using time-tested tactics to close down an open society. It is time for us to be willing to think the unthinkable - as the author and political journalist Joe Conason, has put it, that it can happen here. And that we are further along than we realise.

Conason eloquently warned of the danger of American authoritarianism. I am arguing that we need also to look at the lessons of European and other kinds of fascism to understand the potential seriousness of the events we see unfolding in the US.

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

After we were hit on September 11 2001, we were in a state of national shock. Less than six weeks later, on October 26 2001, the USA Patriot Act was passed by a Congress that had little chance to debate it; many said that they scarcely had time to read it. We were told we were now on a "war footing"; we were in a "global war" against a "global caliphate" intending to "wipe out civilisation". There have been other times of crisis in which the US accepted limits on civil liberties, such as during the civil war, when Lincoln declared martial law, and the second world war, when thousands of Japanese-American citizens were interned. But this situation, as Bruce Fein of the American Freedom Agenda notes, is unprecedented: all our other wars had an endpoint, so the pendulum was able to swing back toward freedom; this war is defined as open-ended in time and without national boundaries in space - the globe itself is the battlefield. "This time," Fein says, "there will be no defined end."

Creating a terrifying threat - hydra-like, secretive, evil - is an old trick. It can, like Hitler's invocation of a communist threat to the nation's security, be based on actual events (one Wisconsin academic has faced calls for his dismissal because he noted, among other things, that the alleged communist arson, the Reichstag fire of February 1933, was swiftly followed in Nazi Germany by passage of the Enabling Act, which replaced constitutional law with an open-ended state of emergency). Or the terrifying threat can be based, like the National Socialist evocation of the "global conspiracy of world Jewry", on myth.

It is not that global Islamist terrorism is not a severe danger; of course it is. I am arguing rather that the language used to convey the nature of the threat is different in a country such as Spain - which has also suffered violent terrorist attacks - than it is in America. Spanish citizens know that they face a grave security threat; what we as American citizens believe is that we are potentially threatened with the end of civilisation as we know it. Of course, this makes us more willing to accept restrictions on our freedoms.

2. Create a gulag

Once you have got everyone scared, the next step is to create a prison system outside the rule of law (as Bush put it, he wanted the American detention centre at Guantánamo Bay to be situated in legal "outer space") - where torture takes place.

At first, the people who are sent there are seen by citizens as outsiders: troublemakers, spies, "enemies of the people" or "criminals". Initially, citizens tend to support the secret prison system; it makes them feel safer and they do not identify with the prisoners. But soon enough, civil society leaders - opposition members, labour activists, clergy and journalists - are arrested and sent there as well.

This process took place in fascist shifts or anti-democracy crackdowns ranging from Italy and Germany in the 1920s and 1930s to the Latin American coups of the 1970s and beyond. It is standard practice for closing down an open society or crushing a pro-democracy uprising.

With its jails in Iraq and Afghanistan, and, of course, Guantánamo in Cuba, where detainees are abused, and kept indefinitely without trial and without access to the due process of the law, America certainly has its gulag now. Bush and his allies in Congress recently announced they would issue no information about the secret CIA "black site" prisons throughout the world, which are used to incarcerate people who have been seized off the street.

Gulags in history tend to metastasise, becoming ever larger and more secretive, ever more deadly and formalised. We know from first-hand accounts, photographs, videos and government documents that people, innocent and guilty, have been tortured in the US-run prisons we are aware of and those we can't investigate adequately.

But Americans still assume this system and detainee abuses involve only scary brown people with whom they don't generally identify. It was brave of the conservative pundit William Safire to quote the anti-Nazi pastor Martin Niemöller, who had been seized as a political prisoner: "First they came for the Jews." Most Americans don't understand yet that the destruction of the rule of law at Guantánamo set a dangerous precedent for them, too.

By the way, the establishment of military tribunals that deny prisoners due process tends to come early on in a fascist shift. Mussolini and Stalin set up such tribunals. On April 24 1934, the Nazis, too, set up the People's Court, which also bypassed the judicial system: prisoners were held indefinitely, often in isolation, and tortured, without being charged with offences, and were subjected to show trials. Eventually, the Special Courts became a parallel system that put pressure on the regular courts to abandon the rule of law in favour of Nazi ideology when making decisions.

3. Develop a thug caste

When leaders who seek what I call a "fascist shift" want to close down an open society, they send paramilitary groups of scary young men out to terrorise citizens. The Blackshirts roamed the Italian countryside beating up communists; the Brownshirts staged violent rallies throughout Germany. This paramilitary force is especially important in a democracy: you need citizens to fear thug violence and so you need thugs who are free from prosecution.

The years following 9/11 have proved a bonanza for America's security contractors, with the Bush administration outsourcing areas of work that traditionally fell to the US military. In the process, contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars have been issued for security work by mercenaries at home and abroad. In Iraq, some of these contract operatives have been accused of involvement in torturing prisoners, harassing journalists and firing on Iraqi civilians. Under Order 17, issued to regulate contractors in Iraq by the one-time US administrator in Baghdad, Paul Bremer, these contractors are immune from prosecution

Yes, but that is in Iraq, you could argue; however, after Hurricane Katrina, the Department of Homeland Security hired and deployed hundreds of armed private security guards in New Orleans. The investigative journalist Jeremy Scahill interviewed one unnamed guard who reported having fired on unarmed civilians in the city. It was a natural disaster that underlay that episode - but the administration's endless war on terror means ongoing scope for what are in effect privately contracted armies to take on crisis and emergency management at home in US cities.

