I am not given to hysterical hyperbole, harebrained hallucinations, or high-wire walking over intellectual punji pits, so it is with no meager amount of sober investigative research and reflection that I state with moral certainty that there was no "first break-in" at Democratic National Committee headquarters in the Watergate building on May 28, 1972.
The entire legend of a "first break-in" was nothing more, or less, than a singularly malicious, costly, and destructive hoax on mankind. The elaborate staging and production of this hoax was planned far in advance and carried out with malice aforethought by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in collusion with factions of the National Security Agency (NSA) and other government personnel who had interagency clearance and powers.
The purpose of the extravagant charade was to provide an impenetrable and unquestionable alibi for the whereabouts and activities of several of the starring actors over Memorial Day Weekend 1972. It was scripted to create a convincing fictitious illusion of the presence in Washington, D.C. of E. Howard Hunt, G. Gordon Liddy, James McCord, and Alfred Baldwin over those three days. To its credit, the showy farce was executed just well enough to fool the world for decades.
The simple key to how this fraud has held the world in its maleficent thrall for so long is its central plot device of mutual- and self-incrimination. It isn't even a new plot, just a clever and convincing merging of two of the oldest and most common criminal ploys: 1) create an alibi, 2) tumble for a lesser charge. Usually the latter is used only when the former fails. To combine them into one was the genius. Giving the devil his due, it took brilliant criminal minds who also were schooled and experienced in criminal procedure and modus operandi to write the script and perform the roles.
The most curious aspect, though, is that once the hoax is realized for what it is, the sophomoric, pretentious dialog of lies begins to sound like a grammar school play, and the props and rigging of the travesty begin to topple like flimsy canvas stage scenery.
I haven't come to this realization alone or all at once, but by degrees and in association with others whose knowledge on the subject I respect. During that process, and since, I've been somewhat amazed at the percentage of people who, hearing this for the first time, actually respond with some variation along the lines of: "Of course—somehow, I knew it all along." It wasn't that they had known the exact nature of the hoax, just that they had been duped in some way.
For others, simply thinking such a thought brings on denial, rejection, shock, apoplexy, or all of the above. If you fall into that category, do the athletic thing: suck it up and walk it off, then come back and read these foundational articles as an introductory primer to The Great CIA Hoax of the Twentieth Century:
26 May 1972: The "Ameritas Dinner" and Alfred Baldwin
SUMMARY: The "Cuban Contingent" was there in the Continental room of the Watergate to open the weekend-long play with a showy presence that would have a record and be remembered. Hunt, Liddy, McCord, and Baldwin were not there (except possibly a brief cameo appearance by one or two of them before leaving on their weekend clandestine mission elsewhere).
27 May 1972: The "second failed attempt" and Alfred Baldwin
SUMMARY: There was no "second failed attempt" at all. The testimony and accounts are hopelessly conflicting, with Hunt even stating in sworn testimony that it was just a brief "orientation" trip over to see the DNC door, while expending pages in his autobiography describing a purported break-in attempt that can't be reconciled with Liddy's longwinded account of the same purported event. One of the Cubans likely did intentionally mar the DNC door lock.
G. Gordon Liddy and the Phantom Polaroids
SUMMARY: Liddy claims that on Monday, May 29, 1972 (Memorial Day) he showed Magruder Polaroid photos, taken by Bernard Barker and Eugenio Martinez, of Lawrence O'Brien's office as "proof" of a successful break-in of the DNC on May 28, 1972. Bernard Barker swore in congressional testimony that the "burglars" never reached O'Brien's office at all during the purported "first break-in," even citing that failure as the reason they supposedly went "back" on June 17, 1972.
Liddy, McCord, and the Phantom Watergate "Bugs"
SUMMARY: Liddy and McCord testimony on purported "bugs" supposedly planted by McCord during a "first break-in" is irreconcilably contradictory, and electronic sweeps done days before and immediately after the so-called "second" break-in prove beyond any reasonable doubt that no bugs at all had been planted by McCord (or anyone else) prior to June 17, 1972.
Liddy, Baldwin, and the Phantom Phone Logs
SUMMARY: The only records (or "logs") of any purported intercepted oral or phone communications that anyone connected with Watergate ever saw were documents typed by G. Gordon Liddy's secretary, Sally Harmony, not from electronic "bugs," but from the dictation of G. Gordon Liddy.
If you do just that minimal homework, and still would like to return here and attempt to make the case that there was a "first break-in"—as all of us were duped into believing three decades ago and have accepted as an article of faith ever since—I will be more than happy to debate and discuss any evidence you're able to scrape up in support of a "Watergate First Break-in."
Personally, I'd rather have the Augean stables to shovel out.
Ashton Gray
Full Version: There was no "first break-in" at the Watergate
Dawn Meredith asked some questions of me in a related thread, Liddy, McCord, and the Phantom Watergate "Bugs". That's one of the foundational articles for this thread, and while I realize that this is a bit unorthodox, I've asked her leave there to allow me to answer her questions, to the best of my ability, in this summarizing thread instead, where there are links to all the foundational articles.
So I'm not really replying to myself: here is my response to Dawn:
I should know? You accusing me of being CIA or something? I don't care what names you call me, but don't you dare try to link me to that mob.
Okay, seriously, Dawn: The straight and simple answer of course is I don't know.
But now we're all going to find out. The spy-fiction alibi the co-conspirators cooked up to cover it up has been disintegrated.
Whatever it was, it was big enough—and dirty enough—for them to go to the lengths they did to hide it. And that's a pretty frightening thought all by itself, isn't it?
That's the real cover-up that has never, to this day, been uncovered. It's the cover-up wrapped in a "cover-up." It's the play within the play. It's the still-hidden dirty core of the entire madness. It's the "big secret" still buried and rotting to this minute in the dank cellar of CIA headquarters at Langley.
But the iron door of fraud, which CIA has been hiding it all behind, has been blown off its hinges, and the dark stairs behind lead straight down into CIA's cellar. And that's where the bodies are buried.
That cellar has got to be excavated now, and the truth, however decomposed and unconfrontable, has got to be hauled out into the disinfecting light of day for open, uncompromising public scrutiny. There are no other options.
Now that we finally know where to dig, it's time for all of us to start digging, and digging hard.
For the first time in over 30 years the right questions can be asked of the right people, instead of everybody chasing their tails trying to follow all the thousands of red herrings the co-conspirators planted.
Yes, ma'am. And none of us are ever going to be the same.
I have a feeling you might enjoy this:
The "first break-in" is the first break in the case
The exposure of this CIA fraud of a "first break-in" is the first break in the Watergate case in over three decades.
(I do hope that's being read by some of the glib, pun-happy, amoral scum that the CIA uses for its eternal disinformation ops—especially here on this anniversary date.
)
I have several idle working theories, but I personally believe we're all standing on the threshold of the cellar door and haven't even gone down the stairs yet or rigged up the lights, so it's still a bit dark. What I know with personal certainty, is that it's the right door, the right cellar. The smell is overwhelming.
We've never even been in the right zip code before to dig up actual evidence that will make a working theory on which to build the case. Now it's time to start the probably unpleasant task of digging in the right dirt.
I'll say this: some things have no statute of limitations.
Yes, ma'am.
And Hunt and Liddy, at all relevant times, had CIA clearances (first), then were put into positions with full White House credentials (second), and at all relevant times were in possession of both. There is no more precise definition of "double agent." It wasn't an accident.
Every single "nonsensical" thing done by the co-conspirators--all of which has been discussed and rationalized to death--is entirely consistent with the intent and desire to get "caught" on the night of 16-17 June 1972 with wiretapping equipment and traceable "clues" in their possession that would point away from CIA and point directly toward the White House, then to plant the big alibi story covering Memorial Day weekend, further implicating the White House in the process.
Liddy and Hunt, along with CIA veteran McCord, were the pointers to the White House. They were working for CIA and its clandestine accomplices, with the malevolent intent of implicating the White House. That stark simplicity resolves all conflicting evidence, testimony, and intentionally generated confusion surrounding all related events.
It's not even complicated.
What a sick, twisted fraud on top of a fraud and waste of court and public time that was. It doesn't even bear comment.
As I've said, "the what else was going on" part is what all of us now must demand to be told, with all the intensity and force of the original "investigation," and without compromise.
As for Nixon, let me suggest an interesting exercise that I've done myself several times now: with this knowledge of a vast CIA cover-up, go back and read the full transcript of the so-called "smoking gun" tape. I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right.
I don't know.
I'd be willing to bet the farm, though, that the most crucial evidence of the JFK assassination is still buried in the exact same cellar. And the final exposure of this fraud, the Watergate fraud, is the key that finally unlocks the door to that cellar for everyone.
I also don't think there's a ghost of a chance of finally unraveling the JFK assassination until the CIA Watergate hoax is completely stretched, salted, and tacked to the barn wall.
We have a real chance now to do just that.
And for all those reasons, on this anniversary of Watergate, I implore every person who ever has known with their own moral conviction that we all have been cheated and duped to take effective and forceful action to get that cellar fully excavated.
I call on the new Director of CIA to act at once to instigate the most far-reaching internal investigation ever launched at CIA and finally to report to the world the truth about CIA responsiblity for Watergate and for the unconsionable hoax perpetrated by CIA on mankind. If he doesn't do it as a top priority, I call for his summary removal and charges as an accessory, and on misprison of felony.
I call on the current President of the United States to use every tool, power, agency, and department under his influence and control to reopen Watergate, and for him to make a public demand for full and unvarnished CIA disclosure of CIA's involvement in the planning and execution of Watergate, including public disclosure of where Liddy, Hunt, McCord, and Baldwin actually were and what they actually were doing on Memorial Day weekend 1972. If he won't, I call for his impeachment and charges as an accessory, and on misprison of felony.
And I beseech every person who can be reached by this message to make it happen.
I beseech every thinking, caring American citizen, of whatever station, status, or political persuasion, to demand on every available official line that the Watergate case be reopened with a vengeance by every United States agency, department, and office at any level that has any jurisdiction whatsoever, including but not limited to the DOJ, the CIA itself, and Congress, and to include in that demand that the CIA and all living participants be held fully accountable.
I call on investigators and law enforcement officials at any and all levels to use the power and influence of their office to make similar demands until they are heard.
I entreat educators, researchers, writers, attorneys, and judges to use every line, connection, and influence available to them to make this information known to publications and institutions that can and will move this permanently into broad public view, into the public consciousness, and onto the public agenda as an irresistable force that will open this case to uncompromising scrutiny until every last secret and crime is wrung out of it, and the responsible parties are brought to justice.
I appeal to honest and responsible journalists, commentators, talk show hosts, and media people in any station or position to use their sphere of influence to make this information known, and to raise a din that will not die down until justice is served and the truth is exposed.
I demand our congressional intelligence "oversight committees" to stand aside and let honest people get the job done in disinfecting sunlight. I call on law enforcement agencies and agents to put the first "congressperson" who now attempts to keep any of this behind "closed doors" for "national security" reasons into cuffs as an accessory after the fact, and for misprison of felony. By having protected the guilty behind those "closed doors" of "national security" for so many decades, they already have breached and betrayed the very trust that grants such rights of "national security" secrecy, and so have forfeited any right to the use of any such deceitful cloak to continue to hide and protect criminal fraud against the people on a grand scale.
Yes, I think it's just that important.
We've all been made marks of a giant con. But it's not just a con; it's a criminal betrayal of the highest trusts granted anywhere in the world.
