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Gene Kelly

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About Gene Kelly

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  • Birthday 07/05/1950

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  1. The Witt story doesn't pass the "Bozo test". He is not interviewed, nor does he come forward for many years, until HSCA ... but he is the closest human witness to the most controversial event of the century? It simply feels wrong and is not credible. The symbolic nature of Appeasement is a rationalization ... nice try, but its isolated and odd. Where are other similar protesters? Where are all of the other umbrellas? For the record, type casting people as liberal or conservative, conspiracist or lone-nut, pro-choice or right to life -- even Democrat or Republican -- is a old school. Its not a simple question of one or the other anymore. Free thinking adults are more sophisticated and complex than that. Its insulting, childish name-calling, and a provocation tactic.
  2. Tom Joseph McBride's book is certainly worth reading ... a bit long and quite detailed. But thought provoking. Gene
  3. We should all fold up tent and go home, right? Its all about conspiracy theorists, and their flawed logic. And obviously, you are an expert in quantum mechanics. The guy with the umbrella was Witt, he had a simple reason for what he did, and we should all get over it ... nothing suspicious. I know I'll regret pushing back and stating this, but you protest way too much: Conspiracy theorists have essentially formalized the tendency to assume agency, deliberateness, and sinister motivations in the quirky details of events. Conspiracy theories are often an exercise in anomaly hunting. When anomalies, like the Umbrella Man, are inevitably found it is assumed that they are evidence for a conspiracy. This is, of course, precisely where Conspiracy Land begins. Better to just engage in dark speculation about who this seemingly ordinary cluck might have been. BTW, do conspiracy participants typically sit back down on the grass and then wander over toward the TSBD, as Witt did? The fallacy is in confusing a priori probability with posterior probability ... Your diatribe convinces me there's more to this than meets the eye ... God (and you) only knows what it was.
  4. Tom Nice to see you back. Id only be speculating if I said that Westbrook had personal reasons for using Tippit. My logic would be that Westbrook had access to all personnel files, so he knew who could be manipulated or used, and what personal details could be exploited. It seems that "they" (Westbrook and above) used Tippit. I have always been drawn to the Tippit story, and especially Captain Westbrook. We just known precious little about with of them. Given Joseph McBride's excellent work pursuing this story (for many years), and digging deep, Id think he would have the best sense and intuition for Tippit of all. Sylvia Meagher described Tippit as "unknown and unknowable". It seems that Westbrook has a similar barrier constructed around his Character and background. Joseph McBride suggested that Tippit could have been a shooter, and that his father described him as a skilled marksman. When McBride looked at Tippit's DPD files, the further he perused Tippit’s personnel file, the more sparse the material became – the opposite of what you would expect - suggesting that it was sanitized. A policeman who served for 11 years should have more than one firing skill evaluation yet, after about 1956, his file became thinner and thinner. Guess who controlled the personnel files at DPD? One thing is for sure, which has always struck me as a master stroke of the plot ... Tippit’s shooting served as a pretext for a large influx policemen and other law enforcement officials into the Oak Cliff location and to the Texas Theater. Given the characterization of the DPD in the 1960's (i.e. The Thin Blue Line and Henry Wade's lawless reputation), it wouldn't take much convincing to convict and execute Tippit's killer ... and tying Oswald to the scene almost guaranteed his subsequent (and immediate) death. The only question is whether that death was supposed to happen in the theater (by the police), some other location (e.g. on the way to Cuba) or in police custody at the Police and Courts Building, the gray stone structure in downtown Dallas that housed the headquarters of the Dallas Police Department and the city jail. But the one thing in common is ... facilitated by the police. Larry Ray Harris did a lot of early work on the Tippit case, and called it “The Other Murder". McBride points out that the convenient cover stories about a single “lone nut” responsible for killing both men (JFK and Tippit) were powerful psychological and public-relations maneuvers ... allowing many to believe a false story, and accept a reality that otherwise would seem truly intolerable. Tippit researcher Greg Lowrey commented on the frustration of studying