Michael G. Smith

Mark, thanks for the post, very well put. You are right about the times. It was alot different back then. Blacks could not do much, without being severely punished for their actions. But again, not much has changed, as there are still racist people running around doing, and acting the same as the early 60's. Boogie, spear chucker, ni--er, darkie, blackie, mau-mau, coon, jigga-boo, you name it, they have all been used. Back then I'm sure quite a few people, wheather Kennedy or any other person, in this country had probably used one or all of those terms at one time or another. [admitting it or not] It was the times. Could you imagine LBJ never using one of those terms? LOL! On the other hand, cracker, whitey, honky, and others I wont go into, were terms used by many of the blacks against the whites also. People should just accept people for who they are, not what color they happen to be, or what they stand for. As you touched on, its taken all of these years to get where we are today, and it still isnt where it could or should be. FWIW-smitty

Not to get really off the subject, but near me in the next town, they have a great used bood store. They take trade ins, and allow you so much for hardbacks, softs, etc.... on trade in on their books in stock, and they have alot of very out of date, unique books. I have gone in and found many out of print books concerning jfk, the 22nd, and related books, for next to nothing. [plus they allow you so much for the ones you bring in-they are very cheap!]So the next time you pass one, back up, and check it out. You might be suprised!-FWIW-smitty

Lee, FWIW............from McDonalds book, "Who was the man in the picture? It was at this point McDonald gave his mystery man a name. He called him Saul. To this day he cant remember why, unless it was the Bible. "And Saul caused Uriah, the Hittite, to be placed in the forefront of the battle......" Just thought I would pass it on. Not that it matters. Smitty

Thanks for the post Steve. No, Ive never heard of any connection between the two, and it surprized me. After reading the posted article [which was very good] it struck me that if true, wouldnt LHO had to definately had to have a drivers license? No? I know it was the early 60's, but I would think that you would have had to have had one, which meant he probably took a drivers test [if it truly was him]. If a license wasnt needed, I dont know why in the world he would have had a 62' Falcon in his name. If it wasnt truly LHO, then it was a very elaborate tie in for him or Vallee to be a patsy in either Chicago and Dallas. A back-up patsy??? -smitty

Curious, isn't it? He may have been in the Dallas Morning News offices at 12:30, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have hustled a few blocks afterwards. 2. Jack Ruby - He certainly counts as an 'imposter' in my mind later on at a minimum, posing as a newsman during Oswald's news conference. Still keep wondering if Jim Dolan doesn't figure in here someplace. His buddy Eugene does for sure. - lee Actually Lee, just came across and am trying to remember where, those at the Dallas Morning News on close questioning said there was a period of about 30 minutes just about time of 'action' and JFK being in plaza when Ruby was NOT seen in their officies - only before and after.....so...... ...anyone remember if this was on this site - or was it something I've just been reading....? All, Im sure there were many in Dealey that day, that we will never know about. One comes to mind, who Roger Craig testified to being there posing as a S/Service agent. Edgar Eugene Bradley was supposedly there in front of the TSBD posing as S/S right after the assassination. Bradley was supposedly an OSS officer and had "specific" operations during WW2. Supposedly affiliated with Minuteman type organizations, he was investigated by Jim Garrison, Mark Lane and others. After Craigs testimony about his posing in Dealey, Bradley hounded Craig constantly, according to Penn Jones. Another, who we dont know for sure, was the "S/S agent" Officer Joe Smith ran into in the R/R parking lot. It would be nice to know who he really was. Good post Lee. -smitty