I know that I haven't satisfactorily answered all your questions, Dawn, but for these crucially important and correct questions you've asked, I'm simply the wrong person to be asking. Now, though, we know who to ask, and we know what has to be asked. And we have to ask them together. And demand that they be answered.
Ashton Gray
So I'm not really replying to myself: here is my response to Dawn:
QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Jun 17 2006, 05:15 PM) 
Ashton:
SO what were the boys actually doing that weekend?
SO what were the boys actually doing that weekend?
I should know? You accusing me of being CIA or something? I don't care what names you call me, but don't you dare try to link me to that mob.
Okay, seriously, Dawn: The straight and simple answer of course is I don't know.
But now we're all going to find out. The spy-fiction alibi the co-conspirators cooked up to cover it up has been disintegrated.
QUOTE
What was the bogus first break- in a cover for?
Whatever it was, it was big enough—and dirty enough—for them to go to the lengths they did to hide it. And that's a pretty frightening thought all by itself, isn't it?
That's the real cover-up that has never, to this day, been uncovered. It's the cover-up wrapped in a "cover-up." It's the play within the play. It's the still-hidden dirty core of the entire madness. It's the "big secret" still buried and rotting to this minute in the dank cellar of CIA headquarters at Langley.
But the iron door of fraud, which CIA has been hiding it all behind, has been blown off its hinges, and the dark stairs behind lead straight down into CIA's cellar. And that's where the bodies are buried.
That cellar has got to be excavated now, and the truth, however decomposed and unconfrontable, has got to be hauled out into the disinfecting light of day for open, uncompromising public scrutiny. There are no other options.
Now that we finally know where to dig, it's time for all of us to start digging, and digging hard.
For the first time in over 30 years the right questions can be asked of the right people, instead of everybody chasing their tails trying to follow all the thousands of red herrings the co-conspirators planted.
QUOTE
Ironically, this is 6/17- the anniversary of the real Watergate breakin.
Yes, ma'am. And none of us are ever going to be the same.
I have a feeling you might enjoy this:
The "first break-in" is the first break in the case
The exposure of this CIA fraud of a "first break-in" is the first break in the Watergate case in over three decades.
(I do hope that's being read by some of the glib, pun-happy, amoral scum that the CIA uses for its eternal disinformation ops—especially here on this anniversary date.
)QUOTE
Do you have a theory as to why the breakin occurred?
I have several idle working theories, but I personally believe we're all standing on the threshold of the cellar door and haven't even gone down the stairs yet or rigged up the lights, so it's still a bit dark. What I know with personal certainty, is that it's the right door, the right cellar. The smell is overwhelming.
We've never even been in the right zip code before to dig up actual evidence that will make a working theory on which to build the case. Now it's time to start the probably unpleasant task of digging in the right dirt.
I'll say this: some things have no statute of limitations.
QUOTE
Some tings are obvious: McCord was NOT working for Nixon, but was clearly a double agent.
Yes, ma'am.
And Hunt and Liddy, at all relevant times, had CIA clearances (first), then were put into positions with full White House credentials (second), and at all relevant times were in possession of both. There is no more precise definition of "double agent." It wasn't an accident.
Every single "nonsensical" thing done by the co-conspirators--all of which has been discussed and rationalized to death--is entirely consistent with the intent and desire to get "caught" on the night of 16-17 June 1972 with wiretapping equipment and traceable "clues" in their possession that would point away from CIA and point directly toward the White House, then to plant the big alibi story covering Memorial Day weekend, further implicating the White House in the process.
Liddy and Hunt, along with CIA veteran McCord, were the pointers to the White House. They were working for CIA and its clandestine accomplices, with the malevolent intent of implicating the White House. That stark simplicity resolves all conflicting evidence, testimony, and intentionally generated confusion surrounding all related events.
It's not even complicated.
QUOTE
I don't put much wieght in the Dean's- fiancee- the- hooker story either.
What a sick, twisted fraud on top of a fraud and waste of court and public time that was. It doesn't even bear comment.
QUOTE
Watergate was a CIA plot to get Nixon, but why and what else was going on.?
As I've said, "the what else was going on" part is what all of us now must demand to be told, with all the intensity and force of the original "investigation," and without compromise.
As for Nixon, let me suggest an interesting exercise that I've done myself several times now: with this knowledge of a vast CIA cover-up, go back and read the full transcript of the so-called "smoking gun" tape. I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right.
QUOTE
Do you think Nixon was blackmailing them, threatening to reveal information re the assassination of JFK?
I don't know.
I'd be willing to bet the farm, though, that the most crucial evidence of the JFK assassination is still buried in the exact same cellar. And the final exposure of this fraud, the Watergate fraud, is the key that finally unlocks the door to that cellar for everyone.
I also don't think there's a ghost of a chance of finally unraveling the JFK assassination until the CIA Watergate hoax is completely stretched, salted, and tacked to the barn wall.
We have a real chance now to do just that.
And for all those reasons, on this anniversary of Watergate, I implore every person who ever has known with their own moral conviction that we all have been cheated and duped to take effective and forceful action to get that cellar fully excavated.
I call on the new Director of CIA to act at once to instigate the most far-reaching internal investigation ever launched at CIA and finally to report to the world the truth about CIA responsiblity for Watergate and for the unconsionable hoax perpetrated by CIA on mankind. If he doesn't do it as a top priority, I call for his summary removal and charges as an accessory, and on misprison of felony.
I call on the current President of the United States to use every tool, power, agency, and department under his influence and control to reopen Watergate, and for him to make a public demand for full and unvarnished CIA disclosure of CIA's involvement in the planning and execution of Watergate, including public disclosure of where Liddy, Hunt, McCord, and Baldwin actually were and what they actually were doing on Memorial Day weekend 1972. If he won't, I call for his impeachment and charges as an accessory, and on misprison of felony.
And I beseech every person who can be reached by this message to make it happen.
I beseech every thinking, caring American citizen, of whatever station, status, or political persuasion, to demand on every available official line that the Watergate case be reopened with a vengeance by every United States agency, department, and office at any level that has any jurisdiction whatsoever, including but not limited to the DOJ, the CIA itself, and Congress, and to include in that demand that the CIA and all living participants be held fully accountable.
I call on investigators and law enforcement officials at any and all levels to use the power and influence of their office to make similar demands until they are heard.
I entreat educators, researchers, writers, attorneys, and judges to use every line, connection, and influence available to them to make this information known to publications and institutions that can and will move this permanently into broad public view, into the public consciousness, and onto the public agenda as an irresistable force that will open this case to uncompromising scrutiny until every last secret and crime is wrung out of it, and the responsible parties are brought to justice.
I appeal to honest and responsible journalists, commentators, talk show hosts, and media people in any station or position to use their sphere of influence to make this information known, and to raise a din that will not die down until justice is served and the truth is exposed.
I demand our congressional intelligence "oversight committees" to stand aside and let honest people get the job done in disinfecting sunlight. I call on law enforcement agencies and agents to put the first "congressperson" who now attempts to keep any of this behind "closed doors" for "national security" reasons into cuffs as an accessory after the fact, and for misprison of felony. By having protected the guilty behind those "closed doors" of "national security" for so many decades, they already have breached and betrayed the very trust that grants such rights of "national security" secrecy, and so have forfeited any right to the use of any such deceitful cloak to continue to hide and protect criminal fraud against the people on a grand scale.
Yes, I think it's just that important.
We've all been made marks of a giant con. But it's not just a con; it's a criminal betrayal of the highest trusts granted anywhere in the world.
I know that I haven't satisfactorily answered all your questions, Dawn, but for these crucially important and correct questions you've asked, I'm simply the wrong person to be asking. Now, though, we know who to ask, and we know what has to be asked. And we have to ask them together. And demand that they be answered.
Ashton Gray
Well...now if only we had a media that WOULD respond to any of this. Instead we had Bob Mr CIA Woodward "breaking" the story as the Post- (Operation Mockingbird)- saw fit. This was the big coup, remember?
Now we have the same Woodward telling us Mark Felt is Deep throat. Just waw him a few weeks ago on Larry King. Real investigative journalism at work. And this is the "liberal" network !! (CNN).
I am afraid what you and I seek is way past happening. There is no real investigation of anything that matters in this nation. If someone dares he or she will soon be out of a job- or dead.
(What are the odds that the 4 who dared write about the Bush Crime family would "commit suicide"? )
This time last year I had the faintest hope that the special prosecutor might go after Rove for example, alas, that has gone nowhere.
I had my husband read thru some of this stuff a bit ago; he had no idea there even was a "first breakin"-(and he's become fairly astute in these matters in our 10 years).
I will bet that there will not be even a mention that this is the 34th anniversary of Watergate on ANY news station.
I totaly agree with what you have written...but HOW do we get our government to give us any truth on anything??? Justice? It's bought and sold in this country, sadly.
No, like with what has been thus far unearthed about the assassination of JFK- (and its ramifications to the present)- we will not obtain the truth about Watergate from our elected officials, but from those brave enough to dig beyond what our "free" press passes to us. I was able to figure out McCord just by reading the press at the time, and the same with Dorothy Hunt: it was SO damn obvious.
Another problem is time. As in not many have it, gotta work, pay the bills. So the conspirators keep us busy with false clues and rabbit trails. And of course when you try to tell "regular folk" about any of this you're immediately met with "Oh a conspiracy nut" ....
Thank God for the net and forums like this. Thus far we ARE monitered I am certain but not regulated, so much information can be shared here.
I look forward to hearing your thoeries on this as it's clear you have given this case a LOT of thought.
Happy Anniversary
Dawn
Now we have the same Woodward telling us Mark Felt is Deep throat. Just waw him a few weeks ago on Larry King. Real investigative journalism at work. And this is the "liberal" network !! (CNN).
I am afraid what you and I seek is way past happening. There is no real investigation of anything that matters in this nation. If someone dares he or she will soon be out of a job- or dead.
(What are the odds that the 4 who dared write about the Bush Crime family would "commit suicide"? )
This time last year I had the faintest hope that the special prosecutor might go after Rove for example, alas, that has gone nowhere.
I had my husband read thru some of this stuff a bit ago; he had no idea there even was a "first breakin"-(and he's become fairly astute in these matters in our 10 years).
I will bet that there will not be even a mention that this is the 34th anniversary of Watergate on ANY news station.
I totaly agree with what you have written...but HOW do we get our government to give us any truth on anything??? Justice? It's bought and sold in this country, sadly.
No, like with what has been thus far unearthed about the assassination of JFK- (and its ramifications to the present)- we will not obtain the truth about Watergate from our elected officials, but from those brave enough to dig beyond what our "free" press passes to us. I was able to figure out McCord just by reading the press at the time, and the same with Dorothy Hunt: it was SO damn obvious.
Another problem is time. As in not many have it, gotta work, pay the bills. So the conspirators keep us busy with false clues and rabbit trails. And of course when you try to tell "regular folk" about any of this you're immediately met with "Oh a conspiracy nut" ....
Thank God for the net and forums like this. Thus far we ARE monitered I am certain but not regulated, so much information can be shared here.
I look forward to hearing your thoeries on this as it's clear you have given this case a LOT of thought.
Happy Anniversary
Dawn
Hi Dawn.
I empathize completely with the sense of "no hope" you express in your message. I've lived it.
But there is hope, and it's only going to take a little help to blow it wide open and back onto the front pages. It's already in motion. It was before I posted a single thing about all this here (or I wouldn't have been stupid or reckless enough to post it at all). It just needs some push. You, and everyone who cares, can make a difference.
