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Gary Murr

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About Gary Murr

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  1. Lee Harvey Oswald's possessions

    Welcome to the forum, Zach, and an interesting first posting. Am I to assume, based upon what I see in your avatar, that you are potentially a fellow Canadian? Gary Murr
  2. Bloomfield Papers

    Hello John: I believe Jim is referring to a fellow Canadian here - Robert Charles Dunne - or as he is known, "RCD." When you get a chance check out some of his postings here on the Ed Forum; I think you will find his writings insightful. Gary Murr
  3. Montreal is more than Permindex

    As with a lot of what one finds on Wiki, information such as this should be approached with caution particularly if one seeks historical accuracy. While it is true that Century Arms was "founded" in St. Albans, Vermont, in 1961, the power behind this particular "throne" was William Sucher and Empire Wholesale out of Montreal. As I discovered, James Ouimet, who is referred to as the "President" of Century Arms was actually a figurehead put in place by Sucher and his associates to run Century on their behalf. Sucher had actually established a foothold in this same area years earlier, but got into trouble with the state and the ATAF for violating various arms/armaments statutes and got the boot out of the country. Century was his "back door" re-entry into the U. S. and the lucrative arms market he wished to exploit, which he obviously did with huge success. Members of Sucher's family continue to run Century out of Florida and have for decades. The oft-repeated story that Sucher started out as a typewriter salesman is contrived, at best. William Sucher was, from the very beginning, involved in the importation and selling of arms and ammunition - the "typewriter"/office equipment business was merely a front, a company he started simultaneously with his first arms/armament company and one that he had registered in his wife's name. In excess of 10,000 pages of my 50,000+ pages I have acquired in my search for the true history of 6.5mm ammunition manufactured by the Western Cartridge Company deals with Empire Wholesale, Century Arms, et al., including all articles of incorporation for all of the companies generated by Sucher and his associates. FWIW Gary
  4. The TSBD roof

    No problem, Pat; I will see you in Dallas in a couple of weeks. Gary
  5. The TSBD roof

    Hey Pat : Tried to sent you a "private" message on this subject matter but was halted by a message indicating that you "cannot receive messages" What's up? Gary
  6. Inside Inside the Target Car:

