Julie Ditolla

Hi Kathleen, Pat, Pamela,

Yes, I did see the show - it was on "The History Channel" - my impression of the show was that they were bound and determined that they were going to PROVE that LHO was the assassin, that the bullet COULD HAVE been pristine, and their various other assertions that could pass the "My-Name-is-Winston-I-rewrite-history-because-I-work-for-the-'Ministry of Truth' Orwellian" litmus test.

Oh, they went to great expense, and to such great lengths to "prove" these things - and in so doing, merely reaffirming my opinion that it's (the Government whitewash) all been lies, ALWAYS!

Is there a reason for them to come out some 40-odd years later (with the "we have to tell the NEW generation just what happened, but WE'RE using the voluminous amount of MODERN forensic techniques available NOW, and not through the accepted-practices of 1963; we couldn't tell THAT story - because it was a lie - we have to make it exciting and entertaining and, most of all, PLAUSIBLE for these info-tainment 'suckers'."), is it because they have a whole, new generation to attempt to brainwash?? Say, can anyone tell me just when the sealed documents are supposed to become UNsealed?

Pat, I'll have to check out your prior thread and your links.

~JD~

Hi all - I guess that this is as good a time as any to update my bio and link - I haven't been in for a long time, but got the e-mail and read it as BENIGN...I saw no persecutorial evidence.

So I'm "updated" for any of my friends and contacts - those who may want the info.

I do get the weekly updates and read those...I just haven't taken time out to post recently.

Hi there, John S, Andy W. - I hope things are going well despite the fact that there are apparently some buzzkills who are taking themselves way too seriously.

Bene!

P.S. I have seen a couple of 2 hour TV specials here in the States about the JFK assassination - it appears that our FCC controlled TV stations are trying to "convince us" that there is a perfectly plausible explanation for the "magic bullet" theory - and seem to go to astounding lengths with experiments conducted in Australia (where the first news stories about the assassination appeared, before it had even happened here in the States), in order to prove that LHO did the dirty deed. Where is he now that we REALLY need him? lol

I would tend to agree with John S. and Thomas P. - I can see their points of view. Each year I figure my taxes and while I am not happy about how the U.S. government "spends my money" in the main, I am happy to contribute at a rate of about 13 - 15 % across the board.

The way I see it, I am making the "tithe" to "mammon"(in addition to, NOT in lieu of, my tithe to God) - at 10% with another 3 - 5 % for the programs I truly DO believe in.

Any additional contributions that I may make to private or public charities is my REAL tithe.

The Government is more than happy to take their share - and I am happy to give; I am willing to support "social programs" as long as they are used aright.

What is most galling to me is the cases which have blown up in our news in the U.S. - ENRON and the like - in which the perpetrators of theft and fraud seem to "skate" with a slap on the wrist - when, in my opinion, ALL of their "ill-gotten" gains should be ferretted out from wherever those persons have invested / hidden then money, the entire amount seized and returned to the investors and/or the public coffers. From MY point of view, THIS is the area in which "morality" applies, not taxation rates per se.

Just an opinion - certainly not FACT; but from what I "perceive" going on in the world, I thought I would share it here.

Bear with me...this is a long one...

(I am submitting this one in honor of my dear departed brother-in-law, Bill, who could tell story jokes so well that it would take me three weekend visits for him to get to the punch line! This one doesn’t take quite that long and Tim’s Microsoft joke reminded me that I had it tucked away for an occasion such as this.)

Abbott & Costello - A modern version of "Who's on first?" - Enjoy!

(COSTELLO CALLS TO BUY A COMPUTER FROM ABBOTT . . . )

ABBOTT: Super Duper computer store. Can I help you?

COSTELLO: Thanks, I'm setting up an office in my den and I'm thinking

about buying a computer.

ABBOTT: Mac?

COSTELLO: No, the name's Lou.

ABBOTT: Your computer?

COSTELLO: I don't own a computer. I want to buy one.

ABBOTT: Mac?

COSTELLO: I told you, my name's Lou.

ABBOTT: What about Windows?

COSTELLO: Why? Will it get stuffy in here?

ABBOTT: Do you want a computer with Windows?

COSTELLO: I don't know. What will I see when I look in the windows?

ABBOTT: Wallpaper.

COSTELLO: Never mind the windows. I need a computer and software.

ABBOTT: Software for Windows?

COSTELLO: No. On the computer! I need something I can use to write

proposals, track expenses and run my business. What have you got?

ABBOTT: Office.

COSTELLO: Yeah, for my office...can you recommend anything?

ABBOTT: I just did.

COSTELLO: You just did what?

ABBOTT: Recommend something.

COSTELLO: You recommended something?

ABBOTT: Yes.

COSTELLO: For my office?

ABBOTT: Yes.

COSTELLO: OK, what did you recommend for my office?

ABBOTT: Office.

COSTELLO: Yes, for my office!

ABBOTT: I recommend Office with Windows.

COSTELLO: I already have an office with windows! OK, lets just say

I'm sitting at my computer and I want to type a proposal. What do I

need?

ABBOTT: Word.

COSTELLO: What word?

ABBOTT: Word in Office.

COSTELLO: The only word in office is office

ABBOTT: The Word in Office for Windows.

COSTELLO: Which word in office for windows?

ABBOTT: The Word you get when you click the blue "W".

COSTELLO: I'm going to click YOUR blue "w" if you don't start with

some straight answers....OK, forget that. Can I watch movies on the Internet?

ABBOTT: Yes, you want Real One.

COSTELLO: Maybe a real one, maybe a cartoon. What I watch is none of

your business. Just tell me what I need!

ABBOTT: Real One.

COSTELLO: If it's a long movie I also want to see reel Two, Three AND Four!! Can I watch them?

ABBOTT: Of course.

COSTELLO: Great! With what?

ABBOTT: Real One.

COSTELLO: OK, I'm at my computer and I want to watch a movie. What

do I do?

ABBOTT: You click the blue "1".

COSTELLO: I click the blue one what?

ABBOTT: The blue "1".

COSTELLO: Is that different from the blue w?

ABBOTT: The blue "1" is Real One and the blue "W" is Word.

COSTELLO: What word?

ABBOTT: The Word in Office for Windows.

COSTELLO: But there are three words in "office for windows"!

ABBOTT: No, just one…but it’s the most popular Word in the world.

COSTELLO: It is?

ABBOTT: Yes, but to be fair, there aren't many other Words left. It

pretty much wiped out all the other Words out there.

COSTELLO: And that word is real one?

ABBOTT: Real One has nothing to do with Word. Real One isn't even

part of Office.

COSTELLO: STOP! Don't start that again. What about financial

bookkeeping? You have anything I can track my money with?

ABBOTT: Money

COSTELLO: That's right. What do you have?

ABBOTT: Money.

