The following timeline first was posted in another topic in this forum: R. Spencer Oliver. Although relevant to issues raised in that thread, it is being put here in its own topic because of interest that has been expressed in discussing its larger ramifications. This first post in this thread merely lays out the timeline as it was in the original thread. It may be edited and expanded later on, but just as it is it provides documented data for a considerable amount of discussion.

Before posting this timeline I want to point out a governing precept: this timeline does not reach, even remotely (pun intended), to the relative validity of Scientology or any part thereof, or to the real or imagined or alleged character of its founder, L. Ron Hubbard, or to the activities, beliefs, or character of any Scientologist not involved in the CIA-related events at issue. Whatever you or I or anyone might think personally about any of the above—whether informed, uninformed, misinformed, or disinformed—is wholly irrelevant to the facts in this time line. It also is wholly irrelevant to this thread and this topic, and I am going to overtly ask here that moderators keep such irrelevancies out of this thread, recognizing those irrelevancies as efforts to distract and destroy discussion of this subject. Such tactics always and invariably are efforts to distract and disrupt.

I have seen this exact methodology used repeatedly in other forums to destroy responsible and rational discussion of the CIA's involvement with top-level Scientology OTs in developing CIA's remote viewing program, and the same irresponsible and destructive tactics have been used right here in these forums just hours before my origination of this topic.

The tactic always is to attempt to steer all discussion away from the CIA's activities, and to focus attention and discussion onto the relative merits or demerits of Scientology itself and its founder. In every case I have seen, always there are attempts at making the following associations to stir up instant hatreds and off-topic rants with hot buttons (this list being inclusive, not exclusive): Jim Jones; Jonestown; poisoned Kool-Aid; space aliens; Charles Manson; cults; Aleister Crowley; black magic (magick); Hubbard's military record; fraud; tax evasion.

All of it is completely irrelevant to what the CIA did vis-a-vis Scientology. In fact, a case could be made (but I won't be making it in this thread—maybe another topic) for the CIA itself, and allied factions of the U.S. Federal Government, being the actual source of the majority of just such invidious associations, these concepts and condemnations having been seeded as part of the massive smoke screen that CIA has hidden its Scientology connections behind for over 30 years.

Regardless of how such tabloid-quality concepts came into currency, all still are entirely irrelevant to the facts at issue, one of the most salient facts being that on 1 October 1972, while Watergate was dominating headlines around the world, the CIA entered into a top secret contract with two high-level Scientology "Operating Thetans"—Hal Puthoff and Ingo Swann—both of whom had U.S. intelligence backgrounds and high-level clearances: Puthoff having worked for NSA prior to entering Scientology and rising to its highest level, Swann having been in military intelligence and having worked at the United Nations before entering Scientology. Within only weeks (if even that) of the 1 October 1972 secret contract, CIA added another top-level Scientologist, Pat Price, to this central core of Scientologists who established and controlled the CIA's remote viewing program that ran for over 25 years in supreme secrecy.

So regardless of what anyone thinks about Scientology or its founder, what is at issue, what matters, and what is relevant to these discussions is what CIA thought about it at the time, and why CIA went to such extreme lengths to keep this unholy marriage (a borrowed metaphor) such a tightly guarded secret for so long—even through all the celebrated congressional "investigations" into CIA activities in the 1970s. Efforts to steer this thread off of its focus on what CIA did, and onto Scientology itself, and efforts to smear and discredit the subject of Scientology itself, its founder, its adherents, and forum members who want to discuss CIA's role in relationship to Scientology, should be seen for exactly what they are: attempts to derail the discussion of CIA's activities related to Scientology, and the possible relevance and connection of CIA's remote viewing program to the events known as Watergate. As soon as I post this timeline, I am PMing the moderators with the names of four forum members who I predict will find every excuse imaginable to do just exactly that.

Here is the timeline:

Sunday, 4 June 1972
It is one week to the day after the purported "first break-in" at the Watergate, and the simultaneous disappearance of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard in Morocco over Memorial Day weekend 1972. On this date Ingo Swann—a Scientology OT VII—departs New York City by plane for San Francisco, where he is met by NSA's Hal Puthoff—also a Scientology OT VII—and taken to Stanford Research Institute (SRI). Puthoff has offices at SRI with Russell Targ, who has been working secretly with CIA for some time on developing parapsychology for military intelligence purposes. [NOTE: New York City is the location of the backstopped address set up the previous year by Anthony Ulasewicz under Operation Sandwedge, just blocks from the lab of CIA's Cleve Backster, with whom Swann has been conducting experiments in telekinesis. While noting that Swann's trip to meet with Puthoff and CIA in California comes one week after the purported "first break-in" at the Watergate and the simultaneous disappearance of Hubbard, it must also be noted, in the "amazing coincidences" department, that Swann later will travel to Washington, D.C. one week after the upcoming 17 June "break-in" at the Watergate—in which the CIA-connected perps are "caught" and begin volunteering self-incriminating stories about their whereabouts over Memorial Day weekend (See 24 c. June 1972.)]

Tuesday, 6 June 1972
Ingo Swann remotely affects a superconducting magnetometer encased in solid concrete five feet beneath the foundation of the Varian Hall of Physics, Stanford University, causing significant readings on the device's trace charts. The event is witnessed by Dr. Arthur Hebard (sometimes spelled "Hebbard"), Dr. Marshal Lee, and six "doctoral candidates" (allegedly students of Hebard, but including CIA representatives who are involved with Swann, Puthoff, and Targ).

Wednesday, 7 June 1972
Puthoff and Swann meet with Willis Harmon, head of a CIA front called "Educational Policy Research Center" with offices at SRI and in Washington, D.C.

Thursday, 8 June 1972
Swann meets with CIA-connected psychiatrist and neurosurgeon Shafica Karagulla at the home of William Tiller.

Friday, 9 June 1972
Ingo Swann returns to New York City. On the same day John Paul Vann—who earlier had been closely connected in Vietnam with CIA's Lucien Conein, Daniel Ellsberg, and Neil Sheehan (reporter who "leaked" the Pentagon Papers for Ellsberg)—dies in a freakish helicopter crash in Vietnam that involves no enemy engagement.

Saturday, 17 June 1972
The "break-in" takes place at the Watergate hotel, in which CIA-connected men are "caught" inside DNC headquarters (although it requires two tapings of an entrance door to effect their getting "caught"). After attorney Douglas Caddy arrives at the D.C. jail (purportedly at the behest of CIA's E. Howard Hunt and G. Gordon Liddy), CIA's James McCord volunteers to Washington, D.C. policeman Gary Bittenbender: "These are all good men, ex-CIA men." Sweeps of DNC headquarters conducted by FBI and police find no bugs installed.

Sunday, 18 June 1972
Kathleen Chenow, who has worked for almost a year with Hunt and Liddy in "Room 16," with scrambled lines to CIA headquarters at Langley, suddenly leaves the United States for a "vacation" in London. On the same day—the very day after the "break-in" carried out by CIA assets—Ingo Swann arrives in Northfield, Minnesota at the "annual retreat" of the Spiritual Frontiers Foundation (SFF). [NOTE: SFF is heavily funded by W. Clement Stone, to whose foundation in Chicago E. Howard Hunt has delivered an envelope of cash, given to him by G. Gordon Liddy, about six weeks earlier.]

Monday, 19 June 1972
Martha Mitchell calls a reporter late at night from a private villa of the Hyatt Newporter Hotel at 1107 Jamboree Road in Newport Beach, California. Acting FBI Director L. Patrick Gray is staying at the same hotel. Martha Mitchell is telling the reporter: "I saw dirty things. I know dirty things." The telephone cord is ripped from the wall. Martha Mitchell is forcefully thrown down onto the bed and forcibly given a shot in the buttocks. [NOTE: She won't be seen or heard from again for over a week, when she surfaces, bruised, in Westchester, New York for a "press conference" just miles from a CIA-connected psychiatric hospital euphemistically referred to as the "Westchester Country Club."

Tuesday, 20 June 1972
L. Patrick Gray only now returns to Washington, D.C. from California. The same morning he arrives, it's confirmed that John Dean will be handling all aspects of the Watergate investigation for the White House. That puts John Dean at the White House and L. Patrick Gray at the FBI solely in charge of every aspect of the investigation to follow. Everything that happens regarding the investigation from this point forward is under their dual control. On or around the same day, Bernard Barker receives $17,000 for bail money from E. Howard Hunt's wife, Dorothy Hunt, plus "ten- to twelve-thousand dollars" for "expenses." The same day L. Patrick Gray meets with FBI Special Agents conducting the investigation and they discuss amongst themselves that "there could be a CIA operation involved." The same day G. Gordon Liddy (with "special clearances" from CIA) meets at Fred LaRue's apartment with LaRue and Robert Mardian and weaves a complicated (and completely unsubstantiated) tale of Liddy and Hunt having been involved with breaking into Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office, interfering with Dita Beard, and having allegedly broken into the DNC on Memorial Day weekend. [NOTE: Robert Mardian is the person who had approached Liddy in December of 1970—shortly after both E. Howard Hunt and James McCord had "retired" from CIA—and asked Liddy to take a position Mardian described as "super confidential." Within six months of the Mardian offer, Liddy was in "the Plumbers" unit inside the White House staff with Hunt, both working with NSA's David Young. Hal Puthoff also is from NSA.]

Wednesday, 21 June 1972
E. Howard Hunt has flown first to New York, stayed overnight, and flown from there to Los Angeles, California. He is staying at the L.A. home of "former" CIA operative Morton B. "Tony" Jackson. G. Gordon Liddy—who has "special clearances" from CIA—flies to L.A. and meets with Hunt and Jackson. On the same day, Judge Charles Richey has been assigned to hear a civil suit filed by the Democratic National Committee against the Committee to Re-Elect the President Watergate. [NOTE: Within a few years, Charles Richey will be the federal judge who throws out Scientology Guardian Office Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and conspiracy cases naming the FBI, the Director of the FBI, the Attorney General, the CIA, the Director of Central Intelligence, the Director of the National Security Agency (NSA), the Secretary of the Treasury, and the Secretary of the Army. Ritchey will go on later to preside over the criminal trial of Mary Sue Hubbard and 10 members of Scientology's Guardian's Office who are accused of stealing federal documents, and subsequently sentenced to prison. House Majority Leader Hale Boggs is Vice Chairman of the Democratic National Committee.]

Thursday, 22 June 1972
The FBI interviews Charles Colson and ostensibly come away with the belief that Watergate is "a CIA thing." Acting FBI Director Gray calls CIA Director Richard Helms and purportedly says, "I think we've run right into the middle of a CIA covert operation." Helms asserts emphatically, "there is no CIA involvement." But Helms also makes a very strange and ambiguous "request" to Gray: "not to interview the two CIA men" (unnamed). Gray immediately issues the order to his Special Agents in charge of the Watergate investigation, telling SA Bates: "there was some CIA involvement here," and that "we should proceed very gingerly and very discreetly and carry out the investigation at the Banco Internationale, and also continue to try to trace these checks through the correspondent banks, but to hold off interviewing Mr. Ogarrio"—the Mexican lawyer through which part of the money found on Watergate burglars had come. Ken Dahlberg, source of the rest of the money, is also obliquely and ambiguously included in this hold-off. After his discussion with Richard Helms and the issuances of his orders, L. Patrick Gray has a late-evening private meeting with John Dean.[NOTE: The contradictions and conflicts in the accounts of this "possible CIA involvement" phase, and the ambiguity of the reference to a rigorously unidentified pair, "two CIA men," has no equal in all the rest of Watergate—which is saying a lot. It is literally impossible to catalog all the contradictions here, but this note is to mark this extraordinary vortex of confusion, particularly about an alleged pair of "two CIA men," when in fact all the perps involved in the break-in could be described as "CIA men."]

Friday, 23 June 1972
Acting FBI Diretor L. Patrick Gray receives an airgram from the Legal Attaché Copenhagen with the subject "L. Ron Hubbard." It encloses other airgrams captioned "The Church of Scientology in Denmark" (one of the few locations in the world at the time where the Scientology "OT Levels" are delivered). Richard M. Nixon has a breakfast meeting with House Minority Leader Gerald Ford and House Majority Leader Hale Boggs—both of whom had been members of the Warren Commission. Ford is a prominent member of the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee. Boggs is Vice Chairman of the Democratic National Committee. Later the same morning, H.R. Haldeman, after hearing from Dean (who had met with Gray the night before) briefs Nixon. Haldeman says specifically: "the way to handle this now is for us to have [Deputy CIA Director Vernon] Walters call Pat Gray and just say, 'Stay the hell out of this...this is ah, business here we don't want you to go any further on it.' That's not an unusual development...and, uh, that would take care of it. ...Pat [Gray] does want to. He doesn't know how to, and he doesn't have, he doesn't have any basis for doing it. Given this, he will then have the basis." Nixon seizes on this "idea" (which had been laundered through Dean and Haldeman) and orders it. Later that morning, CIA's Director Richard Helms, former Deputy CIA Director General Cushman, and current Deputy CIA Director Vernon Walters meet with Haldeman and Ehrlichman at the White House, after which Deputy CIA Director Vernon Walters sets up a closed-door meeting with L. Patrick Gray that afternoon. [NOTE: CIA disinformation campaigns uniformly make it appear that Nixon spontaneously ordered a "cover up" on the morning of 23 June 1972, when in fact he was induced into agreeing to it through back-channel machinations of Gray and Helms on 22 June, funneled through Dean to Haldeman to Nixon on the morning of 23 June. Helms himself arranged with Gray on 22 June for the FBI not to interview the anonymous-in-testimony "two CIA men"—who only much later are revealed actually to have been two internal CIA employees who had been involved with Liddy and Hunt at relevant times.]

Saturday, 24 June 1972
One week after the "break-in," Ingo Swann secretly arrives in Washington, D.C. "to discuss psi [parapsychology] phenomena with a variety of officials...in terms of universal human consciousness." [NOTE: The unidentified "officials" of course are CIA.]

Sunday, 25 June 1972
John Dean calls Acting FBI Director L. Patrick Gray at his apartment in the morning and says he wants to meet and talk with Gray. Gray purportedly offers to meet with Dean at Gray's office at the Department of Justice, but Dean doesn't want to be seen there. So Gray meets John Dean outside Gray's southwest Washington, D.C. apartment at Harbor Square. They walk around the area and sit down on a bench and talk privately. On the same day, the FBI "locates" Afred C. Baldwin, who agrees to cooperate, supposedly "to avoid the grand jury."

Monday, 26 June 1972
John Dean is in telephone contact with Deputy CIA Dirctor Vernon Walters, who works directly for and operates only at the behest of and on the instructions of CIA Director Richard Helms.

Tuesday, 27 June 1972
Scientology OT VII Hal Puthoff sends a summary to "K. Green," Office of Strategic Intelligence (OSI) at CIA, of the results of the Varian Hall magnetometer experiment with Scientology OT VII Ingo Swann. On the same day, Acting FBI Director L. Patrick Gray has two phone conversations with CIA Director Richard Helms.

Wednesday, 28 June 1972
Again CIA Director Richard Helms is in contact with L. Patrick Gray. Helms tells Gray "not to interview active CIA men Karl Wagner and John Caswell"—both of whom have been involved with G. Gordon Liddy and E. Howard Hunt. Gray immediately orders "that the interviews of John Caswell and Karl Wagner be held in abeyance," and simultaneously orders his special agents to interview Ogarrio and Dahlberg—the sources of the money found with the Watergate perps. [NOTE: The public revelation of which "two CIA men" really were protected by Gray didn't come until many months later, while the public had been falsely led to believe that Ogarrio and Dahlberg might have had some kind of CIA connection. This was the CIA's "bait and switch" that created phony media and public interest over some possible CIA connection (the money chain), which, through this Helms-Gray con, was suddenly removed, while secretly protecting the real CIA assets and liaisons to Liddy, Hunt, McCord and the other CIA henchmen involved with Watergate. In short, a "CIA interest" was concocted using "leads" (the money chain through Ogarrio and Dahlberg) that were known by CIA to lead only to the White House, since Liddy and Hunt had done all the money laundering in their double-agent capacity as "White House staff."] In the evening, John Dean meets with L. Patrick Gray and secretly turns over two large envelopes purportedly containing papers and items from the White House safe of CIA's E. Howard Hunt that had been withheld from the rank-and-file FBI agents. [NOTE: No accurate or complete accounting of what was or was not turned over to Gray has ever existed, and in fact Hunt later participated in a suit about it, apparently for no other purpose than to further confuse the issue. Gray later tells at least three conflicting stories under oath about what he had been given, and what he purportedly did with the materials he had been given. Hunt, Dean, and Gray all tell conflicting stories about the contents of Hunt's safe, some of which has been covered thoroughly elsewhere in the thread in this forum on "the Diem cables."] Dean also asks Gray for special access to certain FBI files on the Watergate investigation, which Gray agrees to. Dean again is in telephone contact with Deputy CIA Director Vernon Walters (who acts only at the behest of CIA Director Richard Helms). On the same day, Douglas Caddy is served with a subpoena from Judge John Sirica to appear before the Watergate Grand jury, and Caddy forthwith "withdraw[s] completely from representation of any of the seven defendants," according to Caddy. [NOTE: Caddy's claim implies that he actually was "representing" one or more of them, a fact not in evidence except by unsupported claims. Caddy consistently has refused to answer questions in this forum going to the issue of whether he ever was attorney of record for any of the defendants. John Sirica—who had assigned the Watergate case to himself—is the judge who in 1967 had presided over the federal case against the Founding Church of Scientology of Washington D.C. concerning Scientology electropsychometers (E-Meters) that had been seized by the FDA and FBI in February 1963 under John F. Kennedy. The E-Meters had been in the possession of the federal government until the trial, after which Sirica ordered the meters destroyed. His order had been held in abeyance on appeal, leaving the devices still in the possessiona and control of federal agencies. On appeal the case was overturned and Sirica's ruling thrown out.]