    George: I don't recall David indicating/stating that the note page "History of Evidence" was actually written on November 22, 1963. In truth this particular page is one torn from one of SA Robert Frazier's lab notebooks, a listing prepared by Frazier in conjunction with his multiple testimony sessions before the Warren Commission. If you read this page completely you will note that Frazier indicates just when specific pieces of evidence were initially obtained by the FBI lab, returned to Dallas, and then returned again back to the FBI. As far as consistency is concerned, having handled and/or read several thousand original documents [which this page most certainly is] produced by members of the FBI, in particular handwritten notes and notebooks of various FBI lab employees, I can say with confidence that all of the writing/printing on this note page is the work of Robert Frazier. And the "conflict" of "notes" right and left is the point David was trying to make - how can the same piece of evidence [Q1, C1, or as it will become known, CE399] be introduced by members of the FBI theoretically into evidence one hour apart? While I would agree that mistakes are made, innocent or otherwise, the concept that everything produced by the FBI et al - "evidence" if you will - is somehow "faked and manufactured" is repetitively annoying and can only lead the CT community down tunnels with no light at the other end. If I might ask you a question: Have you ever been to the archives to personally see, handle, or read any of the materials that you at times have questioned? FWIW
  7. Gary, the evidence is that it was addressed to him. As you stated yourself, The answer I contend is on the memorandum itself - the individual and entity to whom Audrey Bell originally and "normally" addressed the document and envelope - "Lt. Alexander, Crime Lab." Just because the memorandum was addressed to Lt. Alexander does not, in my opinion, constitute proof of reception of this same document by Lt. Alexander and importantly the accompanying metallic residue. As Audrey Bell herself indicated, normal procedure would leave one with the assumption that acquisition of the document [and evidence] would have occurred had normal procedural routines been followed through to fruition. But "normal procedure" did not rule this particular day and what should have occurred procedurally did not occur - was short-circuited through the process of intervention on the part of Bob Nolan. So I ask the question once again: What proof do you have that Lt. Alexander ever had possession of this specific document? Do you see anything on this document that confirms Alexander ever saw, handled, or read the document? Are his initials on this document - anywhere? Whose initials are on the document?
  8. Bob: What evidence do you have that Lt. Alexander ever had possession of what you continue to maintain is a "bogus" receipt, duly prepared by Audrey Bell and signed, in turn, by Robert Nolan? Have you ever seen, or can you produce, another receipt from what in your opinion must be "thousands" that passed through the office from Lt. Alexander?
  9. Part 2 - I hope When one acquires a copy of this file you find that there is no pagination involved, though the pages do run roughly chronological beginning from the point of the admittance of Kennedy and Connally to PMH. You will find a copy of the Audrey Bell memorandum in this file - either version. As I further indicated in my writing, there is no indication, and as far as I can tell remains no indication that anyone from the ARRB staff were either aware of this document nor were ever able to find this document either prior to or after their interview with Audrey Bell on March 20, 1997, including Doug Horne who was involved in this process. I think one of the keys in understanding the "confusion" as to whom precisely Audrey Bell may have given the "fragment" evidence envelope in question is to be found in a statement you introduced earlier in this exchange, Bob, when you accurately referenced the following from Audrey Bell herself, her answer to the question posed of her by the HSCA staffer concerning distribution of the envelope: B: I delivered them to the FBI, and he signed for them, this was a deviation from our procedure, he signed, ah, there was a, took an inter-office memorandum and wrote on there about my delivering those to the FBI." I have underlined what to me is the important phrase in this answer - Bell indicating that her delivery of the envelope "to the FBI" [something that is unquestionably false] - represented a "deviation" from normal procedure. What then was or should have been normal procedure? The answer I contend is on the memorandum itself - the individual and entity to whom Audrey Bell originally and "normally" addressed the document and envelope - "Lt. Alexander, Crime Lab." Mrs. Bell did not intend or direct this memo and materials to C. J. Price; she did not intend or label intent to turn this material over to any Federal agent, FBI or otherwise. What she did intend to do was follow normal procedure - send the potential evidentiary material, in this case a bullet fragment or fragments if you like, to the "Crime Lab" at PMH. One of the misconceptions that have arisen as a result of any attempt to