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Ed LeDoux

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About Ed LeDoux

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    JFK & political assassinations.

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  1. Re-Post from ROKC: re Baker entering TSBD

    Or It could put her farther down elm than was thought. Since she is not the lady with a knit capped infant we can safely say the location on Don Roberdeau's plat marked Hawkins is in error. Peggy was not near the tree. She stated she was at the end of a line of people. Cheers Ed
  2. Re-Post from ROKC: re Baker entering TSBD

    I did send Peggy photos, those posted here and others. She said the photos are not her. Meaning she has not been located in them. Son would be 4yrs old, standing beside her, not a baby being held. She moved at the first shot. She did not go towards Bakers bike, she might have been able to hear it. She went back, away from Elm Street, directly after the shot sounded and Kennedy slums, she knew it was a shot and not a backfire, or firecracker. She went back towards the TSBD and got behind the wall/abutment. She waited. When she thought there were no more shots she then walked towards the TSBD. She had to step out into the Elm Extension as the sidewalk was full of people, she went behind them, out into the street, and there was a motorcycle there on ELM EXTENSION she stopped and heard a report that was of a nature, did not mention TSBD, she said she thought it was safe to enter the Depository. She went around the motorcycle and to the front entrance She does not recall any police on her way to the third floor. Only after being inside did the police enter, she saw them from the offices door and she saw them searching. (recall this was a motorcade and cops were at the intersections with motors/ bikes/trikes) So if she mentions a policeman in her FBI statement it could be referencing just such a officer. (Smith, etc.) Or it could be Baker she mentioned on the way in as being out front. Recall also the "FRONT" of the TSBD runs from corner of Houston St. down Elm Extension to the end of the TSBD Annex. I believe she might have overheard the Curry report from Baker's motorcycle radio I believe she had to of gone around and also listened to Harkness' trike radio and its position when he parked at the end of Elm Extension and talked to those in the Railroad Yard/car park /Fence area and was pointed to Amos Euins, whom he put on his trike and took him to the TSBD front entrance. His trike was parked where Peggy would be walking up Elm Extension. So the officer she mentions in the FBI report could be officer Smith only down the Elm Extension as he searches the bushes, or it could be Harkness as he parked on Elm Ext. and located witnesses in the car park. Cheers, Ed
  3. Backyard Photographs

  4. Re-Post from ROKC: re Baker entering TSBD

    Peggy Bibler was born in 1934 and was kind enough to speak to me about her family history. She is the daughter of Ewing Bibler and Irene (Eulla Belle) Danley. She is also a living witness to history. She related to me she was living in Mesquite Texas in 1963 and her husband, John Henry Hawkins, worked as a textbook salesman for Mr. Wilson at Allyn and Bacon in Dallas at the Texas School Book Depository. She had driven to Dallas for the first time alone. She had planned to watch the President from her husbands office windows on the third floor of the TSBD. She was up there on the third floor and decided since the sidewalk was empty to take up a spot directly out front of the TSBD as she knew the motorcade would pass in front of her and her son only 4 years old John Benjamin Hawkins. They watched as the limo was 10 -15 feet away the shots rang out. She knew gunshots having grown up around them. She did not think they came from the TSBD. She saw the president slump and that was indicative that he had