Saturday, 1 July 1972
A highly classified Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) report entitled "Controlled Offensive Behavior—USSR" expresses U.S. concerns that "Soviet efforts in the field of psi research, sooner or later, might enable them to do some of the following: ( a ) Know the contents of top secret US documents, the movements of our troops and ships and the location and nature of our military installations ( b ) Mould the thoughts of key US military and civilian leaders at a distance ( c ) Cause the instant death of any US official at a distance ( d ) Disable, at a distance, US military equipment of all types, including spacecraft." It says further: "The Soviet Union is well aware of the benefits and applications of parapsychology research. The term parapsychology denotes a multi-disciplinary field consisting of the sciences of bionics, biophysics, psychophysics, psychology, physiology and neuropsychology. Many scientists, U.S. and Soviet, feel that parapsychology can be harnessed to create conditions where one can alter or manipulate the minds of others. The major impetus behind the Soviet drive to harness the possible capabilities of telepathic communication, telekinetic and bionics are said to come from the Soviet military and the KGB. ...Soviet knowledge in this field is superior to that of the U.S. ...Control and manipulation of the human consciousness must be considered a primary goal."

Wednesday, 5 July 1972
Acting FBI Director L. Patrick Gray has private conversations with CIA Deputy Director Vernon Walters and with John Dean. Around this time, Gray turns over FBI records of the investigation to Dean. Kathleen Chenow, former secretary to NSA's David Young and part time secretary to CIA's E. Howard Hunt, returns from England to be interviewed by the FBI. Alfred Baldwin receives assurance from U.S. attorneys that he will not be indicted, and will be treated as a witness, not a defendant.

Saturday, 8 July 1972
CIA's James McCord secures Gerald Alch as his attorney (for a fee of $25,000, plus expenses). Alch gets word that the Watergate prosecutors have "independent knowledge" of monitoring equipment having been delivered to McCord's home, into the possession of Mrs. McCord, by "an unspecified person" (who of course is Alfred Baldwin) on the night the burglars were "caught." The prosecutors have threatened to indict Mrs. McCord, but won't if the equipment is turned over. Alch helps arrange that Mrs. McCord turn over the equipment to prosecutors on the condition that she not be indicted, and that the prosecutors may not reveal during the trial who they got the equipment from. [NOTE: Despite having been asked repeatedly in this forum, Alfred Baldwin has refused to answer how he left McCord's house after he purportedly drove the van full of "monitoring equipment" there.]

Wednesday, 12 July 1972
There is further conversation between L. Patrick Gray and Deputy CIA Director Vernon Walters.

Wednesday, 19 July 1972
$40,000 is delivered to Anthony Ulasewicz in New York City.

Wednesday, 26 July 1972
In New York City, Ingo Swann is engaged in an out-of-body experiment at the American Society for Psychical Research that verifies the ability to assume a point of view remote from the physical body, but with the perceptions normally attributed to the visual system and brain of the body. On the same day, John Dean calls L. Patrick Gray and requests the FBI 302 investigative forms from the Watergate investigation. On the same day, Herbert Kalmbach meets with John Ehrlichman and expresses concern that the money he is funneling to Anthony Ulasewicz in New York is a "legally proper activity." Ehrlichman purportedly assures him that it is.

Friday, 28 July 1972
L. Patrick Gray again is in contact with Deputy Director of CIA Vernon Walters. The same day, John Dean picks up about 80 FBI 302 forms from Gray.

Saturday, 29 July 1972
About $60,000 more goes to Anthony Ulasewicz in New York City.

Tuesday, 1 c. August 1972
On or around this date, a secret "mission" purportedly from the Scientology flagship Apollo is in Rabat, Morocco, involved with Moroccon Minister of Defense Muhammad Oufkir and the Moroccon secret police.[NOTE: Oufkir and his own intelligence assets are believed to have been involved with intelligence agency assets in a 28 May 1972 kidnapping and assassination of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard (covered elsewhere and outside the scope). The personnel of this purported "mission" of "Scientologists" are secretly in liaison with CIA, using DEA cover, setting Oufkir up for a later intentionally sabotaged attempt on the life of Moroccon King Hassan II. See entry for 16 August 1972 et seq.]

Monday, 7 August 1972
On or around this date, Anthony Ulasewicz flies from New York City to California and is given $75,000 more in cash. On this date, Ingo Swann flies from New York City to San Francisco where he is met by Hal Puthoff. Puthoff purportedly hands an envelope of an undisclosed amount of cash to Swann on his arrival. Swann is there to participate in secret CIA experiments in remote perception and telekinesis at SRI.

Friday, 11 August 1972
Ingo Swann flies to Los Angeles with CIA-connected psychiatrist Dr. Shafica Karagulla and an undisclosed "associate."

Saturday, 12 August 1972
Anthony Ulasewicz is in Washington, D. C. and leaves a disputed amount of cash in an envelope at Washington National Airport for Dorothy Hunt before flying back to New York.

Monday, 14 August 1972
Scientology OT VII Ingo Swann returns to SRI from Los Angeles and begins a scheduled two-week series of experiments on remote perception with CIA personnel. The results are described as "startling accurate," and CIA's Sidney Gottlieb approves more funding and another work order for the development of "a more complete research plan."

Wednesday, 16 August 1972
On his return from Paris, King Hassan II of Morocco's plane is attacked by jets from his own Moroccon Air Force. The attempted coup is being run by Moroccon Minister of Defense Muhammad Oufkir, but has been sabotaged from the inside, the jets being "armed" with training blanks, so fails spectacularly.

Thursday, 17 August 1972
Muhammad Oufkir is reported as having been the mastermind behind the coup attempt on King Hassan II, and as having "committed suicide." [NOTE: An eyewitness after the fact has described Oufkir's body as riddled with bullets from the back.]

Wednesday, 23 August 1972
Richard M. Nixon accepts the nomination for President at the Republican National Convention in Miami.

Wednesday, 30 August 1972
Acting FBI Director L. Patrick Gray receives a message (signature blacked out): "Did you receive the printed matter that was sent to you concerning Scientology, if so please acknowledge. Thank you."

Friday, 1 c. September 1972
On or about this date, the Scientology flagship Apollo is moved from Morocco to Lisbon, Spain, reportedly to go into dry dock. Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard's whereabout have been unknown since Memorial Day weekend, the Apollo crew having been told he had gone to "live ashore" at a secret location in Morocco, where he purportedly is to stay when the ship is moved to Spain. On this date, Acting FBI Director sends a reply to the anonymous person who had sent him a message on 30 August regarding Scientology: "Your letter was received on August 30th. With respect to your inquiry, a search of our records does not reveal any prior communication from you. Sincerely yours, L. Patrick Gray III". On or about the same date, Jim Dincalci—who has been "Medical Officer" aboard the flagship Apollo, with access to L. Ron Hubbard—arrives in New York City from Morocco, purportedly "on leave."

Tuesday, 5 September 1972
Acting Director of the FBI L. Patrick Gray receives a communique from the Legal Attaché Copenhagen, "SUBJECT: L. RON HUBBARD." It says, "Enclosed are single copies of an airgram dated 6/23/72, captioned 'THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY IN DENMARK,' from AmEmbassy, Copenhagen, to U.S. Dept. of State, which is self-explanatory." On the same day, eight Arab terrorists, members of the Black September group, enter the dormitory that houses the Israeli Olympic athletes, kill two Israelis, and take nine others hostage. After hours of negotiation with German officials, the terrorists and their hostages are flown in three helicopters to nearby Furstenfeldbruck airport where, shortly before midnight, five of the terrorists, all of the hostages, and a German policeman are killed during an exchange of gunfire. Three of the terrorists disappear.

Thursday, 7 September 1972
This is the date of the first known "Snow White" dispatch, titled "RE: US JUSTICE DEPARTMENT DIRECTORY," purportedly from a Scientology Guardian Office (GO) official, implicating the Guardian Office in questionable or illegal acts again U.S. federal agencies—in this instance the Tax Division of the Justice Department, and the Treasury Department. [NOTE: This is the beginning of a series of events spanning several years that will result in federal charges against Mary Sue Hubbard and 7 top Scientology officials, resulting in jail sentences, the dismantling of the seniormost Scientology organization, and the restructuring of all of Scientology by Meade Emory—a former Assistant to Commissioner of IRS and an attorney connected with Lane Powell, the same firm that Douglas Caddy worked for.]

Friday, 15 September 1972
E. Howard Hunt, G. Gordon Liddy, James McCord, and the "Watergate burglars" (all CIA connected) are indicted by a federal grand jury. [NOTE: Alfred C. Baldwin is not charged. Note, too, that the grand jury avoided any and all address to allegations of "mishandled campaign funds."]

Tuesday, 19 September 1972
James McCord appears for arraignment before Judge Sirica. On the same date, Anthony "Tony" Ulasewicz flies from New York City to Washington, D. C. and leaves $53,000 for E. Howard Hunt's wife, Dorothy Hunt, in a Washington airport locker, then leaves $29,000 on a shelf in the lobby of a Howard Johnson's motel for someone to pick up. [NOTE: A memorandum from Dorothy Hunt dated 2 October 1972 claims that on this date she received $53,000 from E. Howard Hunt's attorney, William O. Bittman—not from Anthony Ulasewicz through an airport drop point.]

Monday, 25 September 1972
An article in TIME magazine covering the Watergate indictments names Alfred C. Baldwin as having been involved, but not charged, claiming that Baldwin had "monitored and transcribed many of the Democrats' conversations" via "bugs" that purportedly had been planted in DNC headquarters in the Watergate over Memorial Day weekend. [NOTE: But there were no bugs at all through which Baldwin ever could have "monitored and transcribed" anything, proven beyond any rational doubt by two electronic sweeps of the premises. Baldwin's story was a complete fabrication, for which he was granted immunity, but one which all the CIA-connected perps ultimately "corroborated." Falsus in uno falsus in omnibus.]

Saturday, 30 September 1972
Richard Nixon signs an interim agreement on strategic arms limitations with the Soviet Union. On or about the same day, Acting Director of the FBI L. Patrick Gray purportedly takes the files that had been given to him by John Dean—purportedly from E. Howard Hunt's safe—out of his personal FBI office safe in Washington, D.C. to his home in Stonington, Connecticut, and puts them in a chest-of-drawers just outside his bedroom, "intending to burn them." [NOTE: This is one of at least three different stories Gray told about what became of the alleged partial "contents" of Hunt's safe. In another of his tales, he already had burned them by this time in his office.]

Sunday, 1 October 1972
The day after the strategic arms treaty with the Soviet Union—on a Sunday, no less—the CIA awards a top-secret contract to NSA's Hal Puthoff, a Scientology OT VII, to develop parapsychology for military intelligence purposes in conjunction with Scientology OT VII Ingo Swann. The contract is issued by CIA's Technical Services Division (TSD), the same CIA division that has run MKULTRA and the other CIA mind-control, brainwashing, drug, and psychiatric operations. The head of TSD is the club-footed Sidney Gottlieb—"Dr. LSD." [NOTE: This program will run for over 25 years in complete secrecy. Although over 95% of it is still classified, enough information has come to light since it was first revealed in 1995 to determine that it was a top priority program running throughout the remainder of the Cold War in total secrecy, first under CIA, later shuffled to the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), and subjected to other intelligence cult shell games. With typical "in your face" mockery, CIA changed TSD's name to Office of Technical Services—the acronym being OTS. Although this program has been peddled by CIA hacks as having been only concerned with "remote viewing," there is also circumstantial evidence that a primary interest of the CIA in using the Scientology OTs as the core of their program had a great deal to do with Ingo Swann's repeatable demonstrated success in remotely affecting material objects, such as the Varian Hall magnetometer and sealed thermistors.]

Monday, 2 October 1972
E. Howard Hunt's wife Dorothy sends a memo to Hunt's attorney, William O. Bittman, titled "Accounting of Monies Received." According to her record, by this date she has received $88,000, and claims to have paid out $91,000—$3,000 coming from her "own funds." She adds, though: "You already have an accounting of the $53,500 received on September 19th." This makes a total of $141,500 received by her, according to her. [NOTE: Part of her accounting includes "$30,000 income replacement for Mr. Hunt and Mrs. Hunt."]

Tuesday, 3 October 1972
The strategic arms limitation treaty with the Soviet Union goes into effect.

Monday, 16 October 1972
A twin engine Cessna 310 carrying House Majority Leader Hale Boggs—Vice Chairman of the Democratic National Committee—and Congressman Nick Begich disappears during a flight from Anchorage to Juneau, Alaska. [NOTE: Boggs had served on the Warren Commission, and earlier had been involved with getting John F. Kennedy to come to New Orleans in 1962, partially because of trade activity in Louisiana attributable to International House, whose director at the time was Clay Shaw. It later will be reported that prior to his disappearance Boggs had indicated (in some way, to someone, identity unknown) that he had "startling revelations" about Watergate and the Kennedy assassination.] On or about the same date, an unidentified person delivers $20,000-$25,000 cash to the office of E. Howard Hunt's attorney William O. Bittman, ostensibly from Fred LaRue.

Tuesday, 18 October 1972
At about 8:40 a.m. the Coast Guard in Long Beach, California receives a call from an informant saying that "a classified private electronics firm of which he had some knowledge or connection" had determined a location of the downed plane carrying Hale Boggs and three others. The Coast Guard contacts the FBI, and an FBI teletype is sent to Acting Director FBI L. Patrick Gray. It says that after the "first report was received" the "information concerning the location of the downed aircraft was checked with a larger unit [sic]," and that this anonymous "larger unit now discloses the downed aircraft" at a described location. The information immediately is furnished to the Coast Guard in Los Angeles. At 9:10 a.m. someone (name redacted, but apparently the original informant) "recontacted" the FBI Los Angeles office, saying, "Tracking equipment now being used is tracking the men and not the plane," suggesting that there were survivors and that they had left the plane. Sometime the same day the FBI interviews the informant. He declines to give the name of the classified firm where he works. The information is that around 7:15 the previous evening the unknown informant had received a call from "friends" who are "involved in working with highly sophisticated experimental electronic surveillance." [NOTE: There is no indication anywhere of who or what the mysterious "larger unit" is that was contacted by the FBI pursuant to the informant's tip, but which "larger unit" then gave the FBI a detailed description of a location for the downed plane. According to available records, neither the plane, nor any of its occupants, nor any scrap were ever found, despite The largest civilian and U.S. military search in history at the time, involving Coast Guard, Navy, and Air Force aircraft.]

Monday, 23 October 1972
An article in TIME magazine seeds a Daniel Ellsberg-Watergate connection, saying that "Bernard Barker, the former CIA agent who led the raiding party into the Watergate, recruited nine Cubans from Miami in May and assigned them to attack Daniel Ellsberg, the man who released the Pentagon Papers to the public." [NOTE: So typical to such CIA-Operation Mockingbird ops, this reference to Barker in relation to Ellsberg is not only to plant a seed of connection, but to sow many weeds of confusion around it. This story is an ambiguous reference to an operation involving Barker and "the Cuban contingent" brought to D.C. to disrupt a peace rally—not a reference to Barker having been involved in the Fielding break-in, about which nothing at all so far has been revealed.]

Wednesday, 1 c. November 1972
At or around the first of November, CIA's Technical Services Divsion (TSD) is transferred out of the Directorate for Operations into the Directorate for Science and Technology, and its name is changed to Office of Technical Services (OTS). With it is transferred the CIA's top-secret "remote viewing" program being run by Scientology OTs Puthoff and Swann. At around the same time Sidney Gottlieb retires, replace by John McMahon. It is during this period that Gottlieb, with CIA Director Richard Helms's collaboration, begins destroying CIA records, a great deal of them reportedly related to CIA's MKULTRA and its predecessor programs. [NOTE: Of course no one ever will know how much was made to disappear forever in the Helms/Gottlieb purge, or what it consisted of. By 2 February 1973, after the documents have been destroyed, Helms also will be gone from CIA, spiriting overseas into an ambassadorship in Iran.]

Tuesday, 7 November 1972
Ronald DeWolf (a.k.a. L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., a.k.a. Nibs) records a video-taped interview retracting testimony he has given as a paid informant to IRS, and retracting all allegations he previously has made against his father, the founder of Scientology. He says his allegations had been made "vengefully." [NOTE: DeWolf later will retract his retraction, claiming duress, and will sue for control of the Hubbard estate, claiming that his missing father is likely dead. His suit will be used as a very public stage for employees of the FBI and BATF to "prove" with special inks and fingerprints that the missing Hubbard is "alive and well and in control of his affairs."]

