One new topic in the English forum is "Teaching the Holocaust". I think it might be a tempting and interesting idea to find out how this topic is dealt with in the different European states and the difficulties we as History teachers are confronted with. Following are some of my experiences and ideas.

I am a German teacher and my problems with the topic are slightly different from the ones mentioned in the mails so far.

Many of our pupils show signs of what has been called "Holocaust fatigue". They believe that they already know everything they need to know when they reach the German year ten when the 30's are one of the main History topics. The pupils' impression is not completely wrong as sometimes primary school teachers deal with some aspects like the Hitler Youth in the first school years and often other subjects than History deal with the Holocaust. At the same time we notice that the pupils do not know or remember much about the Holocaust and they do not know how it could/did happen mostly in broad daylight. But "Holocuast fatigue" makes it very difficult to motivate the pupils to once again have a closer look at what really happened and why the majority of the German people cooperated or turned a blind eye. Still today most of the ones actively involved in the genocide feel and show no remorse.

Another aspect which makes it difficult to teach this topic (and infuriates me personally) is the fact that quite a number of politicians and intellectuals want to make us believe that we should stop looking back at that time and simply should concentrate on other things. Very often the pupils feel that they are directly blamed for the things their grandparent generation did and understandably the kids resent this.

The number of witnesses decreasing makes it difficult to confront the pupils with the real horrors of the concentration camps or what it meant opposing the system. I have tried out many different ways not only to motivate my pupils for a more or less scientific approach but also to make them feel and understand what was going on. I have found that documenatries and films like "Schindler's list" are a good way to get the pupils interested in the fate of different people and make them
feel empathy.

Another approach which I have tried out successfully, is to use literature and paintings, especially the drawings made by victims of the Holocaust. With older (Sixth Form) pupils I often use Adorno's description of typical features of what he called an "authoritarian character" and which he believd to be the ideal recipient of any form of racist ideology. The list can be translated into a questionaire and the pupils mostly discover that they themselves show many signs of an authoritarian character. The initial responses are anger, frustration, disbelieve, questioning the reliability and validity of the questionaire. But after the first outbursts they want to find out what really happened and what turned people into (to use Goldhagen's title) "willing executioners" and of course that they never would turn into a willing executioner. What is even more important for me at the end of the unit we try to find out how we can avoid another Auschwitz and what our speacial situation as Germans still today is and will always be. The pupils still don't want to be blamed for the activties of their grandparents but they see that we have a special obligation not to forget and not to minimizeor downplay the unbelievable atrocity and inhumanity of the Holocaust.

One approach which was mentioned in the previous mails was to confront the pupils with statements/websites which deny the Holocaust. This sounds very interesting and I will try this out with one of my next year ten History classes. By the way denying Auschwitz and the Holocaust is a crime in Germany and directing the pupils to websites which do exactly this is a bit tricky and requires asking the parents' permission. But so far the parents have always given their consent.

A few years ago our school was visited by a group of German students. They joined my sociology group and we discussed differences between the two school systems. It emerged during the discussion that the German students had been shocked by the fact that British students wore school uniforms. They felt very uncomfortable about this as they associated the idea with the Hitler Youth (they told me that school uniforms are banned in Germany because of what happened in the 1930s).

I got the impression from the debate that we had that German students have been far more successful at coming to terms with their history than those in Britain. During the days of the British Empire we were responsible for the deaths of millions of people. In places like Ireland and India our imperialistic policies resulted in large numbers of people dying of starvation. These are issue that are rarely dealt with in British classrooms. (Information from the web suggests that the Irish Famine (1846-50) is taught in some schools in America under the heading “Genocide Studies”.

British history teachers are far happier studying the bad behaviour of other nations than tackling the crimes of our own ancestors. Although I think it is vitally important that we study our own dark history, we must make sure we do not encourage our students to feel a sense of guilt about the country’s past. If we do, we are bound to get a negative reaction.

My view is that when teaching about subjects like genocide it is important to stress the political and sociological pressures that people were under to behave in this way. At the same time, it is important to look at those examples of people who resisted this pressure to behave in an honourable way. All good teaching involves encouraging the positive rather than punishing the negative. In Germany you have plenty of examples of people who fought against the ideology and actions of the Nazis. These people are excellent role models for your (and my) students.