We do. There are still "alternative" media that aren't controlled like the majors, and there still are honest people who give a damn at the grass roots, and in smaller-market papers and media stations. Rattle their doors.
This also is a world-wide, not USA-exclusive, story. There's plenty of foreign media, and there's interest in this elsewhere (and was before I ever posted a syllable about any of this in this international forum).
Yeah, well of course that putz and his whoring excuse for a newspaper were key co-conspirators. Let that golem polish its "precccccccious," its Pulitzer, that it sold its soul for. There still are real journalists in the world. The Post and its minions are going to get their comeuppance in scrambling like mad to explain how and why they somehow "missed" the entire actual story that was right under their noses. I wonder who they're going to get to try to explain that grandiose journalistic flop away. Whoever it is probably should turn the lights at the Post off on their way out.
Meanwhile, somebody somewhere is going to get a Pulitzer that's actually earned for breaking the truth about Watergate. It's all been laid out. All they've got to do is publish it.
There's an interesting story about that, which I was only made aware of relatively recently, and it's this:
In early 2004, a series of anonymous messages was posted in several USENET news groups from someone signing himself or herself "The Real Deep Throat." If you do a Google search in newsgroups for that phrase, you'll find these messages.
They expose a lot of the same information that's now in the Wikipedia article "Watergate first break-in", which I've relied on heavily for my own conclusions, and for my articles here in this forum (and which it looks like somebody is awfully desparate to get erased out of existence over there at Wikipedia right now).
A friend of mine who pointed me to these USENET postings, and who has studied Watergate for decades, feels certain that those revelations are what caused the cruds to suddenly "reveal" their "Deep Throat" just about a year after these postings started showing up—entirely violating the "promise" that it never would happen until the so-called "Deep Throat" was dead, by the way—and even got the mummified Liddy to sit upright on CNN and be a talking head to try to lend it credence.
I don't know if those postings are what caused their "Deep Throat" knee to jerk or not, but apparently those "Real Deep Throat" postings were getting a good deal of circulation, and the timing sure is interesting, isn't it? It seems like they were awfully desperate to get back in control of the story and remind the world that it all really happened just the way Bob Woodward told you it did. (I'll refrain from spitting.)
Pressure. Public pressure. And it can be brought to bear. If my information is correct, there already are some groups putting together Executive Summaries of this information right now to go to legislators—and some other places. There's already a good deal of interest generated in all of this elsewhere. (I wouldn't have been stupid or reckless enough to post it here otherwise. It's already spread around in too many places to have a prayer of being contained by any means.)
You can add my thanks in spades, and not only to God, but to John Simkin as well.
As for this being monitored, you betcha', but they've got a real serious problem right now: there's no fall-back story. They've been hit so hard, so fast, by so much of their fraud being exposed that there's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. That's why right this minute, in response to some hard questions arising directly from these exposures, we're being treated here in this very forum to repetitive talking points and evasive references to obscure FBI documents and newspaper accounts. That's the only answer they have! It's not following the script of the fraud any more! And there's nothing to replace it with! It's a big "no answer." It's just stonewall, stonewall, stonewall, while the CIA-contracted once-removed think tanks scramble like mad trying to come up with some kind of plausible out.
There isn't one.
They were 100% invested in keeping the hoax afloat, confident that it never would be penetrated.
It's not just been penetrated, it's been blown in half. Their next stage is damage control, and I sure hope they're busy at it—the ones who aren't trying to find a way to jump ship.
There's another problem they have, and that's numbers. Although the gang of thugs who have put this fraud over on the world and have kept it going have power, there's only a relative few of them, while there are millions if not billions of people in the world who want the truth.
So all I'm trying to say, really, is that there is hope, there's strength in numbers, and there is something that can be done about it. There are lots of bright, honest, caring people in the world who can be brought to see the light on this and get motivated to get into action on it.
We can make a difference. We will.
Happy Anniversary to you, too.
Ashton Gray
I empathize completely with the sense of "no hope" you express in your message. I've lived it.
But there is hope, and it's only going to take a little help to blow it wide open and back onto the front pages. It's already in motion. It was before I posted a single thing about all this here (or I wouldn't have been stupid or reckless enough to post it at all). It just needs some push. You, and everyone who cares, can make a difference.
QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Jun 17 2006, 10:23 PM)
Well...now if only we had a media that WOULD respond to any of this.
We do. There are still "alternative" media that aren't controlled like the majors, and there still are honest people who give a damn at the grass roots, and in smaller-market papers and media stations. Rattle their doors.
This also is a world-wide, not USA-exclusive, story. There's plenty of foreign media, and there's interest in this elsewhere (and was before I ever posted a syllable about any of this in this international forum).
QUOTE
Instead we had Bob Mr CIA Woodward "breaking" the story as the Post- (Operation Mockingbird)- saw fit. This was the big coup, remember?
Yeah, well of course that putz and his whoring excuse for a newspaper were key co-conspirators. Let that golem polish its "precccccccious," its Pulitzer, that it sold its soul for. There still are real journalists in the world. The Post and its minions are going to get their comeuppance in scrambling like mad to explain how and why they somehow "missed" the entire actual story that was right under their noses. I wonder who they're going to get to try to explain that grandiose journalistic flop away. Whoever it is probably should turn the lights at the Post off on their way out.
Meanwhile, somebody somewhere is going to get a Pulitzer that's actually earned for breaking the truth about Watergate. It's all been laid out. All they've got to do is publish it.
QUOTE
Now we have the same Woodward telling us Mark Felt is Deep throat.
There's an interesting story about that, which I was only made aware of relatively recently, and it's this:
In early 2004, a series of anonymous messages was posted in several USENET news groups from someone signing himself or herself "The Real Deep Throat." If you do a Google search in newsgroups for that phrase, you'll find these messages.
They expose a lot of the same information that's now in the Wikipedia article "Watergate first break-in", which I've relied on heavily for my own conclusions, and for my articles here in this forum (and which it looks like somebody is awfully desparate to get erased out of existence over there at Wikipedia right now).
A friend of mine who pointed me to these USENET postings, and who has studied Watergate for decades, feels certain that those revelations are what caused the cruds to suddenly "reveal" their "Deep Throat" just about a year after these postings started showing up—entirely violating the "promise" that it never would happen until the so-called "Deep Throat" was dead, by the way—and even got the mummified Liddy to sit upright on CNN and be a talking head to try to lend it credence.
I don't know if those postings are what caused their "Deep Throat" knee to jerk or not, but apparently those "Real Deep Throat" postings were getting a good deal of circulation, and the timing sure is interesting, isn't it? It seems like they were awfully desperate to get back in control of the story and remind the world that it all really happened just the way Bob Woodward told you it did. (I'll refrain from spitting.)
QUOTE
I totaly agree with what you have written...but HOW do we get our government to give us any truth on anything???
Pressure. Public pressure. And it can be brought to bear. If my information is correct, there already are some groups putting together Executive Summaries of this information right now to go to legislators—and some other places. There's already a good deal of interest generated in all of this elsewhere. (I wouldn't have been stupid or reckless enough to post it here otherwise. It's already spread around in too many places to have a prayer of being contained by any means.)
QUOTE
Thank God for the net and forums like this. Thus far we ARE monitered I am certain but not regulated, so much information can be shared here.
You can add my thanks in spades, and not only to God, but to John Simkin as well.
As for this being monitored, you betcha', but they've got a real serious problem right now: there's no fall-back story. They've been hit so hard, so fast, by so much of their fraud being exposed that there's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. That's why right this minute, in response to some hard questions arising directly from these exposures, we're being treated here in this very forum to repetitive talking points and evasive references to obscure FBI documents and newspaper accounts. That's the only answer they have! It's not following the script of the fraud any more! And there's nothing to replace it with! It's a big "no answer." It's just stonewall, stonewall, stonewall, while the CIA-contracted once-removed think tanks scramble like mad trying to come up with some kind of plausible out.
There isn't one.
They were 100% invested in keeping the hoax afloat, confident that it never would be penetrated.
It's not just been penetrated, it's been blown in half. Their next stage is damage control, and I sure hope they're busy at it—the ones who aren't trying to find a way to jump ship.
There's another problem they have, and that's numbers. Although the gang of thugs who have put this fraud over on the world and have kept it going have power, there's only a relative few of them, while there are millions if not billions of people in the world who want the truth.
So all I'm trying to say, really, is that there is hope, there's strength in numbers, and there is something that can be done about it. There are lots of bright, honest, caring people in the world who can be brought to see the light on this and get motivated to get into action on it.
We can make a difference. We will.
QUOTE
Happy Anniversary
Happy Anniversary to you, too.Ashton Gray
[quote name='Ashton Gray' date='Jun 17 2006, 07:22 PM' post='65721']
Dawn Meredith asked some questions of me in a related thread, Liddy, McCord, and the Phantom Watergate "Bugs". That's one of the foundational articles for this thread, and while I realize that this is a bit unorthodox, I've asked her leave there to allow me to answer her questions, to the best of my ability, in this summarizing thread instead, where there are links to all the foundational articles.
So I'm not really replying to myself: here is my response to Dawn:
[quote name='Dawn Meredith' post='65708' date='Jun 17 2006, 05:15 PM']
Ashton:
First break in the case
The exposure of this CIA fraud of a "first break-in" is the first break in the Watergate case in over three decades.
(I do hope that's being read by some of the glib, pun-happy, amoral scum that the CIA uses for its eternal disinformation ops—especially here on this anniversary date. )
[quote]Do you have a theory as to why the breakin occurred?[/quote]
I have several idle working theories, but I personally believe we're all standing on the threshold of the cellar door and haven't even gone down the stairs yet or rigged up the lights, so it's still a bit dark. What I know with personal certainty, is that it's the right door, the right cellar. The smell is overwhelming.
We've never even been in the right zip code before to dig up actual evidence that will make a working theory on which to build the case. Now it's time to start the probably unpleasant task of digging in the right dirt.
I'll say this: some things have no statute of limitations.
[quote]Some tings are obvious: McCord was NOT working for Nixon, but was clearly a double agent.[/quote]
Yes, ma'am.
And Hunt and Liddy, at all relevant times, had CIA clearances (first), then were put into positions with full White House credentials (second), and at all relevant times were in possession of both. There is no more precise definition of "double agent." It wasn't an accident.
Every single "nonsensical" thing done by the co-conspirators--all of which has been discussed and rationalized to death--is entirely consistent with the intent and desire to get "caught" on the night of 16-17 June 1972 with wiretapping equipment and traceable "clues" in their possession that would point away from CIA and point directly toward the White House, then to plant the big alibi story covering Memorial Day weekend, further implicating the White House in the process.
Liddy and Hunt, along with CIA veteran McCord, were the pointers to the White House. They were working for CIA and its clandestine accomplices, with the malevolent intent of implicating the White House. That stark simplicity resolves all conflicting evidence, testimony, and intentionally generated confusion surrounding all related events.
It's not even complicated.
[quote]I don't put much wieght in the Dean's- fiancee- the- hooker story either.[/quote]
What a sick, twisted fraud on top of a fraud and waste of court and public time that was. It doesn't even bear comment.
[quote]Watergate was a CIA plot to get Nixon, but why and what else was going on.?[/quote]
As I've said, "the what else was going on" part is what all of us now must demand to be told, with all the intensity and force of the original "investigation," and without compromise.
As for Nixon, let me suggest an interesting exercise that I've done myself several times now: with this knowledge of a vast CIA cover-up, go back and read the full transcript of the so-called "smoking gun" tape. I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right.