Friday, 10 c. November 1972
On or around this date, Kima Douglas [a.k.a. Kima Dunleavey] and Fred Hare, representing themselves as executive officers of a "Scientology mission," fly to the Gold Coast in Africa [now Ghana] and set up a secretive corporation called "Religious Research Foundation" with bank accounts in Luxembourg and Liechtenstein. [NOTE: The whereabouts of Scientology's founder L. Ron Hubbard are unknown, and have been since Memorial Day weekend 1972. Years later, though, the creation of this corporation will be attributed to him in the suit by DeWolf, and subsequently used by United States Tax Court as part of adverse federal rulings that ultimately will put Scientology under control of IRS in a complex probate engineered by former Assistant to Commissioner of IRS Meade Emory, connected to the same law firm as Douglas Caddy.] On or around the same date, E. Howard Hunt telephones Charles Colson—who once again just happens to be ready to tape a Hunt phone call. Hunt says: "[T]his is a long haul thing and the stakes are very, very high and I thought that you would want to know that this thing must not break apart for foolish reasons... . We're protecting the guys who are really responsible...but at the same time, this is a two way street and as I said before, we think that now is the time when a move should be made and surely the cheapest commodity available is money." Colson gives a copy of the tape to John Dean.

Wednesday, 15 c. November 1972
On or around this date, CIA Director Richard Helms calls L. Patrick Gray's "number two man" (Mark Felt), purportedly saying that Helms is going to call Assistant Attorney General Peterson regarding the interview of CIA Deputy Director Karl Wagner to see if it "could not be conducted...be held off." On or about this date, John Dean is at Camp David and plays the Hunt/Colson tape (see 10 c. November 1972) for Ehrlichman and Haldeman, later for John Mitchell.

Sunday, 19 November 1972
On returning from the Gold Coast, the purported "Scientology missionaires" who have set up the Religious Research Foundation (Kima Douglas and Fred Hare) are "arrested" in Madrid, Spain on spurious "charges" concerning LSD and some chocolates. During a period of several days in jail, they are in private contact with U.S. DEA agents, including an agent named Weldon K. Curry, supposedly for "interrogation." In a few days all the allegations magically go away. [NOTE: The full story of this lunatic drama is a painfully transparent "cover" for these so-called Scientologists to be in secret contact with U.S. federal agents immediately after their operation to set up a phony financial corporation that later will be used by Ronald DeWolf and federal agencies and courts—all while the CIA is running a top-secret intelligence program entirely built on Scientology, secretly using U.S. intellegence personnel who have trained in the highest levels of Scientology, but without knowledge or approval of any Scientology official or organization.]

Monday, 20 November 1972
In Paris, Henry Kissinger starts a new round of peace talks with Le Duc Tho. Around the same time Acting FBI Director L. Patrick Gray is hospitalized with some unspecified illness.

Tuesday, 21 November 1972
The "Second Round of Strategic Arms Limitation Talks" with the Soviet Union begins in Geneva.

Friday, 1 December 1972
On or about this date another $40,000 cash is delivered to E. Howard Hunt's attorney, William O. Bittman, "by messenger." On this date there is a meeting in Bittman's office attended by "the lawyers." [Apparently this refers to all lawyers involved in defending Watergate defendants: Gerald Alch for McCord; Peter Maroulis for Liddy; Rothblatt for Sturgis, Martinez, Gonzales, and Barker.] According to Alch, "The question arose as to whether the CIA was involved." One of the other lawyers suggests that all of the lawyers try to ascertain from their clients whether the CIA was involved—whether they had any knowledge that would implicate the CIA. Alch tells the other attorneys that his contemplated defense for McCord is to be based on "duress." The other attorneys feel this "will only be applicable to Mr. McCord in view of his being the Chief of Security." Immediately after the meeting, Alch and McCord then meet at the Monocle Restaurant, where Alch raises the question of McCord's background in the CIA, and asks if there is any substance to allegations of Watergate being a CIA operation. McCord does not "specifically respond to that question." Alch also brings up Victor Marchetti's book, asking if it could be a good reference relative to CIA training, including disavowing connection to CIA. McCord says it wouldn't be. According to McCord's testimony: "There followed from Mr. Alch a suggestion that I use as my defense during the trial the story that the Watergate operation was a CIA operation. I heard him out on the suggestion, which included questions as to whether I ostensibly could have been recalled from retirement from CIA to participate in the operation. He said that if so, my personnel records at CIA could be doctored to reflect such a recall. He stated that Schlesinger, the new Director of CIA, whose appointment had just been announced, could be subpoenaed and would go along with it." [NOTE: According to public records, Richard Helms is CIA Director through 2 February 1973, and Schlesinger doesn't take over until then. Alch dates this meeting at 1 December 1972, but also contradicts himself on the date by reference to another date in December supposedly given by McCord. Pending further confirmation or corroboration it is being put at this date as seeming most likely relative to other events.]

Sunday, 3 December 1972
The Scientology land base in Morocco is ordered by persons unknown to be immediately disestablished, purportedly because of word from Paris of an impending legal action by France. A massive operation is mounted to move material and personnel to Spain almost overnight. Hubbard is nowhere in evidence.

Monday, 4 December 1972
Scientology flagship Medical Officer Jim Dincalci and former Green Beret Paul Preston board a plane in Madrid, Spain bound for New York City. [NOTE: Later Dincalci will claim to have been fleeing Spain in the company of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard on this trip with Green Beret Preston, and that the three of them "hid out" in New York for ten months. This is the only accounting for the existence or whereabouts of Hubbard during these ten months, and there never has been any evidence to substantiate Dincalci's claims.] On the same day, Henry Kissinger's Paris Peace Talks resume.

Friday, 8 December 1972
The first of several bomb threats is received by the Scientology Guardian Office in New York City. It is reported to the FBI as likely having been the work of Paulette Cooper—a woman with a Masters Degree in psychology who had written a book critical of Scientology that had been released close to the same time as the Pentagon Papers in 1971, and who subsequently had been involved with Ronald DeWolf. On the same day, E. Howard Hunt's wife Dorothy Hunt boards United Airlines flight 533 bound for Chicago. Other passengers on the plane include a journalist working for CBS named Michelle Clark—who reportedly was working on a Watergate-related story, and whose boyfriend reportedly was "a CIA operative"—and Congressman George Collins, from Chicago. On approach near Midway Airport, the plane crashes into the home of Mrs. Veronica Kuculich at 3722 70th Place, killing her and her daughter, and 45 people on the plane, including Dorothy Hunt, Michelle Clark, and Congressman Collins. Dorothy Hunt reportedly has $10,585 in cash in her purse at the time of the crash (though some sources have quoted much higher figures).

Monday, 11 c. December 1972
On or around this date, James McCord meets with his attorney, Gerald Alch, in Boston and starts out the meeting saying he'll have no part of anything that's going to put the blame on the CIA.

Wednesday, 13 December 1972
The peace talks in Paris end amid reports that they have broken down over efforts to settle the postwar political status of South Vietnam.

Friday, 15 c. December 1972
Around this date in December, Jim Dincalci—in New York with former Green Beret Paul Preston—is making regular trips to the United Nations. [NOTE: The United Nations is where Ingo Swann had worked, and where George H.W. Bush is U.S. Ambassador.] Dincalci also is making trips around this time to an office building purportedly at 60 Wall Street (see NOTE following), and meeting with a person named Alfred Toombs. [NOTE: Alfred Toombs was the name of the person who was Army Intelligence Chief in April 1945. At the time, Allen Dulles had been head of U.S. intelligence in Switzerland, traveling to Germany around April or May 1945. As for "60 Wall Street," no record could be found of what might have been there in 1972, but 59 Wall Street is the address of Brown Brothers Harriman, whose history of connections with the Bush family and CIA is copiously recorded elsewhere.]

Monday, 18 c. December 1972
On or about this date Scientology OT VII Ingo Swann flies from New York to San Francisco to begin his top-secret work under CIA contract with fellow Scientology OT VII Hal Puthoff at Stanford Research Institute. Very shortly after arriving, Swann and Puthoff purportedly go to "a Christmas tree lot" in Mountain View, California, where they "just happen" to run into another Scientology OT named Pat Price. Supposedly, Puthoff had met Price "several years earlier" at a lecture in Los Angeles. [NOTE: Pat Price soon will become a key component of the top-secret CIA program with Puthoff and Swann. No explanation is offered for why Price, from Los Angeles, would have been "selling Christmas trees" in Mountain View, never mind just happening to be at the lot where Puthoff and Swann go to buy a tree. The story is insultingly ludicrous, but this is the only offered "explanation" for how three Scientology OTs wound up as the initial core of the CIA's black operation that ran for over 25 years. Price later will die in Las Vegas under suspicious circumstances.]

Thursday, 21 December 1972
Jame McCord writes a letter to Jack Caulfield—author of the original "Operation Sandwedge," under the auspices of which Tony Ulasewicz had set up the base in New York City. The letter says in pertinent part: "Jack: Sorry to have to write you this letter but felt you had to know. If Helms goes, and if the WG (Watergate) operation is laid at the CIA's feet, where it does not belong, every tree in the forest will fall. It will be a scorched desert. The whole matter is at the precipice right now. Just pass the message that if they want it to blow, they are on exactly the right course. I'm sorry that you will get hurt in the fallout." Caulfield replies—rather ambiguously: "I have worked with these people and I know them to be as tough-minded as you. Don't underestimate them." [NOTE: It is idiotically simple to interpret Caulfield's "these people" as referring to Nixon's "people." If you doubt it, research the number of idiots who have done exactly that.]

Wednesday, 27 c. December 1972
On or about this date, Acting FBI Director L. Patrick Gray purportedly burns papers from E. Howard Hunt's safe "during Christmas week with the Christmas and household paper trash that had accumulated immediately following Christmas." To this point, claims Gray, he has never opened or looked at the files. But immediately before putting them in the fire—so he claims—he opens one of the files, which contain what "appear to be" Top Secret State Department cablegrams. He reads the first cable. Allegedly, it seems to implicate top officials of the Kennedy adminstration in the assassination of President Diem of South Vietnam. [NOTE: This is one of three entirely different stories Gray told about the purported "papers from Hunt's safe." Note, too, that in none of the stories of alleged "cables" is there any mention of names of any "officials of the Kennedy administration" supposedly "implicated." See separate thread in this forum on the fantasy "Diem cables."]

Sunday, 31 December 1972
E. Howard Hunt writes to Charles Colson, requesting that Colson meet with Hunt's attorney, William O. Bittman. Hunt says in part: "There is a limit to the endurance of any man trapped in a hostile situation and mine was reached on December 8th."

Wednesday, 3 January 1973
Daniel Ellsberg goes on trial, accused of theft and conspiracy in the disclosure of the Pentagon Papers. On the same day, the CIA's Anthony Goldin hand delivers to the Department of Justice Watergate prosecutors photocopies of 10 photos that E. Howard Hunt and G. Gordon Liddy had taken of each other, using a CIA camera, at the office of Ellsberg psychiatrist Lewis J. Fielding. [NOTE: The Watergate prosecutors do not reveal these photos to the Ellsberg court until months later, at what turns out to be an extremely dramatic time in the Ellsberg trial, and in conjunction with the Congressional Watergate hearings. The "reasons" proffered for so withholding crucial CIA-supplied "evidence" are too ridiculous to waste good alphabet letters on here. There also is considerable circumstantial evidence that psychiatrist Fielding had been on CIA payroll at relevant times.]

Ashton Gray

Miles Scull posed the following questions for me in another thread where this subject arose. I created this topic and am copying his questions here where I feel it would be more appropriate and on-topic to continue this discussion:



First, let me say that for the timeline I posted in the first message in this thread, I relied a good deal on a webbed timeline that can be found here: Remote Viewing Timeline. I recommend a thorough study of it to anyone, because it is fully cited with over 120 references. I owe a debt of gratitude to those who invested so much work and study in making these extraordiary facts broadly known.

To your questions:

The best reference I know of that supplies what I consider to be an answer to that question is the excerpt from the Defense Intelligence Agency's then-secret "Controlled Offensive Behavior" publication of July 1971 (cited in the timline). It bears repeating here (emphasis added):

"The Soviet Union is well aware of the benefits and applications of parapsychology research. The term parapsychology denotes a multi-disciplinary field consisting of the sciences of bionics, biophysics, psychophysics, psychology, physiology and neuropsychology. Many scientists, U.S. and Soviet, feel that parapsychology can be harnessed to create conditions where one can alter or manipulate the minds of others. The major impetus behind the Soviet drive to harness the possible capabilities of telepathic communication, telekinetic and bionics are said to come from the Soviet military and the KGB [Committee of State Security; Secret Police]. ...Soviet knowledge in this field is superior to that of the U.S. ...The potential applications of focusing mental influences on an enemy through hypnotic telepathy have surely occurred to the Soviets... . Control and manipulation of the human consciousness must be considered a primary goal. ...Soviet efforts in the field of psi research, sooner or later, might enable them to do some of the following: ( a ) Know the contents of top secret US documents, the movements of our troops and ships and the location and nature of our military installations ( b ) Mould the thoughts of key US military and civilian leaders at a distance ( c ) Cause the instant death of any US official at a distance ( d ) Disable, at a distance, US military equipment of all types, including spacecraft."

Given even a moderate understanding of the intensity of the Cold War at the time, it seems clear that the United States intelligence community felt it was losing the race in these areas to the Soviets, and it also seems clear that their assessment was that this was the next battleground in the Cold War—and in military intelligence development in general.



My opinion, from my study of the documents and facts, is that it was the inevitable culmination, at the time, of the CIA's long-running mind control programs. MK-ULTRA is said to have been the brain child of Richard Helms himself. Helms was DCI when the remote viewing program was created. In 1972 Sidney Gottlieb, under Helms, headed the CIA department where MK-ULTRA had spawned and developed. Gottlieb approved the CIA remote viewing contracts in 1972. Helms and Gottlieb are the two who destroyed relevant records at the end of 1972-beginning of 1973. It all goes in a very straight line. There's very little room to consider it anything other than part of, or a logical (I use the word advisedly) extension of the mind control efforts.

Several years ago, a prominent actor in the later years of CIA's remote viewing program said that over 95% of it remains classified. That makes it pretty difficult for me even to try to answer that question meaningfully. The CIA had one of their pet think-tanks, AiR, issue a white-wash report saying, essentially: "Oh, you know, it was all a big mistake and really didn't do anything at all, and was pretty useless." The full report is easily available by a Google search. Inspected closely, it reveals that AiR was provided an extremely narrow set of information (some part of that 5% CIA wanted to at least partially declassify, apparently). The "findings" are a usual CIA PR issue to make people shut up and go away.

The only people who ever could answer your question are in CIA, and they ain't talking.



There is no evidence of record anywhere, that I know of, that any senior Scientology official ever knew what CIA, Puthoff, Swann, and Price were doing. There is copious evidence in the Remote Viewing Timeline that Scientology's Guardian Office suspected a great deal, because they filed quite a lot of FOIA suits against CIA, DIA, NSA, FBI, Naval Intelligence, Army Intelligence, Department of the Treasury, and a host of related government agencies and individuals. By my reading, every suit they filed was thrown out—at least part of the reason each time being "national security."

No one that I know of, to this date, has any knowledge of why "national security" grounds would be used by the government to hide its records related to Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard.

Furthermore, there is circumstantial evidence in the timelines that suggests the possibility that Hubbard himself was abducted in Morocco on or about Memorial Day weekend 1972, and possibly assassinated. This happens to be the same weekend that Hunt, Liddy, McCord, Baldwin, and the "Cuban contingent" purportedly were engaged in a so-called "first break-in" at the Watergate the entire weekend, with at least two purported failed attempts, including the infamous "Ameritas dinner." This, of course, assures us that none of those parties could have been involved in any Hubbard-related shenanigans in Morocco that weekend, because of course everybody knows they were very busy that entire weekend trying to break into DNC headquarters at the Watergate to take photos and plant bugs.

Then again, there's a bit of a wrinkle in that, too: There was no "first break-in" at the Watergate.

It's a condundrum, innit?

Ashton

Hi Ashton,

Sorry for disrupting the topic.

Could you let me know when your PM box is less full, please?

Thanks

Gary

Oh, dear: my horrible housekeeping has been exposed to the whole world.

I have cleaned the beggar out now to the last cobweb. (There came a time not long ago when every message I received would come with an evil twin, and given all the duplicates I was getting, I finally abandoned the accursed thing altogether. Having found new purpose for cleaning it out, I will try to be a good steward again.)

Ashton

Indeed it is; and an arresting one, to be sure. Thanks for taking the time here to throw light on it. The research continues, the spoor is fresh.

This, of course, is a crushing indictment of the CIA in the tradition of Philip Agee & others of his elk.

I note: " Mr. Ashton Gray, who entered membership only recently...did so with a hidden agenda. No one can know what is in his mind, but his actions do meet the signs of an Infiltrator, Saboteur and Fifth-Columnist...—Douglas Caddy "

Ashton Grey seems to have touched a sore nerve... Hidden agenda? If his agenda is to expose the CIA, then what is hidden? The agenda is to bring to light what is hidden, isn't it? Is there something hidden within the hidden which hides behind the hidden? Thanks again.

