David Josephs

I've been away - The PMO was claimed to be found 3 different times. Harold Marks... as you mention Harry Holmes tells the story of finding it, from a STUB that was never produced from a page that would have looked like this: and down below the SS's report of their finding it in Kansas City. These are my attempts at understanding the circumstances.. with deep history for each area. Hope it helps to clarify some thinking and push you along your paths... DJ Part 1: The Klein's Rifle Appendix: Money Order Timeline Part 2: The Backyard Photos Part 3: The Pistol Part 4: The Mauser, the Carcano and the Lt. Day Rifle

@Tony Krome You make some very good points Tony - thanks. I'd like to add some more support to your theory. First - this is a close up of the Rifle DAY carries from the building and the rifle in evidence with the only photo of the caliber stamp in existence. There is no caliber stamp on the rifle DAY has. This compares an actual 7.35 stamped Argentine Mauser with the rifle in evidence Finally, and as you show in your graphic, the stamp for the 7.65/7.35 is on the top of the rifle barrel and would be covered by a mounted scope. The MAUSER concept actually originates from the fact that NO CLIP WAS FOUND and Mauser's use STRIPPER CLIPS which are discarded. No CLIP would eject before or after the last bullet is fired. What does the STAR witness say about the rifle he sees? And finally - a report out of William HARVEY's station in ROME which was conveniently hidden away. For those wanting to dive deeper I have a few articles at K&K as well as the 2019 CAPA presentational slides. And as one final nail in this coffin - this is the ITALIAN shipping manifest for that carton of 10 rifles which FELDSOTT bought. That says C 2 7 6 5 Not "6" as the third letter is obviously the "6". Between RIVA and RUPP, serial #'s were removed from rifles. Cummings company shipped a "2766" in their order of 40" FC rifles

One strong theory is that of the Ice Bullets discussed in the mid-70's. If (and I say IF) that bullet ricocheted up it is possible they are describing it in the first paragraph. Either case... this does constitute an additional bullet not in evidence - anywhere.

The FBI and SS basically gave it all away. See WCD298 and some of the work done with it: This little known WCD and the Dealey Plaza Model presented - offered with the below preface - was basically removed from existence and replaced with CE884's subterfuge. This is the FBI in a nutshell. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10699#relPageId=6 https://www.kennedysandking.com/content/warren-commission-document-wcd-298-how-the-bureau-made-a-fourth-shot-beyond-z-313-disappear https://www.kennedysandking.com/content/warren-commission-document-wcd-298-fbi-letter-from-director-of-20-jan-1964-with-visual-aides-brochure

As I posted... the WCR Exhibits itself destroyed the SBT in 1964-65. @Pat Speer nails it... How we are even talking about this 60 years down the line is what confuses me most. How much more proof is needed when the invetigating body offers the clear and simple evidence to show it was impossible.. LET ALONE the fact he never shot that rifle, nor was on the 6th floor when the shots were fired. The question itself allows for the possibility of another answer? This is no longer questioned - this is fact. The Silly Bullet Theory was stillborn.

FWIW, I found what PG did in his "revelation" disgusting and purely attention seeking. He was a few years younger than Ozzy and he reads to me as a disgruntled little man passed over by history. . It was clear that Oswald considered this man a friend - who knows him from the moment he returns to the US in June '62 up thru Thanksgiving which was an incredibly important day where we learn of Pic's understanding that he KNEW the man at Thanksgiving dinner was not his brother Lee. Mr. JENNER - All right. Exhibit No. 288, there is ill the lower left-hand corner, there is a reproduction of a service card and a reproduction, also, of a photograph with the head of a man. Do you recognize that? Mr. PIC - That looks to me approximately how Lee Oswald looked when I seen him Thanksgiving 1962. Mr. JENNER - Directing your attention to Exhibit, Commission Exhibit No. 289, do you recognize any of the servicemen shown in that picture as your brother Lee? Mr. PIC - No, sir; I do not recognize them. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=832 Mr. JENNER - Commission Exhibit No. 291, at the bottom of the page, there is a picture of a young man handing out a leaflet, and another man to the left of him who is reaching out for it. Do you recognize the young man handing out the leaflet? Mr. PIC - No, sir; I would be unable to recognize him. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=835 His father was part of the Marina translation mysteries and the White Russian community. (Background info below in Paul's testimonies) PAUL GREGORY's Father Peter in the glasses PAUL R. Gregory's statements in evidence: . This was from the FATHER Peter Paul Gregory.

H&L is John Armstrong's "Harvey and Lee" Don. A wealth of research

Not too sure if direction and what people say can be overly reliable given this. "87" was the man Dispatch ordered into Oak Cliff with Tippit, but it doesn't seem he followed any orders as he never was actually in that area. This is the only incident of the word "North" in the transcripts. This has no source and no reasoning for the reply to Nelson. fwiw

