Hi,

As I was watching the DVD: "JFK: Assassination Films" by Groden. I came across the footage of Tina Towner.
After frame by frame play I came to the conclusion there were frames missing. I Have added the the captures below:

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Anyone seen a version of her film without the splice?
I cannot imagine her pausing her recording..... and doing so in 1 frame.... Makes me think it was edited. But a bit less obvious/crude than the splice in Z155 of the MPI.
If it was edited...... Why? Seems a harmless piece of film..

Maarten

Maarten, if you check the sun reflection in the frames before and after it seems it peaks at the splice and likely there was a frame there that was simply overexposed.

Maarten/John,

When this animation gets to Maartens description of the splice/break/operator movement /whatever, I slow down and repeat that point.

The picture included, is the camera movement between and including the frames up to that point. Which is 6 frames , then #7 has the big shift.

Tina Towner is very steady in her filming, except for the frame that Maarten has pointed out.

That shift is approx. (7) of her normal frame movements.

chris

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ost&p=27467

Yep - I posted that some time ago - the attachment seems to be missing.

Hi,

Thanks!!!

I think Chris describes the best what is bothering me. Jackie has moved a lot in one frame! The second.... Jackie is passed the point where Mrs Connelly was in the first one.
I just found it today. And did not have a chance to do any calculations. But it seems to fit to me, Chris..... WOW!

I have Googled some, and came across a link by you, John. Something with framerate. Did noy imply the cut.... so... end.

The next thing that bothers me, is the why.
Did something happen?
As well as, could this be the spot in the WR that was reenacted?
I can remember having seen reconstruction foto's here in the Forun, from the WR. From Zapruder point of view. And one shows the limo on the left side of the roadsign (from memory). Just a thought...
Could mean special interest in that location. Just as the reenactment films ,imo, shows a lot of hot spots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKx-1h_uvN8
As the official Zapruder film starts at 133 to film Kennedy. And these frames I made earlier on Elm.
Since I can see the firestairs of the TSBD, I'd say it is safe to presume that she was filming (near) parallel to the Houston street side of the TSBD.
And I would guess that the limo is parallel to the TSBD.

According to Groden's DVD, she stops filming when the shots rang out... or was that cut too.... from CT point of view.
On the downside. She was a young girl, and the events close to her startled a lot of people. Willis taking pictire #5. Rosemary turning after stopping running... and eventually Moorman who polaroided Kennedy, as a reaction to a shot. Not like the newscrew who dove on the Newman family... She could well be startled and stopped filming, but that is after the first noticable shot.... Would leave the immediate result, and her turning off the camera, and all the blurring/ghosting that comes with it. But Jack White is more knowlidgable at this point (by far).
My experience is with more modern equipment. Hi-8 was my first camera (analog video, film is chemical. Chemical is use once.... sort of double exposure). And by using the pause button, the motor starts running, the tape gets wound around the video-heads. But still get jitter from the unpause button, and the tape needs "some" time to accellerate (That issue is fixed nowadays with flash eeproms, but not available at thàt time... so irrelevant). And pausing again, causes jitter as well, and slowing of the tape. Visible when not edited (those frames removed. Makes smoother video).
These are the technoligies of 94-95. Zapruder's camera, state of the art at the time so I am told, still has to cope with those things I mentioned before, yet no trace of those things can be found. Either in the (now) Towner film, or any of the Zapruder cuts.. Smells....

Thanks.
Maarten

Maarten....FYI..

Here is where Tina and her Father James Towner were situated...

She took her film from the curb across from the Book
Depository showing the limousine turning onto Elm, passing the TSD,
down Elm St..Till just about the first shot, then it shows the area North of Elm
just after shots..


Tina's camera..

http://users.skynet.be/copweb/jfk/Tina%20Towner%20Camera.htm

B..

Thanks Bernice for the photos. Do you know who took the last one where the Towner's are seen from behind?

The Towner film as shown on the documentary made by the Discovery Channel is much clearer than the Groden version. As several of the other films of the assassination are. They are clearer and of better quality, but are by some researchers regarded as what is called 'eye-candy', because of the many computer enhancing processes which were used. Also the fact that the footage used when 'enhancing', was too far from the original footage to begin with. I do not know exactly which processes were used in this case, but I think I remember Gary Mack said that the Discovery Channel was allowed access to some of the material at the museum.

Tina Towner herself said that she stopped filming, as the president was not more in her view.

But sometimes when wathcing the assassination films, many of the films seem to stop/start/cut/break/something exactly at the right(wrong) moment. And its frustrating. As Gary M. said in that production, something like 'many people don't realize how many photographers where there', and 'they all missed the crucial thing-which is the person in the window'.

When I used the term 'eye-candy', I was referring more in general; i.e the term has been used to desribe the Costella version of the Z-film. I would be in error to generalize and state that all the footage in the Discovery channel production is 'eye-candy' and useless. That was not my intention,even though it seems that is what I managed to do. I do not know which processes were used by the Archangel to enhance the Muchmore film, and Gary Mack has informed me that the simple reason that the films are so clear in the Discovery productions, is that the orignal camera films were used. Transferred to tape under his supervision for The Sixth Floor Museum, and the films' owners.

Hi,

Thanks Bernice for setting me straight on Tina Towner. At the youngest a young woman, not a young girl...

Trygve: "But sometimes when wathcing the assassination films, many of the films seem to stop/start/cut/break/something exactly at the right(wrong) moment. And its frustrating. As Gary M. said in that production, something like 'many people don't realize how many photographers where there', and 'they all missed the crucial thing-which is the person in the window'."
- Yeah! How (un)lucky can you be.

Maarten

Hi Marteen

This below is a wee gif clip of the Towner, not much...it is a few years old, and sorry
but I do not know now where or whom it came from....

I believe it also may show, what
you have found, a cut, splice break whatever...it is obvious....FWIW..

Marteen I will have to mail it to you..as it will not upload...
I will contact you......if you are interested...

Always welcome..

B

Bump, did not go to the head of the class..??
B

(image)

Hi John,

Looks fingerlicking good.

Did you use an uncut version?????

What program did you use?
I would like to do something like that with the Zap film. Without stabilization. So the relation between "camera movement" and ghosting can be established.

Maarten

Lee:

I see, on the link you gave, mention of a jump in Towner film. Make referrence to same "event".
Your version is same as mine..

From what I heard, the film has always been in the Towner's posession, except for a few occasions.... No copies made..

Still hope for an unjumped version.

Maarten

Maarten, if you go to the rather long 'missing nix frames' topic you'll find in the first few pages a description of 'how'.

If not clear, let me know.