THE WC, Clark Panel and HSCA didn't ask the "correct" questions and now we have to ask the "correct" questions to get the "correct" answers. We are fed morsels as is seen fit. Kudos to GPH for feeding us some morsels, but the process really stinks. It is similar to what I read in Twyman's book. People ask "stupid" questions because we still can't make sense of this horrific event and the government sure didn't give a s**t about seeking and providing truthful answers. There is derision when shooters are alleged to be in the sewer or firing poisoned darts from umbrellas. But what is the alternative? JFK had a 3-5mm fronal neck wound and Perry verified that long ago to Weisberg. Perry wiped the blood away and said it had a "ring of bruising". Perry's memory had intentionally or otherwise failed him, but the statement is in Post Mortem and I believe Weisberg taped his interviews. So maybe if we ask 100 stupid questions about the origin of that neck wound then maybe we will have asked the "correct" one and be thrown another morsel by GPH. Mr. Hemming...why would you still want to play such a game all these years later? "Amateurs" have put in a lot of work to understand this event. My thanks to "amateurs" like Vince Palamera and many others for trying to contribute to our understanding of the event when others...who really might know what happened..... choose not to contribute most or all they may know.

I was intrigued by Gerry's statement that it was he who introduced Russo to "Angelo" and dug up Russo's book to see the results of this meeting.

According to Russo, Angelo told him that he accompanied RFK on more than one occasion to the home of Norman Rothman, a mobster with ties to Lansky. According to Russo, Rothman himself told the HSCA he met with Kennedy aides within the White House and discussed killing Castro in Kennedy's office. And yet Rothman seems to have left out that he'd met with Kennedy himself in Florida! Hmmm... Why would he leave this out? Wouldn't it bolster his credibility if he could show he'd actually met with RFK, at a time when RFK was actually in Florida? I'm sorry but I think Russo is wrong to cite Angelo's story as support for Rothman's story. The two stories are, if anything, in conflict.

I believe Angelo's story even less now. I suspect he threw in the Rothman bit to give the Kennedy-hating Russo his money's worth.

James:

We have done quite a bit of private e-mail correspondence over many months, but
in this case I will correct once again a false assumption which is not your fault, but one which can be laid at the doorstep of "THE AUTHORITIES" who have good reason for obfuscation.

"Rudolfo Fasco" does not exist. This real person of interest is Rudolph "Rudy" FUSCO, who ran a store in the 1800 block of West Flagler Street, Miami. He was the cousin of Hyman "The Jeep King" Berg of Chicago, and was related by marriage to Yonatan Rubenstein, a/k/a "Jack Ruby. The sign on the front of Fusco's store read "Fishin' Fusco", and he approached us after the Bay of Pigs attempting to make yet another surplus U.S. military equipment & vehicles sale, just as he had scammed "Mineral Carriers, Ldt." on Stock Island, Key West (Their unofficial Logo was: "Minerals? We Carry Hot Lead & Cold Steel"). [This occured while Bob Reynolds' predecessor at JM/WAVE was attempting to insert his then miniscule "boy scout troupe" into the JM/ATE [BOP] Task Force.]

Zenith Technical was originally situated at the former NAF (LTA) Richmond [Blimp Base] PRIMARILY due to the fact that the acreage hosted the US Coast Guard "antenna farm" -- which would serve as cover for their original "PRIMARY" F.B.I.S. [Foreign Broadcast Intercept Bureau] tasking, which was intended to be a "monitoring only" facility ONLY, despite individual fantasies that it would serve as a transmit/receive/covert communications entity serving the "anti-Castro underground". Since simple "DFing [Direction Finder] techniques used by Cuba would have compromised Op/Sec, Mr. Prinz of Gibraltar Steamship, was given the "green light" to imitate the WWII style ["Verlain Letters" in the book & movie] broadcasting "in-the-blind" !! Thus arose Bill Turner's comical assessment [and book title] "The Fish is Red".

[This completely ignored Frank Wisner, Sr.'s bald and deadly compromising of both Comm/Sec & Op/Sec during his O.P.C. Ops; especially those with the N.T.S. entities in the Ukraine, and the "Partisans" in Albania [doing the early 1950s !!]

"Fishin' Fusco put us on the telephone with Hyman Berg [during early 1962] once again, and without getting into a similar call to Ruby that same week, the only item we ever received from "Rudy" was a WWII 1/2 ton "Weapons Carrier".
However, when just driving out to the Everglades in said vehicle raised our profile drastically [suddenly appearing that we weren't "rag-tag" waffle-eaters at Nellies' anymore, we returned same to the store.]

Ruby had involved the whole Chicago crowd in the 1959 attempt to sell surplus junk to Fidel's nascent Rebel Army & Air Force; along with Dominic Bartone of the Cleveland mob ["The Mayfield Road Gang"].

The above referenced photo centers on Fusco's minor contribution [1963] to the "Pirate Radio Transmitter Boat", which was mostly financed by Freddie Duran's wealthy mother.

NOTE: I would assure all, that NONE of the foregoing and above-mentioned had anything whatsoever to do with Dealey Plaza. Not that I would want to admonish the loud-mouth "Canuck" who joined this Forum last January, and along with his "music biz" has "studied?" the JFK matter for "40 years ??". Just what was around in 1965 for you to study "Mr. DJ" -- mayhaps Epstein's inconclusive "Inquest"; or maybe Lane's "law review article" which he styled as "Rush to Judgment" ?? I suspect that you shant admit "studying" the 26 volumes of cover-up, perjury, forgery, and blatant lies.

Not that I disagree with the motives for said cover-up, which RFK obligingly encouraged during 1964. Why, because then, as today, the threat of nuclear holocaust hung in the air like "Damocles' Sword". The greatest fear of the Washington elite was that Congress would [in accordance with the Constitution]
issue "Letters of Marque" instead of a "War Declaration", because Congress knew well that such a joint resolution would NOT be prosecuted by the Executive Branch, which retained fears of a launch of the 5/10 kiloton (fission) warhead tipped FROG "Cruise Missiles" retained at the Soviet naval base, Banes [Oriente Province/north coast], Cuba until late 1966.
[FROG was the NATO designation, and translated as "Free-Ranging-Over-Ground"]

Also, the publisher I signed a contract with during the mid-1990s was threatened with both the "Espionage" and "The Itelligence Identities Act", and quickly chickenshitted out. So much for the "contract signing cocktail party" we had celebrated prior thereto.

Methinks I will add just another ridiculous "closing motto" which has been adopted by some members. Mine is from circa 1953 "Mad Comics". Moreover, the one used erroneously and quoting E. Howard Hunt, needs to be clarified. Firstly, I never like Hunt in the old days, and even less today -- and principally because he defied Joannides in putting the "30th of November" group back on the JM/WAVE payroll, which was conditioned upon their severing ties with our instructor cadre, and pull their trainees back to "couch-potato" and suck up " Dept. of Ag. refugee rations". And Hunt coupled this with threats to take their entire families off of the relief roles should they not cease and desist.

However, the reality of "Eduardo's" many rants as to "one's right-to-the-truth"
[and avoiding comparisons with Jack Nicholson's USMC Colonel in the "A Few Good Men" ant-War movie] -- whether at Weberman's or Spotlight's depositions,
NO PRIVATE CITIZEN HAS A "RIGHT" TO THE "TRUTH" !! And this is especially so when the "leading" question's response might be inculpatory, and violative of 5th Amendment protections.

Amazing, Now I am hearing that I had a duty to "report" something to "The Authorities ??!!"; coupled now with a duty to "report" everything to some completely unknown scribbler on this Forum !! I don't need either family members or prospective publishing houses to once again nag the hell out of me for giving away the goods for free, and thus abrogating their financial interests !!

As for Nellie Hamilton's: that was set up by Sturgis prior to BOP, and we used that boarding house for exactly two weeks. When Sturgis failed to pay the rent, and told her to seek same from me, we were "Outta-there". Some, with jobs or family stipends, stayed on -- but after CIA Jounalist cover Dom Bonafede [Miami Herald] did "Hank" Chavez's bidding [JM/WAVE] to "burn" us, we rented several safehouses in the Negro district where "lilly-white" FBI agents and local cops couldn't do any unobserved surveillance of same.

As for Tony Summers [and Robyn Swan], I have done interviews with both. Unfortunately, a-la-Weberman, they can't get their stories straight, or refashion same to suit their's, or their editor's agendas and demands.

As for my buddy Bill Turner, The only thing he got correct in "10 Second Jailbreak" [later styled in the movie with Chas. Bronson as "Breakout"] was the fact that our "Canuck" Bill Dempsey did in fact return $40,000 to Joel Kaplan's sister. Surprise, Surprise !! [Gomering] It was Howard Davis who was approached by the "Folk Singer", and he set up the entire prison helicopter snatch in Mexico.

I recruited "Chopper Pilot??" Vic Stadter at Bartlett Field [Ontario, California] via my kindergarten pal, Art Dodd, who was then a Rotory-wing CFI ["FAA Certified Helicopter Instructor"]. However, and due to the Federal 5 year statute of limitations [and the "ongoing criminal enterprise/conspiracy statute sans limitations]; not too many of those involved in "derring-do" are stupid enough to expose themselves to government retribution just to satisfy a scribbler or a scrivener !!

Somebody had better check that brown neck stain, it definetly is NOT "ring-around-the-collar" !!

Cheers mate,

GPH
----------------------------
"WHAT, ME WORRY ?" -- Alfred E. Neuman
_______________________________________

Ron wrote:

Or as the great yodeler Slim Whitman might sing, "Odio lady who?"

SAAAAAAYYYY....maybe the New Vaudeville Band back in the '60's was sending us a coded message in "Winchester Cathedral":

Obe Odio dough?

[I don't read the code very well]

Mr. Hemming,

Excuse me for being an amatuer in this investigation. But I believe I caught on quite some time ago that the lobbing of nukes was a real possibility had the investigation of the JFK assassination actually revealed the truth.

And when ACTUAL national security issues are involved, I agree that the public has no "divine" right to the truth. But after witnessing all the bullsh*t that has been swept under the rug in the holy name of "national security" over the past 42 years [I'm only 50, so I couldn't possibly have witnessed much more than that and actually understood any of it], I wonder just how much of what we're told is "for our own good" rather than having any remote connection with the truth.

While I don't think anything you might reveal would put your life in danger anymore [just a guess...'cause I figure anyone who actually cares, that was involved, is probably dead, in a vegetative state, or sitting on a beach thousands of miles away sipping drinks with umbrellas in 'em, knowing that by now there are so many crackpot theories out there that another one implicating THEM would be like another grain of sand on the beach], I can understand the potential economic implications of your telling of the entire story.

I know it's been said that history is just the winners' version of what happened, but I would hope that you could eventually tell your story and set the record straight, as you know it, for the sake of history as well.

While you've revealed a lot of tantalizing bits and pieces, I just don't have the inside information necessary to crack all your cryptic comments [but some read more clearly after they've had a few days to sink in and mesh with other known elements]. Rather than antagonize you, I'd rather see you keep posting your comments and tidbits...because, eventually, I might just learn enough to end up asking the right questions myself. Just hope neither of us runs out of time before that happens.

The other part that smells is that Murgado would go to the Odio's apartment seeking assistance. Nonsense. They told the Odio sisters they were friends of her father's and members of JURE. That was a lie. That's called disinfo. Going to someone's house and telling them lies and then insinuating that a man affiliated with her father's political group wants to kill Kennedy is not seeking assistance.

I couldn't have said it better, whatever is coming out needs to be analyzed objectively and critically and not swallowed hook, line and sinker. Just ask the HSCA's chief researcher Gaeton Fonzi.
"According to Colby's notes she (Clair Booth Luce) admitted...she had concocted the name (Julio Fernandez).... I only knew one thing for sure: An awful amount of time had been spent checking out Luce's story and, in the end, it led nowhere....."

Sometimes with intelligence and counter-intelligence operations as we all know, when information is revealed "it is a mixture of truth with a lie." While I believe that there is a lot of significant information contained in Mellen's book and her bona fides are impeccable, I wouldn't accept every bit of info. in it without a grain of salt. Corroboration is the best way to go. But I basically can accept the premise that Angel and Leopoldo were Murgado and De Torres.

---------------------

Mark:

You sound to me like a very "savvy" Hoosier, and no excusing is necessary since we ALL are amateurs, even when we are sometimes paid good money for our endeavors. [As member Dolva brought to our attention, "language" can be a very "puzzlin' melange", i.e.: "savvy" comes from the Spanish "Saber" = "To Know", and "comprende" comes along as to comprehend, or "do you understand?"]

Oftentimes what might appear "cryptic" is actually shorthand readily understood by the many "advanced/super members"; and were I to add definitions or addendums, they would most likely be offended/insulted considering the massive amount of work that they have put into this subject matter.

Contrary to one member's insinuations, I have NEVER feared harm or physical retribution against my person, as I have for many years possesed a Class-3 Federal Firearms License; and therewith I had lawful permission to carry submachineguns [silenced/suppressed] upon my person and in my vehicles and aircraft. That, coupled with executive protection security work [and lowclass "rent-a-cop" uniformed tours] abated any apprehensions that would-be attackers would escape unscathed. I have taken great pleasure over recent years that I no longer am burdened with the responsibility of going armed.

That same member [a peace officer] would most likely tell you that the uppermost burden on someone who "carries" is that dreaded scenario of sitting in a restaurant with family -- when armed felons initiate a robbery. What do you do when they confront you at the table, demand your wallet, and upon opening same, find your badge or just your CCW licence ??!! Do you take the bullet, or risk a shootout, surrounded by family and other innocent people ??!!

Throughout the late 1960s and into the early 1980s, carrying the "legend or reputation" of being one of the JFK hit team actually blazed a path of comraderie during my travels, especially when rubbing elbows with various and assorted "death squads".

Sadly, I experienced the burden of feeling responsible for the demise of a few of the persons named on that long list of "mysterious post-JFK deaths". The Dallas reporter, who interviewed Hall and I during January 1963, was killed by a "karate-chop" to the neck. The reporter sent by Weisberg or Garrison to California contacted Hargraves instead of me, and his focus shifted to the activities of the L.E.I.U. [Law Enforement Intelligence Unit]; and after speaking with Lt. Hendricks of the Long Beach Police Department; he was killed by the "accidental discharge" of a cop's service pistol in the police station locker room. [Lt. Hendricks was at the time the President of the nationwide LEIU]

You struck a cord with the "national security" reference. Immediately after giving testimony to the Church Committee [May 1975]; I filed under the FOIA/Privacy Act, and months later, just as heavily redacted copies started arriving in the mail [some pages were completely blacked out]; I was indicted by a federal grand jury. The few unredacted pages were documents related to my work with the drug interdiction task force, and it was obvious that these documents were being released for consumption by, inter alia, the Colombian drug cartels.

Shortly thereafter, some friendly news media folks called me, and expressing great alarm, stated that the media had received hundreds of "unredacted" documents. After changing my skivvies, I asked them to forward these copies to me posthaste, so that I might formulate a salvageable response during my travels in the near term. What the "suits" who sought revenge failed to grasp was: The cartel folks valued agents and cops highly, as they believed that ALL cops are on the "pad", and usually quite handy to them. Soon I learned that Colombia and Ecuador had received copies even before I had. They "own" a large number of highly placed [and assorted low-lifes] within most governments, including both state and federal.

Only in novels and the movies do you witness the scenario of the "insider" who has "tell-all" documents safely stashed somewhere, and those being a life insurance policy, nobody dares risk that person's untimely demise. More than once over the years [and recently with a family member] I have had to caution people about raising such an issue. Why? Because the enemies of those who might be "exposed" might just do the job in the hope that exposure does indeed occur !!

As for "geriatric limiting factors", some of my associates [now in their 60s and 70s] have been called out of retirement, and are with DHS, or over in Iraq/Afghanistan plying their skills. Moreover, whether elderly or young, terminations are always "outsourced".

One of my favorite movie scenes is where Max Von Sydow and Robert Redford are exiting the recently deceased DDP's home [last 10 minutes of "3 Days of the Condor"], and Max "the contract assassin" counsels Redford's character: "....It will happen like this...it wil be a nice day..." -- well, let me tell you how it happens since 1980.

The "Marielito" Cuban, a veteran of bayonetting and other brutalities suffered inside Fidel's gulags, and who works full time as a bodyguard/collector for the Cartel folks; is given a small down-payment and some expense money. [All of the necessary photos, addresses, bios, etc. are garnered via a simple credit check. etc.]

The target is just putting his key in the parked car door, the ethnic minority [of the crack-head pursuasion] grabs from behind. The shooter aims for "center mass" [solar plexis, so the lungs are frozen -- thus no screams]; and once down, two "taps" to the head. The "silent" weapon ? A 5 or 6 shot lightweight/featherweight 2-inch revolver with hammer shroud (so as not to foul while firing). Ordinarily revolvers are difficult to "suppress", but in this case it is inside a ziplock back [up to the wrist], and attached to the muzzle is an ordinary plastic squeeze bottle [softer the better, but some prefer plastic peroxide bottles].

The plastic expands upon each discharge, and is usually good for 7 to 8 shots,
totally silent. The ethnic minority is disposed of down the road a ways. The homicide dicks right it off as a robbery "gone bad".

The shooter makes a handsome profit selling the dope he has transported into the locale. Everybodys happy !!

Just to spite Kazakh Weberman [my extended family members who practice the Jewish Faith chuckled at the allegations of "anti-semitism" in my missives] I'll make it a point not to "run-outta-time !!"

More later,

GPH
_______________________________

James:

We have done quite a bit of private e-mail correspondence over many months, but
in this case I will correct once again a false assumption which is not your fault, but one which can be laid at the doorstep of "THE AUTHORITIES" who have good reason for obfuscation.

"Rudolfo Fasco" does not exist. This real person of interest is Rudolph "Rudy" FUSCO, who ran a store in the 1800 block of West Flagler Street, Miami. He was the cousin of Hyman "The Jeep King" Berg of Chicago, and was related by marriage to Yonatan Rubenstein, a/k/a "Jack Ruby. The sign on the front of Fusco's store read "Fishin' Fusco", and he approached us after the Bay of Pigs attempting to make yet another surplus U.S. military equipment & vehicles sale, just as he had scammed "Mineral Carriers, Ldt." on Stock Island, Key West (Their unofficial Logo was: "Minerals? We Carry Hot Lead & Cold Steel"). [This occured while Bob Reynolds' predecessor at JM/WAVE was attempting to insert his then miniscule "boy scout troupe" into the JM/ATE [BOP] Task Force.]

Zenith Technical was originally situated at the former NAF (LTA) Richmond [Blimp Base] PRIMARILY due to the fact that the acreage hosted the US Coast Guard "antenna farm" -- which would serve as cover for their original "PRIMARY" F.B.I.S. [Foreign Broadcast Intercept Bureau] tasking, which was intended to be a "monitoring only" facility ONLY, despite individual fantasies that it would serve as a transmit/receive/covert communications entity serving the "anti-Castro underground". Since simple "DFing [Direction Finder] techniques used by Cuba would have compromised Op/Sec, Mr. Prinz of Gibraltar Steamship, was given the "green light" to imitate the WWII style ["Verlain Letters" in the book & movie] broadcasting "in-the-blind" !! Thus arose Bill Turner's comical assessment [and book title] "The Fish is Red".

[This completely ignored Frank Wisner, Sr.'s bald and deadly compromising of both Comm/Sec & Op/Sec during his O.P.C. Ops; especially those with the N.T.S. entities in the Ukraine, and the "Partisans" in Albania [doing the early 1950s !!]

"Fishin' Fusco put us on the telephone with Hyman Berg [during early 1962] once again, and without getting into a similar call to Ruby that same week, the only item we ever received from "Rudy" was a WWII 1/2 ton "Weapons Carrier".
However, when just driving out to the Everglades in said vehicle raised our profile drastically [suddenly appearing that we weren't "rag-tag" waffle-eaters at Nellies' anymore, we returned same to the store.]

Ruby had involved the whole Chicago crowd in the 1959 attempt to sell surplus junk to Fidel's nascent Rebel Army & Air Force; along with Dominic Bartone of the Cleveland mob ["The Mayfield Road Gang"].

The above referenced photo centers on Fusco's minor contribution [1963] to the "Pirate Radio Transmitter Boat", which was mostly financed by Freddie Duran's wealthy mother.

NOTE: I would assure all, that NONE of the foregoing and above-mentioned had anything whatsoever to do with Dealey Plaza. Not that I would want to admonish the loud-mouth "Canuck" who joined this Forum last January, and along with his "music biz" has "studied?" the JFK matter for "40 years ??". Just what was around in 1965 for you to study "Mr. DJ" -- mayhaps Epstein's inconclusive "Inquest"; or maybe Lane's "law review article" which he styled as "Rush to Judgment" ?? I suspect that you shant admit "studying" the 26 volumes of cover-up, perjury, forgery, and blatant lies.

Not that I disagree with the motives for said cover-up, which RFK obligingly encouraged during 1964. Why, because then, as today, the threat of nuclear holocaust hung in the air like "Damocles' Sword". The greatest fear of the Washington elite was that Congress would [in accordance with the Constitution]
issue "Letters of Marque" instead of a "War Declaration", because Congress knew well that such a joint resolution would NOT be prosecuted by the Executive Branch, which retained fears of a launch of the 5/10 kiloton (fission) warhead tipped FROG "Cruise Missiles" retained at the Soviet naval base, Banes [Oriente Province/north coast], Cuba until late 1966.
[FROG was the NATO designation, and translated as "Free-Ranging-Over-Ground"]

Also, the publisher I signed a contract with during the mid-1990s was threatened with both the "Espionage" and "The Itelligence Identities Act", and quickly chickenshitted out. So much for the "contract signing cocktail party" we had celebrated prior thereto.

Methinks I will add just another ridiculous "closing motto" which has been adopted by some members. Mine is from circa 1953 "Mad Comics". Moreover, the one used erroneously and quoting E. Howard Hunt, needs to be clarified. Firstly, I never like Hunt in the old days, and even less today -- and principally because he defied Joannides in putting the "30th of November" group back on the JM/WAVE payroll, which was conditioned upon their severing ties with our instructor cadre, and pull their trainees back to "couch-potato" and suck up " Dept. of Ag. refugee rations". And Hunt coupled this with threats to take their entire families off of the relief roles should they not cease and desist.

However, the reality of "Eduardo's" many rants as to "one's right-to-the-truth"
[and avoiding comparisons with Jack Nicholson's USMC Colonel in the "A Few Good Men" ant-War movie] -- whether at Weberman's or Spotlight's depositions,
NO PRIVATE CITIZEN HAS A "RIGHT" TO THE "TRUTH" !! And this is especially so when the "leading" question's response might be inculpatory, and violative of 5th Amendment protections.

Amazing, Now I am hearing that I had a duty to "report" something to "The Authorities ??!!"; coupled now with a duty to "report" everything to some completely unknown scribbler on this Forum !! I don't need either family members or prospective publishing houses to once again nag the hell out of me for giving away the goods for free, and thus abrogating their financial interests !!

As for Nellie Hamilton's: that was set up by Sturgis prior to BOP, and we used that boarding house for exactly two weeks. When Sturgis failed to pay the rent, and told her to seek same from me, we were "Outta-there". Some, with jobs or family stipends, stayed on -- but after CIA Jounalist cover Dom Bonafede [Miami Herald] did "Hank" Chavez's bidding [JM/WAVE] to "burn" us, we rented several safehouses in the Negro district where "lilly-white" FBI agents and local cops couldn't do any unobserved surveillance of same.

As for Tony Summers [and Robyn Swan], I have done interviews with both. Unfortunately, a-la-Weberman, they can't get their stories straight, or refashion same to suit their's, or their editor's agendas and demands.

As for my buddy Bill Turner, The only thing he got correct in "10 Second Jailbreak" [later styled in the movie with Chas. Bronson as "Breakout"] was the fact that our "Canuck" Bill Dempsey did in fact return $40,000 to Joel Kaplan's sister. Surprise, Surprise !! [Gomering] It was Howard Davis who was approached by the "Folk Singer", and he set up the entire prison helicopter snatch in Mexico.