the assassination and the Tippit killing: " ... some of the story remains tantalizingly unknown or unknowable, that we lack some of the necessary information to draw connections that may be crucial between these people and the milieu we know they inhabited. Lowrey said of Tippit, “I think he got himself involved with some real dangerous people in circumstances I don’t understand. I can’t even explain it. He might have had some dangerous knowledge.” Lowrey also speculated that Tippit may have “blundered” into that knowledge." But in retrospect, Westbrook was at 10th and Patton awfully quickly - strange when you consider his rank, function, and that a president had been shot a few miles away - and controlling just about everything used to incriminate Oswald (including Patrolman Tippit). Joseph McBride shows that the uncomplicated public image image of Tippit - who worked part time at Austin's Barbecue and the Texas Theater - is not accurate, and that he could have been financially entice or blackmailed into "hunting" Oswald (or worse): "It is worth noting that the humble Oak Cliff rib joint where he worked, Austin’s Barbecue, was not only a rowdy teenage hangout on weekends, necessitating the presence of an off-duty policeman as a security guard, but that it was run by a Bircher and was a prominent meeting place for corrupt “police characters,” mobsters, and leading far-right elements in the “City of Hate.” It is conceivable that some in that interconnecting milieu could have become aware of Tippit because he was so visible in his uniform for three years at Austin’s Barbecue. Conspirators could have realized he was financially vulnerable, since after working his fulltime job as a police officer during the daytime, he was keeping order at Austin’s from ten at night until two in the morning on Fridays and Saturdays for about ten dollars an hour while struggling to pay the mortgages on two houses (not to mention his other job as a security guard at the Stevens Park Theater). Gene
  5. His son Ralph didn't seem to know much about his father's involvement in the Tippit murder and Oswald arrest. Nor was their any resolution to the allegation that Westbrook was a member of the 488th reserve. Westbrook did divorce his wife, and then remarried and got back together in 1994 (two years before he passed away). He did testify before both the Warren Commission and the HSCA, but never mentioned the wallet. For someone so central to the Tippit murder scene and DPD apprehension of Oswald, there is precious little known about Captain Westbrook. Its strange (and stands out) ... in contrast, we know far more about the peripheral players and personalities.
  6. The theatrical nature of the Tippit narrative has always been of great interest to me ... more so than the intricacies of Dealey Plaza, potential shooters, the autopsy, or any other aspect of the entire assassination saga. Unlike all of those other subplots, the Tippit story reveals quite a lot about the plot (and plotters). Westbrook and Hill stand out like a sore thumb ... they are quick to arrive at each prominent scene - Book Depository, 10th and Patton, and the Texas Theater - and quick to leave, but have no functional or investigatory reason to be there. Tippit's murder near Oswald's rooming house is a staged scene, where we get our first glimpse of an imposter acting the part of Oswald - a second Oswald. The one for whom Westbrook suppressed a list of 24 theater patrons, protecting the imposter (Lee) in the balcony. Westbrook - the plainclothes head of the DPD Personnel Department - then arrests Harvey (the patsy) and manages all of the evidence. It does surprise me that they would sacrifice a fellow policeman but, given Westbrook's HR job and access to personnel files, he must have selected Tippit for special (personal) reasons. It's always stuck me as clever to insert a cop killing into the aftermath of the assassination; as Jim Garrison first pointed out in his February 1967 Playboy interview, killing a policeman energizes the entire police force: "... the conspirators arranged the murder of Dallas Patrolman J. D. Tippit in a scheme "to get rid of the decoy in the case, Lee Oswald." The Warren report held that Oswald also killed the policeman. So that Oswald would not later describe the people involved in this, they had what I think was a rather clever plan. It's well known that police officers react violently to the murder of a police officer." In the Tippit story and Texas Theater drama, we see contemporaneous evidence of the Harvey/Lee gambit. Jim Garrison was also on to the second Oswald: I hesitate to use the words “second Oswald,” because they tend to lend an additional fictional quality to a case that already makes Dr. No and Goldfinger look like auditors’ reports. However, it is true that before the assassination, a calculated effort was made to implicate Oswald in the events to come. A young man approximating Oswald’s description and using Oswald’s name — we believe