follow the matter of the paraffin tests is the assumption that Lt. Alexander was a member of the Dallas Police Department. Whether this is precisely true or not is difficult to assess from the surviving record. The first individual to be deposed in Dallas on April 7, 1964, was that fellow officer named by J. B. Hicks as his partner of paraffin paraphernalia, Sergeant W. E. Barnes. Sergeant Barnes was questioned by the other half of that dynamic duo of Commission staff indifference, David Belin. The following exchange, again and quoting from my Connally work, occurred near the end of the Belin – Barnes testimony session: Mr. Belin. What did you do? (again, in the office of Capt. Fritz) Mr. Barnes. We got our equipment and got the paraffin melted, and while it was being prepared, we told him we would have to make a paraffin cast of his hands. Mr. Belin. What did he say to that? [i.e. Oswald] Mr. Barnes. It was okay with him. Mr. Belin. Did he say anything as to any other comments he had about the paraffin tests? Mr. Barnes. None other than he stated to me, “What are you trying to do, prove that I fired a gun?” And I said, “I am not trying to prove that you fired a gun. We have the test to make, and the chemical people at the lab, at the city-county laboratory will determine the rest of it. Mr. Belin. What is the purpose of a paraffin test? Mr. Barnes. The purpose is to find out if there is any nitrates on your hands. Mr. Belin. Officer, how many years have you personally made paraffin tests? Mr. Barnes. Since 1956. Mr. Belin. What is the procedure by which you determine whether or not there are any nitrates on one’s hands? Mr. Barnes. The analyses are made at Parkland Hospital by their personnel. Mr. Belin. Do they analyze the wax? Mr. Barnes. They analyze the wax that I remove from his hands after the casts are made… Mr. Belin. What did you do then? Mr. Barnes. I initialed the cast, sealed them, and placed them in our locked evidence room. Mr. Belin. Where did they go after that? Mr. Barnes. They go to our city-county laboratory for analysis. Mr. Belin. Where is that city-county laboratory? Mr. Barnes. At Parkland Hospital. Mr. Belin. Do you know when they went there? Mr. Barnes. The following morning. Mr. Belin. Did you get the results from this analysis at all? Mr. Barnes. The results were obtained by our bureau. I didn’t get the results. (*108) Perhaps Mr. Belin should have been more interested in just who had done the actually testing – the “chemical people” at Parkland - than in priming Mr. Barnes with more leading questions. It would have been nice if Belin had found and questioned Lt. Alexander about other matters, such as what he may or may not have known about the fragment or fragments removed from the right distal radius of Governor Connally. And although Belin would also question the one individual from the Dallas Police Department who “directed” officers Barnes and Hicks to undertake the paraffin tests in the first place, Lt. J. C. Day, Belin did not introduce the Parkland Hospital lab results into evidence, even though Day had them in his possession during his April 22, 1964 testimony session with Belin in Washington, D. C. (*109) In scouring the surviving records of the Dallas Police Department, transferred to the Dallas Municipal Archives in 1989, we once again find scant mention of Lt. Alexander. However, what little we can find indicates that his initials were “F.T” but that is where the trail ends.(*110) As it turns out Lt. Alexander was not involved in the actual processing of the various Oswald paraffin casts. That task fell to fellow DCCCIL Lab employee, Louie Anderson. Anderson’s involvement in this matter was brought to the attention of the Commission, through the auspices of attorney, author, and general pain in the Commission’s craw, Mark Lane, but neither the Commission nor Lane’s chief inquisitor, General Counsel J. Lee Rankin, appeared overtly interested in acquiring the Anderson documentation nor in speaking with Anderson directly.(*111) All of Andersons work, rough notes and finished reports, are currently available for perusal at the Dallas Municipal Archives, scattered throughout the surviving files deposited there by the Dallas Police Department.
  10. Bob et al: Part 1 I have decided to place my answer to Bob's question in another thread regarding the Audrey Bell - Robert Nolan receipt document in this thread in the main to indicate to all that the document in question is not only not "worthless" but genuine and available at NARA. I tried to post this earlier in the other thread, with no luck. However, I believe that the issue was my answer was too long. Therefore I am trying again and hope by breaking my answer into multiple parts that it will finally be available for everyone to read. What follows is my answer, "Part 1", verbatim as constructed earlier this date. I have spent some time today going through my files as well as my three volume writing on the wounding of John Connally in an effort to find the specific reference/"hiding place" for the document in question. In so doing, and having found the reference, I have to make a correction to statements I made [from memory and while on the road] a few days ago. The document is actually a part of the records of the HSCA. In my defense, I have not really done much work on the Connally wounding for well over a decade, spending the majority of my free time on another assassination related project, the true history of the 6.5mm MC ammunition manufactured by the Western Cartridge Company. Nonetheless, the following [below and hereafter highlighted in blue] is from Chapter 31, Volume 3, of my Connally work and gives background as to just how the HSCA acquired materials which do include the Audrey Bell memo/receipt note: Cliff Fenton, an ex-New York city homicide detective, was appointed Chief Investigator of the HSCA in March of 1977.