I recruited "Chopper Pilot??" Vic Stadter at Bartlett Field [Ontario, California] via my kindergarten pal, Art Dodd, who was then a Rotory-wing CFI ["FAA Certified Helicopter Instructor"]. However, and due to the Federal 5 year statute of limitations [and the "ongoing criminal enterprise/conspiracy statute sans limitations]; not too many of those involved in "derring-do" are stupid enough to expose themselves to government retribution just to satisfy a scribbler or a scrivener !!

Somebody had better check that brown neck stain, it definetly is NOT "ring-around-the-collar" !!

Cheers mate,

GPH (Gerry Hemming)

Thanks for the information, Gerry. Trying to lock down who was who after 40 odd years has proved frustrating over the years and I do appreciate the time you have taken with me, especially in private communication.

The DRE and Joannides are of obvious interest to me and someone like Isidro Borja especially. Given his involvement with Harber and company, it is a new direction to explore.

Cheers,

James

I always heard that, if you don't care about pretty, a common 20-oz. soda bottle will silence a .22, and at close enough range I'm sure it could be mighty effective...as one story says, it sure was in RFK's case. [And if Oswald had only used a Baggie, the paraffin test would've come out differently in the Tippitt Case...and the dog WOULD've caught the rabbit, IF...]

I'm beginning to understand that the why of the assassination and the why of the coverup are two separate--but, obviously, related--issues. And I've come to understand that the technical stuff and the political are important, but even together they come closer to drawing a portrait by Picasso than a Van Gogh. And I've come to understand a lot about how you and your comrades-in-arms operated in the early '60's. So keep on posting, because I'm beginning to understand more of it all the time. Sometimes, what's "cryptic' today is clear as a bell tomorrow, after I've had time to sleep on it [amazing what the subconscious mind can do, ain't it?].

I believe I know to which member of "les gendarmes" you refer, and I hope someday you two can do the Rodney King thing--"Can't we all just get along?"-- and someday end up toasting marshmallows around the campfire while singing "Kum-Bah-Yah"...but I ain't holdin' my breath on that ever taking place. [Humor intended here...I won't make you guess.]

I kinda look at this case the way I look at understanding biblical prophesy...if you're looking for all the answers in one place, you probably won't find 'em. But if you can combine the bits and pieces from here and there, and determine what applies and what doesn't, and what fits the jigsaw puzzle and what doesn't, someday we'll figure this thing out and finally know the truth. SOUNDS simple enough, but after 40+ years nobody seems to have made all the pieces fit yet. But maybe we're just not listening well enough...I dunno.

I doubt very much that Angel Murgado is the man who used the war name "Angel." As for de Torres, he might have known something but I sure don't think he was "Leopoldo."

Mr. Russell, delighted to hear from you.

I assume you know that in June of 2005 Professor Joan Mellen interviewed Angel Murgado and he confirmed he visited Silvia Odio in late September. He told her, however, that Oswald was at Odio's when he got there--but he knew who Oswald was.

Cannot see any reason why Murgado would lie about his involvement in the incident.

-----------------

What did I say about either buying a goddamn tape-recorder or learn shorthand !! Or do you feel constrained by your upcoming "review" of Joan's book ?? Angelo NEVER came forth, and it was an associate who called me; advising that I make a quick call to Miami after I had "outed" his name on the forum, and it was picked up by a web search.

It took me two days in Miami just to get him to even consider speaking with Joan, and has since stated to Dave Talbot, that he will make no further statements on ANY subject whatsoever.

Dick, I am surprised that you would fall into the same BS trap as this Canuck DJ.; i.e., citing to the "cover-up" WC documents on Sylvia ?? Sylvia was furious upon reading this faggot Hoover's crap many years later. Not only did she deny EVER stating that one of the "visitors" was Mexican "looking/sounding", she centered upon the singular factual items contained therein: The references to J.U.R.E., and Rogelio Cisneros, war name "Eugenio". [Cisneros had been Fidel's #2 underground fighter, under his president of the CTC Electrical Workers Union -- Amaury Fraginals, who remained loyal to Fidel even after Rogelio's defection.]

She was later intimidated with threats of prosecution under Title 18 US Code Section 1001, to wit: "Making false statements to a federal agent."
[Martha Stewart can expertly discourse on section 1001. This is a post Civil War/Reconstruction statute which quickly ended certain citizen's false claims, in seeking reparations from the government (US Marshals). Said law obviated the previous requirement of a "sworn" statement. Then and now, a false UNSWORN statement to a federal officer carries a heavier penalty than does perjury !!]

Most laypersons can't grasp that there is a second paragraph to the perjury statute, which is incorporated in the stare decisis of section 1001. That is:
"...Any person making a false declaration under oath is guilty of perjury."
"...Perjury is defined as making two or more statements which contradict; both statements may be false, or both statements may be TRUE; the fact that they contradict is Perjury."

Sylvia, Marina, et al. weren't the only ones burdened with this statutory threat, and worse; there is no statute of limitations if you TODAY, once again, are tricked into re-affirming, modifying, or changing previous statements.

I will not go further until Joan's book is firmly lodged in the libraries; and this despite rumors of her having made disparaging remarks about me !! As she said, if you want "insider scoop"; pony up the trip expenses for June 2005.

Hoover's gay-blades deliberately inserted the "Mexican" bit so as to inculpate Larry Howard. From what I hear, Joan claims that Larry was also in Dealey Plaza; man that place is getting crowded.

'Nuff said,

GPH
__________________________

Gerry Hemming wrote:

What did I say about either buying a goddamn tape-recorder or learn shorthand !! Or do you feel constrained by your upcoming "review" of Joan's book ?? Angelo NEVER came forth, and it was an associate who called me; advising that I make a quick call to Miami after I had "outed" his name on the forum, and it was picked up by a web search.

Tim, it sounds like you're pissing him off. Now, maybe in law school you learned that accuracy didn't matter, as long as you sold your argument; but when I was in journalism school, accuracy mattered. As Operation Mockingbird shows, maybe it didn't matter to some journalists, but apparently there was some sort of code of ethics among professors of journalism, if not among the practitioners.

And right next to accuracy was the philosophy of not pissing off your sources, if for no other reason than to be able to return to them if necessary. One certainly doesn't piss in their Wheaties, and then ask them, "How's breakfast?"

What I consider interesting from Gerry's post is that the revelation of who Odio's visitors were was a direct result of his participation in this Forum. Apparently he made a comment about one of the people involved in the activities in the sixties and that person then, for reasons not made perfectly clear, revealed who Angel was.

And it was Gerry who persuaded Angelo to talk to Professor Mellen.

Can anyone come up with a theory why Angel Murgado (Kennedy) would lie about such a thing? I cannot.

I assume you are talking about the deaths of Bill Hunter and Jim Koethe. On 24th November, 1963, Bill Hunter of the Long Beach Press Telegram and Jim Koethe of the Dallas Times Herald interviewed George Senator. Also there was the attorney Tom Howard. Earlier that day Senator and Howard had both visited Jack Ruby in jail. That evening Senator arranged for Koethe, Hunter and Howard to search Ruby's apartment.

It is not known what the journalists found but on 23rd April 1964, Hunter was shot dead by Creighton Wiggins, a policeman in the pressroom of a Long Beach police station. Wiggins initially claimed that his gun fired when he dropped it and tried to pick it up. In court this was discovered that this was impossible and it was decided that Hunter had been murdered. Wiggins finally admitted he was playing a game of quick draw with his fellow officer. The other officer, Errol F. Greenleaf, testified he had his back turned when the shooting took place. In January 1965, both were convicted and sentenced to three years probation.

Jim Koethe decided to write a book about the assassination of Kennedy. However, he died on 21st September, 1964. It seems that a man broke into his Dallas apartment and killed him by a karate chop to the throat. Tom Howard died of a heart-attack, aged 48, in March, 1965.

How does Loran Hall fit into this? Did you have any contact with George Senator.

By the way, have you considered having your memoirs published in the UK? Maybe I could help you with this.

Here is one possible explanation for Murgado’s actions. It was discovered that Joan Mellen was about to publish a book on Jim Garrison that was going to point towards the people responsible for the assassination of JFK. The strategy was therefore to feed Joan with a new story that if it was included would take the headlines. Soon after the book is published, Murgado will come forward and admit he was lying. Joan Mellen will be discredited and the rest of the book will not be taken seriously.

Anyway, Murgado deserves his own thread. Please post any information you have on Murgado here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5136

John, that Joan was possibly "fed a bogus story" because she was on track to revealing the truth, is in my mind something that would be the most nightmarish scenario for those who are still seeking the truth after all these years. Just think of the media treatment "Joan Mellen's book discredited the day it hit's the shelves" I, myself and, I suspect many others would be willing to overlook a mistake in judgement if the book is as credible as I believe it will be; but the mainstream media, (as you seem to imply) would not, I suspect be quite so forgiving.

Forgive my ignorance, John, but if Murgado states that he lied to Mellen, how in the world does that discredit Mellen? Was she supposed to require him to undergo a polygraph before she recited his story (which is not incredible on its face)?

Your scenario, in my opinion, makes no logical sense for the reason stated above.

An important part of Operation Mockingbird/Nightingale is to portray conspiracy theorist as both gullible and sloppy researchers. It is argued that these people are not “proper” historians who have a political agenda (something that you have been quick to say about researchers you disagree with). It is therefore important that researchers treat witnesses like Angelo Murgado and Gerry Hemming with great caution. Don Bohning recently attacked Bill Turner for relying too much on the testimony of people like Gerry. This was unfair as Bill has always made it clear that he has found Gerry as a unreliable witness. In fact, I would argue that three of the best recent books on the JFK assassination: Someone Would Have Talked (Larry Hancock), Breach of Trust (Gerald D. McKnight) and Rearview Mirror (Bill Turner) have not fallen into this trap and have to relied on unreliable testimony.

Going by the article that appeared in the Key West Citizen, Joan Mellen will assume the testimony of Murgado is true. If that is the case, she will be roundly attacked by the critics for the reasons that Robert Charles-Dunne and Pat Speer have clearly pointed out in this thread. She will be attacked for not being a “real” historian (an historian would not accept Murgado’s testimony as evidence). This will distract from other points she might include in her book as her credibility will be severely damaged.

I went too far when I said that Murgado might admit he lied to Joan Mellen. In fact, he does not need to do that in order to damage her credibility. Although, his apparent decision to refuse to answer questions on the subject will also add to the suspicion that he has been lying.

You have asked what might Murgado’s motivation be to lie about his involvement in this case. Maybe someone who has good reason to undermine the credibility of JFK researchers is paying him to do it? Maybe he just wants to be written about in the national press. You only have to look at modern television to see that a large percentage of the population want their five minutes of fame. To my mind Murgado is just another Judyth Baker and James Files.

John, why should Professor Mellen have rejected Murgado's statements?

1) Do you have any evidence Murgado has given false evidence before?

2) Do you have any evidence his demeanor indicated untruthfulness?

3) Do you have any reason to assert that Murgado's reputation in the community is less than exemplary?

4) Do you contend his story (not used in a pejorative sense) that he was
the Angel who visited Odio is on its face incredible?

5) Are there any logical reasons why his story should have been rejected?

6) Do you agree that from the photo of Murgado taken apparently in the early nineties he could fit the description Odio gave of the Angel or Angelo who visited her?


Are you willing to risk your reputation on your assumption that after Professor Mellen's book is published Murgado is going to come forward and claim he lied about it? And even if he should do so, how could Professor Mellen be tarred as a "sloppy researcher" for writing about what he told her (at least absent any proof of the factors cited above)? This is why your scenario is nonsensical; I see no reason why Professor Mellen should have rejected his story out-of-hand. If he claims he lied to her that reflects only on his credibilty and not on her abilities as a serious researcher.


The number by which the reasons to believe Murgado visited Odio exceed the number of reasons to believe Buckley was a conspirator are approximately equal to the number of sand particles on all of the beaches in Florida.

While I think it's beyond wise to look for the angle in all this, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Murgado is lying.

My personal gut feeling is that he is not - when it comes to talking about the fact he was the "Angel" at Odio's door.

Admitting more than that puts him into potential serious legal jeopardy regarding the death of a U.S. President, so I don't blame him for trying to say things like "Oz was there already. We didn't drive him to Texas." Or whatever the story is.

I'd be more skeptical of Murgado if he was more of a sketchy personality. But he isn't. He's a real Cuban freedom-fighter, and remember, the guy changed his name to Kennedy for a reason.

Hemming is an interesting dude. I think the fact that he is completely not trusted as a source by anyone has allowed him to talk about "Benny" and not get his head blown off. It's quite obvious that he knows he was close to what happened, yet was in the dark. He can release little nuggets of truth he's discovered, while blowing BS up everyone's ass so as to appear flaky. He can't become too credible, because the moment he does, he's just signed his own death warrant. But he's been researching this thing forever just like everyone else here.
I think Hemming is as American as a person can get: Commie fighter, and into solving the murder of a Chief Executive that was killed because he was supposedly secretly Communist. How conflicting, huh? But those are the acts of faith that are only worn by true patriotic types.

cheers,
Matt

Matt, I think you have a very perceptive perspective of Mr. Hemming.

Certainly one should not accept everything he says as "Gospel" (sorry for the religious reference, atheist friends). Much of what he reports is not from his first hand knowledge and so is only as credible as is its source. I assume when Mr. Hemming reports something he has reason to believe what his source is telling him.

I find Gerry to be: 1) extremely intelligent; 2) extremely gracious and pleasant; and 3) with a remarkable memory for events that occured decades ago. And he certainly is patriotic.


John wrote:

To my mind Murgado is just another Judyth Baker and James Files.

Murgado never claimed to be Oswald's lover; nor is he a convicted murderer like Files.

Seriously, I see no reason why Murgado would want to muddy his own reputation by admitting that he
had associated with Lee Harvey Oswald. Files is a different case since his reputation can hardly get any worse.

The three best sources on the Silvia Odio story are Gaeton Fonzi, The Last Investigation (pages 108-116 and 250-259), Dick Russell, The Man Who Knew Too Much (308-311) and Tony Summers, The Kennedy Conspiracy (296-301 and 446-447). All three of these authors interviewed her and came to the conclusion she was telling the truth. G. Robert Blakey also points out that the House Select Committee on Assassinations also came to the conclusion that she was telling the truth (The Plot to Kill the President, pages 162-165).

I agree that Silvia Odio is telling the truth. This is why:

(1) Her story is corroborated by her sister, Annie Odio, who was in the apartment when they had the visit from Leopoldo, Angel and Leon Oswald.

(2) The day after the visit Silvia received a phone call from Leopoldo. He told her that Leon was a former Marine and that he was an expert marksman. He added that Leon had said “we Cubans, we did not have the guts because we should have assassinated Kennedy after the Bay of Pigs”.

(3) Silvia told the story of Leopoldo, Angel and Leon to her father Amador in a letter a few days after the meeting took place. The letter did not survive but his reply has. In it Amador confirms that she has good reason to be worried by these three men who are not known to him.

(4) Silvia told her story to her psychiatrist, Dr. Burton Einspruch before the assassination took place.

(5) It is also believed Silvia told her story to Father McChann, a Catholic priest in Dallas. Ssee William Kelly’s post on this here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5347

(6) Silvia and Annie both identified Lee Harvey Oswald as Leon when his photograph appeared on the television following the assassination of JFK. However, they did not go to the police with this information. Silvia’s sister, Sarita, told her friend Lucille Connell about these events. She in turn told a friend who passed this information onto the FBI.

In her article for the Key West Citizen (2nd September, 2005) Joan Mellen claims that she is the first person in print to name Bernardo De Torres as Leopoldo. However, as long-term members will know, he was named on this Forum sometime ago. This information also appears on my webpage on Torres. Maybe that is why it was removed from the Goggle database for so long (it is now 1st out of 1,430,000 pages).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKtorres.htm

Of course, I also name Edwin Collins and not Angel Murgado as Angelo.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKcollinsE.htm

My page on Silvia Odio is also ranked first out of 269,000 pages. I have placed a photograph of Bernardo De Torres and Edwin Collins taken in 1963. If she surfs the net she will no doubt come across this page and picture. Maybe she could contacts me and identify Leopoldo and Angel as Torres and Collins.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKodioS.htm

First off, one must recognize that there are several different "puzzles" mixed into the same box.

After separation of the puzzles, then one may stand a chance of placing each piece into it's proper place.

Tom

----------------------------

John:

Let me get the script straight. I ( or WE) are puppets on a string attmepting to protect Beranrdo de Torres, despite having implicated him in the murders of Letelier, Torriente, et al. ??!!

Now that Bill Seymour is back on the hook, and solely based on dubious amateur attempts at "imagery" [or stegano-imagery] we now revert to Weberman's 1970s limp attempt at matching the tramps with the [by then] "newly infamous Watergate bunglers" !! This was soon followed by a herd of sheep which raised up Harrelson, Holt, Alfred E. Neumann, Elvis, Judge Crater, et al. as solid candidates. [however, they left out the "Duke, Duke, of Earl" - a/k/a Jacko d' Ripper, you know, the General from Dr. Strangelove ??!!]

O.K.: now let me see, WE are supposed to slink off into the darkness, having failed to "burn" RFK, LHO. J.U.R.E., Garrison, and assorted others -- using the nefarious device of this "alleged" Murgado's, bold and almost daily exhortations at Hyde park over the last 40+ years !!

Or are WE being BAITED a-la Weberman into angry responses, and thereby feeding either the frenzy of "bookies" -- who have a constitutional right to know "EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYBODY" ??!!; or;
are is it the exact opposite, to wit: some folks [or entities] want to shut us up -- so as to continue with these years of wasted efforts and inane prattling ??!!

And should we challenge Mellen's "Girlish-Garrison-Groupie" love-diary, then we have most surely have "set-her-up-for-a-fall"!!

And this even despite the fact she hates RFK for "NOT joining with Garrison in his "investigation??" the JFK murder ??!!

And "other authors" who WERE about to use Murgado's INTEL -- these must not be the ones who were repeatedly told to "bugger off, mate" in a polite manner no less.

Oh, I forget, Russo came to grief because he also was led "down-the-primrose-path" by this "over-zealously vocal "Angelo" ??!! OOOOPS !! I forgot, this is the same Angel/Angelo who "FAILED" to "come-forth" to -- let me think now -- Sissy Hoover ?; NOT -- Garrison?; NOT -- WC, HSCA, PIKE, Church, Tower, Rockefeller, Kerry, the Swiftboatsmen, COPA, Lancer, SFRG, Star Chamber, and/or The Mormon Tabernacle Choir ??!!

Lest we forget, you are now in telepathic communications with Sylvia, Annie, and Sarah ("Sarita"); and upon discerning some Internet "Nat'l Command Authority" [discreet message]; they all will rush to the nearest Western Union, telegraph, telephone, keyboard, or smoke & drums signal outfit -- and transmt: "reporting in for duty". Thereby providing justification as to their "testimony", "interviews by thwarted investigators, scribblers, scriveners, et al. !! Thus, we are assured that a totally compartmented young lady, along with her threatened with deportation to Venezuela family, will continue to support a WC instigated [Specter, Belin, Dulles, et al.] "cover-story" !! AND/OR keep the Kennedy Klan from any further erosion of the "Camelot Myth" !! Amazing that NOT ONE author, investigator, scribbler speaks, reads, nor writes in the Spanish language to this day

Oh, by the way [or BTW for the PC literates]: J.U.R.E., you know, Spanish for "JUNTA" (Coalition) had representatives from:

Alpha-66, which was [and still is today] comprised of former anti-Batista - viz: "26th of July" Rebel Army veterans who espoused "Fidelismo-sin-Fidel", and included Socialists such as Menoyo, Nazario Sargent, Fleites, et al. !! BTW: Menoyo has moved his "Cambio Cubano" operation back to offices in Havana.

D.R.E., another "Fidelismo-sin-Fidel" Socialist student group created by Rolando Cubela out of the F.E.U./ 13th of March organization.

30th of November, then headed by former Communist Carlos Rodriguez Quesada.

M.I.R.R., headed by former Communist anti-Batista leader Orlando Bosch.

The partially defunct AAA organization, headed by former Communist Aureliano Sanchez Arango.

Among those excluded from J.U.R.E. were:

Former Communist labor leader: Eusebio Mujal [and his own "JUNTA"], and who had thrived in Cuba under former Communist fellow traveler's Batista, Grau, Prio, Diaz Balart (Fidel married their sister Mirtia), et al. !!

Former Communist gang leader and Batista Senator, Rolando Masferrer. (Fidel had been a member of his Nazi/Commie gang during the late 1940s, that is until he got shortchanged financially after the Cayo Confites "Expedition?? FIASCO" !!

The belated decision by Krulak, Sterling Cottrell, Roger Hillsman, et al. to push for TOTAL support of the ENTIRE left-wing [and newly formed J.U.R.E.] was made after Miami groups raised a furor about a "leaked" list of fresh anti-Castro leadership personalities. The biggest problem was: Nobody inside or outside of Cuba had ever heard of the names before. Prouty sided with Lansdale, Hurwitch, Goodwin, Schlesinger, et al. against this move to the "Left" -- McCone, Rocca, Halpern, et al. sided against the Helms clique -- and advised RFK/JFK to heavily INCREASE the funding of J.U.R.E. !!

Meanwhile, final arrangements were being made to create and guide "2nd Naval Guerrilla" [hosted by Somoza & "Pepe" Figueres]. Oh, by the way --WE opposed Artime's "heating-up-the-south-coast-of-Cuba strongly. But they went on to sink patrol boats [Isle of Pines/Youth, batibanao, Cayo Largo]; blow railway lines & bridges, burn sugar mills and fuel storage facilities, etc.!!
Twice they used jet fighter-bombers in attacks near Santa Cruz del Sur [but the world laughed, exiles with jets -- come on bearded one!!] (The jets were "borrowed" from the "Confederate Air Force" collection at Harlingen, Texas, after refurbishing at M.A.S.D.I.C., Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Tuscon, Arizona.
The "after-action reports" -- put together by Cram, and later by Jack Pfeiffer; showed that during 1963 thru 1966, "2nd Naval G." did about 60% of the damage done by the French "Maquis"/F.F.I. during WWII !! Hardly a sham, or designed to fail operation.
However, the more they did, the more we bitched to Goldwater, Thurmond, Fascell, Smathers, et al. !! Why, because it closed off infiltratration/exfiltration sites needed by Intel agents, especially those seeking to confirm or deny the continued presence of nukes on the island. Were these impediments by design ? By the White House [JFK/LBJ] ??!!

Clue me in John, are WE to "fess-up" ?? "Make a clean titty of it" ?? Leave the herd of sheep to their fantasyland [and oftentimes financially rewarding] dreams of glory and truth ?? mayhaps go sniveling to Wim, so that he might commercialize some more phony "Tooshy/Files/Holt/Evis/Neverland" fables ??

I am so very sorry that the "pubic" taxpayers invested million$ into pre-scripted "fairy tales" about "faireys" and "Ferries" -- and that gullible innocents [some seeking 15 nano-seconds of fame] have purchased tons of
"feeble-fables" which never have even come close to the actualities of events.

In less than two weeks, the earnest crusaders for truth will once again gather together, sing "Kum-Bayah", and espouse even more outrageous extensions of the original WC cover-up. Of course, during recess, the "boss-crusaders" will once again set up their "flea-markets" -- and hawk their wares !!

Remember, "...Backward..and to the left....Backward...and to the left...Backwar...!!" Jerry Seinfeld [the TV comedian] did a spoof of the "never-happened-during-the-Shaw-trial-Kostner-shtick"; and wherein Kramer Newman, et al. have been struck by a ball. He then lines them up and while poking them with a stick -- shows his "single-magic-ball-theory" wherein the missile changes flightpaths contrary to the laws of physics !! Shamefully, I howled so loud the neighbors came to my door.

Truly now John, baiting is out of order, WE might elucidate more, or we might just stand back and sadly observe -- some guidance PLEASE !!

Cheerio,

GPH
_______________________________________

Gerry,

How much truth is in this article by Martino?