Anyone who has studied history knows that the human race has done some terrible things in the past. However, I remain an optimist. During every one of these black periods, individuals, bravely stood up and said it was wrong. They usually suffered greatly for rejecting the dominant ideology. However, whether they were protesting against racial persecution, slavery, child labour, genocide, military dictatorships, etc., they eventually won (although many were not alive to see it). In the same way that those on the receiving end of Jewish racial prejudice today will eventually win. As Oscar Wilde once said: “Disobedience in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and rebellion.”

Although I think it is vitally important that we study our own dark history, we must make sure we do not encourage our students to feel a sense of guilt about the country’s past. If we do, we are bound to get a negative reaction. (John Simkin)

I think this is an important aspect. In a way one could say that in Germany we are "forced" to look at the very dark side of our history beacuse the crime committed was so terrible and has shown how thin the layer of "civilisation" really is and what human beings are capable of. If we tried to gloss over our history or turn a blind eye to its dark sides the world and the our neighbours would rightly remind us of what Germans did. But I also think that we have to teach the Holocaust in a way that pupils understand the "guilt" of the parent/grandparent generation but without making them feel guilty, beacuse this only produces resentment on the pupils' side.

At the same time, it is important to look at those examples of people who resisted this pressure to behave in an honourable way. All good teaching involves encouraging the positive rather than punishing the negative. In Germany you have plenty of examples of people who fought against the ideology and actions of the Nazis. These people are excellent role models for your (and my) students. (John Simkin)

I agree wholeheartedly as I think that we all need positive role models. And we have to show the pupils that those who said no and paid dearly for their resistance were ordinary human beings like our pupils who were afraid of pain, death, feared for their families and the loved ones. It is important to make the pupils see that no one is born a hero and no one is born a perpetrator and that it is up to the individual to choose. And they have to see that they are responsible not only for the things they do but also for the things they do not do.

Living and teaching in democratic societies we really should encourage our pupils to question rules and laws and follow Oscar Wilde's credo.

I have always found teaching the Holocaust to be very difficult, and in some years I have even minimised the amount of time spent on this topic, although subsequently I have realised that I was wrong to do so. Why? Well apart from the obvious reasons that the topic itself is very painful, I have the added 'pressure' of having a mixed German and Jewish heritage (German protestant grandfather - leftwing anti fascist who was forced to escape from the police station after being arrested - a great story which I tell my students, German Jewish grandmother who was too old for the Kindertransport - her sister went to the USA, but managed to get out of Germany in 1938 and come to stay with a Jewish family in England - not the most pleasant experience as she was effectively treated as a servant). I am anxious not to focus on the 'gore factor' of the death camps, it is impossible to convey the sense of enormity of the genocide and I am also aware that there were other genocides that have happened, most recently in rwanda or in former Yugoslavia which have a more direct impact on the students that I teach, many of whom are recent refugees from these areas.
What I have felt to be successful are the assemblies and displays that i have produced over the last few years. Last year I found some drawings from the Children's camp at Auschwitz and was able to use them on a powerpoint presentation. This year I will be focusing on the Rwandan genocide and have some excellent paintings from a Bristol based artist who visited Rwanda shortly after the genocide. My mother has also written play about a Rwandan survivor who came to England and wrote a book about her experiences - it is based on her work at the Medical Foundation for the Victims of Torture, so I shall be using extracts from her play in assemblies.

Maybe other teachers would be able to share the resources that they have produced on teaching the Holocaust.

John - I am not sure what you meant by the phrase 'In the same way that those on the receiving end of Jewish racial prejudice today will eventually win' - I fear that you have fallen into the trap of equating all Jews with the offensive policies of Ariel Sharon - there are many Jewish and Israeli opponents within and outside Israel that oppose his policies towards the Palestinians and support the establishment of a Palestinian state.

A good web-site to visit is Jews for Justice - www.jfjfp.org Or try typing in 'Self Hating Jews' into google for a interesting perspective. Noam Chomsky and Woody Allen make this list.

This is how I feel about teaching the Holocaust from a British perspective.

What most concerns me about the Holocaust and teaching the Holocaust to our students is the huge emphasis that is always put upon the idea, "This must never be allowed to happen again." Which is of course buttresses the idea that this was the last act of genocide to happen on the planet in the last 59 years. The Isreali's have been pursuing a policy of racial genocide against the Arabs since the Holocaust. I find it hypocritical to devote teaching time to the Holocaust without then subsequently talking about the genocide of the Palenstinians, Kurds, Cambodians etc... A key question is; why has the Holocaust become so entrenched in our consciousness, that our government feel the need to hightlight this the only act of genocide worth studying? Or to re-phrase this quection; when we study Vietnam, or the events at Hiroshima, why do we not also call these events genocidal?

