After winning the European Cup great things are expected of Liverpool this season. However, in my opinion, the employment of a ten man defence in away games might help you in Europe but will do nothing to win you the Premiership.

Rafael Benitez decision to bring in a load of Spaniards is not the way to win the Premiership. What success they had last year depended on the excellent form of two local players, Gerrard and Carragher. I suspect that Crouch will not cope with the pressure of playing for a top club like Liverpool. He even had trouble when playing for Aston Villa before recapturing the form he showed at QPR with Southampton.

The only pleasure Liverpool are likely to have this year is doing well in the FA Cup and beating Everton. However, they will struggle to make the top six in the Premiership.

Hi John

I think if Liverpool were to reobtain Michael Owen, Liverpool might be able to mount a real challenge for the Premiership crown. The Crouch - Owen combination could be similar to the Toshack - Keegan combination that garnered past glories for the club. Should they not get Owen, they will probably be an also-ran as in the past two seasons. I do agree also that Benitez relies to heavily on the Spanish players he is bringing in. Morientes has yet to make a firm impression in the Premiership. Josemi is too slow as a fullback and Pelegrino never proved his worth either. Garcia and Alonso however are both fine players and have proved valuable to the club.

Best regards

Chris George

Chris, do you get a chance to see Premiership games in the US?

Hi John

Yes indeed I watch Premier league games on cable, on Fox Soccer channel which offers a good supply of top matches, and others are available on Pay-for-View, so I don't lack for Premier league football or indeed Champions League or international matches either.

All my best

Chris

Now what would a West Ham supporter know about football???

Liverpool will challenge for the premiership this year and will retain their European crown - West Ham will disappear back into the Ryman's league from whence they came

It's SO nice to be part of a mature forum

With five strikers obviously working well, what need does Liverpool have of Michael Owen?? Let him got to Newcastle, right??

Hmmmm.. Thanks for that, Ed. It would be nice though to be able to have somebody be able to pop the ball into the net, though wouldn't it???


Chris

The history of football does not appear to be your strong subject. West Ham was formed in 1895 by workers at the Thames Ironworks. The club played in the Southern League until being elected into the Football League after the First World War. Their first league game was on 30th August 1919. They reached the First Division of the league in 1923. It was a good year as they also reached the FA Cup Final (the first one to be played at Wembley).

As a regular visitor to the West Ham supporters forum I have to admit that some of the postings are “intellectually challenged”. They usually contain more asterisks than capital letters. If you make a post claiming that the manager should be sacked you will get about 100 replies within a couple of hours. I occasionally post long pieces on the forum. Last week I wrote a piece about how football tactics have changed since the end of the war. It got 30 page views and no replies. Hopefully it will be different on this forum.



Rafael Benitez does not want Owen. He might live in Spain but he was not born there? How is he ever going to have a complete Spanish team if he buys English players?

Hi John

Not sure about that, John, Rafa Benitez appears to be a wily customer. I believe Liverpool will take Owen back if they can get him at the right price, meaning what they have to pay Real Madrid and what they have to pay Owen in terms of his wages.

According to the Liverpool Echo today: "Michael Owen remains hopeful of securing his dream move back to Liverpool - despite Newcastle's record bid to try and lure him to St James' Park. Despite the current frenzy of speculation, no decision on his future is thought to be imminent."

Owen has not said he will accept the move to Newcastle despite the large bid for him; rather he has said he will go to Newcastle on a one-year loan if he cannot go back to Liverpool.

Also according to the Liverpool Daily Post today: "Now the ball is in Benitez's court amid mounting speculation he could seek to off-load Djibril Cisse in order to accommodate Owen in his squad."

It appears that no decision will be made until after the European Super Cup on Friday. The club's hope seems to be that Owen will lower his wage demands and Liverpool can get him for $8 million that they sold him for 12 months ago. See "Owen's Anfield return only at the right price" (Liverpool Daily Post August 25, 2005).

Chris

Good to see Liverpool winning the first trophy of the season this evening.

If by mature you mean aged then you are without doubt in the right place

Liverpool don't need Owen despite the fans wanting him back. Owen played very badly in the last year he was at Anfield and played poorly for Madrid last year. If they do buy him they should not pay much.

Hi Andy

Few strikers flourish when they are made to play lone striker up front, which was the way Owen was often used in Gerard Houllier's last season as manager.

Owen's ratio of goals to matches played is still impressive for his age (25?) both at the club and international levels, so your cynicism is probably misplaced.

I have every confidence that if Owen does return to Liverpool, which looks increasingly likely, he will have the support he needs and a stronger squad for Liverpool will be fielded overall.

So, Andy, Liverpool for the Premier League crown AND to win the Champion's League once again as well.... Those ripe toms are RED after all....

Chris

In recent years promoted teams tended to play very defensively in their first season in the premiership. In fact, most teams outside the top three (Chelsea, Arsenal, and Manchester United) play that way. For example, Liverpool have played four games this season and have yet to concede a goal. However, they have only managed to score one themselves. Further evidence of Liverpool's decline.

Hi John

Liverpool's performance so far in the Premiership has been disappointing but let's wait until the latter half of the season before looking for supposed evidence of Liverpool's "decline." To my mind what could be happening is the exact opposite, that if Benitez's rebuilding is successful and Sissoko, for example, does successfully become the new Viera as he showed signs in the 2-1 win at Real Bekis, they might once again be able to mount a successful title challenge, possibly next year if not this year.