Did this a while back and think it correctly depicts the different people. FWIW

FBI looking for traces of OSWALD all thru Nov. None found and they buried these reports with coded names. (see bottom composite) ANY evidence he was done there would have been brought out, front and center, but they couldn't do that since he wasn't there... only the legend exists. On the other hand, we have to give some thought to the Davis/Oswald/Cobb/Hotel Luna connection. All we have is the word of those I wouldn't believe too easily: Davis and Cobb. On Sept 22 - from the Lafitte notebook - it says "OSWALD - MEX CITY GAUDET?" On Sept 27 there is a note about DAVIS and OSWALD at the LUNA. Hosty eh. Real fountain of reliable JFK assassination info is he? Couple things about that Larry. The documents related to ODUM showing Marge the MM photos - I believe suggest they were trying to find HIDELL as this CIA report mentions the FBI still not knowing who HIDELL was on the 23rd after meeting with them. The pdf below comes 4 days after 104-10013-10189 where CIA questions publishing the MM photo at all while mentioning "since Oswald mother has no copy of photos shown her..." This from ODUM is July 1964. 64-09-28 DISCUSSION RELATED TO ODUM SHOWING MRS OSWALD MYSTERY MAN PHOTOS CROPPED - TWICE - ONCE BEFORE 11-23 docid-32352812.pdf PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY STATE OF TEXAS, County of Dallas, ss : I, Bardwell D. Odum, having first been duly sworn, depose as follows: I am presently a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, U.S. Department of Justice, and have been employed in such a capacity since June 15, 1942. On November 23, 1963, while acting officially in my capacity as a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, I obtained a photograph of an unknown individual, furnished to the Federal Bureau of Investigation by the Central Intelligence Agency, and proceeded to the Executive Inn, a motel, at Dallas, Texas, where Marina Oswald was staying. In view of the source of this picture, and, in order to remove all background data which might possibly have disclosed the location where the picture was taken, I trimmed off the background. The straight cuts made were more quickly done than a complete trimming of the silhouette and I considered them as effective for the desired purpose. I desired to show this photograph to Marina Oswald in an attempt to identify the individual portrayed in the photograph and to determine if he was an associate of Lee Harvey Oswald. It was raining and almost dark. I went to the door of Marina Oswald's room and knocked, identifying myself. Marguerite Oswald opened the door slightly and, upon being informed that I wished to speak to Marina Oswald, told me that Marina Oswald was completely exhausted and could not be interviewed. Marguerite Oswald did not admit me to the motel room. I told her I desired to show a photograph to Marina Oswald, and Marguerite Oswald again said that Marina was completely exhausted and could not be interviewed due to that fact. I then showed Marguerite Oswald the photograph in question. She looked at it briefly and stated that she had never seen this individual. I then departed the Executive Inn. The conversation with Marguerite Oswald and the exhibition of the photograph took place while I was standing outside the door to the room and Marguerite Oswald was standing inside with the door slightly ajar. Attached hereto are two photographic copies of the front and back of a photograph.* I have examined these copies and they are exact copies of the photograph of the unknown individual which I showed to Mrs. Marguerite Oswald on November 23, 1963. Signed this 10th day of July 1964. (s) Bardwell D. Odum, BARDWELL D. ODUM. Hoover took the info he got from HOSTY from his I&NS contact JEFF WOOSLEY on Oct 18th and had SA PECK and others look for traces of OSWALD in MX as I think he knew Oswald wasn't there the minute he gets the 10/10 cable. Anyway, below are the summary reports of not only scores of assets but to the Gobernacion which their asset OCHOA oversees. OCHOA provides all the MX Oswald evidence. At the bottom is the file inventory for the FBI with those 5 reports highlighted. Oswald at the Cuban or Soviet compounds = Red Herring

