The Pretty Pig's Saturday Night
(or what the LNT's won't tell you about their "SBT")
by
Pamela McElwain-Brown
I like pigs. Pigs are cute. Pigs are funny. Pigs are smart. Pigs have attitude. Pigs, however, have been given a bad rap. They are cleaner and more interesting than most people give them credit for If I had more room, I might even have a pet pig -- a rotund, hoofed creature with small eyes and a big nose -- a snout. When it made a mess I would acknowledge that it was a pig making the mess, not a dog or a goat. It would always be a pig. There's an old farm saying, perhaps originating from Minnesota where I happen to live -- that you can put as much lipstick as you want on a pig, but come Saturday night, it's still a pig.
With this orientation, let's take a look at the Holy Grail of the Lone Nut Theorists (LNTs), those who really believe (or pretend they do) that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in assassinating President Kennedy on November 22, 1963. In order to accommodate their thinking that Oswald (LHO) fired all the shots as well as to resolve the issue of there having been no bullet fragments found in either the neck wound of President Kennedy (JFK) or in the back or chest wounds of Governor Connally (JBC) they suggest that the 'magic' bullet found on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital about 2 hours after the assassination, (rather than being planted, as all indications show), created 7 wounds in JFK and JBC and emerged in nearly pristine condition. This bullet, FBI's exhibit Q1, was the first piece of ballistic evidence to reach the FBI Lab in DC on 11.22.63, having been flown in by SS Agent Richard Johnson on Air Force One, then transferred to SS Chief Rowley, and then SA Elmer Todd (none of whom marked it), and then given to SA Robert Frazier for examination and identification. Frazier quickly ID'd the bullet as having come from a foreign-made rifle. The Mannlicher-Carcano found in the Sixth Floor of the Texas School Book Depository was, of course, an Italian-made rifle.
When did the concept of a 'single-bullet' begin? Initially, perhaps, at the autopsy of President Kennedy, which took place during the evening of 11.22.63 at Bethesda Naval Hospital in Maryland. The purpose of the autopsy was twofold -- to determine the cause of death, and to retrieve bullets from the body. Unfortunately, this hasty pastiche of processes, directed by Dr. Humes, who had no experience with autopsies, might just as well be called the assassination's "Little Shop of Horrors", as its conclusions, re-written after LHO was murdered, have been questioned ever since. One question I am certain that the doctors must have asked, is simply "where are the bullets"? Only two small fragments were retrieved from JFK's skull, two others from the front of the Presidential Limousine, plus one tiny sliver from the arm of JBC. Only the 'magic bullet' could clearly be connected to the Mannlicher-Carcano (MC) supposedly owned by LHO.
When the Warren Commission (WC) began to meet they had no idea of the conflict that would soon present itself -- for the FBI Summary Report, completed in early December, stated simply that two shots had hit JFK and one had hit JBC.
So what is "the Single Bullet Theory" (SBT)? Is it really a valid theory? Or is it only a concept? Better yet, is it a concept which the LNT world has attempted to turn into an alleged fact? Is it, in short, just a pretty pig that the LNT's love to trot out every Saturday night to a gullible public to 'prove' their point that LHO acted alone?
"THE Single Bullet Theory" has been a part of America's vocabulary since the Warren Commission Report was first published in 1964. However, what if we were to separate the different scenarios of 'THE SBT' to see if they 'proved' the same thing in the same way from different points of view? In other words, is there really such a thing as "an SBT" or is the pretty pig only wearing a different hue of lipstick for each replay of an SB concept? A WC scenario? An HSCA scenario? A Posner scenario?
A Brief Historical Orientation of the Warren Commission (WC) SB scenario
Even the most ardent believer in the Warren Commission Report (WCR), no matter how young nor naïve, can fail to acknowledge that this report did not exist in a vacuum. The climate in 1963 was a significant factor in the tone of the report. The Cold War was at its height; the Cuban Missile Crisis having occurred only the year before. Now we know that CIA deliberately kept information from the Warren Commission regarding its attempts to eliminate Castro. And two Soviet defectors - Golitsyn and Nosenko - may have been a part of the invisible supports on which the WCR was developed.
CIA and the FBI were not communicating with each other either. They had been unable to pinpoint LHO as a possible threat on JFK's trip to Dallas - despite the fact that CIA had information LHO had met with KGB during his trip to Mexico City. And they were unable to protect LHO from being killed himself. Morale was at an all-time low - perhaps only recently equaled by the events of September 11, 2001.
In the midst of this maelstrom sat the Warren Commission members; armed with a directive to find out what had happened. They instead decided to focus on just how Lee Harvey Oswald could have assassinated JFK and wounded Gov. Connally without help. And into this mess stepped an enthusiastic WC lawyer - Arlen Specter; who just happened to make sure that he was at all the right places at all the right times. In addition, CIA had deliberately kept information from the Warren Commission regarding its attempts to eliminate Castro.
Critics of the WC SB scenario, and indeed of the entire report, complain that its focus began and ended with LHO. In terms of the WC SB scenario, this meant that the only location that would be examined and evaluated in the re-enactment that took place in May, 1964, was to be the 6th floor Sniper's Nest of the TSBD.
However, the premise that 'all the shots came from the rear' was never proven, was it? Instead, it was 'assumed'. Certainly we all know the definition of that word now!
The definition of circular reasoning (circulus in demonstrando) attempting to support a proposition with an argument that presupposes the proposition, or the truth of the conclusion is assumed by the premises.
This definition applies to the WC SB scenario in the following way -- only the 6th floor of the TSBD and the M-C belonging to LHO found there were worthy of consideration. Thus, the WC had, before setting out to 'prove' anything, already concluded that all the shots came from the rear. Starting from this axiom, then, all that follows must be considered within the orientation of 'circular reasoning'.
Each scenario of "THE SBT" now, contains the following consistency -- One bullet, CE 399, fired by LHO from the M-C from the 6th floor of the TSBD, caused JFK's back wound and neck wound, as well as all of JBC's wounds to back, chest, wrist and thigh.
WC "SB" Scenario -- True Scarlet
The Warren Commission, to their credit, decided to do an official re-enactment of the assassination in order to determine how LHO fired all the shots from the TSBD Sniper's Nest (SN). After weeks, if not months, of preparation, they gathered toward the end of May, 1964, blocked off Dealey Plaza early in the day, and filmed from the TSBD and from the pergola from which Zap ruder shot his film. It was, by their standards, accurate down to the last detail. However, there was just one small problem -- the limousine SS-100-X in which JFK had been shot was not available. It had been conveniently whisked out of DC soon after the assassination and was gutted down to the frame to be rebuilt. The Warren Commission apparently 'released' the car on December 20, 1963. What this seems to mean is that they were told (or believed) that the car was of no further use to the investigation and was in a timeline to be rebuilt as quickly as possible.
In any case, according to the WC members, they had been told (or believed) that all 7-passenger limousines were alike. And there just happened to be another one available -- the follow-up SS car in the Dallas motorcade -- Queen Mary II -- the 1956 Cadillac SS-679-X. This car had a higher profile than 100X and its jump seats were higher as well.
The objective of the WC was not to determine IF LHO could have fired all the shots but to demonstrate HOW he was able to do this. This is called reverse logic -- start with the conclusion and move backward. To that end, FBI ballistics expert Robert Frazier was placed in the TSBD SN with the rifle. Working with the Zapruder film, Frazier was asked to define the time span, or frames, during which the shots could have been fired. Frazier provided them with a range -- from Z220 on. LHO could not have fired earlier, the thinking was, since the live oak tree below was in the way.
Robert Frazier was the FBI ballistics expert who sat in the SN of the TSBD during the reenactment. He used very precise language and said that it was "entirely possible" that JFK and JBC were hit with one bullet between frames 207-225 (VH170). However the WC re-interpreting Frazier's statements in the WCR by saying "it was LIKELY" and "PROBABLE" that this had occurred (WCR, 105). The WCR gave no frame number, and did not specify that Frazier was referencing the concept of a range of frames.
In the WC's enthusiasm for truth they had two drawings created of the two limousines -- the Presidential Limousine SS-100-X and SS-679-X that was used in the reenactment. There are numerous measurements shown on them. However, there is one dimension missing -- the height. Of course, that is THE critical dimension for making a comparison between one car and the other.
In addition, there is no measurement shown for the clearance between the side door of 100X and the side of the jump seat. This is a critical measurement in terms of determining the positions of JFK and JBC. In addition, it should have been the catalyst for controversy in the later investigation done by the HSCA. Yet, as we will see, there was no controversy. Yes, we have a little mystery on our hands -- one that would probably not have occurred if SS-100-X had been available for the reenactment. CE 872 shows NO measurement for the clearance between the jump seat and the passenger door. (Figure 1)http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%201.bmp
During the WC testimony of SS Inspector Thomas Kelley, who was rushed to Dallas immediately following the assassination and coordinated everything there for the SS, including the reenactment, Arlen Specter and Kelley agreed that the clearance from the jump seat to the passenger door was 6 inches. (VH132) They also agreed the difference between the height of the two men was 1 1/2 inches.
In addition, the photographs of the reenactment such as show the entry wound in an unusually low position. Why? The limo they used for the reenactment -- 679X -- the SS follow-up car in the Dallas motorcade -- sat higher than 100X. 100X was not available -- conveniently -- because it had been spirited out of DC in ecember, with the permission of the WC, to be rebuilt as a bulletproof car.
