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Gene Kelly

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About Gene Kelly

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  • Birthday 07/05/1950

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  1. Peter Gabriel ... "In Your Eyes": All my instincts, they return And the grand façade, so soon will burn Without a noise, without my pride I reach out from the inside In your eyes The light the heat In your eyes I am complete In your eyes I see the doorway to a thousand churches In your eyes The resolution of all the fruitless searches In your eyes I see the light and the heat In your eyes Oh, I want to be that complete I want to touch the light The heat I see in your eyes
  2. Actually, the Kimsey's "The Ends of a State" is essentially complimentary of JJA (although he uses academic language that I struggle to understand). He has this to say; I argue that, for a figure such as Angleton, disinformation and deception—supposed hallmarks of totalitarianism—are necessary if democracy, which Ransom compares to a beautiful poem, is to survive. Gene
  3. Thanks for the links, and Ill study them ... another interesting read is by DePaul University's John Kimsey (2017) “The Ends of a State: James Angleton, Counterintelligence and the New Criticism” in International Intrigue: Plotting Espionage as Cultural Artifact (although more about modernist poetry than judging the bona fides of defectors)
  4. Thanks Tommy: I'm still doing my due diligence in all of this. I don't pretend to have expertise in this area (as I presume you must have, given your confident grasp of the details) but I will read the Spy Wars references and continue to educate myself. It seemed to me that Heuer's 1987 essay came well after Hart had confronted Bagley in 1976 with what his objections were based upon ... and over 20 years after the Solie report. Critics of Spy Wars cite Bagley's reliance upon former KGB officers (unnamed) as his sources of information. It certainly caused quite a rift within the intelligence community and opinions are both strong and divided , even today. By the way, I'm a fan of peter Gabriel ... Gene
  5. Thomas: Have you read the 1987 article by Richards J. Heuer “Nosenko: Five Paths to Judgement" in Studies in Intelligence where he lays out strategies for analyzing deception? Gene
  6. How did Hosty expect to talk to Marina?

    Paul: God only knows ... seems to me that George (the Baron, not Bush) was being set up as another "patsy", and was ultimately sacrificed by Dulles. If I were the Judge/Jury, I'd arrest Dulles and his minions (including Bush Sr. who was up to his ears in bay of Pigs). Gaeton Fonzi noted that in late 1963, several large deposits popped up in de Mohrenschildt's Haitian bank account including one for $200 thousand dollars from a Bahamian bank. This occurred when de Mohrenschildt and Clemard Charles were supposedly running a sisal plantation, a derelict operation they never went near. This sort of intrigue is covered/obscured forever, and wont ever be unraveled (imho). Gene
  7. How did Hosty expect to talk to Marina?

