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Peter Lemkin
Much of the Nazi Secret Weapons Program was gobbled up by the Allies [and the Soviets] in the days just at the end of the War. Hans Kammler was the head of the Nazi Secret Weapons Program at the end of the War. A deal was done and Kammler 'disappeared' with several [all false] versions of his death......
John Simkin
QUOTE (Peter Lemkin @ Apr 9 2005, 07:21 AM)
Much of the Nazi Secret Weapons Program was gobbled up by the Allies [and the Soviets] in the days just at the end of the War. Much was in Pilsen in the Skodawerke AG - the main reason Patton and his troops were so dead set on getting there - despite the fact the War was by then 'won'. Patton died [likely assassinated] because of what he knew and could expose of this. Hans Kammler was the head of the Nazi Secret Weapons Program and secretly met with Patton. A deal was done and Kammler 'disappeared' with several [all false] versions of his death.
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Fascinating story. I have never heard of this before. He definitely had an interesting career.

On 17th August 1943, Patton and his troops marched into Messina. During the campaign seventy-three Italian prisoners were murdered by soldiers in the 45th Division. General Omar Bradley ordered two men to face a general court-martial for premeditated murder. The men's main defence was that they were obeying orders issued by Patton in a speech he made to his soldiers on 27th June. Several soldiers said they were willing to give evidence that Patton had told then to take no prisoners. One officer claimed that Patton had said: "The more prisoners we took, the more we'd have to feed, and not to fool with prisoners." In order to protect Patton from the charge of war crimes, Bradley decided to drop the investigation into the murder of the Italian soldiers.

Patton also created controversy when he visited the 15th Evacuation Hospital on 3rd August 1943. In the hospital he encountered Private Charles H. Kuhl, who had been admitted suffering from shellshock. When Patton asked him why he had been admitted, Kuhl told him "I guess I can't take it." According to one eyewitness Patton "slapped his face with a glove, raised him to his feet by the collar of his shirt and pushed him out of the tent with a kick in the rear." Kuhl was later to claim that he thought Patton, as well as himself, was suffering from combat fatigue.

Two days after the incident at the 15th Evacuation Hospital Patton sent a memo to all commanders in the 7th Army: "It has come to my attention that a very small number of soldiers are going to the hospital on the pretext that they are nervously incapable of combat. Such men are cowards and bring discredit on the army and disgrace to their comrades, whom they heartlessly leave to endure the dangers of battle while they, themselves, use the hospital as a means of escape. You will take measures to see that such cases are not sent to the hospital but are dealt with in their units. Those who are not willing to fight will be tried by court-martial for cowardice in the face of the enemy."

On 10th August 1943, Patton visited the 93rd Evacuation Hospital to see if there were any soldiers claiming to be suffering from combat fatigue. He found Private Paul G. Bennett, an artilleryman with the 13th Field Artillery Brigade. When asked what the problem was, Bennett replied, "It's my nerves, I can't stand the shelling anymore." Patton exploded: "Your nerves. Hell, you are just a goddamned coward, you yellow son of a bitch. Shut up that goddamned crying. I won't have these brave men here who have been shot seeing a yellow bastard sitting here crying. You're a disgrace to the Army and you're going back to the front to fight, although that's too good for you. You ought to be lined up against a wall and shot. In fact, I ought to shoot you myself right now, God damn you!" With this Patton pulled his pistol from its holster and waved it in front of Bennett's face. After putting his pistol way he hit the man twice in the head with his fist. The hospital commander, Colonel Donald E. Currier, then intervened and got in between the two men.

Colonel Richard T. Arnest, the man's doctor, sent a report of the incident to General Eisenhower. The story was also passed to the four newsmen attached to the Seventh Army. Although Patton had committed a court-martial offence by striking an enlisted man, the reporters agreed not to publish the story. Quentin Reynolds of Collier's Weekly agreed to keep quiet but argued that there were "at least 50,000 American soldiers on Sicily who would shoot Patton if they had the chance."

