here is a photo of Raoul taken from a line-up given to people to identify the man named Raoul who james earl ray says handle him and set him up.
it has been theorized before that Raoul is Frenchy the short tramp.
The photo was taken in 1960 so he would not have changed much in 3 years. There is a possibility that it was him as he has indeed been proven a part of the MLK assassination which involved H.L. Hunt, J edgar Hoover, Percey Foreman (as lawyer for James earl ray) and others also connected to the JFK assassination.

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that he was involved in both.

After all Gerry Hemming says that the man identified at the soviet embassy impersonating oswald in mexico Saul Sague was also involved in the MLK assassination.

Mr.Hemming also tells me that Raouls real name was Robert Emmet Johnson.

Any specualtion would be appreciated.
john

At the time of the MLK assassination, I recall a photo published in the Louisville, KY courier-Journal of the alleged assassin, that stuck with me because of its LACK of resemblance to James Earl Ray, upon his eventual capture. Years later, I saw this same photograph elsewhere...it was the Mexico City "Oswald" photo, later ID's as Saul Sague/Saul Sage. My guess is that the FBI released the photo in all earnestness, and afterward they got an order from someone to "back off" from pursuing this lead.

I have searched the internet in vain for this photo in the context of the MLK assassination, but I am 100% sure I am not mistaken.

Anyone else around age 50 or over have a similar recollection?

How do you know the photo is of Raoul? Was the man in the lineup named Raoul? Who was the lineup for? Was it for James Earl Ray, to ID Raoul? Did Ray ID this man as Raoul?



What is the evidence of Hunt's involvement in the MLK case?



Hemming has also stated that Johnson was in Dallas, with Arturo Espaillat, at the time of the JFK assassination.

It would be interesting to know if Johnson resembled Frenchy.

Ron

Posted this before, I still think it odd.

Interesting names.

- lee

That's very interesting, Lee. I have never heard of Jerry Hoy.

I believe the mystery man in John's original post is Reinaldo Pico Ramon, a Cuban who was recruited into the Agency's dirty tricks department after the Bay of Pigs. It is also my opinion that he is not the tramp known as Frenchy. FWIW.

Whether or not this guy is Raoul, I have no idea. I have not been able to secure an image of Robert Johnson as apart from the information provided by GPH and Roy Hargraves, I can find no reference to him anywhere.

James

How do you know the photo is of Raoul? Was the man in the lineup named Raoul? Who was the lineup for? Was it for James Earl Ray, to ID Raoul? Did Ray ID this man as Raoul?
The lineup was for a woman who knew raoul to pick him out, he had admitted to her before that "he had killed him (MLk) once, and know i'll have to do it again", it was also for a few others. Im afraid i only have william peppers book in my local library so i cant quote with names at the moment. Ray did also id this man as Raoul.
[COLOR=red]Gerry Hemming says that robert emmet johnson was indeed raoul.
What is the evidence of Hunt's involvement in the MLK case?

[COLOR=red]The evidence for hunts involvement comes from his right hand man at the time (im sorry i dont have his name readily available) who says that hunt pumped money into radio shows accross the country that were unkind to dr.king to say the least, he also says that hunt had a direct link with j edgar hoover and that they frequently discussed king as a problem and that he hinted at paying for the assassination

Hemming has also stated that Johnson was in Dallas, with Arturo Espaillat, at the time of the JFK assassination.

It would be interesting to know if Johnson resembled Frenchy.
it would indeed.

Mark, that sounds like quite big news, if we could find that story with the photo it would be quite amazing in connecting the two cases and showing that both were covert ops.

john

here is a photo of the full line-up that was posted on jfklancerforum.com a few days ago and is in dr.william peppers book 'an act of state, the execution of dr.martin luther king" Its a great book. Notice guy bannister is in the top left.
I intend to write a seminar on the topic of links between the two assassinations as i feel the MLK investigation could throw some light on the JFK case.

Mark, I assume you have tried directly through the paper, I would assume there are some local archives that would store newspapers.

john

This is very interesting, George de morenschildt was afraid of someone or something called RAS right before his murder/suicide. He placed people in Dealey Plaza, then committed himself from the strain. According to the memo Arcarcha Smith? and [William] Seymour were part of the ambuscade, and had alibis made for them in New Orleans and Phoenix.......this Sprague investigators memo from 1977 is very interesting, Lee.

Beckham, Gordon, Arcacha Smith and Seymour are principles in Dealey with Loy, from General Dynamics as the lead position tramp, ie Frenchy.

Will some one else please give some context on this, and who is the author?

(also, I am with james, the Raoul line-up-man is not a match with the #1 tramp)

RAS would be Richard A. Sprague, the original chief counsel of the HSCA. Sprague tried to run a real investigation, and was attacked by the media (on behalf of the CIA) and by his own chairman Henry Gonzalez of Texas, who called Sprague "an unconscionable scoundrel."

DeMohrenschildt and the CIA certainly had reason to fear Sprague, but it's unfortunate if that's why DeMohrenschildt "committed suicide," because Sprague resigned later the same day. Poor George may have shot himself for nothing.