Thus, the WC attempted to accommodate the differences between the cars by changing the position of the 'wounds'. All they really did was create a mess. In addition, they used incorrect measurements and thus their SB scenario could never be proven. How do we know this? Because the HSCA exhibit II-19 does show the measurement for the clearance between the jump seat and the passenger door -- it was not six inches, but 2 and 1/2 inches. Thus, the alignment of the two men in the WC reenactment was shown to be incorrect by the redrawing of the exact same diagram! In addition, the height differential used by the WC was a mere one and 1/2 inches. The HSCA later stated that this difference was 8 cm, or app. 3.5 inches. Quite a difference, don't you think?
Therefore, the possibility of a SB scenario that the WC worked so hard to create was based on faulty measurements. We can only agree that whatever conclusions the WC came to were incorrect, because they were based on incorrect data. The WC SB scenario, then, remains, at best, hypothetical. In fact, it is not a 'theory' at all, as it was never properly demonstrated, much less proven through repetition. It is a simply a concept -- a pretty pig wearing bright lipstick.
The HSCA SB Scenario -- Muddled Mauve
Over ten years later the HSCA would address the same issue of a SB scenario. Did they start from scratch? Did they do a reenactment? No. However, something they did do should have generated a considerable amount of questioning if not controversy. It requested another diagram of the limousine SS-100-X from Hess and Eisenhardt. And this one, exhibit II-19, contained a measurement conveniently missing from CE -- the distance from the passenger door to the passenger jump seat. And that distance was not 6 inches, as Kelley had told Specter -- it was 2 and one-half inches. The HSCA decided to start by 'accepting' the WC SB scenario. For that reason, nobody went back into the WC files to find the discrepancy. And so the HSCA, like a bunch of headless horsemen, 'forged' ahead, instead, re-validating an unproven conclusion.
The HSCA used photographs of the motorcade as their basis. All of their calculations were done based on distances from the Sniper's Nest of the TSBD. One member actually recommended that they do calculations from other buildings in Dealey Plaza as well, but he was promptly stifled:
The HSCA did attempt to make a correction for the height differential between JFK and JBC. They determined that the JFK was 8 cm higher than JBC. They also should have taken into account the fact that the new Hess and Eisenhardt drawing of the limo showed the clearance between the passenger door and passenger car seat to have been 2.5 inches (not 6 inches as the WC had believed). Nobody on the HSCA staff took the time to compare the two drawings, much less to extract the measurements used from the WC documents and note the discrepancy. In addition, there was a height differential made by the HSCA over the 1.5" differences between JFK and JBC in the WC reenactment. (Figure 2)
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%202.bmp
The HSCA also did a trajectory analysis of the shots. However, when it came to their SB scenario, they only concerned themselves with where the shot had hit JFK, and ignored the subsequent position of JBC. The shots were followed back to a cone of possibility -- that, of course, being the TSBD. When one member suggested that the cone be expanded to include other buildings they were promptly quieted. The HSCA also posited an 'early' SB scenario -- around Z190. This frame, however, was outside of the range approved by Robert Frazier for a possible SB scenario. The live oak tree was in the way and LHO would have been unable to see the limo and passengers clearly. Nobody mentioned this, of course, or discussed this in any way. Instead they blithely accepted that the WC had 'proven' their SB scenario and modified it to suit their presupposed whims.
A term that came into use as a result of the HSCA SB scenario is that JBC was 'well inboard' of JFK. Anyone who examines many of the motorcade photos realizes that a different perspective is shown on many of them regarding the relationship of the positions of JFK and JBC. The HSCA was comfortable with the logic of 'if it looks that way, it must be so'. And apparently nobody questioned it.
Thus, the two governmental inquiries came up with two completely different SB scenarios. The WC did a reenactment, but used incorrect data, and thus, their theory could never be proven. The HSCA used more accurate data, but did no reenactment. It just began with the axiom that the WC had proven its scenario. The HSCA never bothered to compare the data they had with the WC data, and thus they never found that the WC had used erroneous data. In addition, the HSCA focused on Z190, which Frazier during the WC reenactment had already stated was outside of the range of possibility. So did the HSCA actually come to any conclusions? Or did it just add another layer of color to the lipstick on the pretty pig?
Posner Pink
What the elite of the LNT world knew, but didn't share with anyone, was that in addition to the fact that the WC SB scenario was never even proven, it was only given as a range of possibility, from Z207-220. This open-ended factor must surely have irked the LNT community, for after the success of the movie JFK they decided to come out full throttle with the answer not only to JFK but also to all the CT questions. CASE CLOSED was designed to finally put the cap on all suspicions of someone other than LHO being involved in the assassination. With unheard of fanfare Posner's contribution was foisted onto the public via media and print. At the heart of CASE CLOSED (CC) was a new SB scenario -- this one relying on technology to finish the job the WC started. Armed with computer enhanced Z frames and an exhaustive 3-d animation by Failure Analysis Associates (FAA) it was possible to pinpoint at last exactly how 'the SBT' had occurred. In the process, it claimed to pinpoint exactly when the shot had occurred -- Z223. This was noted because, with all the enhancement gadgets and outstanding engineering -- Posner had come across something new -- a lapel 'flip' on JBC's right lapel that could 'only' have come from the bullet exiting his chest! LNTs everywhere have had a hard time containing their giddiness at this 'find'. It is because of this assertion, more than anything else in the book, that Posner was comfortable with the title. He really believed that by at last pinpointing 'the SBT' there was simply nothing more to say.
But was this even so? With all the technology that Posner by his own assertions had at his disposal one would think that he might have examined and excluded every other possibility. Would someone trying to put an end to over 30 years of questions simply choose to jump to a sinister conclusion without having thoroughly vetted his idea? Instead of examining reasonable alternatives, such as the multitude of shadows falling on all those in the limousine during the motorcade, and especially in the Zapruder film, where Zapruder is shooting into the sun, with colossal arrogance, Posner used the 'lapel flip' as the crowning glory of his book. Iit wasn't even true. The 'lapel flip' or 'flop' as I prefer to call it, comes from a shadow refracted from the small side window on the Presidential limousine onto JBC's chest. There are, in fact, many shadows on those in the limo, from the many reflective surfaces on and in the car, including the side windows and the windshield, as well as the chrome molding of the center partition. There is also a shadow on JBC's left chest. JBC is rotating forward during these frames. In addition, the limo is turning left, into the sun, following the curve of Elm Street. And, as you can clearly see in the full-framed version of the Z-film, this shadow bears the same shape as the perimeter of the Stemmons Freeway sign which was between Zapruder and the limousine. Notice the orientation of the sign and the shadow in the following gif.(Figure 3)
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%203.gif
Forget the fact that the 'lapel flip' was nowhere near the bullet hole in JBC's jacket, forget the fact that there was no 'bulge' in any prior or subsequent frames showing debris coming through the jacket, forget the fact that there are countless shadows and even artifacts visible from the reflective surfaces on the limo in the photos and footage taken that way -- an objective look at the Z-frames shows something entirely different from what Posner would have us believe. Posner has led the LNT community into nothing less than a dead-end with his spurious idea of a 'lapel flip'.
A Post-Posner Pastiche -- the McAdams "SBT" page
At John McAdams endless and highly-visible website on the JFK Assassination, newbies get to treat themselves to page after page of LNT propaganda under the thinnest possible veil of scholarship. If you want to know all the dirt about Mark Lane or Jim Garrison -- all you need to do is read with naiveté the McAdams tracts. However, if you decide to read objectively and analyze what he is saying you will begin to perceive what is really being presented, which is more like a monstrous mishmash of irresponsible statements. With the orientation and tools given in this article, let's take a look at McAdams version of "The Single Bullet Theory", which you can find at
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sbt.htm
McAdams jumps right in with a list of photos showing the relative positions of JBC and JFK in the limo. This is, of course, the HSCA orientation. He repeats the use of the statement that Connally is "well inboard" of JFK. Again, this is the HSCA terminology. He then focuses on the Canning trajectory study for the HSCA; fair enough, still in the same orientation. But then he blithely segues in the most interesting way, saying:
"Canning used the HSCA scenario that had Kennedy and Connally being stuck by the Single Bullet at frame 190. More recent work has pinpointed the time of the hit to Zapruder frame 223".
Look at that statement -- the gall of it. It’s just a bait-and-switch statement! Which naive Kennedy assassination newbie would have the sense to question what difference a few frames could make? What McAdams has blithely done was to take the unproved HSCA SB scenario and plop on top of it the "newer" Posner unproved scenario. A veritable blending of lipstick shades, if you will.
In fact, McAdams then gives the reader more choices -- you can view the FAA (Exponent) page, or even Dale Myers' animation while completely disregarding the fact that the SB concept itself is still unproven and that there are different alignments between JFK and JBC at different frames in the Zapruder film!
Later on in the six-page tract McAdams blithely repeats his hodge-podge of misrepresentations:
"Supposedly, Connally is obviously unhurt in Zapruder frame 230, but John Kennedy is obviously reacting to being hit at this point. Thus, it is claimed, the same bullet could not have hit both men. But a careful study of the Zapruder film shows that Connally was hit at frame 223."
So this is the current concept of "The SBT" -- take what you need from any SB scenario and use it to try to make your point. It makes no difference that the SB theory was never proven. It makes no difference if the particular Z-frame changes, even if it is beyond the range of the original WC SB scenario. It makes no difference that there is no such thing as a 'lapel flip' at Z223-4. All that matters to the LNTs is that there 'is' 'an SBT'. They 'believe' in 'the SBT'. They do this as a matter of blind faith, as is evidenced by the fact that they continue to spew forth ridiculous garbage only to deceive the naive.