Thugs in America? Groups of angry young Republican men, dressed in identical shirts and trousers, menaced poll workers counting the votes in Florida in 2000. If you are reading history, you can imagine that there can be a need for "public order" on the next election day. Say there are protests, or a threat, on the day of an election; history would not rule out the presence of a private security firm at a polling station "to restore public order".

4. Set up an internal surveillance system

In Mussolini's Italy, in Nazi Germany, in communist East Germany, in communist China - in every closed society - secret police spy on ordinary people and encourage neighbours to spy on neighbours. The Stasi needed to keep only a minority of East Germans under surveillance to convince a majority that they themselves were being watched.

In 2005 and 2006, when James Risen and Eric Lichtblau wrote in the New York Times about a secret state programme to wiretap citizens' phones, read their emails and follow international financial transactions, it became clear to ordinary Americans that they, too, could be under state scrutiny.

In closed societies, this surveillance is cast as being about "national security"; the true function is to keep citizens docile and inhibit their activism and dissent.

5. Harass citizens' groups

The fifth thing you do is related to step four - you infiltrate and harass citizens' groups. It can be trivial: a church in Pasadena, whose minister preached that Jesus was in favour of peace, found itself being investigated by the Internal Revenue Service, while churches that got Republicans out to vote, which is equally illegal under US tax law, have been left alone.

Other harassment is more serious: the American Civil Liberties Union reports that thousands of ordinary American anti-war, environmental and other groups have been infiltrated by agents: a secret Pentagon database includes more than four dozen peaceful anti-war meetings, rallies or marches by American citizens in its category of 1,500 "suspicious incidents". The equally secret Counterintelligence Field Activity (Cifa) agency of the Department of Defense has been gathering information about domestic organisations engaged in peaceful political activities: Cifa is supposed to track "potential terrorist threats" as it watches ordinary US citizen activists. A little-noticed new law has redefined activism such as animal rights protests as "terrorism". So the definition of "terrorist" slowly expands to include the opposition.

6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release

This scares people. It is a kind of cat-and-mouse game. Nicholas D Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn, the investigative reporters who wrote China Wakes: the Struggle for the Soul of a Rising Power, describe pro-democracy activists in China, such as Wei Jingsheng, being arrested and released many times. In a closing or closed society there is a "list" of dissidents and opposition leaders: you are targeted in this way once you are on the list, and it is hard to get off the list.

In 2004, America's Transportation Security Administration confirmed that it had a list of passengers who were targeted for security searches or worse if they tried to fly. People who have found themselves on the list? Two middle-aged women peace activists in San Francisco; liberal Senator Edward Kennedy; a member of Venezuela's government - after Venezuela's president had criticised Bush; and thousands of ordinary US citizens.

Professor Walter F Murphy is emeritus of Princeton University; he is one of the foremost constitutional scholars in the nation and author of the classic Constitutional Democracy. Murphy is also a decorated former marine, and he is not even especially politically liberal. But on March 1 this year, he was denied a boarding pass at Newark, "because I was on the Terrorist Watch list".

"Have you been in any peace marches? We ban a lot of people from flying because of that," asked the airline employee.

"I explained," said Murphy, "that I had not so marched but had, in September 2006, given a lecture at Princeton, televised and put on the web, highly critical of George Bush for his many violations of the constitution."

"That'll do it," the man said.

Anti-war marcher? Potential terrorist. Support the constitution? Potential terrorist. History shows that the categories of "enemy of the people" tend to expand ever deeper into civil life.

James Yee, a US citizen, was the Muslim chaplain at Guantánamo who was accused of mishandling classified documents. He was harassed by the US military before the charges against him were dropped. Yee has been detained and released several times. He is still of interest.

Brandon Mayfield, a US citizen and lawyer in Oregon, was mistakenly identified as a possible terrorist. His house was secretly broken into and his computer seized. Though he is innocent of the accusation against him, he is still on the list.

It is a standard practice of fascist societies that once you are on the list, you can't get off.

7. Target key individuals

Threaten civil servants, artists and academics with job loss if they don't toe the line. Mussolini went after the rectors of state universities who did not conform to the fascist line; so did Joseph Goebbels, who purged academics who were not pro-Nazi; so did Chile's Augusto Pinochet; so does the Chinese communist Politburo in punishing pro-democracy students and professors.

Academe is a tinderbox of activism, so those seeking a fascist shift punish academics and students with professional loss if they do not "coordinate", in Goebbels' term, ideologically. Since civil servants are the sector of society most vulnerable to being fired by a given regime, they are also a group that fascists typically "coordinate" early on: the Reich Law for the Re-establishment of a Professional Civil Service was passed on April 7 1933.

Bush supporters in state legislatures in several states put pressure on regents at state universities to penalise or fire academics who have been critical of the administration. As for civil servants, the Bush administration has derailed the career of one military lawyer who spoke up for fair trials for detainees, while an administration official publicly intimidated the law firms that represent detainees pro bono by threatening to call for their major corporate clients to boycott them.

