Psychiatrists to blame for 911.

Yes, forget all your notions about bombs, missiles hitting the Pentagon, ghost planes and all, the answer was right under our noses all along, evil shrinks pre-programmed Bin Laden, actually a nice regular freedom fighter, to do the deed. Posted mainly for jolly, but I would like to get into just what Scientology beef with Mental health is really all about.

Whilst the hyperbole in the title used on this post and the article do, at first blush, seem rather 'far out' - the actual content of the link posted, in summary, equates to the opinion a great deal of people, respected and sane (as far as I can tell), on this forum, in that many major catastrophic world events have had a person, suspected of being programmed, a la MK-Ultra, at the helm.

This is not a new, jolly and/or ridiculous notion.

Using Scientology as a medium for refuting the wholisitc possibility that many murderers are programmed by doctors, specialising in the mind and drug effects thereon, by using one specifc example and linking this to the conspiracy breeding ground of 911 is no more than a crude attempt to influence weak minded people - 2 birds one stone.

Bin Laden, the bogey-man construct created and programmed by a foreign intelligence agency is not really that hard to digest...it is, in fact, more likely to be true.

I hope you don't post that Freddie Starr didn't also eat your hamster.

Gary, Firstly I didn't link this to 911, leading scientologists did, unless you belive I have some mind control over them. Seconly, although an attempt at humour, crude I'll admit, but I do have form here, as the last line indicated I would like to use it to look more deeply into the cult of Scientology, and, more specifically, their crusade against mainstream Psychiatry.

OTFOI, this seems a persuasive theory. Certainly, a lot of potential clients have been flushed out... Reading these threads would seem to be a rich source of income for mental health professionals.

Who is it again that would need to program a very rich man whose family has had long ties with the Saudi government and with various US administrations; whose anti-Russian jihad in Afghanistan was US-backed; and whose rejection of the Saudi royals is a transparent sham? Is that accomplished with psychiatry, or capitalism?

No Gary it is a mad notion. Doctors or psychiatrists do not ‘programme’ anyone. (I can only assume that West Ham's run of recent form has unhinged the balance of your mind).
It is also a notion that conveniently absolves other members of society from blame for the monsters they help to create.
However if you want something more tangible to 'point the finger' at I suggest Religion. Bin Laden is dripping with it. This will give you temporary respite on the journey to David Andrews' conclusion.

Scientology's opposition to psychiatry is interesting and probably warrants a separate thread(?)

It is most assuredly not a mad notion, and whilst I didn't exhibit my typical good humour in response to Stephen, it certainly wasn't meant as a reproach to him, especially given I share much of his world view sensibilities. For the lack of this being obvious, I apologise. West Ham, though, I can't apologise for, nor should you assume the balance of my mind was ever hinged. I would be most disappointed if the results came back and said it once was.

Similarly, Andy, I accept with good humour and grace your reproach of my views and I mean this sincerely. With equal sincerity I think you have spent too long with your head down in the sand (bad golfing advice there ). I agree though that, routinely, doctors do not programme anyone. Who, though, are these 'other members of society'?

I don't believe in psychiatry at all - but aren't they the crowd that can prescribe drugs (one solution fits all programming) as opposed to psychologists (genuinely not sure which is which (don't believe in either, actually, anyway - I think it's all in their heads)). However, I cannot accept that you do not believe, in non-routine, very specific, circumstances, doctors have been involved in programmes which have been established to programme human minds for murder...it has already been admitted as fact by the bastion of all righteousness the CIA.

As for religion, by any non-conspiracy theorist measure this is the greatest conspiracy ever, given there is no proof whatsoever. Len, Craig and yourself could never believe in this lunacy. Not even Jack White could produce a photo of God and if he did you'd all call him a fraud anyway, and no Government agency has produced a report (to the best of my knowledge) confirming God's existence, and if it existed Jack et. al. would call it a fraud anyway...therefore he definitely does/doesn't exist - much like yer man's cat. The bible, in my opinion, is possibly the first Warren report, Widgery report, Lowe report, ad infintitum (if that means everything I've forgotten - never did Latin at our school).