Eisenhower told one of his senior officers: "If this thing ever gets out, they'll be howling for Patton's scalp, and that will be the end of George's service in this war. I simply cannot let that happen. Patton is indispensable to the war effort - one of the guarantors of our victory." Instead he wrote a letter to Patton demanding that he should apologize or make "personal amends to the individuals concerned as may be within your power."

Eisenhower now had a meeting with the war correspondents who knew about the incident and told them that he hoped they would keep the "matter quiet in the interests of retaining a commander whose leadership he considered vital." The men agreed to do this but the news of the incident eventually reached Drew Pearson and in November 1943, he told the story on his weekly syndicated radio program. Some politicians demanded that Patton should be sacked but General George Marshall and Henry L. Stimson supported Eisenhower in the way he had dealt with the case.

In January 1944, General Mark Clark replaced Patton as commander of the Seventh Army. Patton was now sent to Britain and succeeded General Courtney Hodges as commander of the Third Army, and to help prepare for the Normandy invasion.

On 25th April Patton created more controversy when he made a speech using obscene language to an audience that included a large number of women. At the meeting he also said it was the destiny of the United States and Britain to rule the world. This remark upset Allied leaders and Karl Mundt in the House of Representatives complained that Patton had "managed to slap the face of every one of the United Nations except Great Britain."

Eisenhower was furious and cabled Marshall that he was "seriously contemplating the most drastic action" in dealing with Patton. Eisenhower initially decided to send Patton home but then changed his mind. He wrote to Patton: "You owe us some victories; pay off and the world will deem me a wise man."


After the war Patton was made governor of Bavaria. He was severely criticized for allowing Nazis to remain in office and at a press conference on 22nd September 1945, Patton created outrage when he said: "This Nazi thing. It's just like a Democratic-Republican election fight."

Patton was removed as governor and was given command of the 15th Army. A day before he was due to return to the United States Patton was severely injured in a road accident. Paralyzed from the neck down, George Patton died of an embolism on 21st December 1945.
Peter Lemkin
[/quote]

In January 1944, General Mark Clark replaced Patton as commander of the Seventh Army. Patton was now sent to Britain and succeeded General Courtney Hodges as commander of the Third Army, and to help prepare for the Normandy invasion.

On 25th April Patton created more controversy when he made a speech using obscene language to an audience that included a large number of women. At the meeting he also said it was the destiny of the United States and Britain to rule the world. This remark upset Allied leaders and Karl Mundt in the House of Representatives complained that Patton had "managed to slap the face of every one of the United Nations except Great Britain."

Eisenhower was furious and cabled Marshall that he was "seriously contemplating the most drastic action" in dealing with Patton. Eisenhower initially decided to send Patton home but then changed his mind. He wrote to Patton: "You owe us some victories; pay off and the world will deem me a wise man."


After the war Patton was made governor of Bavaria. He was severely criticized for allowing Nazis to remain in office and at a press conference on 22nd September 1945, Patton created outrage when he said: "This Nazi thing. It's just like a Democratic-Republican election fight."

Patton was removed as governor and was given command of the 15th Army. A day before he was due to return to the United States Patton was severely injured in a road accident. Paralyzed from the neck down, George Patton died of an embolism on 21st December 1945.
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[/quote]

Well, this is the 'official' version and the parts about his acerbic personality are correct....however, it is more likely he as assassinated for what he knew and was [someone feared] about to tell about. We have long been lied to as to what really happened at the end of the War and why. [Paperclip; Gehlen; Rattenweg, etc]. There are even some links [with intermediate stages and people] between these episodes and the more contemporary events - such as the assassinaton of JFK; rise of Bush and other neo-fascists; America looking for its 'Reich'; etc.
Mike Tribe
Oh, God! Not another conspiracy theory...
Peter Lemkin
QUOTE (mike tribe @ Apr 10 2005, 01:46 PM)
Oh, God! Not another conspiracy theory...
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He who controls the present controls the future and who controls the past controls the present. The conspiracy is not on my part nor in my mind. We were all lied to about many actions and motives in the War - especially at the end and just afterward. The taking in of the Nazi Scientists under the long secret Operation Overcast/Paperclip is well documented [now]. Simarly the taking in and secret deal with Gehlen Org. [both were kept secret and would never have voluntarily been told. I believe Patton knew the details of Paperclips MOST secret parts and was about to tell...or so they feared...even a four star general [or a President] are expendable to keep the secrets of those who really control things! If you are a history teacher and teaching the 'standard' history - you are not teaching the full truth and in some areas not the truth at all.