been hit. She instinctively took her son behind the retaining wall for safety. Then she was listening and heard a radio report from the policeman's motorcycle at the curb. The report was of a nature that she felt it safe to go inside the TSBD. She felt it was a report calling for police to search Railroad yards. So she went in the TSBD and was locked in for around an hour before having to sign out, so to speak, or give her name and address. The police came and got her statement later. She doesn't recall having to show id just stated her details for the police officer. She was let go after about an hour in which time she would she police going passed the doorway and when she stuck her head out she would she heavily armed police about. Peggy said she did not think Lee Oswald shot from the TSBD. She doesn't know where or how many shots were fired but she does know what she heard and did. Going back into the TSBD being vivid in her mind with her son as that was a safe place where she felt shots had not come from. Of course later that is exactly what she was told happened. Her husband sold text books and traveled around the state sometimes out of state for business and he knew Lee Oswald. Knew him by name, and face. John liked to know everyone's names. He said Lee would load his car with books for his sale routes. Lee was a nice employee according to Peggy. The limo had gone past with Jackie and JFK and the Governor, Peggy was the closest to the president when the shots happened. 10-15 feet Standing on Elm sidewalk next to the curb. She saw JFK fall into Jackie's lap. She knew he was shot, she took son backwards towards the TSBD and got behind an abutment. She said they would claim that was location of the shot. She did not see any shots hit anyone but Kennedy before she reacted. She said she was standing at the very end of the line of the people. She said she saw the pictures and warren report, wasn't holding son, she thought he was standing beside her. Only thing she knows about policeman was the motorcycle was parked in front of TSBD and she paused by motorcycle and heard the report which she felt safe to enter the TSBD. She agreed the radio report was likely about railroad and didn't mention the TSBD and felt safe to re-enter. She was trapped and locked in the TSBD. Saw from the office police well armed searching the building. She understands policeman, as her son John Benjamin Hawkins became a city policeman in Arkansas. Son doesn't recall the event, as he was too young to have an impression. Its been a lot of years but she tells her brush with history like it happened yesterday She said if Oswald wasn't working at the TSBD it could have happened any where along the parade as all the large buildings had unlocked attics. It just happened, she says, that Lee worked there at the TSBD, and they claimed that was the location where shots had came from. That's all. For now. Cheers, Ed
  5. Now we need a better or another photo? Like Wiegman AND Darnell are just not enough. Prayer Man's shirt just isn't clear enough to examine the tag and see if its 100 percent cotton... Thanks Bill, if we need your help, say to use that coin for the upcoming super bowl toss, we'll let you know. When it comes to securing a better frame, again hold your quarter, we got it covered as serious researchers. Still waiting that Sasquatch documentation, (pictures?) you said you would have by now. And while you've been a squatchin we found Lee, documented his alibi, and how that was used against him. Please try and catch up. Perhaps by reading Prayer Man: Out Of the Shadows and Into the Light by Stan Dane. Then you'll be speaking from an informed opinion and we won't have to answer already answered questions like you ask about Lee's attire. Cheers, Ed PS I hear Bill Kelly has an unused copy of the PM book and he has no idea where Lee was during the shooting either. (See a pattern?)
  6. Oswald Leaving TSBD?