we have discovered his identity — engaged in a variety of activities designed to create such a strong impression of Oswald’s instability and culpability in people’s minds that they would recall him as a suspicious character after the President was murdered. More to the point, it has also struck me odd that "Oswald" was apprehended so quickly, in record time - within little more than an hour after the assassination - the crime of the century, solved in just one hour! Lee kills Tippit, incriminates Harvey with evidence strewn all over the neighborhood, proceeds to the Texas Theater where he makes himself conspicuous in a shoe store and the theater lobby, and then heads up to the balcony. The arrest has its origins with ticket cashier Julia Postal’s phone call to the DPD, after shoe salesman Johnny Brewer told her to call the police because a mysterious patron didn’t pay for a ticket ... one who allegedly fit a generic (contentious) description. At least thirty police officers in a fleet of patrol cars then descend on the theatre, a remarkable show of force for someone who didn't pay for a 75-cent ticket. Here is an excerpt of Ms. Postal's testimony: "I told Johnny [brewer] about the fact that the President had been assassinated. "I don't know if this is the man they want," I said, "in there, but he is running from them for some reason," and I said "I am going to call the police, and you and Butch go get on each of the exit doors and stay there." So, well, I called the police, and he wanted to know why I thought it was their man, and I said, "Well, I didn't know," and he said, "Well, it fits the description," and I have not---I said I hadn't heard the description. All I know is, this man is running from them for some reason. And he wanted to know why, and told him because every time the sirens go by he would duck and he wanted to know----well, if he fits the description is what he says. I said, "Let me tell you what he looks like and you take it from there." And explained that he had on this brown sports shirt and I couldn't tell you what design it was, and medium height, ruddy looking to me, and he said, "Thank you," and I called the operator and he wanted to know if I wanted him to cut the picture off, and I says, "No, let's wait until they get here." So, seemed like I hung up the intercom phone when here all of a sudden, police cars, policemen, plainclothesmen, I never saw so many people in my life. The Oswald look-alike (Lee) is then apprehended in the balcony after Harvey is brought out to Westbrook's unmarked car in front of the theatre. During an interview with author Ian Griggs in 1996, Brewer claimed that on the day of the assassination (when he observed Oswald duck into the lobby of his shoe store) there were two men "from IBM" in the store with him. Others have suggested that their surreptitious purpose was to get Brewer to summon police to the theater, to ensure Harvey's arrest (or murder). Author James Douglass later tracked down Warren “Butch” Burroughs who was working the concession stand inside the Texas Theatre. Burroughs stated that he saw Oswald enter the theatre between 1:00 pm and 1:07 pm, and that he sold him popcorn at 1:15 pm ... the exact time that Tippit was allegedly shot by "Oswald". Burroughs and Postal both had jobs that require knowledge of precise times, more so than other casual observers ... so there is at the least a timing issue here. The Tippit rigmarole reveals itself as a Broadway play or 'B' movie. In their essay "Looking at the Tippit Case from a Different Angle", Swedish writers Staffan Westerberg and Pete Engwall state that all of this had to be a deception ... the plotters had to create the image of a fleeing killer, and so they set up police officer to be ambushed. Tippit is vectored to Oak Cliff - which was not his regular patrol area - but a neighborhood connected to Oswald. There "Oswald" (or Lee) is briefly and infamously seen by his landlady Earlene Roberts ... a story etched in the stone of an official (but fictional) account. Obviously, an innocent man would have no need to change clothes and get a weapon (switching from a rifle to a revolver) ... and in order to become Tippit's murderer, "Oswald" had to have a revolver. In the parallel universe of this improbable narrative, Butch Burroughs sells Harvey a theater ticket (a double feature was playing that day, and “War is Hell” started at 1:20pm). As the more credible story goes, Harvey receives his instructions from the driver of a Rambler who picked him up at the TSBD and drove him to the theater, where he went inside to meet his contact (a pregnant woman, who sat with him for a while, and would later disappear). As an aside, why would a pregnant woman want to see “War is Hell” or "Cry of Battle" on a Friday afternoon when the President’s motorcade is passing by? There's a dramatic touch (perhaps even an intentional mocking) to the ending of this theatrical production, in that it climaxes in a theater. Westerberg and