Thanks for taking the time Mike... not many would do that. . More on DB at the bottom of the post. re: the Wallet(s)... Go on. Can you please define your "usual suspects" and "personal property". These are kind of vague and not what I asked, really. By the late afternoon - according to the evidence - of 11/22 certain members of the DPD and FBI were aware of an ID "found" on Oswald in the name HIDELL with a photo of Ozzie basically pasted on. SA Robert BARRETT being one of them, WESTBROOK, CROY and OWENS being others. Croy says "an unidentified man came up and gave me a wallet". Croy in turn gave it to WESTBROOK and HIDELL is born. IMO HILL was led by the WC lawyers to say the wallet in the car also had HIDELL ID: Mr. BELIN. Would the name Hidell mean anything? Alek Hidell? Mr. HILL. That would be similar. I couldn't say specifically that is what it was, because this was a conversation and I never did see it written down, but that sounds like the name that I heard. Mr. BELIN. Was this the first time you learned of the name? Mr. HILL. Yes; it was. It is much, much more likely that there was no wallet on Oswald - considering he left his main wallet in Irving - in the car as there is no evidence this wallet ever made it out of the police car. Yet as mentioned, you will not find a wallet in evidence as "found at the Tippit scene" and here is a photo of the items they claim come from the "Irving wallet". These are Oswald's reflecting correct dates and personal possessions... Again... FOUND IN IRVING and listed on the FBI B1 WCD345. If there was no wallet at the Tippit scene, then one must explain the crazy conflicts these wallets from different locations create. Oswald leaves what is the one and only item of evidence with his photo and the name HIDELL which connects the purchase of the Rifle and Pistol to his doorstep? And that explanation sits well with anyone? Wallet = Hidell = Oswald = Tippit murder. There is not a single other item of fabricated evidence which visually connects the man to the name... and it's the one and only item falling out of Oswald's clothing. ===== In your reading of Willis, is it that there is not enough evidence that he was there, or is there evidence he was somewhere else? Willis post: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/hmMsbPMYfSA?pli=1 How? Poe testified that Benavides had told him that [the gunman] "was running out across this lawn. He was unloading his pistol as he ran." (v7p68) Hill echoed Poe re this :"running" and "unloading" in his own testimony. But Benavides, in a little-remarked portion of his WC testimony, contradicted Poe: Belin: "When the officers came out there, did you tell them what you had seen?" Benavides: "No, sir." Belin: "What did you do?" Benavides: "I left right after." (v6p451) According to Benavides, then, he did NOT tell Poe that he saw anyone running or unloading. Where, then, did Poe get his information? Why would he, as it seems, have made up such a story? The better, apparently, to buttress the official story re a man with a revolver.. But Poe's inventions actually tend to undercut the official story. dcw. May 15, 2021, 1:41:59 PM Again Mike, seems a bit of a stretch to use these 4 lines as prima facia evidence the man wasn't there, because months later DB claims he did or didn't mention anything the man running away as he hands Poe the shells. POE offers a more detailed story. DB, not as much. I firmly see this as Willis jumping way to high and with specific intention to squeeze a round conclusion into a square question. Mr. BALL. And what happened after that? Mr. POE. I talked to a Spanish man, but I don't remember his name. Dominique, I believe. Mr. BALL. Domingo Benavides? Mr. POE. I believe that is correct; yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What did he tell you? Mr. POE. He told me, give me the same, or similar description of the man, and told me he was running out across this lawn. He was unloading his pistol as he ran, and he picked the shells up. Mr. BALL. Domingo told you who was running across the lawn? Mr. POE. A man, white man. Mr. BALL. What was he doing? Mr. POE. He was unloading his pistol as he run. Mr. BALL. And what did he say? Mr. POE. He said he picked the two hulls up. Mr. BALL. Did he hand you the hulls? Mr. POE. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did you put any markings on the hulls? Mr. POE. I couldn't swear to it; no, sir. Mr. BALL. What did you do with the hulls? Mr. POE. I turned the hulls into the crime lab, which was at the scene. Mr. BALL. Do you know the name of the man with the crime lab or from the crime lab? Mr. POE. I couldn't swear to it. I believe Pete Barnes, but I wouldn't swear to it. Furthermore, it is a bit disingenuous to stop the quoted discussion before he says something that contradicts the premise: Mr. BELIN - Do you remember the name of the officer? Mr. BENAVIDES - No, sir; I didn't even ask him. I just told him that this was the shells that he had fired, and I handed them to him. Seemed like he was a young guy, maybe 24. Mr. BENAVIDES - I left right after. I give the shells to the officer. I turned around and went back and we returned to work. (DJ: dcw's entire argument hinges on whether months later DB does not mention "talking" to POE. C'mon man) Mr. BELIN - Then what happened? Did the officers ever get in touch with you? Mr. BENAVIDES - Later on that evening, about 4 o'clock, there was two officers came by and asked for me, Mr. Callaway asked me---I had told them that I had seen the officer (suppose that would be POE?), and the reporters were there and I was trying to hide from the reporters because they will just bother you all the time. Then I found out that they thought this was the guy that killed the President. At the time I didn't know the President was dead or he had been shot. I was just trying to hide from the reporters and everything, and these two officers came around and asked me if I'd seen him, and I told him yes, and told them what I had seen, and they asked me if I could identify him, and I said I don't think I could. It this time I was sure, I wasn't sure that I could or not. I wasn't going to say I could identify and go down and couldn't have. Mr. BELIN - Did he ever take you to the police station and ask you if you could identify him? Mr. BENAVIDES - No; they didn't. 3rd paragraph. Since Poe cannot find his self-confessed etched initials in the 4 hulls - does that POE too wasn't there? Poe is said to say that he received "two similar cartridge cases on Nov 22 from DOMINGO BENAVIDES" From this he AND YOU can conclude DB wasn't there? And then not offer any reason... Say, to plant the correct shells into evidence... I wrote a paper showing the paths of the 2 pistols at the DPD that afternoon. And once again WESTBROOK and HILL are involved. We've also traded the pistol back to the same Canadian company who had "2766" a Carcano FC rifle identical to the one "found" on the 6th floor. My point here Mike, if you are using Don to bolster the argument DB wasn't there for some nefarious reason like getting the planted shells into evidence... Say so. Explain how you see that working and why. Like Bart and many other proving no 2nd floor lunchroom interaction... a fabrication. POE is not sure if he marked the shells... maybe. Yet one wonders why the FBI would write such a report claiming that POE marked them before giving to Barnes and then say Poe's initials aren't there. Barnes claims to have marked the shells as well with a diamond tip tool. BARNES does not say POE marked the shells too... does not saying something mean it never happened, or simply suggests it may have never happened? FWIW I see too much contortion to get the assumption to fit the situation. DB was there. The conspiracy encapsulated on that street offers many more clues to who was doing what than whether POE over stated or DB under-

I know for a fact he could care less. I send him some of the knucklehead comments just so we can have a good laugh together. Most of the naysayer Nimrods here couldn't tie his shoes let alone debate or discuss the details of the case with him. Classic low IQ response as well... "if I don't understand it, I must bash it and keep bashing it until they relent" Trump101 Great to see you posting as always DGH... hope you and yours are well. DJ