Terry, I cant believe he is still kicking, and wanting to continue in politics! I heard him in a blurb today on NPR and he still wants to run again. What troubles me is what he brought out about the Patriots and stealing plays. He was all over that, and said it was a cover-up, and wanted to push for a thourough investigation of the matter! What a joke. He has to be the biggest hipocrite in the world. Believe me when I say this, I dont wish cancer on anyone, but I wish he would finally get out of politics, one way or another, and shut up, once and for all. I think we are all sick of hearing from him. Thanks for posting this. -smitty No worry. Both the Patriot scandal and his cancer can both be taken care of with one 'magic bullet'! Peter, Single Bullet Spector [sBS] has been a pain for years to me. He has been in Pa. his entire life, and being in Jersey, Ive heard about him the entire time, being so close. Knowing what we know about him, and having him run off for years, has been really bothersome. Then hearing him go off about the Patriots, and demanding an investigation, took the cake. Who and what are the Patriots to him? Why would he be so interested, and involved in something like that, is beyond me. He must have some interest in them somewhere. As far as what Terry said, I dont think he would ever reveal anything. How could he look at himself, after asking Castro if he had anything to do with JFK?? Was that just for show? After all these years, and his theory, how could he possibly ask him that? I dont think SBS would ever reveal anything to anybody. Deathbed or not. -smitty

Terry, I cant believe he is still kicking, and wanting to continue in politics! I heard him in a blurb today on NPR and he still wants to run again. What troubles me is what he brought out about the Patriots and stealing plays. He was all over that, and said it was a cover-up, and wanted to push for a thourough investigation of the matter! What a joke. He has to be the biggest hipocrite in the world. Believe me when I say this, I dont wish cancer on anyone, but I wish he would finally get out of politics, one way or another, and shut up, once and for all. I think we are all sick of hearing from him. Thanks for posting this. -smitty

Smitty, Boots on the gound in Maple Shade NJ, a most archypical American town if there ever was one. If you walk the railroad tracks from Dudley Grange park in my old East Camden neighborhood you come to Maple Shade two towns down. That's as far as I ever got. You be careful now Smitty, you know these small town cops, and they already have a bead on you poking around asking questions. I guess if you insist on taking this research further we should find out more about the two girls who were with MLK that day and whether they ever gave their side of the story. I'd also like to know who Mary was and her last name. She is listed on early liquor license but then it is transferred to Nichols. I'd like to find anyone who knew Ernest Nichols to get a more accurate picture of him. Maybe even a photo. I think he was a big, bald headed German immigrant, but not sure. There's also the three witnesses, one black, who were in the place at the time. If we could get their names, or the name of any one of them, chances are one could still be alive, and then we'll have a living witness. If you go four or five blocks down Main Street into Maple Shade there's a dinner or breakfast grill in the center of town. If you go there and get a cup of coffee you'll probably meet somebody who remembers Nichols or knows somebody who does. There's also a local library within walking distance where they should have copies of any articles that have been written about the incident over the years, which may mention the names of the witnesses who wouldn't testify. Finding a photo of Mary's Place as it was in the 50s with the name on a sign would be a crowning acievement. Maybe I'll meet you at the Maple Shade mid-town grill for lunch sometime. BK Bill, thanks for the concern. But alot of the local PD come in the shop where I work, and we are on great terms. They love us. Sarge has a project going on that I am helping him with, so he is more than willing to be of assistance. I am going to ask him if his dad can put me in the right direction, as since he was the past Pres. of the M/S Historical Society, he probably has alot of info on Marys, and hopefully a lead to some era pictures. If he has a period photo, as you said, that would be terrific. I usually see Sarge a few times a week, so next time in, Im going to find out more. Thanks for the info on M/S. I am working 6 days a week and dont have much time to get around. But I will see if I can get to work early one day, and see what I can scout out around the area, as you described. I asked Sarge when M/S was founded, and he thought around the late 1700's, as they still have the first house in M/S as part of their historical society. Very nice town, except the whole area is just getting revamped with newer and newer buildings, strip malls, major dept. stores, etc......... I will keep you all posted. thanks-smitty

