BunnyThief

Sorry, Dalibor, I'm just one guy, and I've only posted to this board twice before, both under this name. My solution: the wall. Separation. Inside the wall, Israel exists, as a free and sovereign nation. Outside the wall, let the Palestinians do what they want. Let them declare themselves a sovereign nation. Let them re-merge with Jordan (and Gaza with Egypt). Let them slaughter each other. Let them paint themselves pink with purple polka-dots and call themselves "The Free Democratic Republic Of Hoogedyboogedystan." The only restriction: Any -- ANY attack on Israel will be met with instant, overwhelming force striking back. No more. Never again. The Palestinians have never kept a single agreement towards peace with Israel. The pattern over the decades has been thus: attack Israel -- Israel strikes back -- negotiate some compromises -- wait for Israel to keep a few promises it makes -- condemn Israel for not moving faster or going further -- blame Israel for the "breakdown in the peace process" -- attack Israel again. Notably missing from the above is "Palestinians keep some of their promises negotiated with Israel." They never have. While the world condemns Israel for "not doing more towards peace," the Palestinian Authority has yet to take a single step they promised to. In fact, after promising to crack down on "militants and terrorists," they said they wouldn't take any action against Hamas and the like because "it might trigger a civil war." This isn't just ranting and raving and digging up dirty laundry. One classic definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results." For the Israelis, negotiating with the Palestinians and making concessions has, every single time, resulted in more dead Israeli civilians. It's time to say to hell with negotiations, to hell with concessions, let them stew in their own juices for a few years, maybe decades. Maybe once they've been denied the chance to kill Israelis, the militants will start blowing each other up for a change. J.

Clintonite, I have to dispute this. There are mosques and churches within Israel. Hamas and Israel's neighbors explicitly forbid churches and synagogues in their territory. There are Arab and Muslim members of the Knesset (Israel's legislature). How many Moslem nations allow Jews to serve in their legislatures? (Trick question -- there aren't any Moslem legislatures, as in "democratically elected bodies of a constitutional republic that passes laws.") Now, as far as "letting them back on their own land," most of the land was actually purchased by Jews back in the 40's or earlier. A lot of the rest of the land was abandoned when the nations surrounding Israel told them "get out of the way while we drive the Jews into the sea, then you can move back." They're still waiting. According international law, land taken by the defending party in a war of aggression must be returned once the war is over and a treaty is signed. Most of Israel's neighbors are still technically at war with Israel. Egypt signed a treaty at Camp David, and was given back the Sinai. The other wars still technically consider to this day. And let's head off the example of the 1973 War. While it's true that Israel attacked first, they did so after Egypt declared a blockade of Israel's Port Said, their only port on the Red Sea. Blockades are acts of war -- see the Cuban Missile Crisis for a non-Middle East example. It beggars my mind Never before in recorded history has a nation been condemned for being the victim of a war of aggression (let alone 4) and punished for not surrendering territory it holds legally. Never before have aggressor states that lose wars had the (if you'll pardon the use of the word, but no other seems adequate) chutzpah to demand reparations from the side they attacked and lost to. And never before has so much of the world's general opinion been so bent on rewarding aggression and punishing successful self-defense. J. (Obscure trivia: Most everyone with a passing interest knows that 850,000 is a fairly accurate estimate of the refugees who fled Israel around it's founding. Far less well known is the number of Jews who fled Arab and Moslem nations to Israel around the same time. Ironically enough, it's about 850,000. And no one ever discusses reparations for the property they were forced to abandon... but then again, they decided they weren't going to BE victims and actually rebuilt their own lives, from the ground up.)

I think it's the height of racism to hear what a group is saying and not take them at their word. With that thought in mind, here are a few excerpts from the Hamas charter: The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)." Preamble. "Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. " Article 13. "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." Article 13. "Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam. Past and present history are the best witness to that. It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror." Article 31 "The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying." Article 32 Full Text: http://www.acpr.org.il/resources/hamascharter.html These are the words of Hamas. These are the words of the people who organize suicide bombers. These are the words who hide behind children while they fight(http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040211/481/jrl12302112014) (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040211/ids_photos_wl/r1566466835.jpg), who deliberately target such high-value military targets as buses, schools, weddings, pizza parlors, religious celebrations, and private homes. It is futile to "negotiate" with such people. "What, you say you want to shoot me? Let's compromise. Why don't you just stab me instead? Does that work for you?" Golda Meir once said that peace between Palestinians and Jews will only happen when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate the Jews. That was 50 years ago. How many more Palestinian children must die before their parents give up their hatred? And how many more Jewish children will they take with them? J.