However, for any of those wishing to remain both intelligent and objective, we must simply ask them what they mean by 'the SBT' and remind them that, come Saturday night, even a pretty pig with lots of lipstick on is still just a pig.
Copyright 2004 In Broad Daylight Research
With thanks to my friends, fellow researchers, and editors Brad Back, and my husband Donner.
Full Version: The Pretty Pig's Saturday Night
Adding attachments:
Figure 1
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%201.bmp
Figure 2
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%202.bmp
Figure 3
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%203.gif
Figure 1
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%201.bmp
Figure 2
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%202.bmp
Figure 3
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%203.gif
Seems that in this forum I may be preaching to the choir about 'the SBT'. I notice that both my article and Jim Fetzer's valuable article on this subject have not been subjected to any controversy.
However, on alt.assassination.jfk, where the LNTs think they rule supreme, it is a different story. I posted a link there to my article and one poster decried my daring to call 'the SBT' a 'pretty pig' without even having bothered to READ my article. Then he went on to make a number of illogical statements based on an incorrect orientation and demand that I reply to them. When I did reply the post was then 'moderated' into the aaj black hole and has not appeared.
Another poster, who happens to be a mod (censor) there did read the article but then scolded me for having typos and 'minor errors' without specifying what they consisted of. In addition, he had supposedly tried to chastise me in email but they came back. I gave him a new email address yesterday, but still not a word. Oh, and NARY a word about the substance of the article.
So, the point I'm making is that the LNTs may be comfortable regurgitating their ideas of 'the SBT' on their slanted field, they appear to be rather inept at carrying on a discussion of any substance.
Pamela
However, on alt.assassination.jfk, where the LNTs think they rule supreme, it is a different story. I posted a link there to my article and one poster decried my daring to call 'the SBT' a 'pretty pig' without even having bothered to READ my article. Then he went on to make a number of illogical statements based on an incorrect orientation and demand that I reply to them. When I did reply the post was then 'moderated' into the aaj black hole and has not appeared.
Another poster, who happens to be a mod (censor) there did read the article but then scolded me for having typos and 'minor errors' without specifying what they consisted of. In addition, he had supposedly tried to chastise me in email but they came back. I gave him a new email address yesterday, but still not a word. Oh, and NARY a word about the substance of the article.
So, the point I'm making is that the LNTs may be comfortable regurgitating their ideas of 'the SBT' on their slanted field, they appear to be rather inept at carrying on a discussion of any substance.
Pamela
pamela
i can safely say that just because your article has not received any replies does not make it any less potent than the other articles. I always like to see posners evidence being turned on its face. I enjoyed the analogy too!
I think that people just take it for granted that the SBT is false evidence.I myself have somewhat neglected the physical evidence and gone after the trail of possible conspirators more , this article was very good in showing me once again why there is and should not be any faith in the SBT
many thanks
john geraghty
i can safely say that just because your article has not received any replies does not make it any less potent than the other articles. I always like to see posners evidence being turned on its face. I enjoyed the analogy too!
I think that people just take it for granted that the SBT is false evidence.I myself have somewhat neglected the physical evidence and gone after the trail of possible conspirators more , this article was very good in showing me once again why there is and should not be any faith in the SBT
many thanks
john geraghty
If there was no SBT, where did the bullets go???
Asking where the bullets went is touching on valuable question to the JFK assassination that, unfortunately, the Warren Commission managed to obfuscate by putting forth their "SBT". This question is, however, tangential to the question of whether or not any of the SB scenarios were ever proven (they weren't). In addition, it is necessary to separate CE 399 from consideration of an SB scenario, for the simple reason that it may well have been planted.
If there were no bullets found in the body of JFK during autopsy or JBC during surgery, or in the limo, where did they go?
Whether or not you agree with Lifton, it was into the void this question left that he dared to venture. An alternate account is defined in Ritchie Linton's as-yet-unpublished and well worth reading manuscript "The Palace Guard".
Do we have the courage to enter the void on our own and form our own conclusions?
Pamela
Asking where the bullets went is touching on valuable question to the JFK assassination that, unfortunately, the Warren Commission managed to obfuscate by putting forth their "SBT". This question is, however, tangential to the question of whether or not any of the SB scenarios were ever proven (they weren't). In addition, it is necessary to separate CE 399 from consideration of an SB scenario, for the simple reason that it may well have been planted.
If there were no bullets found in the body of JFK during autopsy or JBC during surgery, or in the limo, where did they go?
Whether or not you agree with Lifton, it was into the void this question left that he dared to venture. An alternate account is defined in Ritchie Linton's as-yet-unpublished and well worth reading manuscript "The Palace Guard".
Do we have the courage to enter the void on our own and form our own conclusions?
Pamela
pamela
i can safely say that just because your article has not received any replies does not make it any less potent than the other articles. I always like to see posners evidence being turned on its face. I enjoyed the analogy too!
I think that people just take it for granted that the SBT is false evidence.I myself have somewhat neglected the physical evidence and gone after the trail of possible conspirators more , this article was very good in showing me once again why there is and should not be any faith in the SBT
many thanks
john geraghty
Thank you John. I hope that all of us who are CTs can step up to the plate and once and for all quash the misorientations of the LNTs regarding their 'SBT'. It would be great if everyone could find what rings true to them in my essay and that of Jim Fetzer's and just run with it. I can think of no greater compliment.
Pamela
i can safely say that just because your article has not received any replies does not make it any less potent than the other articles. I always like to see posners evidence being turned on its face. I enjoyed the analogy too!
I think that people just take it for granted that the SBT is false evidence.I myself have somewhat neglected the physical evidence and gone after the trail of possible conspirators more , this article was very good in showing me once again why there is and should not be any faith in the SBT
many thanks
john geraghty
Thank you John. I hope that all of us who are CTs can step up to the plate and once and for all quash the misorientations of the LNTs regarding their 'SBT'. It would be great if everyone could find what rings true to them in my essay and that of Jim Fetzer's and just run with it. I can think of no greater compliment.
Pamela
Ironically, a very interesting discussion has been started on the arch LNT group alt.assassination.jfk on my essay, by one of the mods there, Chad Zimmerman. I have invited him and those involved in the thread to also post here, as it is valuable to see Chad's position and logic. My issue with his statements currently is that he has misrepresented what I said in "The Pretty Pig's Saturday Night" about the lapel 'flop' really being a shadow; the Stemmons Freeway sign being the most logical spot.
Here is the Google link to the thread for anyone interested in following the discussion on aaj.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.as...bea20f0a53fbfac
I used a gif of Z-frames as an illustration of my point:
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%203.gif
The parts of the equation that I am presenting are this:
1 -- Zapruder's orientation and
2 -- The small side window in the limo
contributed to the fact that the shadow,
3 -- Carrying the same perimeter shape as the top right corner of the
Stemmons Freeway sign
create the 'flop'.
In addition, if you look at the later frames Z225-6, you can see the same shadow (blocked to some extent by the fact that his arms are up) on JFK!
Chad has removed the limo window and Zapruder orientation from my equation and presented his own, which is that because the SFS shadow did not extend into the street in other photos from other orientations, that the lapel 'flop' is really a 'flip'. :-0
Of course, that is a Strawman Argument.
Pamela
Here is the Google link to the thread for anyone interested in following the discussion on aaj.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.as...bea20f0a53fbfac
I used a gif of Z-frames as an illustration of my point:
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%203.gif
The parts of the equation that I am presenting are this:
1 -- Zapruder's orientation and
2 -- The small side window in the limo
contributed to the fact that the shadow,
3 -- Carrying the same perimeter shape as the top right corner of the
Stemmons Freeway sign
create the 'flop'.
In addition, if you look at the later frames Z225-6, you can see the same shadow (blocked to some extent by the fact that his arms are up) on JFK!
Chad has removed the limo window and Zapruder orientation from my equation and presented his own, which is that because the SFS shadow did not extend into the street in other photos from other orientations, that the lapel 'flop' is really a 'flip'. :-0
Of course, that is a Strawman Argument.
Pamela
The aaj crew has still been unable to understand my position on the Posner lapel 'flop' which I had for years considered to be a shadow, perhaps coming from the metal bar in front of JBC. I have discussed this on Usenet more than once. Recently, however, after analyzing the full-frame Zapruder, I found a synchronicity between the shape of the Stemmons Freeway Sign and the shadow on JBC's chest. Was this merely a coincidence, I wondered, or could the angle of incidence from the limo side window to the SFS and the angle of refraction from the limo side window to the shadow be an example of Fermat's principle?
"Hence, Fermat's principle yields that the angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection, a well known result of geometrical optics. "
The limo is starting to turn into the sun.
The sun is just past high noon on the 33rd parallel.
There are numerous reflective surfaces on the limo, of glass and metal, including the side windows, the windshield, the mirrors, and the chrome frame.
I used a gif of Z-frames as an illustration of my point:
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%203.gif
The parts of the equation that I am presenting are this:
1 -- Zapruder's orientation and
2 -- The small side window in the limo
contributed to the fact that the shadow,
3 -- Carrying the same perimeter shape as the top right corner of the
Stemmons Freeway sign
create the 'flop'.
In addition, if you look at the later frames Z225-6, you can see the same shadow (blocked to some extent by the fact that his arms are up) on JFK!