Ron

Beckham was Thomas Beckham, aka Mark Evans. Beckham was a protege of Fred Lee Crisman. (Do a Google on Crisman!) He was also an aquaintence of Ray Broshears. Both Beckham and Broshears were "Reverends" in the Universal Life Church based in Modesto, Cal. I believe Crisman was a "Bishop." I'm not sure if this was self-titled or not. You too can become a "Reverend" in the ULC!

http://www.ulc.org/?destination=ordination&numina=850043948

From an interview Beckham gave to the HSCA:

Delsa: Okay. Now, to bring this down and put it on record. In our preliminary discussions before, later in your contact with the Organization, with Crisman, Crisman you found to be at these various Churches.

Beckham: Uhum, uhum.

Delsa: Now, you don't know this for a fact, but you spoke to us prior to this in a discussion, and told us who you believed set this system up in New Orleans. Will you tell us now, who do you think set this system up with the Church?

Beckham: Well, I think Fred Crisman, because the Organization is all over the country. I'd rather not go into it now because there are different connections of people and other things, but I think Fred Crisman is the whole, front of the whole thing because he's not just a, he has too many contacts, too many, you know, he tells me who to contact. As a matter of fact, one time I was, had received a telephone call from a priest, and which you very well know his name, and I pronounce, starts with a "B", y'know. You had a thing in your file. [Ray Broshears]

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Beckham: Right. Okay. I guess the best place to start is a meeting I had in Algiers, Louisiana...that's as soon as you get off the ferry boat. It's in Orlean Parish. This meeting was attended by myself, Sergio Arcacha, G. Wray Gill, a gentleman by the name of Marcello. If I'm not mistaken a picture I've seen of him was Vincent Marcello. Along with me was a gentleman, a little bitty guy, his name was O Lord, let's see, Morello, Charlie Morello, and Sergio Arcacha was there. Roswell Thompson and a lady by the name of Berglass, she was Anna. At this meeting there were Cubans present, other ones. We talked about, I say "we", they talked about the assassination of the President....We also had a meeting at a place called the Town and Country. That's a motel, vaguely as I can remember on the right hand side of the highway going out towards the airport. This meeting was attended by a Marcello, there was G. Wray Gill, and us there at the time. At that particular meeting, the Cuban issue was discussed, the President, his involvement and how, oh, different things, that, how the President refused to give air support, things like this was discussed. Also I delivered a package approximately, I'd say, two weeks to Dallas prior to the assassination of the President, to a Mr. Howard. I went into Mr. G. Wray Gill's office, I was told to go there by Mr. Ferrie, which I knew real well, and in his office shuffled up some documents which were drawings, that of a map, or plots and stuff. There were some pictures, pictures of buildings and cars and was regular pictures but they wasn't glossy. They were put inside of an envelope at which time G. Wray Gill handed me...it was either one hundred or two hundred dollars, and told me that I was to be, I was going to be taken to the airport. I was to deliver this package to a Mr. Howard at the Executive Inn. At this meeting was Roswell, was Jack Martin, David Ferris[sic] and a bunch of...Sergio Arcacha. Also at the meeting was your Mr. Marcello was at the meeting, setting at, they were setting on a couch. I remember the couch....My good friend Clay Shaw was also there.

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And from an anonymous letter sent to Garrison during his investigation:

Mr. G;
Out on the coast is a man you should talk with. Trace this
information out. His name is Fred Lee Crisman, of Tacaoma, Wash.
He flys to New Orleans steadily. 1964 eleven times. 1965, 17
times. 1966 32 times, 1967 24 times. He is the first man Clay
called after being told he was in trouble and he is the first
man that Beckham called also. He was questioned by both the CIA
and FBI in 1966 but he is able to call Wash. and they laid off of
him in a hurry. He is very good friends with Cubans and specially
SA [Sergio Arcacha] in Dallas (he goes there too) and J.R. [Jorge
Rodriguez] in N.O.
Mr. Crisman is a very odd man. He supplied money for certain
political campaigns and in return is very much protected by both
Lou. politicos and Wash. state people. He has a diplomatic
passport issued on the word of a senate chairman of a committee.
He seems to have no income and certainly spends a large sum of
money on air travel. He is friends with F. Gremillion of your
state. His private office has an unlisted number (206 Ma 7-4790)
and is the meeting place for many odd characters from Cubans
to political figures. Ask him to take a lie detector test and
then ask him where he put the $200,000 dollars delivered to him
by Beckham in August of '67. (Cuban Money) Money that is used to
recruit killers to be sent to Cuba to try for Castro ask him if
it is not true that he has sent 5 different men to S.A. in Dallas
for final briefing. Make Crisman talk and you will have the
answer to why there has been fighting among certain Cuban factions
over the money in certain buried places. You know this is true
because some special Cubans have dropped out of sight. (Dropped
in Torpedo Junction) Crisman is also a pilot. He is the man that
through Beckham and S.A. (Arcacha] paid off certain people is
it not odd that he was a friend of Clay's as well as Beckham.
Is it not strange that he knew Tippet! Just ask Crisman certain
questions under a lie detector and see what the answers are. He
is the one that advised Mark Evans [Beckham's alias] to hide
out in Iowa and NOT to go to N.O. to make any statement about
money or anything. Have an investigator check out the amount of
long distance calls that Beckham (Evans) has made to Crisman in
the past year and the wild places Crisman calls. He is leaving
for Europe in Jan. Keep digging Jim, you have some odd fish
on the run.