COSTELLO: I need money to track my money?

ABBOTT: It comes bundled with your computer.

COSTELLO: What's bundled with my computer?

ABBOTT: Money.

COSTELLO: Money comes with my computer?

ABBOTT: Yes. No extra charge.

COSTELLO: I get a bundle of MONEY with my computer? How much?

ABBOTT: One copy.

COSTELLO: Isn't it illegal to copy money?

ABBOTT: Microsoft gave us a license to copy money.

COSTELLO: They can give you a license to copy money?

ABBOTT: Why not? THEY OWN IT!

(A FEW DAYS LATER ...)

ABBOTT: Super Duper computer store. Can I help you?

COSTELLO: How do I turn my computer off?

ABBOTT: Click on "START"...

***************************************

OH! OH!!! here's one...(John, I had to hunt this one down from among the MANY that I received this past election season here in the "Un-tied" States...so this one's for you...Cheers!)

********************************************************************

President Bush was visiting a primary school and he visited one of the

classes. They were in the middle of a discussion related to words and

their meanings. The teacher asked the President if he would like to lead

the discussion on the word "tragedy". So the illustrious leader asked

the class for an example of a "tragedy".

One little boy stood up and offered: "If my best friend, who lives

on a farm, is playing in the field and a tractor runs over him and kills

him, that would be a tragedy."

"No," said Bush, "that would be an accident."

A little girl raised her hand: "If a school bus carrying 50 children

drove over a cliff, killing everyone inside, that would be a tragedy."

"I'm afraid not," explained the president. "That's what we would called a

great loss." The room went silent. No other children volunteered. Bush

searched the room. "Isn't there someone here who can give me an example

of a tragedy?"

Finally at the back of the room a small boy raised his hand. In a quiet

voice he said: "If Air Force One carrying you and Mrs. Bush was struck

by a "friendly fire" missile and blown to smithereens, that would be a

tragedy."

"Fantastic!" exclaimed Bush. "That's right. And can you tell me why

that would be a tragedy?"

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

"Well," says the boy, "It has to be a tragedy, because it sure as heck

wouldn't be a great loss and it probably wouldn't be an accident

either.

Great jokes, folks!

No More Sham Elections

By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Published: November 20, 2004

NYTimes Articles

One month ago today, I replied to this topic; let's see how MY ideas compare with those with "brighter lights than mine..." - As I had previously stated, I had a three-pronged plan for the elections here in the States:

IF nothing ELSE was proved over the past two years of CAMPAIGNING (yes, folks, it truly was TWO years, not merely ONE "official" year, as in times past...!) and the past three years of this globally unpopular "war on terror," these things have NOW been proven to be necessary - AND, I suggest that we ACT, while the pain is still fresh in the minds of everyone who was disappointed and/or DISGUSTED by the (ahem!) Presidential Election, we need to institute measures, immediately - if not sooner - to:

[1]Eliminate the "electoral college" and make "one person = one vote" a reality. Believe it or not, folks, we DO have the technology...we even have printing presses, and pens, and pencils!

[2]Completely REFORM the currently bastardized "system of checks and balances" --TAKE IT BACK to the original meaning that the Founding Father's had in mind when they devised and instituted the concept -- "The Executive is separate from the Legislative, is separate from the Judicial." (jeez, does NO ONE remember High School Civics, Government or American History class?) in order to eliminate the "in-bed-togetherness" currently so rampant among the three branches of government.

[3]We also need to run the government as a BUSINESS, with TRANSPARENCY, strict ACCOUNTABILITY, and SEVERE PENALTIES instituted and enforced upon anyone in any position of our Government who violates any Fiscal, Ethical, and Administrative boundaries in their official capacity. YOU DON'T WRITE THE CHECKS IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE MONEY IN YOUR ACCOUNT!!! If that axiom holds true for individuals and for businesses, should it not apply MORE SO to the collective "running of this country?"

These three items would be ENOUGH to for us accomplish, even as a "starting point," and they would be enough to make effective, long-term changes, in and of themselves, it seems to me.

These were a few of my ideas - now I know I am not the "...brightest bulb in the marquee," but here's what someone ELSE had to say in a NYTimes article this very day:

So what's the cure for our electoral diseases? Here are three ideas:

Have nonpartisan experts draw up boundaries for Congressional districts after each census. Both Republicans and Democrats have shamelessly drawn boundaries to serve their own needs, and that's one reason Congressional races are so uncompetitive. Normally, state legislatures do the redistricting, but Iowa and Arizona have handed the responsibility over to independent commissions.

Eliminate the Electoral College so that the president is chosen by popular vote. This was seriously discussed as a constitutional amendment after the 1968 election, when George Wallace's third-party candidacy could have prevented Richard Nixon from receiving a majority of the electoral vote. And in this election, if just 21,000 voters had changed their votes in Nevada, New Mexico and Iowa, the electoral vote would have been tied and the choice of the president would have gone to the House.

"We don't run elections well enough to have clear winners that we all accept if it's really close," said Rob Richie, executive director of the Center for Voting and Democracy. "I think if the winning side had been ahead by only 20,000 votes in Ohio, the losing side wouldn't have accepted it."

It's time for America to develop the kind of full-fledged popular-vote democracy that is enjoyed by, say, the good people of Afghanistan.

Funnel campaign donations through a blind trust. The funkiest idea in politics is to make donations anonymous even to the recipient. Citizens would make contributions through a blind trust, so that candidates wouldn't know to whom they were beholden.

If officials don't know who their major contributors are, they can't invite them to spend the night in the Lincoln Bedroom or write tax loopholes. A donor might boast about having made a contribution, but special interests will realize they can save money by telling politicians that they have donated when they haven't, and then politicians will doubt these boasts.

Such a system of shielding names of donors exists in 10 states, to some degree, for judicial candidates. A provocative book by Bruce Ackerman and Ian Ayres, "Voting With Dollars," makes an excellent case that the system be applied more broadly, but we need some innovative state (Oregon, do you hear that?) to take the leap.

Chile is a nice role model. While the U.S. was finishing campaigns that were another embarrassing roll in the hay for politicians and lobbyists, Chile was holding its first elections using a new law with a blind trust for campaign donations of more than $500. Patricio Navia, a Chilean elections specialist at New York University, says the system has loopholes but is a big improvement.

"It's a clever idea," he said. "It's a promising way of separating special interests and politicians."

Our nation's founders were forthright and creative in establishing our political system. Today we need to be just as forthright in recognizing that the system is often dysfunctional - and just as creative in fixing it. If we're willing to introduce vigorous, competitive democracies in Iraq, why not do the same at home?

(The BOLDED statements are my own emphasis.) This was submitted by Mr. Nicholas D. Kristof and printed by The Times this morning...