Engwall point out that the early evidence against "Oswald" would not otherwise present itself fast enough - an inventory head count of TSBD employees, a ticket cashiers phone call – so the plotters needed another murder "to muddy the water". The logic becomes clear when the President is killed outside of Oswald’s work place and then a police officer is killed close to his home ... timed so that the picture of an escapee emerges. The temptation to accept this entire line of thinking is classic disinformation, and the Swedish authors pull the fuller story into focus by suggesting that Tippit was guided into an ambush on 10th Street with the help of Collins Radio or perhaps the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment, with its radio central in the Dallas Civil Defense Emergency Operation Center in Fair Park. Here we see the tentacles of Jack Crichton, an associate of George Bush, both of whom are associated with and recruited for Operation 40 (present in Dealey Plaza). Many members of Crichton’s 488th group worked in the Dallas Police Department. We also see the shadow of Collins Radio when a Dallas reporter with the local FBI put a trace on the license plate number of the red Ford Falcon (with Lee in the seat) ... and come to find its owner (Carl Mathers) is a Collins Radio employee and a friend of JD Tippit. This storyline points in so many directions, reflecting Winston Churchill's famous statement on deception and subterfuge: "In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies." Perhaps we need to employ the Six Degrees of Separation concept, where sooner or later, Kevin Bacon will emerge in the Tippit story ... Gene
  7. Steve: Westbrook is interesting. He was with DPD for many years (starting in 1940, at age 22) and rose to the rank of Captain by 1963. He left DPD in 1965 and spends 4-5 years in Saigon with the US AID. Following the assassination, he remained with DPD for about two years (perhaps to see the Warren Commission through) and then "retired" and went overseas to get away from the limelight and out of the country, when he was still relatively unknown as far as suspects in the plot and assassination go. I think this was done with many of the players and participants (e.g. Morales, Hunt) to take them out of sight/out of mind as far as any serious investigation is concerned. His name never really surfaces publicly until this second wallet became prominent more than 30 years later. The story of the wallet at the Tippit murder scene did not become public knowledge until 1996 (33 years later), when FBI agent James Hosty, revealed that a wallet containing identification for both Oswald and “Alek Hidell” was found near a pool of Tippit's blood. However, no witness ever saw the wallet on the ground, and a second witness, patrolman Leonard Jez, revealed at a conference in 1999 that the wallet was identified at the murder scene as belonging to Oswald. Had Westbrook not been captured on a television footage at the Tippit scene with the phantom wallet, we may never have focused any attention upon him. Its no coincidence that that Dale Myers book With Malice was published shortly thereafter, in 1998 ... as a counterattack to this damaging new information. Michael T. Griffith (2002), Joseph McBride (February 2014, Kennedys and King) and others have put the Meyers book - in effect, the Warren Report of the Tippit murder - in perspective. Meyers book was conveniently revised for the publication of a second edition at the 50th anniversary of the assassination in October 2013. As Joe McBride points out, the book's title gives away its agenda. For many years, the "official" story remained that Oswald's wallet was not found until about an hour after the Tippit murder, when Dallas police detective Paul Bentley removed it from Oswald's back pocket after being apprehended at the Texas Theatre. FBI agent Robert Barrett (who was at the scene of Tippit’s murder along with Westbrook) later disputed the Bentley story ... but much later. That drop-wallet contained what is the only known instance of Oswald carrying identification under the alias of “Alek Hidell” ... a sobering point. Nonetheless, by the next day, it was worldwide news that the assassination rifle was purchased by mail order made out by “A. Hidell” and listing Oswald’s post office box for pick up. The second wallet conveniently tied Oswald and “Hidell” to the rifle and Tippit's murder, less than two hours after the event. Barrett later stated (for the record) that the wallet made the case against Oswald a 'slam dunk' however, the DPD never wrote a report about any wallet found at the Tippit murder scene. Westbrook was subsequently put in charge of investigating how Jack Ruby was able to kill Oswald, when one of the officers helping hide Ruby's body in the basement before the shooting was Kenneth Croy, the same guy who came up with the wallet at the crime scene. An April 2014 Bill Simpich post on Jeff Morley's JFK Facts website pulls this smoke and