(*6) On July 15, 1977 – and through the process of subpoena – “Mr. C.J. Price, Administrator, Parkland Memorial Hospital…” was petitioned to turn over “…all documentary and tangible material pertaining to the treatment of President John F. Kennedy and former Governor John Connally on and after November 22, 1963…” Three days later, July 18, 1977, Fenton and HSCA staff member Donald Purdy served Parkland Memorial Assistant Administrator Robert Clark this subpoena and by way of letter dated July 22, 1977, specifically indicated that the HSCA were particularly interested in acquiring “…medical records, photos, any and all documents pertaining to ex-Governor John Connally’s admission on November 22, 1963.”(*7) On that same date, and by way of letter of transmittal, Mr. Clark complied and on July 27, 1977 the HSCA received, among other things, the Governor’s medical record, as requested, - all 119 pages of it.(*8) Although HSCA staff routing slip # 001894 is attached to the Parkland Memorial Hospital record thus acquired and properly identified, there is no indication from the slip that any of this material was re-directed specifically to anyone of the eight HSCA staff members listed on this same routing slip, nor to one of the five major “teams” which comprised the organizational structure of the HSCA’s investigative process and who were likewise listed on this slip. There is simply no written or initialized acknowledgement of receipt by any of these individuals. The specific HSCA reference number and location where this documentation can be found is: HSCA: Record Number: 180-10096-10351: Numbered Files: Agency File Number: 001894. Box 39. There is a slight corollary to this medical documentation and again from footnote number 8 from the above quotation I wrote the following: 8. HSCA: Record Number: 180-10096-10351: Agency File Number: 001894. It is rather curious that the HSCA has, as part of its records, two “different” versions of the Governor’s theoretical complete medical history of his stay at Parkland Memorial Hospital. The “second” version, that possessing the higher HSCA record number, comprises some eleven more total pages than its predecessor, listed as being 130 pages in length. Though allegedly larger in documentation than the Fenton/Moriarity version, this second rendering actually contains nine fewer pages of pertinent medical data prepared by various Parkland Memorial Hospital personnel. Included in this listing of fewer pages is; analysis of X-rays taken of the Governor on November 27, December 2, and December 4, all prepared by radiologist Jack Reynolds, as well as post-operative shift notations prepared by the nursing staff responsible for the Governor convalescing care, specifically nurses notes for the dates November 26, 27, 29, 30, and December 1, 2, 3. However, what is different in the second version is the inclusion of three disjointed pages from Secret Service prepared files constructed in January and February, 1964, files previously discussed in this writing; photo static copies of the front and back of the “Foreign Body Envelope” which originally was thought to have contained the fragment or fragments removed by Dr. Gregory from the Governor’s right distal radius, and; a single page from an FBI report dated 11/29/63, a report filed by FBI-SA Vincent Drain describing Drain’s acquisition of X-rays of the Governor’s thigh wound and the analysis of these same X-rays by Dr. Reynolds as discussed within the body of this chapter.
  11. Unfortunately there were difficulties in transposition with my lengthy answer in this post. I have deleted the entire content and will re-post my answer either later today or early tomorrow morning. I am not at home at the present and thus do not have access to my original answer and script. Administration was kind enough to try and fix the situation, but things did not work out properly. My apologies Gary