    Joe: I revised this post to add some additional information. If you dig into the machinations going on in May 1963, it appears that a covert operation was being run in Haiti, and JFK was being kept in the dark and allegedly "played' by the CIA and his own national security advisor, McGeorge Bundy. In November 1976, DeMohrenschildt was committed to a mental institution in Texas for three months, and apparently he had four previous suicide attempts. In a notarized affidavit, his wife stated that George suffered from depression, heard voices, saw visions, and believed the FBI and 'Jewish Mafia' were persecuting him. In early 1977, Dutch journalist Willem Oltmans brought George to Europe to negotiate book and magazine rights to his story. Oltmans later claimed that DeMohrenschildt wandered off while in Brussels, and disappeared. In March 1977, de Mohrenschildt re-surfaced in the United States. As the story goes, on March 29th George visited his sister in law in Manalapan, Florida, where his daughter was staying (ostensibly the reason for his visit). While he was there, DeMohrenschildt agreed to conduct an interview with journalist Edward Epstein for a feature story to be published in Reader’s Digest. Epstein - suspect by many researchers as a close associate of James Angleton - embellished the legend of the Walker shooting and the celebrated backyard photograph of Oswald in his book “Legend” and his writings. The "third backyard photograph" was allegedly found by George in a piece of luggage which he had left in storage during his 1963-1967 sojourn in Haiti. The photo (with Cyrillic handwriting on the back and an inscription addressed to George) shows Oswald in a similar pose to that in WC exhibit CE 133A, but with both arms held higher. Epstein employed a handwriting expert who identified the inscription as Oswald's writing, and concluded the printing on reverse side was consistent with Marina's handwriting. This enabled a conclusion that De Mohrenschildt had been given this incriminating photograph before the assassination. His wife Jeanne later told the HSCA that she had never seen the photo before, and believed it was planted in their belongings while they were traveling in Haiti. Epstein wrote this about George’s death: The news came as a shock. I had been in the midst of a four- day interview with De Mohrenschildt, for which I had agreed to pay him a $4,000 "honorarium." I had never before paid anyone for an interview, but De Mohrenschildt had had an extraordinary relationship with the subject of my book, Lee Harvey Oswald. I had reason to believe that he might have been in a position to cast light on Oswald's prior entanglement in the web of intelligence services. He had been, as far as I was concerned, a man of considerable mystery. Even his date of birth—"1911," on one passport, "1914" on another— was in doubt. He had emigrated from Russia via various European countries to the United States in May 1938, and claimed such diverse occupations as insurance salesman, film producer, journalist and textile salesman. In addition, British intelligence suggested that he may have been working for German intelligence. On the day of George’s death, HSCA investigator Gaeton Fonzi had called and left his card – because de Mohrenschildt was apparently ready to talk. After George's untimely (and inexplicable) suicide, Epstein flew out of Palm Beach before Fonzi could locate or question him. Fonzi had this to say about the suicide death: Certainly, it seems that his death was the work of those who wanted to prevent him from telling what he knew. The House Committee was getting started again. He was being asked, I believe, to begin another role in his relationship to the assassination and his testimony before the Warren Commission. Just before he committed suicide, he was taken to Belgium by a foreign journalist. He was, I believe he felt he was, being set up. He was supposed to have a meeting with a KGB official, I believe, but he ran away. He came back to Florida. He believed he was being set up to make it appear that there was a link between him and the KGB ... and then obviously a link between Oswald and the KGB, because of his link to the KGB. And then, Epstein shows up ... and spends a whole afternoon with him at a hotel in Palm Beach. While the HSCA investigation was ongoing, Angleton manipulated several episodes that seemed to extend a cover-up of his own connections with Oswald. The first concerns the creation of the book "Legend" by Epstein, written at the time of the HSCA inquiry, which serves to confuse the public about who Oswald really was, and to portray him as a Russian agent being controlled by deMohrenschildt. At the same time, George was being hounded by Dutch journalist Willem Oltmans to "confess" his role in the assassination ... which he refused to do. In George’s absence after his death, Oltmans came forward with the sensational allegation that de Mohrenschildt had admitted serving as a middleman between Oswald and a plot involving Texas oilmen, anti-Castro Cubans, and elements of the FBI/CIA. As an aside, none of these intrigues and obvious disinformation schemes could have been orchestrated by the Mafia, Cuban intelligence or the Radical Right. Gene
  8. How did Hosty expect to talk to Marina?