mirrors altogether. Barrett's rebuttal of Officer Bentley - the Dallas officer who brought Oswald to the police station - is 50 years after the fact. Barrett claimed that Officer Bentley was lying about finding the wallet in Oswald’s possession, in a November 2013 WFAA news story. Simpich suggests that Barrett waited this long because "it was not a fight he cared to pick", and Bentley only recently died in 2008. It seems that Oswald owned many wallets ... but the one planted at the Tippit scene introduces the Hidell 'poison pill' and conveniently frames Oswald for everything. Obviously, the wallet in question was prepared in advance of Tippit’s killing, also implying that his murder was pre-planned. Simpich wrote about Westbrook and his specially assigned partner (a month before the assassination) Gerry Hill: Hill is not trustworthy to me at all and neither is Westbrook, but it gets a little bit worse because at 5:00, 5:30 Jerry Hill gets on national television. He's the guy who proceeds ... And he's good at telling the story. He was a trained TV reporter, right? He tells the entire story of Lee Harvey Oswald in the Soviet Union as a defector and then marrying this lady, Marina, a Russian woman from Minsk. Now he's telling this to the entire world. This guy's just a beat officer working in personnel. Somebody asks "Jerry, how in the world did you get all that information?" He's miles ahead of ABC and NBC and CBS. He's like "Oh, I got it all from Westbrook." He's just changed the course of history by telling the world the background of the assassin, the background that major news agencies still were trying to catch up on. Westbrook was in Saigon and Vietnam at the height of Operation Phoenix. Westbrook returned to Dallas - after RFK was murdered and the Vietnam War winding down - to work on Wade's staff from 1970-1983. He died in 1996 in Oklahoma. As I stated in an earlier post, you cant find very much about William R. Westbrook in searches ... as one researcher put it, its as though he didn't exist. A true spook. Gene
  8. Westbrook is clearly a person of interest. Why would a personnel officer - one who conducts background investigations, vets Police Academy recruits, and investigates personnel complaints - be at a crime scene? We are led to believe that Westbrook sent officers from his Personnel Research Bureau to the Texas School Book Depository immediately after the assassination. He then shows up at the Tippit scene (in civilian clothes), after allegedly walking to the Book Depository to "help start the search". His whereabouts for the next hour are mighty intriguing, to say the least, yet he didn’t have much to say subsequently to the Warren Commission, and they didn’t have much interest in putting him on the record. Oswald was arrested and placed in the back seat of Captain Westbrook's unmarked police car at the Texas Theatre. Westbrook controlled all of the important evidence ... the light-colored jacket, the 2nd Oswald wallet, and the .38 caliber revolver. It’s difficult to believe an escaping assassin would carelessly leave all of that evidence in his path, particularly after shooting a police officer. The wallet comes out of nowhere, into Croy's hands and then to Westbrook ... where it then disappears from the record. Nonetheless, this illusive wallet links the identity of Oswald with the Hidell alias ...and ties the Tippit crime scene and the Carcano rifle. Oswald and Hidell were then infamously (and forever) tied together by the rifle and the wallet. Westbrook drove his unmarked police car from the Texaco parking lot to the Texas Theater (where it was parked out front) accompanied by a DPD Sergeant and a news reporter ... yet he lied about this to the Warren Commission, and did everything he could to distance himself from the evidence and Tippit’s murder. The proximity of Captain Westbrook (and his subordinate Gerry Hill) to all of this drama is a coincidence that's hard to ignore. Westbrook's ruddy complexion earned him the nickname "Pinky" from his fellow officers. The Arkansas native moved to Dallas in 1937 and joined the DPD in 1940. Westbrook retired from DPD in 1966 after 25 years on the force. Researcher Jones Harris wrote that when Westbrook left the Dallas police in 1966, he went to work overseas at the Office of Public Safety, an agency that worked at the liaison between the CIA and the South Vietnamese police forces. Information in the 1998 Larry Sneed book "No More Silence" indicates that Westbrook worked for the United States Agency for International Development (i.e. CIA). Westbrook died at age 78 of cancer in Tahlequah. He was with the Dallas Police Department from 1940 to 1965, and also worked as a special investigator for the Dallas County district attorney's office from 1970 to 1983. His wife, Anna Fern Westbrook, said he liked his job but he did not talk about it to his family. Not much information exists for William Ralph Westbrook on Google search ... it's almost as if he didn't exist.