YOU turned it. And then get upset with me when I ask you explain what you said. Do you have any thoughts on the wallet? If you want to discuss DB... start a thread or add on to the many already here. There are 19 pages of posts with BENAVIDES As for the Wallets... Here is 2005 "Oswald's Wallet" thread: there were 5 wallets identified Posted July 31, 2005 On the WALLETs...all of the above and more. I wrote articles for the Fourth Decade in the 90s on the wallets. John Armstrong has the best answers in HARVEY&LEE, pages 862-868. There were at least four. DPD suppressed photo below. Also, wallet at Tippit scene. Jack

Most assuredly MK... It would still be nice if you offered a point or hypothesis since you seem so well versed on the subject and it appears so near and dear to your interests. I happen to have written on quite a large variety of subjects over the years and luckily have had the time to research deeply my specific areas of interest. This is the first I've encountered someone so adamant about DB and the Tippit murder... so I ask you explain your POV and we are left with you negating DB's testimony, 1967 video and the reports of those 3 men. Poe, Jez, Levealle reports and somehow you included CIMINO for "not" saying anything related to DB... Why do you think there is ambiguity in the evidence related to DB's presence a Tippit's murder scene and of the evidence I have offered showing from a few different vantage points DB was indeed there and did interact with a number of people. What about the evidence convinces you they are all fabricating his presence, and why would they be doing that? FWIW, I post new and old things all the time and get challenged quite often. Defending one's conclusions using logic and solid arguments remains one of the cornerstones of this place. A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction MK, I did refute the argument you were offering with links, quotes and documents. You offered a Straw Man in response to a discussion about Wallets where you are arguing about the existence of DB at the scene. What did that have to do with the thread's original subject?