When teaching in Briatin I was disgusted to find that the chapter in the text book of the bombing of Hiroshima, wanted students to debate that it was right to drop the atomic bomb. This shows a blatent contradiction in how we deal with acts of mass murder.

It is also wrong in my view, to portray the systematic execution of the Jews, as a crime which is in someways worse than other crimes. Depicting the Holocaust as the ultimate act of evil, somehow makes other acts of seem 'less evil' and detracts from all the misery and suffering that other people in the world have endured, due to Western foreign policy. This buttresses the idea that Jewish lives and Europeans lives, are worth more than South East Asian lives, or South American lives or Arab lives or African lives. In teaching British history why not cast aside the Holocaust and devote that time of looking at our own acts of genocide. We don't need to spend any time looking at other countries crimes, we have enough of our own to look at.

I don't either want to downplay or minimise the attrocities of the Holocaust, but elevating the Holocaust above other acts of genocide is I feel is dangerous.

Dear John,
teaching the Holocaust and stressing its historic importance does not mean not having a critical look at atrocities which happened before and which happened afterwards. But the importance of the Holocaust is (I am afraid I am repeating myself) that for the first time in history -unfortuantely not the last as Cambodia, Rwanda etc. show- the political leaders of a country devised a plan, implemented the logistics, used the methods of "trial and error" to find out the most effective way of killing many people in the shortest time possible and eventually used the means of industrial production to kill a people. It was the first planned and most effective genocide which did not originate from and was not justified by a war, riot or attempted revolution.

When teaching the Holocaust or better the Third Reich I do not limit my lessons to the genocide of the European Jews but also talk about the genocide of the romanies, the systematic persecution and murder of homosexuals, Jehova's witnesses, the Polish political and intellectual elite and those who fought against the system.

I also mention that there were quite a number of people in the defeated/conquered European countries who gave the Nazis and the SS a helping hand; the film "Shoah" shows a number of impressive and depressing examples.
I might spend more lesson on discussing the Third Reich and World War II but 19th/20th century history of imperialism or the wars on the Balkans then and now, Africa, the decolonisation process with its wars ... are also part of either the History or Politics curriculum.

Teaching the Holocaust is the matter of a long thread in Schoolhistory.
http://www.schoolhistory.co.uk/forum/index...?showtopic=2410

Ulricke on "Holocaust fatigue" :
http://www.schoolhistory.co.uk/forum/index...opic=2410&st=31

2 messages on the French views :
http://www.schoolhistory.co.uk/forum/index...opic=2410&st=36
http://www.schoolhistory.co.uk/forum/index...opic=2410&st=49

Dan 's views about genocides have been set last year,
when European leaders decided that there should be a
"Journée de la mémoire de l'Holocauste et de la prévention des crimes contre l'humanité"

Daniel

Hi. I just want to know, do any of you have the same difficulty teaching the history of slavery?

I am inclined to add my feelings behind Dan and not behind Andy. It's a shame some people have to be so full of victriolic and rhetoric - where is your spirit of the objective and parity driven historian, Andy? All I can sense is tension and anger which I don't believe befits this topic. I agree with your notion that the debate must be widened to include the unfortunate events and tragedies experienced by all nations, creds, colours, religions and societies but not whilst you attack one or other nations.

Dear Moderator - isn't this also straying from the topic of "Teaching the Holocaust"?

Just a little disappointed right now.....



Gidz

Sorry Andy - I meant John......
In my focus of disappointmnet I got a name wrong.

Sorry Forum



Gidz

I fear we are in danger of getting off the topic of the debate - this should be about the teaching of the Holocaust - and of course this is bound to arouse passions which is good as that is what this forum is for - but at least attempt to make he postings relevant - It would be interesting, for example to hear about how they teach the Holocaust in Israel or how (or if) they teach about in in the neighbouring countries.