    That is the proverbial we I believe Bill uses to try and bolster a failed argument. Another frame showing the shirt, Cheers!
  7. So glad Prayer Man is being researched but someone saying things such as Prayer Man's shoulders are squared after being out of square (?) without showing any photogrammetry to base this claim on is where the research turns to snake oil salesmanship rather than a prognosis. Opinions are one thing but when the person whom says certain things are fact without a fact to back it up are wasting your time not with opinion but disinformation. The height of a person leaning against a wall is shorter than the same person standing erect. This is a fact. A leaning man will be shorter than his actual height. If Prayer Man were TALLER than what Lee could possibly be standing erect then you have impugned Prayer Man as Lee. But then you can't see his tippy toes can you... ? But stumbling about with a premise that a short PM disqualifies it as Lee is a faulty one. And a wastage. It goes back to the other faulty premise that it was a woman and thus short. Also the buttons, and other faulty arguments, like purses, or a woman's face. I had to destroy this as being complete bunk. The two repeating images of "faces" circled in yellow by me, prove the unsuitability of the gif, the frames being used and the waste of time immense. But please do continue the Prayer Man research. I enjoy the flat earth being returned to its curved self at the end of every day. Cheers, Ed
  8. I don't believe we should cater this to one posters argument. I don't believe the burden of proof has been sustained for one to even conjecture the person in the corner is anything but a male, wearing a work type shirt, with male type features. Long neck lines and sideburns aside, the only evidence pointed to is others mistaking foreheads for faces on the etch-a-sketch. I looked at what was posted and provenance of the DIDP clip. It would not be worth the kind of study we are after. If it was then we can all go home. Its not. We would need a 3rd gen copy to study with any confidence the sort of minutia a Brian or Duncan would ultimately bring. As it stands with what is presented it is Prayer Man. Cheers, ED
  9. Thanks to Patrick Lewis @ London Room, London Public Library for aiding in the research of this article. Cheers! Ed
  10. And here is the article in the London EVENING Free Press for 11/23/1963, and Ed Hicks said as Oswald was leaving the bldg he was stopped and questioned. How did they know it was Oswald and he worked there? Because Roy Truly stepped up and vouched for Lee. This could not be later when Truly and Baker are on the roof. This was as Baker enters Cheers~Ed
  11. Thanks Don, Hmm, mildly interesting. I covered most of this on Lancer. Did some interviews, wrote it up. But new stuff turns up,,, But the most interesting piece of information is the tipster's phone number, which was not redacted in the FBI file. The number, 378-5243, was provided by the Long Beach Coast Guard station. Since no area code was specified, the tipster presumably had the same one as the station, "213." A hunt for information on the number (213) 378-5243 turns up a solitary reference in an obscure congressional document from 1974. In that record, a report on a congressional hearing that examined the possibility of amending the Constitution to protect unborn children, the number is listed as belonging to Right to Life, an anti-abortion group founded in 1969. Right to Life, which claimed to be America's first pro-life organization, provided an address in Palos Verdes Estates, Calif. Interestingly enough, one of the 12 founders of Right to Life was James Francis McIntyre, the Catholic Archbishop of Los Angeles from 1948-70, who knew President Richard Nixon. Seattle Weekly was unable to track down an old phone book to determine whether the organization had the same number in 1972, when Boggs disappeared, as it did in 1974, when it surfaced in the congressional report. But if the number was the same, why would someone associated with an pro-life organization, founded in part by a powerful bishop connected to President Nixon, claim to have inside knowledge on the disappearance on an influential Democratic congressman? So a quick look and: Rampart College newsletter August, 1974Are you a traditional Catholic, an economic libertarian, and entrepreneurial minded? If so, and if you are interested in some exciting joint ventures with excellent profit and "cause" potentials, please contact Michael Engler at 2550 Via Tejon, Suite 3A, Palos Verdes Estates, CA 90274 - phone (213) 378-5243 An actual 1972 Palos Verdes Estates phone directory may take an trip to an CA library ... but this is likely solvable.
  12. The Real Ruth and Michael Paine