What Straw Man would that be Mike? You read the term Straw Man somewhere and wanted to try it out?.. I went back to read your posts here again... Lots of question and very few answers... you appear genuinely confused over this "complicated situation". You urged patience. What's the point of the claim Mike... to show the DPD lied? the FBI lied? And somehow you think this is news Why is it you cannot address the real and circumstantial evidence I and others provided that shows he was there rather than play dumb and insulted? You're doing a poor, half-assed job of making ANY point here Mike and having been here as long as I have, it's not hard to see when someone is in over their head. One would think @Greg Doudna would be a little more bothered by the hijacking of the thread. But then as I read again, this really never was about WALLETS, but Myers... Second, it also is not Oswald's wallet for the two reasons Myers names: It would have been reported in DPD reports if it had been Oswald's. You really have to joking here. Myers says? Really? Are you aware of the problems with the evidence, the DPD, the FBI and the documents left for us to see - the negative with the BYPs, we are told, were listed as "Miscellaneous" on Stovall's inventory. You want to believe the MINOX was Mr. Paines? C'mon man. I've posted the Wallet evidence a few times now but I guess my rough exterior expectations that people stand behind what they post puts some off. You want to prove Bentley/Hill did not see a wallet in the car? You want to DISPROVE Croy's statements and signed photograph? "FIRST ON THE SCENE- SA ROBERT M BARRETT REMOVED OSWALD'S DALLAS FBI WALLET THERE TOO" Doesn't really matter as I also showed you the FBI B1 report with the Wallet contents which are all Oswald... nothing HIDELL... then the CLEMENTS report with the photograph of the HIDELL SSS card with his photo on it... then the BOOKOUT report where the SSS Notice without his photo is now listed as being in the wallet while other items listed from CLEMENTS are gone. It would have been reported in DPD reports if it had been Oswald's So you are aware this is Myers doublespeak right? The BYP negatives are not in the inventories offered by anyone taking items from Irving or Beckley... So they weren't Oswald's? The one key point to this entire thing then is "how do the HIDELL ID's come into being"? When FBI agent Bob Barrett arrived at the scene he parked his car across from Scoggins' cab and walked toward Tippit's patrol car. Barrett explained, "I went on over there and Captain Westbrook was there with several of his officers .... .lt hadn't been very long when Westbrook looked up and saw me and called me over. He had this wallet in his hand. Now, I don't know where he found it, but he had the wallet in his hand. I presumed that they had found it on or near Tippit. Westbrook asked me, 'Do you know who Lee Harvey Oswald is?' And, 'Do you know who Alek Hidell is?' And I said, 'No, I never heard of them. " Westbrook then showed Barrett the wallet and the contents. FBI agent James Hasty wrote in his book Assignment Oswald. "Near the puddle of blood where Tippit's body had lain, (DPD Captain) Westbrook had found a man's leather wallet. In it, he discovered identification for Lee Oswald, as well as other identification for Alek Hidell." l'm adamant that there was a wallet in somebody's hand and (Westbrook) asked me if I knew who 'Lee Harvey Oswald' was and who 'Hidell' was." Barrett later told fellow agent James Hosty about the wallet and it's contents. Barrett told Hosty the wallet contained identification for both Lee Harvey Oswald and Alex Hidell. Barrett told Hasty that Captain Westbrook kept the wallet and thought that he had placed it in police property. The first police officer to arrive at the scene of Tippit's murder was reserve Sergeant Kenneth H. Croy. Croy was driving west on Colorado Blvd. when he reached Zang and heard the call that a police officer had been shot. Croy drove l/2 mile south and arrived at the scene as Tippit's body was being loaded into an ambulance. A civilian, who has never been identified, approached Croy and handed him a wallet which he (Croy) later gave to Sergeant Calvin Owens.53 53 Jones Harris interview of Kenneth Croy, Il/02/02. WF AA-TV cameraman Ron Reiland shot film footage in which Captain George M. Doughty, Sergeant Calvin Owens, and Captain Westbrook can be seen handling or viewing the wallet. TIPPIT-It/IZ In one scene Sergeant Owens is holding a man's leather wallet in his right hand and showing it to Captain George Doughty. SA Barrett said, "The wallet was there. There's no getting around that." Here are some screen shots of the broadcast showing the pistol and wallet in the hands of OWENS I believe. The police learned about the jacket when an unidentified civilian told Sergeant Calvin Owens that the gunman had discarded his jacket in the Texaco parking lot. As Walker was broadcasting the description of Tippit's assailant Patrolman Joe M. Poe and Leonard E. Jez arrived in a police car as Sergeant Calvin Owens, Sergeant Gerald Hill, Assistant D.A. Bill Alexander, and an unidentified man arrived in another car. Sergeant Croy, the first officer at the scene, approached Sergeant Owens and gave him the wallet that was given to him by the unidentified civilian This is the only question related to Tippit/Hidell asked of OSWALD. Fritz asked no questions about the Tippit murder according to interrogation reports/notes. Posted earlier, this is the DB evidence you claim does not prove DB was there... as if it matters. A man was trying to use the radio in the squad car but stated he didn't know how to operate it. /s/ T. F. Bowley Mr. BENAVIDES - The gun was in his hand and he was partially lying on his gun in his right hand. He was partially lying on his gun and on his hand, too. Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do? Mr. BENAVIDES - Then I don't know if I opened the car door back further than what it was or not, but anyway, I went in and pulled the radio and I mashed the button and told them that an officer had been shot, and I didn't get an answer, so I said it again, and this guy asked me whereabouts all of a sudden, and I said, on 10th Street. I couldn't remember where it was at at the time. So I looked up and I seen this number and I said 410 East 10th Street. Mr. BELIN - You saw a number on the house then? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes. ... (IOW - DB was not using the radio correctly and could only hear what was coming thru) Mr. BENAVIDES - Then he started to--then I don't know what he said; but I put the radio back. I mean, the microphone back up, and this other guy was standing there, so I got up out of the car, and I don't know, I wasn't sure if he heard me, and the other guy sat down in the car. Mr. BALL. And what happened after that? Mr. POE. I talked to a Spanish man, but I don't remember his name. Dominique, I believe. Mr. BALL. Domingo Benavides? Mr. POE. I believe that is correct; yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What did he tell you? Mr. POE. He told me, give me the same, or similar description of the man, and told me he was running out across this lawn. He was unloading his pistol as he ran, and he picked the shells up. Mr. BALL. Domingo told you who was running across the lawn? Mr. POE. A man, white man. Mr. BALL. What was he doing? Mr. POE. He was unloading his pistol as he run. https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338726/m1/1/?q=poe. "Unidentified witness handed Officer Poe two empty hulls..." https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338287/m1/1/?q=poe Poe and Jez report 11/22 "Unidentified witness handed Officer Poe two empty hulls..." https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337443/m1/1/?q=poe Leavelle "Officer Poe also told me someone had picked up two empty .38 hulls..."

What effect does proving all the available evidence - most of which I posted with links as posters here don't seem to want readers to see the source materials from which they draw conclusions - about DB being there and the actions he took have on our understanding of the case? You think DB had anything to do with the variable # of shells? You think he did not talk to Poe? Did not hand him the shells in a cigarette package per Poe/Hill? How does DB relate to the 3 versus 2 shells as told by Hill v Poe which would add to 5 shells? Mr. BALL. And what happened after that? Mr. POE. I talked to a Spanish man, but I don't remember his name. Dominique, I believe. Mr. BALL. Domingo Benavides? Mr. POE. I believe that is correct; yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What did he tell you? Mr. POE. He told me, give me the same, or similar description of the man, and told me he was running out across this lawn. He was unloading his pistol as he ran, and he picked the shells up. Mr. BALL. Domingo told you who was running across the lawn? Mr. POE. A man, white man. Mr. BALL. What was he doing? Mr. POE. He was unloading his pistol as he run. https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338726/m1/1/?q=poe. "Unidentified witness handed Officer Poe two empty hulls..." https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338287/m1/1/?q=poe Poe and Jez report 11/22 "Unidentified witness handed Officer Poe two empty hulls..." https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337443/m1/1/?q=poe Leavelle "Officer Poe also told me someone had picked up two empty .38 hulls..." Bulletin Mike - this issue is trivial. There is nothing you have said or offer which shows any level of importance to the question of DB's presence. You don't even theorize what the purpose might be for Poe, Jez and Leavelle all to make up a person at the scene, and then have that person corroborate the story. If it looks, smells and sh!ts like a duck... it's a duck Well, in 1967 he says exactly the same thing (1) Domingo Benavides, The Warren Report: Part 3, CBS Television (27th June, 1967) As I was driving down the street, I seen this police car, was sitting here, and the officer was getting out of the car, and apparently he'd been talking to the man that was standing by the car. The policeman got out of the car, and as he walked past the windshield of the car, where it's kind of lined up over the hood of the car, where this other man shot him. And, of course, he was reaching for his gun. And so, I was standing there, you know, I mean sitting there in the truck, and not in no big hurry to get out because I was sitting there watching everything. This man turned from the car then, and took a couple of steps, and as he turned to walk away I believe he was unloading his gun, and he took the shells up in his hand, and as he took off, he threw them in the bushes more or less like nothing really, trying to get rid of them. I guess he didn't figure he'd get caught anyway, so he just threw them in the bushes.