There is much in your suspicion of 'big pharma' posts which would, reading between the lines (I admit I haven't re-read them prior to posting, but it would seem from memory your suspiscions of 'Big Pharma' actually prove a lot of what you're attempting to disprove) be the broad base for an Ashton Gray style book...and he, of course, is suspected of being an arch Scientologist.

As for Scientology, I may not agree with it wholesale or at all (full disclosure- I don't really know what it's about!!), but there is enough in the 'disappearence' of its founder and consequent events which lead me to believe all is not what it seems in that sphere. Interestingly the Free Presbyterian Church in NI, have less than 1% of the unionist populace (much less than Scientology, if both are considered religions) in NI, making them a smaller 'cult' than Scientology and yet your government has pandered to them without exception since their formation. Do you know why?

Finally and the greatest insult I can bring myself to bear on you...at least we don't have Lucas!

I have long been working on producing an image of God. I see him as an artist, a designer, a builder, a creator,
an inventor, an architect, if you will. I am an admirer of God, but I do not see him as a religious figure, but as
a painter of beautiful sunsets and sculptor of the Grand Canyon, the planter of giant sequoia trees as well as
fields of flowers. I believe God takes little notice of the charlatans who promote cults claiming to work in the
name of God. God is too busy making the ever-changing universe and the air we breath to bother with frauds.
I became an artist, photographer and a creator of beautiful things, using God's handiwork as a role model.
If I ever produce an image of God, I will post it here. It is a hard assignment. Few have ever seen Him.

Jack

Can't speak for Len or Andy but God does exist.

Not yet you don't but roll on the January window
on the other points - done quickly because I have a class to teach
1.Big Pharma acts as all capitalist enterprises do, they seek to make maximum profits - when one understands the anti social consequences of this one understands the need for regulation.
2. The 'other members of society' are us.
3. God is 'unwell'.

It may indeed look like 'design' Jack but the reality is a great deal more complex and a great deal more beautiful.

Bin-Laden’s family of course is huge, he had by most accounts about 55 siblings. According to biographers like Peter Bergen and Lawrence Wright he was largely an outsider even within his extended family, his Syrian mother was more erudite than Mohammed bin-Laden’s other wives and she didn’t get along with them. She and his father were divorced shortly after his birth and he was their only child together. He spent much more time in his mother’s than his father’s household but having been raised apart even when he was with his brothers he didn’t fit in especially after their father died when he was 10. They went to fancy boarding schools in Lebanon he went to an elite but free one in Jeddah.

AFAIK other than some limited business dealings with the Bushes the bin-Laden’s didn’t have any “ties with… US administrations”.



OBL was not a major player in the “anti-Russian jihad in Afghanistan” and his role was mostly as a money man and recruiter. I’ve never seen any evidence that there were ties between him or his group and the US at the time, can you produce any?

Even If true it would not prove anything there are numerous examples of formers allies falling out for example the US collaborated with the USSR during WWII but then became bitter enemies, the Israelis backed groups in Lebanon that turned against them etc etc.



What is your basis for that conclusion? I don’t know of any serious researcher who says this.

The genus of any antithesis is always in the genus. That is how we recognise it.
For this reason I for one would be most unhappy if any of my loved ones fell into the hands of either a scientologist or a psychiatrist

A member of my family suffers from severe bipolar disorder and is under the treatment of a psychiatrist for same. My understanding of the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist is that a psychiatrist is basically a psychologist with an MD. I would much prefer an AMA licensed psychiatrist for the treatment of bipolar disorder than a scientologist, who are not licensed or certified by any governmental agency. My understanding of the beef scientology has with psychiatry is that they do not believe that such associated mental disorders as bipolar disorder require treatment with medication. My information has been garnered primarily from the media but scientology's position is hardly a kept secret.

By the way, I could hardly recognize you from your new photo. Must be the lack of formal attire. I was considering a new professional head shot, but now I'll just wait for my renewed driver's license photo.

You are quite right. A serious mental health problem needs the attention of a qualified and regulated professional. However much has been done in the name of psychiatry which has been harmful, reductionist (pill cures complex emotional problem) and ill informed. It is this that Scientology recognises from within itself.

Re my avatar - I am now 15 years older than the original one and thought I'd share the improvement with others