[quote]Do you think Nixon was blackmailing them, threatening to reveal information re the assassination of JFK?[/quote]
I don't know.
I'd be willing to bet the farm, though, that the most crucial evidence of the JFK assassination is still buried in the exact same cellar. And the final exposure of this fraud, the Watergate fraud, is the key that finally unlocks the door to that cellar for everyone.
I also don't think there's a ghost of a chance of finally unraveling the JFK assassination until the CIA Watergate hoax is completely stretched, salted, and tacked to the barn wall.
We have a real chance now to do just that.
And for all those reasons, on this anniversary of Watergate, I implore every person who ever has known with their own moral conviction that we all have been cheated and duped to take effective and forceful action to get that cellar fully excavated.
I call on the new Director of CIA to act at once to instigate the most far-reaching internal investigation ever launched at CIA and finally to report to the world the truth about CIA responsiblity for Watergate and for the unconsionable hoax perpetrated by CIA on mankind. If he doesn't do it as a top priority, I call for his summary removal and charges as an accessory, and on misprison of felony.
I call on the current President of the United States to use every tool, power, agency, and department under his influence and control to reopen Watergate, and for him to make a public demand for full and unvarnished CIA disclosure of CIA's involvement in the planning and execution of Watergate, including public disclosure of where Liddy, Hunt, McCord, and Baldwin actually were and what they actually were doing on Memorial Day weekend 1972. If he won't, I call for his impeachment and charges as an accessory, and on misprison of felony.
And I beseech every person who can be reached by this message to make it happen.
I beseech every thinking, caring American citizen, of whatever station, status, or political persuasion, to demand on every available official line that the Watergate case be reopened with a vengeance by every United States agency, department, and office at any level that has any jurisdiction whatsoever, including but not limited to the DOJ, the CIA itself, and Congress, and to include in that demand that the CIA and all living participants be held fully accountable.
I call on investigators and law enforcement officials at any and all levels to use the power and influence of their office to make similar demands until they are heard.
I entreat educators, researchers, writers, attorneys, and judges to use every line, connection, and influence available to them to make this information known to publications and institutions that can and will move this permanently into broad public view, into the public consciousness, and onto the public agenda as an irresistable force that will open this case to uncompromising scrutiny until every last secret and crime is wrung out of it, and the responsible parties are brought to justice.
I appeal to honest and responsible journalists, commentators, talk show hosts, and media people in any station or position to use their sphere of influence to make this information known, and to raise a din that will not die down until justice is served and the truth is exposed.
I demand our congressional intelligence "oversight committees" to stand aside and let honest people get the job done in disinfecting sunlight. I call on law enforcement agencies and agents to put the first "congressperson" who now attempts to keep any of this behind "closed doors" for "national security" reasons into cuffs as an accessory after the fact, and for misprison of felony. By having protected the guilty behind those "closed doors" of "national security" for so many decades, they already have breached and betrayed the very trust that grants such rights of "national security" secrecy, and so have forfeited any right to the use of any such deceitful cloak to continue to hide and protect criminal fraud against the people on a grand scale.
Yes, I think it's just that important.
We've all been made marks of a giant con. But it's not just a con; it's a criminal betrayal of the highest trusts granted anywhere in the world.
I know that I haven't satisfactorily answered all your questions, Dawn, but for these crucially important and correct questions you've asked, I'm simply the wrong person to be asking. Now, though, we know who to ask, and we know what has to be asked. And we have to ask them together. And demand that they be answered.
Ashton Gray
[/quote]
***************************************************************
"I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right."
And, wouldn't you venture to say that the CIA, along with their elite backers, considered Nixon to be a "Quaker," so to speak, and beneath their station, financially as well as politically? He was merely being used by them and their Secret Team. Just like they used Carter, to be a fall-guy, in order to justify their positions, as the war-mongering opportunists they actually are. The American people have been continually psy-op'd via Operation Mockingbird ad infinitum [since 1947]. These shysters are the original tricksters behind the supposed "Tricky Dicky" campaign, and assorted similar methods used in fabricating the wool to pull over the eyes of the American sheople, back even before the BoP's Operation. Nixon was nothing more than a hick-shuckster opportunist, along similar lines as LBJ, as far as the elites were concerned, and that's how they dealt with him. And, you must know who I'm referring to, here in the form of Allen Dulles, along with his band of merry men. "Send lawyers, guns, and money. The shit has hit the fan." All the other CIA directors following in his footsteps pale in comparison.
"I call on the current President of the United States to use every tool, power, agency, and department under his influence and control to reopen Watergate, and for him to make a public demand for full and unvarnished CIA disclosure of CIA's involvement in the planning and execution of Watergate..."
This is a neo-fascist regime we have in power at the moment. It ain't gonna happen, my friend.
"I beseech every thinking, caring American citizen, of whatever station, status, or political persuasion, to demand on every available official line that the Watergate case be reopened..."
If you can get them away from their playstations, soap operas, reality TV shows, moronic game shows, and all commerical channels between 2 and 13, long enough to get their attention.
I call on investigators and law enforcement officials at any and all levels to use the power and influence of their office to make similar demands until they are heard."
And, I'm sure they'd be more than willing to oblige you, just as long as they're not card-carrying neocons who voted for GW, or Arnold the Governator.
"I entreat educators, researchers, writers, attorneys, and judges to use every line, connection, and influence available to them to make this information known to publications and institutions that can and will move this permanently into broad public view, into the public consciousness, and onto the public agenda..."
Now, I must concede that you'll probably have more luck with this group. Especially if they tend to be like-minded and politically aligned with those of us of the more socially-inclined persuasion.
"I appeal to honest and responsible journalists, commentators, talk show hosts, and media people in any station or position to use their sphere of influence to make this information known, and to raise a din that will not die down until justice is served and the truth is exposed."
If Congress succeeds in its efforts to pull funding from NPR and similar subsidiaries, we'll definitely be shit out of luck. I seriously doubt you'll be getting any substantial response from the commercial venues. They're all running scared to save their own hides after the recent Dan Rather faux pas.
"I demand our congressional intelligence "oversight committees" to stand aside and let honest people get the job done in disinfecting sunlight. I call on law enforcement agencies and agents to put the first "congressperson" who now attempts to keep any of this behind "closed doors" for "national security" reasons into cuffs as an accessory after the fact, and for misprison of felony."
Hey, "Now Whoa dere, Sapphire!" Do we actually have such things as "legit" oversight committees? These days? It's a REPUBLICAN Congress, totally. You're gonna be pissin' in the wind asking for that kind of cooperation, honey. Earth to Ashton...Earth to Ashton...Come back down to Earth and head directly underground before you become a moving target for Cheney.
All kidding aside though, your requests and honorable intentions are like a fresh spring rain to my ears and to my sore eyes. But, are we inhabiting the same planet, here? Surely not the same country?
Keep up the outstanding work! You're a damned good investigator, and seem quite skilled at the art of cross-examinination/interrogation. Flawless, as well as fearless. And, if my damned computer weren't crawling along at a snail's pace, I would've gotten this off to you well over an hour ago.
Best of luck and warmest regards,
Ter
Dawn Meredith asked some questions of me in a related thread, Liddy, McCord, and the Phantom Watergate "Bugs". That's one of the foundational articles for this thread, and while I realize that this is a bit unorthodox, I've asked her leave there to allow me to answer her questions, to the best of my ability, in this summarizing thread instead, where there are links to all the foundational articles.
So I'm not really replying to myself: here is my response to Dawn:
[quote name='Dawn Meredith' post='65708' date='Jun 17 2006, 05:15 PM']
Ashton:
First break in the case
The exposure of this CIA fraud of a "first break-in" is the first break in the Watergate case in over three decades.
(I do hope that's being read by some of the glib, pun-happy, amoral scum that the CIA uses for its eternal disinformation ops—especially here on this anniversary date.
)[quote]Do you have a theory as to why the breakin occurred?[/quote]
I have several idle working theories, but I personally believe we're all standing on the threshold of the cellar door and haven't even gone down the stairs yet or rigged up the lights, so it's still a bit dark. What I know with personal certainty, is that it's the right door, the right cellar. The smell is overwhelming.
We've never even been in the right zip code before to dig up actual evidence that will make a working theory on which to build the case. Now it's time to start the probably unpleasant task of digging in the right dirt.
I'll say this: some things have no statute of limitations.
[quote]Some tings are obvious: McCord was NOT working for Nixon, but was clearly a double agent.[/quote]
Yes, ma'am.
And Hunt and Liddy, at all relevant times, had CIA clearances (first), then were put into positions with full White House credentials (second), and at all relevant times were in possession of both. There is no more precise definition of "double agent." It wasn't an accident.
Every single "nonsensical" thing done by the co-conspirators--all of which has been discussed and rationalized to death--is entirely consistent with the intent and desire to get "caught" on the night of 16-17 June 1972 with wiretapping equipment and traceable "clues" in their possession that would point away from CIA and point directly toward the White House, then to plant the big alibi story covering Memorial Day weekend, further implicating the White House in the process.
Liddy and Hunt, along with CIA veteran McCord, were the pointers to the White House. They were working for CIA and its clandestine accomplices, with the malevolent intent of implicating the White House. That stark simplicity resolves all conflicting evidence, testimony, and intentionally generated confusion surrounding all related events.
It's not even complicated.
[quote]I don't put much wieght in the Dean's- fiancee- the- hooker story either.[/quote]
What a sick, twisted fraud on top of a fraud and waste of court and public time that was. It doesn't even bear comment.
[quote]Watergate was a CIA plot to get Nixon, but why and what else was going on.?[/quote]
As I've said, "the what else was going on" part is what all of us now must demand to be told, with all the intensity and force of the original "investigation," and without compromise.
As for Nixon, let me suggest an interesting exercise that I've done myself several times now: with this knowledge of a vast CIA cover-up, go back and read the full transcript of the so-called "smoking gun" tape. I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right.
[quote]Do you think Nixon was blackmailing them, threatening to reveal information re the assassination of JFK?[/quote]
I don't know.
I'd be willing to bet the farm, though, that the most crucial evidence of the JFK assassination is still buried in the exact same cellar. And the final exposure of this fraud, the Watergate fraud, is the key that finally unlocks the door to that cellar for everyone.
I also don't think there's a ghost of a chance of finally unraveling the JFK assassination until the CIA Watergate hoax is completely stretched, salted, and tacked to the barn wall.
We have a real chance now to do just that.
And for all those reasons, on this anniversary of Watergate, I implore every person who ever has known with their own moral conviction that we all have been cheated and duped to take effective and forceful action to get that cellar fully excavated.
I call on the new Director of CIA to act at once to instigate the most far-reaching internal investigation ever launched at CIA and finally to report to the world the truth about CIA responsiblity for Watergate and for the unconsionable hoax perpetrated by CIA on mankind. If he doesn't do it as a top priority, I call for his summary removal and charges as an accessory, and on misprison of felony.
I call on the current President of the United States to use every tool, power, agency, and department under his influence and control to reopen Watergate, and for him to make a public demand for full and unvarnished CIA disclosure of CIA's involvement in the planning and execution of Watergate, including public disclosure of where Liddy, Hunt, McCord, and Baldwin actually were and what they actually were doing on Memorial Day weekend 1972. If he won't, I call for his impeachment and charges as an accessory, and on misprison of felony.
And I beseech every person who can be reached by this message to make it happen.