I've found myself wandering and pondering along the same circular path.

Not for long, though.

Really, there's no better response I can make to the Caddy cryptosmear than what Lewis Carroll already so richly supplied us all with:

"I quite agree with you," said the Duchess; "and the moral of that is: 'Be what you would seem to be.' Or, if you'd like it put more simply: 'Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.'"

My pleasure. When I get back from this trip next week, there's more that I will add. I'll try to check in at least once a day in the meantime.

Ashton

From "Editor and Publisher" today:

"After cross-examination, it became clear that another Post reporter, Bob Woodward, would be next. But first the lawyers argued about a tape of Woodward's interview with State Department official Richard Armitage being played. Woodward has said he learned about Plame from Armitage.

Woodward took the stand just after 11 a.m. and the first questions concerned his conversaton with Libby on June 27, 2003. But Woodward said he had first heard about the Wilson/Plame connection on June 13 from Armitage. A tape of their conversation was then played, in which Armitage says Plame is a CIA analyst but not the chief of the counter-proliferation program."

Conversation with Liddy? Oops, that's Libby. But I think I'm onto something...Scooter Libby shows up in Deep Throat's Social Network Diagram!

Bob Woodward is Christ to Bernard Fensterwald's St. John.

JG

Mr. Gray, at the expense of being cast in the role of a distractinmg and disrupting influence, I do have a question for you.

Do you have a considered view why (if indeed I have read you aright) occult discussions relating to RV and RI (etc) are a distraction/disruption and are thus invalid?

Would you not consider that occult techniques exactly duplicate those identified by you as RV/RI, are far older and might it not be the case that the CIA techniques learned from Swann, Putoff and others actually derived from occult studies these gentlemen had been coached in?

My personal viewpoint is that the occult angle to many matters has been badly overlooked because the subject is generally viewed as being too complex and kooky.

David

Perhaps Mr. Gray hasn’t visited recently or seen my above post. Either way it is a pity he hasn’t answered the questions I posed.

His “Remote Viewing Timeline” (of which only a portion was posted here – for the full timeline see: http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/rvtimeline/index.html) is of interest to me for the insights it brings about Scientology and their connections with the CIA. Until I read this document I remained unaware that Hal Putoff and others well known in the RV community were Scientologists themselves. This has clarified matters considerably for me.

I am now firmly of the view that L Ron Hubbard’s creation of Scientology, and all the wacky words he introduced to the techniques he taught derived entirely from his knowledge and training in the occult. If we are to believe Peter Levenda in his book “Sinister Forces – A Grimoire of American Political Witchcraft (Book One: The Nine)”, then Hubbard was a magical initiate of Jack Parsons who, besides being regarded as one of the grand-daddy’s of American rocketry, was a high-level occultist and leader of the Agape Lodge of the Ordo Templis Orientis headquartered in Pasadena (where Parsons beloved NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (aka Jack Pasons Laboratory) was located. Pasadena, it might be remembered, was where Sirhan Sirhan once visited and returned with an unusual albeit burning interest in the occult.

Parson and Hubbard worked occult rituals together in the Agape Lodge, including the 1946 “Babylon Working” where the Scarlet Woman (the consort of the Great Beast of the Apocalypse) was “invoked”.

The fact that the CIA then secretly hired Putoff to train personnel in his arguably Satanic techniques, speaks volumes (see: http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/documen...acontract.html). Levenda also reveals that David Ferrie was part of this occult milieu. And is it just coincidence that another leading JFK figure, Guy Bannister also enters this otherworldly world as back in his FBI days, he was involved in SM-X matters (i.e., Security Matters – X), the original FBI “X Files”? Curiously, another UFO buff, Fred Crisman – a former OSS officer and later a CIA officer – would also be connected to the JFK assassination. As was his friend, Clay Shaw.

While I am not trying to build a “unified field theory” of conspiracy theories, I do think these connections and relationships deserve a great deal more attention than they have received hitherto. Especially the occult connections that remain under-researched and which, in my limited experience and research effort, lead to a dizzying array of topics that are usually considered oddball. Whether this is because these topics really are oddball or because they are purposefully dressed thus to suit subtle disinformation goals, I don’t know.

But I do suspect it is the latter. Making subjects “off-topic” for serious researchers who need to protect their reputations, seems to me to be an excellent strategy for smothering important trails.

David Guyatt

PS, perhaps we should rename this thread “CIA’s Remote Viewing Programme and Watergate – and JFK Assassination”

First, Mr. Guyatt, allow me to apologize for being tardy in my reply. As I've explained elsewhere, I have been intensely involved in meeting extreme deadlines for two books I was commissioned to write, and I simply could not give due attention to meaningful participation in the forum until they were finished.



If you would be kind enough to quote what I said that you are taking issue with, then we both can see if you have read me right, and proceed from there.



1) Your major premise, "occult techniques exactly duplicate those identified...as RV/RI," is without foundation and fatally flawed. The closest thing ever even mentioned in occult or paranormal literature is "astral walking," and it's about as close to RV as grits are to gravel.

2) The idea that CIA would use three highly-trained Scientologists (Swann, Puthoff, and Pat Price) as the utter core of their RV program, not because they were Scientologists, but because of some vague other, older "occult studies these gentlement had been coached in" (for which, by the way, there is not a scent or scintilla of evidence) is too frivolous to entertain.

Ashton

There is considerable evidence to support an entirely different view: that Hubbard in fact was on mission for Naval Intelligence in August 1945 when he went to the home of Jack Parsons for the first time, and that his further involvement with Parsons was a clandestine Naval Intelligence operation to undermine Parsons' Peculiar Preternatural Pasadena Party because of the sensitivity of information that Parsons was and had been privy to.

In support of that, I can document for you that Hubbard had been in Naval Intelligence during the War, and I further can document that Hubbard was not officially and finally mustered out of the Navy until 1950, and I further can document that Naval Intelligence attempted to order Hubbard back to active duty in 1950 in order to seize control of Dianetics.

And what was the outcome of the brief Hubbard association with Parsons? Within less than a year, Parsons was ruined, had pursued his girlfriend, Sara Northrup, and Hubbard all the way across the country, had lost thousands of dollars, had lost his girl friend, and had lost a schooner in the bargain. Sounds like a damned successful U.S. intelligence operation to me.

Of course, the "official story" is that Hubbard was a bad, bad boy, up to his eyeballs in "black magic," and that's all Scientology really is, and yadda-yadda-yadda. And I see you're here flogging it hard.

Why?

Ashton

Ashton, it's a pleasure to read your posts again. I trust you are well.

I always enjoyed the lively discussions that you were involved in.

Welcome back Ashton. I hope your book endeavours went well.

Are you now free to participate fully again? With Robert Charles-Dunne's return, along with David Guyatt and yourself (amongst many others) I look forward to learning a lot from you all.

It seem's Mr Hogan has beaten me to the punch...

Hi, Michael. Nice to be back and to see you again as well.

And hi, Gary. I didn't realize Robert Charles-Dunne has been away, too. (Next some people may start speculating whether we have ever been seen together. Of course, I use the term "people" only in the loosest, most catholic sense.)

As for being able to "participate fully," I'm sure some might argue that I am constitutionally incapable of participating fully, but I will be contributing as much as I'm able. I still am on deadlines, but they aren't quite as remorseless as the ones I lately have unyoked myself from.

Ashton

QUOTE (Ashton Gray @ Sep 16 2007, 08:58 PM)

Hi, Michael. Nice to be back and to see you again as well.

And hi, Gary. I didn't realize Robert Charles-Dunne has been away, too. (Next some people may start speculating whether we have ever been seen together. Of course, I use the term "people" only in the loosest, most catholic sense.)

As for being able to "participate fully," I'm sure some might argue that I am constitutionally incapable of participating fully, but I will be contributing as much as I'm able. I still am on deadlines, but they aren't quite as remorseless as the ones I lately have unyoked myself from.

Ashton

Great to have you back Ash. Was beginning to thingk you'd jumped ship. I look very forward to more on the Clement Stone thread.

Will your Watergate book by chance be available electronically?

"Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back"!

Dawn

Oddly [or perhaps not], I had been wondering something similar. Given Charles Drago's appearance here during your absence, and the similar pithy wit and style of both posters, I was about to begin searching for a photo of the two of you together. [Perhaps I am a "people" person after all....]

But I see you two are corresponding with each other here, so I'm working on an alternate hypothesis.

Welcome back.

Easy, Robert.

The last thing I need is for John Armstrong to start researching my family tree.

He's likely to find that I still live in it.

And since my middle name is Robert, and my initials are CRD ...

Easy, John.

Coincidences happen.

A Friend (or Two)

Good to meet you at last, Mr. Gray.

I said:

Quote:

Would you not consider that occult techniques exactly duplicate those identified by you as RV/RI, are far older and might it not be the case that the CIA techniques learned from Swann, Putoff and others actually derived from occult studies these gentlemen had been coached in?

Unquote

You said:

Quote:

1) Your major premise, "occult techniques exactly duplicate those identified...as RV/RI," is without foundation and fatally flawed. The closest thing ever even mentioned in occult or paranormal literature is "astral walking," and it's about as close to RV as grits are to gravel.

Unquote

Firstly, I would mention that I posed a question to you rather than presented a “major premise”. Hence my paragraph began with the words” “Would you not consider that” and then continued with: “occult techniques exactly duplicate those identified...as RV/RI” finally closing with a question mark.

I posed this question in order to more fully understand your viewpoint.

But onwards.

Could you elucidate what it is that you know about so-called “astral walking” that convinces you that the differences between these two systems are “as grits are to gravel”? Have you, for example, been “astral walking”? Have you studied Jung’s work on the Collective Unconscious and his system of “Active Imagination”? Have you personally engaged in RV/RI? What is the extent of your knowledge of esoteric/occult techniques and meanings?

That’s five questions. Sorry to bombard you.

To further elucidate my above question (since it is a complex subject), my thinking here is not in terms of the precise techniques used by either (as it seems that the modus operandi is varied and quite pliable), but is rather more directed to the results gained --- and thus the accessibility (more or less) to the same time (less) medium used to gain it.

The assumption here is that it is largely unimportant what actual technique is adopted for use ( as there appear to be very many the world over), but all seem to access the same medium or repository for their answers. For the sake of providing a usable term, Jung named this the “Collective Unconscious”.

You also said:

Quote:

2) The idea that CIA would use three highly-trained Scientologists (Swann, Puthoff, and Pat Price) as the utter core of their RV program, not because they were Scientologists, but because of some vague other, older "occult studies these gentlemen had been coached in" (for which, by the way, there is not a scent or scintilla of evidence) is too frivolous to entertain.

Unquote

‘Fraid I’m entertaining it never-the-less. Time will tell whether it's a frivolous or frutiless endeavour.

My immediate focus is this time line: Parsons was an adept of the German occult school, OTO, having been chosen by Crowley to head the Agape Lodge in 1942. Parsons and Hubbard engaged in occult rituals in 1946. Hubbard established his basic principles of Scientology in 1952. Hubbard founded of the Church of Scientology in 1953. Esoteric schools are, by definition, applied religious philosophies, as is Scientology - to coin Hubbard’s descriptive words. (I’ve extracted the last two dates from the Wikipedia entry on Scientology, so please correct me if they are incorrect).

The scintilla of evidence is to be more accurate a matrix of connections. These seem to me to be the direct connections between known occultist Jack Parsons, known Jack Parsons occult associate, Ron Hubbard (or pretend occultist in your view – albeit that he must have had some knowledge to fool Parsons who we assume was no fool), and Ron Hubbard and Scientology and Scientology and Swann, Puthoff and Pat Price --- “three highly-trained Scientoligists.”

I note this entry in Wikipedia:

Quote:

In formulating Scientology, Hubbard appears to have drawn liberally from a wide variety of pre-existing ideas, though he provided little specific citation of, or commentary on, his sources. The Church of Scientology presents Hubbard's work as completely original, reflected in the fact that Scientologists refer to Hubbard himself as "Source."

Unquote

What is Hubbard’s “Source” of belief for becoming Scientology’s “Source” I wonder? Do you know?

I am most interested about your evidence that Hubbard was with ONI. I had heard this stated as opinion but have seen no evidence in support of it. Would you be kind enough to offer such evidence if it is available? I am happy to proceed privately under terms of strict confidentiality, if doing so publicly creates difficulties for you. Again, my interest is genuine in nature and nothing more than seeking to understand these complexities more deeply.

I have an interest in Parsons and numerous former OSS officers he was close to, many of whom had occult interests. My hypothesis is that these occult connections may connect back to Nazi occult philosophy on the one hand. On the other hand, well, they go back a lot further than that.

It is often overlooked that a major symbol for the Knights Templar was the human skull known as Baphomet, whereas the SS wore the insignia of the death’s head -- a human skull. OTO claims to be a German based Templar continuation. On human skulls, I also note Shakespeare’s “Yorick” from his play Hamlet.

Rosicrucians don’t you love them…

David

A few months ago I received an email from a member who claimed Robert Charles-Dunne and Ashton Gray was the same man.

Hi, Dawn, and thanks for the warm welcome back(s).

Yes, the book will be available as an eBook.

Ashton

The pleasure is mutual, low sweeping bows and genuflections, etc. Now let's get down to cases.




And I trust that now you do.



Bombard away. I'll answer as I see fit.

There is nothing to be served by some long dissertation on "astral walking" (or "astral projection") here since the literature and internet are full of it for anyone seriously interested enough in the subject to pursue it in depth. What is most pertinent to this discussion is that "astral walking" always has been considered, even by its most ardent proponents, as more or less a hit-and-miss proposition, with the experiencer often at complete effect of the phenomenon: as much a spectator as a participant. Then there is a great deal of folderol about a silver cord and other bric-a-brac that needs no further bloviating here.

By contrast, Hubbard posited complete knowing control by the spiritual being (called in the texts the "thetan," after the Greek symbol for "thought") in stably operating entirely exterior to a physical body, with complete knowing perception (in 52 perceptics) and even ability to affect the material universe while operating exterior, and purported to provide very specific techniques by which any person could gain these abilities. The courses/levels in which these techniques were disclosed and used were (are) called the "Operating Thetan (OT) Levels."

In fact, according to recent research I've been doing, at the time the CIA issued the secret contract to use Scientology OTs Hal Puthoff, Ingo Swann, and Pat Price, there was a chart that had been issued by Hubbard that very unequivocally stated the promised "States Attained" for all Scientology levels. The "state attained" for OT Level VI was:

Ability to operate freely as a thetan exterior and to act pan-determinedly; extends the influence of the thetan to the universe of others.

There hardly could be a more precise statement of exactly what CIA was attempting to "develop" when they hired three Scientologists--every one of them having attained the level of OT VI. Isn't that a sweet coincidence?

So, as I said: RV is about as close to "astral walking" as grits are to gravel.

I've studied Jung in depth. He is a babbling loon.

My own spiritual experiences are not your province.



Entertain it all you want. Do it without engaging me, though.



Document it or retract it. And I happen to know that you have no option but to retract it, since what you're trotting out here is nothing but a lurid anecdotal claim of a homosexual ritual--eighth degree ritual of the Ordo Templi Orientiis--the validity of which anecdotal claim isn't worthy of the yellowest gossip rag that ever infected a printing press. I don't come to these forums to foment fishwife gossip.

It also has absolutely zero to do with the Scientology OT Levels that were in place in 1972 when the CIA contracted three Scientology OTs to "develop" a means for out-of-body perception--the exact abilities that the Scientology OT Levels that each of the three had of late done promised to deliver.

It also has zero to do with the fact that Puthoff was NSA before he went into Scientology, got the OT Levels, then entered into a secret contract with CIA to "develop" the exact same thing he had just studied in Scientology.

That's the topic at issue.



Codswollop. The primary principles were set forth in a work called "Excalibur" in 1939.



Well, if I wondered any such thing, I'd go to the source materials and read it and find out--not to Operation Mockingbird's "Wikipedia" <SPIT!>

So what I wonder is how much you really want the answer to that question.

Meanwhile, here's a very specific question for you: what would it take to get you back on topic?



We'll keep it in the forum. I don't play the "strict confidentiality" game. All data I have in my possession is broadly distributed as soon as I get it as a matter of stringent and inviolable policy.

Here is one record of Hubbard's service as an intelligence officer, from his personnel record:

SHIPS AND STATIONS
Office of the Naval Attaché
American Legation,
Melbourne, Australia

PERIODS
18 DEC 41-02 APR 42

DUTIES
Intelligence Officer

He also was an intelligence officer at the Office of Cable Censor in New York from the beginning of May 1942 until 24 June 1942--which happens to be an interesting time period relative to certain charges and seizures related to a Nazi banking scheme in the United States in 1942. But all that is for another time and place...



Of course it is. Who could doubt you.

The point of the thread, though, lest we forget, is that the CIA, in great secrecy, hired three Scientology OTs beginning on 1 October 1972 to develop a secret program for them that was an exact carbon copy of the clearly stated abilities of the Scientology OT Levels.