Not that I have EVER been one who sits around and waits for others to "agree with my ideas" - I would like to think that I do have enough awareness of the generalities (and the "dysfunctions) of the American Political Process, to not only CRITICIZE the ineptitude of the system, but to offer suggestions (based in REALITY) about exactly what to do about it.

It's nice to see that someone else has confirmed the approach I postulated and has independently drawn similar conclusions about "how to FIX it." They say that great minds think alike - I might add the corrollary that "It sometimes it takes the other great minds a little while to get up to speed...!" LOL

CHEERS!

IN the long line of historical figures who have emerged as GREAT leaders of the U.S.A. - George W. Bush's "2000-2004 dog-and-pony show" has NOT shown him to be a "great leader!" His subsequent re-election (!?) will hopefully, after this NEXT four years, recede into the annals of history, much the same as a pimple on one's backside will "eventually heal"...and, again, hopefully, this healing will not leave too large OR irreparable scars on the "behind" of World and American history.

As I see it, "We, the American People," need to institute a complete overhaul of our political processes and the methods by which the "government" is MORE accountable TO "THE PEOPLE." OUR POCKETS are the ones being picked in order to support "causes" which have been proven CLEARLY to DIVIDE us, rather than to cause us to stand UNITED...(go figger!)

IF nothing ELSE was proved over the past two years of CAMPAIGNING (yes, folks, it truly was TWO years, not merely ONE "official" year, as in times past...!) and the past three years of this globally unpopular "war on terror," these things have NOW been proven to be necessary - AND, I suggest that we ACT, while the pain is still fresh in the minds of everyone who was disappointed and/or DISGUSTED by the (ahem!) Presidential Election, we need to institute measures, immediately - if not sooner - to:

• [1]Eliminate the "electoral college" and make "one person = one vote" a reality. Believe it or not, folks, we DO have the technology...we even have printing presses, and pens, and pencils!
  [2]Completely REFORM the currently bastardized "system of checks and balances" --TAKE IT BACK to the original meaning that the Founding Father's had in mind when they devised and instituted the concept -- "The Executive is separate from the Legislative, is separate from the Judicial." (jeez, does NO ONE remember High School Civics, Government or American History class?) in order to eliminate the "in-bed-togetherness" currently so rampant among the three branches of government.
  [3]We also need to run the government as a BUSINESS, with TRANSPARENCY, strict ACCOUNTABILITY, and SEVERE PENALTIES instituted and enforced upon anyone in any position of our Government who violates any Fiscal, Ethical, and Administrative boundaries in their official capacity. YOU DON'T WRITE THE CHECKS IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE MONEY IN YOUR ACCOUNT!!! If that axiom holds true for individuals and for businesses, should it not apply MORE SO to the collective "running of this country?"
  

These three items would be ENOUGH to for us accomplish, even as a "starting point," and they would be enough to make effective, long-term changes, in and of themselves, it seems to me.

I did NOT vote for "g-bubba" EITHER TIME - in my opinion, he's a mealy-mouthed, smarmy, smirking, little pip-squeak whose perception of his "abilities" and "powers" are so self-aggrandized that he cannot see himself for what he REALLY is: ineffectual, NON-diplomatic, war-mongering, and "drunk-on-his-own-power, and is only in his position by "virtue (!?)" of pandering to special interest groups, lobbies and personal friends in BIG BUSINESS - via his previous business experience (consider, please, that they went bankrupt!), AND through his FATHER'S political influence with the same businesses and lobbies.

He WAS NOT elected this time by popular vote (he won via the "electoral college" vote); nor did he win, as with the first time he was elected (which SHOULD have been the last!), by rigging an election in his brother's State of Florida and subsequent appointment by the Supreme Court.

It is my hope that the average person in any country OTHER than the US, will realize that our system of government has gotten way out of hand, as evidenced by these past four years under the policies of the megalomaniacal "g-bubba."

It is also my hope that after the NEXT four years are over, we can go back to being friends; so IN ADVANCE, I'll say "I'm sorry" on behalf of our country, if you WON'T say "I told ya so!" - the average American Citizen did NOT have any control over these past four years, and I can well guarantee, that short of a SECOND American Revolution, we, the people, will have no control over the next four years, either.

Again, those who do not LEARN from history are condemned to repeat it...REAP, eat it....enjoy!

What has been going on is shown in the next question.          Was the US right or wrong in invading Iraq?          The following percentage said yes:

Israel (68), Russia (39), Canada (24), France (18), Japan (16), Spain (13), South Korea (11), Mexico (10).

Hi John,

As I was reading this post, I found this part to be a bit confusing [the bolded text above], in that there isn't a way for it to be 'answered' "yes" - if it's an either/or proposition, which part of the question was answered...the "right'"or the "wrong"?

(Perhaps I'm nit-picking the syntax of the questioners, but the premise of the question didn't seem logical to me: the US invasion of Iraq cannot BE both right and wrong...hence, the answer YES isn't telling ME anything, other than YES the US was right and YES the US was wrong, BUT perhaps that was the intent of the "questioners....?")

There is an old saying, perhaps you have heard it:

"If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with B.S."

I believe that what you've pointed out is perfectly valid - that those who disagree with Bush's policies are often dismissed as anti-American (besides, who's WHO to call a "Brit" anti-American, for cryin' out loud? They need to "step-off!").

As a matter of fact, we are sick and tired of Bush's outright, bald-faced lies and his overestimation of his own level of personal intelligence. And this does not even take into consideration the FACT that "We, the People" did not ELECT him!

He was appointed and approved by the Supreme Court!

IMO, it was an internally "rigged election" and it is my belief that he is a "marionette" for those far darker and "unseen" forces that have been busy enacting their own agendas behind the scenes in Washington D.C. for DECADES.

Politically, his tenure as president has seemingly shown to have the most disastrous of consequences for the American people, US Foreign policy, and for the entire gamut of global interaction, from the subtle to the not-so-subtle international ramifications.

(...and I am the first to acknowledge that I am NOT the brightest bulb on the marquee, but if I can see it, how can others - aside from "us" - NOT see it?)

I believe, also, that the consequences of HIS hyper-aggressive actions will ring down the corridor of history - with decades of effort required on the part(s) of his successors to undo the damage to the "image of Americans" world wide.

It is also not merely attributable to my own attitude of not giving him any credit for his TERM (note, please, the usage of the singular!)in office: it is NOT that I am unwilling to give him credit for doing anything positive - but, if anyone can tell me what THAT may BE, I'd sure like to know!

My view of this "Reign of (the new) Mad 'King George' " is that he needs to be "deposed" - he's drunk with power, and he's been effectively manipulated by his 'handlers', in that he is a politically ignorant, intra-culturally retarded little man - all he's done is stir up the "pot" and make a fine mess of things around the world - "father and son, incorporated" - working hand-in-hand with the Military-Industrial Corporate Giants and powerful lobbies which have vested interests in the financial profit to be wrung from the continuation of this little skirmish in Iraq.