I beseech every thinking, caring American citizen, of whatever station, status, or political persuasion, to demand on every available official line that the Watergate case be reopened with a vengeance by every United States agency, department, and office at any level that has any jurisdiction whatsoever, including but not limited to the DOJ, the CIA itself, and Congress, and to include in that demand that the CIA and all living participants be held fully accountable.
I call on investigators and law enforcement officials at any and all levels to use the power and influence of their office to make similar demands until they are heard.
I entreat educators, researchers, writers, attorneys, and judges to use every line, connection, and influence available to them to make this information known to publications and institutions that can and will move this permanently into broad public view, into the public consciousness, and onto the public agenda as an irresistable force that will open this case to uncompromising scrutiny until every last secret and crime is wrung out of it, and the responsible parties are brought to justice.
I appeal to honest and responsible journalists, commentators, talk show hosts, and media people in any station or position to use their sphere of influence to make this information known, and to raise a din that will not die down until justice is served and the truth is exposed.
I demand our congressional intelligence "oversight committees" to stand aside and let honest people get the job done in disinfecting sunlight. I call on law enforcement agencies and agents to put the first "congressperson" who now attempts to keep any of this behind "closed doors" for "national security" reasons into cuffs as an accessory after the fact, and for misprison of felony. By having protected the guilty behind those "closed doors" of "national security" for so many decades, they already have breached and betrayed the very trust that grants such rights of "national security" secrecy, and so have forfeited any right to the use of any such deceitful cloak to continue to hide and protect criminal fraud against the people on a grand scale.
Yes, I think it's just that important.
We've all been made marks of a giant con. But it's not just a con; it's a criminal betrayal of the highest trusts granted anywhere in the world.
I know that I haven't satisfactorily answered all your questions, Dawn, but for these crucially important and correct questions you've asked, I'm simply the wrong person to be asking. Now, though, we know who to ask, and we know what has to be asked. And we have to ask them together. And demand that they be answered.
Ashton Gray
[/quote]
***************************************************************
"I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right."
And, wouldn't you venture to say that the CIA, along with their elite backers, considered Nixon to be a "Quaker," so to speak, and beneath their station, financially as well as politically? He was merely being used by them and their Secret Team. Just like they used Carter, to be a fall-guy, in order to justify their positions, as the war-mongering opportunists they actually are. The American people have been continually psy-op'd via Operation Mockingbird ad infinitum [since 1947]. These shysters are the original tricksters behind the supposed "Tricky Dicky" campaign, and assorted similar methods used in fabricating the wool to pull over the eyes of the American sheople, back even before the BoP's Operation. Nixon was nothing more than a hick-shuckster opportunist, along similar lines as LBJ, as far as the elites were concerned, and that's how they dealt with him. And, you must know who I'm referring to, here in the form of Allen Dulles, along with his band of merry men. "Send lawyers, guns, and money. The shit has hit the fan." All the other CIA directors following in his footsteps pale in comparison.
"I call on the current President of the United States to use every tool, power, agency, and department under his influence and control to reopen Watergate, and for him to make a public demand for full and unvarnished CIA disclosure of CIA's involvement in the planning and execution of Watergate..."
This is a neo-fascist regime we have in power at the moment. It ain't gonna happen, my friend.
"I beseech every thinking, caring American citizen, of whatever station, status, or political persuasion, to demand on every available official line that the Watergate case be reopened..."
If you can get them away from their playstations, soap operas, reality TV shows, moronic game shows, and all commerical channels between 2 and 13, long enough to get their attention.
I call on investigators and law enforcement officials at any and all levels to use the power and influence of their office to make similar demands until they are heard."
And, I'm sure they'd be more than willing to oblige you, just as long as they're not card-carrying neocons who voted for GW, or Arnold the Governator.
"I entreat educators, researchers, writers, attorneys, and judges to use every line, connection, and influence available to them to make this information known to publications and institutions that can and will move this permanently into broad public view, into the public consciousness, and onto the public agenda..."
Now, I must concede that you'll probably have more luck with this group. Especially if they tend to be like-minded and politically aligned with those of us of the more socially-inclined persuasion.
"I appeal to honest and responsible journalists, commentators, talk show hosts, and media people in any station or position to use their sphere of influence to make this information known, and to raise a din that will not die down until justice is served and the truth is exposed."
If Congress succeeds in its efforts to pull funding from NPR and similar subsidiaries, we'll definitely be shit out of luck. I seriously doubt you'll be getting any substantial response from the commercial venues. They're all running scared to save their own hides after the recent Dan Rather faux pas.
"I demand our congressional intelligence "oversight committees" to stand aside and let honest people get the job done in disinfecting sunlight. I call on law enforcement agencies and agents to put the first "congressperson" who now attempts to keep any of this behind "closed doors" for "national security" reasons into cuffs as an accessory after the fact, and for misprison of felony."
Hey, "Now Whoa dere, Sapphire!" Do we actually have such things as "legit" oversight committees? These days? It's a REPUBLICAN Congress, totally. You're gonna be pissin' in the wind asking for that kind of cooperation, honey. Earth to Ashton...Earth to Ashton...Come back down to Earth and head directly underground before you become a moving target for Cheney.
All kidding aside though, your requests and honorable intentions are like a fresh spring rain to my ears and to my sore eyes. But, are we inhabiting the same planet, here? Surely not the same country?
Keep up the outstanding work! You're a damned good investigator, and seem quite skilled at the art of cross-examinination/interrogation. Flawless, as well as fearless. And, if my damned computer weren't crawling along at a snail's pace, I would've gotten this off to you well over an hour ago.
Best of luck and warmest regards,
Ter
Hi, Terry! Sorry I've been so slow to answer. Must be creeping fossilitis. (Well, actually it's clients who don't know when to shut up and go away. When you're trying to enjoy a good conspiracy, there's nothing more annoying.)
Here we go, and I have to use your color-coordinated quoting conventions, because normal quoting in this, for some reason, is FUBAR. My quotes are still purple, yours'll be whatever I hit upon:
"I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right."
And, wouldn't you venture to say that the CIA, along with their elite backers, considered Nixon to be a "Quaker," so to speak, and beneath their station, financially as well as politically? He was merely being used by them and their Secret Team. Just like they used Carter, to be a fall-guy, in order to justify their positions, as the war-mongering opportunists they actually are. The American people have been continually psy-op'd via Operation Mockingbird ad infinitum [since 1947]. These shysters are the original tricksters behind the supposed "Tricky Dicky" campaign, and assorted similar methods used in fabricating the wool to pull over the eyes of the American sheople, back even before the BoP's Operation. Nixon was nothing more than a hick-shuckster opportunist, along similar lines as LBJ, as far as the elites were concerned, and that's how they dealt with him.
You spake sooth. You also hit the nerve center, I believe.
You may be familiar with this already, but it bears posting; here's what Nixon wrote on Saturday, 20 May 1972, the same day he was leaving on his trip to Moscow (which the CIA used as their window of opportunity to run their covert mission the next weekend, Memorial Day weekend, covering it with their "first break-in" hoax):
There's more on this that I won't get into now, but I will say that CIA had Gerald Ford waiting in the wings, briefed and primed for a secret program in psy-ops that CIA implemented almost two weeks to the day after the 15 September 1972 Watergate indictments were issued. By that time, Nixon was on the thirteenth step of the gallows (though he didn't know it).
Don't dare allow yourself to think about what the foregoing has to do with Wallace getting shot. At least if you're going to, leave the lights on.
"I call on the current President of the United States to use every tool, power, agency, and department under his influence and control to reopen Watergate, and for him to make a public demand for full and unvarnished CIA disclosure of CIA's involvement in the planning and execution of Watergate..."
This is a neo-fascist regime we have in power at the moment. It ain't gonna happen, my friend.
So call me a starry-eyed optimist. (Hell, I just hope he actually isn't the one who was flying the chase plane that Memorial Day weekend. Of course, that is exactly when he was AWOL. Darn.)
"I beseech every thinking, caring American citizen, of whatever station, status, or political persuasion, to demand on every available official line that the Watergate case be reopened..."
If you can get them away from their playstations, soap operas, reality TV shows, moronic game shows, and all commerical channels between 2 and 13, long enough to get their attention.
You musta' skipped the "thinking, caring" part.
For a more serious response: I actually think that what you're describing is partially symptomatic of the head trauma this culture took with Watergate. The country is still in the coma. (This is not to take anything away from the JFK assassination, and I vow that we'll get there.) But something drastically changed with Watergate. It was mass hypnosis. I honestly do believe that the hoax itself, and the way it was played out in the media, had built into it many precise mechanics of the psy-ops you referred to, on a societal level.
It was designed to throw people into a state of effect, into apathy. We went almost overnight from huge activist demonstrations to disco. (From life to coma. Just keep your eyes on the mirror ball while you dance...)
"I entreat educators, researchers, writers, attorneys, and judges to use every line, connection, and influence available to them to make this information known to publications and institutions that can and will move this permanently into broad public view, into the public consciousness, and onto the public agenda..."
Now, I must concede that you'll probably have more luck with this group. Especially if they tend to be like-minded and politically aligned with those of us of the more socially-inclined persuasion.
Now you're talkin'. Let's get them all out of their coma.
"I appeal to honest and responsible journalists, commentators, talk show hosts, and media people in any station or position to use their sphere of influence to make this information known, and to raise a din that will not die down until justice is served and the truth is exposed."
If Congress succeeds in its efforts to pull funding from NPR and similar subsidiaries, we'll definitely be shit out of luck. I seriously doubt you'll be getting any substantial response from the commercial venues. They're all running scared to save their own hides after the recent Dan Rather faux pas.
Anybody want to start up some "Free Press" rags in their towns? That's where I started: on the Kansas City Free Press, and it rattled some cages pretty good. (I learned my command of grammar there, too.)
"I demand our congressional intelligence "oversight committees" to stand aside and let honest people get the job done in disinfecting sunlight. I call on law enforcement agencies and agents to put the first "congressperson" who now attempts to keep any of this behind "closed doors" for "national security" reasons into cuffs as an accessory after the fact, and for misprison of felony."
Hey, "Now Whoa dere, Sapphire!" Do we actually have such things as "legit" oversight committees? These days? It's a REPUBLICAN Congress, totally. You're gonna be pissin' in the wind asking for that kind of cooperation, honey. Earth to Ashton...Earth to Ashton...Come back down to Earth and head directly underground before you become a moving target for Cheney.
Hey, Whoa yourself, Kingfish. You definitely must have missed "stand aside." Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to re-parse the paragraph.
All kidding aside though, your requests and honorable intentions are like a fresh spring rain to my ears and to my sore eyes. But, are we inhabiting the same planet, here? Surely not the same country?
Well, already in this thread you, Dawn, and I are here agreeing that we've been royally screwed without even so much as a peck on the cheek, and that something ought to be done about it. So how many more are there who feel the same way? I honestly do believe that once people catch on, once they get even a glimmer of an idea that they can come out of this mass-hypnosis apathy, that they actually can do something about it, and that there actually is a way out of the maze of federally-funded lies about Watergate, I think you're going to seem some action. (You know, if half the work were put into this that goes into drumming up Republicans to pay $1,000 a plate to listen to Chaney drone away, it'd be a walk in the park.)
Thanks for all your kind words, which I'd choke on repeating. Thanks even more for your interest and intention. A few more like you and Dawn, and Langley is likely to get a crash course in socialization. (Can you teach an ape which fork to eat with?)
Ashton Gray
Here we go, and I have to use your color-coordinated quoting conventions, because normal quoting in this, for some reason, is FUBAR. My quotes are still purple, yours'll be whatever I hit upon:
"I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right."