So, for anyone mystified by my statements to this effect in "The Pretty Pig's Saturday Night", hopefully this additional information will be helpful.
Another factor in analyzing this equation is the fact that the quality of the Zapruder film is so poor that it does not show much detail.
Pamela
"Hence, Fermat's principle yields that the angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection, a well known result of geometrical optics. "
The limo is starting to turn into the sun.
The sun is just past high noon on the 33rd parallel.
There are numerous reflective surfaces on the limo, of glass and metal, including the side windows, the windshield, the mirrors, and the chrome frame.
I used a gif of Z-frames as an illustration of my point:
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/figure%203.gif
The parts of the equation that I am presenting are this:
1 -- Zapruder's orientation and
2 -- The small side window in the limo
contributed to the fact that the shadow,
3 -- Carrying the same perimeter shape as the top right corner of the
Stemmons Freeway sign
create the 'flop'.
In addition, if you look at the later frames Z225-6, you can see the same shadow (blocked to some extent by the fact that his arms are up) on JFK!
So, for anyone mystified by my statements to this effect in "The Pretty Pig's Saturday Night", hopefully this additional information will be helpful.
Another factor in analyzing this equation is the fact that the quality of the Zapruder film is so poor that it does not show much detail.
Pamela
Here is another example of an artifact of some sort created by the reflective surfaces on the limousine during the assassination. The Altgens 1-6 photo shows a small reflection of Gov. Connally in the windshield. This reflection is shown inside the rectangle. Please ignore the right side of the gif; haven't figured out how to trim it yet.
Pamela
Pamela
QUOTE (Pamela McElwain-Brown @ Dec 15 2004, 07:35 AM)
Here is another example of an artifact of some sort created by the reflective surfaces on the limousine during the assassination. The Altgens 1-6 photo shows a small reflection of Gov. Connally in the windshield. This reflection is shown inside the rectangle. Please ignore the right side of the gif; haven't figured out how to trim it yet.
Pamela
Pamela
Maybe a better print will help. You have outlined JFK's lower jaw - mouth - and index finger.
Bill
Bill said:
Maybe a better print will help. You have outlined JFK's lower jaw - mouth - and index finger.
Bill,
I have many copies of the photo and I disagree. I used this one because it was already at www.jfk100x.com.
In fact, what you may think you are seeing of JFK's upper face is actually reflection shown on the back of the rear-view mirror.
Perhaps we are in agreement that there are issues left unresolved about the Altgens 1-6. It is at the equivalent of Z255-- so over 20 frames past the lapel 'flop' shadow.
Pamela
Maybe a better print will help. You have outlined JFK's lower jaw - mouth - and index finger.
Bill,
I have many copies of the photo and I disagree. I used this one because it was already at www.jfk100x.com.
In fact, what you may think you are seeing of JFK's upper face is actually reflection shown on the back of the rear-view mirror.
Perhaps we are in agreement that there are issues left unresolved about the Altgens 1-6. It is at the equivalent of Z255-- so over 20 frames past the lapel 'flop' shadow.
Pamela
QUOTE
Bill,
I have many copies of the photo and I disagree. I used this one because it was already at www.jfk100x.com.
In fact, what you may think you are seeing of JFK's upper face is actually reflection shown on the back of the rear-view mirror.
I have many copies of the photo and I disagree. I used this one because it was already at www.jfk100x.com.
In fact, what you may think you are seeing of JFK's upper face is actually reflection shown on the back of the rear-view mirror.
[B]I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
The back of the rear view mirror is hard plastic. It has some sun spots on it as the sun is shining off of it through the windshield. Zapruder frame 255 shows JFK's face in direct sunlight. I am at a lost as to where you are getting this mirror reflection stuff, especially when the sun is in front of the car and can only shine directly onto the back of the mirror and not the reflective side.
Pamela
Do you know if there has ever been any movement in the attempt to retrieve the bullet fragment from Connelly's wrist and thigh?
06/18/1993 Connally Takes Bullet Pieces to Grave
By George Lardner Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Former Texas governor John B. Connally was buried in an east Austin cemetery
yesterday after a frantic and unsuccessful effort to get family permission to
extract bullet fragments left in his body almost 30 years ago.
FBI officials in Dallas had recommended that an attempt be made to recover
the evidence and settle a long-standing controversy about whether Connally was
hit by the same bullet that wounded President John F. Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963,
just before Kennedy was killed by another bullet that tore into his skull.
Dallas FBI agent Oliver B. Revell said he feared that a barrage of lawsuits
would be discomfiting to the Connally family in the years ahead unless the
fragments were recovered. "We hate to intrude into the family's grief," Revell
said a few hours before the final graveside ceremonies, "but it's going to
happen sooner or later. I'm afraid the family is going to be harassed on this
until it's resolved."
The "single bullet" or "magic bullet" theory was crucial to the Warren
Commission's findings that Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, killed the
president and wounded Connally as the two men rode together in a motorcade
through downtown Dallas.
Connally's family and friends were upset and angry about the last-minute
hubbub over the bullet fragments, which began Wednesday with requests from
Kennedy assassination researchers urging the Justice Department to step in. A
spokesman at Justice said officials attempted to contact the family yesterday
morning after receiving the FBI recommendation but were unsuccessful.
"It's really offensive," said George Christian, a longtime Connally friend
and once his press secretary. "Nobody in the Connally family that I know of
ever heard of these fragments."
Revell said there was a fragment in one of Connally's thighs and perhaps
some traces in a wrist. The nonprofit Assassination Archives and Research
Center urged Attorney General Janet Reno on Wednesday to secure the fragments
and compare them, using neutron activation analysis and other sophisticated
tests, with the nearly intact bullet the Warren Commission said the pieces came
from. The bullet was found on a hospital stretcher and was believed to have
dropped out of Connally's thigh.
"If the family would agree and we can examine those under current
technology," Revell said, "we could do one of two things. We could say, 'Yes,
indeed, this was the bullet (that hit both men) and there is no basis for
saying there were additional shots. But if the mass and metallurgy don't match,
we've got a different ballgame."
Some bullet fragments were extracted from Connally's wrist at Parkland
Hospital in 1963. Tests in 1977 for the House assassinations committee matched
several bits with the "pristine bullet," but questions about the authenticity
of the pieces arose because they did not have the same weight as fragments
tested years earlier - and inconclusively - by the FBI. The FBI's fragments
disappeared.
Connally's body lay in state in the state capitol for two hours yesterday
morning and then was carried across the street to First United Methodist
Church, where he and his wife, Nellie, were married 52 years ago.
Among those at the funeral service were former president Richard M. Nixon,
Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen, and Texas Gov. Ann Richards. Lady Bird Johnson
delivered a eulogy, remembering that "John was always the `can do' man, as
Lyndon would say." Twenty years ago, Connally delivered a eulogy for her
husband, former president Lyndon B. Johnson. Special correspondent Elizabeth
Hudson in Austin contributed to this report.
What is your take on neutron activation analysis to test the various bullets and fragments in this case?
Where do you think the Connelly thigh wounding bullet was fired from?
Thank you for your great paper!
Jim Root
Do you know if there has ever been any movement in the attempt to retrieve the bullet fragment from Connelly's wrist and thigh?
06/18/1993 Connally Takes Bullet Pieces to Grave
By George Lardner Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Former Texas governor John B. Connally was buried in an east Austin cemetery
yesterday after a frantic and unsuccessful effort to get family permission to
extract bullet fragments left in his body almost 30 years ago.
FBI officials in Dallas had recommended that an attempt be made to recover
the evidence and settle a long-standing controversy about whether Connally was
hit by the same bullet that wounded President John F. Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963,
just before Kennedy was killed by another bullet that tore into his skull.
Dallas FBI agent Oliver B. Revell said he feared that a barrage of lawsuits
would be discomfiting to the Connally family in the years ahead unless the
fragments were recovered. "We hate to intrude into the family's grief," Revell
said a few hours before the final graveside ceremonies, "but it's going to
happen sooner or later. I'm afraid the family is going to be harassed on this
until it's resolved."
The "single bullet" or "magic bullet" theory was crucial to the Warren
Commission's findings that Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, killed the
president and wounded Connally as the two men rode together in a motorcade
through downtown Dallas.
Connally's family and friends were upset and angry about the last-minute
hubbub over the bullet fragments, which began Wednesday with requests from
Kennedy assassination researchers urging the Justice Department to step in. A
spokesman at Justice said officials attempted to contact the family yesterday
morning after receiving the FBI recommendation but were unsuccessful.
"It's really offensive," said George Christian, a longtime Connally friend
and once his press secretary. "Nobody in the Connally family that I know of
ever heard of these fragments."
Revell said there was a fragment in one of Connally's thighs and perhaps
some traces in a wrist. The nonprofit Assassination Archives and Research
Center urged Attorney General Janet Reno on Wednesday to secure the fragments
and compare them, using neutron activation analysis and other sophisticated
tests, with the nearly intact bullet the Warren Commission said the pieces came
from. The bullet was found on a hospital stretcher and was believed to have
dropped out of Connally's thigh.
"If the family would agree and we can examine those under current
technology," Revell said, "we could do one of two things. We could say, 'Yes,
indeed, this was the bullet (that hit both men) and there is no basis for
saying there were additional shots. But if the mass and metallurgy don't match,
we've got a different ballgame."
Some bullet fragments were extracted from Connally's wrist at Parkland
Hospital in 1963. Tests in 1977 for the House assassinations committee matched
several bits with the "pristine bullet," but questions about the authenticity
of the pieces arose because they did not have the same weight as fragments
tested years earlier - and inconclusively - by the FBI. The FBI's fragments
disappeared.