Is he referring to 2nd Naval G?

Is there anything to the claim that Castro was to be booted?


Cuba and the Kennedy Assassination – by John Martino (Human Events. Jan, 1964)

During the three years that I was incarcerated in Cuban prisons, former intimates told me of the Red dictator’s irrational hatred of President Kennedy. One Red publication, I remember, displayed a fake photograph showing the President and the First Lady careening drunk through the streets of Mexico City during their official visit in 1962. Another-the magazine Mella, featured a cartoon in which John F. Kennedy was depicted as a dope pusher injecting narcotics into the arm of a child.

This almost insane hatred was not due to any belief that President Kennedy was strongly anti-communist. It was partly jealously [sic] on Castro’s part of the way that JFK’s personality had captured the imagination of the Cuban people. For almost six month’s, it has been assumed in Cuban circles in Miami and in Havana that the Kennedy Administration planned to eliminate Fidel Castro, his brother Raul; Che Guevara and various others through a putsch.

Cuban exiles here understand that plans for this operation were cleared with a Soviet representative in Europe shortly after the missile crisis of last October (1962). The old-line communists inside the Castro regime were to take part in the operation together with Castro henchmen that were paid to switch sides. The plan involved a more or less token invasion from Central America to be synced with the coup. A left-wing coalition government was to be set up, including leaders of the Cuban Communist party. The most talked about candidate to head this “democratic” regime was Huber Matos, a former Castro commander, who is at the present the most privileged prisoner on the Isle of Pines. Matos enjoys a private room and a television set. He is allowed to strut around in his uniform as one of Castro’s commandants while decent and patriotic Cubans in the same prison suffer unspeakable tortures.

The plan allegedly involved complete withdrawal of Soviet troops, release of all political prisoners, U.S. occupation of Cuba and a new government of the Tito or Ben Bella type. It was to be staged for February 1964. According to reports from usually reliable exile sources, Khrushchev had agreed to the plan because of the importance to the Soviet Union of re-electing the Democratic Administration. The plan provided that Castro and his fellow experts in murder and genocide were to be given safe conduct out of Cuba. From the Soviet standpoint, all that was involved was a slight tactical retreat in Cuba to be offset by advances on other Latin American fronts, such as Brazil and Chile. From Castro’s standpoint, however, it meant the end of his career as a world figure and refused to go along with it.

Assassination of President Kennedy was a bold way of checkmating the plan. At a reception in the Brazilian Embassy in Havana in early September, Castro told newsmen that CIA agents had been sent to the island to kill him and Raul. If Kennedy was behind this, he added, the American President should realize that he was not the only politician that could engineer the assassinations of chiefs of state. This story was published in the Miami News on November 24. Meanwhile Emilio Nunez Portuondo, the distinguished former Cuban ambassador to the United Nations and one-time president of its Security Council, informed his friend and associate in Mexico, Dr. Jose Antonio Cabarga, of Castro’s threat. El Universal, one of Mexico’s leading newspapers, published the story as a front page exclusive. Immediately thereafter, the Mexican police arrested Cargaga for delivering the report to El Universal and beat him up so badly that he is now hospitalized.

This is typical of the conduct of the Mexican police President Adolfo Lopez Mateos, whose pro-communist background and associations are myriad. For example, when Tito visited Mexico a few months ago, newspaper publishers were ordered to print only laudatory articles on the Yugoslav dictator. To prove to the world that Mexico has a free press, however, two or three critical articles were approved and ordered published. Immediately before the Tito visit, a few anti-communists students attempted to destroy posters praising the Balkan butcher. They were caught by the police, held incommunicado for a few days and subjected to tortures which leave no permanent scars. For example, one was hanged by the feet and repeatedly dropped on his head, but so lightly that his skull was not broken.

The Cubans in the South Florida area have had dealings with Oswald in the past and they are not willing to join the press in dismissing him as a fanatic, a psychopath or a pathetic, maladjusted youth. When he was in Miami, Oswald attempted to join an organization of Americans engaged in training Cubans in guerrilla warfare, headed by Jerry Patrick. As a former Marine, Oswald would have been useful, but he failed to pass a security check and was turned down. Oswald made similar approaches to the Cuban Revolutionary Student Directorate (DRE) and to JURE, another organization of Cuban freedom fighters, but was rejected.

Many Americans will never have used a psychologically unstable person of this sort and that they would have shunned Oswald because of his record of long and notorious Red associations. This is true as far as Soviet-oriented Reds are concerned. However, the Kremlin Communists were certainly innocent of complicity in the assassination for the simple reason that Khrushchev had no reason to desire Kennedy’s death. Fidel Castro probably had very few potential assassins in this country who were loyal to him rather than to Moscow. Those Reds who follow Castro tend t be more zealous and destructive elements in the movement, people consumed by hatred, not only of Western civilization, but of mankind in general.

If Castro needed an assassin, he would have had to search among the Maoists, the Stalinists and the neo-Trotskyites-in another words, among people as disturbed, warped, hate-saturated and wicked as Oswald. The fact that the crime was committed in Dallas, a center of American conservative and nationalist movements, was probably not accidental. Had Oswald managed to escape to Cuba, the liberal press and the Establishment could have placed the entire blame for the murder of the President, not on America’s Communist enemies, but on those who love this country and wish to preserve its institutions and its heritage.

------------------------------

Dave:

Even into the 1970s, Martino was considered to be, and acted like, a compartmented operator, and earned the sobriquet of being a "Mushroom".

Tom Purvis probably thought that most members wouldn't be interested in Googling "Son Tay Raid". On a couple of the S. T. Raider's websites you can find copies of their unofficial shoulder patch. One of the first stitched out by Thai seamstresses depicts a mushroom coupled with the letters "K.I.T.D.A.F.O.H.S.", which translates as: "Kept In The Dark And Fed Only Horse Shit". A later patch shortened the number of letters.

To gain more independence from Trafficante, he opted to continue spewing the J.B.S. line about LHO and Fidel. This made Pawley even more financially generous, and caused Santo to feel that his cover as a D.G.I. agent would be more secure from suspicious eyes.

The only intelligence agency that ever had assets inside the Kremlin was the Mossad. From time-to-time they loaned some of these assets [temporarily] to the MI-6 and CIA, in that order. Mossad grew more cautious, reluctant and bitter after the CIA blew Colonel Oleg Penkovskiy's cover !!

However, upon receipt of solid Intel that the G.R.U. was about to do a coup against Fidel during 1964, and that it would be coupled with the deposing of Khruschov -- the nascent D.I.A. and its newly created S.O.D.,
convinced the JFK folks that it was time to launch the embryonic Special Affairs Teams.

"2nd Naval Geurrilla" was just one of many of the LRRP [pronounced "Lurp"] entities organized and waiting in the wings for 1964. Krulak, as S.A.C.S.A. was among the top echelon planners of the 1964 "counter-coup" planned for Cuba. Others included the fathers of the SF ["Green Berets"]: Col. Wendel L. Fertig, who ran WWII guerrillas on Mindannao, Philippines [who sent Wm. Gale Potter packing in disgrace (via submarine) to MacArthur's HQ in Australia]; Col. Donald Blackburn, leader of "Blackburn's Headhunter's", WWII guerrilla leader, U.S. Guerrilla Forces, North Luzon; Gen. Robt. Frederick, WWII creator and leader of "The Devil's Brigade" -- the Joint U.S./Canada 1st Special Service Force; Col. Aaron Bank, for years considered to be the "Father" of the Green Berets; a still young "Sammy" Vaughn Wilson, who was Gen. Frank Merrill's "point-of-the-spear" recon platoon commander of "Merrill's Marauders", et al. !!

Most of the top echelon folks of the 1964 PB/----- project removed themselves from "E-Ring" at the Pentagon, "Foggy Bottom", Langley, Arlington Hall, 8th & "Eye, etc. to a secure location near Nag's head; especially for briefings.

Bill Pawley's old credentials with the P.F.I.A.B. ["President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board"] brought him into the loop, and caused him to soften his bitterness over the "Bayo" Op betrayal.

Santo encouraged Martino to seek out people on the periphery of the 1964 scheme, but in most cases Martino failed, and Santo's bona fides with "Barba Roja" Pineiro deteriorated. Later, Santo was doubled and used to oust the Corsican cartel from the Khun Sah "Golden Triangle" facilities -- turning them over to the Italian Mafia, but under the strict control of O.D.E.S.S.A. !!

Sidebar: Martino suggested that me and my partner meet with a businessman in Central America. However, while we were enroute, the President's half-brother called and warned that we were to be murdered shortly after arrival. Martino quickly called the gentleman, told him that I had lead the Dealey Plaza teams, and that should he persist, the retaliatory strikes against him and his family would be swift and brutal. Just minutes prior to our arrival, he had gotten off of the telephone with "El Presidente", who also warned him against any fortuitous actions.

Some years later, this businessman's Washington lawyer contacted the HSCA and informed them that his client was prepared to testify under oath that I had explained [in great detail] the minutea of the DP operation. Jack Anderson later wrote a column complaining about the U.S. Government's abuse of this man.
This gentleman's case officer in D.C. was the same Carl ..... who had busted the "Watergate Bunglers"; and was a Bobby Inman asset -- along with Bob Woodward, and the young Navy "Admiral's Yeoman" !!

A while before he died, Martino somehow received insights and clarifications of how he had been "used-for-years"; ergo a "Mushroom" !! He, like Dom Bartone [at the same time] begged us to take over the "business" and exact revenge agaaints the "Perps' !! Big problem was: we hadn't the first clue as to who the "perps" were, despite communal thinking that we were somehow elevated to the top of the food chain.

Later,

GPH
_______________
NOTE: Gen. Samuel Vaughn Wilson, later a CIA Soviet Specialist, served as a consultant on the Jeff Chandler movie version of Ogburn's book -- "Merrill's Marauders". He took a sabatical from CIA and went to the Philippines for the filming of the movie. he was played by Jeff Hunter, and true to history -- played as the quasi-adopted son of Gen. Merrill. His young blond son was given an extensive speaking role in the movie. There were only 12 hollywood actors on location, the Marauders were played by Green Berets from the 1st Special Forces Group, Okinawa. The very talented Filipino niseai & Issei played the Jap soldiers.

A simultaneous premier of the movie was held at the Marauders "Regimental Surgeon's" residence "Nha Pumgah", Greenbelt , MD. -- but Chandler was unable to join his fellow actors there at Dr. Lew "Abe" Kolodny's home.

Gen. S. V. Wilson retired after serving as the Director, Defense Intelligence Agency. He now runs a small College in Virginia.

Members of the Marauders Association help fund Comandos L, "our" Bayo Operation, and others. Moreover, they asked us to carry their "color" into combat in Cuba. They have sinced asked us to wear their shoulder patch on our right sleeves [combat patch].

After years of lobbying, we finally convinced the Pentagon and Congress that the Army urgently needed a full Ranger Regiment. The Marauders Battle Flag [Colors] were passed to the 75th Infantry Regiment, and finally, at Fort Benning, GA [1974] the 1st Batallion was mobilized. After a compromise, the Regimental Crest was a copy of the Marauders Patch; while their shoulder patch is the "Scroll" from "Darby's Rangers".
-30-
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Gerry,

Fascinating stuff. I've often felt like a "mushroom" myself. (Ya get left in the dark and shit on.)

On a side note, just a military history question, I wonder if you ever heard of a Cpt. E.A. Kearns (I think it was Edward). Kearns was mostly in Burma during WWII. I don't think he was with Merrill. After WWII, Kearns went on to head the MP/CID school at the Carlisle Barracks until the advent of the Korean War.

Dave

The Odio Incident

From the House Select Committee on Assassinations Hearings Vol. X, pp. 18-35


(62) In connection with the question of anti-Castro Cuban involvement in the Kennedy assassination, the committee examined one incident which, over the years, particularly intrigued critics of the Warren Commission's investigation. It became known as the "Odio incident" and involved a young Cuban exile, Silvia Odio. Here, in part, is how the Warren Commission detailed the incident and its conclusions in its final report:

(63) The Commission investigated (Mrs. Odio's) statements in connection with its consideration of the testimony of several witnesses suggesting that Oswald may have been seen in the company of unidentified persons of Cuban or Mexican background. Mrs. Odio was born in Havana in 1937 and remained in Cuba until 1960;it appears that both of her parents are political prisoners of the Castro regime. Mrs. Odio is a member of the Cuban Revolutionary Junta (JURE) an anti-Castro organization. She testified that late in September 1963, three men came to her apartment in Dallas and asked her to help them prepare a letter soliciting funds for JURE activities. She claimed that the men, who exhibited personal familiarity with her imprisoned father, asked her if she were "working in the underground," and she replied that she was not. She testified that two of the men appeared to be Cubans, although they also had some characteristics that she associated with Mexicans. Those two men did not state their full names, but identified themselves only by their fictitious underground "war names." Mrs. Odio remembered the name of one of the Cubans as "Leopoldo." The third man, an American, allegedly was introduced to Mrs. Odio as "Leon Oswald," and she was told that he was very much interested in the Cuban cause. Mrs. Odio said that the men told her that they had just come from New Orleans and that they were then about to leave on a trip. Mrs. Odio testified that next day Leopoldo called her on the telephone and told her that it was his ideas to introduce the American into the underground "because he is great, he is kind of nuts." Leopoldo also said that the American had been in the Marine Corps and was an excellent shot, and that the American said the Cubans "don't have any guts * * * because President Kennedy should have been assassinated after the Bay of Pigs, and some Cubans should have done that, because he was the one that was holding the freedom of Cuba actually."

(64) Although Mrs. Odio suggested doubts that the men were in fact members of JURE, she was certain that the American who was introduced to her as Leon Oswald was Lee Harvey Oswald. Her sister, who was in the apartment at the time of the visit by the three men, and who stated that that she saw them briefly in the hallway when answering the door, also believed that the American was Lee Harvey Oswald. By referring to the date on which she moved from her former apartment, October 1, 1963, Mrs. Odio fixed the date of the alleged visit on the Thursday or Friday immediately preceding that date, i.e., September 26 or 27. She was positive that the visit occurred prior to October 1.

(65) During the course of its investigation, however, the Commission concluded that Oswald could not have been in Dallas on the evening of either September 26 or 27, 1963. It also developed considerable evidence that he was not in Dallas at any time between the Beginning of September and October 3, 1963. * * *

(66) In spite of the fact that it appeared almost certain that Oswald could not have been in Dallas at the time Mrs. Odio thought he was, the Commission requested the FBI to conduct further investigation to determine the validity of Mrs. Odio's testimony. The Commission considered the problems raised by that testimony as important in view of the possibility it raised that Oswald may have had companions on his trip to Mexico. The Commission specifically requested the FBI to attempt to locate and identify the two men who Mrs. Odio stated were with the man she thought was Oswald. * * *

(67) On September 16, 1964, the FBI located Loran Eugene Hall in Johnsandale, Calif. Hall has been identified as a participant in numerous anti-Castro activities. He told the FBI that in September of 1963 he was in Dallas, soliciting aid in connection with anti-Castro activities. He said he had visited Mrs. Odio. He was accompanied by Lawrence Howard, a Mexican-American from East Los Angeles and one William Seymour from Arizona. He stated that Seymour is similar in appearance to Lee Harvey Oswald; he speaks only a few words of Spanish, as Mrs. Odio had testified one of the men who visited her did. While the FBI had not yet completed its investigation into this matter at the time the report went to press, the Commission has concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald was not at Mrs. Odio's apartment in September of 1963. (1)

(68) The evidence did not support the definitive character of the Warren Commission's conclusions. The Commission had based its conclusion on two points: the "considerable" evidence that Oswald could not have been in Dallas on the evening Mrs. Odio alleged she saw him; (2) the FBI's report of Loran Eugene Hall's speculation that Odio misidentified his companion, William Seymour, as Lee Harvey Oswald. (3) Although the Warren Commission Report stated that Odio "fixed" the date of the alleged Oswald visit on September 26 or September 27, she actually told the FBI that she was not at all positive about the exact date, (4) and that it might have been as early as September 25. (5)

(69) The Warren Commission asserted that Oswald left New Orleans by bus for Houston, on his way to Mexico, on September 25. (6) Yet there was no documentary evidence as substantiation, and neither the bus driver nor any passenger could recall seeing Oswald on that bus. (7) In fact, Warren Commission General Counsel J. Lee Rankin asked the FBI to investigate the possibility that Oswald left New Orleans on September 24, (8) when a neighbor saw him leaving his apartment carrying two suitcases. (9) Rankin pointed out in his letter to J. Edgar Hoover that:


Marina Oswald told the Commission that her husband told her he intended to leave New Orleans the very next day following her departure on September 23, 1963. She has also indicated that he told her an unemployment check would be forwarded to Mrs. Ruth Paine's address in Irving from his post office box in New Orleans.* * * It also seems impossible to us that Oswald would have gone all the way back to the Winn-Dixie store at 4303 Magazine Street to cash the unemployment check which he supposedly picked up at the Lafayette Branch of the Post Office when he could have cashed it at Martin's Restaurant, where he had previously cashed many of his Reily checks and one unemployment check. That is particularly true if he received the check on September 25, 1963, as previously thought, and had left his apartment with his suitcases the evening before. (10)
(70) The FBI never came up with any evidence which resolved the questions raised in Rankin's request. In sum, the Warren Commission developed no hard evidence that could substantiate the fact that Oswald was or was not in Dallas during the time period Odio said she saw him.

(71) Although the Warren Commission stated that the FBI had not yet completed its investigation at the time its report went to press, (11) it was only 2 days after its September 16, 1964, interview of Loran Eugene Hall that the FBI interviewed William Seymour, who denied he ever had any contact with Silvia Odio and that he had been in Dallas with Hall in September 1963. (12) The FBI subsequently confirmed the fact that Seymour was working in Florida during September 1963. (13) On September 23, 1964, the FBI interviewed Loran Hall's other associate, Lawrence Howard. (14) Howard also denied he had ever contacted Silvia Odio. (15) The FBI then went back and re-interviewed Hall who then said that he had been accompanied on his trip to Dallas not by Seymour but by a Cuban friend he knew as "Wahito" and that he no longer recalled any contact with Odio. (16) The FBI determined that "Wahito" was Celio Sergio Castro(17) who, when interviewed, said he had never heard of or met Silvia Odio. (18) On October 1, 1964, the FBI showed Silvia Odio photographs of Loran Hall, William Seymour, Lawrence Howard and Celio Sergio Castro. (19) She examined the photographs and said that none of the individuals were identical to any of the three men who had come to her apartment door in Dallas. (20)

(72) In view of the premature character of the Warren Commission's conclusion based on the impeached Loran Hall allegation and the unresolved question of Oswald's whereabouts at the time, the Odio incident remains one of the lingering enigmas in the original assassination investigation. Unfortunately, the nature of the incident makes it, from an investigative standpoint, particularly susceptible to the erosive effects of time. The canvassing, for instance, of both pro-Castro and anti-Castro groups in Dallas, New Orleans, and Miami in search of descriptive similarities to the men who visited Odio might have been fruitful at the time; today it is impractical. The construction of a composite sketch of the individuals when their features were still fresh in Odio's memory might have provided productive evidence 15 years ago; today it is of questionable value considering the natural adulteration of recall over that period of time. A search for the car that the men were driving might have been very productive at the time; today it is useless. The committee was, therefore handicapped by the limitations of the initial investigation and the paucity of evidence developed. The valid investigative approaches remaining were distressingly limited. Nevertheless, because of the potential significance of the Odio incident to a possible conspiracy in the Kennedy assassination, the committee decided that, in addition to pursuing any substantive leads it possible could, it would also attempt to verify the record regarding Silvia Odio's credibility and the details of her allegations.

(73) Also of interest to the committee, of course, were the initial assertions of Loran Hall that he and two associates, William Seymour and Lawrence Howard, were the ones who had visited Odio in September. (21) All three had been actively involved in anti-Castro activity and were members of a group of soldiers of fortune called Interpen. (22) The group was arrested at No Name Key, Fla., in December 1962 as part of the Kennedy administration's crackdown on anti-Castro operations. (23) That policy, which highly incensed the anti-Castro and right-wing factions, was the result of an agreement Kennedy had made with Khrushchev and Castro. (24) Those factions considered the agreement a "betrayal."(25)

(74) Loran Hall provided sworn testimony to the committee at an executive session on October 5, 1977. The following passage is an excerpt from that testimony:

Q. Did there come a time when the FBI spoke to you about whether or not you visited Silvia Odio in September 1963?
Hall. Yes; there was.
Q. Who spoke to you?
Hall. An FBI agent.
Q. At that time were you advised why you were being questioned about Silvia Odio?
Hall. I really don't recall. He stated as I recall, he stated something to the effect that were you ever in Dallas, Tex., and I said yes. He said do you know a Mrs. Odio, and I said I don't recall knowing a Mrs. Odio. I think I knew a Professor Odio, who was a professor at Texas, some university in Texas, just outside of Dallas, as I recall. He asked me anyway about the apartment building on Magellan and I said it is possible, I don't know. I said do you have a picture of her and he said no; I do not have. And I said, it is possible I met her but I don't recall. He then asked me who was with me and I told him I was with Alba and Howard, and then it was like maybe a month or two.
Q. And you told him you were there with Howard and Alba?
Hall. Yes.
Q. On the first trip?
Hall. Yes. We both read the same FBI report. You know it is directly contradictory to what I am saying.
Q. So it is your testimony that at no time did you ever tell an FBI agent that you were in Dallas accompanied by Lawrence Howard and William Seymour, is that your testimony?
Hall. That is true.
Q. Were you ever directly or indirectly involved with Silvia Odio in acquiring military equipment for anti-Castro raids?
Hall. No; I was not. (26)

(75) The committee interviewed Lawrence Howard on May 23, 1978. Howard stated he has never met Silvia Odio. (27) The committee also interviewed William Seymour, who acknowledged his relationship with Hall and Howard but did not recall any details of a trip to Dallas, including meeting any Cubans there. (28)

(76) The committee believed it important in its investigation to examine in detail the substance of Silvia Odio's allegations as well as their credibility. One of the problems faced by the committee was Odio's negative attitude toward a governmental investigation of the Kennedy assassination. Her attitude, she said, was the result of her relationship with the Warren Commission. (29) She expressed sharp disillusionment with the Warren Commission and said that it was obvious to her that the Commission did not want to believe her story. (30) A committee investigator noted that her whole demeanor was "one of sharp distrust of the Government's motives. She claims she feels she was just used by the Warren Commission for their own ends and she does not want to be put in the same position."(31) Nevertheless, after contact was established by the committee, Odio's cooperation with the committee was excellent, and she voluntarily submitted to interviews and, subsequently, sworn testimony.