Even Crowley himself couldn't conjure that fact away.

Ashton

Thank you Mr. Gray.

What an interesting Banzai gentleman you are. I think we’ll get along fine.

Let’s tango!:

By my count, when reading your response, four out of five questions I posed you’ve failed to properly address. You’ve declined to answer these, you say, because you’ve elected to treat them as personal spiritual matters (the subject of Scientology apparently not being “spiritual” as you’re more than happy to discuss that at length). Have you ever read “Double Standards” btw?

I have absolutely zero interest in intruding into your spiritual state. Believe me. But the questions were really directed at discovering the extent of what you actually know versus the extent of what you actually say you know. I harbour the suspicion that you realised this was my purpose and thus ducked answering. A tidy trick, but older and more chewed than a dog’s biscuit.

Since it is my right to make assumptions (and I’d do it anyway), I have elected to assume that the three questions I posed, which you decline to respond to (the word “answer” being inappropriate in this case) were, “no” - I’ve not been astral walking, “no” – I’ve not studied Jung’s system of Active Imagination, and “no” I’ve not personally engaged in RV/RI.

And what little you do appear to know about astral walking is entirely gained, it seems, from the internet. In other words another ciphered “no”

And your familiarity with Jung’s work - that you’ve studied “in depth” (I wasn’t aware they’d serialised it in comics) clearly swept right over you’re the top of your head. Perhaps you were bending down inspecting your nether regions at the time? Perhaps this is your habitual position of repose?

So it totals zero answers out of five questions.

Not really a confidence booster for someone professing knowledge and writing on these subjects is it. But I like your style anyway.

On Parsons and Hubbard engaging in an occult ritual, I believe I already cited the source. But I’ll cite it again for the slow witted: Peter Levenda’s Sinister Forces – Book One. But you’d hate reading him, as he sometimes allows fact to spoil his work.

The OTO homosexual degree is the XI degree, not the VIIIth. And while I am bolstered in the knowledge that you don’t like to engage in fishwife’s gossip, I note that even they, from time to time, get their facts right.

Whether or not an early Occult-Hubbard axis has anything to do with later Scientological techniques used in CIA contracted OOB activity remains to be seen. Claiming, as you do, that it has “absolutely zero” to do with this, merely seems to demonstrate the degree of your hermetically sealed mind on the matter.

And since I am now fortunate to have your permission to entertain thoughts other than your own, then I believe I mostly will – although it’s bound to be a struggle. And don’t worry, I promise to try to keep any facts I come across at a distance from you. Don’t want to go spoiling your day, eh.

When I remove your defensive bombast from all that you say (and there’s a lot of it, as you know), you actually do not appear to say very much at all. Which speaks volumes.

Regarding the origin of Hubbard’s “Source” of Scientology. I was interested to learn that he wrote a “philosophic” manuscript called “Excalibur” and thank you for that fragment. However, it appears he wrote this in 1938, not 1939 as you state [http://lron.hubbard.org/pg006.html ]. Facts are such slippery things, don’t you find… I‘m sure you do. All the time.

Had you but taken the time to read even the comic version of Jung’s work, rather than just scan the pictures, blow bubble-gum and squeeze the chicken, I think the significance of the title “Excalibur” would not have escaped even you. On the other hand maybe it would. Jung, of course, wrote extensively on “philosophers”. But let’s not allow that intrusive fact to intrude into your world, eh. Don’t want to spoil the subliminal experience of your daily nether-region-spotting Yoga sutra do we.

On the ONI issue, you still have to demonstrate that Hubbard actually was working on behalf of the ONI in regard to his occult association with Parsons. Sorry to ask you to do this, but thus far your fact checking hasn’t been very convincing, has it. And since it is your avowed aim to furnish this material to all we lucky souls present on this forum, then please provide all the necessary citations -- and a detailed explication if you have one available.

Meanwhile, relying on ordinary academic protocols in an educational forum, it remains quite reasonable to [again] pose the question: where did Hubbard gain his apparent esoteric knowledge? Did it jump out of the aether and bite him in the ass, or was it transmitted to him from others, and if so, who were they.

Clearly, you don’t know.



David

I'm less sanguine about the prospects.

You have the extraordinarily peculiar notion that I have some obligation to follow you off down every off-topic, irrelevant trail and rabbit hole you twitch and dance toward, as though this were a drunken Rhumba line you were personally leading. Such self-serving casuistry always is embarrassing to watch, but it's also going to continue to make you a very frustrated boy.



And here I thought you favored the Rhumba. Thanks, but you go ahead and continue to strut and pose all over the landscape by yourself. You're doing a fine job of it.



I'm very grateful for this stipulation. It is generous of you. It establishes beyond reasonable doubt that you cannot distinguish a rumor source from a mere rumor monger. Here's a hint—for the slow witted, doncha' know: Levenda is not the rumor source. Somehow, I just know you can figure the rest out from there. Please don't let me down. (For bonus points, see if you also can figure out which one you are in this instance—rumor source, or mere rumor monger. I know you can do it. You're free to get help from friends or relatives.)

Meanwhile, I'll continue to ignore in vast wholesale boatloads your off-topic irrelevancies. In your entire off-topic tirade, you only managed to touch on a few points that could be considered even vaguely relevant to this topic—and the relevance even of those few points is vague indeed.



Yes, facts are slippery things—which is why I check them, unlike you and whoever is responsible for the page at the link you posted, which falsely claims that Hubbard wrote Excalibur "during the first weeks of 1938."

According to the author of the work himself (emphasis added):

"The Axioms were basically written on a summary of information which began in November of 1938. And the basic Axioms of Dianetics were written at that time. It's interesting that the material at that time was called Scientology. It appeared in an unpublished manuscript called 'Excalibur.'" —L. Ron Hubbard taped lecture of 10 November 1952, "Introduction: the Q List and Beginning of Logics"

Given that the work, also according to Hubbard himself, was approximately 125,000 words, and based on other ancillary evidence, it is my good faith and perfectly reasonable belief that the work, begun in November 1938—not in "the first weeks of 1938"—was in fact completed during the first weeks of 1939.

But please don't let any of this rip away your security blanket of superiority. By all means, accept the 1938 date, embrace it, propagate it. I even will stipulate it, while letting others do the math themselves with these facts and draw their own conclusion.

And I even deeply appreciate your own stipulation that Hubbard had the principles laid down as early as 1938. See what a fair-minded guy I am at heart?



Ummm, David: just between us girls—your slip is showing. The record is still sitting just a few messages back in this thread that the only thing you asked me to do was document that Hubbard had been in Naval Intelligence. I did. Now you're trying to move the goal-posts. {Tcht!} I would have thought such petty, sulking sophistry beneath you, Dave.

Also, just for the record (and make yourself a little Post-It note to stick on the end of your nose for this one): I don't "have to" do a damn thing. You don't dictate what I do. In fact, you might ought to bypass the Post-It note, and get that one tatooed on your forearm.

Meanwhile, here is precisely what I said I could and would do—which you, as night follows day, have tried to twist into something else:



Now, I've already done "document for you that Hubbard had been in Naval Intelligence during the War."

As for "Hubbard was not officially and finally mustered out of the Navy until 1950," as well as "Naval Intelligence attempted to order Hubbard back to active duty in 1950," read 'em and weep:

"You know, I resigned from the United States Navy in 1950 when they tried to pull me in and put me to work on the subject of research in the human mind...in 1950 they tried to kidnap me. They told me that I would be returned to active service to do this research if I did not return to do so as—in a civilian capacity at high pay... . I'm supposed to soft-pedal this. I'm not supposed to say anything about the Bureau of Naval Intelligence. ...I was once an officer of the Bureau of Naval Intelligence and of course, they have my full record. So every time anybody tries to clobber one of our organizations with being a Red organization or communist associated or something like that, it runs through the files and runs into this fact." —L. Ron Hubbard taped lecture of 26 May 1961 "On Auditing"

***

"You're probably not aware of the fact that before the incorporation papers of the HDRF [Hubbard Dianetics Research Foundation] were filed in 1950, the Office of Naval Intelligence right here in Washington, DC, threatened to call me to active duty to use what I knew about the mind.

"...A very amusing story connected with that attempt to seize Dianetics, a very amusing story from my standpoint anyway. Months and months and months before I had decided that the Navy and I had come to a crossroads and I had requested permission from the secretary of the Navy to resign my commission—my commission had been hanging fire since the end of World War II—and he had granted permission. Now, that's the lengthiest amount of time consumed, trying to get a letter into a government office and get an answer to it. See, that's pretty long. And I already had that.

"So this fellow, this officer from the Office of Naval Research, came to see me right here in Washington and he wanted me to go on as a civilian employee in order to use what I knew of the mind to make men more suggestible. And I smiled a feline smile. And I said, "No." And he smiled like something out of Faust, and he said to me, "Well, all you have to do is say 'No' and I will call you back to active duty because you still are an officer of the United States Navy." And with that purr he exited.

"So I dived into my briefcase and pulled forth the secretary's permission. I dashed down here and found out there was actually a naval command in this area—it's called the Potomac River Naval Command, I don't know what they run. Once I think they tried to run the battleship Missouri. But there it sat down there, and it had an admiral in charge of it and everything, and I found out that my papers were resident in two places. People thought I belonged in Washington, in Washington, and people in New York thought I belonged in New York, and I had two sets of papers. This admiral that had come to see me thought I was totally out of New York. So I went down here to the Washington Navy Yard, the Potomac River Naval Command, and I got my resignation accepted.

"And Thursday the admiral came back to see me, and he says, "Well?" And I said, "Well?" Fastest resignation on record. There wasn't anything he could do about it then. And I went back up to Elizabeth, New Jersey and the HDRF, the first research foundation, was formed, and we went happily on our way just throwing it all over the place." —L. Ron Hubbard taped lecture, "How We Have Addressed the Problem of the Mind"

Evidence in support of these primary-source accounts includes, but is not limited to:

1. A Letter of Resignation from L. Ron Hubbard to the Secretary of the Navy dated 14 November 1947 (not long after the Parsons op)

2. A letter from Chief of Naval Personnel to L. Ron Hubbard dated 18 December 1947, the text of which is not available, but which is referenced in a 19 February 1948 letter from L. Ron Hubbard withdrawing his resignation (see 3. below).

3. A letter from L. Ron Hubbard dated 19 February 1948 withdrawing his request for resignation from the Naval Reserve, referencing a letter to Hubbard from Chief of Naval Personnel dated 18 December 1947 (see 2. above)

4. A Letter of Resignation from L. Ron Hubbard to the Secretary of the Navy dated 27 May 1950.

Therefore, at all times relevant to the Parsons op, L. Ron Hubbard was not finally and formally out of the Navy, and was not until 1950, exactly as I stated. At all relevant times he had been listed as "separated" from the Navy under the weary cover of "medical reasons."

And now I have documented exactly and precisely what I said I could document, like Babe Ruth pointing to the right field fence and putting it out of the park.

So far, you've documented nothing at all.



I don't care if it was handed down to him on a satin pillow by Busbee Berkeley girls dressed as avocados, cascading down a spiral staircase from the sky-high palace of the One True God.

It's irrelevant to what the CIA did in 1972 by hiring three Scientology OTs, and the relevance of that to CIA's simultaneous connection to Watergate, which is the topic of this thread, and which is precisely why it's in the Watergate forum. I know: I started the topic.

And you're absurdly, obscenely off-topic.

If you're so obsessed with the origins of Scientology and with astral walking and with Crowley and black magic and Carl "My Dinky is a Flag Pole, Please Salute" Jung, there are hundreds of forums where your fountains of unfounded speculation and gossip-mongering would not only be on-topic, they would be enthusiastically embraced.

This isn't one of them. This is an educational forum. This is THE WATERGATE FORUM.

Therefore, I'm going to ask you one more time, nicely, to try to figure out where you are and to honor the forum and the topic by remaining on-topic. So allow me just this once, gently, to direct your attention pertinently to the title I so obligingly put on this topic at the very start, so even a blithering idiot couldn't miss it:

CIA's Remote Viewing Program and Watergate

There. Did that help orient you?

I do hope so.

If you have the Bunny Hop in your dance repertoire, you can hoppity-hop-hop your show over to some paranormal forum and dance the night away.

Of course, if your actual agenda and purpose is to do everything you can to disrupt this thread and to deflect attention away from the actions of the CIA and its hiring of three Scientology OTs in 1972 to develop its "Remote Viewing" program I figure you'll be back with another spastically off-topic dance, pointing fingers and toes at L. Ron Hubbard and Black Magick and Jack Parsons and me, and flinging every dirty, irrelevant piece of of-topic gossip and garbage you can dredge up and fling.

What's it going to be?

Ashton Gray

Excuse me for butting in...but I think, Ashton, you have the wrong 'take' on David. He's on the good-guys side....I think you both have rather sardonic humor that is clashing - more so that you don't know who he is through his posts these many months you've been gone, and he doesn't know your style as he came after you left. Peace be unto you both. <Bong> End Round one - back to your corners.

I don't know, Peter. I'm starting to enjoy this.

David and Ashton have both made great contributions on many topics of their expertise and interests: and are to be admired for the sincerity of their work. I won't pretend to understand the seeming complexity of the above topics they have both discussed with vigour (I truly do valiantly research to try and get some idea); I believe there is more commonality to their more general views than is apparent in this specific instance. Both know who the bad guys are...that bastard child...and their parents...International Bankers; If I'm not mistaken (if I am humble apologies for my assumptions).

I would hope Ashton is given some room to expand his CIA/Scientology links to Watergate. It's been a long time coming and I, personally, would like to see some flesh on the skeleton of the timeline.

I don't have any "take" on David Guyett. I don't know him. I don't try to "read" people through a forum any more than I try to read tea leaves. Personality contests are just one more irrelevancy as far as I'm concerned.

What I "read" are facts, relevancy and accuracy thereof.

On that issue, I'll say this loud and clear: every public forum I've ever seen or known of where the CIA's connection to Scientology in CIA's Remote Viewing program has been broached, without exception is invariably invaded by mouthpieces who always start singing the exact same song: "Ohhhh, Hubbard was into black magic, Parsons, Crowley, it all came from the occult, he was a plagiarist, ohhhh, Hubbard really wasn't the source of it, ohhhhhh, the CIA wasn't really using Scientology, ohhhhhh, no, Puthoff, Swann, and Price just happened to be Scientologists—but they weren't really, see, because they all quit Scientology—and, anyway, they were all paranormal adepts having nothing to do with Scientology, and CIA was using something else for RV, not, not, not Scientology, and..."

<SPIT!>

It's always, invariably, the exact same script, the exact same sensationalistic smear-campaign crap, and the intent and purpose always is to steer the focus off of CIA, where it belongs, and to turn the entire discussion into a gossip rag to smear the name of L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology so everybody forgets what actually is at issue and what actually took place.

You're a smart guy, aren't you, Peter? Who do you think would be behind such a coordinated and cookie-cutter campaign of lies and disinformation every time, every place, without exception, that this subject comes up?

As long as I'm drawing breath, it ain't happening here.

Meanwhile, back to facts, let's apply a little fact-finding to the recent suggestion by Mr. Guyett that he wants to "entertain": that Puthoff, Swann, and Price were chosen by the CIA not because they were Scientology OTs—oh, perish the thought—but because they had some (so far undisclosed) other, older "occult studies these gentlemen had been coached in." (This exact same nonsense is always trotted out, without ever any scrap of support for it, everywhere CIA use of Scientologists is exposed.)

So let's do the math, shall we?

The population of the United States in 1972, when CIA awarded the Remote Viewing contract to Puthoff, was approximately 210 million, but I'm going rounding it to 200 million for these purposes. You can slice and dice decimal points further if you want—not that it will matter.
 
My best estimates from records I can find is that there were maybe about 200 American Scientology OT VIIs in the U.S. by then.
 
For just one American Scientology OT VII to be selected by CIA for the RV program (having, of course, nothing to do with the fact that he was a Scientology OT VII), the odds are 0.000001 or about one in a million. Would you like to take those odds on a bet in Vegas? How much would you put down on such a bet?
 
But we aren't even close yet: for TWO American Scientology OT VIIs to be selected for the CIA's RV program—Puthoff and Swann—it gets a whole lot worse. Then the chance becomes essentially 0.000001 * 0.000001, which is 0.000000000001. Now it's up to 1 chance in a trillion.

Are we there yet? Hell no.
 
Then they added Pat Price. He was OT III. Puthoff and Swann were also OT IIIs (in order to get to OT VII). A generous estimate is that there were approximately 400 Scientology OT IIIs in late 1972. Since all three of them—Price, Puthoff, and Swann—were OT IIIs, the odds just of randomly pulling three OT IIIs out of the hat (never mind the OT VII numbers) are  0.000002 *  0.000002 *  0.000002, which comes to a mind-numbing 0.000000000000000008 chance.

It makes DNA testing look like a crap shoot with one die.

And then somebody wants to engage me in a discussion about Puthoff, Swann, and Price having been picked by CIA for the Remote Viewing program because of their astral walking or dowsing prowess (of which there is no record whatsoever).

How long do you expect me to sit still for such garbage?