Connally's body lay in state in the state capitol for two hours yesterday
morning and then was carried across the street to First United Methodist
Church, where he and his wife, Nellie, were married 52 years ago.
Among those at the funeral service were former president Richard M. Nixon,
Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen, and Texas Gov. Ann Richards. Lady Bird Johnson
delivered a eulogy, remembering that "John was always the `can do' man, as
Lyndon would say." Twenty years ago, Connally delivered a eulogy for her
husband, former president Lyndon B. Johnson. Special correspondent Elizabeth
Hudson in Austin contributed to this report.
What is your take on neutron activation analysis to test the various bullets and fragments in this case?
Where do you think the Connelly thigh wounding bullet was fired from?
Thank you for your great paper!
Jim Root
Bill said:
[B]I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
Pamela
[B]I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
Pamela
Bill said:
[B]I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
Pamela
[B]I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
Pamela
Bill said:
I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
Pamela
I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
Pamela
Bill said:
I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
Pamela
I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
Pamela
Bill said:
I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
Pamela
I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
Pamela
Bill said:
I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
I seem to be having trouble uploading the z255 attachment. I'll try doing it in a separate post.
Pamela
I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
I seem to be having trouble uploading the z255 attachment. I'll try doing it in a separate post.
Pamela
QUOTE (Pamela McElwain-Brown @ Dec 16 2004, 08:00 PM)
Bill said:
I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
Pamela
I can only suggest that you use the best images possible so to try and limit in photographical interpretation errors. Chosing anything less is asking for false conclusions to be reached.
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
Pamela
QUOTE
With all due respect, I believe you are mistaken about the JBC reflection in the windshield of the Altgens 1-6. Look at the position of JFK's hands at Z 255 and you will see that the area of the tiny reflection could not be JFK's hands, as they were clenched and apart.
I seem to be having trouble uploading the z255 attachment. I'll try doing it in a separate post.
I seem to be having trouble uploading the z255 attachment. I'll try doing it in a separate post.
Photo experts for the last 40 years have not said anything like what you are talking about. The sun is in front of the car in the SW - except for the back of the rear view mirror we are seeing JFK's face and left hand in Altgens 6 with JFK's index finger pointed towards his throat wound. I repectably challenge you to name one photo expert who says that we are seeing a reflection of some sort.
This is a jpg of Z255. I apologize for the size and quality. I haven't figured out how to capture from the IOA DVD yet. In the DVD version it is possible to see that both of JFK's fists are cleanched and they are not together. Therefore, the small reflected image of JBC cannot be JFK's right fist.
Pamela
Pamela
QUOTE (Pamela McElwain-Brown @ Dec 17 2004, 07:54 AM)
This is a jpg of Z255. I apologize for the size and quality. I haven't figured out how to capture from the IOA DVD yet. In the DVD version it is possible to see that both of JFK's fists are cleanched and they are not together. Therefore, the small reflected image of JBC cannot be JFK's right fist.
Pamela
Pamela
Pam - I am a bit confused. You first marked out a place on the Altgens photo under the mirror and it wasn't even touching Connally. That's when I told you it was JFK's left hand and forefinger. Now you are talking about JFK's right hand which no one has ever said that it could be seen in Altgens photograph. So how did JFK's right hand get into this discussion?
I have taken the liberty to place your original Newspaper Altgens 6 photo with the box you placed on it and put it over the better quality Altgens 6 print and have allowed the two to fade in and out. I think if you were to closely at a really good print that you would see JFK's lips and lower right hand chin in the boxed area. Just to our left of JFK's forefinger is a small demple on JFK's face. I hope the images help. (See the animation on the right)
Bill
Pamela
Let me start out by saying I do not believe that Oswald was a “nut.” I also believe there was a conspiracy. With that said I would like to ask some questions of your article and make a few observations.
A) “In order to accommodate their thinking that Oswald (LHO) fired all the shots as well as to resolve the issue of there having been no bullet fragments found in either the neck wound of President Kennedy (JFK) or in the back or chest wounds of Governor Connally (JBC) they suggest that the 'magic' bullet found on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital about 2 hours after the assassination, (rather than being planted, as all indications show), created 7 wounds in JFK and JBC and emerged in nearly pristine condition.”
“One question I am certain that the doctors must have asked, is simply "where are the bullets"? Only two small fragments were retrieved from JFK's skull, two others from the front of the Presidential Limousine, plus one tiny sliver from the arm of JBC. Only the 'magic bullet' could clearly be connected to the Mannlicher-Carcano (MC) supposedly owned by LHO.”
Whoever “planted, as all indications show” the “magic bullet” must have been very happy to find that there were no bullet fragments discovered “in either the neck wound of President Kennedy (JFK) or in the back or chest wounds of Governor Connally (JBC)…” This would suggest that the doctors/nurses etc. that initially worked on Connally were part of the conspiracy. A bullet that would be found in “nearly pristine condition” could only be a part of the cover-up if no bullet fragments were to be found. Since the bullet was discovered before the surgery on Connally was completed, all in attendance in the operating room could be considered suspects in disposing of any unwanted fragments or the “pristine bullet” would never fly as evidence. Conversely if fragments were found the “pristine bullet” could not have been pristine. Do you think fragments were discarded to protect the concept of a “pristine bullet” or that there were no fragments and whoever “planted, as all indications show” the bullet was, some how, sure none would be found?
Where did the bullet go that created the “..about an inch, an inch and a quarter long is all…” (Testimony of John Connally) hole in Connally’s left thigh?
Once again we have to go to those in the operating room or to the person who “planted, as all indications show” the “magic bullet” to have also removed the left thigh bullet and, as seems logical, to have discarded it. Connally, who was conscious enough to attempt to get out of the limousine at Parkland Hospital does not ever recall someone removing a bullet from his left thigh on the way into surgery. He admittedly was fading in and out of consciousness but how difficult would the removal of a bullet be while he is being wheeled into surgery with his wife at his side? Once again the staff in the operating room are the most likely culprits or the bullet was easily removed by the same person that “planted, as all indications show” it. Logic would seem to indicate that if the “pristine” bullet planter could easily remove the bullet, without being noticed, while Connally is being wheeled into surgery it would be just as easy for that bullet to just fall out on the stretcher and that obviously did not happen because it was “planted, as all indications show.” Do you think the left thigh bullet was easy to remove on the way into the operating room or that it would have required surgery to be removed?
So, it would seem possible, we have two distinct groups of conspirators at Parkland Hospital. The bullet planter and the operating room staff that extracted the left thigh bullet and discarded it along with any unwanted bullet fragments. By default they would have to be conspirators because they were acting in concert although independently of each other.
Would you agree that those in the Connally operating room could be considered conspirators in this sense?
C) “Each scenario of "THE SBT" now, contains the following consistency -- One bullet, CE 399, fired by LHO from the M-C from the 6th floor of the TSBD, caused JFK's back wound and neck wound, as well as all of JBC's wounds to back, chest, wrist and thigh.” “…The HSCA also did a trajectory analysis of the shots. However, when it came to their SB scenario, they only concerned themselves with where the shot had hit JFK, and ignored the subsequent position of JBC.”
Taking into account the position of John Connally, in your opinion, from where was the bullet that caused Connally’s left thigh wound fired? Left, right, front or rear? From the right you would have a trajectory analysis that would be very steep because of the side of the limousine and would be inconsistent with the actual wound. From the left you would have Nellie to contend with plus the wound. From the front you have the dashboard and the angle of the wound. From the rear the bullet would have to have traveled through Connally first but that would suggest a single bullet that was “spent” by the time it hit the left thigh. From where did this “magic bullet” come from?
D) “In the WC's enthusiasm for truth they had two drawings created of the two limousines -- the Presidential Limousine SS-100-X and SS-679-X that was used in the reenactment. There are numerous measurements shown on them. However, there is one dimension missing -- the height. Of course, that is THE critical dimension for making a comparison between one car and the other.” “…Arlen Specter and Kelley agreed that the clearance from the jump seat to the passenger door was 6 inches. (VH132) They also agreed the difference between the height of the two men was 1 1/2 inches.” “…In addition, the height differential used by the WC was a mere one and 1/2 inches. The HSCA later stated that this difference was 8 cm, or app. 3.5 inches. Quite a difference, don't you think?”
The “difference between the height of the two men” is referenced clearly in John Connally’s testimony before the Warren Commission:
Mr. SPECTER. What was the relative height of the Jump seats, Governor, with respect to the seat of the President and Mrs. Kennedy immediately to your rear?
Governor CONNALLY. They were somewhat lower. The back seat of that particular Lincoln limousine, which is a specially designed and built automobile, as you know, for the President of the United States, has an adjustable back seat. It can be lowered or raised. I would say the back seat was approximately 6 inches higher than the jump seats on which Mrs. Connally and I sat.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know for certain whether or not the movable back seat was elevated at the time?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I could not be sure of it, although I know there were---there was a time or two when he did elevate it, and I think beyond question on most of the ride in San Antonio, Forth Worth, Houston, and Dallas, it was elevated. For a while the reason I know is--I sat on the back seat with him during part of the ride, particularly in San Antonio, not in Dallas, but in San Antonio. The wind was blowing, and we were traveling fairly fast, and Mrs. Kennedy preferred to sit on the jump seat, and I was sitting on the back seat part of the time, and the seat was elevated, and I think it was on substantially all the trip.