Is it time for the Second American Revolution? 100% of ME says YES!

{As a footnote, I, too, admire greatly the persons you listed in your post - might I add Ms. Rosa Parks and, even though these two are not Americans: Dr. Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Ghandi?}

JD (An American in...)

I would like to jump in here with a bit of "fiction" that was written by Tom Clancy a few years ago - 'The Dragon and The Bear' - within the pages of this tome are some very surprising 'prophecies' which have become all too real in more recent years.

Aside: Mr. Clancy's "finger on the pulse" has been telling us for years that there is more to the "wars" (in Iraq and Iran) than meets the eye - give this book a read if you can handle more than the 'faux' News soundbites and really dig into a puzzle.

There is gold and oil in Russia - and we - the U.S., now being their 'friends' (i.e.: exploiters, as we are EVERYWHERE when there's an Almighty Dollar to be had!) are attempting to help the Russians gain ground in order to get their oils reserves out of the ground and on to the world market - transparent motives, indeed.

If we can conduct our little skirmish in Iraq and gain (i.e.: STEAL) the ground from the oil fields to the Caspian Sea and to the Gulf in order to help them build the pipelines they need - we, being their FRIENDS (!) will no doubt take full advantage of the availability of the neweslt oil "glut" on the world market.

Give that book a read and tell me that you don't see some very "prophetic" truths now unfolding....my views may seem simplistic in light of the very real problems in this world - but there IS something within those pages which resonates with US foreign policy and with the current events.

Jewels

WOW!

What a great topic - who would have thought...(John, thank you!) This forced me to go way back in the dim dark recesses of my mind and to remember just where the literary influences upon myself and others, where our ability to question and learn comes from. There are a number of novels which influenced me - and my subsequent literary selections...

One of the most influential pieces of literature in my life was the New Testament - when I was 8, I read the parables - and understood them; these have been an important guiding light in my life; opposition to greed, kindness toward others, the ability to know goodness, and to be able to distinguish it from the seeming evil-ness on the face of this planet.

When I was 11, I read "Johnny Tremaine" by Esther Forbes and it was required reading for my 6th grade (upper elementary) English Class, otherwise, I might never have come across the book. It was highly influential in that the hero, Johnny Tremaine had burned his hand in a silver-smithing accident (molten silver) and I identified with this aspect, since I had burned both of my hands when I was 10 months of age, when learning to walk - holding myself up by grabbing on to various objects for balance - I grabbed onto a pot-bellied stove.

This book was about the American Revolution, (Paul Revere was the silversmith to whom Johnny was apprenticed), the Boston Tea Party, the famous (or IN-famous, depending upon which side of "the pond" you were on!) "Midnight Ride" of Paul Revere, and the battle at Lexington-Concord - it ultimately led to my reading of Irving Stone's book: "Those Who Love" - about John and Abigail Adams and their roles in the American Revolution, John Adams subsequent Presidency, at around the age of 15.

Thus having read one of Irving Stone's novels - and discovering that he exhaustively researches his subjects, I subsequently read "The Agony and The Ecstasy" - his excellent novel about Michelangelo - which I now read about once a year - and would highly recommend for Art Students. It places Michelangelo in perspective, his "place" in the Renaissance occuring in Italy, as the "ward" of, and apprentice to, Lorenzo De Medici's sculpture garden; his battles to be left alone to WORK, to "sculpt," while the political machinations of the various and 'warring' popes, claimed his time, successively, and each one seemed to do their utmost to thwart Michaelangelo's gifts.

When in high school - I took an elective (alternate selection) in my English Class and read D.H. Lawrence's "Sons and Lovers" - and became fascinated with the "working class" and societal compartmentalization in Great Britain - the differences in the classes and their ways of life. I subsequently read Catherine Cookson's "The Fifteen Streets" and Lady Antonia Frazier's "Mary, Queen of Scots."

Widely differing histories and points of view, to be sure - but then, reconciling the diametric opposites in societies seems to require that someone read from a wide variety of sources...any additional suggestions, folks?

In 1974 - we were in the 10 year countdown (so to speak) toward "1984" (Orwell) and I read that book - back to back with Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World' - talk about apocalyptic and bleak visions! I have since read these two books every 10 years (1974, 1984, 1994 and 2004) - the more I see - with more and more life experience under my belt each time, leads me to the inescapable conclusion that we're there....

(All this...as I sit at my "confuser" with the "telescreen" and stereo on - awaiting the "election" here in the States, listening to the "Ministry of Truth", and its adverts for the elections...fortunately, no one is barking orders to exercise harder: "SMITH! Put some life into it...!" LOL) (I think I need a "soma"...)

For an escape from this and to remind myself that my life isn't nearly as "hard" as I sometimes believe it is, I read Colleen McCollough's "The Thorn Birds" about once a year, usually in the spring. This ultimately lead to my reading of her Roman series about Gaius, Julius Caesar, et al, satisfying a long-standing curiosity about the Roman Empire, and its ongoing influences to date...

So, now having cleared out the cobwebs...I'm going back to my series about Merlin, King Arthur and Mordred - by Mary Stewart..."The Crystal Cave," "The Hollow Hills," "The Last Enchantment" and "The Wicked Day."

Thanks again John, for the great topic suggestion...and to all of you for sharing YOUR "books" - you've given me some new avenues to explore!

Cheers, mates!

I'm not sure whether this link will prove useful in providing an answer to your student's question, Andy, but this is a site I found when I input the search key-words - parameters: "Ex-slaves prominent in Westward Expansion"

BTW: That is a very astute question posed by your student - I wish them much luck in finding the answer/s (hopefully plural!)...

http://www.toptags.com/aama/books/book18.htm - a site dedicated to Black History

Search Engines are great - but you have to tell it exactly what you are looking for...

A subcategory: The Buffalo Soldiers - perhaps their names are listed somewhere else on the 'net - another avenue of research for your student.

http://www.toptags.com/aama/bio/groups/buff.htm

Historical personages are not separate FROM their times...perhaps some of the Buffalo Soldiers (no names listed within this page) would be worthy of further inquiries to determine what happened to them AFTER the Civil War...whether they went West and settled the Territories during the Expansion.

I hope this helps or at least provides a "compass bearing" for your student.

** Found a listing of Congressional Medal of Honor recipients - perhaps this list of Buffalo Soldier's names may be of help:

http://www.imh.org/imh/buf/buf5.html

Hello to all,

Rowena, way to go! I understand what you've said here and I appreciate your views, I applaud you for them. Who says that being "intelligent" and making a decision such as yours is "selfish?" - I, for one, do not.