(77) Evidence indicated that Odio's story remained basically consistent with her Warren Commission testimony. There are, however, details concerning Odio, her background, and certain points of her story developed by the committee, which should be noted. (78) Silvia Odio was one of 10 children of Amador and Sarah Odio who were sent out of Cuba when their parents began taking an active part in a counterrevolutionary movement shortly after Castro took power. (32) Amador Odio was among Cuba's wealthy aristocracy, the personal friend of diplomats and Ambassadors, including, during the last days of the U.S. presence there, American Ambassador Phillip Bonsal. (33) Odio was owner of the country's largest trucking business and was once described in Time magazine as the "transport tycoon" of Latin America. (34) Yet, from their youth, both he and his wife were active, frontline fighters against the succession of tyrants who ruled Cuba. During the reign of Gen. Gerardo Machado in the 1930's, Sarah Odio was captured and beaten with a machete until her ribs were broken. (35) Twice during the dictatorship of Fulgencio Batista, the Odios were forced into exile for their revolutionary activity. (36) Amador Odio's trucks were the main supply line for the weapons and ammunition which kept Castro's hopes alive in the mountains. Yet when the Odios decided that Castro had "betrayed the revolution,"(37) they were among the founding members, with Manolo Ray, of one of the early, most aggressive anti-Castro groups, the Movimiento Revolucionario del Pueblo (MRP). (38)

(79) Amador and Sarah Odio were arrested by Castro on October 26, 1961. (39) Their arrest was the result of the capture of MRP national coordinator Reynaldo Gonzales in hiding on their country estate. (40) Ironically, the Odios had once hosted the wedding of one of Fidel Castro's sisters on the very estate, a large, resort-like retreat in El Cano, outside of Havana. (41) Later, Castro would turn it into a national women's prison and Sarah Odio would spend 8 years incarcerated there, while her husband was placed in a cell on Isla de Pinos. (42) Reynaldo Gonzales had been wanted in connection with his involvement in the assassination attempt on Castro that had been organized by Antonio Veciana. (43)

(80) Silvia was the oldest of the Odio's 10 children. (44) She had been sent for her early education to a private girls' school near Philadelphia and later returned to Cuba and attended law school there. (45)

(81) When her parents were arrested, Silvia Odio was 24 years old, living in Puerto Rico with her husband and four young children. (46) The next year her husband, sent to Germany by the chemical firm for which he was working, deserted her and her children. (47) Destitute and alone, she began having emotional problem. (48) By that time, Silva's younger sister, Annie and Sarita, were settled in Dallas. (49) Sarita, a student at the University of Dallas, had become friendly with Mrs. Lucille Connell, the leader of women's club at a local Episcopal church who had organized a club program to provide financial and social support to the Dallas Cuban Refugee Center. (50) Connell also happened to be very active in the Mental Health Association of Dallas and, since her son was a psychiatrist, had personally acquired an interest in mental health problem. (51) When Sarita told Connell of her sister Silvia's plight, Connell made arrangements to have Silvia move to Dallas and to receive psychiatric treatment for her emotional problems at the Southwestern Medical School. (52)

(82) According to Connell, who for a period was Silvia's closest confidante, Silvia's emotional problems, brought on by her suddenly being left alone with four young children, her parents being imprisoned and her lifestyle abruptly changing from one of wealth to one of deep destitution, were manifested in attacks of total loss of consciousness "when reality got too painful to bear."(53) Connell said she personally witnessed Odio suffer these attacks in her home when she first arrived in Dallas, but with psychiatric treatment their frequency subsided and they subsequently ended, until the Kennedy assassination. (54)

(83) Silvia Odio had moved to Dallas in March 1963. (55) By September 1963 she was well established in the community, had a decent income from a good job, had her emotional problems under control and was doing well enough to be planning a move into a better apartment. (56) She was scheduled to make that move on October 1, 1963, a Monday. (57) The week before, she recalled, she had done some packing in preparation for the move and there were boxes scattered across her living room floor which she had to jump over to get to the door. (58) Her sister Annie, who was then 17, had come to the apartment to help her and babysit with her children. (59) When the doorbell rang early one evening in that last week of September, it was Annie who went to the door to answer it. (60)

(84) The complex in which Silvia Odio lived at 1084 Magellan Circle in Dallas was a series of garden-type rental apartments, two-story units with four apartments to each unit. (61) The two lower units had front doors that faced a common inner vestibule which, in turn, bordered a small, open cement porch elevated a few steps above the ground level. (62) Both the vestibule and porch had overhead lights. (63) Silvia Odio lived in apartment A of the 1084 unit, a first floor apartment. (64)

(85a) Annie Odio provided the committee with a sworn statement of her independent recollection. (65) She remembered the evening when three men came to the door of Silvia's apartment in Dallas. (66) One of the men asked to speak to Sarita. (67) He spoke English initially but when Annie answered him in Spanish he subsequently also spoke Spanish. (68) Annie told him that Sarita didn't live there. (69) Then, according to Annie's recollection:


He said something, I don't recall exactly what, perhaps something about her being married, which made me think that they really wanted my sister Sylvia. I recall putting the chain on the door after I told them to wait while I went to get Silvia. I don't exactly recall but they may have also said something about belonging to JURE, the anti-Castro movement. (70)
(85b) Annie also recalled that Silvia was initially reluctant to talk with the strange visitors because she was getting dressed to go out. But she remembered Silvia coming out in her bathrobe to go to the door. (71) Annie said that she could only recall what one of the two Latin men looked like, but it is not a specific recollection, only that he was heavy set, had dark shiny hair combed back and "looked Mexican."(72) She said " the one in the middle was American."(73)

(85c) In testimony to the committee, Silvia Odio also recalled that the three men came to the door. (74) She recalled that it was a weekday because she worked that day. (75) She said the men identified themselves as members of JURE, spoke of both its founder, Manolo Ray, and her father, who had worked closely with Ray. (76) Odio said that almost all the conversation she had was with only one of the men, the one who identified himself as "Leopoldo."(77)

(85d) Odio was positive in her recollection of the name "Leopoldo"(78) but said that the men admitted to her they were giving her aliases or "war names."(79) She was less certain of the other Latin's name, but believed it might have been "Angelo" or "Angel."(80) She described him, as her sister did, as being stocky, with black hair and looking "more Mexican than anything else."(81) The third visitor, the "American,"(82) was introduced to her as "Leon Oswald."(83) She said "Leon Oswald" acknowledged the introduction with a very brief reply, perhaps in idiomatic Spanish, (84) but she later concluded that he could not understand Spanish because of his lack of reaction to her Spanish conversation with "Leopoldo."(85)

(86) Silvia Odio was relatively consistent in her testimony to the Warren Commission and to the committee in her specific descriptions of the three visitors. (86) Her description of "Leopoldo" was especially noteworthy because he has certain very distinct features, including an unusual hairline that is sharply recessed on the sides. (87) Her description of "Leon Oswald" was similar to the characteristics of Lee Harvey Oswald. (88) There was absolutely no doubt in her own mind that her visitor was, in fact, Lee Harvey Oswald. (89) She pointed out that she did have ample opportunity to view him, her conversation with the three men lasting more than 20 minutes, her viewing distance being only about 3 feet and the light available more than adequate. (90) She also recalled but not very clearly, that "Leopoldo" may have told her that they had just come from New Orleans. (91).

(87) Odio told the committee, as she did the Warren Commission, (92) that the reason the men came to her was to get her help in soliciting funds in the name of JURE from local businessmen. (93) She said:


He (Leopoldo) told me that he would like for me to write them in English, very nice letter, and perhaps we could get some funds. (94)
That is consistent with the recollection of her sister Annie, who was in the apartment at the time the conversation was being conducted through the open door in the vestibule. She recalled that the men came because "they wanted something translated."(95)

(88) According to Silvia Odio, her conversation with "Leopoldo" ended without her giving him any commitment to do anything, but he gave her the impression he would contact her again. (96) The visit ended without "Leon" or "Angelo" having any conversation with her aside from a brief greeting word or two. (97) After the men left, Odio decided to go to the window and watch them. (98) She saw them get into a red car that was parked in the driveway in front of the apartment. (99) She said she could not see who was driving the car, but did see "Angelo" on the passenger side of the car. (100)

(89) The cloudiest part of Odio's recollection concerned the telephone call she later received from "Leopoldo."(101) It could have occurred, she said, the day after the visit or 2 days after the visit. (102) She thought it was in the afternoon, but she cannot remember. (103) She believed it was on a Saturday, when she was not working, but is not certain. (104) She was, however, relatively clear in her recollection of the gist of what "Leopoldo" told her when he called her on the telephone and that, too, was consistent with her testimony before the Warren Commission. (105) She said that "Leopoldo" told her that "the Gringo" had been a Marine, that he was an expert marksman and that he was "kind of loco."(106) She recalled:


He said that the Cubans, we did not have any guts because we should have assassinated Kennedy after the Bay of Pigs. (107)
(90) On the day that President Kennedy was assassinated, Silvia Odio was coming back from lunch when she heard the news. (108) She recalled:


As soon as we got back to the office, everybody had their radios on and everybody was listening to it. By the time the news came that the President was dead, the president of the company told us that we could go home. I started going back to--I was very frightened and very upset * * * I started moving across the warehouse toward the parking lot where we kept our ears * * * I think next I had passed out. My mind was going around in circles * * *(109)
(91) During her testimony before the committee, Odio was asked if, when she heard that Kennedy was assassinated, she thought of the three men who had visited her apartment almost 2 months prior. Her reply: "Oh, very definitely, very definitely."(110) She added: "I had put them out of my mind, but they came back that day."(111)

(92) The next thing she remembered after blacking out was regaining consciousness later in a hospital room. (112) She recalled that her sister Annie had just entered. (113) She remembered watching the first image of Oswald she saw coming across the television screen in the hospital room: "Annie and I sort of looked at one another and sort of gasped. She said, 'Do you recognize him?' I said yes, and I said, 'Do you recognize him?' She said, 'It is the same guy, isn't it?' I said, 'Yes, but do not say anything.' "(114)

(93) This excerpt from the independent sworn statement given to the committee by Annie Odio concerns the day of the assassination.


On the day of the assassination of President Kennedy I had gone with my girlfriend, Cherie Matlock, and some other friends to a place where we could see the President's motorcade pass by. I don't remember where it was, only that it was quite a distance from downtown Dallas and Dealey Plaza. After the motorcade passed by we went to a drive-in restaurant for some hamburgers. When we were coming out of the drive-in we heard that Kennedy was shot. When I first heard that Kennedy was shot I did not make any connection between the shooting and the men who came to Silvia's door. Later in the afternoon I was by myself in the Matlock home when I first saw Oswald on television. My first thought was, "My God, I know this guy and I don't know from where! But I'm not going to tell anybody because they're going to think I'm crazy." But I kept thinking, "Where have I seen this guy?" Then my sister Sarita called and told me that Silvia had fainted at work and that she was sending her boyfriend Jim, who is now her husband to pick me up and take me to the hospital to see Silvia. Sarita did not tell me then why Silvia had fainted. I remember that it was getting dark when Jim picked me up and that we had to drive by Dealey Plaza. I don't remember Jim coming up to the room in the hospital with me when I saw Silvia. I don't remember anyone else in the room, but it was a very small room. Silvia was in bed. The first thing I remember when I walked into the room was that Silvia started crying and crying. I don't remember her saying anything. I think that I told her: "You know this guy on TV who shot President Kennedy? I think I know him." And she said: "No, I cannot recall, but I know I've seen him before." And then she told me: "Do you remember those three guys who came to the house?" And that's when I realized I had seen Oswald before. And then she told me everything, including the fact that one of the men had called back, that she had called him "Leon," that he said he wanted to be called "Leon," and that he said something like the Cubans should kill Kennedy because of what he did with the Bay of Pigs. Silvia also told me that when she first heard that President Kennedy was shot, she started saying: "Leon did it. Leon did it!" I remember that Silvia was very excited at the hospital and that she kept saying that she knew that Leon was going to do it. (115)
(94) Because they were extremely frightened, concerned for their brothers and sisters and their own safety, worried about their mother and father in prison in Cuba and terrifyingly bewildered about the meaning of the three men's visit, Silvia and Annie Odio decided not to reveal the incident. (116) It was, in fact, only circuitously that the FBI came to learn of it.

(95) According to Silvia Odio's close friend, Lucille Connell, she received a call from Silvia's sister Sarita who told her that Silvia had fainted and was in the hospital. (117) Sarita also told her why Silvia had fainted and the fact that Silvia had met Oswald and that he had come to her apartment. (118) Connell could not recall exactly when Sarita called; she said it was either the day of the assassination or the day after. (119) Connell said that Sunday, however, she was speaking on the telephone to a friend of hers, Mrs. Sanford Pick, then working as a receptionist in a Dallas law firm office, when they both saw Ruby shoot Oswald on their television sets. (120) Connell recalled: "And she said to me, 'Oh my goodness, Ruby was in our office last week and had power of attorney drawn for his sister.' "(121)

(96) Connell said that later that same day she happened to be speaking with another friend, Marcella Insua, the daughter of the head of the Dallas Cuban Relief Committee. Connell mentioned to Insua what her other friend had said about Ruby being in her law office. (122) Insua, Connell said, happened to have a class of American children to whom she was teaching Spanish. (123) In that class, she got into a discussion of the Kennedy assassination and mentioned that she knew someone who knew someone who had some dealings with Ruby. (124) It also happened that there was a son of a local FBI agent in Insua's class. (125) That was how the FBI subsequently came to contact Connell and learn about the Odio incident. (126)

(97) A factor in judging Odio's credibility was evidence that indicates that she told someone prior to the Kennedy assassination that three men visited her, that one of them was introduced to her as "Leon Oswald," and that she was told that this "Leon" had suggested assassinating President Kennedy.

(98) Silvia Odio told the committee that immediately after the visit of the three men, she wrote to her father in prison in Cuba to ask him if he knew who they were. (127) Amador Odio, who was released from prison in 1969 and is now living in Miami, told committee investigators that he received Silvia's letter and replied to it. (128) He did not recall when he received the letter, but his reply, dated December 19, 1963, indicated it was very likely in late October or early November 1963. (129) He wrote: "Tell me who this is who says he is my friend be careful. I do not have any friend who might be here, through Dallas, so reject his friendship until you give me his name."(130)

(99) Silvia Odio told the committee she recalled, although her recollection was "not very strong," that she also told Lucille Connell prior to the Kennedy assassination that three men had visited her apartment. (131) She said it had to have been before the assassination because she did not see Connell after the assassination as the result of a falling out between them. (132) Prior to that, however, Odio said, she was frequently at Connell's house and she specifically recalled a dinner party, "which may have had something to do with the Mental Health Association or been given in honor of some doctor or psychiatrist," at which, during a conversation in the library, she mentioned the visit of the three men. (133) She said it would have been very likely that she told Connell because "she was the type who was a very curious person about the details of your life. She always asked a lot of questions about my life and what I was doing."(134)

(100) Lucille Connell told the committee she did not recall Silvia Odio specifically telling her about Oswald at any time, before or after the assassination. (135) She did not recall talking with Odio at a dinner party prior to the assassination, although, she said, she may have. (136) She said her contact with Silvia Odio had not been frequent within the months prior to the assassination. (137)

(101) In her recollection the one person that Silvia Odio was most positive of telling prior to the assassination about the visit of the three men was her psychiatrist at the time, Dr. Burton C. Einspruch. (138) At the time of the Kennedy assassination, Odio had been seeing Einspruch for about 7 months, (139) usually on a weekly basis and occasionally more frequently. (140) She was suffering from what Einspruch described as "a situational life problem. She had a large family, she was semi-impoverished, she was an immigrant, her parents were imprisoned * * * she had all the difficulties one might anticipate a displaced person would have."(141)

(102) Both the FBI and the Warren Commission staff questioned Einspruch after the assassination. (142) The FBI report noted that Einspruch believed Odio "is telling the truth."(143) The Warren Commission staff report noted that "Dr. Einspruch stated that he had great faith in Miss Odio's story of having met Lee Harvey Oswald." (144) Neither report indicated that Einspruch had been questioned about the specific details of Odio's allegations, whether he had been asked if Odio told him about the visit of the three men and, if she did, when she did. (145)

(103) In sworn testimony to the committee, Einspruch reiterated his judgment of Odio as a "truthful" person. (146) He said he no longer had any files available to document his recollection, but he believed that Odio's visits to him had been scheduled, at around the time of the assassination, on Wednesdays. (147)

(104) Einspruch specifically recalled that Odio had told him, during the normal course of the "format" of the sessions with her in which she related what happened during the previous week, (148) that she had been visited by three men. (149) He recalled that she told him of the visit prior to the assassination. (150) He was definite that she told him that two of the visitors were "Cubans or Latins" and that the third was an "Anglo."(151) He is not sure she mentioned the name "Leon" at his session with her prior to the assassination. (152) He did remember that when he telephoned Odio on the day of or the day after the assassination, she did mention "Leon" and she did "in a sort of historic way" connect the visit of the three men to the Kennedy assassination and did recognize one of those men as "Leon."(153) Einspruch could not recall, however, that Odio told him prior to the assassination that "Leopoldo" had telephoned her and spoke of "Leon" suggesting Kennedy be assassinated. (154)

(105) As noted earlier, the committee's ability to investigate the substance of Silvia Odio's allegations was severely restricted, not only by the time that has elapsed since they were originally made, but also by the lack of material available in the basic investigative files. Both the Warren Commission and the FBI failed to pursue adequately the investigation when several leads still held a potential for development. The description provided by Odio of at least one of the Latin visitors, for instance, was detailed enough to justify a thorough canvassing of both the anti-Castro and pro-Castro militant Cuban communities in Dallas, New Orleans, and Miami for individuals with similar striking characteristics. That, in conjunction with a search for the specifically described car the men were seen driving, might have been fruitful. Committee reviews of Warren Commission files and FBI reports revealed no such investigative approach. The focus, instead, was on attempting to determine the possibility of Oswald being in Dallas when Odio reported she saw him. That approach proved inconclusive.

(106) Nevertheless, there were other points that could be examined in attempting to determine the identity of the Silvia Odio visitors. The fact, for instance, that the men claimed to know her father and have knowledge of his activities appeared to be of possible investigatory significance. It was discovered, however, that a front page article in the Dallas News on May 5, 1962, could have provided a source of background information on Odio's parents. (155) The article featured a large photo of Annie and Sarita Odio and detailed the plight of their parents in prison as well as their backgrounds. (156) It also could be related to the fact that "Leopoldo" initially asked for Sarita when Annie Odio answered the door. (157)

(107) Although the committee considered the possibility that the Odio visitors were being deceptive in claiming an association with the anti-Castro organization JURE, it nevertheless attempted to determine if they were, in fact, members of that group. The committee conducted extensive interviews with Amador Odio, (158) who was very active with JURE in Cuba prior to his imprisonment, and made an attempt to contact remaining members of the Dallas chapter of JURE. (159) Although the results of the committee's efforts must be viewed in terms of the lengthy period of time that had elapsed, no present recollection of JURE members active in 1963 who used the war names of "Leopoldo" or "Angelo" or fitted the descriptions provided by Silvia Odio could be found. (160)

(108) In addition, the committee also interviewed the founder and leader of JURE, Manolo Ray, now living in Puerto Rico. (161) Ray said he had been questioned by the FBI about the Odio incident some time after the Kennedy assassination, but he was asked only about Silvia Odio's reliability and credibility. (162) "They told me that she had met Oswald," Ray said. "I don't remember them telling me that the men who came to her said they were members of JURE * * * (163) Ray told the committee that he knew of no members of JURE traveling through Dallas in September 1963 in search of money or arms. (164) He does not recall anyone by the name of "Leopoldo" or "Angelo" associated with JURE at the time. (165) He said he had no American contacts in Dallas, nor did he receive any major financial support from anyone there. (166)

(109) In addition to these attempts to identify the Odio visitors, the committee asked Silvia Odio to review some 300 photographs of Cuban activists, both pro-Castro and anti-Castro, and individuals who had or may have had some association with Lee Harvey Oswald and the Kennedy assassination. (167) She could not identify any of the individuals in the photographs as being the two who came to her apartment with "Leon Oswald."

(110) Finally, the committee requested the CIA to run a check on all individuals who used the "war names" of "Leopoldo" and "Angelo" during the period of interest. (168) The CIA response resulted in the photographs of three individuals who might have been in Dallas in September 1963. (169) The photographs were shown to Silvia Odio with negative results. (170)

CONCLUSIONS

(111) It appears that Silvia Odio's testimony is essentially credible. From the evidence provided in the sworn testimony of corroborating witnesses, there is no doubt that three men came to her apartment in Dallas prior to the Kennedy assassination and identified themselves as members of an anti-Castro Cuban organization. From a judgment of the credibility of both Silvia and Annie Odio, it must be concluded that there is a strong probability that one of the men was or appeared to be Lee Harvey Oswald. No conclusion about the significance of that visit could be reached. The possibilities were considered that Oswald actually had some association with JURE, the anti-Castro group headed by Manolo Ray, and that Oswald wanted it to appear that he had that association in order to implicate the group, politically a left-of-center Cuban organization, in the Kennedy assassination.

(112) Additionally, no definite conclusion on the specific date of the visit could be reached. The possibility that it could have been as early as September 24, the morning of which Oswald was seen in New Orleans, exists. The visit was more likely on September 25,26, or 27. If it were, then Oswald, judging from evidence developed by both the Warren Commission and this committee, had to have had access to private transportation to get to Dallas from New Orleans a situation that indicates possible conspiratorial involvement.

(113) The scope of its investigation in the Odio incident was limited as a result of the inadequate investigation performed by the FBI and the Warren Commission at the time. The lack of immediate recognition of the significance of the Odio incident produced a far from comprehensive investigation at the only time a comprehensive and perhaps, fruitful investigation would have been possible.

Submitted by:

GAETON J. FONZI,

Investigator.

Warren Report: Testimony of Sylvia Odio (Part 1)

The testimony of Sylvia Odio was taken at 9 a.m., on July 22, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. Liebeler: Would you please rise and take the oath? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mrs. Odio: Yes; I do.

Mr. Liebeler: Please sit down. My name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I am an attorney on the staff of the President's Commission investigating the assassination of President Kennedy. I have been authorized to take your testimony by the Commission, pursuant to authority granted to the Commission by Executive Order 11130 dated November 29, 1963, and joint resolution of Congress No. 137. Under the rules of the Commission, you are entitled to have an attorney present, if you wish one. You are also entitled to 3 days' notice of the hearing, and you are not required to answer any question that you think might incriminate you or might violate some other privilege you may have. I think the Secret Service did call you, or Martha Joe Stroud, here in the U.S. attorney's office, called you and gave you notice.

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you wish to have an attorney present?

Mrs. Odio: No; I don't think so.

Mr. Liebeler: We want to ask you some questions about the possibility that you saw Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mrs. Odio: Before you start, let me give you a letter of my father's which he wrote me from prison. You can have it. It was very funny, because at the time he wrote it, the FBI incident happened a week later. I told my father this man had been in my house and he introduced himself as your friend; and he wrote me back in December telling me that such people were not his friends, and he said not to receive anybody in my house, and not any of them were his friends, and he didn't know those people. At the time I did give the names of one or two, and he wrote back, "I actually don't know who they are."

Mr. Liebeler: Let's come to this during the course of the questioning, but I am glad you brought it up. I do want to get to it, because it may help us determine who these people were.

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: First of all, would you tell us where you were born?

Mrs. Odio: In Havana, Cuba.

Mr. Liebeler: Approximately when?

Mrs. Odio: 1937.

Mr. Liebeler: How long did you live in Cuba?

Mrs. Odio: Until, well, I studied in the United States, so I mean--you mean my whole life until--it was 1960.

Mr. Liebeler: 1960?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Then you left Cuba and came to the United States, is that correct?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Where did you come to in the United States?

Mrs. Odio: We first came to Miami, and we stayed there just a few days and left for Ponce, Puerto Rico, and we stayed there 2 years.

Mr. Liebeler: Then from Ponce, did you come to Dallas?

Mrs. Odio: From Ponce, I came straight to Dallas last year, March of last year.

Mr. Liebeler: So that you have been in Dallas since March of 1963, is that correct?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: You indicated that you had gone to school in the United States. Where?

Mrs. Odio: Eden Hall Convent of The Sacred Heart, in Philadelphia.

Mr. Liebeler: How long did you go to school there?

Mrs. Odio: Three years.

Mr. Liebeler: That is what, high school?

Mrs. Odio: That's right. From 1951 to 1954.

Mr. Liebeler: Was that period of 3 years the only time you were in the United States prior to the time that you came to Dallas in March of 1963? The only time in the United States over any extended period of time?

Mrs. Odio: Excuse me, when I got married in 1957, I stayed 8 months--9 months in New Orleans.

Mr. Liebeler: So that you lived in the United States for 9 months in 1956?

Mrs. Odio. That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: You had been in Philadelphia for 3 years from 1954 on, is that correct?

Mrs. Odio: No; from 1951 to 1954, when I graduated.

Mr. Liebeler: And for the period in New Orleans and when you came to the United States finally?

Mrs. Odio: In 1960, December 25, 1960.

Mr. Liebeler: So after you came in December of 1960, you went to Puerto Rico and lived in. Puerto Rico for 2 years, and you came to Dallas in 1963 and you have been here ever since?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: Would you tell us briefly what your educational background is, Mrs. Odio?