Elsewhere, a CIA contract worker who said in a closed blog that "waterboarding is torture" was stripped of the security clearance she needed in order to do her job.

Most recently, the administration purged eight US attorneys for what looks like insufficient political loyalty. When Goebbels purged the civil service in April 1933, attorneys were "coordinated" too, a step that eased the way of the increasingly brutal laws to follow.

8. Control the press

Italy in the 1920s, Germany in the 30s, East Germany in the 50s, Czechoslovakia in the 60s, the Latin American dictatorships in the 70s, China in the 80s and 90s - all dictatorships and would-be dictators target newspapers and journalists. They threaten and harass them in more open societies that they are seeking to close, and they arrest them and worse in societies that have been closed already.

The Committee to Protect Journalists says arrests of US journalists are at an all-time high: Josh Wolf (no relation), a blogger in San Francisco, has been put in jail for a year for refusing to turn over video of an anti-war demonstration; Homeland Security brought a criminal complaint against reporter Greg Palast, claiming he threatened "critical infrastructure" when he and a TV producer were filming victims of Hurricane Katrina in Louisiana. Palast had written a bestseller critical of the Bush administration.

Other reporters and writers have been punished in other ways. Joseph C Wilson accused Bush, in a New York Times op-ed, of leading the country to war on the basis of a false charge that Saddam Hussein had acquired yellowcake uranium in Niger. His wife, Valerie Plame, was outed as a CIA spy - a form of retaliation that ended her career.

Prosecution and job loss are nothing, though, compared with how the US is treating journalists seeking to cover the conflict in Iraq in an unbiased way. The Committee to Protect Journalists has documented multiple accounts of the US military in Iraq firing upon or threatening to fire upon unembedded (meaning independent) reporters and camera operators from organisations ranging from al-Jazeera to the BBC. While westerners may question the accounts by al-Jazeera, they should pay attention to the accounts of reporters such as the BBC's Kate Adie. In some cases reporters have been wounded or killed, including ITN's Terry Lloyd in 2003. Both CBS and the Associated Press in Iraq had staff members seized by the US military and taken to violent prisons; the news organisations were unable to see the evidence against their staffers.

Over time in closing societies, real news is supplanted by fake news and false documents. Pinochet showed Chilean citizens falsified documents to back up his claim that terrorists had been about to attack the nation. The yellowcake charge, too, was based on forged papers.

You won't have a shutdown of news in modern America - it is not possible. But you can have, as Frank Rich and Sidney Blumenthal have pointed out, a steady stream of lies polluting the news well. What you already have is a White House directing a stream of false information that is so relentless that it is increasingly hard to sort out truth from untruth. In a fascist system, it's not the lies that count but the muddying. When citizens can't tell real news from fake, they give up their demands for accountability bit by bit.

9. Dissent equals treason

Cast dissent as "treason" and criticism as "espionage'. Every closing society does this, just as it elaborates laws that increasingly criminalise certain kinds of speech and expand the definition of "spy" and "traitor". When Bill Keller, the publisher of the New York Times, ran the Lichtblau/Risen stories, Bush called the Times' leaking of classified information "disgraceful", while Republicans in Congress called for Keller to be charged with treason, and rightwing commentators and news outlets kept up the "treason" drumbeat. Some commentators, as Conason noted, reminded readers smugly that one penalty for violating the Espionage Act is execution.

Conason is right to note how serious a threat that attack represented. It is also important to recall that the 1938 Moscow show trial accused the editor of Izvestia, Nikolai Bukharin, of treason; Bukharin was, in fact, executed. And it is important to remind Americans that when the 1917 Espionage Act was last widely invoked, during the infamous 1919 Palmer Raids, leftist activists were arrested without warrants in sweeping roundups, kept in jail for up to five months, and "beaten, starved, suffocated, tortured and threatened with death", according to the historian Myra MacPherson. After that, dissent was muted in America for a decade.

In Stalin's Soviet Union, dissidents were "enemies of the people". National Socialists called those who supported Weimar democracy "November traitors".

And here is where the circle closes: most Americans do not realise that since September of last year - when Congress wrongly, foolishly, passed the Military Commissions Act of 2006 - the president has the power to call any US citizen an "enemy combatant". He has the power to define what "enemy combatant" means. The president can also delegate to anyone he chooses in the executive branch the right to define "enemy combatant" any way he or she wants and then seize Americans accordingly.

Even if you or I are American citizens, even if we turn out to be completely innocent of what he has accused us of doing, he has the power to have us seized as we are changing planes at Newark tomorrow, or have us taken with a knock on the door; ship you or me to a navy brig; and keep you or me in isolation, possibly for months, while awaiting trial. (Prolonged isolation, as psychiatrists know, triggers psychosis in otherwise mentally healthy prisoners. That is why Stalin's gulag had an isolation cell, like Guantánamo's, in every satellite prison. Camp 6, the newest, most brutal facility at Guantánamo, is all isolation cells.)