After a quick google search I came across this very interesting discussion about teaching the Holocaust to Arab Israelis:
http://www.yad-vashem.org.il/download/educ...nf/Abramski.pdf

One of the key points is quoted here

Interesting thread. I don't think the discussion of slavery is off the point. The whole concept of Nazi racism was to use Eastern European 'untermensch' as slaves. Indeed, the earliest internments of Jews was in labour camps to work them to death, and not - at first - to exterminate the race through other programmes. This surely is slavery. It provides an ideal link between our Year 8 course which has a topic on slavery, and Year 9 component on the holocaust. It brings forward appropriate consideration of the continuities rather than just the changes in history.

Many years ago there was an article by someone - I think he was called Vincent (surname) - on 'Empire, Race and War'. It was about the way British attitudes to 'foreigners' was tempered by our experiences especially in Africa which had led the British to consider themselves the superior race. This is not too far from the later Nazi ideology which, I seem to remember, was bolstered up by the writings of Houston Stuart Chamberlain - a great influence on Goebbels and Rosenberg.

At the end of my unit on the Holocaust I ask pupils to consider the question 'Have we Learned from the Past?' They look at genocides after World War Two. In teacher led discussion we look at the nature of some of these. Follow-up homework is to answer the question using a single example or two which pupils research on the internet or in a library.

By the way - thanks for correcting the error - i was nearly upset for a moment!! lol

I think the idea, 'Have we learned anything from the past?' is perfect way to phrase a unit of work about the Holocaust.

There are several points here I would like to make to different points on this thread.
I do stick by my orginal feelings on this issue, that there is a implicit scale system of genocide introduced by Western indoctrination, which places the Holocaust as the worst ever example of racial genocide, and therefore in some ways detracts from acts of genocide, racial or non-racial, that our country and other Western countries have committed post 1945. The Holocaust is consistantly used as reference point for all other genocidal acts, due to premeditation of the acts, the intensity of the crimes, and the scale and scope of the mass murder. We are Europeans, so it is important that the Holocaust is taught in European schools, but I feel it is important that is not exclusively the Holocaust that is taught as the only example of genocide, as this negates our responsibilty for our current acts of murder and supporting regimes that murder people around the world. Or if we are to teach about the bombing of Hiroshima or the carpet bombings of Vietnam, or the landmines in Cambodia, or the Russian persecution of Chechians, or the Israeli persecution of the Palestinians, or British and Americans persecution of the Iraqis or the thousand other acts of aggression that have been committed since the Holocaust, then we call these acts genocide in our history books.

With Rwanda in mind and the first weeks of April in 1994, there is a strong argument that says the British, American, French and Belgium, knew that genocidal tension was growing in Rwanda and did nothing to stop these acts. Belgium actually removed troops from the area. America did not act because they didn't want to get involoved in another peacekeeping mission after Somalia. The point that really upsets me, is that this was an act of medieval genocide. The weapons used were mostly knives and blades. A ground force of over 500 US or British marines could have had essentially stopped the genocide in days and saved many lives.

At the same time in 1994 it was revealed that British and US sanctions on Iraq were causing the estimate deaths of 2000 infants per month. A figure that now stands at close to one million deaths due to ten years of sanctions. The reason for these sanctions, was as we were led to believe, to stop Saddam producing weapons of mass destruction, which he never had and never did. Also we couldn't find anyone 'we wanted' to replace him with. The principles of our liberal consciousness were once again laid open for all to see.

These to me are acts of genocide comparable to the Holocaust in intent, which the British and the West have committed with no remorse. We talk about Hitler's willing executioners, by simply supporting the US over the last twelve months Britain has become America's willing executioners in Iraq.

The persecution of Palestinians by Israel - As person of my own mind and with the abillity to express my opinion on this subject, in this an open forum - I cannot allow anyone to express on opinion without my challenge, that suggests that Israel is not persecuting the Palestinians. This is open fact, in which every major aid agency supports. Basic human rights of the Palestinians are being neglected on every level by the Israeli government. There are very vocal sections of the Jewish community that do not advocate this violence, these groups, such as Jews for Justice, I wholeheartly support. As there are very vocal sections of the Arab community that do not support suicide bombings, whom I also support. What I don't support are Israeli attack helicopters, bought by American tax payers, flying through settlements shooting at water towers and innocent people in the name of bigger Israel. Or suicide bombers blowing themselves up on school buses in the name of Allah. In my opinion the biggest threat to middle east stabillity has always been the Israel-Palestinian issue. Conversely it could also be the biggest gateway for middle-east peace.