Mrs. Odio: Well, I had grammar school in Cuba. I started high school in Cuba and then I was sent to the Sacred Heart and I applied for college, and went back and studied law in the University of Villanova. I did not finish because my career was interrupted because of Castro, and I didn't finish law.

Mr. Liebeler: How much training did you have in law?

Mrs. Odio: I had almost 3 years.

Mr. Liebeler: Of law study in Cuba?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: My record indicates that on December 18, 1963, you were interviewed by two agents of the FBI, Mr. James P. Hoary and Bardwell D. Odum. Do you remember that?

Mrs. Odio: That's correct.

Mr. Liebeler: It is my understanding that they interviewed you at your place of work, is that correct?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you remember approximately what they asked you and what you told them?

Mrs. Odio: I think I remember. Not exactly, but I think I can recall the conversation.

Mr. Liebeler: Would you give us the content of that conversation, as best you can recall.

Mrs. Odio: They told me they were coming because of the assassination of President Kennedy, that they had news that I knew or I had known Lee Harvey Oswald. And I told them that I had not known him as Lee Harvey Oswald, but that he was introduced to me as Leon Oswald. And they showed me a picture of Oswald and a picture of Ruby. I did not know Ruby, but I did recall Oswald. They asked me about my activities in JURE. That is the Junta Revolutionary, and it is led by Manolo Ray. I told him that I did belong to this organization because my father and mother had belonged in Cuba, and I had seen him (Ray) in Puerto recently, and that I knew him personally, and that I did belong to JURE. They asked me about the members here in Dallas, and I told him a few names of the Cubans here. They asked me to tell the story about what happened in my house.

Mr. Liebeler: Who was it that you had seen in Puerto Rico?

Mrs. Odio: Mr. Ray, I had seen. He was a very close friend of my father and mother. He hid in my house several times in Cuba. So they asked me to tell him how I came to know Oswald, and I told them that it was something very brief and I could not recall the time, exact date. I still can't. We more or less have established that it was the end of September. And, of course, my sister had recognized him at the same time I did, but I did not say anything to her. She came very excited one day and said, "That is the man that was in my house." And I said, "Yes; I remember."

Warren Report: Testimony of Sylvia Odio (Part 2)

Mr. Liebeler: Tell us all the circumstances surrounding the event when Oswald came to your house.

Mrs. Odio: Well, I had been having little groups of Cubans coming to my house who have been asking me to help them in JURE. They were going to open a revolutionary paper here in Dallas. And I told them at the time I was very busy with my four children, and I would help, in other things like selling bonus to help buy arms for Cuba. And I said I would help as much as I could. Those are my activities before Oswald came. Of course, all the Cubans knew that I was involved in JURE, but it did not have a lot of sympathy in Dallas and I was criticized because of that.

Mr. Liebeler: Because of what now?

Mrs. Odio: Because I was sympathetic with Ray and this movement. Ray has always had the propaganda that he is a leftist and that he is Castro without Castro. So at that time I was planning to move over to Oak Cliff because it was much nearer to my work in Irving. So we were all involved in this moving business, and my sister Annie, who at the time was staying with some America friends, had come over that weekend to babysit for me. It either was a Thursday or 'a Friday. It must have been either one of those days, in the last days of September. And I was getting dressed to go out to a friend's house, and she was staying to babysit.
Like I said, the doorbell rang .and she went over--she had a housecoat on--she wasn't dressed properly--and came back and said, "Sylvia, there are three men at the door, and one seems to be an American, the other two seem to be Cubans. Do you know them ?" So I put a housecoat on and stood at the door. I never opened my door unless I know who they are, because I have had occasions where Cubans. have introduced themselves as having arrived from Cuba and known my family, and I never know.

So I went to the door, and he said, "Are you Sarita Odio?" And I said, "I am not. That is my sister studying at the University of Dallas. I am Sylvia." Then he said, "Is she the oldest?" And I said, "No; I am the oldest." And he said, "It is you we are looking for." So he said, "We are members of JURE."

This at the time struck me funny, because their faces did not seem familiar, and I asked them for their names. One of them said his name was Leopoldo. He said that was his war name. In all this underground, everybody has a war name. This was done for safety in Cuba. So when everybody came to exile, everyone was known by their war names.

And the other one did give me his name, but I can't recall. I have been trying to recall. It was something like Angelo. I have never been able to remember, and I couldn't be exact on this name, but the other one I am exact on; I remember perfectly.

Mr. Liebeler: Let me ask you this before you go ahead with the story. Which one of the men told you that they were members of JURE and did most of the talking? Was it the American?

Mrs. Odio: The American had not said a word yet.

Mr. Liebeler: Which one of the Cubans?

Mrs. Odio: The American was in the middle. They were leaning against the staircase. There was a tall one. Let me toll you, they both looked very greasy like the kind of low Cubans, not educated at all. And one was on the heavier side and had black hair. I recall one of them had glasses, if I remember. We have been trying to establish, my sister and I, the identity of this man. And one of them, the tall one, was the one called Leopoldo.

Mr. Liebeler: He did most of the talking?

Mrs. Odio: He did most of the talking. The other one kept quiet, and the American, we will call him Leon, said just a few little words in Spanish, trying to be cute, but very few, like "Hola," like that in Spanish.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you have a chain on the door, or was the door completely opened?

Mrs. Odio: I had a chain.

Mr. Liebeler: Was the chain fastened?

Mrs. Odio: No; I unfastened it after a little while when they told me they were members of JURE, and were trying to let me have them come into the house. When I said no, one of them said, "We are very good friends of your father." This struck me, because I didn't think my father could have such kind of friends, unless he knew them from anti-Castro activities. He gave me so many details about where they saw my father and what activities he was in. I mean, they gave me almost incredible details about things that somebody who knows him really would or that somebody informed well knows. And after a little while, after they mentioned my father, they started talking about the American.

He said, "You are working in the underground." And I said, "No, I am sorry to say I am not working in the underground." And he said, "We wanted you to meet this American. His name is Leon Oswald." He repeated it twice. Then my sister Annie by that time was standing near the door. She had come to see what was going on. And they introduced him as an American who was very much interested in the Cuban cause. And let me see, if I recall exactly what they said about him. I don't recall at the time I was at the door things about him.
I recall a telephone call that I had the next day from the so-called Leopoldo, so I cannot remember the conversation at the door about this American.

Mr. Liebeler: Did your sister hear this man introduced as Leon Oswald?

Mrs. Odio: She says she doesn't recall. She could not say that it is true. I mean, even though she said she thought I had mentioned the name very clearly, and I had mentioned the names of the three men.

Mr. Liebeler: But she didn't remember it?

Mrs. Odio: No; she said I mentioned it, because I made a comment. This I don't recall. I said, "I am going to see Antonio Alentado," which is one of the leaders of the JURE here in Dallas. And I think I just casually said, "I am going to mention these names to him to see if he knows any of them." But I forgot about them.

Mr. Liebeler: Did your sister see the men?

Mrs. Odio: She saw the three of them.

Mr. Liebeler: Have you discussed this with her since that time?

Mrs. Odio: I just had to discuss it because it was bothering me. I just had to know.

Mr. Liebeler: Did she think it was Oswald?

Mrs. Odio: Well, her reaction to it when Oswald came on television, she almost passed out on me, just like I did the day at work when I learned about the assassination of the President. Her reaction was so obvious that it was him, I mean. And my reaction, we remember Oswald the day he came to my house because he had not shaved and he had a kind of a very, I don't know how to express it, but some little hairs like if you haven't shaved, but it is not a thick moustache, but some kind of shadow. That is something I noticed. And he was wearing--the other ones were wearing white dirty shirts, but he was wearing a long sleeved shirt.

Mr. Liebeler: What kind of shirt was it, a white shirt?

Mrs. Odio: No; it was either green or blue, and he had it rolled up to here.

Mr. Liebeler: Almost to his elbows?

Mrs. Odio: No; less than that, just the ends of the sleeves.

Mr. Liebeler: Did he have a tie?

Mrs. Odio: No tie.

Mr. Liebeler: Was it a sport shirt, or working shirt?

Mrs. Odio: He had it open. I don't know if he had a collar or not, but it was open. And the other one had a white undershirt. One of them was very hairy. Where was I? I just want to remember everything.

Mr. Liebeler: You mentioned when your sister saw Oswald's picture on television that she almost passed out. Did she recognize him, do you know, as the man that had been in the apartment?

Mrs. Odio: She said, "Sylvia, you know that man?" And I said, "Yes," and she said, "I know him." "He was the one that came to our door, and it couldn't be so, could it?"

That was our first interview. We were very much concerned after that. We were concerned and very scared, because I mean, it was such a shock.

This man, the other one, the second Cuban, took out a letter written in Spanish, and the content was something like we represent the revolutionary counsel, and we are making a big movement to buy arms for Cuba and to help overthrow the dictator Castro, and we want you to translate this letter and write it in English and send a whole lot of them to different industries to see if we can get some results.

This same petition had been asked of me by Alentado who was one of the leaders of JURE, here in Dallas. He had made this petition to me, "Sylvia, let's write letters to different industries to see if we can raise. some money." I had told him too, I was very busy. So I asked and I said, "Are you sent by Alentado? Is this a petition?"

Mr. Liebeler: You mentioned this Alentado who was one of the JURE representatives here in Dallas. Is that his full name?

Mrs. Odio: His name is Antonio.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you know a man by the name of George Rodriguez Alvareda?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Who is he?

Mrs. Odio: He is another member of JURE. And at the time, a little after that, after December. I was more in contact with him, and I will tell you why later. They are all members of JURE here in Dallas, working hard.
And so I asked him if they were sent by him, and he said, "No". And I said, "Do you know Eugeino?" This is the war name for_ _ _ _.That is his war name and everybody underground knows him as Eugenio. So I didn't mention his real name. He didn't know.

Mr. Liebeler: Who did you ask this?

Mrs. Odio: I asked these men when they came to the door--I asked if they had been sent by Alentado, became I explained to them that he had already asked me to do the letters and he said no. And I said, "Were you sent by Eugenio," and he said no. And I said, "Were you sent by Ray," and he said no. And I said, "Well, is this on your own?"

And he said, "We have just come from New Orleans and we have been trying to get this organized, this movement organized down there, and this is on on our own, but we think we could do some kind of work." This was all talked very fast, not as slow as I am saying it now. You know how fast Cubans talk. And he put the letter back in his pocket when I said no. And then I think I asked something to the American, trying to be nice, "Have you ever been to Cuba?" And he said, "No, I have never been to Cuba."

And I said, "Are you interested in our movement?" And he said, "Yes."

This I had not remembered until lately. I had not spoken much to him and I said, "If you will excuse me, I have to leave," and I repeated, "I am going to write to my father and tell him you have come to visit me."
And he said, "Is he still in the Isle of Pines?" And I think that was the extent of the conversation. They left, and I saw them through the window leaving in a car. I can't recall the car. I have been trying to.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you know which one of the men was driving?

Mrs. Odio: The tall one, Leopoldo.

Mr. Liebeler: Leopoldo?

Mrs. Odio: Yes; oh, excuse me, I forgot something very important. They kept mentioning that they had come to visit me at such a time of night, it was almost 9 o'clock, because they were leaving for a trip. And two or three times they said the same thing.

They said, "We may stay until tomorrow, or we might leave tomorrow night, but please excuse us for the hour." And he mentioned two or three times they were leaving for a trip. I didn't ask where, and I had the feeling they were leaving for Puerto Rico or Miami.

Mr. Liebeler: But they did not indicate where they were going?

Mrs. Odio: The next day Leopoldo called me. I had gotten home from work, so I imagine it must have been Friday. And they had come on Thursday. I have been trying to establish that. He was trying to get fresh with me that night. He was trying to be too nice, telling me that I was pretty, and he started like that. That is the way he started the conversation. Then he said, "What do you think of the American?" And I said, "I didn't think anything."

And he said, "You know our idea is to introduce him to the underground in Cuba, because he is great, he is kind of nuts." This was more or less--I can't repeat the exact words, because he was kind of nuts. He told us we don't have any guts, you Cubans, because President Kennedy should have been assassinated filter the Bay of Pigs, and some Cubans should have done that, because he was the one that was holding the freedom of Cuba actually. And I started getting a little upset with the conversation.

And he said, "It is so easy to do it." He has told us. And he (Leopoldo) used two or three bad words, and I wouldn't repeat it in Spanish. And he repeated again they were leaving for a trip and they would like very much to see me on their return to Dallas. Then he mentioned something more about Oswald. They called him Leon. He never mentioned the name Oswald.

Mr. Liebeler: He never mentioned the name of Oswald on the telephone?

Mrs. Odio: He never mentioned his last name. He alway. s referred to the American or Leon.

Mr. Liebeler: Did he mention his last name the night before?

Mrs. Odio: Before they left I asked their names again, and he mentioned their names again.

Mr. Liebeler: But he did not mention Oswald's name except as Leon?

Mrs. Odio: On the telephone conversation he referred to him as Leon or American. He said he had been a Marine and he was so interested in helping the Cubans, and he was terrific. That is the words he more or less used, in Spanish, that he was terrific. And I don't remember what else he said, or something that he was coming back or something, and he would see me. It's been a long time and I don't remember too well, that is more or less what he said.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you have an opinion at that time as to why Leopoldo called you back? What was his purpose in calling you back?

Mrs. Odio: At first, I thought he was just trying to get fresh with me. The second time, it never occurred to me until I went to my psychiatrist.

I used to go to see Dr. Einspruch in the Southwestern Medical School, and I used to tell him all the events that happened to me during the week. And he relates that I mentioned to him the fact that these men had been at my door, and the fact that these Cubans were trying to get in the underground, and thought I was a good contact for it, they were simply trying to introduce him. Anyhow, I did not know for what purpose.
My father and mother are prisoners, and you never know if they can blackmail you or they are going to get them out of there, if you give them a certain amount of money. You never know what to expect. I expect anything. Later on I did establish opinions, because you can't help but establish opinions.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you establish that opinion after the assassination or before the assassination?

Mrs. Odio: This first opinion that I mentioned to my psychiatrist, I did not give it a second thought. I forgot to tell Alentado about it; except 3 days later I wrote to my father after they came, and mentioned the fact that the two men had called themselves friends of his. And later in December, because the letter takes a long time to get here, he writes me back, "I do not know any of these men. Do not get involved with any of them."

Warren Report: Testimony of Sylvia Odio (Part 3)

Mr. Liebeler: You have already given us a copy of the letter that you received from your father in which he told you that these people were not his friends, and told you not to get involved with them?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you tell your father the names of these men when you wrote to him?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Your father did not, however, mention their names in his letter, did he?

Mrs. Odio: He mentioned their war names, because this was the only thing I knew. I probably put an Americano came too, two Cubans with an American, and I gave the names of the Cubans.

Mr. Liebeler: The copy of the letter that you gave to me this morning, we will mark as Odio Exhibit No. 1.

Mrs. Odio: He mentioned in the second paragraph, "You are very alone there in. Dallas. You don't have anybody, so please do not open your door to anybody that calls themselves my friends."

Mr. Liebeler: I have initialed the letter and I would like to have you put your initials under my initials for the purpose of identifying the exhibit.

Mrs. Odio: Yes, okay.

Mr. Liebeler: The letter is in Spanish, and you have underlined certain parts of it about three-quarters of the way down, in Spanish. Would you read that translation to us?

Mrs. Odio: "Please tell me again who it is that calls himself my friend. Be careful. I do not have any friends that have been near me lately, not even in Dallas. So do not establish any friendships until you give me their full names again."

Mr. Liebeler: Does he say their "full names" in there?

Mrs. Odio: Their full names again, which means I had given their war names.

Mr. Liebeler: So you must have given the name Leopold?

Mrs. Odio: He says, "You are very alone with no man to protect you, and you can be easily fooled." That is more or less what he says. We are 10 brothers and sisters, a big family, and this has been very sad for both of them.

I have little brothers in Dallas in an orphanage. We have been, were a very united family, and he is always worried about us being alone after I divorced.

He is still more worried, and he was always thinking that somebody could come in my door. He also had a thought that somebody could come by demanding money or something like that. You can probably have somebody who knows Spanish do a better translation.

Mr. Liebeler: This letter is dated December 25, 1963, is that correct?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: And it is dated Nueva Gerona. Where is that?

Mrs. Odio: The capital of Isle of Pines.

Mr. Liebeler: Your father is a prisoner there?

Mr. Liebeler: Are the prisoners permitted to write letters back and forth?

Mrs. Odio: One letter a month, on one side.

Mr. Liebeler: I would presume that the letters are read by Castro's men?

Mrs. Odio: They are all read. That is why I did not given him a lot of details. I managed to write very small so they would have a time reading it, like he does. You can see how perfectly he writes a letter.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, let me ask you how you managed to establish that these men come in late September. You previously stated that you couldn't remember the date exactly, but you had managed to establish it as being in late September. Would you tell me the procedure that you went through to establish that date in your mind?

Mrs. Odio: I told you my sister Annie was staying with some American friends. She did not live with me. She had gone to live with the Madlock's. And I called her many times to come and babysit for me during certain weekends, and she would come either on a Thursday or Friday, depending on when I called her.
I told her that day that I was going out, but I wanted 'her to start packing for me because we were moving over to Oak Cliff. It must have been the last days of September, because we had already packages in the living room. We had already started to pack to go, and we had to move by the first of October since my rent was due that day, you see.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, you did move?

Mrs. Odio: We did move the first of October to Oak Cliff.

Mr. Liebeler: What was the address of the apartment in which you lived before you moved to Oak Cliff?

Mrs. Odio: Over in, it was, I am almost sure of the number--1024 Magellan Circle. It is the Crestwood Apartments. I am not sure of the number; I think it is.

Mr. Liebeler: In any event, you were living at the Crestwood Apartments at the time these men came to your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: That's right. The Crestwood Apartments are full of Cubans.

Mr. Liebeler: You left the Crestwood Apartments as of the first of October and moved to Oak Cliff?

Mrs. Odio: That's right exactly.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, you are absolutely sure that these men came to your apartment before the first of October?

Mrs. Odio: Before the first of October.

Mr. Liebeler: It would have been sometime toward the end of September, because you recall that you had already started to pack to move from the Crestwood Apartments to Oak Cliff?

Mrs. Odio: The packages were in the living room, and Annie was helping me. She was actually taking things out of the closet when they came. It took a long time to be sure of that, but I am certain of that.

Mr. Liebeler: Have you discussed this with your sister, Annie?

Mrs. Odio: We had to, yes, sir; and she was convinced it was in late September. Because she had not come the previous week. For 2 weeks, she had not come, but had come the last week to help me pack and move.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you have a lease on your apartment, at the Crestwood Apartments?

Mrs. Odio: No; they don't take you by lease. You give a deposit, and you lose it if you move before 6 months.

Mr. Liebeler: Had you lived at the Crestwood Apartments 6 months?

Mrs. Odio: No. I have told you I moved several times, and it is because of reasons of my work, and because my children at the time were in Puerto Rico, I and I went down to get them in Puerto Rico June 29th.
That was exactly the day that I saw Ray again. We had been trying to establish a contact in Dallas with Mr. Johnny Martin, who is from Uruguay. He is from there, and he had heard that I was involved in this movement. And he said that he had a lot of contacts in Latin America to buy arms, particularly in Brazil, and that if he were in contact with one of our chief leaders of the underground, he would be able to sell him second-hand arms that we could use in our revolution.

I don't know if this is legal or illegal, I have no idea. But when he mentioned this fact, I jumped at the possibility that something could be done, because you kind of get desperate when you see your father and mother in prison, and you want to do something for them. So I called Eugenio long distance from Dallas.

Mr. Liebeler: When was that, approximately? Shortly after you came back from Puerto Rico?

Mrs. Odio: I think I can give you the exact date. This was before I left for Puerto Rico. June 28, Eugenio arrived from Miami to see Johnny Martin.

Mr. Liebeler: So you say that on June 28 Eugenio arrived from Miami, is that correct?

Mrs. Odio: He was supposed to have arrived June 14, but he never did, and I called-two times to make another appointment with Johnny, and he just arrived in time for me to see him. Then it was a time when we met, not Alentado, the other one, Alvareda--Rodriguez Alvareda.

So they went to my house. Now, I was living at the time at 6140 Oram Street, the day they arrived. But when I went back to Puerto Rico, the same day, June 29, I saw Ray, and I explained to him what Johnny Martin here in Dallas was up to, and then he said that he was planning a trip also to see if something could be worked out. Mr. Ray himself was planning a trip in connection with that. He was going to Washington to be interviewed by some high official.

Mr. Liebeler: But he was going to come by Dallas first?

Mrs. Odio: Yes. So I went to Ponce, Puerto Rico, to get my children, which were four of them, and I brought them back to Dallas. And this is when I moved to Magellan Circle to a bigger apartment, to the Crestwood Apartments.

Mr. Liebeler: You moved there, after you came back from Puerto Rico with your children?

Mrs. Odio: I moved there exactly the end of July, the end of the month, because I know when I moved, and then it was in August--let's see, I lived there July, August, and to the last day of September in this Magellan Circle, and then I moved to Oak Cliff.

Mr. Liebeler: You actually did meet with Eugenio here in Dallas before you went to Puerto Rico?

Mrs. Odio: Oh, yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Did Eugenio come to Dallas at any other time after that to meet you?

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: How many times have you met-with Eugenio here in Dallas?

Mrs. Odio: Once.

Mr. Liebeler: That was in June of 1963?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: So it was not Eugenio who was with Leon when those men came to your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: No; I would have known Eugenio. He was a very close friend of my family and he did underground activity with my mother and father.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you ever tell anybody that it was Eugenio who had come to the apartment with Leon?

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you know Father McKann?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you remember that he called you on the telephone?

Mrs. Odio: Yes; he did call me on the telephone.

Mr. Liebeler: On April 30, 1964?

Mrs. Odio: The date, I don't recall. Probably.

Mr. Liebeler: It was approximately the end of April or early May of 1964 when he called you from New Orleans?

Mrs. Odio: From New Orleans.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you remember discussing this whole question with him at that time?

Mrs. Odio: Yes. He asked me if I was withholding evidence of any kind.

Mr. Liebeler: What did you tell him?

Mrs. Odio: I told him that everything that I knew I had already told him, and that I didn't know anything else that I could recall that could be important to you.

Mr. Liebeler: The only time that you were ever interviewed by anybody in connection with this was when Agent Hosty came to your place of work that day, isn't that correct?

Mrs. Odio: That's correct. But three times I noticed a car standing in front of my door where I live on Lovers Lane. I don't know if it belonged to the Secret Service or the FBI, but I was kind of concerned about it.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you tell Father McKann that one of the men--did you tell him the names of the men who were there?

Mrs. Odio: I told him what I knew, the names of the men that I knew.

Mr. Liebeler: You told him one was Leopoldo?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: But you did not tell him that you could identify the other man as Eugenio?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: You did not tell him that?

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, I have a report before me of an interview with Father McKann by a representative of the U.S. Secret Service in which it states that Father McKann told this Secret Service agent that you had told him that one of the men was Eugenio. But you indicated now that that is not so?

Mrs. Odio: No. Perhaps he could have misunderstood me, because he has the same problems with names. Probably I did tell him that the man was not Eugenio.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you remember discussing with him Eugenio's visit to you in June?

Mrs. Odio: I think I discussed it with him, yes.

Mr. Liebeler: During that telephone conversation?

Mrs. Odio: Yes; I think I discussed it.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you tell Father McKann that the name Oswald was never used in your presence by any of these men?

Mrs. Odio: Never was used except to introduce me, and the time when they left. They did not refer to him as Oswald.

Mr. Liebeler: But they did in fact, introduce him as Leon Oswald?

Mrs. Odio: And I shook hands with him.

Mr. Liebeler: That is also what you told Agent Hoary when he interviewed you on December 18, 1963, and that is indicated in his report?

Mrs. Odio: Oh, yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, a report that we have from Agent Hosty indicates that when you told him about Leopoldo's telephone call to you the following day, that you told Agent Hosty that Leopoldo told you he was not going to have anything more to do with Leon Oswald since Leon was considered to be loco?