We US citizens will get a trial eventually - for now. But legal rights activists at the Center for Constitutional Rights say that the Bush administration is trying increasingly aggressively to find ways to get around giving even US citizens fair trials. "Enemy combatant" is a status offence - it is not even something you have to have done. "We have absolutely moved over into a preventive detention model - you look like you could do something bad, you might do something bad, so we're going to hold you," says a spokeswoman of the CCR.

Most Americans surely do not get this yet. No wonder: it is hard to believe, even though it is true. In every closing society, at a certain point there are some high-profile arrests - usually of opposition leaders, clergy and journalists. Then everything goes quiet. After those arrests, there are still newspapers, courts, TV and radio, and the facades of a civil society. There just isn't real dissent. There just isn't freedom. If you look at history, just before those arrests is where we are now.

10. Suspend the rule of law

The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 gave the president new powers over the national guard. This means that in a national emergency - which the president now has enhanced powers to declare - he can send Michigan's militia to enforce a state of emergency that he has declared in Oregon, over the objections of the state's governor and its citizens.

Even as Americans were focused on Britney Spears's meltdown and the question of who fathered Anna Nicole's baby, the New York Times editorialised about this shift: "A disturbing recent phenomenon in Washington is that laws that strike to the heart of American democracy have been passed in the dead of night ... Beyond actual insurrection, the president may now use military troops as a domestic police force in response to a natural disaster, a disease outbreak, terrorist attack or any 'other condition'."

Critics see this as a clear violation of the Posse Comitatus Act - which was meant to restrain the federal government from using the military for domestic law enforcement. The Democratic senator Patrick Leahy says the bill encourages a president to declare federal martial law. It also violates the very reason the founders set up our system of government as they did: having seen citizens bullied by a monarch's soldiers, the founders were terrified of exactly this kind of concentration of militias' power over American people in the hands of an oppressive executive or faction.

Of course, the United States is not vulnerable to the violent, total closing-down of the system that followed Mussolini's march on Rome or Hitler's roundup of political prisoners. Our democratic habits are too resilient, and our military and judiciary too independent, for any kind of scenario like that.

Rather, as other critics are noting, our experiment in democracy could be closed down by a process of erosion.

It is a mistake to think that early in a fascist shift you see the profile of barbed wire against the sky. In the early days, things look normal on the surface; peasants were celebrating harvest festivals in Calabria in 1922; people were shopping and going to the movies in Berlin in 1931. Early on, as WH Auden put it, the horror is always elsewhere - while someone is being tortured, children are skating, ships are sailing: "dogs go on with their doggy life ... How everything turns away/ Quite leisurely from the disaster."

As Americans turn away quite leisurely, keeping tuned to internet shopping and American Idol, the foundations of democracy are being fatally corroded. Something has changed profoundly that weakens us unprecedentedly: our democratic traditions, independent judiciary and free press do their work today in a context in which we are "at war" in a "long war" - a war without end, on a battlefield described as the globe, in a context that gives the president - without US citizens realising it yet - the power over US citizens of freedom or long solitary incarceration, on his say-so alone.

That means a hollowness has been expanding under the foundation of all these still- free-looking institutions - and this foundation can give way under certain kinds of pressure. To prevent such an outcome, we have to think about the "what ifs".

What if, in a year and a half, there is another attack - say, God forbid, a dirty bomb? The executive can declare a state of emergency. History shows that any leader, of any party, will be tempted to maintain emergency powers after the crisis has passed. With the gutting of traditional checks and balances, we are no less endangered by a President Hillary than by a President Giuliani - because any executive will be tempted to enforce his or her will through edict rather than the arduous, uncertain process of democratic negotiation and compromise.

What if the publisher of a major US newspaper were charged with treason or espionage, as a rightwing effort seemed to threaten Keller with last year? What if he or she got 10 years in jail? What would the newspapers look like the next day? Judging from history, they would not cease publishing; but they would suddenly be very polite.

Right now, only a handful of patriots are trying to hold back the tide of tyranny for the rest of us - staff at the Center for Constitutional Rights, who faced death threats for representing the detainees yet persisted all the way to the Supreme Court; activists at the American Civil Liberties Union; and prominent conservatives trying to roll back the corrosive new laws, under the banner of a new group called the American Freedom Agenda. This small, disparate collection of people needs everybody's help, including that of Europeans and others internationally who are willing to put pressure on the administration because they can see what a US unrestrained by real democracy at home can mean for the rest of the world.

We need to look at history and face the "what ifs". For if we keep going down this road, the "end of America" could come for each of us in a different way, at a different moment; each of us might have a different moment when we feel forced to look back and think: that is how it was before - and this is the way it is now.

"The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands ... is the definition of tyranny," wrote James Madison. We still have the choice to stop going down this road; we can stand our ground and fight for our nation, and take up the banner the founders asked us to carry.

· Naomi Wolf's The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot will be published by Chelsea Green
Andy Walker
QUOTE (Mike Tribe @ Sep 14 2009, 06:32 AM) *
The views of people like Ms Mauro expressed above can only bring discredit to an education forum. Her views are lunatic, extreme, distasteful and totally at variance with any reputable historical research.

Andy, John, this latest post is not even a little bit funny...