On the issue of teaching the Holocaust - I do not wish to downplay the importence of these acts, but really to highlight the importence of current acts of genocide which my country has committed and of which I am ashamed. Which I feel should be discussed in British classrooms.

I thank Dan for responding to my ideas in a measured and intellectual manner stating where he disagrees, only in part, with my ideas, which is nothing less than what I would expect from any member on this forum who wishes to debate an historical topic. I would ask others, if anyone disagrees with my comments, which are radically charged I admit, to please state the precise counter arguement to my points, instaed of just labelling me as vitriolic.

One of the wider points I want to highlight and this could very easily cross over into the debate of Nationalism on this forum, is that the German government and the German people have taken real measures to try deal with this the Holocaust. I was delighted to hear from Ulrike that at her school some neo-nazi poster were seen on campus and the students held a huge demonstration, organised and created by the students against these posters. I think I'm also correct in saying Germany has the highest voting turn out of any European country. The impression I get, is that German people are engaged in grass-root politics in positive way and are willing to accept the national significance of the Holocaust.

If we compare this to Britain then if neo-nazi posters went up at schools in Manchester, the majority of students would simply walk past and ignore them, not even contemplating the wider significance of the posters. And I think I'm also correct in saying Britian has the lowest voting turn out of any European country.

In part I think the reason for this lack of awarness due to nationalistic history teaching, which promotes a non-critical reflection of our society. In turn promoting a non-critical reflection of any political party or politcial system.

From my experience collaborating with and visiting to German schools in Rhineland and Baden-Würtemberg, I think that German people has been quite more successful in their dealing with their Nazi past than, for example, Italians and Spanish dealing with Mussolini and Franco's dictatorships. Of course, there are evident reasons for this fact: Italy didn't undergo any sort of "defascistization" (does it make sense in English?) and Franco died quietly (and very, very late) in his bed in 1975.
This is a serious drawback for both Mediterranean countries and the lack of a serious settling with their past is a burden for their political systems (just have a glance at some of Mr. Berlusconi and their former fascist allies attitudes and Mr. Aznar's, whose party recently rejected to condemn Franco's uprising in the Spanish parliament).
Sometimes, I think that, despite some neo-nazi movements, Germany is one of the European countries more committed agains totalitarism in Europe.

I agree that teaching the Holocaust eventually not only leads to a closer exploration of genocides which unfortunately followed but also to the history and historic background of the conflict in the Near East.
Being German and feeling the responsibulty history lay on my shoulders it still is difficult to express my opinion about this conflict in a public forum. Germans criticising the actions of the state of Israel are easily and quickly blamed of expressing anti-semitic feelings. Personally I differentiate between the Jewish people and the state of Israel. Israel is a democray and sees itself as a member of the democratic states of this world; furthermore its is a member of the UN0 and in consequence what the state of Israel does must conform with the principles and rules all democratic states and members of the UNO have to follow and must be judged by. But understandably Jewish history and especially the experience of the Holocaust have left their marks and I think still influence the policy of Israel having as their main aim the preservation of their won nation state. That the Palestinian authorities have internationally accepted that the state of Israel has a right to exist seems to be belied by every suicide attack.
I agree that peace only can be brought about when both sides stop resorting to military or terrorist means, but I cannot yet see how this is going to happen.
I can imagine that many Israelis feel that the peace process initiated by e.g. Rabin has not brought any results; the government now has decided to use the military and fencing people off to bring maybe not peace but safety to the region which so fa has only led to more bloodshed and violence.
Unfortunately I see no Jewish or Palestinian Nelson Mandela who is willing to break to circle of violence and terror.
Talking about the Near East conflict in class for me means to explain and exemplify the difference between the activities of a state and its democratically elected government on the one hand and the various historic experiences which have shaped the lives of the Israeli people and their fears and hopes.

Would any of the protagonists in this interesting "sub-debate" mind if I set up a new discussion thread on the Arab-Israeli Conflict and transferred the relevant posts there. I believe that as it stands a teacher visiting this thread expecting to read about "teaching the holocaust" would be a tad confused by its contents

The Middle East Debate now appears here.

A recent survey carried out by the Jewish Chronicle revealed that one British person in seven believes that the scale of the Nazi Holocaust against Jews is exaggerated.

The same survey showed that nearly 20% - one in five – of those questioned also said that a Jewish prime minister would be less acceptable than a member of any other faith. These figures could be especially significant in Britain as Michael Howard, the leader of the Conservative Party, is the first Jewish leader of a major political in recent times.