And, wouldn't you venture to say that the CIA, along with their elite backers, considered Nixon to be a "Quaker," so to speak, and beneath their station, financially as well as politically? He was merely being used by them and their Secret Team. Just like they used Carter, to be a fall-guy, in order to justify their positions, as the war-mongering opportunists they actually are. The American people have been continually psy-op'd via Operation Mockingbird ad infinitum [since 1947]. These shysters are the original tricksters behind the supposed "Tricky Dicky" campaign, and assorted similar methods used in fabricating the wool to pull over the eyes of the American sheople, back even before the BoP's Operation. Nixon was nothing more than a hick-shuckster opportunist, along similar lines as LBJ, as far as the elites were concerned, and that's how they dealt with him.
You spake sooth. You also hit the nerve center, I believe.
You may be familiar with this already, but it bears posting; here's what Nixon wrote on Saturday, 20 May 1972, the same day he was leaving on his trip to Moscow (which the CIA used as their window of opportunity to run their covert mission the next weekend, Memorial Day weekend, covering it with their "first break-in" hoax):
- “The performance in the psychological warfare field is nothing short of disgraceful. The mountain has labored for seven weeks and when it finally produced, it produced not much more than a mouse. Or to put it more honestly, it produced a rat.
“We finally have a program now under way but it totally lacks imagination and I have no confidence whatever that the bureaucracy will carry it out. I do not simply blame (Richard) Helms and the CIA. After all, they do not support my policies because they basically are for the most part Ivy League and Georgetown society oriented.”
—Richard Nixon, excerpted from a letter to Henry Kissinger and Alexander Haig.
There's more on this that I won't get into now, but I will say that CIA had Gerald Ford waiting in the wings, briefed and primed for a secret program in psy-ops that CIA implemented almost two weeks to the day after the 15 September 1972 Watergate indictments were issued. By that time, Nixon was on the thirteenth step of the gallows (though he didn't know it).
Don't dare allow yourself to think about what the foregoing has to do with Wallace getting shot. At least if you're going to, leave the lights on.
"I call on the current President of the United States to use every tool, power, agency, and department under his influence and control to reopen Watergate, and for him to make a public demand for full and unvarnished CIA disclosure of CIA's involvement in the planning and execution of Watergate..."
This is a neo-fascist regime we have in power at the moment. It ain't gonna happen, my friend.
So call me a starry-eyed optimist. (Hell, I just hope he actually isn't the one who was flying the chase plane that Memorial Day weekend. Of course, that is exactly when he was AWOL. Darn.)
"I beseech every thinking, caring American citizen, of whatever station, status, or political persuasion, to demand on every available official line that the Watergate case be reopened..."
If you can get them away from their playstations, soap operas, reality TV shows, moronic game shows, and all commerical channels between 2 and 13, long enough to get their attention.
You musta' skipped the "thinking, caring" part.
For a more serious response: I actually think that what you're describing is partially symptomatic of the head trauma this culture took with Watergate. The country is still in the coma. (This is not to take anything away from the JFK assassination, and I vow that we'll get there.) But something drastically changed with Watergate. It was mass hypnosis. I honestly do believe that the hoax itself, and the way it was played out in the media, had built into it many precise mechanics of the psy-ops you referred to, on a societal level.
It was designed to throw people into a state of effect, into apathy. We went almost overnight from huge activist demonstrations to disco. (From life to coma. Just keep your eyes on the mirror ball while you dance...)
"I entreat educators, researchers, writers, attorneys, and judges to use every line, connection, and influence available to them to make this information known to publications and institutions that can and will move this permanently into broad public view, into the public consciousness, and onto the public agenda..."
Now, I must concede that you'll probably have more luck with this group. Especially if they tend to be like-minded and politically aligned with those of us of the more socially-inclined persuasion.
Now you're talkin'. Let's get them all out of their coma.
"I appeal to honest and responsible journalists, commentators, talk show hosts, and media people in any station or position to use their sphere of influence to make this information known, and to raise a din that will not die down until justice is served and the truth is exposed."
If Congress succeeds in its efforts to pull funding from NPR and similar subsidiaries, we'll definitely be shit out of luck. I seriously doubt you'll be getting any substantial response from the commercial venues. They're all running scared to save their own hides after the recent Dan Rather faux pas.
Anybody want to start up some "Free Press" rags in their towns? That's where I started: on the Kansas City Free Press, and it rattled some cages pretty good. (I learned my command of grammar there, too.)
"I demand our congressional intelligence "oversight committees" to stand aside and let honest people get the job done in disinfecting sunlight. I call on law enforcement agencies and agents to put the first "congressperson" who now attempts to keep any of this behind "closed doors" for "national security" reasons into cuffs as an accessory after the fact, and for misprison of felony."
Hey, "Now Whoa dere, Sapphire!" Do we actually have such things as "legit" oversight committees? These days? It's a REPUBLICAN Congress, totally. You're gonna be pissin' in the wind asking for that kind of cooperation, honey. Earth to Ashton...Earth to Ashton...Come back down to Earth and head directly underground before you become a moving target for Cheney.
Hey, Whoa yourself, Kingfish. You definitely must have missed "stand aside." Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to re-parse the paragraph.
All kidding aside though, your requests and honorable intentions are like a fresh spring rain to my ears and to my sore eyes. But, are we inhabiting the same planet, here? Surely not the same country?
Well, already in this thread you, Dawn, and I are here agreeing that we've been royally screwed without even so much as a peck on the cheek, and that something ought to be done about it. So how many more are there who feel the same way? I honestly do believe that once people catch on, once they get even a glimmer of an idea that they can come out of this mass-hypnosis apathy, that they actually can do something about it, and that there actually is a way out of the maze of federally-funded lies about Watergate, I think you're going to seem some action. (You know, if half the work were put into this that goes into drumming up Republicans to pay $1,000 a plate to listen to Chaney drone away, it'd be a walk in the park.)
Thanks for all your kind words, which I'd choke on repeating. Thanks even more for your interest and intention. A few more like you and Dawn, and Langley is likely to get a crash course in socialization. (Can you teach an ape which fork to eat with?)
Ashton Gray
Those who are interested in actually participating in this debate- rather than demanding a certain poster be forever bansihed from this forum- might do well to actually read this post.
Start here, then go to the questions being asked in these posts and THEN and ONLY then judge if said poster is in violation of said forum rules.
In the meantime, I eagerly await John's return to the forum, as perhaps THEN Attorney Caddy will respond to the questions he has been asked.
He posted that he has no time, busy writing a book, but he clearly has time to post on this part of the forum and the jfk assassination debate, noting that "infiltrators" have "taken over" said forum. Then updates on those posts demanding that said "infiltrator"- Ashton Gray- be banned for violation of forum rules.
Seems to me it would take less time to just answer the questions than all these off- with- his- head posts.
For the record: I am on no one's "side" here. I am on the side of truth.
I would like to believe that all here are share this quest. But I do agree with Jack White that there
are infiltrators on every forum. I just don't happen to agree with Mr Caddy that Ashton is one.
Dawn
Start here, then go to the questions being asked in these posts and THEN and ONLY then judge if said poster is in violation of said forum rules.
In the meantime, I eagerly await John's return to the forum, as perhaps THEN Attorney Caddy will respond to the questions he has been asked.
He posted that he has no time, busy writing a book, but he clearly has time to post on this part of the forum and the jfk assassination debate, noting that "infiltrators" have "taken over" said forum. Then updates on those posts demanding that said "infiltrator"- Ashton Gray- be banned for violation of forum rules.
Seems to me it would take less time to just answer the questions than all these off- with- his- head posts.
For the record: I am on no one's "side" here. I am on the side of truth.
I would like to believe that all here are share this quest. But I do agree with Jack White that there
are infiltrators on every forum. I just don't happen to agree with Mr Caddy that Ashton is one.
Dawn
Sayeth Mr. Gray: "As for Nixon, let me suggest an interesting exercise that I've done myself several times now: with this knowledge of a vast CIA cover-up, go back and read the full transcript of the so-called "smoking gun" tape. I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right."
If there's any PROOF needed that Mr. Gray is a Nixon apologist, this is it. There is NO evidence Nixon suspected the CIA was behind the break-in at this point. His suspicions came later. At this point, as admitted by Haldeman (and probably Nixon--I'll have to re-read his Frost interviews), he was simply looking for an angle to prevent the investigation of a crime he suspected led back to his dirty-tricks specialist, Colson. Hmm. Nixon hired Hunt to fake cables...Ashton Gray concludes there were no cables. Hmmm. Nixon asks Haldeman to convince the CIA to cover-up for him, thereby obstrucing justice...Ashton Gray concludes that Nixon only did this because he felt the CIA were responsible for the break-in, and deserving of the heat... IS THERE A PATTERN HERE OR WHAT?
I ask you again, Mr. Gray, 1) did Richard Nixon engage in impeachable offenses? 2) was he set up for those offenses? 3) would he have not been able to survive his minimal involvement in the break-in itself if not for his own actions? 4) did Jim McCord, Howard Hunt, Douglas Caddy, or Alfred Baldwin cause Nixon to lie to the American public on TV? You have NO BUSINESS hounding Caddy for answers if you refuse to answer them yourself.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right."
If there's any PROOF needed that Mr. Gray is a Nixon apologist, this is it. There is NO evidence Nixon suspected the CIA was behind the break-in at this point. His suspicions came later. At this point, as admitted by Haldeman (and probably Nixon--I'll have to re-read his Frost interviews), he was simply looking for an angle to prevent the investigation of a crime he suspected led back to his dirty-tricks specialist, Colson. Hmm. Nixon hired Hunt to fake cables...Ashton Gray concludes there were no cables. Hmmm. Nixon asks Haldeman to convince the CIA to cover-up for him, thereby obstrucing justice...Ashton Gray concludes that Nixon only did this because he felt the CIA were responsible for the break-in, and deserving of the heat... IS THERE A PATTERN HERE OR WHAT?
I ask you again, Mr. Gray, 1) did Richard Nixon engage in impeachable offenses? 2) was he set up for those offenses? 3) would he have not been able to survive his minimal involvement in the break-in itself if not for his own actions? 4) did Jim McCord, Howard Hunt, Douglas Caddy, or Alfred Baldwin cause Nixon to lie to the American public on TV? You have NO BUSINESS hounding Caddy for answers if you refuse to answer them yourself.
QUOTE
Do you think Nixon was blackmailing them, threatening to reveal information re the assassination of JFK?
No, Hunt was, tacitly. Of course, he never would have revealed anything, but he had lots of leverage.
Regards,
JG
[quote name='Pat Speer' date='Jun 28 2006, 01:14 AM' post='66623']
Sayeth Mr. Gray: "As for Nixon, let me suggest an interesting exercise that I've done myself several times now: with this knowledge of a vast CIA cover-up, go back and read the full transcript of the so-called "smoking gun" tape. I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right."
If there's any PROOF needed that Mr. Gray is a Nixon apologist, this is it. There is NO evidence Nixon suspected the CIA was behind the break-in at this point. His suspicions came later. At this point, as admitted by Haldeman (and probably Nixon--I'll have to re-read his Frost interviews), he was simply looking for an angle to prevent the investigation of a crime he suspected led back to his dirty-tricks specialist, Colson. Hmm. Nixon hired Hunt to fake cables...Ashton Gray concludes there were no cables. Hmmm. Nixon asks Haldeman to convince the CIA to cover-up for him, thereby obstrucing justice...Ashton Gray concludes that Nixon only did this because he felt the CIA were responsible for the break-in, and deserving of the heat... IS THERE A PATTERN HERE OR WHAT?