I agree Mike. And it serves to illustrate just where a conspiracy mind set is apt to lead one viz an extreme right wing position. The bitter irony is that many of them regard themselves as 'progressives'.
Peter Lemkin
What is Fascism? A Few Quotations ... [more]
http://www.rattlesnake.com/notions/fascism-2.html
I have read a book 1 by Robert Paxton called The Anatomy of Fascism.

Robert Paxton says:

.... fascism should not be discussed without reaching, at some point in the debate, an agreed concepts of what it is. This book proposes to arrive at such a concept at the end of its question, rather than to start with one. I propose to set aside for now the imperative of definition, and examine in action of core set of movements and regimes generally accepts as fascist.... (p 15)

He goes on to say:

I propose to examine fascism in a cycle of five states: (1) the creation of movements; (2) their rooting in the political system; (3) their seizure of power; (4) the exercise of power; (5) and, finally, the long duration, during which the fascist regime chooses either radicalization or entropy. (p 23)

And Paxton then does so. He puts his definition at the end. However, I will place Paxton's definition — actually, two quotations from the end of his book — here at the beginning of this series of quotations:
What is Fascism?

Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion. (p 218)

... mobilizing passions:
a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond the reach of any traditional solutions;
the primacy of the groups, toward which one has duties superior to every right, whether individual or universal, and the subordination of the individual to it;
the belief that one's group is a victim, a sentiment that justifies any action, without legal or moral limits, against its enemies, both internal and external;
dread of the group's decline under the corrosive effects of individualistic liberalism, class conflict, and alien influences;
the need for closer integration of a purer community, by consent if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary;
the need for authority by natural chiefs (always mail), culminating in a national chieftain who alone is capable of incarnating the group's historical destiny;
the superiority of the leader's instincts over abstract and universal reason;
the beauty of violence and efficacy of will, when they are devoted to the group's success;
the right of the chosen people to dominate others without restraints from any kind of human or divine law, right being decided by the sole criterion of the group's prowess within a Darwinian struggle.
(p 219 – 220)


Earlier, I described my strong ideas on the subject. I wrote that

... I thought that it had been fairly well agreed that fascism was an authoritarian movement of those who had lost in the transition to the modern, who were not against certain technologies of the modern, and who were willing to make alliances with capitalists and conservatives against communist authoritarians.

Paxton ends up giving the definition that I quote above. He touches on the alternative concepts, which I quote here without his criticisms of them:

The sociologist Talcott Parsons suggested already in 1942 that fascism emerged out of uprooting and tensions produced by uneven economic and social development .... Another sociological approach alleged that urban and industrial leveling since the late nineteenth century had produced an atomized mass society in which purveyors of simple hatreds found a ready audience unrestrained by tradition of community. .... The sociologist Seymour Martin Lipset systematized in 1963 the widely held view that fascism is an expression of lower-middle-class resentments ... an "extremism of the center" based on the rage of once-independent shopkeepers, artisans, peasants, and other members of the "old" middle classes now squeezed between better-organized industrial workers and big businessmen .... (p 209 – 210)

As early as World War II, the American ethnographer Gregory Bateson employed "the sort of analysis that an anthropology applies to the mythology of a primitive or modern people" to pick apart the themes and techniques of the Nazi propaganda film Hitler Youth Quex. (p 214)

Returning to the sequence that Paxton himself follows, here are quotations of what I felt important in the book:

More generally, conservatives in Europe still rejected in 1930 the main tenets of the French Revolution, preferring authority to liberty, hierarchy to equality, and deference to fraternity. Although many of them might find fascists useful or even essential, in their struggle for survival against dominant liberals and a rising Left, some were keenly away of the different agenda of their fascist allies and felt a fastidious distaste for these uncouth outsiders. Where simple authoritarianism sufficed conservatives must preferred that. (p 22)

The fascisms we have known have come into power with the help of frightened ex-liberals and opportunist technocrats and ex-conservatives, and governed in more or less awkward tandem with them. (p 23)

The failure of fascism in France was not due to some mysterious allergy, though the importance of the republican tradition for a majority of French people's sense of themselves cannot be overestimated. The Depression, for all its ravages, was less severe in France than in more industrially concentrated Britain and Germany. The Third Republic, for all its lurching, never suffered deadlock or total paralysis. Mainstream conservatives did not feel sufficiently threatened in the 1930s to call on fascists for help. Finally, no one preeminent personage managed to dominate the small army of rival French fascist chefs, most of whom preferred intransigent doctrinal `purity' to the kind of deal making with conservatives that Mussolini and Hitler practiced. (p 71)

... fascist interlopers cannot easily break into a political system that is functioning tolerably well. Only when the state and existing institutions fail badly do they open opportunities for newcomers. (p 72 – 73)

Although conservatives might accept violence against socialists and trade unionists, they would not tolerate it against the state. .... ...those very elements — the army and the police — that the fascists would need later for planning and carrying out aggressive national expansion. (p 98)

... fascist success in reaching power varies less with the brilliance of fascist intellectuals and the qualities of fascist chiefs than with the depth of crisis and the desperation of potential allies. (p 115)

German and Italian conservatives wanted to harness the fascists' power in public opinion, in the street, and in the nationalist and antisocialist sections of the middle and working classes to their own leadership. They seem to have believed that it was too late to demobilize the public politically. It must be won over to the national and antisocialist cause, for it was too late to reduce it once more to nineteenth-century deference. (p 115)