    Joe: If you dig into the machinations going on in May 1963, it appears that a covert operation was being run in Haiti, and JFK was being kept in the dark and allegedly "played' by the CIA and his own national security advisor, McGeorge Bundy. In November 1976, DeMohrenschildt was committed to a mental institution in Texas for three months, and a notarized affidavit (by his wife) lists four previous suicide attempts. In the affidavit she stated that George suffered from depression, heard voices, saw visions, and believed that the FBI and the 'Jewish Mafia' were persecuting him. In early 1977, Dutch journalist Willem Oltmans brought George to Europe to negotiate book and magazine rights to his story. Oltmans later claimed that DeMohrenschildt wandered off while in Brussels, and disappeared. In March 1977, de Mohrenschildt re-surfaced in the United States. As the story goes, on March 29th George visited his sister in law in Manalapan, Florida, where his daughter was staying (the reason for his visit). While he was there, George agreed to conduct an interview with journalist Edward Epstein for a feature story to be published in Reader’s Digest. Epstein - suspect by many researchers as a close associate of James Angleton - propagates and embellishes the legend of the Walker shooting and the celebrated backyard photograph of Oswald in his writings. The "third backyard photograph" was allegedly found by George in a piece of luggage which he had left in storage during his 1963-1967 absence in Haiti. The photograph (with Cyrillic handwriting on the back and an inscription addressed to George) shows Oswald in a similar pose to that in WC exhibit CE 133A, but with both arms held higher. Epstein employed a handwriting expert who identified the inscription as Oswald's writing, and concluded the printing on reverse side was consistent with Marina's handwriting. This enabled a conclusion that De Mohrenschildt had been given this incriminating photograph before the assassination. His wife Jeanne later told the HSCA that she had never seen the photo before, and believed it was planted in their belongings while they were traveling in Haiti. Epstein wrote about George’s death: The news came as a shock. I had been in the midst of a four- day interview with De Mohrenschildt, for which I had agreed to pay him a $4,000 "honorarium." I had never before paid anyone for an interview, but De Mohrenschildt had had an extraordinary relationship with the subject of my book, Lee Harvey Oswald. I had reason to believe that he might have been in a position to cast light on Oswald's prior entanglement in the web of intelligence services. He had been, as far as I was concerned, a man of considerable mystery. Even his date of birth—"1911," on one passport, "1914" on another— was in doubt. He had emigrated from Russia via various European countries to the United States in May 1938, and claimed such diverse occupations as insurance salesman, film producer, journalist and textile salesman. In addition, British intelligence suggested that he may have been working for German intelligence. On the day of George’s death, HSCA investigator Gaeton Fonzi had called and left his card – because de Mohrenschildt was apparently ready to talk. After George's untimely (and inexplicable) suicide, Epstein flew out of Palm Beach before Fonzi could locate or question him. Fonzi had this to say about the suicide death: On the day of George’s death, Gaeton Fonzi had called and left his card – because de Mohrenschildt was apparently ready to talk. Fonzi had this to say about the suicide death: Certainly, it seems that his death was the work of those who wanted to prevent him from telling what he knew. The House Committee was getting started again. He was being asked, I believe, to begin another role in his relationship to the assassination and his testimony before the Warren Commission. Just before he committed suicide, he was taken to Belgium by a foreign journalist. He was, I believe he felt he was, being set up. He was supposed to have a meeting with a KGB official, I believe, but he ran away. He came back to Florida. He believed he was being set up to make it appear that there was a link between him and the KGB ... and then obviously a link between Oswald and the KGB, because of his link to the KGB. And then, Epstein shows up ... and once again, spends a whole afternoon with him at a hotel in Palm Beach. While the HSCA investigation was ongoing, Angleton manipulated several episodes that seemed to extend the cover-up of his own connections with Oswald. The first concerns the creation of the book "Legend" by Epstein. Written exactly at the time of the HSCA inquiry, this book serves to confuse the public about who Oswald really was, and to portray him as a Russian agent being controlled by deMohrenschildt. At the same time, George was being hounded by Dutch journalist Willem Oltmans to "confess" his role in the assassination ... which he refused to do. In George’s absence after his death, Oltmans came forward with the sensational allegation that de Mohrenschildt had admitted serving as a middleman between Oswald and a plot involving Texas oilmen, anti-Castro Cubans, and elements of the FBI/CIA. Gene
  9. How did Hosty expect to talk to Marina?