Mrs. Odio: That's right. He used two tactics with me, and this I have analyzed. He wanted me to introduce this man. He thought that I had something to do with the underground, with the big operation, and I could get men into Cuba. That is what he thought, which is not true.

When I had no reaction to the American, he thought that he would mention that the man was loco and out of his mind and would be the kind of man that could do anything like getting underground in Cuba, like killing Castro. He repeated several times he was an expert shotman. And he said, "We probably won't have anything to do with him. He is kind of loco."

When he mentioned the fact that we should have killed President Kennedy--and this I recall in my conversation he was trying to play it safe. If I liked him, then he would go along with me, but if I didn't like him, he was kind of retreating to see what my reaction was. It was cleverly done.

Mr. Liebeler: So he actually played both sides of the fence?

Mrs. Odio: That's right, both sides of the fence.

Mr. Liebeler: Did Leopoldo tell you that Leon had been in the Armed Forces?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: What did he tell you about that?

Mrs. Odio: He said he had been in the Marines. That is what he said.

Mr. Liebeler: Did he. tell you that Leon could help in the underground activities in which you were presumably engaged?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: Have you ever talked to Eugenio about this matter since it happened?

Mrs. Odio: No, I have not even contacted him.

Mr. Liebeler: Is your sister Annie in Dallas now?

Mrs. Odio: She is coming now the end of July.

Mr. Liebeler: She is not here now?

Mrs. Odio: No, she is coming from Florida. She is coming to live with me. She spent 6 months with my brother.

Mr. Liebeler: Can you tell us what her address is in Florida?

Mrs. Odio: Yes. She is in--wait 1 second--Southwest 82d Place, Miami, Fla.

Mr. Liebeler: How old were these two men that were with Leon?

Mrs. Odio: One of them must have been--he had a mark on his face like, I can't explain it--his complexion wasn't too soft. He was kind of like as if he had been in the sun. So he must have been about near 40, one of them.

Mr. Liebeler: Which one was that?

Mrs. Odio: But the other one was young. That was the tall one.

Mr. Liebeler: That was not Leopoldo?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Alentado was younger?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: How old was he, would you say?

Mrs. Odio: About 34, something like that.

Mr. Liebeler: Now how old would you say Oswald was? Did you form an opinion about that when you saw him at the time?

Mrs. Odio: No; I have never thought about it. I mean, I never thought how old he was. He seemed to be a young man. I mean, not an old man. I would say he was a young man; yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Could you say how old you thought he was after you saw him that day in your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: I can't say that. I can establish in my thoughts; yes, I could establish an age, but I didn't think of it at the time.

Mr. Liebeler: What age would you establish you thought about it?

Mrs. Odio: Oh, 34 or 35.

Mr. Liebeler: Have you read the newspapers and watched television since the assassination and observed Oswald?

Mrs. Odio: I read some of it.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you read how old he was?

Mrs. Odio: I don't even know what age he is.

Mr. Liebeler: About how tall was he?

Mrs. Odio: He wasn't too tall. He was maybe 4 inches taller than I am.

Mr. Liebeler: How tall are you?

Mrs. Odio: I am 5 feet 6 inches.

Mr. Liebeler: So you think he was about 5 feet 10?

Mrs. Odio: Probably.

Mr. Liebeler: About how was he built? Was he a heavy man or a light man?

Mrs. Odio: He was kind of a skinny man, because the shirt looked big on him, like it was borrowed.
Mr. Liebeler.

Like it was borrowed from somebody else?

Mrs. Odio: Yes; that is the impression he gave me, because it kind of hung loose.

Mr. Liebeler: Didn't fit well?

Mrs. Odio: It didn't fit.

Warren Report: Testimony of Sylvia Odio (Part 4)

Mr. Liebeler: Have you ever had anything to do with the DRE movement here in Dallas?

Mrs. Odio: Students Revolutionary Council, not at all.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you know any representatives of the DRE?

Mrs. Odio: I just knew one.

Mr. Liebeler: Who was that?

Mrs. Odio: Sarah Castilo. Now, I have heard about the directorate in New Orleans, because I have family there and they told me about all the incidents about him in New Orleans, about Oswald giving propaganda in the street and how he was down in front of a judge and caused a fight with Carlos Bringuier, and that, of course, this man had been working pro-Castro in this Fair Play for Cuba.

Mr. Liebeler: Oswald, you mean?

Mrs. Odio: Oswald.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you know Carlos?

Mrs. Odio: Yes; I have met him. I don't think he would remember me, but I know who Carlos Bringuier is. They call him Carlitos.

Mr. Liebeler: When did you meet him?

Mrs. Odio: I think it was a long time ago in Cuba, or I was introduced to him.

Mr. Liebeler: You have never met him here in the United States?

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: Who in New Orleans told you about this incident between Bringuier and Oswald?

Mrs. Odio: My family discussed it in New Orleans how he had been handed the propaganda. The other member of the directorate came along, and they had a problem with him, because they were taken in front of a judge. This was true.

Mr. Liebeler: Have you read about that in the newspapers?

Mrs. Odio: No; I haven't. This I know from my family, the information we heard from New Orleans.

Mr. Liebeler: How much of your family are living in New Orleans?

Mrs. Odio: I have an uncle and a cousin; a married cousin.

Mr. Liebeler: Which one of them told you about this?

Mrs. Odio: I think it was my uncle.

Mr. Liebeler: Were you there at that time?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: In New Orleans?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: What is your uncle's name?

Mrs. Odio: Agustin Guitar.

Mr. Liebeler: When was this that you discussed this with him?

Mrs. Odio: February.

Mr. Liebeler: In February of 1964?

Mrs. Odio: Yes. I remember that, because I had just come out of an operation.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you know a man by the name of Joaquin Martinez de Pinillos?

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you know Emanuel Salvat?

Mrs. Odio: I have heard about him very much. I know who he is, but I don't know him.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you associate him with one of the Cuban organizations, Salvat?

Mrs. Odio: If I have heard something about him, it has been attached to some organization.

Mr. Liebeler: You don't remember which one?

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: Would it be the DRE?

Mrs. Odio: I can't say for sure.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you know a woman by the name of Anna Silvera?

Mrs. Odio I have heard about her, too.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you have any idea how these three men came to your apartment? Have you ever thought about it and tried to establish any contact that they might have had with someone else that would have told them to come to your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: They were coming from New Orleans.

Mr. Liebeler: They came directly from New Orleans to your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: If it was true. It is very easy to find out any Cuban's in Dallas. Either you look in the phone book, or you call the Catholic Relief Service. If you say you are a friend of so and so, they will give you information enough. They will tell you where they live and what their phone number is and how to contact them.

Mr. Liebeler: But you have no actual knowledge as to how these men came by your address?

Mrs. Odio: I kind of asked them, and they told me because they knew my family. That is how they established the conversation. They knew him and wanted to help me, and knew I belonged to JURE and all this.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, can you remember anything else about the incident when Leon and the two men came to your apartment, or about the telephone call that you got from Leopoldo, that you haven't already told me about?

Mrs. Odio: No. If I have forgotten something, but I think all the important things I have told you, like the trip, that they were leaving for a trip. And this struck me funny, because why would they want to meet me, if they were leaving for some reason or purpose. And it has been a long time. You don't think about these things every day and I am trying real hard to remember everything I can.

Mr. Liebeler: Now is there anything else that you think we should know about that we haven't already asked you about in connection with this whole affair?

Mrs. Odio: No. It would be involving my opinion, but anything that is real facts of the thing, that really happened.

Mr. Liebeler: Is this the only time you ever saw the man called Leon Oswald?

Mrs. Odio: The only time.

Mr. Liebeler: Have you ever told anybody else that you have seen him other times?

Mrs. Odio: No, I don't think. It would be silly to withhold any information. I mean, the involvement was very slight, and look how much involved you get just from meeting him once. I have a pretty good idea who called the FBI.

Mr. Liebeler: About what?

Mrs. Odio: You see, I did not call the FBI to tell them this fact.

Mr. Liebeler: Why not?

Mrs. Odio: I was going to, but I had to get around to it to do it myself, because at the time everything was so confused and everybody was so excited about it, and I wanted to wait to see if it was important.

Mr. Liebeler: Who do you think called the FBI?

Mrs. Odio: Mrs. Connell, I think.

Mr. Liebeler: When you were interviewed by the FBI at your place of work, did you have any opinion about the way that interview was conducted?

Mrs. Odio: Yes. It brought me a lot of problems in my work. The two men were extremely polite and nice, the two gentlemen from the FBI. You know

Mrs. Odio: how people were afraid at the time, and my company, some officials of it were quite concerned that the FBI should have come to see me.

Mr. Liebeler: Have you discussed with Alentado these two men and how they came to see you?

Mrs. Odio: I never talked to him about it. I decided not to. mention anything after the FBI came to see me, because I thought they were going to contact him. I think I gave them the address and the telephone number.

Mr. Liebeler: You gave that to the FBI?

Mrs. Odio: Yes. He actually wouldn't know anything about it.

Mr. Liebeler: You say that because you asked these men if they had been sent by Alentado and they said no?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: Mrs. Connell that you refer to is Mrs. C. L. Connell, is that correct?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: How do you know her?

Mrs. Odio: It is a strange thing. Everything that has happened to me in the past year has been very strange. But I came from Ponce because I was mentally sick at the time. I was very emotionally disturbed, and they thought that a change from Puerto Rico to Dallas where my sister was would improve me, which it did, of course. And I was supposed to see Dr. Cowley in Terrell. He is a Cuban psychiatrist, but he was busy at the time and he couldn't help me. Mrs. Connell belonged to the mental health and at the time she had helped the Cuban group some because they had money, and I was introduced by my sister.

Mr. Liebeler: Which one?

Mrs. Odio: Sarita. She actually sent part of the money for my trip to come here to Dallas.

Mr. Liebeler: Mrs. Connell?

Mrs. Odio: Yes. So I met her. We became very, very close friends, extremely close, and she talked to Dr. Stubblefield and she got me a psychiatrist which was Dr. Einspruck. I was here 4 months before I went to get my children. We were close, like I said.

Mr. Liebeler: What makes you think she called the FBI about this?

Mrs. Odio: I am not certain of this, but I did discuss this with her after it happened, because I trusted her completely. I discussed it and told her that I was frightened, I didn't know what to do. I did not know if it was anything of importance that I should tell the FBI. And I was the only person--she was the only person I told.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you tell Dr. Einspruch about it?

Mrs. Odio: Yes; but the things you talk with a doctor in an office, he will tell you before that he is going to say it. He would have told me, "I am going to tell the FBI." You have to trust a doctor, especially a psychiatrist. I know they talked to him later, but I don't think it was him that called the FBI.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you tell Mrs. Connell that you had seen Oswald at some anti-Castro meetings, and that he had made some talks to these groups of refugees, and that he was very brilliant and clever and captivated the people to whom he had spoken?

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: You are sure you never told her that?

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: Have you ever seen Oswald at any meetings?

Mrs. Odio: Never. This is something when you talk to somebody, she probably was referring--we did have some meetings, yes. John Martino spoke, who was an American, who was very clever and brilliant. I am not saying that she is lying at all. When you are excited, you might get all your facts mixed up, and Martino was one of the men who was in Isle of Pines for 3 years. And he mentioned the fact that he knew Mr. Odio, that Mr. Odio's daughters were in Dallas, and she went to that meeting. I did not go, because they kept it quiet from me so I would not get upset about it. I don't know if you know who John Martino is.

Mr. Liebeler: Is that the same man as Johnny Martin?

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: A different one?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Who is he?

Mrs. Odio: Martino is one that has written a book called "I was a Prisoner in Castro Cuba," and he was on the Isle of Pines for 3 years. He came to Dallas and gave a talk to the Cubans about conditions in Cuba, and she was one of the ones that went to the meeting.

Mr. Liebeler: Mrs. Connell?

Mrs. Odio: Yes; and my sister Annie went, too.

Mr. Liebeler: Did Dr. Einspruch tell you that he had talked to the FBI?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: About this?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Did he tell you roughly what his conversation with the FBI was?

Mrs. Odio: He told me that they had asked him if I had hallucinations, that I was a person who was trying to make up some kind of story. That was the context of our story. I trusted Dr. Einspruch very much. He always told me the truth.

Mr. Liebeler: Did he tell you he had told the FBI that you did not have hallucinations and you had probably not made this up?

Mrs. Odio: Yes. Other people make it up, but--

Mr. Liebeler: Did Mr. Einspruch tell you he had discussed this question with some representatives of the President's Commission?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Did he tell you what that conversation was about?

Mrs. Odio: He told me that they had talked about an hour and a half about this whole thing, and he told them that he had already told me the whole facts of the thing, and he said let's not mention it any more. You know what we discussed. Don't be afraid.

Mr. Liebeler: Are you Still seeing Dr. Einspruch?

Mrs. Odio: No; I am through with therapy. He left.

Mr. Liebeler: He is no longer in Dallas?

Mrs. Odio: No; he left for Philadelphia for the U.S. Naval Hospital.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you tell Dr. Einspruch that you had seen Oswald in more than one anti-Castro Cuban meeting?

Mrs. Odio: No; I don't think so, because I have never seen him before except the day he came to the door.

Mr. Liebeler: You have never seen him since?

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: You told us before that you had a fainting spell after you heard about the assassination. Would you tell us about that, please?

Mrs. Odio: Well, 'I had been having fainting spells all the past year. I would pass out for hours, and .this was part of my emotional problems. I was doing quite well except that I had come back from lunch, and I can, not deny that the news was a great shock to me, and I did pass out. I was taken in an ambulance to a hospital in Irving.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you pass out as soon as you had heard that the President had been shot?

Mrs. Odio: No; when I started thinking about it.

Mr. Liebeler: Had you heard that Oswald was involved in it before you passed out?

Mrs. Odio: Can I say something off the record?

Mr. Liebeler: Yes. (Witness talks off the record.)

Mr. Liebeler: At this point let's go back on the record. You indicated that you thought perhaps the three men who had come to your apartment had something to do with the assassination?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: And you thought of that before you had the fainting spell?

Mrs. Odio: Yes. Of course, I have "psychiatric thinking." My psychiatrist says I have psychiatric thinking. I mean, I can perceive things very well.

Mr. Liebeler: What kind of thinking?

Mrs. Odio: He says I have tremendous intuition about things and psychiatric thinking, which has helped me many times. So immediately, for some reason, in my mind, I established a connection between the two greasy men that had come to my door and the conversation that the Cubans should have killed President Kennedy, and I couldn't believe it. I was so upset about it. So probably the lunch had something to do with it, too, and I was so upset, but that is probably why I passed out.

Mr. Liebeler: Had you heard the name Oswald before you passed out?

Mrs. Odio: No, sir. It was only the connection.

Mr. Liebeler: You had made the connection in your mind between these three men that came to your apartment, and the assassination?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Primarily because of the remarks they had made about how the Cubans should have assassinated President Kennedy because of the Bay of Pigs situation, is that correct?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: You had not seen any pictures of Oswald or heard his name prior to the time of your passing out?

Mrs. Odio: No; I don't recall--maybe you could tell me what the exact time they mentioned by the radio the name of the suspect. They spoke of a suspect all the time, but they did not mention any name. And I think I came out about 8 o'clock that night. They gave me a shot, so I did not know any name until that night.

Mr. Liebeler: What time did you pass out?

Mrs. Odio: I came back from lunch about 5 minutes before I o'clock, because we had to punch the clock at 1, and by 1:30 we knew the President was dead, and we all decided to leave, and it was about 10 minutes to 2 that we walked out of the office, and I think I passed out back in the warehouse.

Mr. Liebeler: Just after you left the office?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: So it would have been sometime before 2 o'clock or right after?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Did these men indicate that they had an come from New Orleans together?

Mrs. Odio: I am pretty sure that is what he said. Either that they had been, or that they had just come. I cannot be sure of either one, but they had been in New Orleans, or had just come from New Orleans.

Mr. Liebeler: Would you recognize these men again if you saw their pictures, do you think?

Mrs. Odio: I think I could recognize one of them.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you think they definitely took like Cubans?

Mrs. Odio: Well, this is my opinion. They looked very much like Mexicans. But I might be wrong at that, because I don't remember any Mexican accent. But the color of Mexicans, when I am referring to greasy, that kind of complexion, that is what I mean.

Mr. Liebeler: When did you first become aware of the fact that this man who had been at your apartment was the man who had been arrested in connection with the assassination?

Mrs. Odio: It was immediately.

Mr. Liebeler: As soon as you saw his picture?

Mrs. Odio: Immediately; I was so sure.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you have any doubt about it?

Mrs. Odio: I don't have any doubts.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you have any doubt about it then?

Mrs. Odio: I kept saying it can't be to myself; it just can't be. I mean it couldn't be, but when my sister walked into the hospital and she said, "Sylvia, have you seen the man?" And I said, "Yes." And she said, "That was the man that was at the door of my house." So I had no doubts then.

Mr. Liebeler: Would you recognize this man's voice?

Mrs. Odio: I don't know. I am not sure.

Mr. Liebeler: I show you a photograph that has been marked as Bringuier Exhibit No. 1, and ask you if you can identify anybody in that photograph?

Mrs. Odio: That is Oswald.

Mr. Liebeler: With the X?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you recognize anybody else in the picture?

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: I specifically call your attention to the man standing to Oswald's right, the second man behind him, who is facing the camera and has in his hand some leaflets.

Mrs. Odio: Does he have some glasses on?

Mr. Liebeler: The man that I just described?

Mrs. Odio: Does he have any glasses?

Mr. Liebeler: Let me see the picture.

Mrs. Odio: He has the same build that that man has in the back.

Mr. Liebeler: He has the same build?

Mrs. Odio: A lot of hair here [pointing to the right temple].

Mr. Liebeler: You are pointing to this man here?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: You say that his hair appeared to be pulled back in some way?

Mrs. Odio: One of them, Leopoldo, or the other one. One has very thick hair.

Mr. Liebeler: You are describing Leopoldo?

Mrs. Ohio: He had hair in front, but he has it pushed back in here.

Mr. Liebeler: Like sort of a bald spot in his front?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Excuse me just a minute, I will be back. Now, you have indicated that the individual standing immediately behind Oswald and to his left, actually in front of the door of this building might look something like one of the men that was in your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: That's right. That height and that tall.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, what about the man standing immediately next to him, so we have in the picture starting from the right, a head, and then a man standing in the opposite direction from Oswald, and then we have Oswald, and then we have the individual that you have just referred to about his pushed back hair, or the bald spot in the front, and then we have another man who has a group of leaflets in his hand.

Mrs. Odio: He looks familiar, but I don't think that was one of the men I saw there at the door. I don't know, Cubans sometimes have the same physique and everything, the narrowness of the shoulders. I mean the back looks something like this man I am telling you about.

Mr. Liebeler: But you are unable to identify positively anybody else in the picture other than Oswald?

Mrs. Odio: No; that's correct.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, I show you a picture that has been marked Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B, which appears to show a front view of the man with the bald spot, and I ask you if you recognize him as one of the men that was with Oswald in the apartment.

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: Are you sure that it was not, or you are unable to say?

Mrs. Odio: No; that man was thinner and a little taller than that picture.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, you are referring--

Mrs. Odio: I am referring to this man now.

Mr. Liebeler: You are referring to a man with the white shirt whose back is toward the camera?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: What about the man immediately behind Oswald?

Mrs. Odio: No; he was taller than that.

Mr. Liebeler: Let's refer to this as No. 1. Does it appear to you that the man who is standing sort of sideways to the camera immediately behind Oswald in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B is the same man as this man who is immediately behind Oswald and facing away from the camera in Bringuier Exhibit No. 1?

Mrs. Odio: No; it seems like a different back to me. Actually, possibly the same person, but for some reason, maybe the picture gives trim a slimmer look.

Mr. Liebeler: You keep referring in Pizzo's exhibit to the man whose back is to the camera with a white shirt?

Mrs. Odio: Yes; he came with a white shirt.

Mr. Liebeler: I am having trouble, because I first thought that this man here, who I will mark with the number 1 in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B is the same as the man who I will mark as No. 1 in Bringuier's Exhibit No. 1, but it appears that that is not so?

Mrs. Odio: No; this man is this man in the picture.

Mr. Liebeler: So we have established that No. 2 in Bringuier's Exhibit No. 1 is the same as the man marked No. 1 in Pizzo's Exhibit No. 453-B?

Mrs. Odio: Exactly.

Mr. Liebeler: And the man who we will mark 2 in Pizzo's Exhibit No. 453-B is the man marked 1 in Bringuier's Exhibit No. 1?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, as far as the man marked No. 1 in Bringuier's Exhibit No. 1 is concerned, you think when you see him there, that might look like the man who was in the apartment?

Mrs. Odio: He has the same build in the back, and same kind of profile, this side. Here he looks a little broader, and that is not him. It is the same man, but that wasn't the way Leopoldo looked.

Mr. Liebeler: So the man marked 2 in Exhibit No. 453-B, Pizzo, does not look like the man who was in your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: No.

Mr. Liebeler: You cannot in any event recognize the man who we shall mark 3 in ,both pictures; is that correct?

Mrs. Odio: Correct. Let me look at that man here [looking]. He wasn't one of them, but he looks so familiar to somebody, this one, the one that has his hand on his face.

Mr. Liebeler: You indicate that the man who we shall mark 4 in, Pizzo's Exhibit No. 453-B looks somewhat familiar?

Mrs. Odio: Somewhat familiar; yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, I Show you Pizzo Exhibit 453-A and ask you if you recognize anybody in that picture?

Mrs. Odio: Who is this man?

Mr. Liebeler: You are referring to the man who we shall mark 1 on Exhibit No. 453-A. Does he look familiar to you?

Mrs. Odio. The color of him looks familiar. That was more or less the color of that short man. He did not look real white.

Mr. Liebeler: Does it appear to you that the man we have marked 1 in Exhibit No. 453-A is an oriental?

Mrs. Odio: Is an oriental?

Mr. Liebeler: I don't know. Does it look like it to you?

Mrs. Odio: I don't know. I am just talking about the color of his face, the same color. Now he looks more familiar in this picture, you see.

Mr. Liebeler: When you say this, you point to the man who we will mark 2 in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-A, and he is the same man who is No. 2 in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B, and No. 1 in Bringuier's Exhibit No. 1? They all seem to be the same man, don't they?

Mrs. Odio: I think they are all the same man, but for some reason in this picture, he is wearing glasses, isn't he?

Mr. Liebeler: Well, it looks like it; doesn't it?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Did this man wear glasses who was in your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: He did?

Mrs. Odio: Didn't wear them all the time.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, do you recognize Oswald in any of these pictures; in Exhibit No. 453-A?

Mrs. Odio. [Pointing.]

Mr. Liebeler: You indicate the man with the green X over his head as being Oswald, and that is the man who was in your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: He looks a little bit fatter. I don't know if it is the picture. He looked thinner when he was in the apartment, than he looks in this picture. He was kind of drawn when he was there. His face was kind of drawn. But he looks more familiar there. He looks more like he looked that day.

Mr. Liebeler: In Exhibit No. 453-B, the man with the green line over his head looks more like the man that was in your apartment; is that correct?

Mrs. Odio: That's correct.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you have any doubt that that man with the green line over his head in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B Was the man who was in your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: Well, if it is not, it is his twin.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, I show you a photograph that has been marked Garner Exhibit No. I and ask you if you recognize that man.

Mrs. Odio: That is Oswald.

Mr. Liebeler: Is that the man who was in your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Are you sure?

Mrs. Odio: He doesn't have the little thing, the little moustache that he had that day. He looks shaved there, and he did not look shaved that day.

Mr. Liebeler: I show you Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-C and ask you if that looks like the man who was in your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: That is not the expression he had, but he has the same forehead and everything. But his lips, the only thing that confuses me is the lips that did not look like the same man. It is that unshaved thing that got me that day.