Ashton

I don't have any "take" on David Guyett. I don't know him. I don't try to "read" people through a forum any more than I try to read tea leaves. Personality contests are just one more irrelevancy as far as I'm concerned.

What I "read" are facts, relevancy and accuracy thereof.

On that issue, I'll say this loud and clear: every public forum I've ever seen or known of where the CIA's connection to Scientology in CIA's Remote Viewing program has been broached, without exception is invariably invaded by mouthpieces who always start singing the exact same song: "Ohhhh, Hubbard was into black magic, Parsons, Crowley, it all came from the occult, he was a plagiarist, ohhhh, Hubbard really wasn't the source of it, ohhhhhh, the CIA wasn't really using Scientology, ohhhhhh, no, Puthoff, Swann, and Price just happened to be Scientologists—but they weren't really, see, because they all quit Scientology—and, anyway, they were all paranormal adepts having nothing to do with Scientology, and CIA was using something else for RV, not, not, not Scientology, and..."

<SPIT!> [Ashton]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was hoping not to be drawn into this thread, as it is not much my expertise nor cup 'o tea. I don't need any convincing that the CIA and Hubbard / Scientology had some invisible hidden connections - I thought that decades ago.

I'm not much into the occult [and dubious of most of it....yet don't doubt that others believe in it, nor that whole historic movements have been based upon its belief(s)].

David is apparently much more of a believer and I couldn't, speak for his specific beliefs on 
that - though he is mostly an expert in the financial/political shenanagans that the covert world, financial world, and political elites are involved in. He has made great contributions to the Forum along those lines, and others.

David likely doesn't know your areas of interest are the criminal nature of the CIA [and all the interrelated slime] and Watergate, in particular, nor the great contributions you have made here along those lines, as well as many others.

It is just my guess that you two would find general agreement on most other things and by some unfortunate fate have hit on your first interaction on one that you obviously do not......a quick look at eah other's past posts on other topics will, I think, show this mostly true.
I'll leave it at that and let you two have your friendly chat. No pulling hair.

Thank you Ashton.

Yes, it sounds as though Hubbard may have been part of one of the Navy's MKULTRA related projects, BLUEBIRD, ARTICHOKE, CHATTER etc. And to a certain extent this is where my interest lies and why I theorise that Hubbard was deeply involved in the occult, for I contend that such interests/skill sets converge on a common theme. Moreover, beng in the Armed Forces and being involved in the occult are not mutuallly exclusive activities, as is attested by the case of Colonel Michael Aquino. I would also mention here Andrija Puharich who was quite closely associated with Hubbard, was in the US Army and was also involved in dianetics and with occult circles.

From this angle, it is sensible - at least to me - to look at the history of the occult and try to discover exactly where it was that Hubbard found his "Source". I believe it most likely was the esoteric and your mention of his essay Excalibur only reinforced that belief.

One of many reasons why I adhere to this line of reasoning is that, today, the realms of the esoteric are riddled with mysterious individuals who are believed to have associations with the intelligence community. In this regard one might read Picknett's & Prince's interesting book The Stargate Conspiracy. I can also speak of these networks and connections personally, as I have spent many years investigating them. This includes extensive involvement with intelligence related individuals holding such interests.

One might also look at the background of the origin of the Priory of Sion myth that, likewise, had numerous intelligence connections in its origination, that also continue today. Ditto the subject of UFO's and figures like Colonel Corso. All these subjects, while diverse in the extreme, and also very uninviting to the serious scholar of intelligence community activities, non-the-less have extraordinary levels of intelligence community involvement. I also have tracked numerous chivalric orders and have likewise found a rather strong occult thread running through many of them (if not all of them), as there are likewise, intelligence connections.

The concen is not so much with the pros or cons of esoterocism itself, but the ages long techniques that have been honed and polished by such groups to access the deeper reaches of the human mind (if you will). Furthermore, moving from manipulating an individuals mind -- which we know has happened -- to penetrating the collective mind (Jung's "Collective Unconscious" - Occult's "Group Mind") is so serious as to be positively alarming. In this scenario adverse social engineering can take place at a remove from human consciousness. And if you fully ponder the ramifications of that ability, I think any sensible person will be appalled by the possibilities.

David

Thank you Ashton.

Yes, it sounds as though Hubbard may have been part of one of the Navy's MKULTRA related projects, BLUEBIRD, ARTICHOKE, CHATTER etc. And to a certain extent this is where my interest lies and why I theorise that Hubbard was deeply involved in the occult, for I contend that such interests/skill sets converge on a common theme. Moreover, beng in the Armed Forces and being involved in the occult are not mutuallly exclusive activities, as is attested by the case of Colonel Michael Aquino. I would also mention here Andrija Puharich who was quite closely associated with Hubbard, was in the US Army and was also involved in dianetics and with occult circles.

From this angle, it is sensible - at least to me - to look at the history of the occult and try to discover exactly where it was that Hubbard found his "Source". I believe it most likely was the esoteric and your mention of his essay Excalibur only reinforced that belief.

One of many reasons why I adhere to this line of reasoning is that, today, the realms of the esoteric are riddled with mysterious individuals who are believed to have associations with the intelligence community. In this regard one might read Picknett's & Prince's interesting book The Stargate Conspiracy. I can also speak of these networks and connections personally, as I have spent many years investigating them. This includes extensive involvement with intelligence related individuals holding such interests.

One might also look at the background of the origin of the Priory of Sion myth that, likewise, had numerous intelligence connections in its origination, that also continue today. Ditto the subject of UFO's and figures like Colonel Corso. All these subjects, while diverse in the extreme, and also very uninviting to the serious scholar of intelligence community activities, non-the-less have extraordinary levels of intelligence community involvement. I also have tracked numerous chivalric orders and have likewise found a rather strong occult thread running through many of them (if not all of them), as there are likewise, intelligence connections.

The concen is not so much with the pros or cons of esoterocism itself, but the ages long techniques that have been honed and polished by such groups to access the deeper reaches of the human mind (if you will). Furthermore, moving from manipulating an individuals mind -- which we know has happened -- to penetrating the collective mind (Jung's "Collective Unconscious" - Occult's "Group Mind") is so serious as to be positively alarming. In this scenario adverse social engineering can take place at a remove from human consciousness. And if you fully ponder the ramifications of that ability, I think any sensible person will be appalled by the possibilities.

David

You're a wicked man, Charles.

David

<PLONK!>

CIA must be peeking under swamp rocks these days looking for help.

Ashton Gray

Hi, Gary. I'm happy to expand on this topic in any way I can, as I can. There is an enormous amount of data, though, so instead of my just launching in and freewheeling, are there any particular points of it that you want to discuss or have specific questions about? I can't guarantee that there are any pat answers, but I'll do the best I can.

I will say that there certainly is one pivotal, seminal event (or non-event, to be, perhaps, more faithful to the facts) related to Watergate that also was pivotal in the annals of Scientology, each taking place over one fateful weekend in May of 1972. It was Memorial Day weekend: 26, 27, and 28 May 1972.

The most striking thing about this weekend in relation to Watergate is that there are claims of not just one pivotal event, but four: the so-called "Ameritas Dinner" attempted break-in at the Watergate on Friday night, an attempt at McGovern headquarters the same night, a second failed attempt at the Watergate on Saturday night, and purported third and allegedly "successful" break-in attempt at the Watergate on Sunday night. This, according to the fairy tale, was the infamous "first break-in" at the Watergate.

But there was no break-in at the Watergate. In the article linked to in that previous sentence, I have laid this out in detail and invited anyone to attempt to make the case that a break-in actually took place that week-end. The case can't be made. The fairy-tale is built on absolutely nothing but "confessions" of the perps without a particle of physical evidence. What actually happened is that a herd of Cuban CIA assets were flown into Washington, D.C. to put on a three-day long dog-and-pony show to make it seem that CIA operativeS G. Gordon Liddy, E. Howard Hunt, and James McCord, plus co-conspirator Alfred Baldwin were in Washington, D.C. with them that weekend. It was nothing but an elaborate hoax to later provide a three-day alibi for Liddy, Hunt, McCord, and Baldwin. They weren't there. It is a pack of transparent, utterly contradictory lies and hack spy fiction that no self-respecting pulp publisher would ever even entertain.

So just where the hell were Liddy, Hunt, McCord, and Baldwin for three days at the end of May, and what were they really doing?

Meanwhile, halfway across the world, the seminal event that took place in the universe of Scientologydom that same weekend is that its founder, L. Ron Hubbard, disappeared in Morroco. Poof. Gone. He had given over 3,000 public lectures between 1950 and Memorial Day weekend 1972. He never made another public appearance.

Isn't that a lovely synchronicity?

Exactly 15 weeks later, on 1 October 1972, while the world headlines were awash with Watergate, the Technical Services Division of the Central Intelligence Agency quietly, secretly issued Technical Service Contract 8473 to Scientology OT VII Harold "Hal" Puthoff to conduct for CIA "an expanded effort in parapsychology," which he would do in utter sealed secrecy with at least two other Scientology OTs, Ingo Swann and Pat Price.

And there are people who will practically beat their brains out trying to convince thee and me that there is some vast, great, empty void of disconnect between the CIA's involvement in the events and personnel of Watergate during 1971 and 1972, and the precisely parallel but oh-so-secretive machinations of CIA across that exact same time period in setting the stage for the 1 October 1972 contract that launched a black program that ran for over 25 years in complete secrecy.

But I'm not that big a damned fool.

Ashton

It is my uncanny ability at mind control. Resistance is futile.



Well, you're here, pal, posting. And the data is in this thread. It doesn't take either expertise or a cup 'o tea to read and understand the data. (Not that some aren't trying to turn it into the Mad Hatter's Tea Party.)



Ding, ding, ding: back up the truck. "...the CIA and Hubbard / Scientology had some invisible hidden connections..."?

What evidence is there anywhere that Hubbard had "some invisible hidden connections" to CIA? Post it.

There ain't a scrap of any such evidence I've ever seen anywhere, and I certainly haven't posited any such unsupportable notion in this thread.

In fact every bit of evidence I have points a giant red glowing neon sign toward the exact opposite conclusion: that everything Hubbard was doing at all relevant times—at least from the 9 May 1950 publication of his seminal work, "Diantics: the Modern Science of Mental Health," and from all I can tell even as far back as "Excalibur"—was in direct contravention to any and all efforts at "mind control," or, as he put it in the excerpt I quoted above, to making men "more suggestible"—which was the precise purpose of everything CIA and U.S. military intelligence was engaged in by that time, in bed with the APA and the AMA.

His work was viciously attacked (at least publically) by those agencies and organizations from the outset.

I just posted evidence of the very early 1950 attempt by the U.S. intelligence scum to seize his work, and as he said himself "to kidnap" him and force him into developing his work for the U.S. government.

Look at just this tiny section of the Remote Viewing Timeline that I've posted links to time after time after time, this snippet covering just over four short weeks in 1950:

Thursday, 20 April 1950
CIA's mind control program Project BLUEBIRD is authorized. CIA-contracted psychiatrists begin secret experiments with ice-pick lobotomies, electroshock, hypnosis, pain, and drugs, including cocaine, heroin, and LSD. In coordination with the Veteran's Administration, U.S. military veterans are used as unwitting subjects for many of the experiments.

Tuesday, 9 May 1950
The book Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health by L. Ron Hubbard is released. It decries hypnosis, and describes techniques for safely accessing in the mind the contents of incidents involving unconsciousness, hypnosis, drugs, and pain. It becomes a bestseller.

Saturday, 27 May 1950
With Dianetics a bestseller, L. Ron Hubbard (right) is lecturing around the country when U.S. Naval Intelligence attempts to force him into service for the U.S. government. He refuses. The Office of Naval Intelligence in Washington, D.C. sends an officer to put L. Ron Hubbard into civilian service in the government to continue his researches on the mind. Hubbard says no. The officer says that if he refuses, Hubbard will be ordered back to active duty, since his Naval commission has not been terminated. Hubbard quickly takes advantage of a letter of permission he has from the Secretary of the Navy to resign his commission, thereby putting Dianetics and Scientology out of the reach and control of the U.S. government.

Are you kidding me, Peter? Are you pulling my leg with this coy "Hubbard/CIA connection" suggestion? It would take a boulder to miss being able to see that the two were in direct contravention of purpose, with Hubbard publishing techniques all over the world that flew straight into the teeth of everything CIA's BLUEBIRD and MK/ULTRA and all the rest of the psychiatry/CIA mind control ops were trying to accomplish.

From the same timeline, on 14 June 1965 Hubbard issued "Politics, Freedom From," declaring Scientology to be "nonpolitical and nonideological," and declaring it "free of any political connection or allegiance of any kind whatever." He said in the issue that the reason for the declaration was the continuing efforts of the U.S. government "to seize Scientology in the United States."

What does it take to make the point?

Maybe this entry from the timeline, repeated yet again, might start to make a faint light flicker:

Tuesday, 28 December 1965
L. Ron Hubbard issues a Scientology policy letter that forbids anyone connected to a "Suppressive Group" from being allowed onto the confidential Scientology upper levels unless and until the group is permanently disbanded. "Suppressive Groups" are defined as those that "seek to destroy Scientology" or specialize in "injuring or killing people or damaging their cases," or that "advocate the supppression of Mankind." They include "police spy organizations and government spy organizations" such as the CIA, IRS, FBI, National Security Agency (NSA), Department of Justice (DOJ), "or any other federal agency in any country."

An "invisible connection" between Hubbard and the CIA? Are you trying to make some kind of a joke with me, Peter?



To HELL with "the occult" and all its minions and practitioners. This has NOTHING to do with "the occult." In fact, students on Scientology courses were forbidden to be involved in any occult practice or ritual. Yeah, that's right, you heard me, and I didn't stutter: Hal Puthoff, Ingo Swann, and Pat Price had gone all the way through all their training, all the way up through the OT Levels, sworn to subscribe to and abide by Scientology's "Training Course Rules and Regulations," which forbade any involvement in "the occult."

Should I put this into size 6 red letters, too?

The available evidence points only to one conclusion: CIA and its deformed Siamese twin intelligence agencies (including of course Puthoff's alma mater, NSA) slipped at least two and likely three (and possibly more) covert agents—Hal Puthoff, Ingo Swann, and Pat Price—in under the Scientology injunctions against goverment agents, in order to get access to the confidential Scientology OT Levels, then secretly "hired" their own covert agents starting 1 October 1972—after they had achieved the prescribed levels—to develop the so-called Remote Viewing using the information they had stolen.

Look at the numbers above on the odds of CIA "just happening" to choose three people for their Remote Viewing progam who "just happened" to be Scientology OTs. The notion is beyond astronomically ludicrous. It proves intent beyond any doubt whatsoever.

How you possibly can factor Hubbard into that is beyond the most polyester stretch of my ken, since I have pointed out repeatedly that Hubbard disappeared 15 weeks earlier, over Memorial Day Weekend 1972.

Do I need to get a bullhorn?

Ashton

Ashton wrote (post#33):

Quote:

Isn't that a lovely synchronicity?

Unquote

Synchronicity being a term developed by Carl Jung – your very own “babbling baboon”.....

David

Ash wrote:

Quote:

To HELL with "the occult" and all its minions and practitioners. This has NOTHING to do with "the occult." In fact, students on Scientology courses were forbidden to be involved in any occult practice or ritual. Yeah, that's right, you heard me, and I didn't stutter: Hal Puthoff, Ingo Swann, and Pat Price had gone all the way through all their training, all the way up through the OT Levels, sworn to subscribe to and abide by Scientology's "Training Course Rules and Regulations," which forbade any involvement in "the occult."

Unquote

Priests of the Roman Catholic church also are sworn to abide by strict rules of behaviour, but this doesn't stop them from engaging in all sorts of wicked hanky-panky. Rather, it often seems to promulgate that sort of behaviour.

Of course, Ash, you can't demonstrate that RV/RI does not have it's roots in the occult -- despite the similarities of technique and the fact that those involved in the occult were engaged in such practises a very long time before Scientology was even thought of.

A case in point would be the practise of Voudon and it's Haitian irruption of spiking dolls with pins to cause injury or death to the person the doll symbolised. Known to the world over as "Remote Influencing".

Or the prehistoric Shamanistic practise of entering the timeless world - so called astral projection. Known to the world over as "Remote Viewing".

One might also ask why Scientology felt the need to prohibit members involvement in the occult. Was it because Scientology's techniques were so similar to those practised by the wicked wizards that they had to cauterise any possible connection? History is littered with people and entities that rip off things and present them as uniquely their own.

David

Ash wrote:

Quote:

To HELL with "the occult" and all its minions and practitioners. This has NOTHING to do with "the occult." In fact, students on Scientology courses were forbidden to be involved in any occult practice or ritual. Yeah, that's right, you heard me, and I didn't stutter: Hal Puthoff, Ingo Swann, and Pat Price had gone all the way through all their training, all the way up through the OT Levels, sworn to subscribe to and abide by Scientology's "Training Course Rules and Regulations," which forbade any involvement in "the occult."

Unquote

Priests of the Roman Catholic church also are sworn to abide by strict rules of behaviour, but this doesn't stop them from engaging in all sorts of wicked hanky-panky. Rather, it often seems to promulgate that sort of behaviour.