    DeMohrenschildt’s previous wife in Philadelphia, Phyllis Washington, worked for Radio Free Europe in the early fifties. His brother Dimitri von Mohrenschildt, described by the CIA as being "employed in a confidential capacity by the U.S. government," is said to have been one of the founders of Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty. These connections are a link between Cord Meyer and de Mohrenschildt (Ref. William Kelly 2011). He was subjected to five separate investigations by intelligence during the 1940s and 50s, and could not gain security clearance for OSS work. After the United States entered the war, George Von Mohrenschildet (and apparently his brother) changed their names to de Mohrenschildt, so they would not be viewed as German. De Mohrenschildt had previous experience as a CIA contact for a New York lawyer named Herbert Itkin, knee-deep in anti-Duvalier politics ... he had been introduced to Itkin by none other than Allen Dulles. In 1954, a young oil lawyer named Herbert Itkin arranged a meeting in Philadelphia with Allen Dulles. Dulles set him up with a meeting with de Mohrenschildt, who told Itkin he was "from that man in Philadelphia" and that his name was Philip Harbin. William Gaudet provided an HSCA deposition that he knew George under his alias as Philip Harbin (De Mohrenschildt's wife, Jeanne, was from Harbin, China). CIA Director Richard Helms later testified that the agency’s “initial interest” in George de Mohrenschildt was because he had been a petrochemical consultant with the ICA, which became part of the Agency for International Development (AID) in 1961. In the early 1960’s, de Mohrenschildt was part of Clint Murchison’s interests in Haiti, and became involved in oil transactions with the dictator Papa Doc Duvalier. A former CIA agent, Herbert Atkin, revealed that Mohrenschildt’s activities in Haiti were actually a cover for his intelligence-gathering operation for the CIA’s attempt to overthrow Duvalier. In May of 1963, he arranged a meeting between Clemard Charles, who grew hemp in Haiti, and Army Intelligence. In 1967, Charles was later connected with a CIA/Haitian Cuban Exile plot to invade Haiti from Florida, a sequel of sorts to the Bay of Pigs. In May 1963, an order was issued for the Ambassador of Haiti to be recalled to Washington, D.C. Just two days after the meeting, an unnamed “charge” is sent to Haiti, purportedly to attend Duvalier's self-coronation. Just four days later (one month to the day after the phony staged attempted "kidnapping" of Duvalier's children), Ambassador to Haiti Thurston is recalled to Washington for "consultation," leaving the U.S. Embassy in Haiti in control of the Charge d'Affaires (Thurston was not returned to Haiti). And just four days after that, DeMohrenschildt arrived in Dallas, hastily packed up his belongings, and tore off to Haiti, arriving on Sunday, 2 June 1963. The U.S. Embassy in Haiti now was in control of the unknown Charge d'Affaires. When de Mohrenschildt moved to Haiti, he remained there for over four years. He and other investors had set up an industrial development enterprise whose work was to include conducting a geological survey of Haiti to plot out oil and geological resources on the island. After the assassination, he returned to The de Mohrenschildt’s later left Haiti in 1967 and returned to Dallas four years after the assassination, to testify before the Warren Commission. HSCA investigator Gaeton Fonzi noted that in late 1963, several large deposits popped up in de Mohrenschildt's Haitian bank account including one for $200 thousand dollars from a Bahamian bank. This occurred when de Mohrenschildt and one Clemard Joseph Charles, proprietor of the first independent commercial bank in Haiti were supposedly running a sisal plantation, a derelict operation they never went near. In author Dick Russell’s words: “Like Fitzgerald's Gatsby, Baron George Sergei de Mohrenschildt was borne back ceaselessly into the past’. Intrigue and oil were the two constants in the Baron's life. He was an emigrant son of the Czarist nobility who spoke five languages fluently and who, during the Second World War, was rumored to have spied for the French, Germans, Soviets and Latin Americans. The Warren Commission took 118 pages of his testimony to satisfy itself of de Mohrenschildt's benign intent. De Mohrenschildt moved in both European high society and the American underworld, and would have made a splendid character in a Graham Greene novel.
  10. Getting to the bottom of this is ... like pulling teeth (sorry, couldn't resist)
  11. How did Hosty expect to talk to Marina?

    Steve: I appreciate your feedback, but would admit that I actually know very little about either Marina or James Hosty. What little I can find out about James Hosty leads me to believe he didn't much subscribe to anything beyond the storyline published in the Warren Report. Perhaps he was being loyal to his Agency (in spite of his disciplinary treatment) and not wanting to rock the boat. Marina is an entirely different subject for discussion and speculation. Its interesting that, in Agent Fain's September 1961 FBI report, he refers to Marina as an "orphan" and also cites her occupation as "nurse". After consideration of the 2007-2008 books by the Romanian and Czech authors - Ion Mihai Pacepa, “Programmed to Kill: Lee Harvey Oswald, the Soviet KGB, and the Kennedy Assassination” and Ludvík Zifčák, "We Killed Kennedy" - it got me thinking more broadly. These books do seem to have the flavor of disinformation about them. However, what if (for discussion purposes) Marina was KGB ... and this is a counterintelligence chess game (with Angleton and Company pulling the strings) where the real "patsy" was Marina? Her affiliation with the assassin makes the Soviets and KGB (e.g. Comrade Kostin) look complicit. No wonder they would send false defectors like Nosenko to debunk that notion. Gene PS. Hosty visiting Marina (whom "they" know speaks fluent English) would then make more sense ... which is the original topic of this thread
  12. How did Hosty expect to talk to Marina?

    Paul: I would point you to the Forum thread “Programmed to Kill: Lee Harvey Oswald, the Soviet KGB, and the Kennedy Assassination”, started by John Simkin in February 2011. That thread points to several books, one in 2007 by Ion Mihai Pacepa, “Programmed to Kill” and another in 2008 by Ludvík Zifčák, "We Killed Kennedy". A review performed by Robert Buchar calls out the reference (on page 157 of the Zifcak book) to the allegation that Marina's stated jobs in health care (hospital, pharmacy) were a cover, and that she was an office clerk in the GRU. Regards, Gene
  13. How did Hosty expect to talk to Marina?