(I am glad, however, that I "felt the need" to replicate - and that I did so - my daughter has brought much joy into my life; she's of the opinion which you hold, for some of the same reasons - the world is already overpopulated, her and her new husband do not wish to compromise their lifestyle, etc.). I've replaced my "self" - provided for the future - and feel no need to apologize, either.

My philosophy (when I was younger and more naive) was that "I" wasn't going to be a burden upon the system - particularly after I kicked her dad to the curb/kerb. I wasn't going to have a passel of brats, by however many different fathers, in order to obtain MORE money from the "state" (i.e: the welfare system). I used the system for what is was designed to do - it provided a short-term resource for long-term gains.

I was operating under the philosophy that you should never have more children than you can personally carry in a nuclear holocaust (!) - humorous, yes; extremist, yes; yet very effective. That's my soapbox....

John, I feel that you might have mis-read what I wrote - my whole point in my post (above) was that there IS a welfare state in America - in addition to the disintegration of the family and traditional values - by which the politicians justify increasing taxes, and by which it tends to perpetuate its "democratic" voting bloc by freely handing out all the monies that it takes from the average working American, to give to the "poor" via welfare, AFDC, and such programs.

Well, of course those recipients are more than happy to take the money if the only "price" they have to "pay" is to go to the polls and re-elect the same people which GAVE them the money.

That's why I stated that there ARE third and fourth generation "welfare families" - and don't you folks believe for one minute that there AREN'T...(I do believe that there's a "handbook" somewhere - or perhaps an inter-cultural oral history of "how to 'work the system' " - passed down through those same welfare families - "FREE MONEY??" - Oh, HECK yeah!)

Don't penalize those who DO attempt to use the system as a short-term resource -give them a three year plan, with the following list of "RULES:"

• 1. NO MORE CHILDREN - you do NOT have any more kids while we're (i.e: the welfare program) paying you!
  
• 2. Provide the financial resources AND the economic education to inspire these folks to get off (and STAY OFF) of the welfare programs.
  
• 3. Pay for the training programs, living expenses, childcare, foodstamps, etc. - with the understanding that these "perpetual welfare mothers" will not receive another DIME of public monies after the three years: the "sink or swim" solution...!
  
• 4. Provide financial penalities for irresponsibly having more children while on the government programs. Primarily this would mean that "we" would cut their monthly benefits in HALF, if they have ONE additional child, and in half again if they have still another.
  

If they think it is hard to live on x amount of dollars per month, and their benefits are cut in half, and then in half AGAIN, IF they continue to "breed," I do believe that they would think twice about doing so.

I do believe that some of the problems with the welfare system in the US would be solved in very few years, relatively speaking.

This would turn THEM into members of the "taxpayer base," and you can be sure that they then would support such a program as I've outlined here, since they would have come through this hypothetical program, and would have used it for what it SHOULD be used for: as a short term "resource" to provide a long-term solution to an increasing problem in this country.

"...You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.  I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will live as one."  John Lennon - IMAGINE

If you cannot succeed in a school environment you might want to make a virtue of necessity and make "getting more detentions than anyone else" or "doing as little work as poss" or "being bottom of the class" your aim in life.

The constant testing, practising for tests, rehearsing tests....in short the things the government think education is all about....could be a factor here.

Pupils who are working together (for example on a media studies project) often seem less interested in "being the worst" because that would mean letting the other members of the group down.

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Excellent point, Derek!

Having just watched Michael Moore's film "Bowling for Columbine," and having seen his production of "Fahrenheit 9-11" in the theater last month, where it was, I admit, extremely hard to resist throwing handfuls of popcorn at the screen every time Geo. W. Bush came onto it! (Fortunately for me, with my tendency toward making the snide comment, I was sitting with a group of like-minded individuals, making their OWN comments!) You could almost "hear" the "BIG EYE ROLLS..."

I will step out on faith here and make a prediction that, upon it's US DVD release (October 5th 2004), this movie [F9-11] will be a great "cult film" akin to "The Rocky Horror Picture Show." Some of the trivia questions about it could be: how many times does George W. Bush state "I am the WAR President" ?

I must say that "BFC" made similar points to the one you make here...that being the one about the students who "might as well be the worst, since I [they] can't be the best..." One youth in this movie was a little upset that he wasn't the NUMBER ONE kid on the list of suspects, the ones who the authorities would look for in a school violence investigation...can you imagine that?

Please give these two movies a viewing - I believe that you will find them informative as well as entertaining.

In these two films, I believe that you will see that the Average American has NO respect for Bush OR his "Good Ol' Boy" cadre of cronies - we are sick of being lied to, and also of being subjected to the media's constant barrage of "terror" - designed primarily to cause Americans to HATE foreigners and inciting other country's to HATE the U.S. by the actions of the few in power - but, if you think it is EASY to effect change in this country with its inbred and embedded "shadow government" - you would have to re-think that position after watching these two movies...

I might add that I was one of MY teachers' WORST nightmares, in that I questioned everything they were attempting to "indoctrinate" me with - I still question - I still wonder - our public school system could NOT "grind" those qualities out of me...I wasn't popular, but I didn't aspire to BE popular! I aspired to LEARN, and learning - if it is to be effective - involves questioning and wondering.

I recently came upon a mother's story about her son, who died in the Iraq war.

I am providing the link to her story here, in the hopes that people around the world will see just one aspect of the horrible mistakes that Geo. W. Bush has made while holding the White House office as the U.S. Commander " & Thief."

I am disgusted at the way the American People blithely accept the "offering du jour" touted as "news" by the American network news services - I personally do NOT watch American news - I have hated it for years, since I was subjected to the nightly barrage of dis-information from the "DMZ - Viet Nam" (by Peter Jennings, fully costumed in helmet and flak jacket), since the mid-to-late 1960's...

Please NOTE: the American television news networks are ALL slanted, biased and largely occupy a position of disseminating DIS-INFORMATION - primarily because of what they are TOLD they CAN inform the American viewing public about - or the "spin" that the Government officials "spoon feed to them."

Here's an article I found through an independent news source, which I felt compelled to share with people around the world - the Education Forum seemed to me to be the most likely site - since I know that this site is "global" and have e-mailed and chatted with a number of members here.

Since you may have heard that our "illustrious" (NOT!) President threw the mother of ONE dead American soldier in jail, because she was asking WHY her son had DIED in Iraq (at a protest staged where Bush was campaigning) she wanted an answer...I do not know if it was THIS particular lady, but it "could have been..."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04262/381101.stm

Feel free to let me know what your thoughts may be about this story.

Thank you, Jean, for your kind note...

I really didn't mean to go off on a tangent, but it seems that so many people here in the US are just grubbing for the "almighty dollar" without thought or care about the future..I was attempting to relate what Martin had said to actual real life experience here in the States for the past 40 years.