.... No dictator rules by himself. he must obtain the cooperation, or at the acquiescence, of the decisive agencies of rule — the military, the police, the judiciary, senior civil servants — and of powerful social and economic forces. In the special case of fascism, having depended upon conservative elites to open the gates to him, the new leaders could shunt them casually aside. Some degree, at least, of obligatory power sharing with the preexisting conservative establishment made fascist dictatorships fundamentally different in their origins, development, and practice from that of Stalin. (p 119)

All these enduring tensions within fascist regimes pitted against each other four elements that together forged these dictatorships out of their quarrelsome collaboration: the fascist leader; his party (who militants clamored for jobs, perquisites, expansionist adventures, and the fulfillment of some elements of their early radical programs); the state apparatus (functionaries such as police and military commanders, magistrates, and local governors); and, finally, civil society (holders of social, economic, political, and cultural power such as professional associations, leaders of big business and big agriculture, churches, and conservative political leaders). This four-way tension gave these regimes their characteristic blend of febrile activism and shapelessness. (p 123 – 124)

... the deliberate arousal of expectations of dynamism, excitement, momentum, and risk that were inherent to fascism's appeal, and which it was dangerous to abandon completely for fear of undermining the leader's principal source of power independent of the old elites. (p 153)

The orderly procedures of bureaucracy gave way to the wild unstructured improvisations of inexperienced party militants thrust into ill-defined positions of authority over conquered peoples. (p 158)

In the end, fanatical fascists prefer to destroy everything in a final paroxysm, even their own country, rather than admit defeat. (p 171)

The Anatomy of Fascism,
Robert 0. Paxton,
2004, Alfred A. Knopf,
ISBN 1-4000-4094-9
John Simkin
QUOTE (Terry Mauro @ Sep 14 2009, 01:34 AM) *
The old boy was right on the money when he said Germany bore no responsibility for WWI. That was a British operation from the start. America should have joined that war on the side of Germany and crushed the British. The world would be a better place today.


The reason the Americans joined the war in 1917 was as the result of the lobbying of the the munitions industry. The USA joined the side of Allies instead of Germany in order to protect the banker's investments in Britain and France.

In 1933 Dorothy Detzer, executive secretary of the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom, approached Gerald P. Nye, George Norris and Robert La Follette and asked them to instigate a Senate investigation into the international munitions industry. They agreed and on 8th February, 1934, Nye submitted a Senate Resolution calling for an investigation of the munitions industry by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee under Key Pittman of Nevada. Pittman disliked the idea and the resolution was referred to the Military Affairs Committee. It was eventually combined with one introduced earlier by Arthur H. Vandenberg of Michigan, who sought to take the profits out of war.

The Military Affairs Committee accepted the proposal and as well as Nye and Vandenberg, the Munitions Investigating Committee included James P. Pope of Idaho, Homer T. Bone of Washington, Joel B. Clark of Missouri, Walter F. George of Georgia and W. Warren Barbour of New Jersey. Alger Hiss was the committee's legal assistant. John T. Flynn, a writer with the New Republic magazine, was recruited and wrote most of the reports published by the committee.

Public hearings before the Munitions Investigating Committee began on 4th September, 1934. In the reports published by the committee it was claimed that there was a strong link between the American government's decision to enter the First World War and the lobbying of the the munitions industry. The committee was also highly critical of the nation's bankers. In a speech in 1936 Gerald P. Nye argued that "the record of facts makes it altogether fair to say that these bankers were in the heart and center of a system that made our going to war inevitable".

Gerald P. Nye remained a staunch isolationist during the emergence of Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini in Europe. In August 1940, Nye attacked President Franklin D. Roosevelt for giving the leaders of England and France "reason to believe that if they would declare war on Germany, help would be forthcoming." He went on to argue that the United States had "sold out, by deliberate falsification, the two European nations with which we had the closest ties. We sent France to her death and have brought England perilously close to it."

On 15th April, 1940, Gerald P. Nye told a meeting in Pennsylvania that the European war was not "worthy of the sacrifice of one American mule, much less one American son." He also argued that "Russia, Stalin and communist ideology" would eventually win from the Second World War. How right he was.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAnyeG.htm
Len Colby
QUOTE (Terry Mauro @ Sep 13 2009, 09:34 PM) *
Harry Elmer Barnes? It appears Mr Barnes get's nailed with the old familiar charge made by the Bnai Brith/ADL. The nasty old charge that he is does not believe the "Holocaust " happened. His other sin appears to be a truthful recounting of just who was responsible for the start of WWI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Elmer_Barnes

Andy, are you particularly close to the Bnai Brith and ADL organization?


Amazing, Mauro cites Barnes Wikipedia bio to defend him from the charge he was a Holocaust denier but documents that he was one! The full text of the Lipstadt book can be read here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2974460/Deborah-...g-The-Holocaust

QUOTE
PS-The old boy was right on the money when he said Germany bore no responsibility for WWI. That was a British operation from the start. America should have joined that war on the side of Germany and crushed the British. The world would be a better place today.


The Fascist cretin also praised Hitler and said that Germany was forced into WW2 by British and French aggression.