Can you sum up the significance of establishing one way or another that yet another "fact" offered initially - what DB says and the other witnesses said is NOT TRUE and DB made it all up to appear as if he was there - or he was actually there - and that makes a difference how?

Uh, yeah. I'd be a bit more concerned with the WC, Church, Rockefeller & the HSCA reports fostered upon the world as complete garbage and only serves as the centerpiece of the coverup. Reminds me a question I got in a philosophy of Religions class: If G~d was to reveal himself to all of humanity so there was no question, what does that do to Faith? Maybe finally learning that Faith in Gov't investigations and their exposure of "truth" has been a sham since the beginning of Gov't. Building castles on quicksand only leads to the whole thing sinking into oblivion.

Do you mind if I ask - why are you trying to rewrite the way things happened by paraphrasing reports and testimony? So an FBI SA signed the report... that makes it beyond reproach - A true representation of the fact? C'mon man. No Mike I don't expect anyone to ID those who were not observed... By the very nature of how DB gets there and what he does, precludes CIMINO from seeing him... (or saw him and didn't mention him). CIMINO didn't mention Jimmy Burt, didn't mention many people there within minutes... not there either? How can you conclude what you do without looking at all the evidence and what it actually says... not what YOU say it says. The man did not say Benavides was not there.. I posted his statement above. Show us which part of that convinces you DB was not there. The rest of the evidence is discussed next: Your "feelings" notwithstanding, I've been doing this a bit longer and more deeply than you and have fairly good recall. There is nothing you've said or offered that has not been discussed 20 times. The forum has a SEARCH function. "Convincing me Benavides was at the murder scene when Tippit was killed will go a long way to changing my mind." Very few things can be offered related to this case which is that unambiguous to allow it to "convince" anyone of anything. One needs a bigger picture of the evidence. From the available evidence I find it extremely difficult to conclude DB was not exactly where he said he was simply because people did not say or report what you want them to in order to convince you... that would be your problem Mike... not ours. So the sum total of the evidence he was NOT there is CIMINO and the SOR saying DB did not see the suspect? Did you look at any other DB related reports? Did you know his twin brother was shot and killed? The LEAVELLE report associates Benavides with the used car lot Wonder why Leavelle thought DB was an employee of the car lot? Wonder why Poe talks of getting the shells from the same man who testifies to picking up shells and giving them to the police. Maybe stop paraphrasing reports and link to them so people can see immediately what they say. You're taking a variety of evidence that points to the man doing exactly as he said, and trying to invent a NEW scenario... https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337443/m1/3/?q=benavides https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338825/m1/1/?q=benavides This is LC Graves report on interviewing Calloway, Guinyard and Benavides at 501 W Jefferson - the car lot... You both fail to make a convincing argument he WASN'T there, and this tangent to the WALLET THREAD this is supposed to be has lost its way. That you concentrate on the trivial when the WALLET, HIDELL, WESTBROOK, CROY and FRITZ are dead center in a part of the conspiracy to implicate, which involved advanced planning and covert cooperation between the FBI and DPD... in favor of arguing if DB was there... thanks for moving the ball forward on Tippit Known members of the 488th Reserve Military Intelligence Detachment Jack Crichton George Lumpkin Jack Revill Pat Gannaway William Westbrook Frank Brandstetter Jack Earnest Likely members of the 488th include: Boise B Smith Gerald Hill Don Stringfellow What would that look like Mike? Something like this maybe? Mr. BELIN -You almost got up to Denver and 10th heading west on 10th Street when you saw something? Mr. BENAVIDES - I saw this police car. Mr. BELIN - You saw a police car? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN - Where was the police car? Mr. BENAVIDES - It was sitting about 4 or 5 feet from the curb and down about 2 houses from the corner of Patton Street. Mr. BELIN - All right. Was it between Patton and Denver? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN - On what side of East 10th, north or south? Mr. BENAVIDES - On the south side. Mr. BELIN - What direction was it headed? Mr. BENAVIDES - It was headed east. Mr. BELIN - What did you see then? Mr. BENAVIDES - I then pulled on up and I seen this officer standing by the door. The door was open to the car, and I was pretty close to him, and I seen Oswald, or the man that shot him, standing on the other side of the car. Mr. BELIN - All right. Did you see the officer as he was getting out of the car? Mr. BENAVIDES - No; I seen as he was, well, he had his hand on the door and kind of in a hurry to get out, it seemed like. Mr. BELIN - Had he already gotten out of the car? Mr. BENAVIDES - He had already gotten around. Mr. BELIN - Where did you see the other man? Mr. BENAVIDES - The other man was standing to the right side of the car, riders side of the car, and was standing right in front of the windshield on the right front fender. And then I heard the shot. Actually I wasn't looking for anything like that, so I heard the shot, and I just turned into the curb. Looked around to miss a car, I think. And then I pulled up to the curb, hitting the curb, and I ducked down, and then I heard two more shots. Mr. BELIN - How many shots did you hear all told? Mr. BENAVIDES - I heard three shots. Mr. BELIN - You heard three shots? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir, Mr. BELIN - Where were you when your vehicle stopped? Mr. BENAVIDES - About 15 foot, just directly across the street and maybe a car length away from the police car. Mr. BELIN - Would you have been a car length to the east or a car length to the west of the police car? Mr. BENAVIDES - East of the front side of it. Mr. BELIN - So your vehicle wouldn't have quite gotten up to where the Police car was? Mr. BENAVIDES - No; it didn't. Mr. BELIN - How fast were you going when you watched the policeman getting out of his car? Mr. BENAVIDES - Oh, I imagine not maybe 25 miles an hour. I never did pay much attention to it. Mr. BELIN - You say you stopped the car right away? Your vehicle, I mean? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir. I just didn't exactly stop because I just pulled it into the curb. Mr. BELIN - Then you say you heard a shot and you then ducked? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes. No; I heard the shot before I pulled in.