Mr. SPECTER. Was the portion elevated, that where only the President sat?
Governor CONNALLY. No: the entire back seat.
In reality there was perhaps a six-inch spread of height differences available depending upon how the seat had been adjusted. In other words the seat could have been positioned anywhere up to six inches higher or lower depending on the wishes of the person riding in the rear seat. Did you take the fact that the limousine had an adjustable seat into account when making your conclusions?
E) “Therefore, the possibility of a SB scenario that the WC worked so hard to create was based on faulty measurements. We can only agree that whatever conclusions the WC came to were incorrect, because they were based on incorrect data.
If the seat was adjustable the measurements of the two different scenarios are not based on faulty measurements but rather incomplete data gathered within moments of the assassination. Any height measurement made after the fact would be subject to question because of the nature of the adjustable seat. The information you have presented together with the Connally testimony seems to indicate that the question of seat height is well within the possible parameters of the adjustable seat. Would you agree?
F) “All that matters to the LNTs is that there 'is' 'an SBT'. They 'believe' in 'the SBT'. They do this as a matter of blind faith, as is evidenced by the fact that they continue to spew forth ridiculous garbage only to deceive the naive.”
I am not a LNT by any means but I do have the above questions drawn from your comments.
Jim Root
Let me start out by saying I do not believe that Oswald was a “nut.” I also believe there was a conspiracy. With that said I would like to ask some questions of your article and make a few observations.
A) “In order to accommodate their thinking that Oswald (LHO) fired all the shots as well as to resolve the issue of there having been no bullet fragments found in either the neck wound of President Kennedy (JFK) or in the back or chest wounds of Governor Connally (JBC) they suggest that the 'magic' bullet found on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital about 2 hours after the assassination, (rather than being planted, as all indications show), created 7 wounds in JFK and JBC and emerged in nearly pristine condition.”
“One question I am certain that the doctors must have asked, is simply "where are the bullets"? Only two small fragments were retrieved from JFK's skull, two others from the front of the Presidential Limousine, plus one tiny sliver from the arm of JBC. Only the 'magic bullet' could clearly be connected to the Mannlicher-Carcano (MC) supposedly owned by LHO.”
Whoever “planted, as all indications show” the “magic bullet” must have been very happy to find that there were no bullet fragments discovered “in either the neck wound of President Kennedy (JFK) or in the back or chest wounds of Governor Connally (JBC)…” This would suggest that the doctors/nurses etc. that initially worked on Connally were part of the conspiracy. A bullet that would be found in “nearly pristine condition” could only be a part of the cover-up if no bullet fragments were to be found. Since the bullet was discovered before the surgery on Connally was completed, all in attendance in the operating room could be considered suspects in disposing of any unwanted fragments or the “pristine bullet” would never fly as evidence. Conversely if fragments were found the “pristine bullet” could not have been pristine. Do you think fragments were discarded to protect the concept of a “pristine bullet” or that there were no fragments and whoever “planted, as all indications show” the bullet was, some how, sure none would be found?
Where did the bullet go that created the “..about an inch, an inch and a quarter long is all…” (Testimony of John Connally) hole in Connally’s left thigh?Once again we have to go to those in the operating room or to the person who “planted, as all indications show” the “magic bullet” to have also removed the left thigh bullet and, as seems logical, to have discarded it. Connally, who was conscious enough to attempt to get out of the limousine at Parkland Hospital does not ever recall someone removing a bullet from his left thigh on the way into surgery. He admittedly was fading in and out of consciousness but how difficult would the removal of a bullet be while he is being wheeled into surgery with his wife at his side? Once again the staff in the operating room are the most likely culprits or the bullet was easily removed by the same person that “planted, as all indications show” it. Logic would seem to indicate that if the “pristine” bullet planter could easily remove the bullet, without being noticed, while Connally is being wheeled into surgery it would be just as easy for that bullet to just fall out on the stretcher and that obviously did not happen because it was “planted, as all indications show.” Do you think the left thigh bullet was easy to remove on the way into the operating room or that it would have required surgery to be removed?
So, it would seem possible, we have two distinct groups of conspirators at Parkland Hospital. The bullet planter and the operating room staff that extracted the left thigh bullet and discarded it along with any unwanted bullet fragments. By default they would have to be conspirators because they were acting in concert although independently of each other.
Would you agree that those in the Connally operating room could be considered conspirators in this sense?
C) “Each scenario of "THE SBT" now, contains the following consistency -- One bullet, CE 399, fired by LHO from the M-C from the 6th floor of the TSBD, caused JFK's back wound and neck wound, as well as all of JBC's wounds to back, chest, wrist and thigh.” “…The HSCA also did a trajectory analysis of the shots. However, when it came to their SB scenario, they only concerned themselves with where the shot had hit JFK, and ignored the subsequent position of JBC.”
Taking into account the position of John Connally, in your opinion, from where was the bullet that caused Connally’s left thigh wound fired? Left, right, front or rear? From the right you would have a trajectory analysis that would be very steep because of the side of the limousine and would be inconsistent with the actual wound. From the left you would have Nellie to contend with plus the wound. From the front you have the dashboard and the angle of the wound. From the rear the bullet would have to have traveled through Connally first but that would suggest a single bullet that was “spent” by the time it hit the left thigh. From where did this “magic bullet” come from?
D) “In the WC's enthusiasm for truth they had two drawings created of the two limousines -- the Presidential Limousine SS-100-X and SS-679-X that was used in the reenactment. There are numerous measurements shown on them. However, there is one dimension missing -- the height. Of course, that is THE critical dimension for making a comparison between one car and the other.” “…Arlen Specter and Kelley agreed that the clearance from the jump seat to the passenger door was 6 inches. (VH132) They also agreed the difference between the height of the two men was 1 1/2 inches.” “…In addition, the height differential used by the WC was a mere one and 1/2 inches. The HSCA later stated that this difference was 8 cm, or app. 3.5 inches. Quite a difference, don't you think?”
The “difference between the height of the two men” is referenced clearly in John Connally’s testimony before the Warren Commission:
Mr. SPECTER. What was the relative height of the Jump seats, Governor, with respect to the seat of the President and Mrs. Kennedy immediately to your rear?
Governor CONNALLY. They were somewhat lower. The back seat of that particular Lincoln limousine, which is a specially designed and built automobile, as you know, for the President of the United States, has an adjustable back seat. It can be lowered or raised. I would say the back seat was approximately 6 inches higher than the jump seats on which Mrs. Connally and I sat.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know for certain whether or not the movable back seat was elevated at the time?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I could not be sure of it, although I know there were---there was a time or two when he did elevate it, and I think beyond question on most of the ride in San Antonio, Forth Worth, Houston, and Dallas, it was elevated. For a while the reason I know is--I sat on the back seat with him during part of the ride, particularly in San Antonio, not in Dallas, but in San Antonio. The wind was blowing, and we were traveling fairly fast, and Mrs. Kennedy preferred to sit on the jump seat, and I was sitting on the back seat part of the time, and the seat was elevated, and I think it was on substantially all the trip.
Mr. SPECTER. Was the portion elevated, that where only the President sat?
Governor CONNALLY. No: the entire back seat.
In reality there was perhaps a six-inch spread of height differences available depending upon how the seat had been adjusted. In other words the seat could have been positioned anywhere up to six inches higher or lower depending on the wishes of the person riding in the rear seat. Did you take the fact that the limousine had an adjustable seat into account when making your conclusions?
E) “Therefore, the possibility of a SB scenario that the WC worked so hard to create was based on faulty measurements. We can only agree that whatever conclusions the WC came to were incorrect, because they were based on incorrect data.
If the seat was adjustable the measurements of the two different scenarios are not based on faulty measurements but rather incomplete data gathered within moments of the assassination. Any height measurement made after the fact would be subject to question because of the nature of the adjustable seat. The information you have presented together with the Connally testimony seems to indicate that the question of seat height is well within the possible parameters of the adjustable seat. Would you agree?
F) “All that matters to the LNTs is that there 'is' 'an SBT'. They 'believe' in 'the SBT'. They do this as a matter of blind faith, as is evidenced by the fact that they continue to spew forth ridiculous garbage only to deceive the naive.”
I am not a LNT by any means but I do have the above questions drawn from your comments.
Jim Root
Bill Miller,Dec 16 2004, 11:23 PM said:
Photo experts for the last 40 years have not said anything like what you are talking about.
Really Bill? That is called the fallacy of the appeal to authority. Neither do we have all the answers yet about the assassination. Why is that? In part, because we listen to 'authorities' rather than using our own brains.
Pamela
Photo experts for the last 40 years have not said anything like what you are talking about.
Really Bill? That is called the fallacy of the appeal to authority. Neither do we have all the answers yet about the assassination. Why is that? In part, because we listen to 'authorities' rather than using our own brains.
Pamela
Bill Miller,Dec 17 2004, 08:33 AM said:
Pam - I am a bit confused.
Yes, that's evident by your reply.
There are two areas of discussion; you seem to be lumping them together. Let me see if I can make myself more clear.
1 -- The tiny reflection of JBC is the first area we discussed. As JFK's clenched fists are separated by about 5 inches at Z 255, that cannot be JFK's right fist, as you have tried to claim.
2 -- The back of the rear-view mirror area of the windshield, which contains reflections that have appeared to some to be part of JFK's face. It seems that you are not one of those.
I have taken the liberty to place your original Newspaper Altgens 6 photo with the box you placed on it and put it over the better quality Altgens 6 print and have allowed the two to fade in and out.