I imagine no one will be surprised you are a fan, he was buddies with Willis Carto whose publication you used to subscribe to and who hung out with you fuhrer.
Andy Walker
QUOTE (Len Colby @ Sep 14 2009, 12:20 PM) *
QUOTE (Terry Mauro @ Sep 13 2009, 09:34 PM) *
Harry Elmer Barnes? It appears Mr Barnes get's nailed with the old familiar charge made by the Bnai Brith/ADL. The nasty old charge that he is does not believe the "Holocaust " happened. His other sin appears to be a truthful recounting of just who was responsible for the start of WWI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Elmer_Barnes

Andy, are you particularly close to the Bnai Brith and ADL organization?


Amazing, Mauro cites Barnes Wikipedia bio to defend him from the charge he was a Holocaust denier but documents that he was one! The full text of the Lipstadt book can be read here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2974460/Deborah-...g-The-Holocaust

QUOTE
PS-The old boy was right on the money when he said Germany bore no responsibility for WWI. That was a British operation from the start. America should have joined that war on the side of Germany and crushed the British. The world would be a better place today.


The Fascist cretin also praised Hitler and said that Germany was forced into WW2 by British and French aggression.

I imagine no one will be surprised you are a fan, he was buddies with Willis Carto whose publication you used to subscribe to and who hung out with you fuhrer.


There would appear to be a ideological link between fascism and today's lunatic fringe of conspiricism. Scratch the surface of one of these self styled 'truthers' and 'progressives' and you'll often find the oldest conspiracy of them all ...... viz the jews did it.
Peter Lemkin
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Sep 14 2009, 01:40 PM) *
There would appear to be a ideological link between fascism and today's lunatic fringe of conspiricism. Scratch the surface of one of these self styled 'truthers' and 'progressives' and you'll often find the oldest conspiracy of them all ...... viz the jews did it.


Ignoring the rest of your diatribe, and drivel, you struck a nerve now! I am a secular Jew and VERY proud of that lineage. My uncle Raphael Lemkin, the coiner of the word Genocide, the writer of the Genocide Treaty at the U.N. and a prominent legal expert AT the Nuremberg Trials was a practicing Jew. To conflate 911 Truth people [or what you loathe and moniker 'progressives'] en masse with 'the Jews did it' tripe is outrageous, offensive, wrong. The 'lunatic fringe', as you call it, are those who can see no conspiracy at all - anywhere - ever, IMO, and see the the Emperor butt-naked as fully clothed, and all well in the Kingdom - all controlled correctly by checks and balances, and handled by responsible, truthful, altruistic, leaders and Oligarchs. While a few Jews are right wing and a few even fascist, sadly, more than any other group I know count themselves in the leagues of the progressives, radicals, revolutionaries, questioners of official truths and anti-fascists. I'd gladly site names. Utter garbage!
Andy Walker
QUOTE (Peter Lemkin @ Sep 14 2009, 04:42 PM) *
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Sep 14 2009, 01:40 PM) *
There would appear to be a ideological link between fascism and today's lunatic fringe of conspiricism. Scratch the surface of one of these self styled 'truthers' and 'progressives' and you'll often find the oldest conspiracy of them all ...... viz the jews did it.


Ignoring the rest of your diatribe, and drivel, you struck a nerve now! I am a secular Jew and VERY proud of that lineage. My uncle Raphael Lemkin, the coiner of the word Genocide, the writer of the Genocide Treaty at the U.N. and a prominent legal expert AT the Nuremberg Trials was a practicing Jew. To conflate 911 Truth people [or what you loathe and moniker 'progressives'] en masse with 'the Jews did it' tripe is outrageous, offensive, wrong. The 'lunatic fringe', as you call it, are those who can see no conspiracy at all - anywhere - ever, IMO, and see the the Emperor butt-naked as fully clothed, and all well in the Kingdom - all controlled correctly by checks and balances, and handled by responsible, truthful, altruistic, leaders and Oligarchs. While a few Jews are right wing and a few even fascist, sadly, more than any other group I know count themselves in the leagues of the progressives, radicals, revolutionaries, questioners of official truths and anti-fascists. I'd gladly site names. Utter garbage!


Interesting points Peter. What do you think then of the work of Eric Hufschmid and Christopher Bolleyn to name but two - 'truthers' 'loathesome' or both??
Is not the holocaust an 'official truth'? If all narratives are relative we are lost.
Incidentally could you list for me any conspiracy theory you do not believe?? - indulge me - I'll find it interesting
Terry Mauro
QUOTE (Len Colby @ Sep 14 2009, 11:20 AM) *
QUOTE (Terry Mauro @ Sep 13 2009, 09:34 PM) *
Harry Elmer Barnes? It appears Mr Barnes get's nailed with the old familiar charge made by the Bnai Brith/ADL. The nasty old charge that he is does not believe the "Holocaust " happened. His other sin appears to be a truthful recounting of just who was responsible for the start of WWI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Elmer_Barnes

Andy, are you particularly close to the Bnai Brith and ADL organization?