I ask you again, Mr. Gray, 1) did Richard Nixon engage in impeachable offenses? 2) was he set up for those offenses? 3) would he have not been able to survive his minimal involvement in the break-in itself if not for his own actions? 4) did Jim McCord, Howard Hunt, Douglas Caddy, or Alfred Baldwin cause Nixon to lie to the American public on TV? You have NO BUSINESS hounding Caddy for answers if you refuse to answer them yourself.
[/quote]
Oh my god, this just goes round and round....
Pat I do not think Ashton is going to dignify these absurd- on- their- face questions. In fact he has already said "there are more than enough hooks to go around". (Referring toTricky Dick).
This is NOT either/or Pat. It is BOTH are true. Nixon was a lying rotten crook who deserved to be trhown out of office. And, imho, he was set up. Period.
I take it then you don't believe Watergate was any kind of a set up, that Mr. McCord was genuinly trying NOT TO GET CAUGHT???
No-one "caused" Nixon to lie EVER, he lied on a regular basis, from his famous "Republican cloth coat" speech (a/k/a known as "Checkers".) to this "Your president is not a crook" speech.
Dawn
Oh and Ashton is NOT related to Pat Gray, but I am assuming here, you asked this question in jest????
Sayeth Mr. Gray: "As for Nixon, let me suggest an interesting exercise that I've done myself several times now: with this knowledge of a vast CIA cover-up, go back and read the full transcript of the so-called "smoking gun" tape. I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right."
If there's any PROOF needed that Mr. Gray is a Nixon apologist, this is it. There is NO evidence Nixon suspected the CIA was behind the break-in at this point. His suspicions came later. At this point, as admitted by Haldeman (and probably Nixon--I'll have to re-read his Frost interviews), he was simply looking for an angle to prevent the investigation of a crime he suspected led back to his dirty-tricks specialist, Colson. Hmm. Nixon hired Hunt to fake cables...Ashton Gray concludes there were no cables. Hmmm. Nixon asks Haldeman to convince the CIA to cover-up for him, thereby obstrucing justice...Ashton Gray concludes that Nixon only did this because he felt the CIA were responsible for the break-in, and deserving of the heat... IS THERE A PATTERN HERE OR WHAT?
I ask you again, Mr. Gray, 1) did Richard Nixon engage in impeachable offenses? 2) was he set up for those offenses? 3) would he have not been able to survive his minimal involvement in the break-in itself if not for his own actions? 4) did Jim McCord, Howard Hunt, Douglas Caddy, or Alfred Baldwin cause Nixon to lie to the American public on TV? You have NO BUSINESS hounding Caddy for answers if you refuse to answer them yourself.
[/quote]
Oh my god, this just goes round and round....
Pat I do not think Ashton is going to dignify these absurd- on- their- face questions. In fact he has already said "there are more than enough hooks to go around". (Referring toTricky Dick).
This is NOT either/or Pat. It is BOTH are true. Nixon was a lying rotten crook who deserved to be trhown out of office. And, imho, he was set up. Period.
I take it then you don't believe Watergate was any kind of a set up, that Mr. McCord was genuinly trying NOT TO GET CAUGHT???
No-one "caused" Nixon to lie EVER, he lied on a regular basis, from his famous "Republican cloth coat" speech (a/k/a known as "Checkers".) to this "Your president is not a crook" speech.
Dawn
Oh and Ashton is NOT related to Pat Gray, but I am assuming here, you asked this question in jest????
[quote name='Dawn Meredith' date='Jun 29 2006, 03:01 PM' post='66671']
[quote name='Pat Speer' date='Jun 28 2006, 01:14 AM' post='66623']
Sayeth Mr. Gray: "As for Nixon, let me suggest an interesting exercise that I've done myself several times now: with this knowledge of a vast CIA cover-up, go back and read the full transcript of the so-called "smoking gun" tape. I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right."
If there's any PROOF needed that Mr. Gray is a Nixon apologist, this is it. There is NO evidence Nixon suspected the CIA was behind the break-in at this point. His suspicions came later. At this point, as admitted by Haldeman (and probably Nixon--I'll have to re-read his Frost interviews), he was simply looking for an angle to prevent the investigation of a crime he suspected led back to his dirty-tricks specialist, Colson. Hmm. Nixon hired Hunt to fake cables...Ashton Gray concludes there were no cables. Hmmm. Nixon asks Haldeman to convince the CIA to cover-up for him, thereby obstrucing justice...Ashton Gray concludes that Nixon only did this because he felt the CIA were responsible for the break-in, and deserving of the heat... IS THERE A PATTERN HERE OR WHAT?
I ask you again, Mr. Gray, 1) did Richard Nixon engage in impeachable offenses? 2) was he set up for those offenses? 3) would he have not been able to survive his minimal involvement in the break-in itself if not for his own actions? 4) did Jim McCord, Howard Hunt, Douglas Caddy, or Alfred Baldwin cause Nixon to lie to the American public on TV? You have NO BUSINESS hounding Caddy for answers if you refuse to answer them yourself.
[/quote]
Oh my god, this just goes round and round....
Pat I do not think Ashton is going to dignify these absurd- on- their- face questions. In fact he has already said "there are more than enough hooks to go around". (Referring toTricky Dick).
This is NOT either/or Pat. It is BOTH are true. Nixon was a lying rotten crook who deserved to be trhown out of office. And, imho, he was set up. Period.
I take it then you don't believe Watergate was any kind of a set up, that Mr. McCord was genuinly trying NOT TO GET CAUGHT???
No-one "caused" Nixon to lie EVER, he lied on a regular basis, from his famous "Republican cloth coat" speech (a/k/a known as "Checkers".) to this "Your president is not a crook" speech.
Dawn
Oh and Ashton is NOT related to Pat Gray, but I am assuming here, you asked this question in jest????
[/quote]
**************************************************************
"This is NOT either/or Pat. It is, BOTH are true. Nixon was a lying rotten crook who deserved to be thown out of office. And, imho, he was set up. Period.
I take it then you don't believe Watergate was any kind of a set up, that Mr. McCord was genuinly trying NOT TO GET CAUGHT???
No-one "caused" Nixon to lie EVER, he lied on a regular basis, from his famous "Republican cloth coat" speech (a/k/a known as "Checkers".) to this, "Your president is not a crook." speech.
Yeah Pat, nobody's cutting Nixon any slack here. They're just stating the facts as they stand. Just another, "patsy" syndrome, if you will, except that Nixon was guilty, albeit witless in his own attempts to whitewash his bumbling ineptitude in the office of the presidency, and his paranoia associated with that Bay of Pigs remark.
[quote name='Pat Speer' date='Jun 28 2006, 01:14 AM' post='66623']
Sayeth Mr. Gray: "As for Nixon, let me suggest an interesting exercise that I've done myself several times now: with this knowledge of a vast CIA cover-up, go back and read the full transcript of the so-called "smoking gun" tape. I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right."
If there's any PROOF needed that Mr. Gray is a Nixon apologist, this is it. There is NO evidence Nixon suspected the CIA was behind the break-in at this point. His suspicions came later. At this point, as admitted by Haldeman (and probably Nixon--I'll have to re-read his Frost interviews), he was simply looking for an angle to prevent the investigation of a crime he suspected led back to his dirty-tricks specialist, Colson. Hmm. Nixon hired Hunt to fake cables...Ashton Gray concludes there were no cables. Hmmm. Nixon asks Haldeman to convince the CIA to cover-up for him, thereby obstrucing justice...Ashton Gray concludes that Nixon only did this because he felt the CIA were responsible for the break-in, and deserving of the heat... IS THERE A PATTERN HERE OR WHAT?
I ask you again, Mr. Gray, 1) did Richard Nixon engage in impeachable offenses? 2) was he set up for those offenses? 3) would he have not been able to survive his minimal involvement in the break-in itself if not for his own actions? 4) did Jim McCord, Howard Hunt, Douglas Caddy, or Alfred Baldwin cause Nixon to lie to the American public on TV? You have NO BUSINESS hounding Caddy for answers if you refuse to answer them yourself.
[/quote]
Oh my god, this just goes round and round....
Pat I do not think Ashton is going to dignify these absurd- on- their- face questions. In fact he has already said "there are more than enough hooks to go around". (Referring toTricky Dick).
This is NOT either/or Pat. It is BOTH are true. Nixon was a lying rotten crook who deserved to be trhown out of office. And, imho, he was set up. Period.
I take it then you don't believe Watergate was any kind of a set up, that Mr. McCord was genuinly trying NOT TO GET CAUGHT???
No-one "caused" Nixon to lie EVER, he lied on a regular basis, from his famous "Republican cloth coat" speech (a/k/a known as "Checkers".) to this "Your president is not a crook" speech.
Dawn
Oh and Ashton is NOT related to Pat Gray, but I am assuming here, you asked this question in jest????
[/quote]
**************************************************************
"This is NOT either/or Pat. It is, BOTH are true. Nixon was a lying rotten crook who deserved to be thown out of office. And, imho, he was set up. Period.
I take it then you don't believe Watergate was any kind of a set up, that Mr. McCord was genuinly trying NOT TO GET CAUGHT???
No-one "caused" Nixon to lie EVER, he lied on a regular basis, from his famous "Republican cloth coat" speech (a/k/a known as "Checkers".) to this, "Your president is not a crook." speech.
Yeah Pat, nobody's cutting Nixon any slack here. They're just stating the facts as they stand. Just another, "patsy" syndrome, if you will, except that Nixon was guilty, albeit witless in his own attempts to whitewash his bumbling ineptitude in the office of the presidency, and his paranoia associated with that Bay of Pigs remark.
QUOTE (Ashton Gray @ Jun 20 2006, 12:59 AM)
Hi, Terry! Sorry I've been so slow to answer. Must be creeping fossilitis. (Well, actually it's clients who don't know when to shut up and go away. When you're trying to enjoy a good conspiracy, there's nothing more annoying.)
Here we go, and I have to use your color-coordinated quoting conventions, because normal quoting in this, for some reason, is FUBAR. My quotes are still purple, yours'll be whatever I hit upon:
"I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right."
And, wouldn't you venture to say that the CIA, along with their elite backers, considered Nixon to be a "Quaker," so to speak, and beneath their station, financially as well as politically? He was merely being used by them and their Secret Team. Just like they used Carter, to be a fall-guy, in order to justify their positions, as the war-mongering opportunists they actually are. The American people have been continually psy-op'd via Operation Mockingbird ad infinitum [since 1947]. These shysters are the original tricksters behind the supposed "Tricky Dicky" campaign, and assorted similar methods used in fabricating the wool to pull over the eyes of the American sheople, back even before the BoP's Operation. Nixon was nothing more than a hick-shuckster opportunist, along similar lines as LBJ, as far as the elites were concerned, and that's how they dealt with him.
You spake sooth. You also hit the nerve center, I believe.
You may be familiar with this already, but it bears posting; here's what Nixon wrote on Saturday, 20 May 1972, the same day he was leaving on his trip to Moscow (which the CIA used as their window of opportunity to run their covert mission the next weekend, Memorial Day weekend, covering it with their "first break-in" hoax):
There's more on this that I won't get into now, but I will say that CIA had Gerald Ford waiting in the wings, briefed and primed for a secret program in psy-ops that CIA implemented almost two weeks to the day after the 15 September 1972 Watergate indictments were issued. By that time, Nixon was on the thirteenth step of the gallows (though he didn't know it).