It is Z 255 that is the equivalent of the Altgens 1-6. You have published Z 254.
Pamela
Pam - I am a bit confused.
Yes, that's evident by your reply.
There are two areas of discussion; you seem to be lumping them together. Let me see if I can make myself more clear.
1 -- The tiny reflection of JBC is the first area we discussed. As JFK's clenched fists are separated by about 5 inches at Z 255, that cannot be JFK's right fist, as you have tried to claim.
2 -- The back of the rear-view mirror area of the windshield, which contains reflections that have appeared to some to be part of JFK's face. It seems that you are not one of those.
I have taken the liberty to place your original Newspaper Altgens 6 photo with the box you placed on it and put it over the better quality Altgens 6 print and have allowed the two to fade in and out.
It is Z 255 that is the equivalent of the Altgens 1-6. You have published Z 254.
Pamela
Jim Root,Dec 16 2004, 05:01 PM said:
Do you know if there has ever been any movement in the attempt to retrieve the bullet fragment from Connelly's wrist and thigh?
Thank you for posting this article about Gov. Connally and the bullet fragments still in his body. It is my understanding that his body was cremated (quickly) and that finding the fragments per se would now be impossible. The entire scenario involving him, however, simply reeks IMO. From the time he was put under guard in PH until his death, I believe he was walking a tightwire and doing what he could to speak the truth of what he knew and yet stay in the public eye. I feel that it must have been very difficult for him. I have wondered if his insistence on a separate bullet hitting him than the first bullet that hit JFK may have been a symbol for him; his way of saying that he knew there was more than one gunman, though he was unable to speak out.
What is your take on neutron activation analysis to test the various bullets and fragments in this case?
It is my thinking that whatever bullet fragments were 'found' were what the SS wanted to be found. If they were planted, the various tests are not relevant, as they do not take that into account. So I haven't spent a lot of time analyzing them.
Where do you think the Connelly thigh wounding bullet was fired from?
It is my thinking that one of the shooters was in the TSBD (not LHO) and that this is probably where that shot came from.
Thank you for your great paper!
Thanks for your support!
Pamela
Do you know if there has ever been any movement in the attempt to retrieve the bullet fragment from Connelly's wrist and thigh?
Thank you for posting this article about Gov. Connally and the bullet fragments still in his body. It is my understanding that his body was cremated (quickly) and that finding the fragments per se would now be impossible. The entire scenario involving him, however, simply reeks IMO. From the time he was put under guard in PH until his death, I believe he was walking a tightwire and doing what he could to speak the truth of what he knew and yet stay in the public eye. I feel that it must have been very difficult for him. I have wondered if his insistence on a separate bullet hitting him than the first bullet that hit JFK may have been a symbol for him; his way of saying that he knew there was more than one gunman, though he was unable to speak out.
What is your take on neutron activation analysis to test the various bullets and fragments in this case?
It is my thinking that whatever bullet fragments were 'found' were what the SS wanted to be found. If they were planted, the various tests are not relevant, as they do not take that into account. So I haven't spent a lot of time analyzing them.
Where do you think the Connelly thigh wounding bullet was fired from?
It is my thinking that one of the shooters was in the TSBD (not LHO) and that this is probably where that shot came from.
Thank you for your great paper!
Thanks for your support!
Pamela
Jim Root,Dec 19 2004, 10:27 PM said:
Do you think fragments were discarded to protect the concept of a “pristine bullet” or that there were no fragments and whoever “planted, as all indications show” the bullet was, some how, sure none would be found?
I do not believe that all the bullets/fragments that were in JBC's body made it to the FBI lab.
Where did the bullet go that created the “..about an inch, an inch and a quarter long is all…” (Testimony of John Connally) hole in Connally’s left thigh?
Whatever made that wound would most logically have remained lodged in his leg.
Once again we have to go to those in the operating room or to the person who “planted, as all indications show” the “magic bullet” to have also removed the left thigh bullet and, as seems logical, to have discarded it.
I'm not thinking both were done by the same person. Interesting point though.
Do you think the left thigh bullet was easy to remove on the way into the operating room or that it would have required surgery to be removed?
I don't know if I agree the bullet would have remained whole. I think the pieces would have been removed during surgery. The fact that the PH team talks about pieces being 'left in' JBC makes me think that could be a euphemism for some hanky panky going on regarding the fragments in him.
So, it would seem possible, we have two distinct groups of conspirators at Parkland Hospital. The bullet planter and the operating room staff that extracted the left thigh bullet and discarded it along with any unwanted bullet fragments. By default they would have to be conspirators because they were acting in concert although independently of each other.
Perhaps.
Would you agree that those in the Connally operating room could be considered conspirators in this sense?
Something happened during and/or subsequent to JBC's surgery. I think pressure may have been put on those involved. In addition, it's not impossible that fragments were 'lost' while in transit from Dallas to DC.
It is my position that JFK was hit by a shot to the throat and JBC by a shot to the back.
In reality there was perhaps a six-inch spread of height differences available depending upon how the seat had been adjusted. In other words the seat could have been positioned anywhere up to six inches higher or lower depending on the wishes of the person riding in the rear seat. Did you take the fact that the limousine had an adjustable seat into account when making your conclusions?
That is not relevant in that I used the WC's measurments. The WC never said anything about using a measurement other than at the limo's lowest rear seat position.
If the seat was adjustable the measurements of the two different scenarios are not based on faulty measurements but rather incomplete data gathered within moments of the assassination. Any height measurement made after the fact would be subject to question because of the nature of the adjustable seat. The information you have presented together with the Connally testimony seems to indicate that the question of seat height is well within the possible parameters of the adjustable seat. Would you agree?
No. The WC considered the seat height in its lowest position.
Pamela
Do you think fragments were discarded to protect the concept of a “pristine bullet” or that there were no fragments and whoever “planted, as all indications show” the bullet was, some how, sure none would be found?
I do not believe that all the bullets/fragments that were in JBC's body made it to the FBI lab.
Where did the bullet go that created the “..about an inch, an inch and a quarter long is all…” (Testimony of John Connally) hole in Connally’s left thigh?
Whatever made that wound would most logically have remained lodged in his leg.
Once again we have to go to those in the operating room or to the person who “planted, as all indications show” the “magic bullet” to have also removed the left thigh bullet and, as seems logical, to have discarded it.
I'm not thinking both were done by the same person. Interesting point though.
Do you think the left thigh bullet was easy to remove on the way into the operating room or that it would have required surgery to be removed?
I don't know if I agree the bullet would have remained whole. I think the pieces would have been removed during surgery. The fact that the PH team talks about pieces being 'left in' JBC makes me think that could be a euphemism for some hanky panky going on regarding the fragments in him.
So, it would seem possible, we have two distinct groups of conspirators at Parkland Hospital. The bullet planter and the operating room staff that extracted the left thigh bullet and discarded it along with any unwanted bullet fragments. By default they would have to be conspirators because they were acting in concert although independently of each other.
Perhaps.
Would you agree that those in the Connally operating room could be considered conspirators in this sense?
Something happened during and/or subsequent to JBC's surgery. I think pressure may have been put on those involved. In addition, it's not impossible that fragments were 'lost' while in transit from Dallas to DC.
It is my position that JFK was hit by a shot to the throat and JBC by a shot to the back.
In reality there was perhaps a six-inch spread of height differences available depending upon how the seat had been adjusted. In other words the seat could have been positioned anywhere up to six inches higher or lower depending on the wishes of the person riding in the rear seat. Did you take the fact that the limousine had an adjustable seat into account when making your conclusions?
That is not relevant in that I used the WC's measurments. The WC never said anything about using a measurement other than at the limo's lowest rear seat position.
If the seat was adjustable the measurements of the two different scenarios are not based on faulty measurements but rather incomplete data gathered within moments of the assassination. Any height measurement made after the fact would be subject to question because of the nature of the adjustable seat. The information you have presented together with the Connally testimony seems to indicate that the question of seat height is well within the possible parameters of the adjustable seat. Would you agree?
No. The WC considered the seat height in its lowest position.
Pamela
Pamela
"No. The WC considered the seat height in its lowest position."
How does this fit with the Connally testimony?
Jim Root
"No. The WC considered the seat height in its lowest position."
How does this fit with the Connally testimony?
Jim Root
Jim Root,Dec 21 2004 said:
How does this fit with the Connally testimony?
Nellie Connally has made statements that she believed the back seat to have been elevated too. It may have been their perception, as the jump seats were so much lower than the back seat.
However, when the back seat was elevated it was clearly visible as you can see in this linked photo:
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/window.jpg
However, during the Dallas motorcade and the assassination, the seat remained in its lowest position.
Look at the Altgens 1-7 at http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelam1/jfk.html halfway down the page (unable to upload attachments here)
Pamela
How does this fit with the Connally testimony?
Nellie Connally has made statements that she believed the back seat to have been elevated too. It may have been their perception, as the jump seats were so much lower than the back seat.
However, when the back seat was elevated it was clearly visible as you can see in this linked photo:
http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelajfk/window.jpg
However, during the Dallas motorcade and the assassination, the seat remained in its lowest position.
Look at the Altgens 1-7 at http://www.mindspring.com/~pamelam1/jfk.html halfway down the page (unable to upload attachments here)
Pamela
Pamela
I may be a simpleton on this so please bare with me.
If the rear seat is elevated it changes the height difference between the two, in this case, victims. If the "the jump seats were so much lower than the back seat" doesn't this do the exact same thing (i.e. make a greater height differencial perceived/real)?