To all interested, I talked to anoter Maple Shade regular today who is also a Sgt. on the M/S PD, and asked him about Marys location. It turns out that I was correct the first time. I askled him if he was sure, and he grinned, and gave me a sly look. He said yes, my father is the past president of the Maple Shade Historical society! Lol! So Marys Cafe is still there and in her present glory, as Bill said. If you take Rt. 73 west towards Phila., you will go through the beginning of M/S and come to the off ramp for "Maple Shade/ Morrestown". It is just a single lane off ramp up an incline on the right. It crests to a stop sign and you can make a right or a left. Right is Camden Ave, and left is E. Main St. . Between the off ramp and Rt. 73, on an odd hill sits Marys Cafe. It is in very poor condition, boarded up, revamped in what appears to be in the 60's or 70's, with a red plastic roof shingles and tan siding, that are in desperate need of repair. I did get a look inside from the back, as the vent hole for a fan was gone. But it was a moving expeirience to be there, even though nothing really remains. In sad condition as I said, you can imagine what it looked like in the 50's. The concrete steps to the main entrance are still there, and I had to walk them, as I knew these had to be the main entrance to Marys, which Dr. King and his companions walked the very same steps many years ago, that eventfull night. The Sgt. I spoke with said the state plans to revamp the entire off ramp and intersection. It will go the way of all of the other historical sights and places to make way for expansion and improvements, Im sorry to say. So, if you are near the area, and want to see Marys, do it soon, as only time will tell when she will no longer be there. I will try and get some pictures [forgot the camera today!] and post them for you to see, and to have as a reminder of what took place there many years ago in the beginning of Dr. Kings struggle for equal rights. -smitty

All, got a chance today to talk to a lifelong local. He gave me directions and since I had to take a test drive, I took the time to take a look. I beleive I found it, but not positive. The building looks to be period, and has been refinished outside but is very dilapidated, and is boarded up. I am going back down again tomorrow to look again, as a local lifelong resident who happens to be a captain for the Maple Shade PD, told me later on today it is down further than where I was. So Im going to do some more looking. Your description Bill sounds right, but this building is on the northeast corner, not the southeast. I have to make a positve ID on the intersection road, as this will be the answer. I didnt get to find out the name of the road when I stopped, as I didnt have much time. I am going to bring my camera tomorrow and hopefully will find out for sure, and get some pictures. Will keep you posted. -smitty

All, I too was a long time believer that the RFK assassination was the one to work on and solve, to get to the final end to the JFK issue, as Peter stated. It only makes sense that there is much less involved compared to the JFK issue, and to finally solve that would eventually lead to finally putting to rest the other. A great read on these subjects was done in "Assassinations" by James DiEugenio and Linda Pease. A very good book on all of the 60's conspiracys. I think the problem is, that its not so much that people arent looking to solve the RFK issue, its that they run into the same "power control group" that contols the same things involved in the JFK case. Information, evidence, witness tampering, etc....... are almost identical to the other. We can be assured the same group, and people involved are the same that were used in both cases. When you have powerful people in the government working against you, it gets very hard to break through and get what you need to get access to evidence, [if its still there!], witnesses to speak up, and other things needed to keep going on to work on solving any case. The LA county and PD did their best to make sure that things were so badly handled, that it would take Houdini to figure them out. Considering the Marilyn Monroe, and RFK cases, the only person who stands out in my mind is Dr. Noguchi. He seems to be the only one who stood by his guns, under intense pressure from others, while everyone else just went with the flow and did what they were told. Perfect example: Can you say Scott Enyarts photos?. jmo fwiw- smitty

Bill, Thanks for the reply. Ill see what i can find out. Im not that familiar with the area yet, but im getting there. lol. Im sure its east of the 295 and 73 intersection. Ill ask some of the old timers and find out where main/camden is and take a long lunch and find it. Your idea of some type of marker is a great idea. The only problem up there is, property is at a premium, and if its not a parking lot, its a mini-mall. The whole area up around where i am off of Collins road looks like it was dropped out of the sky and is all spotlessly brand new, except for some of the older existing buildings [which im sure will be torn down to make way for newer buildings-thats what im sure they have in mind for Marys, if not already] I sure hope not, and I can get some pics before its too late. Ill keep all posted. Thanks-Smitty

Bill, being a local Jersey guy, {as you know}, I truly appreciate your post here concerning Dr. King and his episode here in NJ. Suprisingly, I have been working at a new job here right in Maple Shade right on Rt. 73 for the last 4 months! [im sure it is only a stones throw from where Im at-2 blocks off Rt. 295] I will be looking this place up as soon as I can. Hopefully I can get some pics, and maybe post them here for others to see. With his anniversary of his death this past week, it is a timely post to his struggle with civil rights. The History channel had a very good special on the other night which was very good in my opinion. and showed his life and struggles which got him to where he was able to get many things done for minorities. This episode in Maple Shade is just a small part of the struggles he and others faced during thier years working for others. Im sure when I get there, it will move me in a way that should move people who care about the never ending stuggles of others. Thank you again, not just for me, but for all of the others who are moved by articles and events such as the one you have posted for us. -Smitty