  9. Jim/Michael The more that I study Angleton, the more I believe he was not loyal to either the CIA or US interests. I would not be surprised - if (and when) we reach full knowledge of this byzantine JFK story - that he was in cahoots somehow with Kim Philby, subverting the CIA at every turn (e.g. Golitsyn/Nosenko), and more aligned with Israel and Mossad than we could imagine. I look forward to the release of the Lisa Pease book on RFK. Having studied Robert Kennedy's murder, there are legitimate suspects like Michael Wayne (real name Wien), Khaibar Khan and Maryam Koucham who point towards foreign intelligence involvement. This could explain the RFK autopsy pictures in Angleton's safe. Then there is the Turner and Christian book about RFK's murder, initially suppressed after its original 1978 publication, but updated and reissued in 1993 thanks to Oliver Stone's film. The back story (laid out in Kennedy's and King) was a Random House ownership change, where Robert Loomis (married to Angleton's secretary) took control and removed the book from publication, including the incineration of copies, to "make space". Perhaps Angleton was covering his tracks and protecting his foreign intelligence benefactors. I'm also struck by the suspicious death of William Colby is 1996 ... whose "nemesis" at CIA was James Angleton (whom he had fired). Colby was considered "hostile" to Israel's interests, and opposed military aid, arguing that the US government was infiltrated and manipulated by Israeli agents. Wolf Blitzer, a Washington correspondent for the Jerusalem Post: 'CBS News reported that Angleton had lost his job in December 1974 because of policy disputes over Israel, and not because of allegations of CIA domestic spying as originally reported. Angleton was said to have argued with CIA director William Colby over Middle East policy questions as well (reference: Wolf Blitzer: Between Washington and Jerusalem, New York: Oxford University Press, 1985). Gene
  10. Ron Lisa's book "A Lie Too Big to Fail" is scheduled for release on November 20th. Mike: One logical and obvious thing that always occurs to me when I ponder the role and actions of James Angleton is that he had past experience and connections to many of the principals whom one suspects had a hand in the planning of the assassination (Harvey, Dulles, Phillips, Italy, CMC, Mafia, Mossad). And, if he didn't somehow orchestrate the operation, he surely must have known something was going on. For a senior official in a federal agency (one responsible for the counterintelligence of such plots) to have this knowledge - and not divulge or stop it - is treasonous in itself. Connect the dots; The Italian bank (Credito Commerciale e Industriale) is run by one Valerio Borghese, who is connected to Angleton because his intervention at the end of WWII which saved Borghese from the death penalty for his fascist activities. Then we see Trujillo provide a large amount of money to this Italian bank, which disappeared, and is apparently is the financial support for the assassination ... a triangulation of money from Italy to Haiti, and from Haiti to Dallas. This same bank was previously in the hands of Michele Sindona, a member of CMC-Permindex (along with Clay Shaw) and an OSS trustee when Angleton was Chief of the OSS X-2 Branch in Rome because of his "knowledge of the Italian language and culture". Gene
  11. I agree with Jim. This lead-in has the effect of a back-handed compliment: While most conspiracy theories aren’t worth individually debunking, this is worth notice both because of the extensive citations in Newman’s 600+ page book, his background in intelligence, and his history professorship all lend his reporting an air of authenticity. This debunking of his concluding speculation isn’t meant to denigrate his work, or address the full text of Oswald and the CIA, but only the conclusions Newman offers in the epilogue and elsewhere. Newman, for his part, has the clarity to call these conclusions what they are - speculation. Yet it is because his speculation is respected by so many readers that it bears addressing. Gene
  12. Gene Kelly

    Plaza Man: Bob Groden vs the City of Dallas

    Joe In the context of whistle blowers (and Steve's response), Galileo was persecuted by the powerful Catholic Church's Inquisition. His Heliocentric theory was presented as a 'truth' which rankled the powers that be, and he suffered persecution as a result. After many years, history and science ultimately vindicated Galileo. I'd think his case is similar to what Robert Groden has experienced. So, it matters not what the "official" or popular story line is, as some believe ... the facts are undeniable. Perhaps - as Galileo was purportedly saying to his inquisitors - Gary Mack didn't really believe what he was being forced to say. Gene
  13. Gene Kelly

    Plaza Man: Bob Groden vs the City of Dallas