Mr. Liebeler: Does Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-C appear to you, does the man in that picture appear to be Somewhat unshaven, or similar to the one you saw in your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: I think he was not. The only thing he had not shaved was around where the mouth is, and everything else was shaved. That is way he looked, kind of clothes hanging on him.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you think this man in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-C is Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mrs. Odio: Yes; I think that is him.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you think that is the man that was in your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: Well, let me say something. I think this man was the one that was in my apartment. I am not too sure of that picture. He didn't look like this. He was smiling that day. He was more smiling than in this picture.

Mr. Liebeler: We have to put the pictures down on the record, because when somebody reads the record-- you say that he--

Mrs. Odio: He looks more relaxed in Exhibit No. 453-C. He looks more smiling, like Exhibit No. 453-B, or different countenance.

Mr. Liebeler: I have some motion pictures of the scene that we have been looking at here in these still pictures. These pictures that have been marked Exhibit Nos. 453-B and 453-C were taken from a movie that was made of that, and we also have on that movie a picture of Lee Oswald as he appeared on the television program in New Orleans on a sound track. I want you to look at those pictures and tell us after you have looked at the pictures if you think that man was the same man who was in your apartment.

I have not yet made arrangements for the projector to be set up, and there is an FBI agent bringing another picture over here from the FBI office that I want you to look at this morning before you leave. But I would like to have you--and I have another witness waiting for me, and I have nine more witnesses. Could you come back later this evening to look at the motion pictures? And in the meantime, I will have the Secret Service set up a projection room to view the films?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Why. don't we terminate momentarily now, and as soon as the FBI comes over, I will show you this picture, and I will call the Secret Service and find out when he can set up the viewing of this film, and I will tell You what time to come back.

Mrs. Odio: Since I am going to be downtown, do you want me to come back any special time?

Mr. Liebeler: I will tell you as soon as I talk to Mr. Sorrels.

Mrs. Odio: Before I leave?

Mr. Liebeler: I can't tell you before you leave. I will see if I can set up a time. When you say that these men came to your apartment in late September of 1963, can you give me your best recollection as to how long before the first of October they came? You moved out of your apartment in the Crestwood Apartments on the very last day of September; is that correct? Or can you. remember? Is there any way you can check that by finding out when you moved into your apartment in Oak Cliff?

Mrs. Odio: The day I moved, I had gone to work, so it must have been on a Monday or Tuesday. This man must have come by the end of the previous weekend.

Mr. Liebeler: I show you a 1963 calendar and point out to you that the last day of September was Monday.

Mrs. Odio: That is probably the day I moved.

Mr. Liebeler: Did you say that you also started working at a new job that same day?

Mrs. Odio: No, sir.

Mr. Liebeler: But you had been working on the day that you did move?

Mrs. Odio: I started working initially the 15th of September, because it was too far away where I lived in Irving. I started the 15th of September, I am almost sure of the 15th or the 9th. Let me see what day was the 9th. It was a Monday. It was the 9th, sir, that I started working at National Chemsearch.
(Special Agent Bardwell O. Odum of the Federal Bureau of Investigation entered the hearing room.)

Mr. Liebeler: This is Mr. Odum from the FBI. As a matter of fact, Mr. Odum was the man that interviewed you.

Mrs. Odio: I remember. He looked very familiar.

Mr. Liebeler: Now, you have indicated on the calendar, you circled the 30th of September, and you drew a line around the 26th, 27th, and 28th of September. Can you tell me what you meant by that?

Mrs. Odio: The 30th was the day I moved. The 26th, 27th, and 28th, it could have been either of those 3 days. It was not on a Sunday.

Mr. Liebeler: Now you indicated previously that Leopoldo called you the immediately following day after they had been there; is that correct?

Mrs. Odio: That's correct.

Mr. Liebeler: And you also testified, according to my recollection, that you had been at work on the day that Leopoldo called you; is that correct?

Mrs. Odio: Yes; it would be the 26th or the 27th for sure.

Mr. Liebeler: Would you work on Saturday?

Mrs. Odio: No; but he could have called me Saturday. But they would have come Thursday or Friday.

Mr. Liebeler: Thursday or Friday?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: Because you had been at work on the day they came?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: Do you remember whether you had been at work on the day that Leopoldo called you?

Mrs. Odio: I don't recall that.

Mr. Liebeler: You can't recall that?

Mrs. Odio: No. I know I was very busy with the kids, but I don't remember.

Mr. Liebeler: I show you a picture which depicts the same individual that is depicted in an exhibit which has previously been marked Commission Exhibit No. 237, and I ask you if you recognize that man.

Mrs. Odio: No, sir.

Mr. Liebeler: That is not the man that was with Leon when he came to your apartment?

Mrs. Odio: No. I wish I could point him to you. One was very tall and slim, kind of. He had glasses, because he took them off and put them back on before he left, and they were not sunglasses. And the other one was short, very Mexican looking. Have you ever seen a short Mexican with lots of thick hair and a lot of hair on his chest?

Mr. Liebeler: So there was was a shorter one and a tall one, and the shorter one was rather husky?

Mrs. Odio: He was not as big as this man.

Mr. Liebeler: Not as big as the man in Exhibit No. 237?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: Is that the man in Exhibit No. 237 that had a pushed back spot on his head?

Mrs. Odio: It was different. In the middle of his head it was thick, and it looked like he didn't have any hair, and the other side, I didn't notice that.

Mr. Liebeler: This was the taller man; is that right? The one known as Leopoldo?

Mrs. Odio: Yes.

Mr. Liebeler: About how much did the taller man weigh, could you guess?

Mrs. Odio: He was thin--about 165 pounds.

Mr. Liebeler: How tall was he, about?

Mrs. Odio: He was about 3 1/2 inches, almost 4 inches taller than I was. Excuse me, he couldn't have. Maybe it was just in the position he was standing. I know that made him look taller, and I had no heels on at the time, so he must have been 6 feet; yes.

Mr. Liebeler: And the shorter man was about how tall, would you say? Was he taller or shorter than Oswald?

Mrs. Odio: Shorter than Oswald.

Mr. Liebeler: About how much, could you guess?

Mrs. Odio: Five feet seven, something like that.

Mr. Liebeler: So he could have been 2 or 3 inches shorter than Oswald?

Mrs. Odio: That's right.

Mr. Liebeler: He weighed about how much, would you say?

Mrs. Odio: 170 pounds, something like that, because he was short, but he was stocky, and he was the one that had the strange complexion.

Mrs. Liebeler: Was it pock marked, would you say?

Mrs. Odio: No; it was like it wasn't, because he was, oh, it was like he had been in the sun for a long time.

Mr. Liebeler: Let's terminate now and we will resume when we show the film to you tonight.

Fabian Escalante, Cuban Officials and JFK Historians Conference (7th December, 1995)

They were going to demand that somebody would be a part of that new government to be established in Cuba and who would be better than Manolo Ray, who used to be a minister in that government. Manolo Ray, that was a person that didn't have good relations with the CIA. He was a social democrat. And it turns out to be that Silvia Odio belongs to the same group. So I could think that Oswald's presence, and Emilio Cordo might have some link to some involvement of JURE? as Castro agents... who is a Castro agent that later would kill Kennedy. So I think all these episodes have to be seen related one to another. For instance, I think the same way you... some of you do that Oswald was taken to a trap from the very beginning. But he was penetrating a Castro group that wanted to kill Kennedy. But I don't think that Veciana had anything to do with it. I think that people that had to do with that, are people in the DRE, but here I am just... using some technical... because when you are going to carry out an operation as complex as this one, you cannot put all your money in one single horse. You have to use different ways in order not to have any mistakes. And obviously, the DRE was in the whole plot against Cuba.

I found this post on alt.assassination.jfk:


Summaries of /quotations from FBI documents related to the subject.
How would this fit in with claims that Bernardo de Torres was one
of Silvia Odio's visitors?


AGENCY INFORMATION


AGENCY : FBI
RECORD NUMBER : 124-90012-10032


RECORDS SERIES : HQ
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 105-124552-1


DOCUMENT INFORMATION


ORIGINATOR : FBI
FROM : HQ
TO : MM
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 10/07/1963
PAGES : 2
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : BERNARDO ALVAREZ; MARIO BALDATI
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 06/12/1998
COMMENTS : MEMO;


This is a memo from FBI HQ to the Miami office
instructing them to check out the information in
an enclosed "CIA Information Report dated 9/27/63
captioned 'Plan to Bomb Ship.'"


"Check with CIA locally to determine if it has
operational interest in this matter. If CIA has
no operational interest, identify subject, check
logical sources, informants and individuals in
position to know for any indication that there is
substance to allegation. [...]"


AGENCY INFORMATION


AGENCY : FBI
RECORD NUMBER : 124-90012-10030
RECORDS SERIES : HQ
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 105-124552-1


DOCUMENT INFORMATION


ORIGINATOR : CIA
FROM : CIA
TO : [No To]
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 09/27/1963
PAGES : 2
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : BERNARDO ALVAREZ; PLAN TO BOMB SHIP
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 06/12/1998
COMMENTS : RPT


This is the CIA "Information Report" dated 27 September 1963.
It indicates the information was acquired in "UNITED STATES, MIAMI"
on "24-25 SEPTEMBER 1963". From the body of the report:


1. DAVID BROWN, A FREE-LANCE PILOT, SAYS THAT HE WAS


APPROACHED ABOUT 23 SEPTEMBER 1963 BY ONE OF A GROUP OF PILOTS


WHO MAKE THEIR HEADQUARTERS AROUND MIAMI INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT,


WHO REQUESTED BROWN TO CHARTER A B-25 AIRCRAFT ON BEHALF OF THE


GROUP. HE EXPLAINED THAT THE AIRCRAFT WAS TO BE USED FOR BOMB-


ING A SHIP THEN EN ROUTE FROM EUROPE, WHICH WAS SCHEDULED TO


ARRIVE IN CUBA ABOUT THE END OF SEPTEMBER OR 1 OCTOBER. THE


PILOT ALSO ASKED BROWN WHETHER IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO CHARTER


A C-46 AIRCRAFT TO TRANSPORT WEAPONS TO CENTRAL AMERICA; HE


ADDED THAT THIS PROJECT WAS CONNECTED WITH THE ACTIVITIES OF


LUIS SOMOZA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF NICARAGUA, AND THAT IT HAD


THE APPROVAL OF THE UNITED STATES STATE DEPARTMENT.


[page 2]


2. THE PILOT WHO MADE THE CONTACT WITH BROWN IS NAMED


MARIO BALDATI [sic]. HE IS AN ARGENTINE, RESIDENT AT 1231 SOUTHWEST


15TH STREET, MIAMI.


3. BROWN SAID HE LEARNED THAT WHEN AND IF THE B-25 WAS


OBTAINED, IT WOULD BE FLOWN TO PUERTO CABEZAS, NICARAGUA. THE


MISSION WAS TO BE LAUNCHED FROM THERE. BALDATI ALLEGED THAT


HIS GROUP HAS BOMBS AND RACKS, AND THAT AN AIRCRAFT IS THEIR


ONLY REQUIREMENT.


4. WHEN BALDATI CLAIMED THAT THE MISSION HAD BEEN CLEARED


WITH THE STATE DEPARTMENT, BROWN TOLD HIM THAT HE WOULD BE MORE


WILLING TO COOPERATE IF THIS WERE ACTUALLY THE CASE. BALDATI


ASKED WHETHER BROWN WOULD TAKE PART IF STATE DEPARTMENT APPROVAL


WERE WITHHELD, AND BROWN REPLIED, "WELL, IT WOULD COST YOU MORE."


5. HEADQUARTERS COMMENT: THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS NOT


GRANTED ANY SUCH APPROVAL.


6. FIELD DISSEM: NONE.


END OF MESSAGE


<end of excerpts>


Luis Somoza appeared at the National American Legion Convention
in Miami Beach on Sept 18, 1963.


AGENCY INFORMATION


AGENCY : FBI
RECORD NUMBER : 124-90012-10033


RECORDS SERIES : HQ
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 105-124552-2


DOCUMENT INFORMATION


ORIGINATOR : FBI
FROM : MM
TO : HQ
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 12/16/1963
PAGES : 4
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : BERNARDO ALVAREZ; MARIO OSCAR BALDATTI BRIEBA
CLASSIFICATION : SECRET
RESTRICTIONS : 1A
CURRENT STATUS : RELEASED WITH DELETIONS
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 06/12/1998
OPENING CRITERIA : APPROVAL OF CIA
COMMENTS : MEMO


This a memo from the Miami office to FBI HQ sent along with an LHM.
Excerpts follow:


Title Changed to reflect the complete name of subject according
to Spanish usage, that is MARIO OSCAR BALDATTI BRIEBA, and also the
name by which he is generally known, MARIO OSCAR BALDATTI, spelled
with double T.


[...]


On November 22, 1963, [redacted], CIA Agent at Miami, Florida,
advised he had been the contact of free lance pilot DAVID BROWN,
and that after the original allegation was received from BROWN the
latter was instructed to immediately contact CIA in the event
further developments took place in the alleged plan of subject
BALDATTI. Mr. [redacted] stated he had not been contacted again
by BROWN and he was relatively certain that the alleged plan had
not further materialized, at least as far as BROWN would be concerned.
Mr. [redacted] advised that his office had no objection to contact of
BROWN by FBI, Miami.


[...]


<end of excerpts>


AGENCY INFORMATION


AGENCY : FBI
RECORD NUMBER : 124-90012-10034
RECORDS SERIES : HQ
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 105-124552-2


DOCUMENT INFORMATION


ORIGINATOR : FBI
FROM : MM
TO : HQ
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 12/16/1963
PAGES : 8
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : BERNARDO ALVAREZ; MARIO OSCAR BALDATTI BRIEBA
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 06/12/1998
COMMENTS : LHM;


This is the LHM date Dec 16, 1963. INS records
indicated that Mario Baldatti "had been issued a
United States resident visa at Buenos Aires, Argentina
on March 21, 1962, and had arrived at Miami on April 10,
1962." He had been an aircraft radio navigator and had
visited the U.S. since 1958. "MM T-2", identified as
the local draft board in the previous document, indicated
Baldatti "was employed in an import-export business known
as the Maru Trading Corporation, at 404 Pan American Bank
Building, Miami, since April, 1962." Baldatti was
acquainted with Ruben Aversa and Richard Carpenter.
Further inquiry indicated that the Maru Trading
Corporation "had closed its office in the Pan American Bank
Building about five months ago."


Pages 5-7 of this LHM are an interview with pilot
David W. Brown conducted by Special Agent James J. O'Connor
on 12/5/63 at Miami. Brown said in 1961 Mario Baldatti
leased a B-25 from Brown which was flown to South America
and never returned. The lease was never fully paid.
In the summer of 1963, Brown ran into Baldatti at a car
dealership where Baldatti was working as a salesman. In
September, 1963, Baldatti arranged a meeting with Brown.


"Mr. BROWN continued that when he met BALDATTI at the
latter's house, three Cuban men were present, all of
whom appeared to be well educated and all of whom spoke
English. He said BALDATTI, however, appeared to be
spokesman for the group and outlined to BROWN a plan
involving the bombing of a ship carrying cargo to Cuba.


"Mr. BROWN stated that whereas he could understand
such a plot on the part of anti-CASTRO Cubans, he
formed the opinion that BALDATTI, an Argentine, with
no personal interest in the Cuban situation, was
interested primarily in making some quick and easy money
as a go-between for the Cubans.


"Mr. BROWN stated that this meeting at BALDATTI's
residence was followed a few days later by a second
meeting taking place in approximately the last part
of September, 1963, and again the same three Cubans and
BALDATTI were present. At this time it was indicated
to BROWN that the proposed target was not necessarily a
ship but anything they could hit in Cuba. It was also
indicated to BROWN that the aircraft which BALDATTI and
his associates desired to charter could be a C-46 type
aircraft or any plane that could carry the bombs. Also,
it was explained that the plane was to be delivered to
Costa Rica rather than to Nicaragua.


"Mr. BROWN stated the operation, as explained by
BALDATTI and the latter's associates, did not 'ring
true' in that the plan seemed to call only for a one
way flight, that is one in which the plane could not
carry a normal load and sufficient gasoline to fly round
trip from Costa Rica to Cuba, and furthermore, BROWN,
by his own experience in flying through Latin America,
was convinced Costa Rica would not permit such an
operation.


"An additional conflict in the alleged plan, according
to Mr. BROWN, was that the group claimed to have its own
pilots who had experience with Cuban airlines and Cuban
military planes, and yet BROWN was requested to check out
the pilots in the operation of the plane to be chartered.


"Mr. BROWN stated the three Cubans who were present at
BALDATTI's house were not pilots themselves. It appeared
that BALDATTI, acting as a middleman for the Cubans, had
convinced them he had the means whereby they could engage in
an operation against the Castro regime.


"Mr. BROWN stated he did not learn the names of any of
the Cubans involved. He said he was told by BALDATTI and
the Cubans that he would be recontacted concerning this
matter but no further contact has occurred.


"Mr. BROWN described the three Cuban associates of
BALDATTI as follows:


"#1 - about 28 years old, 6'1" tall, good looking, well
educated.


"#2 - about 40, 5'7", pock-marked face, sandy gray hair.


"#3 - about 38, 5'9" to 5'10", heavy build, wore Cuban
style glasses."


AGENCY INFORMATION


AGENCY : FBI
RECORD NUMBER : 124-90012-10036
RECORDS SERIES : HQ
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 105-124552-3


DOCUMENT INFORMATION


ORIGINATOR : FBI
FROM : MM
TO : HQ
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 04/09/1964
PAGES : 2
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : BERNARDO ALVAREZ; MARIO OSCAR BALDATTI BRIEBA
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 06/12/1998
COMMENTS : MEMO


This a memo from the Miami office to FBI HQ sent along with an LHM.


"The title is being marked changed to reflect the addition of
BERNARDO GONZALEZ DE TORRES ALVAREZ as a subject. DE TORRES stated
he is generally known as BERNARDO G. DE TORRES.


[...]


"In view of the lack of evidence that the subjects advanced
in their plan for bombing of ship to Cuba beyond preliminary
discussion and inasmuch as all known involved persons have
been interviewed without developing any evidence of neutrality
violation beyond the discussion, no further investigation is
contemplated by Miami."


AGENCY INFORMATION


AGENCY : FBI
RECORD NUMBER : 124-90012-10037
RECORDS SERIES : HQ
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 105-124552-3


DOCUMENT INFORMATION


ORIGINATOR : FBI
FROM : MM
TO : HQ
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 04/09/1964
PAGES : 11
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : BERNARDO ALVAREZ; MARIO OSCAR BALDATTI BRIEBA
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 09/16/1997
COMMENTS : LHM


This is the LHM. Ruben Aversa was interviewed on
March 23, 1964. He stated that he and Mario Baldatti
had worked for Transcontinental Airlines, an Argentine
firm which dissolved in 1961. He and Baldatti then set
up the Maru Trading Corporation which closed in April 1963.
Aversa had no knowledge of Baldatti's contacts with
Cubans.


Pages 3-7 are an interview of Mario Baldatti conducted by
James J. O'Connor on 3-25-64 at Miami. Baldatti "voluntarily
appeared" at the FBI office after Aversa told Baldatti about
the FBI interest in him.


"BALDATTI stated that during the summer of 1963, he was
employed at as an automobile salesman for the Dumas Milner
Chevrolet Company in Miami and in this connection, became
acquainted with MIGUEL ESCOTO, a car salesman for the
Abraham Ford Company, Miami. He said ESCOTO introduced him
to ESCOTO's brother-in-law, ARMANDO CALIS MENENDEZ, who is
a member of the 2506 Brigade which engaged in the Cuban
invasion of April 1961. He said CALIS on learning that
BALDATTI had been a radio navigator, suggested that BALDATTI
give instruction to members of the Brigade on such subjects
as communications and navigation.


"BALDATTI stated that this approach by CALIS occurred
about the same time that LUIS SOMOZA, former President of
Nicaragua, was visiting in the United States and reports
were appearing in the public press to the effect that
SOMOZA was supporting the establishment of a new anti-
CASTRO training operation in Nicaragua. BALDATTI said that
although no official announcement gave indication of U. S.
support to SOMOZA's offer of a training camp, the general
interpretation of the offer by Cuban exiles was that the
plan had U. S. support. BALDATTI explained that it was
under these circumstances that he agreed to give lectures
to members of the 2506 Brigade. He said he was introduced
to BERNARDO DE TORRES, who held an officer's position in the
Brigade.


"BALDATTI continued that as matters developed he never
gave any lectures primarily because of the lack of radio
equipment and training matter and because the officers of
the Brigade indicated they would postpone the lectures
until the prospect of a training camp in Nicaragua was
resolved.


"According to BALDATTI, BERNARDO DE TORRES about
September 1963, asked BALDATTI if he knew any pilot
at Miami who could obtain a bomber-type airplane for
use by the Brigade. BALDATTI said he again received
the impression that this request was related to the
establishment of a camp in Nicaragua through the
cooperation of LUIS SOMOZA and the U. S. Government.
He said he, therefore, made contact with a free-lance
pilot, DAVID BROWN, of Miami, Florida, whom he had known
as of 1961, when he, BALDATTI, was flying for the
independent company, Transcontinental Airlines in
Argentina.


"BALDATTI said he contacted BROWN and the latter
agreed to assist the Cuban associates of BALDATTI in
the matter of obtaining or ferrying an aircraft providing
the operation had the approval of the U. S. Government
and not otherwise. BALDATTI said it was then BERNARDO
DE TORRES requested BALDATTI to arrange a meeting in
BALDATTI's house at which the matter could be discussed.


"BALDATTI recalled that some time during September
1963, during the evening hours, pilot DAVID BROWN and
BERNARDO DE TORRES and two other members of the 2506
Brigade, whose names he could not recall, met at his
home and discussed the possibility of BROWN's obtaining
a B-25 or B-26 type airplane. BALDATTI said BROWN informed
the Cubans that it would be impossible to obtain this
class plane since the Cubans were interested in such a
plane in condition to carry out a bombing operation.
According to BALDATTI, the Cubans spoke about using the
plane for bombing a ship but this purpose was not definite
since they mentioned distances which would have
been beyond such a plane's flying radius. BALDATTI said
the plane was to be first taken to Nicaragua and the
mission flown from that country. He said the Cubans
did not want BROWN to participate in the bombing mission
but apparently wanted him only to obtain the plane and
possibly ferry it to Central America. He said they were
vague as to whether they wanted to rent of buy such a plane
and BROWN discussed with them the use of a regular cargo
type plane such as a C-46, since the Cubans indicated to
him that their primary interest was in flying to supplies
to Nicaragua.


"BALDATTI stated that there was only one meeting held
in his home between the Cubans and BROWN and the meeting
concluded with the advice by BROWN that when they knew
what they wanted and had the necessary authority from the
United States Government to ship supplies to Central
America he would be agreeable to assist them.


"BALDATTI stated that the Cubans never recontacted
him to arrange a second meeting with BROWN and he
presumes that the plan was dropped. He said he saw
BERNARDO DE TORRES once or twice following the meeting
of September 1963, and when he asked DE TORRES about the
plans involving the plane, DE TORRES told him contacts
were being made in Washington. BALDATTI stated he has
not seen DE TORRES since about November 1963.


[...]


"BALDATTI described BERNARDO DE TORRES as 33 to 34
years of age, 5' 11" tall, 155 pounds, black hair, large
dark eyes. He described the two Cuban associates of
DE TORRES, whose names he did not remember, as 35 to 40
years of age, 5' 9" tall, 150 pounds, and 37 years of
age, 5' 6" tall, 170 pounds. He said these three all
spoke English although DE TORRES was the most fluent of
the three."


Pages 8-10 are an interview of Bernardo G, Torres
conducted on 4-3-64 by James J. O'Connor at Miami.
De Torres had come to the U. S. on January 3, 1955,
and had worked for the Ford Motor Company in Dearborn,
Michigan, but was now unemployed.


"DE TORRES stated he had engaged with Cuban exiles
in the Cuban invasion of April 1961 and had been taken
prisoner in Cuba and subsequently returned to the
United States on December 24, 1962, as one of the
ransomed prisoners. He said he is an active member
of the 2506 Brigade, an organization of former members
of the Cuban invasion forces and he holds the position
of Military Coordinator in that anti-Castro organization.