Fwiw, from what I can make of this is, that the Willis photo shows only one man on the top step, not two. [sorry Bill], two men do not line up exactly like that without there being very obvious differences seen, such as the thickness of bodies, etc... ,and the "RSM" on the lower step. Now as far as the position of the limo, the other "young man" would have had to be getting to the steps pretty quickly to be there by the time the limo got to the position he is seen there with the other two. Can you say running? And be there looking comfortable? As far as the man being "BDM", I dont think it is, as the young man is wearing light colored clothing, as BDM is basically seen in dark clothing. He also would have had to be really hoofing it to be there in the amount of time before the limo got there. Lee is working hard at this angle and any help from anyone who has any info/material should come forward at this time and help out, as I truly believe that this is where the action took place, not to mention behind the fence. There are too many discrepancys to dismiss. Especially Hudsons testimony! I would like to see some photos posted of Hudson laying down, and the other fellow also down on the ground, as Hudson stated. Either Hudson was totally out of it, and made up most of his testimony, or there were definate problems going on there. The whole "step, walkway" area was full of action within a matter of seconds. The blood is a definate. Someone was hit. If someone else was just injured, we would have known about it, one way or another. whoever was "hit", kept going and was heading out of town. The problem I do have with the pool, is that to bleed that much, you would have had to be there for some bit of time. if your running and get hit, you dont bleed that much in passing. So what explains that? They would have had to have gone down, or just stood there and bled out. Someone had to have seen something go down there as far as a bleeder. Coley didnt lie, and they verified it was blood, and not anything else. Another point.....if Gordon Arnold was there [that is up in the air-personally I am not convinced of that one] he would have had something to say about it, as he was right there in that exact area. All you hear from him is what happened to him, and not a peep about anythng else that occured in that immediate vacinity concerning someone going down or appearing to have been shot or knifed. Now either he wasnt there or he is blind. I tend to belive the first. Why would he clam up about all of the action going on surrounding him, especially when it involved people running, blood on the walk, etc.... . Doesnt make sense to not come forward with that info. Lee, keep up the good my man. Forget your detractors, you are on to a good point, and Im sure more info/material will be forthcoming. -smitty

All, personally, I wish Spector would finally drop dead. Being a NJ resident, we hear of his antics constantly, and I personally am sick of this man. Entering into this football problem was the last straw. I cant believe he would actually sit there and cry about a coverup, after what that lowlife did with the JFK single bullet theory coverup!! *%@#$@*&@%$@#% What a hypocrite!! Has he lost his mind? Or is he just that forgetfully stupid? At his age, he has no business even being in office, as he probably is suffering from dymensia at this point. The only coverup he should be involved with at this point, would be when they pull the sheet over him. FWIW -MS