I guess my real guestion is, and I believe this is part of what you were getting at, does anyone, in fact, know what the actual height differential was at the time of the shooting?
Jim Root
I may be a simpleton on this so please bare with me.
If the rear seat is elevated it changes the height difference between the two, in this case, victims. If the "the jump seats were so much lower than the back seat" doesn't this do the exact same thing (i.e. make a greater height differencial perceived/real)?
I guess my real guestion is, and I believe this is part of what you were getting at, does anyone, in fact, know what the actual height differential was at the time of the shooting?
Jim Root
QUOTE
1 -- The tiny reflection of JBC is the first area we discussed. As JFK's clenched fists are separated by about 5 inches at Z 255, that cannot be JFK's right fist, as you have tried to claim.
Pam - you may wish tor review my past replies for I have never said that JFK's right fist is seen in Altgens 6. I mearly said several times now that we see JFK's index finger, mouth and cheek in the area you had placed a box in the poor copy print you had initially used.
QUOTE
2 -- The back of the rear-view mirror area of the windshield, which contains reflections that have appeared to some to be part of JFK's face. It seems that you are not one of those.
It is "impossible" for JFK to have cast a reflection to the windshield and onto the back of the plastic mirror.
QUOTE
It is Z 255 that is the equivalent of the Altgens 1-6. You have published Z 254.
Pamela
Pamela
The reason for my doing this is quite simple. There is less than 1/18th of a second between Z254 and Z255. Z255 is somewhat blurred, so I opted to use the better of the two frames considering that JFK did not change his his head and index finger position in less than 1/18th of a second. Between Z254 and Z256, I see Connally turn his head - the limo rotate - and JFK lower his right hand. (see attachments)
QUOTE (Jim Root @ Dec 22 2004, 08:13 PM)
Pamela
I may be a simpleton on this so please bare with me.
If the rear seat is elevated it changes the height difference between the two, in this case, victims. If the "the jump seats were so much lower than the back seat" doesn't this do the exact same thing (i.e. make a greater height differencial perceived/real)?
I guess my real guestion is, and I believe this is part of what you were getting at, does anyone, in fact, know what the actual height differential was at the time of the shooting?
Jim Root
I may be a simpleton on this so please bare with me.
If the rear seat is elevated it changes the height difference between the two, in this case, victims. If the "the jump seats were so much lower than the back seat" doesn't this do the exact same thing (i.e. make a greater height differencial perceived/real)?
I guess my real guestion is, and I believe this is part of what you were getting at, does anyone, in fact, know what the actual height differential was at the time of the shooting?
Jim Root
Jim...this Towner photo shows the height differential. I believe someone
figured it at about 8", but don't remember where to find the documentation.
The jump seats were close to the floor, while the back seat was elevated.
Jack
Bill Miller,Dec 23 2004, 01:20 AM said:
I have never said that JFK's right fist is seen in Altgens 6. I mearly said several times now that we see JFK's index finger, mouth and cheek in the area you had placed a box in the poor copy print you had initially used.
You are saying that the area that shows a small reflection of JBC you believe to be JFK's finger, mouth and cheek? Have you bothered to check the shape and alignment of the 'finger' in Z255 with the Altgens 1-6? It is generally accepted that both of JFK's hands were clenched, yet you claim his 'finger' is pointing? But it's isn't doing any such thing in Z255 is it?
The reason for my [showing Z256 instead of Z255] doing this is quite simple.
Simple does not make it correct, does it?
Pamela
I have never said that JFK's right fist is seen in Altgens 6. I mearly said several times now that we see JFK's index finger, mouth and cheek in the area you had placed a box in the poor copy print you had initially used.
You are saying that the area that shows a small reflection of JBC you believe to be JFK's finger, mouth and cheek? Have you bothered to check the shape and alignment of the 'finger' in Z255 with the Altgens 1-6? It is generally accepted that both of JFK's hands were clenched, yet you claim his 'finger' is pointing? But it's isn't doing any such thing in Z255 is it?
The reason for my [showing Z256 instead of Z255] doing this is quite simple.
Simple does not make it correct, does it?
Pamela
QUOTE
You are saying that the area that shows a small reflection of JBC you believe to be JFK's finger, mouth and cheek? Have you bothered to check the shape and alignment of the 'finger' in Z255 with the Altgens 1-6? It is generally accepted that both of JFK's hands were clenched, yet you claim his 'finger' is pointing? But it's isn't doing any such thing in Z255 is it?
Pam - I don't know who generally accepts that both JFK's fist were still clinched in Z254, Z255, and Z256. As a matter of fact it is generally accepted that his index finger is extended in Altgens 6 which matches Z255 and this is how the experts arrived at that conclusion...
In figure one we see Z254 - Z255 - and Z256. Note how Z255 blurs out to the point that you cannot tell anything by looking at it. The frames immediately before and after Z255 are much clearer. So how did the experts choose frame (Z255) to match Altgens 6? They did it by seeing that in Z254, JFK has started to unfurl his index finger ... they noted that it is extended out into the sunlight making it visible over the others that are still bent inward and in shadow. By Z256, JFK's index finger is straightened passed the point where we see it in Altgens 6. That means that Z255 being the midpoint between Z254 and Z256 was the best frame in time and space to match how the finger looked in Altgens 6. (see attachment one)
In figure two I show Z254 and Z256 only. By eliminating the blurry frame (Z255) we can better track the index finger. Somewhere between those two positions Altgens took his #6 photograph. That equates Altgens 6 with Z255. (see attachment two)
In figure three we see Z254 - Z255 - and Z256 in motion. Z255 blurs and stretches, thus taking with it valuable interpretation information. (see attachment three)
The forum software seems to want to put the attachments in whatever order it wishes instead of the order I chose. I have since adjusted the text to match the order of the attachments.
Bill
Bill Miller,Dec 24 2004, 03:00 AM
I don't know who generally accepts that both JFK's fist were still clinched in Z254, Z255, and Z256. As a matter of fact it is generally accepted that his index finger is extended in Altgens 6 which matches Z255 and this is how the experts arrived at that conclusion...
What is your cite for that statement? Even so, that still begs the question that the shape and angle of what you are referencing in the 1-6 is quite different from that in Z254.
In addition, as you can see in Z255, the angle of JFK's face is not the such that it would coordinate with the area in the 1-6 with the small reflection of JBC.
Pamela
I don't know who generally accepts that both JFK's fist were still clinched in Z254, Z255, and Z256. As a matter of fact it is generally accepted that his index finger is extended in Altgens 6 which matches Z255 and this is how the experts arrived at that conclusion...
What is your cite for that statement? Even so, that still begs the question that the shape and angle of what you are referencing in the 1-6 is quite different from that in Z254.
In addition, as you can see in Z255, the angle of JFK's face is not the such that it would coordinate with the area in the 1-6 with the small reflection of JBC.
Pamela
QUOTE (Pamela McElwain-Brown @ Dec 25 2004, 06:38 AM)
Bill Miller,Dec 24 2004, 03:00 AM
I don't know who generally accepts that both JFK's fist were still clinched in Z254, Z255, and Z256. As a matter of fact it is generally accepted that his index finger is extended in Altgens 6 which matches Z255 and this is how the experts arrived at that conclusion...
What is your cite for that statement? Even so, that still begs the question that the shape and angle of what you are referencing in the 1-6 is quite different from that in Z254.
In addition, as you can see in Z255, the angle of JFK's face is not the such that it would coordinate with the area in the 1-6 with the small reflection of JBC.
Pamela
I don't know who generally accepts that both JFK's fist were still clinched in Z254, Z255, and Z256. As a matter of fact it is generally accepted that his index finger is extended in Altgens 6 which matches Z255 and this is how the experts arrived at that conclusion...
What is your cite for that statement? Even so, that still begs the question that the shape and angle of what you are referencing in the 1-6 is quite different from that in Z254.
In addition, as you can see in Z255, the angle of JFK's face is not the such that it would coordinate with the area in the 1-6 with the small reflection of JBC.
Pamela
[B]I have heard that information in several circles and presentatations thoughtout the JFK community. I have discussed with Robert Groden, Gary Mack, and others in the past. Had I of not spoken to anyone, I would have known what frame it matched by referencing the index finger position. Page 312 of Richard trask book "Pictures of the Pain" says that Z255 equates with Altgens 6.
I personally think you are making several mistakes. One is that you are not reading the perspective differences between Altgens and Zapruder's positions very well. Secondly you keep referring to what you see in Z255 and it's little more than blurred mud. You'll have to stand alone on your beliefs that Kennedy is not positioned correctly in Z255 to match Altgens #6 photo. Sometime if you have the chance - position someone as you see them from in front of your car as seen in Altgens 6 photo. Then have them remain like that while you get up on a tall ladder or a hill and look down at them from the same angle Zapruder did and you should find that both postures match A6 and Z255.
Attachment one shows the second frame (Z255) is mud. The face becomes blurred, the finger all but vanishes.
Attachment two shows the body change between Z254 and Z256 by removing the bad frame (Z255)
Attachment three shows the finger point - no closed left fist at that point.[B]
Study the index finger position carefully. Note when the top of the hand is almost even with the mouth and compare that to Altgens photograph.
This in no way resembles what you say. Nor is anything analogous to the Altgens. In addition, the small reflection of JBC is clearly in front of whatever it is you think you're seeing. There is little to see other than reflections and Jackie's gloves.
Pamela
Pamela
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