Of course, Ash, you can't demonstrate that RV/RI does not have it's roots in the occult -- despite the similarities of technique and the fact that those involved in the occult were engaged in such practises a very long time before Scientology was even thought of.

A case in point would be the practise of Voudon and it's Haitian irruption of spiking dolls with pins to cause injury or death to the person the doll symbolised. Known to the world over as "Remote Influencing".

Or the prehistoric Shamanistic practise of entering the timeless world - so called astral projection. Known to the world over as "Remote Viewing".

One might also ask why Scientology felt the need to prohibit members involvement in the occult. Was it because Scientology's techniques were so similar to those practised by the wicked wizards that they had to cauterise any possible connection? History is littered with people and entities that rip off things and present them as uniquely their own.

David

***

I have always had an interest in all things "psychic", as well as much revulsion for the CIA (since beginning study of the Kennedy assassination four decades ago), so yesterday I did some net reading on RV, CIA and Scientology. Hubbard was not mentioned at all, (aside from noting that he gave no public appearances after Memorial Day 72), nor were there any references to the occult . I was at first trying to see just what these guys could actually DO remotely and got a few of those questions answered, (tho the bulk of it is locked away for reasons of NATIONAL SECURITY. ) (???)

I hope this thread can get back to its original intent and this bickering be put aside.

Ashton, it would appear that the actual RV program was begun by Scientology, with one of those three (Swann maybe?) having first been NSA, something forbidden by Scientology. Then the three joined forces with the CIA. NOT Hubbard. I saw not a word about that. Swann, Price and Harold Putoff (can't remember how it's spelled, sorry). I have heard Ed Dames on coast to coast, (only a tiny bit as I utilize that show to help me sleep) and he was lying about these three being involved with Scientology.

What became clear to me is that these guys sold out to the CIA in return for certain things (which are irrelevent here).

Do you know the RV ability level reached?

Why were some Scientology members trying to become RV experts (if you know)?

Finally, if RV works why can't they get bin Laden? (IF he even exists) Or the unibomber when he was at large?

I am sincerely trying to understand what those who claim RV "powers" can actually do.

Merci.

Dawn

Dawn,

One interesting character who might be worth a little research and reading about is Colonel John B Alexander and his article in the Army's MILITARY REVIEW journal entitled: "The New Mental Battlefield", in which he states that telepathic abilities can be honed to intefere with the brain's electrical activity in relation to the development of so called "soft kill" technologies. Armen Victorian wrote about this in LOBSTER back in 1993. Alexander has also written an interesting book called "The Warrior's Edge" in which he expands upon his Project Jedi aimed at making a super soldier.

Another charatcter you might want to browse is Major General Al Stubblebine who has also strongly advocated the use of so called "Psi" powers for military training and appllication. Stubllebine was formerly the Commanding officer of the U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), a powerrful figure in his day.

On Ingo Swann, youy may wish to scoot over to his website: http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/Superpowers.html and browse around, noting the "femine rising" picture that greets you (that obviously doesn't contain even an iota of occult symbolism, naturally -- other than the triangles, the psychic eye, the atrological imagery, the diamond body etc). You could also click his "Remote Viewing - The Real Story" and - disregarding the symbolic picture that greets you, especially the three arches, read his book that is freelly available. His "Superpowers/ET" link has an especially nice Mandala to greet you - asubject upon which Carl Jung was a recognised expert...

David

Hi, Dawn. There appears to be some confusion in terminology and sequence. (Of course the ocean of disinformation out there has been designed to confuse and mislead as much as possible, so that's no surprise.)

"Remote Viewing" (RV) was not "begun by Scientology;" it is nothing but a label that CIA and its cohorts dreamed up to hide the fact that what they were using had been stolen from Scientology. It's a very important distinction. The term is a tawdry disguise, and it didn't even really get into circulation in a big way until decades after the CIA set up their covert program in 1972, and, really, until after the program had been partially exposed, which didn't happen until 1995. It was only then that CIA trotted out their poster boy for "RV," Ed Dames, and some of their other disinformation agents to spread as much manure as far and deep as possible, claiming that was "RV."

So as always, the CIA has set up a "twosy" to confuse hell out of everybody that comes close to it: there is what they actually were using for almost three decades in secret (which three Scientology OTs set up for them and that nobody to this day has access to), and then there's the K-Mart line of "RV" products being flogged by Dames and the other snake-oil salesmen peddling manure by the truckload, complete with a laughable phony "official" RV manual that they shoveled out all over the world.

"RV" is a term whose origins are contested, but by and large is attributed to Ingo Swann. According to Swann's own account, he coined the term on 8 December 1971 during an out-of-body (OOB) experiment with Janet Mitchell for the American Society for Psychical Research (ASPR). (Does that organization's name sound familiar? It's one that W. Clement Stone was a significant contributor to. And of course during this period of December 1971, Swann's primary cut-out/contact was CIA's Cleve Backster in New York, whose lab was handy to the safehouse apartment that Anthony "Tony" Ulasewicz had set up in New York just months earlier, around July 1971, at 321 East 48th Street, Apartment 11-C, under "Operation Sandwedge," precursor to Hunt and Liddy's "Operation Gemstone." Are we having fun yet?)

The Scientology OT Levels were created way back in the 1960s as the most advanced part of Hubbard's continuing efforts to provide a route toward spiritual freedom, and in "Politics, Freedom From," 1965, he emphatically said:

"Scientologists may be members of any political group on this planet without restraint only so long as these individuals or that group do not attempt to seize Scientology for their own warlike ends and so make it unworkable or distasteful by invidious connection."

Given that CIA's "RV" had no other purpose than "warlike ends," it's an extreme twist of reality to say that "the RV program was begun by Scientology."

It would be more or less accurate to say that RV was begun by Scientologists—who of course were covert agents of the U.S. government when they went in to study Scientology. It sure as hell wasn't begun "by Scientology," and the vast propensity of evidence over the years following the CIA's malappropriation of the Scientology technology is that no one in official Scientologydom had any real idea of what the hell was going on—though they certainly seemed to know that something was going on. Scientology's Guardian's Office filed a blizzard of Freedom of Information Act suits against the federal government in the few years between 1 October 1972 and 8 July 1977. On 8 July 1977, of course, the FBI raided Scientology Guardian's Office headquarters on two coasts and squashed "official Scientologydom" like a bug. That very effectively got rid of the pestiferous FOIA suits, all of which ultimately were dismissed, largely on grounds of "national security."



I believe a far more accurate analysis is that at all relevant times Puthoff, Swann, and Price were working for CIA and its ugly sisters, pertinently including their entrance into Scientology as covert agents. Swann had been in intelligence in the military and had gone on to work for the United Nations before getting into Scientology. Puthoff had been NSA. It should be clear from what already has been posted in this thread that they never would have gotten onto the OT Levels at all if they had made full disclosure. (There also is evidence that they had inside help from other plants within the organization, but I'm not getting into all that at the moment.)



Yes, in one instance he lied most infamously about it. He had to. He had been caught flat-footed on the air. There is a memorialization of that event on the web at a page called "CST and the CIA".

[STRANGE INTERLUDE: If you read that page, note one particular quote of note from CIA's disinformation specialist Dames, claiming that Swann's "discovery" of RV purportedly was a result of Swann having "developed an accurate model of how the collective unconscious (emphasis added) communicates (target) information to conscious awareness." I invite you to go back through this thread and see who else here is busy beating CIA's "collective unconscious" disinformation drum. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.]



By "these guys," if I understand you correctly, you mean Puthoff, Swann, and Price, and while that's one possible interpretation of the facts, I suppose, I believe that the more one comes to understand the sequence of events and the connections of these men, it becomes very clear that they were in the pocket of CIA and friends at all relevant times.

I can't address your imponderables. I can address events for which there are facts of record.

Ashton

I’ll have a stab at the remaining imponderables, with the caveat that I need to apologise in advance for any inaccuracies that may intrude, as it has been some years since I looked at this subject in any detail.

On Remote Viewing, one apparent ambition was to be able to remotely spy on other nations and their leaders. It appears that Projects Grillflame /Stargate /Sunstreak (et al) were involved in a range of espionage targets.

Similar military-intelligence research programmes were in operation in the United Kingdom as well as the USA.

On Remote Influencing, there was a discussion between (I think) Stubblebine and another individual (who’s name escapes me at present) in which it was revealed that a successful attempt had been made to remotely kill a pig (the physiology of the animal being quite similar to the human, you can see where this was going -- if true). Other ambitions were, I believe, aimed at influencing a person’s moods, thoughts and other physiological and emotional states.

For the record, “Collective Unconscious” was a term coined by the Swiss psychologist Carl Gustav Jung, to denote the collective psychology of the species in contradistinction to Freud’s emphasis on individual psychology.

David

QUOTE (Ashton Gray @ Sep 23 2007, 05:22 PM)

QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Sep 23 2007, 07:57 AM)

Ashton, it would appear that the actual RV program was begun by Scientology, with one of those three (Swann maybe?) having first been NSA, something forbidden by Scientology.

Hi, Dawn. There appears to be some confusion in terminology and sequence. (Of course the ocean of disinformation out there has been designed to confuse and mislead as much as possible, so that's no surprise.)

"Remote Viewing" (RV) was not "begun by Scientology;" it is nothing but a label that CIA and its cohorts dreamed up to hide the fact that what they were using had been stolen from Scientology. It's a very important distinction. The term is a tawdry disguise, and it didn't even really get into circulation in a big way until decades after the CIA set up their covert program in 1972, and, really, until after the program had been partially exposed, which didn't happen until 1995. It was only then that CIA trotted out their poster boy for "RV," Ed Dames, and some of their other disinformation agents to spread as much manure as far and deep as possible, claiming that was "RV."

So as always, the CIA has set up a "twosy" to confuse hell out of everybody that comes close to it: there is what they actually were using for almost three decades in secret (which three Scientology OTs set up for them and that nobody to this day has access to), and then there's the K-Mart line of "RV" products being flogged by Dames and the other snake-oil salesmen peddling manure by the truckload, complete with a laughable phony "official" RV manual that they shoveled out all over the world.

"RV" is a term whose origins are contested, but by and large is attributed to Ingo Swann. According to Swann's own account, he coined the term on 8 December 1971 during an out-of-body (OOB) experiment with Janet Mitchell for the American Society for Psychical Research (ASPR). (Does that organization's name sound familiar? It's one that W. Clement Stone was a significant contributor to. And of course during this period of December 1971, Swann's primary cut-out/contact was CIA's Cleve Backster in New York, whose lab was handy to the safehouse apartment that Anthony "Tony" Ulasewicz had set up in New York just months earlier, around July 1971, at 321 East 48th Street, Apartment 11-C, under "Operation Sandwedge," precursor to Hunt and Liddy's "Operation Gemstone." Are we having fun yet?)

The Scientology OT Levels were created way back in the 1960s as the most advanced part of Hubbard's continuing efforts to provide a route toward spiritual freedom, and in "Politics, Freedom From," 1965, he emphatically said:

"Scientologists may be members of any political group on this planet without restraint only so long as these individuals or that group do not attempt to seize Scientology for their own warlike ends and so make it unworkable or distasteful by invidious connection."

Given that CIA's "RV" had no other purpose than "warlike ends," it's an extreme twist of reality to say that "the RV program was begun by Scientology."

It would be more or less accurate to say that RV was begun by Scientologists—who of course were covert agents of the U.S. government when they went in to study Scientology. It sure as hell wasn't begun "by Scientology," and the vast propensity of evidence over the years following the CIA's malappropriation of the Scientology technology is that no one in official Scientologydom had any real idea of what the hell was going on—though they certainly seemed to know that something was going on. Scientology's Guardian's Office filed a blizzard of Freedom of Information Act suits against the federal government in the few years between 1 October 1972 and 8 July 1977. On 8 July 1977, of course, the FBI raided Scientology Guardian's Office headquarters on two coasts and squashed "official Scientologydom" like a bug. That very effectively got rid of the pestiferous FOIA suits, all of which ultimately were dismissed, largely on grounds of "national security."

QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Sep 23 2007, 07:57 AM)

Then the three joined forces with the CIA. NOT Hubbard. I saw not a word about that. Swann, Price and Harold Putoff (can't remember how it's spelled, sorry).

I believe a far more accurate analysis is that at all relevant times Puthoff, Swann, and Price were working for CIA and its ugly sisters, pertinently including their entrance into Scientology as covert agents. Swann had been in intelligence in the military and had gone on to work for the United Nations before getting into Scientology. Puthoff had been NSA. It should be clear from what already has been posted in this thread that they never would have gotten onto the OT Levels at all if they had made full disclosure. (There also is evidence that they had inside help from other plants within the organization, but I'm not getting into all that at the moment.)

QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Sep 23 2007, 07:57 AM)

I have heard Ed Dames on coast to coast, (only a tiny bit as I utilize that show to help me sleep) and he was lying about these three being involved with Scientology.

Yes, in one instance he lied most infamously about it. He had to. He had been caught flat-footed on the air. There is a memorialization of that event on the web at a page called "CST and the CIA".

[STRANGE INTERLUDE: If you read that page, note one particular quote of note from CIA's disinformation specialist Dames, claiming that Swann's "discovery" of RV purportedly was a result of Swann having "developed an accurate model of how the collective unconscious (emphasis added) communicates (target) information to conscious awareness." I invite you to go back through this thread and see who else here is busy beating CIA's "collective unconscious" disinformation drum. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.]

QUOTE (Dawn Meredith @ Sep 23 2007, 07:57 AM)

What became clear to me is that these guys sold out to the CIA in return for certain things (which are irrelevent here).

By "these guys," if I understand you correctly, you mean Puthoff, Swann, and Price, and while that's one possible interpretation of the facts, I suppose, I believe that the more one comes to understand the sequence of events and the connections of these men, it becomes very clear that they were in the pocket of CIA and friends at all relevant times.

I can't address your imponderables. I can address events for which there are facts of record.

Ashton

Thanks for the clarification. And I did read that page you linked here yesterday. (The Ed Dames Art Bell expose). So Scientology did not call it remote viewing, but it sounds like this is what it was. I have read that no one got very good at this (but I have also read that much of the information is censored). And it's clear from what I have read that the CIA's use was for war and other such evil.
Yes by "those guy" I meant Puthoff, Swann and Price. So while in the employ of US intelligence they managed to move up in the ranks in Scientology, and, it would appear, they thought something via this discipline could advance the war machine's status/ability. What exactly did they steal from Scientology?

Having just scratched the surface here it's all a bit of a jumble. The links to the Nixon White House Watergate and the CIA are however just overwhelming. (I read through the 1972 timeline again yesterday).

Still....what were they able to actually do? (regardless of what it's called.)

QUOTE (David Guyatt @ Sep 23 2007, 03:46 PM)

Dawn,

One interesting character who might be worth a little research and reading about is Colonel John B Alexander and his article in the Army's MILITARY REVIEW journal entitled: "The New Mental Battlefield", in which he states that telepathic abilities can be honed to intefere with the brain's electrical activity in relation to the development of so called "soft kill" technologies. Armen Victorian wrote about this in LOBSTER back in 1993. Alexander has also written an interesting book called "The Warrior's Edge" in which he expands upon his Project Jedi aimed at making a super soldier.

Another charatcter you might want to browse is Major General Al Stubblebine who has also strongly advocated the use of so called "Psi" powers for military training and appllication. Stubllebine was formerly the Commanding officer of the U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), a powerrful figure in his day.

On Ingo Swann, youy may wish to scoot over to his website: http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/Superpowers.html and browse around, noting the "femine rising" picture that greets you (that obviously doesn't contain even an iota of occult symbolism, naturally -- other than the triangles, the psychic eye, the atrological imagery, the diamond body etc). You could also click his "Remote Viewing - The Real Story" and - disregarding the symbolic picture that greets you, especially the three arches, read his book that is freelly available. His "Superpowers/ET" link has an especially nice Mandala to greet you - asubject upon which Carl Jung was a recognised expert...

David

Thanks David, I will take a look at this stuff. I have looked at Swann's website, a lot to see there. I read a bit of "Remote Viewing-The Real Story", but he's rather hard to take.

Of course the CIA and the powers of the darkside have been bedfellows a long time. Gehlen and co. were no strangers to occult practices and nothing's gotten better at top intelligence levels.

Dawn

You're very welcome. I'll always answer any sincere questions to the best of my ability.



From my own understanding—for further clarification—anything that the world today calls or thinks of as "Remote Viewing" (essentially an ability to perceive in locations that are remote—distant—from where one's physical body is) was only one by-product of the Scientology "Operating Thetan" levels, whose purpose was to rehabilitate the native abilities of the spiritual being ("thetan," in Scientology parlance) in knowingly and causatively operating exterior to, and without dependency on, a physical homo sapiens body.

The stated "Operating Thetan" abilities were not limited just to present-time remote perception of the physical universe so stressed by CIA's Remote Viewing disinformation hacks. Here is the stated ability for Scientology's Level OT VIII (all-caps in the original):

ABILITY TO BE AT CAUSE KNOWINGLY AND AT WILL OVER THOUGHT, LIFE, FORM, MATTER, ENERGY, SPACE AND TIME, SUBJECTIVE AND OBJECTIVE

That's rather comprehensive, wouldn't you say? In fact, given, arguendo, a conviction by CIA (or any power-mad agency, government, or despot with unlimited resources, e.g. tax money) that any such state might be attainable, or even partially attainable, I can't think of a single law or ethical or moral code that they wouldn't trample to dust in order to secure a monopoly on the technology.