As I became "conscious" at a very early age - I have watched what's been going on (I tell people that I am an avowed "conspiracy theorist") and I don't believe 99.99% of ANYTHING that our "government" tells us - why? Because they've been BUSTED in so many lies, when we all know the evenutally the "truth will out!"

I came to the Education Forum, primarily to do research on the JFK assassination - that's the conspiracy theorist coming out in me...and I have found a LOT of useful information here, not merely about JFK - this site has been an entertaining and valuable source of infomation, as well as setting forth topics for consideration, such as this one.

Thank you for your note - I wish you all the best - my daughter has married a guy with a double BS - Electrical Engineering and Electronics Engineering - so they should not have money problems - I would still like to build up assets "other than in the USA" in order to leave them "something, ANYTHING!" that will be untouchable by the US government - that is my primary concern and my goal at the tender age of 46. In February 2004, I was "downsized" out of an Executive Assistant position with the 6th largest financial institution in the US, and I am extremely jaded about Corporate America. I have decided to step out on faith and put my skills and abilities to work for MYSELF - I've made two of my former small-business employers into millionaires...I believe that I can do that for myself!

Julie Ditolla

Martin

Can I quote you? I think your article is a brilliant summary of modern life.

Julie

You'll notice from the bit under my picture that I'm from the smallest state in Australia and Martin is from thr UK. We are about to have a federal election here and there isa growing split between many Australians - those who support our present PM who is a sycophant of Bush and who is taking us down the road of becoming a miniature US (eg wars against terrorists and free trade agreements with the US which will destroy many of our industries) and those who want us to follow a different path and become a nation with our own beliefs and attitudes. We are inundated with US news, TV and movies and I have to admit I am not at all pro-US and your posting confirms many of my beliefs about that.

However, the UK seems to be also going down the same path and I too don't know how you turn it round. Martin seems to be fairly pessimistic about the possibilities.

On another tack about modern families - because of the high rate of divorce, there appears to be a growing trend to compensate for the guilt caused by serial monogamy and multiple family structures, by overindulging and constant "rescuing"  of the children of such relationships. I see so many divorced parents who seem unable to apply any rules, structure or consistency to their children, in case they lose their relationship with them, or because they appear to believe it will assuage their guilt, buy love, respect and appreciation (the market philosophy again?)

These children take and take everything offered to them with no qualms or conscience and grow up into selfish adults who have no respect whatever for the misguided parent who bought them off on every occasion. They are protected from every risk, rescued from every mistake they make, showered with whatever money can buy, competed for by the other parent, and develop the attitude that whatever they do, however they conduct their lives, someone will always be there to save and rescue them. This is another aspect of the "me" generation.

I have a great deal of repect for my partner for everything else, except this - he has four sons from a previous marriage which ended up very messily. Since they were young teenagers, when the marriage ended, he has allowed them to drain him of money for the last 25 years. They are now adult men and still suck money out of him with no guilt whatsoever. They seem incapable of sustaining relationships and every time they get into trouble which is often, their father rescues them over and over, with the result that now in his late 60s, on a very good salary all his life, he has no assets, no savings and little supperannuation. It is impossible to discuss it with him as he becomes intensely defensive and will not allow he has made any errors at all. I give him as an example, but I saw it all the time while I was teaching secondary school. Also, the same sort of "indulgent" childrearing methods often seem to apply to very well-off parents who have their children very late in life.

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I would have to agree with both Martin and Jean - not being certain of where you are located, I'll jump in with letting you know that I am in Seattle, WA USA.

I would have to question as to "where to begin" this new society which embraces a reinstitution of "intimacy and family relationship development."

When I was growing up, in the late '60's and early-mid '70's, my parents' mantra was: "I can hardly wait until you kids turn 18 and leave home" - did anyone else experience this phenomenon? And I have to ask myself "why" was this their mantra - we were well behaved, and being the oldest of four children, I took care of the younger kids; my parents took in foster children and they didn't say THAT to THEM (to MY knowledge)...they thought and felt that they were doing something "good" (in who's book?) by providing a home for these kids - when they couldn't adequately provide emotional support for their OWN children. We had the bare minimum of physical needs provided.

I can fully attest to the trend toward the selfishness of the parents - they had clothes, beer, all the little "fun things" that THEY wanted, but in order for ME to receive the fee for school pictures or any number of the hundreds of little things which SHOULD have been provided by my parents without reservation or hesitation, it was ALWAYS a fight!

Even I, as the eldest girl, had to wear hand-me-down's from my grandmother's friends' kids and grandkids! When I was 12, I began babysitting for a very nice couple and watching their two children - we played games (NOT video), I helped THEIR oldest son learn to read, and we would go for walks and hikes...science discovery at its finest...as I would point out to these kids some of the things I had learned in MY science classes! I saved half of the money earned by babysitting and began to buy my OWN clothing for school and church, since the hand-me-down clothing I was receiving through my grandmother was NOT of the then current fashion (not by a LONG shot)!

So I can attest to the "me" generation's "selfishness" from personal experience- I would like to be able to say that I didn't repeat the "mistakes" which I felt my parents made, however, I cannot.

I raised my daughter completely on my own - with NO financial support from her father, whatsoever. Thus, I ended up working long hours, to pay for childcare AND my post high-school education...I recall that I barely even saw my daughter the year that she was three. She was completely in the hands of the daycare providers and the two neighbor girls who picked her up and babysat her after the daycare closed for the day. This is my only regret...

In the 17 years which my daughter was with me, we established a very workable relationship - she was very responsible at an early age, simply because there was no other choice. I am letting this forum know these things, not as an emotional catharsis, but in order to clarify the points that Martin made here and that Jean has confirmed - that "that's the way it IS...."

But I highly desire change - not for change's sake itself, but rather a return to the nurturing of our children, to show them these traditional values and letting them choose to embrace the "old ways" by CHOICE and NOT by chance.

I personally do not watch commercial television, but am "hooked" on Netflix...in this way I can view movies on a wider (and more controversial) range of subjects -documentaries about things like "WACO: The Rules of Engagement" (about the ATF/FBI-Branch Davidian 51 day stand-off, which culminated in OUR GOVERNMENT killing innocent women, children and the elderly, along with David Koresh, on April 19, 1993) - OH, but "our government" doesn't "lie" about what it did in that situation...yeah, RIGHT!

It lies all the time about EVERYTHING in order to BOTH perpetuate itself AND to justify its "long-armed" incessant reach into our pockets, and I believe that this is simply because the average American is an "ostrich" - poking it's collective head in the sand - well, when your head is in the sand, folks, guess what is still exposed and vulnerable???