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According to Gerry Hemming, Raul was Robert Emmett Johnson.

Please see the thread on Mr. Johnson.

Apparently the name Hoy was well known around General Dynamics, where Gary Shaw reportedly showed around the tramp photo. According to the Torbitt Document, one of the men affiliated with Permindex (the firm whose corporate purpose according to Torbitt included assassinations of world leaders considered threats to the Western World and oil interests) was "Patrick Hoy of the controlling clique in General Dynamics" (p. 50). Torbitt lists Patrick Hoy and David Hoy among the "second layer of participants" in the assassination. (At the top, according to Torbitt, were Johnson, Hoover, Bloomfield, Nagy, De Menil, Prio, Jenkins, Hunt, Baker, Jones, McWillie, Von Braun, Cohn, Korth, Connally and Murchison.) (p. 54) Torbitt refers on p. 104 to the "Henry Crown, Patrick Hoy dominated General Dynamics."

It would be interesting to know what relation, if any, Jerry Hoy (Frenchy?) had to Patrick and David Hoy.

Ron

Hi all,

I've managed to source some background on Robert Emmett Johnson. Parents Raymond and Mary Johnson, two brothers Jack and Bill.

Merchant Marines in 1944, 1948/49 he was with the Marines in Tsingtao China, USMC Press Attache on the FDR during the Korean War, and from here it gets really spooky. Gerry Hemming has spoken a bit about what Johnson and Arturo Espaillat were up to during the early 1960's and then Johnson's involvement in the MLK assassination.

As far as the Kennedy assassination goes, I'm starting to believe Robert Emmett Johnson was a player. To what extent, maybe time will tell.

Robert Emmett Johnson below circa 1944.

James

I am not sure if I am stating the obvious but in the upcoming "Farewell to Justice" book by Joan Mellen she asserts that Thomas Edward Beckham was involved in the JFK assassination plot as another designated "patsy" (In what context she did not elaborate); suffice to say all indications are he was a CIA trained patsy. He will be one of the most intruiging (new,old) characters, to emerge from 1963. Beckham also testified before the New Orleans parish grand jury in the Garrison case against Clay Shaw, according to Mellen he lied his head off about everything, she further implies that if he had told what he knew Garrison would have probably unmasked the conspiracy he was so desperately trying to unmask. Pre-ordered copies arrive appx. Nov. 1, 2005. Keep up the good work.

Very curious to finally find a reference to the place I highlighted in red above.

Oswald had something, possibly a receipt or a book of matches, from this place among his possessions.

I searched high and low for this place with no success. Boy was I surprised to find the connection here.

Being from San Diego, where there is another Town and Country Motel/Hotel, I am sure this was the name on the item in question. I will search for the photo and post it when it is found.

Despite the difference in age of the person(s) in the photo here, and the one John posted, they look strikingly similar to me.

______________________________

His nickname was "Saul." His real name was "Mario Tauler Sague."

--Thomas

______________________________

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In the photos of the "three tramps," "Frenchy" looks quite short to me. Anyone know how tall Robert Emmett Johnson, "Raoul," and/or any of the former real-life "tramps" (conveniently named by the DPD about 25 years after the hit) were? Now, let's see-- Charles Rogers was quite short, wasn't he? Hmm... let's see-- friend of Ferrie, associate of Marcello, former Naval Intelligence, CIA agent, prime suspect in (literal) butchering of his parents, disappears immediately after the assassination, etc etc. Hmm...

Thanks,
--Thomas

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I find this below quite interesting given that there is some 24 years difference in age.

The ID sketch is one of the early ones that went out.

FWIW.

James

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James,

What color eyes did REJ have?

Thanks,
--Thomas

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James,
Thanks for the sketch. Who had the sketch made up, Pepper/MPD? Looks to me like it would bear similarities.
John

P.s. The person in the sketch looks a dead ringer for this guy,

Thomas,

No idea what color eyes REJ had. Sorry.

I ran the question past someone who knew REJ very well. Lucky I asked the question over the phone otherwise I think I would have been punched in the face. REJ swung both ways apparently and the question was taken the wrong way.

John,

Yes, I think the infamous Gonk has some explaining to do.

The sketch I believe was from the MPD. This also went out shortly after the assassination. Mmm. It does make one wonder who they were looking for, especially since James Earl Ray was most likely at a nearby gas station when the shooting occured.

James

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That's hilarious!

His eye color is probably recorded in his merchant marine and/or USMC records. It would be interesting to see if they were as light as represented in the Memphis Police Department's drawing of the alleged assassin of MLK...

--Thomas

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