Sweet post there Greg. The details of the Tippit scene is imo most influenced by the "witness seeing different things" problem like the movie Vantage Point... Depends where you were and when. And then who writes the report, is it signed, changed? @Michael Kalin Kinda interesting your comments given you weren't there and now that I check - Cimino's "statement" which was FBI offered, and the DPD archives for any statement he may have made to them... comes up empty: John F. Kennedy, Dallas Police Department Collection - 0 Matching Results No Results Found Your search for cimino didn't return any results. Turns out his "statement" is an unsigned FBI document: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/cimino_f.htm and does not indeed say he does not see Benavides or his truck, but that he didn't see "anyone". How you can just state that the unseen man was not in his truck at the scene based on CIMINO's evidence is simply your commentary and has nothing to do with the other related facts. Or maybe you can explain the comment with how the two items of evidence are connected and proves he wasn't there. FRANK CIMINO, 403 East Tenth Street, Apartment 7, Dallas, Texas, advised that on November 22, 1963, he was residing in an apartment at 405 East Tenth Street. He Stated that at around 1 p.m. he was at his apartment listening to the radio. He heard four loud noises which sounded like shots and then he heard a women scream. He jumped up, put on his shoes and ran outside the house, and a woman dressed like a waitress was out in front of his residence shouting, "Call the police". She also advised a man had just shot a police officer and stated he had run west on Tenth Street and pointed in the direction of an alley which runs between Tenth Street and Jefferson off Patton Street. He looked in this direction but did not see anyone. Be then walked over to the officer and saw he had been shot in the head. The officer was lying on his side with his head in front of the left front head light of his car. His gun was out of the holster and lying by his side. The officer moved slightly and groaned but never said anything that he could understand. About this time people came from all directions, and he walked up to the corner of Patton and East Tenth Street and looked through the alleyway but could not see a~one running up the alley. He then walked back to where the officer was being removed by am ambulance and then turned back to him apartment. He stated he was not acquainted with LEE OSWALD or JACK RUBY. He added that around December 24, 1963, he will be leaving Dallas for a vacation but can be reached through his mother at 530 Fifteenth Street, Niagara Falls. New York. on 12/3/63 at Dallas, Texas File # DL 89-43 By Special Agents HENRY J OLIVER AND DAVID H. BARRY Date dictated 12/4/63 You seem to forget this was a Conspiracy to convict a patsy. The evidence will only skew in that direction if one only looks at the surface. You gotta dig a bit to get to a more truthful explanation of the events. I haven't gotten into this thread as the back-n-forth over these little details when the result of the Tippit murder and the Hidell ID are much more critical. Oswald was already at the theater. People don't want to believe Barbara, not much we can do. K Croy, in the white hat at the Tippit scene, claims to be first "officer" on the scene. He tools around for 30 mins then claims to just leave and go have a meal with his wife... no big deal, just JFK assassinated... Are you aware of what the ambulance driver said about the scene of the crime? Covered the body with a royal blue coat??? After being shot from the front, Tippit falls forward on his face, laying on his stomach. Based on the Autopsy, one has to wonder how that shot to the head, as a last shot based on witness testimony, could have been accomplished given how he was found. . Benavides was a fairly dapper guy. Him noticing the hairline is not so out of context

The background file above is a 1" x 1.2" 1000dpi image I created from the same originals we all work with at 72dpi. As I wrote @Pat Speer it is a reversal of the Kramer photo in Minsk that fits into the Prayerman's available info, enhanced. As I posted earlier... the area of the 8mm frame we are talking about is unimaginably small yet if we could have access can be scanned to a 1120 dpi resolution - yet even that will be limited based on the size of the area. Photoshop's resolution increasing processes are well understood and it is clear we are not adding information from thin air but from the data in the images offered. This is the same file at 2000 dpi with added contrast and brightness. While now exaggerated, the hairline, ear, neck, shirt, shoulders, even the left arm outline can easily be seen without feeling as if we've created something out of nothing.

