A Robin Unger & Martin Hindrichs collaboration:

Inspired by research done by Tom Purvis,Chris Davidson,Randy Owen.



Marie Muchmore and Wilma Bond were friends and co workers, on the 22/11/63 they left there place of work and went down to view the motorcade, with the intention of filming the president.

The pair were both standing (side by side} opposite the corner of Main & Houston.

After the motorcade had past the pair then moved to a second position at the peristyle wall, near what wilma Bond described in her Clay Shaw trial testimony as " Pigeon Holes "

First and second Camera positions of Wilma Bond & Marie Muchmore


Muchmore Camera Positions GIF








Cutler / Sprague










Dealey Plaza 1968

This part i give credit to Martin's good eye for details !


The Muchmore position is mapped by the snapshot frames above which came from the Discovery Channel DVD " Murder in Dealey Plaza " Gary Mack was personally involved so i trust this position to be correct.


But Martin and myself had to then Confirm it.


Thanks to Martin's keen eye he happened to notice that there was a "thick white road stripe" that ran across Houston st near the Main Houston Intersection. ( This is the key to finding Wilma Bonds Position )

This is how we finally pin pointed Wilma Bond's first camera position. Bond 1




This is Wilma Bonds first picture. ( keep your eye on the thick white strip running under the front car tire )

Frame from the Muchmore Film.

The front tire of the Limo is now resting in between the "thick road stripe" and the thiner one at the back of the front wheel.

Some months ago Randy Owen speculated that the blury shape seen in Bond (1) may infact be the back of "Marie Muchmore's" head.



Given the fact that Moorman & Bond were standing side by side during the period of the assassination.


I now beleive there is a STRONG possibility that Randy's observation may be correct.!

Good work. I guess it is now possible to place all this and other information into a 3D computer program and then look from any position at the scene and to see who is where [or possible to be there / not possible to be there], etc. Wasn't someone going to do that once?.....hell of a lot of work, but well worth the effort, I think. The various photos can also be included - even timings.

For Robin.



chris

Muchmore over Bond.


Very Nice.

Thanks Chris.

Thanks Peter.

Funny you say that, Martin Hindrichs is a 3D specialist.
He has his own 3D Company.



I know that Martin has been trying to gain membership to the Education Forum for some months, but as yet he has not received any response to his Emails from John Simkin.
that is a great pity, because they are missing out on the skills of a great photo anylist.


This is his work.



Moorman 3


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John i wrote to you and asked about martin joining the ef...quite some time back you wrote me that if he sent you his bio photo etc he would be given a membership....i sent martin your address he wrote in return then and said he had sent all..to you.....i am wondering what went wrong as to what the problem was..as yes this forum has been missing out on access to this man's great photo analyst abilities. what a team this. opportunity could have presented re chris , martin and robbin...and...working in unison on this board...to possibly further the research which is why we are all here, imo...thanks..robin for bringing attention to this...b..

Thanks for that Bernice.

Martin explained to me that you had contacted John Simkin regarding Martin joining the forum.


It makes it hard when i am posting our "Co-Research" and my research partner Martin, can't even see what i am posting on the Forum.

Once again referencing the "Wide" white road stripe

It apears that Bond, Muchmore, and Willis were all located in the general location where the white road stripe meets the footpath.











Skaggs (4) Crop showing Rosemary Willis standing next to her father Phil Willis approx the same instant as he snaps the Willis (2) Photo seen above.


In both Skaggs (4) and Willis (2) Jackies head is turned to the right looking at kennedy.

Jackie is showing her husband "the little white dog".

Jack

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Jackie shows JFK the little white dog on Houston Street. (this image did not do well, I will look for another.

Jack

A better view of Jackie's little white dog she is showing to JFK.

Jack

I didn't reply Jack because it has NO relevance to the rest of the thread.

I thought it WAS relevant. The photo showed Jackie and JFK looking at
each other. Other photos at the same moment show Jackie holding the
"dog". I think that is relevant. Sorry.

Jack

No Problem Jack.