Tosh, Have you read Estes's book Billie Sol Estes: A Texas Legend? There's quite a bit in it about the assassination, but below is how Estes sums it up in one simple and remarkable paragraph (pages 141-142). I'd be interested to know how this summary strikes you, knowing Texas as you did. "The real story behind the assassination is just plain simple. Nothing elaborate, just a country turkey shoot with some country boys doing the shooting. The fact is President Kennedy did not understand Texas and its business ways. Even today, if I want to make sure something happens, I invite the people to meet me in my county. If things do not work out, I have them arrested. Pretty soon, they see things my way. Kennedy should never have come to Texas. He knew a majority of Texans hated him but he just did not realize the danger. He was a member of the intellectual elite and pretentious. He did not realize that LBJ and his friends intended to kill him." Ron; I have not read his book. However, the above is right on in my opinion. When I first heard that Kennedy was going to Texas (I was told he was going to Austin Texas then Dallas) Being raised in Texas, I thought then it was a bad bad mistake. Billy Sol said it the only way an insider Texan could. That was the overall mood for the special interest that ran Texas politics of the time. Kennedy was warned many times to stay out of Texas. He was even told he was walking into a real Texas 'Turkey Shoot", if he went down there . "The Texas Good Old Boys were waiting for him", he was told. He laughed it off. Kennedy did not understand Texans and Texas special interest politics. That is what got him assassinated. I too, have said the assassination was a simple case of the Good Old Boys getting together for a day of target practice. I was told I was "insensitive". My reply was, " You don't understand Texas politics". Billy Sol, and I are on the same page in reference to who and why the assassination of President Kennedy was launched. However, I did not hate Kennedy like some down there. It was a sad day for me in more ways than one. I liked the man and his ideas. This thread started out about President Kennedy's love child and bent toward Johnson killing Kennedy. I want to bend it in another direction, at least for one Reply. To Tosh: You are very learned about Texas politics and the elite families. Clint Murchison III's ex wife died mysteriously a few years ago at age 47. Her body and face were very bruised. The autopsy surgeon claimed she died from food poisoning. Her sister told the press, "She fell. That's all." The woman was taking psychiatric pills. I think she was murdered. The coroner was surprised how diseased her liver was for her age. She died from listeria, a bacteria I think. It's possible she was poisoned over a period of time. Maybe she was given a bad mushroom, which destroys the liver immediately. The Coroner kept quiet. The case was closed. Tosh, when I look in Texas newspapaers and magazines, I can barely find anything out about her. Just that she was a socialite and worked for children's charities. Tosh, what is your opinion on Murchison III ? Is he a chip off the old shoulder? Kathy All, Reading BP&M years ago, I dont recall either about a JFK child, but beyond that, the book leaves alot to the imagination, and your own conclusion. Besides that, I found the book very informative as to what a dirtbag LBJ and his cronies were. I dont believe there wasnt anything they would not do to move up in politics, and improve thier status amoung the elite, including murder. LBJ had blood on his hands, and everyone knew it. The Texas power "oil elite" would fund any operation that they were against, just look at the ads that day in Dallas, so I dont think helping out in a plan to eliminate Jfk was beyond their scope. FWIW MS

Welcome aboard John, we are glad to have you here. I myself really like Jim and Lisa Pease's work, and Probe. Really enjoyed their book "The Assassinations", which I finished a short time ago. Sounds like you are doing alot more than just "couch" researching. lol. Im sure you will fit right in. Thanks for your intro. -Mike Smith

While Hoffa's involvement in the assasination is certainly discussion-worthy, I think it's safe to say that his death was a direct result of Mafia/Teamsters politics. Hoffa angered Genovese capo Tony Provenzano and Detroit capo Anthony "Tony Jack" Giacalone (along with the leadership of the Detroit Partnership- the name for the Detroit Mafia family, then led by aging Joe Zerilli). I agree with you Scott on that. The mob warned Hoffa not to mess with the current arrangements within the Teamsters by running for President again. [legally or illegally] The mob was more than happy with Fitzsimmons as President, as far as loans and money went. They knew if Hoffa got back in, things would change. I beleive Hoffa threatened them with going public with what he knew about "certain things" if he wasnt left alone concerning his running. The mob didnt like that one bit. As far as the Hotel being leased to the military seemed very odd. Why would they be dealing with the Teamsters, and or the mob, with Bobby Kennedy after them as hot and heavy as he was? But I would guess they are going to do what satisfies their situation, regardless of either Kennedy, especially with the relationship they had with JFK. FWIW -MS

While Hoffa's involvement in the assasination is certainly discussion-worthy, I think it's safe to say that his death was a direct result of Mafia/Teamsters politics. Hoffa angered Genovese capo Tony Provenzano and Detroit capo Anthony "Tony Jack" Giacalone (along with the leadership of the Detroit Partnership- the name for the Detroit Mafia family, then led by aging Joe Zerilli). I agree with you Scott on that. The mob warned Hoffa not to mess with the current arrangements within the Teamsters by running for President again. [legally or illegally] The mob was more than happy with Fitzsimmons as President, as far as loans and money went. They knew if Hoffa got back in, things would change. I beleive Hoffa threatened them with going public with what he knew about "certain things" if he wasnt left alone concerning his running. The mob didnt like that one bit. As far as the Hotel being leased to the military seemed very odd. Why would they be dealing with the Teamsters, and or the mob, with Bobby Kennedy after them as hot and heavy as he was? But I would guess they are going to do what satisfies their situation, regardless of either Kennedy, especially with the relationship they had with JFK. FWIW -MS