    Steve: I'm not sure how the FBI would have an accurate count of Soviet spouses allowed to defect to the West. As Marina's legend goes, her father had been killed in the war and she lived with her stepfather and mother in Archangel, in the far north of Russia. She then moved to Moldova as a small child and then to Leningrad at age 12. Her Mother, Klavdia, died in 1957 and she moved to Minsk to live with her Uncle Ilya (and his wife Valya), a colonel in the MVD, the Soviet Interior Ministry security service. The notion of no father or mother invokes the imaginative portrait of an orphan being crafted into a deep-cover sleeper agent (and parallels that of Lee Harvey himself). Her testimony over the years contains contradictions and inconsistencies (e.g. she entered a pharmacy school - Pharmacy Technikum - for what the Warren Report later characterized “special training” when she was 14 years old). According to certain authors, Young Marina Prusakova's job in the health sector was a cover; she was actually a personal office clerk in the GRU. Marina is said to have associated with diplomats and high government bureaucrats in Leningrad, and her "clientele" allegedly was foreigners (she would later vaguely admit to being raped by an Afghan ambassador). The CIA purportedly wrote a 29-point report suspecting her of being an intelligence agent. At the beginning of the ARRB (during the 30th anniversary of the assassination), Marina was briefly open to discussion about her early Leningrad experiences. She was somehow involved with the LaFontaine’s and their 1996 book, "Oswald Talked". She also appeared on Oprah and refuted her original testimony about the rifle (she has since refused to make appearances). The INS in Dallas, Texas, have a file (A12530645) on Marina Nikolaevna Oswald, nee Prusakova. Gene
  14. How did Hosty expect to talk to Marina?

    Interview of Former Special Agent James P. Hosty (1952 – 1979) by Jack O’Flaherty, Society of Former Special Agents of the FBI, on March 8, 2006: We had an investigation on her under the SOBIR Program, that’s the Soviet Bloc Immigrants and Repatriates Program. They had information, good information from informants, defectors that the Soviets were going to infiltrate the United States with immigrants and repatriates to build up an illegal network of espionage in the event that the diplomatic immunity was taken away from the Embassy people and they could no longer operate. Then they would have a network in this country. There were certain criteria; they had to be within a certain age limit, had to have a certain educational limit and come from Soviet Bloc countries. Marina fit the category perfectly. She was the only the third known Soviet spouse allowed to leave the Soviet Union with their non-Soviet spouse and go to the west. It turns out, we didn’t have it at the time, but as the investigation continued it turned out that Marina’s uncle, the man who raised her, she was an orphan, was raised by her uncle and aunt, her mother’s brother was a MVD Colonel, a full colonel in the MVD in the Gulag section of the prison section. Also, she was a registered pharmacist or the equivalent, the Russian equivalent of a pharmacist so she was not an ignorant little peasant girl as the press tried to pretend she was. You know, the sweet little girl. She was one tough cookie. I interviewed her after the assassination and believe me she isn’t what people think she was. I’m not saying that she was involved. I don’t think she was involved in the assassination of Kennedy but we were looking at her for other reasons.
  15. How did Hosty expect to talk to Marina?

    Interesting remarks from James Hosty's testimony to the Warren Commission: Mr. STERN. When Mrs. Paine told you that Lee Harvey Oswald was working at the School Book Depository, did that mean anything to you? Did you remember the building? Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; I knew of the building in the outskirts of the downtown area. That is about all. I looked up the address, and I recognized the address, but it meant nothing to me. Mr. STERN. Is there anything else at all that you can recall being said on November 1? Mr. HOSTY. As I said earlier, I think I should bring this in, that Mrs. Paine was a little bit reluctant to give me his place of employment at first. She said that Lee Oswald had alleged that the FBI had had him fired from every job he ever had. I told her this was not true, that I had never had anyone fired from any job nor did I know of any other FBI agents that had ever done this. I reassured her that I wanted to know his place of employment for the Purpose of determining whether or not he was employed in a sensitive industry, and when I found out that he was working in a warehouse as a laborer, I realized this was not a sensitive industry.
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