Looking to prove definitively that it was Oswald outside and not shooting? What harm? Two quick examples of those who stuck to their stories: Ralph Yates and Andrew Bolden I've been focusing primarily on images for the 25 years I've been doing this. I don't believe you can make the argument that all the the darkness under the arm is that person's body. From the shoulder down to the area representing the mid section widens based on the pixelated view we have. I was given images of an Alpha 66 meeting and took some time looking as it was said OSWALD was there. From my experience looking at OSWALD and the way his body language seems to fall.. this is him. FWIW You will rarely if ever see a photo of OSWALD with his hands at his sides. Bent arms almost always... hands in pockets like the Minsk photo, the Ferrie cadets photo and even back to the Bronx zoo photo when he was 13 almost 14. By taking this photo of Oswald and flipping it, we get almost a perfect fit for the hairline and stance of OSWALD. The bent arms and way he is holding his body suggest to me after looking at his photo for all these years, there is a significant chance that is OSWALD. The FBI 6 question BS about seeing Oswald "during the assassination" they had so many sign does not remove him from being there... The complete lack of anyone, ever saying anything about OSWALD being there immediately afterward, when they actually turned around. Were they simply too dazed as they went back in to notice this person?

In all there were 5 wallets: This thread seems to have gone sideways into "Hill and TSBD" somehow... all good - yet in the wallet conversation - the existence, disappearance and provenance of 2 wallets, Tippit/Arrest, and the attributing of HIDELL ID to an Irving wallet which already has its own inventory, & the fact WESTBROOK and CROY are intimately involved in the only overt mention of HIDELL=OSWALD. (BALL, I think, puts the words into HILL's mouth) Connecting OSWALD to HIDELL within an hour, and the rifle bought by HIDELL is proven fraudulent by the terrible KLEIN's and MONEY ORDER evidence... again HIDELL. HIDELL ID was inserted into the scene primarily related to the death of Tippit... the wallet at that scene and the arrest wallet of the man who supposedly killed him. Could that have been the real and only reason for Tippit? To pick up Oswald with this "discovered" ID? Would it not have been easier to simply find HIDELL in his wallet in Irving since it was months since he supposedly used it. I mean, why would Oswald have the fake ID which can only tie him to the newly found evidence for the rifle, on him that day with the variety of other things in that wallet; conversation for another day Tracing the wallets and finding the crossroads being FRITZ's office at some point that afternoon as it is he who provides CLEMENTS with a photo of the SSS card with OSWALD's photo. It is also FRITZ, we surmise, who has to decide what to do with 2 wallets from Irving and 2 more wallets that very day. Looking into FRITZ we found his willingness to do what was necessary to maintain his near perfect conviction record. Items from all the wallets (except the Marine photo whcih should be there) are then mixed together over that weekend with a few minor changes between Fri and Sun (see reports below). The wallets are a blatant example of the evidence tampering FRITZ oversaw while the FBI condoned. In the infamous Lafitte notes there is mention of "poor Tippit". Without the HIDELL=OSWALD connection, the murder weapons cannot be connected to Oswald. This seems to refer to the 16 "original" items as everything else says "photo of" 5 wallets: 1-Tippit, 2-Arrest, 3-#114-Brn w/Marine photo, 4-#382-Red (Both Irving) and below 5-a "studded" wallet. Below that is another DPD evidence photo post FBI "inking/Nov 26th" of items attributed in FBI B1 as contents of this wallet which the DPD says came from Irving. The Hidell SSS card is offered as comparison D71, the SSS Notice of Classification with photo, was discussed on the 22nd and written about by FBI SA CLEMENTS in his report as a "Photo of the SSS card" - Studded wallet - DPD Archives (Irving) DPD ARCHIVE Items in IRVING Wallet. FBI took all evidence on 22nd and returned over 200 more items than taken, most with these fingerprint testing ink stains. These items are from Oswald's life and are listed in FBI B1. There is another page or two of these images which overlap as you can see the items cut off at the top. WCD345 FBI Evidence inventory lists CLEMENTS v BOOKOUT Wallet contents reports. Slight differences. Bookout all photos from FRITZ

I think that depends on the who within "the Cuban consulate was guilty of a gross breach of regulations", doesn't it? If the writer is aware of Azcue's replacement, but is wrong about the date... is the writer aware of the "regulations breached"? Can you help me understand the connection between Azcue and this breach and in turn how anyone would know about it when WE don't even know about it, at this point in time. This is Sept 9 1963. On the 10th we have 104-10163-11012 talking of how CASAS would possibly try and approach AZCUE. "If Azcue said no, that would be the end of it" On Sept 13, 104-10163-10010 AZCUE supposedly now leaving OCT 4. I guess the point is those in the CIA involved in the documentation which flowed - and those ancillary - were well aware of the situation with AZCUE. Even if the writer is referring to AZCUE, isn't it only Ruth Paine the source for the handwritten letter as well as the typed letter? Finally David, I have a number of documents talking about AM(S)POON-1 and the AMROD dirty mail campaigns that occurred around the Cuban Embassy's personnel in the months prior to Sept/Oct. There really is little reason to believe that letter is not just another prop., as I see it