Despite these depressing survey results, a leading expert in the field commented that these findings indicated that anti-Semitism in Britain was lower than in the United States or other parts of Europe.

The Guardian includes a very interesting article today by Janina Struk about one of the most shocking photographs taken during the Second World War. The picture shows soldiers about to execute a group of naked men and boys. Struk points out, historians have been unable to identify the country of the soldiers or the victims. However, she points out that by the use of captions and cropping of the photograph, the picture has been used over the years by various different groups. It is an article that could be used profitably in a lesson on how photographs can be used as propaganda. Struk ends the article with the claim that the photograph in one sense, tells us nothing (we will never know the names of the perpetrators or the victims). However, in another sense, it tells us so much about the history of the Second World War and its aftermath.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/st...1131825,00.html

I think the photo was part of an exhibition which toured Germany two or three years ago. The main aim of the exhibition compiled by Philipp Reemtsma and his foundation was to question the long-held belief that the German army did partake in massacres and mass executions of civilians. As the photo does not clearly show which nationality the soldiers have and if they are soldiers at all the whole exhibition and its message was questioned and in a way discredited. The ones who had organised it stopped its tour through Germany and revised it removing all questionable material. A new exhibition will be presented to the public this year ( I am not sure).

While the exhibition was moving from one German city to the next the far right organised mass demonstrations against it and called "to arms" all the hooligans they could find to turn the streets into battlefields and frighten the cities and their councillors. Some cities gave in to the mob others didn't.

My hometown Braunschweig made a complete fool of itself: the city wanted the exhibition but in a school building on the outskirts of the city - out of reach for most people. There was a long and heated debate in the city council and the local newspaper but the councillors remained unmoved by the majority of people who wanted to have the exhibition in the guildhall. Before the debate came to an end the exhibition was closed because of unidentifiable photos.

What struck me most - though I should have known better - was reaction of many people who still firmly believe that the German army followed the old Prussian principles of "honest" and "clean" warfare (whatever that is). Despite many studies showing how much the army was involved in the mass executions, that they did not only turn a blind eye to the activities of the SS but actively supported them and also turned into Hitler's willing executioners most people and many schoolbooks deny or remain silent about the atrocities and crimes committed by the German army.

Debate now re-opened.

Andy,
good idea. Thank you

Sure our 'friends' wont be back?

I have spoken to my mother and told her that I posted up extracts from her play (here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...t=0&#entry1597) . Should you want to use part of them in your assembly she would be more than happy. I have a powerpoint of images but it takes up a lot of memory - I can send you one or two images of you want. Good Luck with the assembly, I think it is one of the most important of the school year.

Dan,
I am not quite sure if this is a new thread. Talking about the Holocaust and the genocides which followed and asking how things like these could happen leads to confronting the prjeudices and cliches we all have about different people and we should try to create a climate in class where even those with radical and "unpleasant" views can express them openly and without any fear of being "punished" for them. Only when we know how and what our students really feel will we find ways to reach them with the topic "Holocaust" and to address their own radical views and what is behind them.
Unfortunately the far-right wing movements are popular among young (mainly male) people, who feel threatened by people being different, who are afraid of losing their job or not finding a job, who in a fairly open, democratic and permissive society are looking for strict rules and hierarchies which they perceive as guarantees of a special, superior status and personal security.

I've got 3 boys who have stated quite formally and seriously that their intended career path is Islamic Jihad. Worryingly they appear to have a prepared answer for most questions and challenges that we have thrown at them.

Do you know if they themseleves have had any negative experiences like being harassed or dicriminated against? What about their parents. In Germany we are worried baout private Muslim schools; these are not real schools but schools the students go to in the afternoon and which look more like clubs than proper schools although the young people are educated in the Koran. As these are private venues the government does not have thr right to control what or how the Koran is taught.
The main problem in Germany still is the confrontation with far-right wing, neo-fascist/Nazi attitudes among young people. Those who are part of this scene/subculture behave in nearly the same way as your students. One effective means to get them back to rational thinking seem to be role plays and simulations in which those with these radical ideas have to play the role of victims or potential victims.

In the Netherlands we do have regular muslim schools and some people here are very concerned about what is being taught. However my point of view is that every type of education should be availbe for interested persons. Why allow christian schools and no muslems schools?