    Thanks for bringing us back to the topic, Ed. By the way, that's a GREAT photo of Michael Paine -- I've never seen it before. And no, there's no Bates Motel vibe there -- there's a rich, ivy-league Prep School there. That boy will become an engineer at Bell Helicopter Corp. I predict. As for Anthony Perkins -- what a handsome actor he was. I still remember his 1960 comedy with Jane Fonda, Tall Story. Sadly, Perkins was type-cast by Alfred Hitchcock and made most of his money doing Psycho 1, 2 and 3 over the decades. Maybe Michael Paine isn't quite as handsome as Anthony Perkins, but I do see a mild resemblance. Regards, --Paul Trejo No worries Paul, There were no Horace Mann- Lincoln yearbooks with Mike in them available online so I found a 1947 book to purchase . Lincoln school, 1917, was a special school based on an article by Dr Abraham Flexner called The Modern School based on urging by Dr Charles Eliot, President of Harvard. Dr Flexner's work caused establishment of the Institute For Advanced Study at Princeton. It was established to improve education not just in the US but throughout the world. (world peace would not be too far from a goal too) Students choose their course study and instructors show the relation between the course of study and life itself. Instead of chemistry being a bunch of memorized symbols and definitions, they would apply the study to their environment. Flexner dropped classic languages of Greek and Latin, saying their relative importance had declined. Plus they were poorly taught, he noted students scores whom had studied the subject. The school had no bells between classes, this was called 'progressive education' based on philosophy of change. The way to find the best way to change education methods and teaching was to experiment. Lincoln was an experiment. The progressive schools were allowed a flexibility. free from certain static curriculum requirements. Under the the Aiken Plan, Professor @ Ohio St., students would be admitted to college without taking College Board Exams In order to prove the methods tried at Lincoln were sound and adaptable the school was conducted in connection with an older school, the Horace Mann school. Horace Mann school was the demonstration. In 1940 the schools mergered. Now an experiment school was one with its demonstration school. This was not what was optimum, and in 1946 trustees of Teachers College decided to close it. Teachers College said it could experiment in public schools more effectively and economically. TC offered the parents the choice to administer the school themselves...if not the school would close. Parents, teachers, and students and outside interest groups opposed the closure. This is from the 1947 yearbook... of course the school continued, but the most interesting connection is this about the school. A Long Tradition Horace Mann School was founded by Nicholas Murray Butler in 1887 as a coeducational experimental and developmental unit of Teachers College, Columbia University. In 1947, it became an independent day school for boys in grades seven through twelve. The reestablishment of coeducation was accomplished through mergers with the New York School for Nursery Years in 1968, the Barnard School in 1972, and the enrollment of girls in the high school beginning in 1975. In 1887, a full year's tuition for a high school senior was $150. The School’s founding fathers named the school after Horace Mann (1796-1859). Horace Mann was a lawyer who served in the Massachusetts State Legislature. He was the first Secretary of the Massachusetts Board of Education, a Member of the United States House of Representatives, and President of Antioch College. He used each of his positions to proclaim that every person, regardless of their background, should receive a public education based on the principles and practices of a free society. He also proclaimed that slaves should be free, women should vote and the mentally ill should be cared for. Although Horace Mann’s ideas were revolutionary, he did play a leading role in establishing the elementary school system in the United States. Ruth Paine's Alma Mater! Chronology: A Sampling of Important Dates 1886 The Barnard School was founded 1887 Teachers College and Model School founded at No. 9 University Place 1891 Nicholas Murray Butler leaves the Presidency of Teachers College. Dr. William Hervey becomes President 1894 Horace Mann School and Teachers College move into a single building on 120th Street. 1894 Virgil Prettyman becomes Principal of Horace Mann School 1901 Horace Mann School moved into its own building at 120th Street and Broadway in Morningside Heights. The School was across the street from the former Bloomingdale Insane Asylum which was being used as a students’ dormitory at Teachers College. By this time, however, Horace Mann was becoming less of an experimental school for the students of Teachers College to try out their new ideas, and more of a well-recognized school in its own right. Teachers College eventually created the Lincoln School as a new co-educational school in which to practice their experimental teaching methods, leaving Horace Mann more and more independent. 1909 Teachers College purchased lots on 246th Street in the Fieldston section of the Bronx. Alumni Field opened there as an athletic facility. The property is reported to have cost $20,001 which was paid for by Mr. Prettyman. 1914 Horace Mann School for Boys opened on 246th Street. Henry Carr Pearson became the Headmaster of the Horace Mann High School for Girls, still on 120th Street. 1920 Charles Carpenter Tillinghast was appointed Headmaster 1924 Prettyman Gymnasium and Pool opened 1940Horace Mann High School for Girls merged with the Lincoln School 1946 Horace Mann-Lincoln School closed 1947 Horace Mann School for Boys obtained complete financial and administrative independence from Teachers College. The new Board of Trustees received a provisional charter changing the School's name back to Horace Mann School 1950 Dr. Mitchell Gratwick becomes the third Headmaster 1951 Horace Mann's permanent charter from the New York Board of Regents was granted 1954 The New York School for Nursery Years was founded 1956 Pforzheimer Hall was built, named after Mr. Carl H. Pforzheimer, who was chairman of the Board of Trustees 1962 Alfred Gross Hall, housing the Van Alstyne Auditorium and new cafeteria, opened. The old auditorium became the Theresa H. Loeb Library. The fourth floor of the newly-renamed Tillinghast Hall was converted from a gymnasium into classroom space 1965 The John Dorr Nature Laboratory, 85 acres of land in rural Washington Depot, Connecticut, was left to the school by John Dorr, an inventor and a neighbor of Headmaster Gratwick 1968 Horace Mann established the Horace Mann School for Nursery Years through a merger with the New York School for Nursery Years (which had been founded in 1954 and housed in Andrew Carnegie's old carriage house on 90th Street) 1968 Harry Williams named Acting Headmaster .............. Bell Helicopter and world peace, makes for an modern dichotomy. But Mike was free to live as he chooses.
  13. The Real Ruth and Michael Paine