I seceded from this "union"...I will NOT play their games and I will not support a government which deliberately lies to its people and then begs for MORE money to "reward" those who do not produce. It the 17 years of raising my daughter, I received "AFDC" (our welfare program) for exactly 6 month's while attending a technical training school - AND, since I DID work, in addition to going to school, they TOOK OUT THE MONETARY equivalent of my "earnings" from my foodstamps and "monthly check" - HOW STUPID IS THAT????? It basically rewards those who -WHILE on Welfare - see fit to have another kid each year, in order to "get their raise" - burdening an already OVERBURDENED system even more. And it is the system which provides incentive to these mothers to not even try to get out of their situation. In America, we have third - and even FOURTH - generation "welfare families" - WHY???

In consideration of the current situation within "our" American system - the Government will pay incoming "refugees" a lump sum total payment (I've heard figures as high as $50,000.00 [uS]) and tell them to buy a business (...is that why so many "foreigners" own the local convenience store franchises?); YET this same government, into which I have paid taxes for over 30 years (!) would NOT lift a finger to provide ME with the same benefits or opportunities - in fact, if you'll re-read the above, you'll see that I was penalized (financially) for even attempting to better my situation!

So I have developed online classes, and am taking the earnings OFFSHORE - I can attest to the fact that "going Global" DOES have its advantages - and it is my own keen assessment of the "system" which has prompted and guided my business decisions, and led me to do so...I have no interest in perpetuating this system of lies and cover-ups nor in supporting a government which "HELPS" incoming outsiders to the detriment of the people (such as myself) who have worked their butts off their whole lives and are not one whit better off...no thank you!

It has become almost an article of faith in our society that change is synonymous with progress. The present government has preached this message more than most, while it is a philosophy that most people seem to live by. It is nonsense, of course. Change has never always been good. And recent surveys indicating that we are less happy than we used to be suggest a profound malaise at the heart of western society and modern notions of progress.

The findings are not surprising. The very idea of what it means to be human - and the necessary conditions for human qualities to thrive - are being eroded. The reason we no longer feel as happy as we once did is that the intimacy on which our sense of well-being rests - a product of our closest, most intimate relationships, above all in the family - is in decline. In this context, three trends are profoundly changing the nature of our society. First, the rise of individualism, initially evident in the 1960s, has made self the dominant interest, the universal reference point and one's own needs as the ultimate justification of everything. We live in the age of selfishness.

Second, there has been the relentless spread of the market into every part of society. The marketisation of everything has made society, and each of us, more competitive. The logic of the market has now become universal, the ideology not just of neoliberals, but of us all, the criterion we use not just about our job or when shopping, but about our innermost selves, and our most intimate relationships. The prophets who announced the market revolution saw it in contestation with the state: in fact, it proved far more insidious than that, eroding the very notion of what it means to be human. The credo of self, inextricably entwined with the gospel of the market, has hijacked the fabric of our lives. We live in an ego-market society.

Third, there is the rise of communication technologies, notably mobile phones and the internet, which are contracting our private space, erasing our personal time and accelerating the pace of life. Of course, we remain deeply social animals. We enjoy many more relationships than we used to: cafe culture has become the symbol of our modern conviviality. But quantity does not mean quality. Our relationships may be more cosmopolitan but they are increasingly transient and ephemeral. Our social world has come to mirror and mimic the rhythms and characteristics of the market, contractual in nature. Meanwhile, the family - the site of virtually the only life-long relationships we enjoy - has become an ever-weaker institution: extended families are increasingly marginal, nuclear families are getting smaller and more short-lived, almost half of all marriages end in divorce, and most parents spend less time with their pre-school children.

The central site of intimacy is the family - as expressed in the relationship between partners, and between parents and children. Intimacy is a function of time and permanence. It rests on mutuality and unconditionality. It is rooted in trust. As such, it is the antithesis of the values engendered by the market.

Yet even our most intimate relationships are being corroded by the new dominant values. There is an increasingly powerful tendency to judge love and sex by the criteria of consumer society - in other words, novelty, variety and disposability. Serial monogamy is now our way of life. Sex has been accorded a status, as measured by the incidence of articles in newspapers, not to mention the avalanche of online porn, that elevates it above all other considerations. Unsurprisingly, love - which belongs in the realm of the soul and spirit rather than the body - becomes more elusive.

It is the deterioration in the parent-child relationship, though, that should detain us most. This, after all, is the cradle of all else, where we learn our sense of security, our identity and emotions, our ability to love and care, to speak and listen, to be human.

The parent-child, especially the mother-child, relationship stands in the sharpest contrast of all to the laws of the market. It is utterly unequal, and yet there is no expectation that the sacrifice entails or requires reciprocation. On the contrary, the only way a child can reciprocate is through the love they give, and the sacrifice they make, for their own children.

But this most precious of all human relationships is being amended and undermined. As women have been drawn into the labour market on the same scale as men, they are now subject to growing time-scarcity, with profound consequences for the family, and especially children. The birth rate has fallen to historic new lows. That most fundamental of human functions, reproduction, is beleaguered by the values of the ego-market society. Couples are increasingly reluctant to make the inevitable "sacrifices" - cut in income, loss of time, greater pressure - that parenthood involves.

Parents are now spending less time with their babies and toddlers. The effects are already evident in schools. In a study published by the government's Basic Skills Agency last year, teachers claim that half of all children now start school unable to speak audibly and be understood by others, to respond to simple instructions, recognise their own names or even count to five. In order to attend to our own needs, our children are neglected, our time substituted by paying for that of others, videos and computer games deployed as a means of distraction. And the problem applies across the class spectrum. So-called "money-rich, time-scarce" professionals are one of the most culpable groups. Time is the most important gift a parent can give a child, and time is what we are less and less prepared to forgo.

It is impossible to predict the precise consequences of this, but a growing loss of intimacy and a decline in emotional intelligence, not to mention a cornucopia of behavioural problems, are inevitable. Judging by this week's survey of the growing emotional problems of teenagers, they are already apparent. Such changes, moreover, are permanent and irrecoverable. A generation grows up knowing no different, bequeathing the same emotional assumptions to its offspring.

But it is not only in the context of the changing texture of human relationships that intimacy is in decline. We are also becoming less and less intimate with the human condition itself. The conventional wisdom is that the media has made us a more thoughtful and knowledgeable society. The problem is that what we learn from the media is less and less mediated by personal experience, by settled communities that provide us with the yardstick of reality, based on the accumulated knowledge of people whom we know and trust. Indeed, society has moved in precisely the opposite direction, towards an increasingly adolescent culture which denigrates age and experience. In the growing absence of real-life experience we have become prey to what can only be described as a voyeuristic relationship with the most fundamental experiences.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,...1307401,00.html

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Reccomended reading (if you can leave the telly off for awhile!)

I found this book to be extremely informative and useful; the arguments presented are sound and based in psychological principles that most people can understand.