Assuming this is Bond (1) and Bond (2) where is Bond 3




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Robin Unger and Martin Hindricks Collaboration:







Arnold Rowland & Wife as depicted in Oliver Stone's film JFK



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The Rowlands from the CBS 1968 Special " The Warren Report "



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Bond 2

Showing Arnold Rowland and his wife.





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Nix camera position.



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Hughes camera position.



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One again a Robin Unger and Martin Hindricks Collaboration:




Mrs. PEARL SPRINGER, 8218 Elkton Circle, Dallas, Texas, telephone EX 1-1803, advised she is employed in the cutting room for Miller and Randazzo on the third floor of the Dal-Tex Mart Building, 501 Elm Street, Dallas Texas.

On November 22, 1963, she and another employee, Mrs. CAROLYN WALTHER, left the building where they work after they hurriedly ate lunch at about 12:15 p.m., to see the Presidential parade. They walked out of the building, crossed Elm Street and south on Houston Street on the east side of Houston Street, stopping just south of a sign post. (This sign post is seventeen steps south of the Elm Street Curb.) They stood there for about fifteen minutes waiting for the parade. During that time, she looked around at the crowed but never looked up above the ground floor of the Texas School Book Depository building located diagonally across the street from where she was standing.




Pearl Springer & Carolyn Walther standing next to each other near the sighn post, just as Don has it on his plat
so when we look for Carolyn Walther we need to look for two woman standing together next to the sighn post.
17-steps from the Elm st curb.




Carolym Walther.


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Next i will turn my attention to Hugh Betzner position (1) and (2) as confirmed by the Dorman Film.




Betzner 1














Betzner 2

I hope Don won't mind, i have taken the liberty of removing some of the wealth of information which was packed into this tiny section of his plat.

I was just going a little dislexic trying to separate the relevant parts of his plat from the unrelevant in regards to this thread.




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Smith, Joe Marshall



Mr. LIEBELER. How many officers were assigned at Elm and Houston?
Mr. SMITH. Three of us.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who were the other two men?
Mr. SMITH. W. E. Barnett, and E. L. Smith. I think that is his initials. I know it is another Smith boy anyway.
Mr. LIEBELER. How did you station yourself when you got there?
Mr. SMITH. Just after we got the epileptic seizure en route to the hospital, I hadn't gotten back to the corner but just a few minutes until the motorcade was coming, so I stationed myself on Elm Street in the middle from the southeast curb of Elm and Houston and held traffic up.
Mr. LIEBELER. Which direction would this traffic have been coming from that you held up?
Mr. SMITH. It was heading west on Elm.
Mr. LIEBELER. Coming down Elm toward the triple underpass? Coming into the intersection of Elm and Houston?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.

The third officer on the Elm & Houston corner.



TESTIMONY OF WELCOME EUGENE BARNETT


Mr. LIEBELER - Now, going back, you got to the area around 10 o'clock; is that right?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - Where did you go when you got there?
Mr. BARNETT - Well there were three of us assigned to that one corner.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who were the other officers?
Mr. BARNETT - Who were the other officers?
Mr. LIEBELER - Yes.
Mr. BARNETT - J.D. Smith, and another officer named Smith. I don't know his initials. E.L. I believe.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you divide your duties among yourselves when you got there, or had you been specifically instructed as to what each one was supposed to do?
Mr. BARNETT - We divided our duties.
Mr. LIEBELER - How did you do that?
Mr. BARNETT - Well, as best I remember, we each picked a corner and got on the corner. We were advised to stay on our corner, not to cross over to idly talk, but to stay on the corner and keep our eyes open and be ready.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you remain there at all times from 10 o'clock until the motorcade arrived?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes; well, of course, I was here until we got word to stop the traffic, and I stepped out of this position here. I had to stop traffic from Houston here and help the other officers stop it on Elm, and stop this traffic on this small street that goes in front of the Depository Building.
Mr. LIEBELER - When the motorcade actually came, you moved over pretty much into Houston Street?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - To stop the traffic that was coming?
Mr. BARNETT - South on Houston Street.
Mr. LIEBELER - South on Houston Street?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir; Elm Street is so wide, and I helped these officers here stop this traffic here.
Mr. LIEBELER - You are satisfied that you were further out into the intersection?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir; the car passed within a few feet of me, and I was holding some people, or seeing that they stayed back, and one small boy started. I was afraid he was going to get too close, and I stopped him.

your welcome so what's the latest has martin tried to contact him again would you know i only ask as john has not replied about this in this thread....what is the problem i wonder...b..