...but perhaps your remark was a joke....
UlrikeSchuhFricke
The intial problem was that the allied forces made use of the Nazi's weapon programme and helped the ones who had developed it to escape to their own countries (the "father" of the American space programme Wernher von Braun is the best example I know). The question if General Patten was assassinated or not is of minor importance for me.
I think one reason why GB, the USA and the USSR were so keen on the programme was the Cold War or better the beginning of it. Both sides had high expectations and saw the German technology as a means to overtake the other side.
The beginning and development of the Cold War and the two blocs in its wake is also one reason why many Nazis could hide and even be successful in both German states. Both sides were more interested in overtaking and "defeating" the other side than in finding out the nasty details about the past of their intellectual elites.
Peter Lemkin
QUOTE (UlrikeSchuhFricke @ May 14 2005, 07:48 AM)
I think one reason why GB, the USA and the USSR were so keen on the programme was the Cold War or better the beginning of it. Both sides had high expectations and saw the German technology as a means to overtake the other side.
The beginning and development of the Cold War and the two blocs in its wake is also one reason why many Nazis could hide and even be successful in both German states. Both sides were more interested in overtaking and "defeating" the other side than in finding out the nasty details about the past of their intellectual elites.
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What you say is true...but I would add two caveats - first, some of the 'cold war' was enlarged in magnitude by Nazis such as Gehlen for their own purposes....and second....the total lack of morality involved in what you say...and what happened. Those who do not learn the lessons of history.....and they are repeating it already!
Shanet Clark
The facts about the end of World War II continue to leak out.

It is obvious that thousands of Nazis were considered assets of value and allowed to escape punishment or worse, gain employment by the victorious western allies.

We have discussed the reality of this on other threads.

OPERATION ASHCAN<DUSTBIN<PAPERCLIP<

the actions of Lucius Clay and John J. McCloy and Alan Dulles (with Gehlen)

are documented here, and on the web, and inside the US War College texts.

What is Rattenweg?
UlrikeSchuhFricke
QUOTE (Shanet Clark @ May 15 2005, 10:35 PM)
The facts about the end of World War II continue to leak out.

It is obvious that thousands of Nazis were considered assets of value and allowed to escape punishment or worse, gain employment by the victorious western allies.

We have discussed the reality of this on other threads.

OPERATION ASHCAN<DUSTBIN<PAPERCLIP<

the actions of Lucius Clay and John J. McCloy and Alan Dulles (with Gehlen)

are documented here, and on the web, and inside the US War College texts.

What is Rattenweg?
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Rattenweg?
I think a proper English translation would be "rat run" - if it is no name.
Another explanation why it was so easy for the allies to integrate and for the Nazis to be integrated into the democratic society was that they had learned to adapt and most of them were experts when it came to opportunism
Norman T. Field
I cannot imagine why it would be necessary to assinate George Patton over the US grabbing Nazi weapons. Patton hated the Russians and wanted to attack them as soon as Germany was put down. He got in trouble in England b4 D-Day for saying so publicly.

Georgy boy is well known for his attitude toward prisoners. A former Patton soldier, Frank Sheehan, in the book "I Heard You Paint Houses" details that he was routinely instructed to kill prisoners. This helped prepare him for his later career as a hit man.

And then there is the matter of all the people who visited him in the hospital after his car accident and b4 his death.

This dog won't hunt.
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