Jack, Thanks so much for your work over the years. You have done more on this case than many others put together, and I applaud you. I may not agree with everything you present, but I dont think there is anyone who agrees with everything that is presented by anyone. You have to respect someone who has put in so much time and effort into this case for all of these years. When anyone contributes as much as you have, they will always have detractors, for whatever reason. I will be checking out your site very soon, and Im sure it will be quality work. Thanks again for your contributions, and thought provoking hard work. Keep up the good work my friend. --MS

John, thanks for your great input. I agree 100%. Its funny you should mention Sorenson, as I just saw him no less than an hour ago speaking of that on Good Morning America. I cant fathom not being realistic enouth to think that these people are not still with us today, and would not stoop to that level again. If not outright political assassination, it would be character assassination, as another resolution to the same type of threat that was presented in the 60's. To think that the "power control group" is not still active and in charge, would be like saying that the problems of the 60's are not still presenting themselves to us today. Health care, civil rights, and involvment in the war, are just a few of the same issues these men who were eliminated in the 60's were confronting, and trying to resolve then, as they are today. If you just listened to what the candidates are saying about the problems facing this country today, and listened to the candidates from the 60's, it would not be much different. The same problems then are facing us now, and still have not been resolved. It does not seem as though they will ever be resolved, as they do not want to changes these things. Reason being is primarily because of the almighty dollar which drives this country. The "power control group" will not let these things change because there is too much money to be made, and as far as civil rights go, they do not seem to want change there either. Things are probably worse today than they were then. To think the same things that happened all during the 60's could not happen today, is baffling to me. JMO -MS

Oh, I don't know. He's 23, only has a part time job and living at home with his parents. I'd be interested to know what kind of medication he was taking that would forestall fainting spells. Steve Thomas All, Its quite possible he had seizures from an accident. A friend of mine was in a head on accident on a motorcycle, and got messed up pretty bad. It took ten years, but he started having seizures [i cant remeber the technical term for it] but they were similar to epileptic siezures. He would have violent fits where he would actually hurt himself severely from the seizure. [from hitting himself on things etc...and he had no recollection of what happened during the fit] I beleive it got to the point he had to move in with his daughter, as he couldnt live by himself anymore because of the fear of really hurting himself. The Dr.s told him it was not uncommon for this to happen years after an accident involving a head injury. He was on all kinds of meds. Pain medication, seizure meds, anxiety meds, it went on. If he stayed in a controlled enviorment [hospital] and took his meds regularly, he was ok. But if not, and was at home, I dont believe he took his meds as he was supposed to, he had these fits. So it doesnt sound too far out to me for him to have these fits. Seems quite possible for that to happen with that type of injury if it involved the head. FWIW MS

Kathy, I can see your point on this issue, and your "tie in" with the JFK debate. Unfortunatly it was the same with Dr. King, JFK, and RFK also. The "powers that be" when confronted with a threat, do what comes naturally. Not just defending their point, but by taking down/out their opponent/threat. This country felt very threatened by Dr. King, and the power he was beginning to gain from his campaining, and verbally speaking out for the poor, civil rights, and all of the other issues confronting the oppressed. This country didnt want RFK as a president either, as he stood side by side with Dr. King, and spoke of the same issues. Political assassination comes naturally to these people, as a "solution" to the problem. Quite a solution, wouldnt you say? Peter posted a good issue not too long ago about "the speech that got Dr. King killed". Go back and check it out, as it made some very good points and he posted several of his speeches. Your point on Mr. Obama is well taken and you made a good point. Ive thought the same thing myself a while back ago when he first started campaigning. Political leaders have "backed off" over the years from threats, and some have continued on despite the threats. Dr. King, in his last speech, spoke prophetically, as though he knew his fate, and seemed to be at peace with it. I believe he knew he did all that he could do to try and lead the people and maybe this country if given the chance. Who knows if this will happen again? Im sure that given time, political assassination will be the "answer" for this "group" again. As we know all too well, there will be someone else who will rise up among the people, who will be a leader among leaders, and will gain enough strenth to become the threat that these other men were. Whether they be black, white, yellow, brown, or purple, it doesnt matter. A threat is a threat. JMO -MS