Sorry, I have not been following this thread. People who wish to join the Forum need to send me a biography and photograph. I will then register them. See the following for examples:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showforum=37

Send this information to: johnsimkin1945@hotmail.com

THANKS JOHN FOR THE REP[LY.......HOPEFULLY THIS MEMBERSHIP WILL NOW GO THROUGH......APPECIATED..B

Request for Robin.

I think Jackie's left arm is raised and she is showing JFK something.
Can you find a sharper version of this?

Jack

Hi Jack.

This is the best i have.


Robin.




Click to view attachment

Fantastic!

There's lambchop on Jackie's left hand, and JFK is looking and laughing!

Jack

JFK's last smile.

Thanks, Robin!

Jack

Jack,
I do not think you are right.

1. The object that has some resemblance to the face of a dog is outside the car. It appears to be something or someone that is next to whom I assume is a policeman. There is a hand to be seen, but that is also outside the car.

2. You say that JFK is smiling and laughing with Jackie. Actually it appears he is smiling and communicating with John Connally. John Connally is turned towards JFK and appears to be communicating with him. Either way, at this point, JFK is not looking directly at Jackie.

3. You are right in saying Jackie is holding something. I can't find anyway to see how that object resembles a dog. I believe it is the white flowers that she was given.

I am sympathetic to Jean Hill being proved right, but I do not see it in that image.

James

Muchmore.


chris

Chris,
Good image. That clears everything up.

I was wrong in my interpretation. It is clear that what we are seeing is Jackie pushing her her hair back.

Your image makes it clear that there is no dog here.

Thanks.


James

Chris,
Good image. That clears everything up.

I was wrong in my interpretation. It is clear that what we are seeing is Jackie pushing her her hair back.

Your image makes it clear that there is no dog here.

Thanks.


James

JAMES IN MUCHMORE BUT NOT IN BOND...

Hi Robin

Thanks for posting this thread over here.

As long as i read the Altgens photos 5 + 6 correctly, the positions of Police Officer Smith and Barnett should be somewhere here:



I believe we see in this Towner still photograph Police Officer Smith:



Close to the corner of the DalTex building from Towner's point of view.
I'am not entirely sure Smith's position in the Zapruder frame is actually there but on the other hand
i see a person there with a white hat. Mhhh. Did he move during the motorcade?

At last i want to thank Bernice Moore and Robin Unger for their kind support.
I'am not sure to deserve it.
And i want to thank John Simkin for letting me join.

Martin

In my opinion, two different policemen are shown. One is at the SE corner, the other at the NE corner.
Only one can be Officer Smith.

Jack

Jack,
I may have mis-interpreted what you said, in which case I am sorry. But there were actually two Dallas policemen called Smith in Dealey Plaza that day.

Joe Smith was up by by the TSBD. I believe he was in charge of controlling traffic from Elm Street into the Plaza.

There was also an E.L. Smith who was positioned nearer the Main Street corner. In the discussion on "Lambchop", it may be E.L. Smith we are seeing.


James

Hi James.

The full name of the other "Smith" is Edgar Leon Smith, Jr.

He describes the following:

Mr. SMITH. Okay - the dates and times will be just approximately, because I don't recall exactly, but, approximately 9 a.m., November 22, 1963, I attended a detail In the basement of the city hall for all men who were designated to work traffic for the President's visit to Dallas.
At that detail I was given instructions by Captain Lawrence, P. W. Lawrence, as to my duties and some things to watch out for. Some of these things I was to watch out for was to watch the crowd for any unusual movements and also to keep a check on the buildings in the vicinity of where I was located. He instructed us specifically about placards. I understand that people were allowed to carry placards, but if I should notice anyone attempting to throw them or any thing like that, I should take them into custody. I was assigned to the corner of Houston and Elm Street. I got to my traffic corner about --

Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you went down to the corner of Elm and Houston and took up your duty station there at about what time?
Mr. SMITH. I think it was about approximately 10 o'clock and - I believe that's about right.


Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you station yourself and what did you do from the time you arrived until the time the motorcade began to approach?
Mr. SMITH. I said approximately - oh, 30 to 40 feet south of the south curb of Elm Street at the east curb of Houston. I stood around there and talked with some of the people in this general vicinity and watched the crowd.
Mr. LIEBELER. You stood across the street on Houston Street from the Texas School Book Depository Building?
566

Mr. SMITH. Yes.

The way how interprete it, he was on duty at the corner of Elm and Houston street. He was there at 10 o'clock.
At the motorcade went by he stationed himself about 30-40 feet south of the south curb of Elm Street at the east curb of Houston.

At this point i see just one Police Officer. The man with the hand at his mouth. He maybe smoked a cigarette.



Martin

Martin, you must have missed my post on the other forum last week. I read somewhere that the guy who is smoking, who is seen in your image, is a security gaurd, and not a Policeman. I don't think that the Dallas Police wore light coloured trousers, someone correct me if I am wrong.

Duncan

quote:

At last i want to thank Bernice Moore and Robin Unger for their kind support.
I'am not sure to deserve it.
And i want to thank John Simkin for letting me join.



Hi Martin.

Good to see you posting on the Forum.


Robin.






For Jack.


The third officer on the Elm & Houston corner.



TESTIMONY OF WELCOME EUGENE BARNETT


Mr. LIEBELER - Now, going back, you got to the area around 10 o'clock; is that right?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - Where did you go when you got there?
Mr. BARNETT - Well there were three of us assigned to that one corner.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who were the other officers?
Mr. BARNETT - Who were the other officers?
Mr. LIEBELER - Yes.
Mr. BARNETT - J.D. Smith, and another officer named Smith. I don't know his initials. E.L. I believe.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you divide your duties among yourselves when you got there, or had you been specifically instructed as to what each one was supposed to do?
Mr. BARNETT - We divided our duties.
Mr. LIEBELER - How did you do that?
Mr. BARNETT - Well, as best I remember, we each picked a corner and got on the corner. We were advised to stay on our corner, not to cross over to idly talk, but to stay on the corner and keep our eyes open and be ready.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you remain there at all times from 10 o'clock until the motorcade arrived?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes; well, of course, I was here until we got word to stop the traffic, and I stepped out of this position here. I had to stop traffic from Houston here and help the other officers stop it on Elm, and stop this traffic on this small street that goes in front of the Depository Building.
Mr. LIEBELER - When the motorcade actually came, you moved over pretty much into Houston Street?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - To stop the traffic that was coming?
Mr. BARNETT - South on Houston Street.
Mr. LIEBELER - South on Houston Street?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir; Elm Street is so wide, and I helped these officers here stop this traffic here.
Mr. LIEBELER - You are satisfied that you were further out into the intersection?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes, sir; the car passed within a few feet of me, and I was holding some people, or seeing that they stayed back, and one small boy started. I was afraid he was going to get too close, and I stopped him.



I beleive Barnett to be the cop seen in Altgens 6
He is standing in front of the Dal-Tex , near the two boys just behind Johnson's follow up car.


Click to view attachment


That left JD Smith & EL Smith to work the south side of Elm.

Hi Duncan




No, i don't missed that.
The location of this Officer fits exactly the descreption of Edgar Leon Smith.
If you can give us more information about a possibler Security guard with such clothes,
i would be more than happy.

thanks


Martin

Gary Mack has informed me that I am correct that the man in Altgens is not a Dallas Police officer, and that he appears to be a Sheriff's Department deputy or a similar county officer.

Edited:

Looking more closely at this image.

This may in fact be Officer Barnett and not J.D. Smith



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Willis 3 Crop.


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And his name is not Edgar Leon Smith?

thanks.

Quote:


Robin,

The man labeled Officer Joe Smith is almost certainly Joe Marshall Smith. An easy way to tell is by the distinctive array of three pens in his pocket, which are clearly visible in a Dallas Times Herald photograph on page 515 of Pictures of the Pain.

Gary Mack.






Thanks Gary.


Robin.