Amazing, Mauro cites Barnes Wikipedia bio to defend him from the charge he was a Holocaust denier but documents that he was one! The full text of the Lipstadt book can be read here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2974460/Deborah-...g-The-Holocaust

QUOTE
PS-The old boy was right on the money when he said Germany bore no responsibility for WWI. That was a British operation from the start. America should have joined that war on the side of Germany and crushed the British. The world would be a better place today.


The Fascist cretin also praised Hitler and said that Germany was forced into WW2 by British and French aggression.

I imagine no one will be surprised you are a fan, he was buddies with Willis Carto whose publication you used to subscribe to and who hung out with you fuhrer.


If you could read and think you might have refrained from making this claim.

I simply pointed out that the charges made against him have been made against others, and in many of those cases the charges were politically motivated, lacking in any real truth. The charge of holocaust denier is sort of the calling card of the Bnai Brith and ADL.
He may have been a bad guy I don't know.

Andy Walker
QUOTE (Terry Mauro @ Sep 15 2009, 06:19 AM) *
I don't know.


Very true. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to stop you posting.
Evan Burton
I wouldn't give any type of 'percentage' without careful study, but there are a significant number of "Truthers" who claim the "the Jews did it". I'm a little surprised at Peter's indignation, when some of his 'other forum' members subscribe to such a belief.
Andy Walker
QUOTE (Evan Burton @ Sep 15 2009, 11:08 AM) *
I wouldn't give any type of 'percentage' without careful study, but there are a significant number of "Truthers" who claim the "the Jews did it". I'm a little surprised at Peter's indignation, when some of his 'other forum' members subscribe to such a belief.


A great many conspiracists are openly anti semitic - others are 'anti -zionist' - a 'zionist' being presumably a big bad super jew.
http://www.adl.org/main_Anti_Semitism_Dome...cy_theories.htm

Conspiracy thinking thrives on the creation and blaming of 'outgroups'. Moreover with the sort of 'community validation' such thinking will get in online communities where alternative views are proscribed (DPF) this will only get worse.
Terry Mauro
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Sep 15 2009, 08:26 AM) *
QUOTE (Terry Mauro @ Sep 15 2009, 06:19 AM) *
I don't know.


Very true. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to stop you posting.


So Andy, do you have a connection to the Bnai Brith or ADL? You act like one of their trained seals so I was just wondering.

Terry Mauro
QUOTE (Mike Tribe @ Sep 14 2009, 04:32 AM) *
The views of people like Ms Mauro expressed above can only bring discredit to an education forum. Her views are lunatic, extreme, distasteful and totally at variance with any reputable historical research.

Andy, John, this latest post is not even a little bit funny...


It wasnt meant to be funny. The British planned and started WWI.

Andy Walker
QUOTE (Terry Mauro @ Sep 15 2009, 01:40 PM) *
QUOTE (Mike Tribe @ Sep 14 2009, 04:32 AM) *
The views of people like Ms Mauro expressed above can only bring discredit to an education forum. Her views are lunatic, extreme, distasteful and totally at variance with any reputable historical research.

Andy, John, this latest post is not even a little bit funny...


It wasnt meant to be funny. The British planned and started WWI.


Oh dear - here are some lesson activities I use with 13 year olds which may help you develop your understanding
http://www.educationforum.co.uk/KS3_2/causesworldwar1.htm
Terry Mauro
Fascism, are we there yet?

You tell me

http://www.newsweek.com/id/215291?GT1=43002
Terry Mauro
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Sep 15 2009, 02:59 PM) *
QUOTE (Terry Mauro @ Sep 15 2009, 01:40 PM) *
QUOTE (Mike Tribe @ Sep 14 2009, 04:32 AM) *
The views of people like Ms Mauro expressed above can only bring discredit to an education forum. Her views are lunatic, extreme, distasteful and totally at variance with any reputable historical research.

Andy, John, this latest post is not even a little bit funny...


It wasnt meant to be funny. The British planned and started WWI.


Oh dear - here are some lesson activities I use with 13 year olds which may help you develop your understanding
http://www.educationforum.co.uk/KS3_2/causesworldwar1.htm


Andy, you never answered my question. Are you connected to the Bnai Brith/ADL?

Andy Walker
QUOTE (Terry Mauro @ Sep 16 2009, 02:30 PM) *
QUOTE (Andy Walker @ Sep 15 2009, 02:59 PM) *
QUOTE (Terry Mauro @ Sep 15 2009, 01:40 PM) *
QUOTE (Mike Tribe @ Sep 14 2009, 04:32 AM) *
The views of people like Ms Mauro expressed above can only bring discredit to an education forum. Her views are lunatic, extreme, distasteful and totally at variance with any reputable historical research.

Andy, John, this latest post is not even a little bit funny...


It wasnt meant to be funny. The British planned and started WWI.


Oh dear - here are some lesson activities I use with 13 year olds which may help you develop your understanding
http://www.educationforum.co.uk/KS3_2/causesworldwar1.htm


Andy, you never answered my question. Are you connected to the Bnai Brith/ADL?


I didn't think it was worthy of a response. I am not connected to or involved with any organisations other than my professional association. It would be convenient if everyone who disagreed with you could be clasified so neatly - for instance Aaronovitch is Jewish this does not necessarily make him part of an Israeli conspiracy. Life is seldom as neat as this.
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