    This is for Steve and Joe: The phrase Eppur si muove is attributed to the Italian mathematician, physicist and philosopher Galileo Galilei in 1633 after being forced to recant his claims that the Earth moves around the immovable Sun. The quotation is attributed to when he was being investigated by the Inquisition. Under pressure, he supposedly said (against his beliefs) that the Sun did indeed move around the earth then added, sotto voce, Eppur si muove. Its use in modern language is for when we acknowledge what someone else is saying, but we want to convince them otherwise. As such, the phrase is used today as a sort of pithy retort implying that "it doesn't matter what you believe; these are the facts." What Galileo was purportedly saying to his inquisitors was, he didn't really believe what he was being forced to say … that he hadn't changed his mind after all. Some historians believe that it was upon his transfer that Galileo actually said ‘Eppur si muove,’ rather than at his public abjuration following the trial. Scholars however recognize the story as probably apocryphal. It is noted that Galileo was Tuscan, so he likely would not have used the word "muove". This quote was first publicly recorded in the questionable work “The Italian Library” written by Giuseppe Baretti more than 120 years later. Baretti states that, the moment Galileo was set free, he looked up to the sky and down to the ground, and, while stamping his foot, in a contemplative mood, uttered the famous quote, referring to planet Earth. The central dispute between Galileo and the Church was whether Galileo could assert that the Earth really did move around the Sun (as a scientific fact) or whether he should present the idea as merely a hypothesis. Church officials admitted that Galileo’s observations gave the appearance of moving around the Sun, but argued appearances could be deceiving. Galileo, on the other hand, thought it was ridiculous to take poetic passages from the Bible literally. Galileo’s problem arose when he stopped proposing it as a scientific theory and began proclaiming it as a truth. But, despite his friends’ warnings, he insisted on moving the debate onto theological grounds. There is a painting attributed to B. E. Murillo and his school in Madrid that represents Galileo in prison. When cleaned, in 1911, it turned out that the painting was larger than originally framed. When unfolded, it revealed that the figure of Galileo was gesturing toward the words “Eppur si muove.” The painting was commissioned sometime between 1643 and 1650. The painting is not historically correct, because it depicts Galileo in a dungeon, but nonetheless shows that some variant of the "Eppur si muove" anecdote was in circulation immediately after his death, when many who had known him were still alive to attest to it, and that it had been circulating for over a century before it was published. Scholars doubt that Galileo actually said this, and attribute incredible popularity of the quote to widespread animosity against the Catholic Church, prevalent in 18th century, bound with efforts to create martyr-like figures from the Church’s past adversaries and victims. John Heilbron’s 2010 biography of Galileo associates the statement with Archbishop Ascanio Piccolomini, who had supported Galileo, and with whom Galileo spent some months after his trial. Archbishop Piccolomini had few friends in the Vatican and continued to annoy the Church hierarchy by reportedly providing a safe place for Galileo to discuss his opinions. Baretti’s account from 1757 remains the first statement of the myth. Baretti, like Piccolomini, was living in a foreign country where he could safely express his displeasure with the Church. Reference: Darin Hayton (June 3, 2012) “Toward a history of Eppur si muove” Gene
  14. Gene Kelly

    New Article by John Armstrong

    Jim I have a friend who has read H&L and would like to contact and talk with John Armstrong when he visits Hawaii. Is there an address or contact that you would be willing to share Thanks Gene
  15. Gene Kelly

    Plaza Man: Bob Groden vs the City of Dallas

    The comment by Garrison is right on. I'd submit that - to this day - it is not popular to ascribe to any theories that deviate from the Warren Commission's official account, as revised by the HSCA. Those - like the talented researchers on this Forum, who dig deeper and aren't satisfied with the historic account - are not universally well received. My own personal experience (and I'm not an author or serious researcher) has been that - when folks find out that I'm "into" the JFK thing, they are simply not that interested. I might get a few minutes of discussion, and some mild fascination, but most don't have the patience or interest to hear it out or take the story on. I cant put my finger on it, but it may have something to do with not wanting to doubt one's government, or simply a disinterest in JFK as a leader and president. Or that its something that can't be known, so why endlessly speculate. Plus, such events become old news pretty quickly (much less 50 years later) and put into the rear view mirror. My professional experience with whistleblowers has been that - while sometimes right and typically courageous - few end up happy or satisfied. They are shunned by their peers, avoided by the management structure, and marginalized by the government authorities who they think will make them whole (which they will not). Some receive generous settlements, but end up losing their jobs and families. Standing up for what one ideally believes is unjust or wrong can be a very painful and unsuccessful experience.
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