  12. Hello Robert: I thank you for your message and question contained therein. I am on the road - work related - this week but will return home this weekend. I will look up the specific reference for you and pass it along. I understand your skepticism, but the document is genuine. Again because I do not have my files in front of me, and I have had a copy of this document for almost twenty years, I [understandably] cannot remember the specifics of the reference indexing. It is buried somewhere among the 300,000+ pages of documents I possess. I also have had to take a step away from the subject matter, indeed all JFK assassination research, for an extended period of time, health related issues that have nothing to do with our current discussion. I can tell you this much about this document; it is found in files obtained by the ARRB. Indeed they had the same copy I possess before their contact with Audrey Bell. Now given the amount of paperwork they did acquire it is not overtly surprising to me that they/members of their staff were not aware of just where this singular piece of paper was among the thousands and thousands of pages they either possessed or continued to stream into their possession. It is hidden among one of the larger ARRB files and if one was not looking specifically for the document, nor was aware of its particular importance, it could have been easily overlooked. I believe in your prior message you asked something about why the document I have does not possess "colour" writing [?] as indicated by Bell. The answer to that is simply because the copy I have, and the copy at NARA, is a photocopy of the original and is thus reproduced only in black and white. And as a matter of interest, the original is not at NARA. If you look closely in the top right hand corner of the document, and I apologize for the quality but it is the best that is available from the files, you can just make out the name "Audrey Bell" beneath which is the signature/initials of C. J. Price of Parkland Hospital, something I believe Audrey Bell did mention in her testimony - again this is off the top of my head as I am no where near my files. In closing I would like to make a few comments. I must admit I was surprised, and continue to be surprised, that when I first posted a copy of this document that no one commented on the fact that in Audrey Bell indicated, in her own handwriting, that she placed a bullet "fragment", singular, in the evidence envelope - not multiple fragments. Question for you: Since Audrey Bell appears to have both handled this evidence and prepared this same evidence envelope, was she mistaken? If as she indicates she put but a singular fragment in the envelope, an envelope that has been at/with NARA since 1965, how do we reconcile; [a] her later attestations of multiple fragments, which when I compare her drawings of these same fragments to those apparent fragments seen on X-rays taken of Connally's radial wound site appear to be both "too" large and "too" many in number - unless one wants to contend that these and potentially all X-rays taken by members of the Parkland Hospital staff are fakes, a rabbit hole I am not about to crawl into; and multiple fragments as they now exist in evidence at NARA? Have you ever entertained the thought that perhaps not all fragments recovered from the Connally radial wound site were turned over to authorities, Texas, Federal, or otherwise, on the afternoon of November 22nd and that Audrey Bell may indeed have been only given one fragment or allowed to pass along only one fragment to whomever? I, like you, have studied in my past the wounding of John Connally - extensively. I spent the better part of my spare time over a 12 year span doing nothing but studying and gathering evidence that pertains to the Connally wounding. In other words, I also have "been following this issue for a long time." I believe I am one of a very few number of researchers who were allowed access to the clothing worn by John Connally, access that allowed me to take photographs and measurements of all garments and their intendant apertures. Now access such as this and accumulation of documentation does not make one an "expert," a noun I am loath to use. Indeed when one comes across someone who professes to be an "expert" on a specific subject matter one might be wise to turn around and run in the other direction. And finally, my father was "Mr. Murr"; my name is Gary. FWIW
  13. New Book from Larry Hancock

    Really, Larry - where do you find the time? [Large grin ] Congratulations once again, my friend. Look forward to seeing you in Dallas later this year. Gary
  14. And David of course the real "kicker" in all of this is that as far as I know, no witness was ever given access to the FBI's "minute detail" models of the Dealey Plaza area in an effort to "assist...[their] recollections." Indeed once the model was moved by the FBI into it's VFW Building resting place the exhibit was kept under lock and key and access was controlled by Rankin's secretary, Julia Eide. Anyone who wished access to these exhibits, and others in this room, they had to acquire permission and then sign in and out on a secretarial pad that Eide controlled. If you have not seen/read this document, you should. It details just who visited this room, who they were with, and their length of stay within the room with the exhibits. As I contend in unpublished writings, I am convinced that over the weekend of March 13 - 15, 1964, the planning for the "reconstruction" that was to take place in Dallas in May was drawn up by Melvin Eisenberg and others in this room and working directly with/from the FBI model of Dealey Plaza. In fact, that was the only instance in which the key to this room was allowed to be kept for an extended stay, Eisenberg acquiring the key on Friday and not returning it to Eide until Monday morning. And he was not in the room alone. In every other instance the key was signed out and in on the same day as acquired. FWIW Gary
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