I apologize if any of my comments offended you; they were not intended to reflect my own opinions, but the "tone" and - I'm sorry to say - the reality of the times. That they were wrong realities doesn't make them any less realistic. We've moved well past the day when going to the back of the bus, watching movies from the balcony and drinking from a separate water fountain were the accepted norm; but 1963 was "the day when," and those things were "accepted" - even if not acceptable in everyone's eyes - in large measure, including by those victimized by them.Were that not so, the name Rosa Parks would never have entered our consciousness: she would've just been someone doing what everyone else did, no big deal. The point is, tho', that they didn't, and that's why her name will be forever memorialized. Removing anything "of color" from the discussion, neither Troy West nor Eddie Piper were by nature men who were aggressive, and shooting a gun at someone is definitely aggressive. I'm referring to a man who sat in one place all day long and wrapped packages because "that's where his work was." The other's job was as janitor, and what I described him doing is exactly what was described in official reports to be his job. If "scrubbing commodes" sounds less than glamorous, if that's what your job is, there's nothing "derogatory" or "demeaning" about someone saying that that's what you do, even if actually doing the job is. As to their participation in any conspiracy that day, I reject the possibility out of hand unless and until someone can come up with something a lot better than "I don't think their 'alibi' is good enough," as if they even needed one. Once again, please accept my apologies for anything offensive; it wasn't intended to be. Accepted. The facts you state are true. There were many situations back then that unfortunately are still unchanged today, sad but true. If not for alot of people such as MLK who took the chance to make changes in the lives of others, and to make all peoples lives better, things today would be the same as it was at the turn of the Century. That may seem extreme, but it really isnt when you think about it. Look at what is happening today down in Louisiana right now. See the post by Peter Lemkin on that. {I forget the post right now} But unfortunately, our government stops these things before they get too much power behind them. Look at Medgar Evers 63', MLK 68', RFK 68', and even JFK 63'. They all were people who wanted change. Who wanted peace between all races. Unfortunately, many people didnt want that, especially our government, who still dont want it today, regardless of what they say, and how much money they say they spend to make the "change" needed to make lives better for all. Enough of this. No problem here. -MS

This subject has been going on forever it seems like. Could be either way. Very good chance he just had a "fit" and needed an ambulance, and felt better once at the hospital. People with Epilepsy often have very short seizures, or they could be extended. Regardless [getting off track] it would be a very ingenious method of distracting peoples attention. Most people look at at the distraction for the TSBD. But the main objective may have been for the Dal-Tex, Co. Records building, or even the parking lot area. This would have allowed not only maybe shooters, but spotters, radio men, phony S/S and DPD men to get to their perspective locations as per plans. A few other things. Tom mentioned with BR Williams being on the 6th floor causing the shooter to take a less than desirable location for a shot, but when BR moved, it allowed him to move to the desirable location. [meaning the east end window] My opinion, the west end windows would have been a better shooting location than the east. Closer to target for one, plus an easier shot IMO. [You wouldnt have been all squeezed into the corner with that nasty pipe in the way on the east end] Additionally, the west end was the original shooter location witnessed by Arnold Rowland and his wife, and others. Another thing. John graciously posted the WC testimony of BR Williams by Mr. Ball. BRW testified about where he worked over the last few years or so. Why would BR leave a Government job working at the Post Office, for a job stacking school books for like a $1.25 an hour?? Doesnt make too much sense to me, to leave a Gov. job, [civil service] with Im sure [even at that time] ins. benefits, holidays, vacation, sick time, etc... Just seems odd, doesnt it? Here is a young black man, one year out of high school, with no other schooling, or prior P.O. exp. who was a dishwasher and a fry cook, getting a job at the Union Terminal Annex Post Office. Then leaving it. I guess Ive seen weirder things. JMO FWIW-MS