The name of the book is:

"FOUR ARGUMENTS FOR THE ELIMINATION OF TELEVISION"

ISBN 0-688-03274-5 hdcvr

ISBN 0-688-08374-2 pbk

(75 copies available through Amazon.com)

The most important concept that I took away from this book is that..."NOTHING on television is 'REAL' and/or happening 'NOW'..."

There are time delays, editing, structuring (in keeping with the 'enhancing the drama' theme with today's so-called "reality shows") etc. If you are truly interested in the way that television "works", please read this book - I read it over 20 years ago, and I believe that it STILL guides MY TV viewing habits...at least I am an "informed consumer" of televesion's "product"...

I am the first person to admit that I am a product of the 'communication' age - radio, tv, etc. and I AM a "movie-holic" - but I acknowledge that these aren't 'real' by any stretch of the imagination...even documentaries and historical events get "spin" - one only has to google up "WTC", "9/11", "planes" and "Pentagon Strike", etc to find that - even as we watched it happen, we didn't see the REAL thing.

Enjoy...!

Let us not forget the 50 (+/-) kindergarten children which were killed by a 'madman' entering their school in Scotland - this was not too many years ago; I was attending the 50th Annual Highland Games in Enumclaw (near Seattle), Washington, USA - when they trooped the clans and read aloud the names of those who had died the previous year; when they read the many names and gave the ages: 5years old, and it went on and on - I thought (at first) "...WHOA, what a bad year to be a kid in Scotland...!" - then when the announcer was finished with THAT role-call - they brought to our rememberance the event that resulted in so may children being slaughtered....then, I shed my tears of sorrow....

Being a mother, I agree with the fact that the "mini-prop" news services DO play upon our sympathies for our own children' we then translate that to the tears and heartache of "relating" to the parents of these other children....

Children are children the whole world over...they should be loved, protected and nurtured, no matter where they live or WHAT their parents' belief system may happen to be!!

I am appalled at the deliberate targetting of children by these "terrorists" - (who's going to be around to pay taxes for THEIR social security program?) A bit of whimsy - in an otherwise deadly serious "game" - all for a piece of ground, a political "ideal" (if THAT'S an "ideal", NO THANKS!), or any other agenda...this madness must stop.

I've heard it said that it's "terror" when it happens to you - that it's HORROR when you watch it happen to others...and I am horrified at the thought of the deliberate targetting of children.

As teachers, we have a responsibility to educate these children in TRUE ideals - Beauty within, Truth throughout and Love toward all, and to NOT foment and foster hatred toward ANYONE, whatever their creed, color, religion, belief system OR difference in culture. It may take a generation or two to accomplish this goal, but I believe that THIS is why we are here and what we are here to do....

Niave? perhaps; Idealistic, maybe!! Radical...MOST DEFINITELY!

me, too Andy - if you could re-set mine too, so that I'm not receiving strings of fifty e-mails in my daily e-mail notification, I would sure appreciate it...!

Thanks so very much,

Julie Ditolla

Hi Linda -

I read Slatzer's book back in the late 80's - when he wrote about purportedly being married to MM for a very short time...

I would have to say that anyone interested in this subject should start with his book; it is interesting reading and helps one make a better-informed decision as to whether the whole "Rat Pack" (or various combinations thereof) might have been involved - since Frank Sinatra Sammy Davis Jr., Peter Lawford (core members of the "Rat Pack"), along with RFK and JFK - they all appeared to have ties together, whether "above-" or "below" board!

I haven't read the other book you mentioned, but will try to find it - as I am of the opinion that MORE information is better than LESS...

Jules

I would tend to agree with Ron, Wim - Does this help?

"VERBALLY" would pertain to ANYTHING heard by a person, spoken by another person to them, whether IN PERSON or over the telephone.

...while "ORALLY" would refer to the manner of the communication OF the subject...

((I'm not an English Major, and SOME would consider me "functionally illiterate" -since the English language contains tens of hundreds of thousands of words [perhaps running to the millions] and OF which I DO know ONLY around 20% (=250,000) of these words. It's a gift...!))

Still, there remain subtle - extremely subtle - BUT IMPORTANT nuances between the the grammatic/al and correct usage of words - those which may SEEM to mean the same thing - yet are very different.

And wherever possible, I personally prefer to LOOK someone in the eyes when speaking to them, since I'm am better able to gauge whether or not they might be using "weasel words" (WW's) - in other words, "tap-dancing" around a subject and not really communicating with one - politicians use these "WW"s all the time and one learns to "listen between the lines..." more to hear what they're NOT saying than what they ARE saying...

Jules

I would tend to agree with Ron, Wim - Does this help?

"VERBALLY" would pertain to ANYTHING heard by a person, spoken by another person to them, whether IN PERSON or over the telephone.

...while "ORALLY" would refer to the manner of the communication OF the subject...

((I'm not an English Major, and SOME would consider me "functionally illiterate" -since the English language contains tens of hundreds of thousands of words [perhaps running to the millions] and OF which I DO know ONLY around 20% (=250,000) of these words. It's a gift...!))

Still, there remain subtle - extremely subtle - BUT IMPORTANT nuances between the the grammatic/al and correct usage of words - those which may SEEM to mean the same thing - yet are very different.

And wherever possible, I personally prefer to LOOK someone in the eyes when speaking to them, since I'm am better able to gauge whether or not they might be using "weasel words" (WW's) - in other words, "tap-dancing" around a subject and not really communicating with one - politicians use these "WW"s all the time and one learns to "listen between the lines..." more to hear what they're NOT saying than what they ARE saying...

Jules

Hello to all,

I am not a 'bona fide' teacher, but rather a "chronic learner" and I came to this site to research the available information about the JFK assassination - the forum here is extremely useful for finding new information, rather than relying on the "propaganda" available here in the U.S. regarding this subject.

I am currently studying Philosophy; Comparative World Religions (I am an ordained minister in the Church of Spiritual Humanism - a school of thought which fosters and promotes the theory that ALL of mankind's spiritual problems can be solved through an increase of knowledge, as well as the use of the Scientific Method); Jungian psychology, specifically the "Synchronicity Principle" and "Synchronicity Quest" and how these two particular may be applied to the practical application of 'energy workings' - something most people refer to as "magick" - I am in the process of creating online classes through a host site in order to teach these principles, and provide people with the tools they need to "practice magick" successfully and with good intent for personal 'life improvement".

I will be glad to add the host site's URL to my biography as soon as the classes "go live" - I anticipate this happening on October 1st, 2004 - so, if you might be interested, please check back here then. The class is a series of 10 lessons and costs $50.00 - it will take the average learner about 6 to 8 weeks to complete the course, and once one lesson and its test are complete, the student will automatically receive the next lesson.

I do hope to hear from people who use THIS site - as my little JFK assassination project is something near and dear to my heart, and I am interested in what others think about the "folk-tales" which have grown immeasurably since that fateful day in Dallas.

Julie Ditolla