Then put all that into the context of the Cold War. Then put it further into the context of 1972's "Controlled Offensive Behavior—USSR," which I quote here in pertinent part from the Remote Viewing Timeline (emphasis added):

Saturday, 1 July 1972
The classified Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) report entitled "Controlled Offensive Behavior—USSR" is published, though its findings have been known by top personnel for months. In part, it states: "The Soviet Union is well aware of the benefits and applications of parapsychology research. ...Soviet knowledge in this field is superior to that of the U.S. ...The potential applications of focusing mental influences on an enemy through hypnotic telepathy have surely occurred to the Soviets... . Control and manipulation of the human consciousness must be considered a primary goal. ...Soviet efforts in the field of psi research, sooner or later, might enable them to do some of the following: ( a ) Know the contents of top secret US documents, the movements of our troops and ships and the location and nature of our military installations ( b ) Mould the thoughts of key US military and civilian leaders at a distance ( c ) Cause the instant death of any US official at a distance ( d ) Disable, at a distance, US military equipment of all types, including spacecraft."

I've made bold the phrase "though its findings have been known by top personnel for months" because it is a crucial subtlety of the timeline that easily can be overlooked at peril.

The date of publication given for "Controlled Offensive Behavior—USSR" is 1 July 1972, which very conveniently is after the Watergate arrests. But go back in the timeline and find the "information cut-off date" for this publication. It is Monday, 31 January 1972. All around this time period both Hunt and Liddy have been meeting secretly with and having phone conversations with senior CIA officials—who of course had been in possession of all the strategic data and conclusions in the report long before any order was issued to create such a report. Within mere weeks of this "information cut-off date," Hunt and Liddy fly to Miami and meet with Bernard Barker and other CIA-connected Cubans, and Liddy "recruits" CIA's James McCord.

Did I use the word "subtlety"? Really, when it's all laid out, it's about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face. Repeatedly.



I'll refrain from comment.



Well— Yes. It's what those people do.



Hubbard's confidential copyrighted works. The Scientology OT Levels were secret. Access to those levels was by invitation only, which only was extended to Scientologists with a proven track record of high ethical standards within the Scientology framework of ethics (on which subject there is a considerable body of material issued by Hubbard).

The levels also were protected under international copyright law as "unpublished works." For a rather extensive coverage of the copyrights matter—including information on what became of Hubbard's copyrighted works after his 1972 disappearance—I recommend this linked article and its supplied links to the copyright records: "Over 10,000 Copyrights Owned by the Church of Spiritual Technology (CST)".

Hubbard had emphatically forbade access to copies of those unpublished confidential works by any agent or agency of the U.S. (or any) government, as I've already documented in this thread.

Now, without putting too fine a point on it, it's necessary and germane to mention here that an integral part of Scientology—driven home most resoundingly in a Scientology policy letter called "Keeping Scientology Working," which apparently is required reading as the first item on every Scientology course—is that results are obtained only when the exact materials of Scientology are applied exactly as written, without alteration.

Without reaching any conclusion as to the validity of the above, it nonetheless is central to the entire issue: if, in fact, CIA and company believed that such states as promised by the OT Levels might be attainable through application of Scientology, there was one, and only one way to find out: get their hands on the exact materials of the secret OT Levels. And that's exactly what Hubbard had absolutely forbidden.

In short, there was no other possible way for CIA to get the OT Levels except to steal them.

If CIA, in conjunction with other intelligence entities (not necessarily all exclusively of the United States), knowingly and willfully sent covert agents into Scientology to access and make illegal copies of these copyrighted works, that's bad enough.

But the weight of evidence tends to suggest strongly that methods and means to effect such theft—and, perhaps more pertinently, to be able to "enjoy" the fruits of such heinous criminality for decades—entailed acts reaching to the most vicious, conscienceless, ineffable crimes known to man, on an international scale.

That's a little bit bigger than "a third-rate burglary."

It's little wonder that it has taken over three decades even to begin to peel back the scab. And what's underneath ain't pretty.



As you noted above, much of the information is still a closely held secret. Here, though, e.g., is a "success story" written by Hal Puthoff sometime in 1971 (around the time Ulasewicz was setting up the safe house in New York under "Operation Sandwedge"):

"I had seen a copy of 'Ole Doc Methuselah' written by Ron [L. Ron Hubbard] and decided I wanted one. I heard they were on sale at Delta Meter Company, which I knew was located somewhere near Celebrity Centre, although I did not know exactly where. One evening as I was walking away from Celebrity Centre I decided I wanted to know where Delta was so I could go there the next day. As I passed the building I knew it was the one. I wanted to go in and check but the doors were locked. I could see there was a directory on the wall about 30 feet away and parallel to my vision where I couldn't read it. So I closed my eyes and intended to read the directory. In front of me I saw the directory and read 'Delta Meter Company, Room 216'. A couple of days later I checked it out and found the directory said just that." —Dr. Harold Puthoff "Success Story" after Scientology OT VII, 1971

That goes only to an instance of the kind of "remote perception" that Ingo Swann, later that same year, would dub "remote viewing."

Of more interest to me—and I believe of far more interest to CIA at the time, which of course is completely downplayed by the phony "RV" disinformation hacks like Dames—are the experiments of record in telekinesis and remote influence that Swann was involved in during the latter part of 1971 and through the first half of 1972 (while Hunt and Liddy were rigging up Watergate). It's important to keep in mind that all of these feats by Ingo Swann that I'm referring to came after he had done the Scientology OT Levels.

Many of the accounts of Swann's experiments already are in the the Remote Viewing Timeline, so I don't see any point in rehashing them here, but they include Swann's repeatable experiments with CIA's Cleve Backster of remote influence on plants and repeatable influence on a piece of graphite hooked up to a Wheatstone bridge. (That just happens to be the same device that's at the core of the Scientology E-meter—imagine that. These experiments with CIA's Backster, by the way, took place in September of 1971, right after Hunt and Liddy had stayed at the Hotel Pierre on the night of 3 September in New York, just a few blocks from Cleve Backster's lab, while CIA-connected Cubans were staging a dog-and-pony show out in L.A. at the office of Dr. Lewis Fielding so that Liddy and Hunt later could infamously "admit" they had really been out there with the Cubans. Doncha' know.)

Then followed in late 1971 Swann's thermistor experiments in telekinesis with Gertrude Schmeidler, the reports of which electrified the intelligence community. (And, by the way, that's precisely when Liddy and Hunt began putting together "Operation Gemstone" as the successor to "Operation Sandwedge.")

Then, of course, there is the much heralded event on 6 June 1972 in which Swann mentally affected a a supercooled magnetometer encased in solid concrete five feet beneath the foundation of the Varian Hall of Physics at Stanford University.

It probably would be unseemly of me to mention that just 10 days after this event, five CIA operatives entered the Watergate Hotel and managed to get themselves "caught" in a "third-rate burglary"—even though "getting caught" required CIA's James McCord to go back and tape the door twice.

Ashton

A pair of recent pieces bring us up to date on developments:

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/new...currentPage=all

http://www.policeone.com/writers/columnist...ticles/1347305/

Interestingly, something very similar to the Russian Mindreader 2.0 was deployed by the US against David Koresh at Waco. The BBC World Service footage that briefly showed this technology inn use, seemingly disappeared from the archives when I tried to get a copy. Fortunately, I already had a copy anyway.

Other Russian mind control technology, known as Acoustic Psycho-Correction, a device that transmits “command words” directly (and remotely) into the human mind (the technology dated back to the 1970’s btw), was focused on behaviour modification. This technology was shared with the US back in 1993 via a think-tank created by Ray Cline, former CIA DD.

What strikes me as likely about RV and RI, is that it has crept off into some quiet corner of the privatised world.

On the lie detector front, Computer Voice Stress Analysis (CVSA) is already in widespread use both by government and industry. Estimates surrounding irs reliability vary. Exponents claim up to 99% accuracy, whereas the American Polygraph Association (who have a vested interest, naturally) believe it is not better than tossing a coin in the air.

One may better judge the state of development of this class of technology by scrutinising records of the US Patent office. As an example, this little critter:

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser...30+AND+AN/sony)

It has (had) it’s own news story too:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/fun.games/04/...ony.brain.reut/

David

I have just noticed that both the above links are either inactive or have been changed. I cached the full webpages of each item and can post here in the event anyone wishes to read them in detail.

David

A Brief History of Remote Viewing

by David A. Morehouse, Ph.D.

Excerpted:

So, what does all of this mean, and why this approach as a preface to a brief history of Remote Viewing? Simple. I want you to know that this is a version of the history. I want you to know that the history of Remote Viewing should be used to establish a degree of credibility for the art and science of it−and then let it go. The great reverence of the truth of Remote Viewing waits in the future of the human application of this great gift. Too much is wasted in the re-raking of the past, the reconstruction of how it was or how it could have been. Remote Viewing is the promise of what can be−of what is possible for humanity....

.... Remote Viewing is not a new phenomenon; the ability has been ours since the beginning of time. The formulation and systemization of theological doctrine as set forth in ancient records present us with countless examples of humanity's learned and inherent abilities to transcend the physical; to see in the mind's eye, people, places and events separate from their physical reality. From the ancient hieroglyphics carved into the walls of forgotten Egyptian tombs, to the "Emerald Tablets of Thoth the Atlantean, the Urantia Book, A Course in Miracles, the Old Testament, the Koran, the Kabbalah, the Talmud, and the New Testament−to name but a few−all give accounts of journeys out of the physical body, to night flights of soul, to projections of consciousness, et cetera. However, the most recent history began circa 1972 when the Central Intelligence Agency learned through various human intelligence sources that the Czechs, Chinese, Soviets, Germans, the Israelis and even the British, were all heavily involved in the study of various aspects of what would be called the "paranormal."

These investigations were in many ways the spawn of very bizarre programs initiated by the Nazi's during World War II. While exact details are a matter of historical debate, it is widely held that the Russians captured numerous documents and records held by Adolph Hitler's infamous Nazi Occult Bureau, after the fall of the Third Reich. Other documents partial and complete, became the property of various allied intelligence services who elected to study them further in the ensuing years or in some cases, totally ignore their potential.

When the CIA learned of these studies the obvious question was, ‘Do we have such a potential?' At this juncture, the United States did not have such a capability, nor had they ever really considered it−until now. If all these other "agencies" are involved, then why we not involved? It was clear that the principal intelligence agency for the United States needed to "catch up" to the intelligence collection efforts of the others−at least in this "alternative" method of gathering intelligence.

Late in 1972, CIA scientist Sidney Gottlieb, Chief of the Technical Services Division procured a rather large monetary endowment to initiate the research project that began it all. If the Soviets, and the others were as heavily involved in this research as was being reported−the National Security of the United States could be in jeopardy. Probably, the simple notion that this "eerie capability" might really be out there; and the possibility that we could do it as well, almost certainly drove the CIA's decision process. You have to admit−it does peek one's curiosity.

Stanford Research Institute International (SRI) in Palo Alto, California ultimately became the proving ground for what was to eventually be one of the intelligence services' most controversial, misunderstood and often feared Special Access Programs. The two men initially charged with responsibility to oversee this testing and evaluation program were Russell Targ and Harold Puthoff, Ph.D.; both laser physicists working at SRI.

In my opinion, it is Targ and Puthoff who are clearly the early heroes in all of this. These two men (with others) risked their professional reputations to test and evaluate the possibility that human beings can transcend space and time for the purpose of "viewing" persons, places and things, remote in space and time, and collect useable intelligence information on the same. Certainly the vast majority of their colleagues would have loved it if this federally sponsored project had consumed its funding and six years of study only to conclude that there was nothing to it−that it was all worthless and the project should be abandoned. However, this was not the case; instead, the answer was just quite the opposite, there was something to this. This phenomenon was credible, it was measurable and definable and trainable. It was certainly not one hundred percent accurate, but then again, neither was anything else in the intelligence collection assets, they all had their limitations. As long as one understood the limits of the technology, then the technology could be employed as another collector of information−another provider of ‘pieces' of the jigsaw puzzle that was truth in the espionage game. In short, the CIA was handed a new intelligence collection methodology−psychic spies.

To digress briefly, a New York City artist, author and gifted natural psychic, Ingo Swann became one of Dr. Puthoff's first test subjects. According to Mr. Swann, he initially participated in a number of pioneering experiments performed under the auspices of the American Society for Psychical Research. Upon being recruited into the project, Mr. Swann worked with Dr. Hal Puthoff at SRI-International's Radio Physics Laboratory in Menlo Park, California. It was here that Puthoff and Swann−and a number of others−conducted a series of ever-more sophisticated experiments, developing the protocol or structure they ultimately christened "Remote Viewing," opting for this term over the much debated label of "Remote Sensing."

According to Mr. Swann he was tasked by the CIA to train ‘others' in the art and science of Remote Viewing, men who he claimed were bizarre in their manner, mechanistic and cold in their approach to learning Remote Viewing. In a sense, they were there for the training, and then they were gone, never to be seen or heard of again. I use this as one evidence that other Remote Viewing elements existed in the government intelligence agencies. I cannot accept in any way the notion that only one Remote Viewing program existed; this would go against all philosophies and practices within the military and government intelligence agencies to ‘never put all of your eggs in one basket.' Who would spend tens of millions of dollars on a program that existed in one place and had only one life to live−I assure you, nobody in the intelligence community.

Recognizing the potential for controversy and public ridicule (if ever discovered), the CIA did what it has always done−distance itself in word and deed from the project. There is an old adage in ‘the community' that I continually struggled with, ‘Always keep someone between you and the potential problem.' Therefore, the project(s) was handed off to the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), under the program code name ‘Grill Flame.' It is assumed that the other programs continued to thrive under the oversight and administration of other military services and intelligence agencies. However, the Army's program, which was originally begun as a counter-intelligence effort was allegedly doing so well that its mission was destined to morph into something else.

The original mission was to evaluate through ‘reverse engineering' how vulnerable to ‘psychic spying' U.S. intelligence agencies and their secrets were. This was done to such a degree of accuracy that Department of Defense and Army officials decided to change the emphasis from assessing friendly vulnerabilities to actively collecting intelligence information against America's Cold War adversaries. Unfortunately, but expectedly, the Remote Viewers had their detractors among many generals, such as Major General Bill Odom, and later Lieutenant General Harry Soyster; upper-level bureaucrats in the Department of Defense and the CIA, and politicians within the White House, Congress and the Senate.....

http://www.davidmorehouse.com/

Despair not, you too can Remote View, just like the boys in the Company: http://store.soundstrue.com/af00840d.html

Yes, it is a version. I'll give Mr. Morehouse that. It is a version, and anywhere that the truth just won't do—like, f'r'instance an education forum—this version is a fine specimen of "a version" that has as little truck with truth as possible, and therefore should be posted without inspection, criticism, or analysis.



No. Open the damned black files of the CIA that the cowardly lying thieving murdering scum are still hiding about Remote Viewing.



Snakefeathers. Barn carpet. Rank, stank, crank CIA disinformation, and buckets of it.

There are CIA records as early as Monday, 7 January 1952 indicating an intense CIA interest in what was pervasively called at the time "ExtraSensory Perception" (ESP)—which the term "Remote Viewing" is nothing but a synonym for. See Martin Ebon's "Amplified Mind Power Research In The Former Soviet Union."

On or about Wednesday, 6 August 1952, Alexander Puharich delivered a lecture to a Pentagon conference entitled "On the Possible Usefulness of Extrasensory Perception in Psychological Warfare."

As early as 19 June 1964, the CIA had to admit (in the coy language of the pinworm Richard Helms) that it was painfully aware that the Soviets had been using the word "cybernetics" since 1960 to embrace a wide swath of disciplines and technologies of the mind, and that "some of the more esoteric techniques such as ESP or, as the Soviets call it, 'biological radio-communication'" were "receiving some overt attention with, possibly, applications in mind for individual behavior control under clandestine conditions."

By 14 December 1965, Stephen I. Abrams, the Director of the Parapsychological Laboratory, Oxford University, England, under the auspices of CIA's Technical Services Division (later to become the Office of Technical Services [OTS]), and their Project MKULTRA, had a confidential review article entitled "Extrasensory Perception" which claimed ESP has been demonstrated, but was not understood or controllable.

And this "expert" <SPIT!>, Morehouse, is going to "educate" us that CIA suddenly woke up "circa 1972," like some latter-day Sleeping Beauty, eyelids all aflutter, and suddenly realized that there was something called the "paranormal"?

That's some verson of "history" you got going there. I won't waste another second of my time bothering to document the rest of the lies in it, because they already are thoroughly documented elsewhere in this forum and in The Remote Viewing Timeline.

But if we're going to be water-carriers for the CIA's disinformation divisions, why don't we just lobby to change the name to "The Disinformation Forum" and be done. Then we can all relax and be a clipping service for this kind of swill, like Caddy.

Ashton