"It was pointed out to DE TORRES that information had
been received that he and other Cuban associates in
approximately September 1963, had discussed plans at the
home of an Argentinian named MARIO BALDATTI together with
an American pilot named DAVID BROWN to undertake a
bombing mission against Cuba or a ship carrying cargo to
Cuba. DE TORRES stated such a discussion had, in fact, taken
place but he would not furnish any details of such plans.
He said it was apparent to him that there was a "chivato",
that is, an informer, in the ranks of the 2506 Brigade
that this information should have been divulged.


"DE TORRES stated that although he is a permanent
president of the United States and considers himself
loyal to the United States, he cannot and will not cease
his efforts to fight Communism in Cuba. He stated that
since Cuba is the land of his birth and members of his
family still live there, he feels compelled to fight
against CASTRO. He said that even though such efforts
might involve violation of laws of the United States,
he would not cease such efforts. He said that he did
not think that he would be imprisoned in the United
States for any violation of any neutrality even if he
were proven guilty of such a violation because the
United States is also committed to the fight to overthrow
CASTRO and would be embarrassed to incarcerate anyone for
participating in the same fight. DE TORRES stated the
support of the United States to the Cuban invasion of
April 1961 and its support to the movement of Cuban
exile leader, MANUEL ARTIME, in Central America are two
events which preclude prosecution of Cuban exiles for
violation of neutrality. DE TORRES said it is general
information among Cuban exiles at Miami that MANUEL ARTIME
and members of his organization Movimiento Revolucionario
de Recuperacion (MRR - Revolutionary Recovery Movement) are
receiving U. S. assistance in some manner in connection
with the establishment of training camps in Central
America.


"DE TORRES stated that the plan to use an airplane
to bomb a ship enroute to Cuba or to bomb Cuba itself,
is not presently pending but neither has the idea been
abandoned. He said he and other members of the 2506
Brigade have a dozen different plans for action against
Cuba but at present they lack the financial and material
resources to take such actions.


"DE TORRES refused to identify his associates in the
discussion which he had in September 1963, with BALDATTI
and DAVID BROWN.


"The following description of DE TORRES was obtained
during interview:


Age: 30
Born: [...], 1934, in Santiago
De Las Vegas, Havana
Province, Cuba
Height: 6' to 6' 1"
Weight: 157
Hair: Black, straight, thin on top
Eyes: Dark brown, large
Complexion: Olive
Brother: CARLOS DE TORRES, employed
by private international
detective agency, telephone
[...]"


AGENCY INFORMATION


AGENCY : FBI
RECORD NUMBER : 124-90012-10041
RECORDS SERIES : HQ
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 105-124552-NR


DOCUMENT INFORMATION


ORIGINATOR : CIA
FROM : CIA
TO : HQ
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 05/18/1964


PAGES : 1
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : BERNARDO ALVAREZ; BERNARDO GONZALEZ DE TORRES
ALVAREZ
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 06/12/1998
COMMENTS : RPT


This is a CIA biographic data form on "Bernardo Gonzalez de
TORRES-ALVAREZ", with stamps stating "FBI interposes no objection to
proposed contact interrogation of captioned individual" and "If
interrogation of subject results in receiving of interest to FBI, we would
appreciate being advised".

Additional ideas about Angel and Leopoldo in the Odio visit.

From AJ Weberman's site.

"Sylvia Odio told the FBI that one of the men who visited her with OSWALD had odd hair, full in the middle, and short on the sides. When Richard Whatley visited Dick Hathcock, one of his associates had a "Mohawk style haircut." The visit occurred in July 1963. By September 1963, this man's hair would have grown in somewhat and would be full in the middle and short on the sides. When Gaeton Fonzi worked for Senator Richard Schweiker, Fonzi followed-up the Mohawk haircut lead. Dick Hathcock told him that he could not recall the names of the other two men who were with Richard Whatley: "But he does think now that the fellow with the Mohawk haircut was Latin looking. When I asked him if Angelo or Leopoldo could have been either of the names, he said he couldn't swear to it under oath but Leopoldo 'strikes a vague cord. It does sound quite familiar.'" Sylvia Odio was the Subject of an FBI investigation in New York City in 1965. [FBI 105-135351-6] Sylvia Odio testified before the HSCA: "Leopoldo was tall. The thing I remember the most was his forehead, which was bald on the side, had hair right in the middle. I think later on it has been like identified like a Mohawk haircut. He had little glasses...I probably said something to the effect that [Kennedy should be killed], that the Cubans felt this also...I was worried because when the Cubans say something like that, it is natural..." HEMMING told this researcher: "Bobby Willis was the guy with the Mohawk haircut. But this was in 1961. He was not the one who visited Sylvia Odio. I know who one of them was. When Whatley visited Hathcock with the guy with the Mohawk it was 1962. I was there asshole, don't fucking argue with me. It was not 1963. They showed up in California in the early part of 1962. I left Miami after New Years 1962 and went to California for a couple of weeks. They followed me out there. At that point in time Willis had a Mohawk haircut. They stayed in the back of a barber shop in Monterey Park, California. While Whatley was there he was visiting his buddy at Nature's Haven, where his lion was."

For what it's worth. Gaeton Fonzi was looking at the 'Mohawk' haircut individual as a potential lead, at least at one time. I would also suggest reading Odio's WC Testimony as an original point of reference.

Also, in The Man Who Knew Too Much, by Dick Russell, (which is one of my Top 5 Books) Nagell mentions "one of the two Cubans who were associating with Oswald in August and September 1963....was seen entering the 'ON THE BEACH BOOKSTORE' on two separate occasions."

Vaughn Marlowe was the proprietor of the bookstore, and the bookstore was in Venice, California. I do not know if he is still alive, maybe Dick Russell would know, or have some thoughts on the matter.

Does anybody have Silvia Odio's 1963 phone number at the Crestwood Apt's, on Magellan Circle? If so could you please email me or post it on this thread?

Here is an interesting passage from John Newman's, Oswald and the CIA (1995):

On September 10, 1963, Special Agent Hosty sent a report on Oswald to the Bureau and to New Orleans. It was the first FBI document to make it into Oswald's CIA files since the Fain report of August 30, 1962. Hosty began by acknowledging Oswald's Magazine Street address, an address everyone else in the FBI had known about for a month. Hosty then said Oswald had been working at the William Reily Coffee Company on August 5. He apparently did not know that Oswald had been fired from his job at Reily Coffee on July 19.103 Hosty did mention the April 21 Oswald letter to the FPCC from Dallas. It would appear, however, that he did not know about Oswald's arrest in New Orleans or chose for some reason not to say anything about it. Hosty did not know about the Quigley jailhouse interview.

On Monday, September 23, the employees at CIA headquarters were still catching up on the weekend's traffic when Hosty's report arrived under FBI director Hoover's signature. It was 1:24 in the afternoon when someone named Annette in the CIA's Records Integration Division attached a CIA routing and record sheet to the report and sent it along to the liaison office of the counterintelligence staff, where Jane Roman was still working. As discussed in Chapter Two, Roman received the first phone call from the FBI about Oswald on November 2, 1959.

When Jane Roman got the Hosty report, she signed for it and, presumably after having read it, determined the next CIA organizational element to whom it should be sent. The office she chose was Counterintelligence Operations, CI/OPS. The telltale "P" of William ("Will") Potocci, who worked in Counterintelligence Operations, appears next to the CI/OPS entry, along with the date that Roman passed the report on to him-September 25. Potocci presumably worked in this office, although something on the routing sheet-probably Potocci's name or some activity indicator in CU OPS-is still being withheld by the CIA.

CIA readers of the Hosty report were treated to the outlines of the story we have followed in this and the previous three chapters: how Oswald had returned from Russia to Fort Worth, Texas, where he subscribed to the communist newspaper the Worker, and then moved to New Orleans, where he took a job in the Reily Coffee Company; most important, the CIA learned that on April 21 Oswald, having moved from Fort Worth to Dallas, contacted the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New York City. The report also recounted Oswald's claim to have stood on a Dallas street with a placard around his neck that read "Hands Off Cuba-Viva Fidel."

The CIA did not put this report into Oswald's 201 file, but instead into a new file with a different number: 100-300-11. We will return to that file in Chapter Nineteen. Even as the Hosty report made its way from Jane Roman to Will Potocci, an FBI agent in New Orleans was preparing yet another report on Oswald that would arrive at the CIA on October 2. This, as we will see, was the very day that Oswald, having spent five nights in Mexico City, departed from the Mexican capital.

On his way from New Orleans to Mexico City, Oswald is reported to have visited the home of Silvia Odio in Dallas. The Odio "incident," as it has become known with the passage of time, was labeled by researcher Sylvia Meagher as the "proof of the plot," because the Warren Commission accepted that Odio was visited by three men-one of whom was "Oswald." Meagher's point was that whether it was an impostor or Oswald himself, as Odio believes, the group that visited her apartment and phoned her afterward, and their pre assassination discussion of killing Kennedy, is awkward, if not antithetical, for the lone-nut hypothesis. The Warren Commission accepted that the event occurred, but dismissed Odio's version of it. First, the commission found that a September 26 or 27 visit was not possible given Oswald's time requirements for arriving in Mexico City at ten A.M. on September 27.

Second, the Warren Commission believed it had identified the three men who visited Odio: Loran Eugene Hall, Larry Howard, and William Seymour, who was "similar in appearance to Lee Harvey Oswald." All three were soldiers of fortune involved with the Cuban exiles. Hall was a self described gun runner." As discussed in Chapter Fourteen, Seymour was an associate of Hemming's.

Both of these Warren Commission contributions damaged the public's understanding of the facts in the case and the public's confidence in the integrity and objectivity of the Commission's work. The Hall-Howard-Seymour story, supplied by the FBI just in time to save the Warren Report - on its way to press - the embarrassment of not having discredited Odio's version of the incident, later turned out to be wholly fraudulent. No official connected to the Warren Report has ever apologized to the public or Silvia Odio for their shabby treatment of her and their acceptance of a concocted story, an egregious error given what was at stake.

In spite of this, strong feelings about the Odio incident remain. Silvia Odio is "full of hot air," FBI special agent Hosty said in a recent interview. Hosty did not elaborate further about the meaning of this remark, but he offered an interesting variation of the Hall and Seymour part of the story: "Hall told us [the FBI] that it was he who had been by Odio's. When the police arrested Hall they talked to Heitman." Special Agent Heitman, Hosty says, was the FBI agent "who worked among the Cubans. I was working the right wing extremists, like General [Edwin] Walker, etc." After Hall told the authorities he had visited Odio, Hosty claims, "Seymour threatened him and so he changed his story." Hosty's account also raises the possibility that William Pawley might have been involved.

"I knew of him," Hosty said of William Pawley in a recent interview."' As discussed in Chapter Seven, Pawley was working for the CIA in Miami, reporting on the Cuban situation through an extensive network of contacts. Hosty told researcher Dr. Larry Haapanan in 1983 that he thought the men who visited Odio might have been agents working for Pawley. In 1995 Hosty contacted the author, and in a follow-up interview he said, " It could be Pawley. H. L. Hunt was backing Pawley's people, and they were also getting support from Henry Luce. It could be that Pawley's guys spying on JURE (Junta Revolucionaria Cubana, led by Amador Odio]. They could have been working for Pawley or one of the other splinter groups.

The possibility that on September 25, Pawley and his right wing anti-Castro allies were using Oswald and his cohorts to collect information on the left wing JURE faction led by Silvia's father (then in one of Castro's prisons) is intriguing. It only further magnifies what the Warren Commission feared about the rest of the Odio story: It fits into the lone-nut hypothesis like a two-by-four in a Cuisinart.

Based on my view of the Odio testimony, which I consider very reliable, I can not believe that anyone else visited the Odio house except Lee Harvey Oswald. I base this on the reaction of the Odio sisters, as they saw Lee Oswald as the man accused of killing the President.

William Seymour looks about as much like Lee Harvey Oswald, as any other dude.

AS to who could have been with him, I don't know. Howard and Hall are good guesses, but I do also rely on Sylvia's testimony that the individuals were "Mexican". As to the time line of events (Lee could only be in one place at one time, either Lee travelled back from Mexico to be at the Odio house on time on September 27th, 1963 or he never went to Mexico in the first place.

As I recall the CIA photos of Lee Oswald in Mexico didn't quite add up either.... furthermore, paper evidence aside, do we have any relaible positive ID's of Lee Oswald in Mexico City?

Well, my bets are still on Morales and Diosdado.

Wim

I have just found a recently declassified CIA document that states that Frank Sturgis/Frank Fiorino used the name "Angelo".

At the risk of self immolation by advocating A.J. Weberman's treatment of the Silvia Odio/JURE/Mr. Martin issue, I will simply state that he makes some pretty informative observations as to what was obfuscated regarding that rather complex set of circumstances, re the backdrop of assassination politics behind determining the true identities of the three persons at the Odio's in Sept. 63, if memory serves correctly he surmises the Juan Martin mentioned was perhaps not a Dallas resident after all, but I am going by memory.

To try to get to the bottom of the Angelo and Leopoldo ID's has been a great example of a Who's on First type of situation.
To say that there are different opinions is stating the obvious.
There are a couple of points that should be raised that have not been mentioned before, at least on the Education Forum, as far as I know.
Who would have known beyond a shadow of a doubt.....
One candidate would seem to be James Hosty, after all he was the FBI man who had a certain amount of responsibility for Oswald before the assassination, Hosty's book, in my opinion, offers nothing definitive in regards to resolution to the Angelo and Leopoldo conundrum.
To the best of my knowledge, not only has the historical trail of Juan Martin seem to have petered out, but his "interview" by James Hosty, if I am not mistaken, consists of one paragraph; also when Hosty interviewed "Juan Martin" although he had been mentioned by Odio as a gunrunner, Hosty asked no questions about this at all.
I have picked up what is a, more than interesting factoid regarding this issue....as referenced below
"Interestingly, in later years, FBI agent Hosty would comment to one researcher that he suspected the visitors to Sylvia Odio's were "Pawley's people," engaged in some sort of action against JURE."
See page 338, Someone Would Have Talked - 2006
There is one item I wanted to mention about a peripheral matter indirectly related to this incident, Peter Dale Scott, years ago speculated that perhaps Juan Martin was really John Martino; The reason I mention this is that I have tried to determine if "Juan Martin" ever was documented in HSCA and ARRB related documents, as in an interview or deposition.
The idea of such a deception would certainly add to the collection of individuals of importance which were mentioned in the Warren Report and supporting documents whose names were apparently deliberately mispelled in order to avoid revealing any linkages that would lead to a deeper comprehension of certain underlying truths....
Additionally, another JURE member gave a name for Juan Martin's laundromat that did not appear in the 1964 Dallas Telephone Directory.

In Larry Hancock's, "Someone Would Have Talked", Exhibit 1-21 is an HSCA memo from Belford Lawson to Ken Klein. It concerns information on John Martino received from an anonymous informant named "Fred"* who said he was associated with Martino through the "import export" business. "Fred" lived in Fort Worth.
Lawson could never call "Fred" back because "Fred" would only call him from pay phones.
* Robert- I am reasonably certain this was Fred Claasen.


Harold Weisberg ventured into this area long before some of us were born. He offered up perhaps the most unusual analysis of this whole affair, he mentioned the names of Alonzo Escurido and Captain Leodorino Interian as possibly the real Angelo and Leopoldo. I am not certain why Weisberg maintained this belief, but I believe Weisberg's work is definitely relevant even today. Although Weisberg referenced Interian as Leovino......
See Oswald In New Orleans: Case of Conspiracy with the CIA pages 266 and 390, by Weisberg, Harold (1967)
Below is a link for Leodorino Interian.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...do?docId=101624



Peter Dale Scott relates that not only did John Martino know R.D. Matthews via their time working at the Hotel Deauville casino, but that Martino also knew Frank Sturgis and, of course it is documented John Martino was in Dallas in September 1963. Not only that but Martino told a friend that he met Jack Ruby a couple of times.
See pages 117-120, Deep Politics and The Death of JFK.

Robert,

I agree that there should be more on "Juan" Martin, the Uraguan gun dealer.

I don't doubt that John Martino also used the name "Juan Martin" at sometime, but I think they're two different people.

Also, came across this and thought it interesting:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...c.do?docId=6615

BACKGROUND DATA ON "ANGELO"

BK

File this post under serendipity.......
There are obviously so many documents to go through between the 26 Volumes of the Warren Commission and the declassified files that an attempt to obscure pertinent facts can be a relatively simple thing to do, I did run across an interesting fellow.


104-10274-10042...March 24, 1961
AMBANG 1 WIFE ADVISED LATE 23 MAR MRP* REP JUAN P MARTIN MORAN ENGINEER MINISTRY PUBLIC WORKS
STOWAWAY ABOARD TURKISH VESSEL “FATISH”
Ambang-1 advised late 23 March MRP Rep. Juan P Martin Moran Engineer Public Works arrived Houston, Texas
Accompanied by one .... [FNU]
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2
Interestingly enough in Jack Ruby's old memo book, he had listed the Name and phone number of Sandra Moran
See WC Vol 19, p. 75; WC Vol 22, p. 520


In Thomas Edward Beckham’s Grand Jury testimony in New Orleans by District Attorney Garrison’s office, Beckham was asked about another Jack Martin, besides the Jack Martin who had worked in Guy Bannister’s office, as well as Goldonna, Louisiana.
Question. ........We have already gone into Jack Martin. Do you know another party by the name of Jack Martin?
Beckham: I know Joe Martin.
Question: Have you ever been to Goldonna, La.
Beckham: I went to a lot of small towns, but that name doesn’t sound right
See
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=146

Recently I discovered that in the Book The Armies of Ignorance - William Corson, that the CIA implemented a dossier analysis of President-elect Kennedy to determine how he would react in certain situations, tendencies, ie.....Garrison discusses this in On The Trail of The Assassins page 69; I dont have Corson’s book I only know of it from Jim Garrison’s mention of it.

James H. Meek independent oil operator who lived on Turtle Creek Blvd. died on Friday, November 22, 1963
This is recorded in the Dallas Times Herald of November 23, 1963.

Also from the same edition was this article:
Man Injured In Shooting
“A 24 year-old West Dallas man was in serious condition Friday morning
with a gunshot wound he said he suffered when two Negroes opened fire
on the car in which he was riding after curbing it at Singleton and Winne-
tka.
Methodist Hospital attendants identified the victim as Joe Jesse Medrano
of 3610 Singleton.
Police said, Medrano, Juan Velasco, 25, 3418 Odessa and Mario Gonzalez,
26, 3610 Singleton were occupants of a car driven by Fernando Rodriguez,
24, of 3604 Bedford.
The men told police the gunmen’s automobile began crowding them, about
midnight as they drove into the 1700 block of Singleton. The men said
they stopped their car and Medrano got out to be met by five shots from the
other car which had pulled up behind them. After firing their shots, one of
which struck Medrano in the right chest, the gunmen sped away.

Could there possibly have been a connection with the bungled Terrell Armory incident?

WHITTER, DONNELL DARIUS
Sources: CD 847; Arrest Report of Dallas Police Department 11/18/63; Dallas Morning News, Tuesday, 11/19/63, p. 1-A; Houston Post, 11/14/93, p. A-1; 14 pgs being withheld - Record No. 180-10071-10289 - Agency File No. 010223 (FBI)
Mary's
Comments: DOB: 5/30/20. Wife: Mary. Driving 1962 Thunderbird, HD5095, with Lawrence Reginald Miller as a passenger when arrested 11/18/63 at Gaston and Hall, Dallas, and held on suspicion of robbing National Guard Armory near Terrell, TX. Had been attendant at V.E. Morallis Texaco Service Station and had "waited on" Jack Ruby.
Distance between Singleton and Winnetka and Gaston and Hall Street is 4.1 miles
See
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

Oswald look-a-like at The Lawrence Hotel the night before the assassination; remember the other Oswald that was on Industrial Blvd., the morning of the assassination
Commission Document 7 - FBI Gemberling Report of 10 Dec 1963 re: Oswald
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=763


Robert: And here is the Joke of the Day
LETR RE WEST GERMAN INTELL INVESTIGATION
investigator reporting to Reinhard Gehlen feels there is no manner of futher clarifying the matter of whether Anton Ehrdinger did have prior knowledge of Oswald before the assassination
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2


And I saved the most interesting section at the end...
The Other Oswald after leaving the Depository
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=100
The light-colored Rambler station wagon that was seen with someone who was practically a double for Lee Harvey Oswald passed under the triple-underpass at 12:40 P.M.
A few blocks beyond that overpass is the Commerce Street Viaduct, leading directly into Oak Cliff. It is practically certain that after the Rambler with an unknown driver and a “Oswald impostor” left the Depository it crossed the viaduct, and after turning left on Sylvan Street drove 12 blocks further going south on Davis St. Three blocks away was the Tidy Lady Launderette. The drive from the Texas School Book Depository, would have taken 7 or 8 minutes. It is at the launderette where the car stopped. It would have been within a minute or so of 12:47 P.M.
The Tidy Lady (1227 Davis) was at the corner of Davis St and North Clinton St. There were only two people in the laundromat, at that time John Wesley and Oda Pennington. The car with the two fugitives parked on the east side of North Clinton St., by the side door of the laundromat. The young man who exited the car passed the laundromat and then turned around and entered, making a beeline towards the payphone. A brief pause and the Pennington’s heard the caller speaking in Spanish, in the FBI report, the Pennington’s felt that the man acted as if he was in trouble, under the circumstances, the Pennington’s were no doubt, accurate in their were perception. What happened to the driver is not certain but he may have left the scene as soon as he parked the car, which is what the Oswald impostor did as soon as he finished his call. He was last seen walking South on North Clinton St.
The car had been abandoned. When the couple were shown a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald, they said he “appeared” to be the same person.
Just as compelling is how close the laudromat was to Jefferson Street, the location of the Texas Theater, and on the other side of Jefferson St. in the distance was the apartment of Jack Ruby. The Tidy Lady Lauderette on Clinton Street was only five blocks south away from Jefferson Street.
paraphrased from pages 831-832 Harvey and Lee - John Armstrong
So if you are trying to ascertain if another person was "in play" on Jefferson Street besides Lee Oswald, this scenario definitely seems pertinent. End of account. Yes....End of story? Definitely not.

There was also a Clarence Otis Pennington in W. Virginia who was interviewed by the FBI, at this point it is not known whether the individual Oda Pennington was related to Clarence Pennington. However there is a very sophisticated genealogy website and Family organization named Pennington Research Association, that almost without question makes mention of an C.O. Pennigton and “his wife Ida!”......If you surmised that the Pennington’s are interesting you would be right....
http://praresearch.blogspot.com/search/lab...itary%20Records
25 hits at NARA as of 7/24/09 under simple search under last name Pennington
http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/27799/jfksnew.txt
There is another Pennington, probably C.H. Pennington who was a member of the Alien Affairs Staff who is listed in some of the hits in the From and or To Fields. None of these documents appear to be still classified.
[see 104-10260-10095]
TELEPHONE CALL FROM MR. PENNINGTON , ALIEN AFFAIRS STAFF, CONCERNING POSSIBLE POSITION OF IMMIGRATION ON MARCOS DIAZ LANZ' APPLICATION FOR PERMANENT RESIDENT VISA
also 104-10130-10149

Siragusa is mentioned in Douglas Valentine's The Strength of the Wolf: The Secret History of America's War on Drugs.

<quote on>

Joined the Federal Bureau of Narcotics before the Second World War; protege of George White; served in the OSS; group leader in New York; opened the FBN's first overseas office in Rome in 1951; became the FBN's liaison to the CIA in 1959 when he returned to Washington as field supervisor; competed with Giordano to replace Anslinger as Commissioner, served as Deputy Commissioner until his retirement in December 1963.

<quote off>

See:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=Bed0gQKn-u...ary_r&cad=0

Has anyone here read Valentine's book?

Regards,
Peter Fokes,
Toronto