    Anyways, back to the subject, here is Mike Paine in 1947 Horace Mann-Lincoln school. His senior year photo and quote, an ROKC exclusive scan. Anyone else sensing a Bates Motel - Anthony Perkins vibe?
  14. The Real Ruth and Michael Paine

    Pony tail vs two pig tails can be a very slight distinction depending on how they are presented. Do they appear to be pig tails or a pony tail? What does it have to matter with the JFK murder? If what happened was as Mrs Whitworth said, and if Marina was right, then somebody was impersonating Oswald and his wife. IMO Or confusing Oswald/Marina, with some other couple, after the fact. Perhaps a Czech couple. Did Lee lock Marina in during the day? One could suspect it was Marina, but she was driven there by a friend with a 57 Ford, while Ossie was at work. Mrs. HUNTER. It was a 1957--I think it was a 1957 Ford instead of a 1958. Mr. McKENZIE. Blue and white? Mrs. HUNTER. Blue and white yes, sir. Mr. McKENZIE. Blue on the bottom and white on the top? Mrs. HUNTER. Yes, sir; I think I've got a picture of the car that my friends--the one that I was waiting for. Could I ask her a question? [Addressing Marina Oswald.] Don't you have a rinse on your hair now? *Mrs. OSWALD. A rinse yes. My hair is dark--not too dark. Mrs. HUNTER. A dirty blonde. *Mrs. OSWALD. Well, thank you. Marina dyed her hair dark, coincidentally, for this testimony and . Marina's responses and how this store resembles closely what Marina recalled the store looked like only add suspicion it was her. (At this point the proceedings of this deposition were adjourned and Messrs. Liebeler and McKenzie, Marina Oswald, the Reporter, Odell Oliver, and Secret Service Agents John Joe Howlett and Forrest Sorrels in charge of the Dallas Secret Service office traveled to Irving, walked through the store heretofore referred to, departed the same and while Standing in front of the store the following proceedings were had:) Mr. LIEBELER. Let the record show that we are resuming the deposition in front of 149 East Irving Boulevard, Irving, Tex., and the record will indicate that Mr. McKenzie and Mrs. Oswald, Mr. Sorrels and Mr. Howlett, the Court Reporter and I walked inside of the building here at 149 East Irving Boulevard and walked around inside and outside, and this is at 3:45 p.m., in an effort to refresh Mrs. Oswald's recollection as to whether or not she has ever been in this store. Mr. LIEBELER. Have you had a chance to go through the store, Marina? *Mrs. OSWALD. No; this is the first time. Mr. LIEBELER. This is the first time you have been here? *Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. And you have now looked at the outside of the store and looked through the inside? *Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Mr. LIEBELER. And you are quite sure you have never been here before? *Mrs. OSWALD. I'm sure I never was here before I am quite sure. Mr. LIEBELER. You are sure of that in spite of the testimony that you heard this morning from Mrs. Whitworth and Mrs. Hunter; is that right? *Mrs. OSWALD. Yes; that's-right. She told how I was dressed with a rose jacket--that's true I had a rose jacket. Mr. LIEBELER. She may have seen you somewhere? *Mrs. OSWALD. Yes; but I never was here maybe she saw me on the street somewhere. She said it looked like she saw me someplace else and that's the reason why I wanted to see rifts store, but maybe I have forgotten by now-- This is less than supportive of Marina never having been in the store. From the used clothing to the old cafe and bus depot accouterments it seems a match like the baby's birth date. Both Edith and Gertrude had trouble identifying Lee. Edith thought maybe it was him in a couple pictures. Gertrude could not say it was Lee from looking at photos. The missing tooth could be something Marina may of hid. (self conscience) or simply did not speak to her? Mr. McKENZIE. Did you hear them talking together? Mrs. WHITWORTH. I never did hear her utter one word. Mrs. HUNTER. Well, yes; I guess so, and she walked on around and I just sat back down and I didn't pay her any attention or anything and they had gone back into the back here and she walked on along right along in here and the little girl was pulling, hanging on to her dress tail and she either told her to be quiet or said "shhh" or something like that, and that is the only thing that I heard the woman say. Kinda hard to see into a closed mouth, yes? Other details like the jacket are of interest, Mrs. OSWALD. Excuse me, do you remember how I was dressed and was I pregnant at that time? Mrs. HUNTER. Yes. *Mrs. OSWALD. And what did I have on? Mrs. HUNTER. All I know is you had on a jacket. *Mrs. OSWALD. What color? Mrs. HUNTER. It was pretty chilly--it was a rose or more of a--it wasn't red. Mrs. OSWALD. Was it blue? Mrs. HUNTER. It was more of a rose. *Mrs. OSWALD. I had a rose short one. Oswald and a gun...I'd say no. That includes the Dial Ryder repair ticket which was to bolster this "plunger" incident. Marina is always a possibility if not then as Ray said somebody was impersonating Oswald and his wife. Anyways the "plunger" on C2766 worked fine, and did not need replacement. And it sure wasn't replaced the first week of Nov 1963 ... or at anytime. CE 2974 is a letter from J. Edgar Hoover to Dr. Lee Rankin, Warren Commission general counsel, which contains information about the examination of CE 139. Mr. Rankin inquired what the term “plunger” meant, whether the firing pin had been replaced, and did the FBI have information on where replacement parts could be found. Hoover informed Rankin that “plunger” was a synonym for firing pin and that because the firing pin on CE 139 had “been used extensively” and that there was “rust on the firing pin and its spring” the pin had not been replaced. Finally, Hoover says the pin was “well oiled” and that the oil had to have been applied after the rust formed. Capper is according to Dial' ticket a plunger was not fixed but a sight was yet C2766' telescopic sight mount was not installed by Irving Sports Shop. The guns and Oswald stuff is so dead in the water it needs flushed. (Plunger not included.) Cheers, Ed
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