Don't dare allow yourself to think about what the foregoing has to do with Wallace getting shot. At least if you're going to, leave the lights on.
"I call on the current President of the United States to use every tool, power, agency, and department under his influence and control to reopen Watergate, and for him to make a public demand for full and unvarnished CIA disclosure of CIA's involvement in the planning and execution of Watergate..."
This is a neo-fascist regime we have in power at the moment. It ain't gonna happen, my friend.
So call me a starry-eyed optimist. (Hell, I just hope he actually isn't the one who was flying the chase plane that Memorial Day weekend. Of course, that is exactly when he was AWOL. Darn.)
"I beseech every thinking, caring American citizen, of whatever station, status, or political persuasion, to demand on every available official line that the Watergate case be reopened..."
If you can get them away from their playstations, soap operas, reality TV shows, moronic game shows, and all commerical channels between 2 and 13, long enough to get their attention.
You musta' skipped the "thinking, caring" part.
For a more serious response: I actually think that what you're describing is partially symptomatic of the head trauma this culture took with Watergate. The country is still in the coma. (This is not to take anything away from the JFK assassination, and I vow that we'll get there.) But something drastically changed with Watergate. It was mass hypnosis. I honestly do believe that the hoax itself, and the way it was played out in the media, had built into it many precise mechanics of the psy-ops you referred to, on a societal level.
It was designed to throw people into a state of effect, into apathy. We went almost overnight from huge activist demonstrations to disco. (From life to coma. Just keep your eyes on the mirror ball while you dance...)
"I entreat educators, researchers, writers, attorneys, and judges to use every line, connection, and influence available to them to make this information known to publications and institutions that can and will move this permanently into broad public view, into the public consciousness, and onto the public agenda..."
Now, I must concede that you'll probably have more luck with this group. Especially if they tend to be like-minded and politically aligned with those of us of the more socially-inclined persuasion.
Now you're talkin'. Let's get them all out of their coma.
"I appeal to honest and responsible journalists, commentators, talk show hosts, and media people in any station or position to use their sphere of influence to make this information known, and to raise a din that will not die down until justice is served and the truth is exposed."
If Congress succeeds in its efforts to pull funding from NPR and similar subsidiaries, we'll definitely be shit out of luck. I seriously doubt you'll be getting any substantial response from the commercial venues. They're all running scared to save their own hides after the recent Dan Rather faux pas.
Anybody want to start up some "Free Press" rags in their towns? That's where I started: on the Kansas City Free Press, and it rattled some cages pretty good. (I learned my command of grammar there, too.)
"I demand our congressional intelligence "oversight committees" to stand aside and let honest people get the job done in disinfecting sunlight. I call on law enforcement agencies and agents to put the first "congressperson" who now attempts to keep any of this behind "closed doors" for "national security" reasons into cuffs as an accessory after the fact, and for misprison of felony."
Hey, "Now Whoa dere, Sapphire!" Do we actually have such things as "legit" oversight committees? These days? It's a REPUBLICAN Congress, totally. You're gonna be pissin' in the wind asking for that kind of cooperation, honey. Earth to Ashton...Earth to Ashton...Come back down to Earth and head directly underground before you become a moving target for Cheney.
Hey, Whoa yourself, Kingfish. You definitely must have missed "stand aside." Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to re-parse the paragraph.
All kidding aside though, your requests and honorable intentions are like a fresh spring rain to my ears and to my sore eyes. But, are we inhabiting the same planet, here? Surely not the same country?
Well, already in this thread you, Dawn, and I are here agreeing that we've been royally screwed without even so much as a peck on the cheek, and that something ought to be done about it. So how many more are there who feel the same way? I honestly do believe that once people catch on, once they get even a glimmer of an idea that they can come out of this mass-hypnosis apathy, that they actually can do something about it, and that there actually is a way out of the maze of federally-funded lies about Watergate, I think you're going to seem some action. (You know, if half the work were put into this that goes into drumming up Republicans to pay $1,000 a plate to listen to Chaney drone away, it'd be a walk in the park.)
Thanks for all your kind words, which I'd choke on repeating. Thanks even more for your interest and intention. A few more like you and Dawn, and Langley is likely to get a crash course in socialization. (Can you teach an ape which fork to eat with?)
Ashton Gray
Here we go, and I have to use your color-coordinated quoting conventions, because normal quoting in this, for some reason, is FUBAR. My quotes are still purple, yours'll be whatever I hit upon:
"I've never been any fan of Nixon, and I have no doubt that he had his own sins that made him as blind as he was and vulnerable to exactly what happened to him, but the man was just being turned around and around like the blindfolded dupe in a vicious "pin the tail on the donkey" game.
The only reason his so-called "cover up" fumbling instructions were issued was because he was being told that the FBI had concluded that they were up against a CIA op, and so was playing the little bit of hardball he could to get the heat off the White House and onto CIA where he felt it belonged.
On that count, he was dead right."
And, wouldn't you venture to say that the CIA, along with their elite backers, considered Nixon to be a "Quaker," so to speak, and beneath their station, financially as well as politically? He was merely being used by them and their Secret Team. Just like they used Carter, to be a fall-guy, in order to justify their positions, as the war-mongering opportunists they actually are. The American people have been continually psy-op'd via Operation Mockingbird ad infinitum [since 1947]. These shysters are the original tricksters behind the supposed "Tricky Dicky" campaign, and assorted similar methods used in fabricating the wool to pull over the eyes of the American sheople, back even before the BoP's Operation. Nixon was nothing more than a hick-shuckster opportunist, along similar lines as LBJ, as far as the elites were concerned, and that's how they dealt with him.
You spake sooth. You also hit the nerve center, I believe.
You may be familiar with this already, but it bears posting; here's what Nixon wrote on Saturday, 20 May 1972, the same day he was leaving on his trip to Moscow (which the CIA used as their window of opportunity to run their covert mission the next weekend, Memorial Day weekend, covering it with their "first break-in" hoax):
- “The performance in the psychological warfare field is nothing short of disgraceful. The mountain has labored for seven weeks and when it finally produced, it produced not much more than a mouse. Or to put it more honestly, it produced a rat.
“We finally have a program now under way but it totally lacks imagination and I have no confidence whatever that the bureaucracy will carry it out. I do not simply blame (Richard) Helms and the CIA. After all, they do not support my policies because they basically are for the most part Ivy League and Georgetown society oriented.”
—Richard Nixon, excerpted from a letter to Henry Kissinger and Alexander Haig.
There's more on this that I won't get into now, but I will say that CIA had Gerald Ford waiting in the wings, briefed and primed for a secret program in psy-ops that CIA implemented almost two weeks to the day after the 15 September 1972 Watergate indictments were issued. By that time, Nixon was on the thirteenth step of the gallows (though he didn't know it).
Don't dare allow yourself to think about what the foregoing has to do with Wallace getting shot. At least if you're going to, leave the lights on.
"I call on the current President of the United States to use every tool, power, agency, and department under his influence and control to reopen Watergate, and for him to make a public demand for full and unvarnished CIA disclosure of CIA's involvement in the planning and execution of Watergate..."
This is a neo-fascist regime we have in power at the moment. It ain't gonna happen, my friend.
So call me a starry-eyed optimist. (Hell, I just hope he actually isn't the one who was flying the chase plane that Memorial Day weekend. Of course, that is exactly when he was AWOL. Darn.)
"I beseech every thinking, caring American citizen, of whatever station, status, or political persuasion, to demand on every available official line that the Watergate case be reopened..."
If you can get them away from their playstations, soap operas, reality TV shows, moronic game shows, and all commerical channels between 2 and 13, long enough to get their attention.
You musta' skipped the "thinking, caring" part.
For a more serious response: I actually think that what you're describing is partially symptomatic of the head trauma this culture took with Watergate. The country is still in the coma. (This is not to take anything away from the JFK assassination, and I vow that we'll get there.) But something drastically changed with Watergate. It was mass hypnosis. I honestly do believe that the hoax itself, and the way it was played out in the media, had built into it many precise mechanics of the psy-ops you referred to, on a societal level.
It was designed to throw people into a state of effect, into apathy. We went almost overnight from huge activist demonstrations to disco. (From life to coma. Just keep your eyes on the mirror ball while you dance...)
"I entreat educators, researchers, writers, attorneys, and judges to use every line, connection, and influence available to them to make this information known to publications and institutions that can and will move this permanently into broad public view, into the public consciousness, and onto the public agenda..."
Now, I must concede that you'll probably have more luck with this group. Especially if they tend to be like-minded and politically aligned with those of us of the more socially-inclined persuasion.
Now you're talkin'. Let's get them all out of their coma.
"I appeal to honest and responsible journalists, commentators, talk show hosts, and media people in any station or position to use their sphere of influence to make this information known, and to raise a din that will not die down until justice is served and the truth is exposed."
If Congress succeeds in its efforts to pull funding from NPR and similar subsidiaries, we'll definitely be shit out of luck. I seriously doubt you'll be getting any substantial response from the commercial venues. They're all running scared to save their own hides after the recent Dan Rather faux pas.
Anybody want to start up some "Free Press" rags in their towns? That's where I started: on the Kansas City Free Press, and it rattled some cages pretty good. (I learned my command of grammar there, too.)
"I demand our congressional intelligence "oversight committees" to stand aside and let honest people get the job done in disinfecting sunlight. I call on law enforcement agencies and agents to put the first "congressperson" who now attempts to keep any of this behind "closed doors" for "national security" reasons into cuffs as an accessory after the fact, and for misprison of felony."
Hey, "Now Whoa dere, Sapphire!" Do we actually have such things as "legit" oversight committees? These days? It's a REPUBLICAN Congress, totally. You're gonna be pissin' in the wind asking for that kind of cooperation, honey. Earth to Ashton...Earth to Ashton...Come back down to Earth and head directly underground before you become a moving target for Cheney.
Hey, Whoa yourself, Kingfish. You definitely must have missed "stand aside." Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to re-parse the paragraph.
All kidding aside though, your requests and honorable intentions are like a fresh spring rain to my ears and to my sore eyes. But, are we inhabiting the same planet, here? Surely not the same country?
Well, already in this thread you, Dawn, and I are here agreeing that we've been royally screwed without even so much as a peck on the cheek, and that something ought to be done about it. So how many more are there who feel the same way? I honestly do believe that once people catch on, once they get even a glimmer of an idea that they can come out of this mass-hypnosis apathy, that they actually can do something about it, and that there actually is a way out of the maze of federally-funded lies about Watergate, I think you're going to seem some action. (You know, if half the work were put into this that goes into drumming up Republicans to pay $1,000 a plate to listen to Chaney drone away, it'd be a walk in the park.)
Thanks for all your kind words, which I'd choke on repeating. Thanks even more for your interest and intention. A few more like you and Dawn, and Langley is likely to get a crash course in socialization. (Can you teach an ape which fork to eat with?)
Ashton Gray
********************************************************
"Hey, Whoa yourself, Kingfish. You definitely must have missed "stand aside." Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to re-parse the paragraph."
But boss, where are we going to find those "honest people" to get the job done, without risking them being harrassed by the DHS [which is really supposed to stand for Department of Health Services, and NOT for Department of Homeland "Sieg Heil" Security]? Don't you see, boss? They've all been conditioned to view their world through "1984/Animal Farm" glasses.
Your faithful servant,
Birmingham
Hey folks, if you can't interject a little humor here, you're at risk for imploding at any moment.
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