Chris

How is it that such a usually rational debater and occassionally balanced contributer as John Simkin can come out with such biased claptrap in these threads?
Liverpool's results this season can be viewed by HERE - played 15 won 11!

With this form and with 6 major honours since 2000-1 I for one keenly hope that this "decline" continues to gather pace

Thanks, Andy. I like the philosophy of that well-known sage of football, Sam Allardyce of Bolton Wanderers, who said something that might be applied to Liverpool's Istanbul win and the way Liverpool are playing generally--

"We get what we can, when we can. Whether we deserve it or not doesn't matter as we've got it."

I think it is significant as well that another canny footballing mind, Sir Alex Ferguson, seems impressed with what Rafa Benitez is doing at Liverpool, and they appear to have forged a friendship.

All my best

Chris

Liverpool were clearly the better side this evening against Chelsea and were extremely unlucky not to be awarded at least 2 penalties.

Despite a lot of possession however they failed to make many clear cut openings which is rather worrying.

Chelsea were negative throughout and deeply cynical in the challenge (as are most London clubs). Several of their players were lucky not to have been sent off.

Perhaps the referee was on the Russian's pay roll too?

I agree Liverpool was the better side and at least deserved one penalty. Chelsea have not impressed me too much this season. True they have not lost in the league but their performances have been very boring. Last year they were an exciting counter-attacking side. Robben and Duff have been unconvincing (I cannot understand why he does not start occasionally with Wright-Phillips and Cole on the wings). I would also start with Crespo instead of Drogba (I hate they way he constantly moans about being tackled). They need a top class striker, Lampard, a midfielder, is their top scorer.

The issue now is not whether Liverpool can be champions but if they can avoid relegation.

Chelsea’s decision to play for a draw obviously fooled Liverpool into thinking they were a match for the champions. On Sunday they played 4-3-3 instead of 4-5-1. Cole and Duff constantly attacked with Drogba. For the first 30 minutes, every time one of the three attackers got the ball they were surrounded by three of four defenders. They could not keep this up and by the second-half Liverpool were a very tired team.

The best performance against Chelsea this season was by Wigan. Like other teams like West Ham, Wigan have realised that the best form of defence is attack. Far too many teams this season have not really tested Chelsea’s defence. It is good but unless you attack it, you are not going to find out how good it is. For most of the game Liverpool relied on high balls up to Crouch. Most of the time he was surrounded by Chelsea defenders. Even when he managed to get hold of the ball, he rarely had anyone to pass to. It was a surprise that Liverpool even managed to score one goal.

I suspect Manchester United have now learnt there lesson about playing 4-5-1 (they were unluckly to score only 3 on Saturday against Fulham). How long will it take Liverpool to learn this lesson?

I guess it depends on whether Benitez is reading your advice here John

No chance of that. He only takes the advice of Spaniards. He is gradually getting rid of all the English players in the team. Three talented players, Owen, Murphy and Kirkland have gone. The rest will go by next year and Liverpool will be renamed Foreign Mercenaries. He will have to get a move on or Wengler will beat him to it.

I fear you flatter Murphy (especially) and Owen.
Your posts are beginning to sound rather irrational and anti European on this subject. At theis rate you'll be writing a column in the Sun by the end of the week

You can't really blame Benitez for that-Owen did not want to stay and we weren't in a position to buy him back having enough strikers already. And Murphy is a great player but not top class really.

I like the Spaniards- Alonso is a fantastic player, Garcia has the occasional moment of brilliance which more than makes up for his fumbles. Josemi is pretty solid. Morientes is yet to impress, but I trust Benitez and you can't argue with Nando's record from his days in Spain.

Just wanted to add my twopenneth!

It is interesting that the one Englishman that Benitez does recruit, Peter Crouch, is such a disaster. However, it always looked a strange decision as Liverpool do not appear to play with wingers.

I saw the game against Crystal Palace on Wednesday. Even with wingers Crouch never looked like scoring. Only Steven Gerrard looked dangerous when Liverpool attacked.

Some interesting statistics were published this week. This season Liverpool have only converted 4.8% of the chances they have created in the Premiership. Only Everton have a worse record. I suppose this is the only satisfaction Liverpool will get this season – the relegation of Everton.

Thrashing West Ham at the weekend was also quite satisfying
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/match/last_match/

I agree we were outplayed on Saturday but a 2-0 score hardly indicates a thrashing. After the match Pardew claimed that Liverpool was easily the best side we have played all season. I expect he is right, after all, Arsenal is in clear decline. I still think we can hold our mid-table position. We will lose to teams like Liverpool but we are capable of beating most teams in the Premiership. We might even beat Liverpool when they visit Upton Park.

The sort of league table we all want to see is presented below

UEFA Champions League : Group G Table


1 Liverpool 4 3 1 0 6 1 5 10
2 Chelsea 4 2 1 1 5 1 4 7
3 Real Betis 4 2 0 2 3 6 -3 6
4 Anderlecht 4 0 0 4 0 6 -6 0

I must say how satisfying it has been to witness Liverpool's recent excellent run of form. Also good to see Peter Crouch finally break his duck.
I couldn't be happier if I were spit roasting an Ofsted inspector/West Ham supporter

I agree about Liverpool's form. I thought they looked a better side than Chelsea last night.

I was also fairly impressed with West Ham against Birmingham. Not the best performance this season but very effective. Zamora's goal was fairly special as well.

I am hoping Liverpool can persuade Benitez to sign a new long term contract in the near future and that he secures both a new central defender and left back in the next transfer window

After Liverpool's defeat at Everton, do you think you will make the top 6?