Mark Vernon

Now that I have a better grasp of whats going on here I will comment further. The administration of this forum is fine, its the moderators who are over-moderating. Perhaps the admins should review who is capable of unbiased moderation, and who isn't. I have been around here a short time and can recognize who should immediately be removed from this position. If my last post that clearly debunked an attack on me for my opinion is not restored, you will no longer have the ability to moderate any future posts....there wont be any.

Mark, that particular term is not allowed on this Forum. Debate with as much passion as you wish, but please refrain from calling other members liars. Steve I'm glad to see you are moderating again. Did you make Mark's post invisible? Perhaps it would have been better to edit it, I'm curious to see how he thought he had proven Kevin "to be in the least, 100% wrong". Yes, it would have. But what is left is the 'offending' part and whats missing is the susbstance. Great moderating there chief.

Mark, that particular term is not allowed on this Forum. Debate with as much passion as you wish, but please refrain from calling other members liars. Steve I'm glad to see you are moderating again. Did you make Mark's post invisible? Perhaps it would have been better to edit it, I'm curious to see how he thought he had proven Kevin "to be in the least, 100% wrong". Hi Len, Nope, twas not me. I think Evan applied the coup de gras. i was just trying to save Mark from unnecessary grief. Where is my post now?? Did it have too much debunking info for this particular mod? Now I am feeling the uneven hand of this overly zealous moderator, and dont like it one bit.

Mark...it is refreshing to see somebody here who does not buy the OFFICIAL STORY. However, be prepared to see "agents" quickly attack you. Thanks for looking at the facts. Jack Thanks Jack... let them attack all they want, the truth is more powerful than their lies, I just hope for justice to be served in my lifetime.

MIT Engineer Jeff King Says WTC Demolished http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNbwLfczjt8 I guess embedding vids here isnt allowed. Explosion at WTC...or maybe its just a falling desk. "My story was never mentioned in the final report and I felt like I was being put on trial in a court room. They were trying to twist my words and make the story fit only what they wanted to hear" [PDF download] -Firefighter Louie Cacchioli "When I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, ... I saw low-level flashes ... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down ... You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw." - NYFD Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory "It was as if as if they had detonated ... as if they had planned to take down a building, boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom " - NYFD Captain Dennis Tardio "I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there were bombs set in the building." - NYFD Firefighter Louie Cacchioli “There was just an explosion in the south tower. It seemed like on television when they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.” - NYFD Firefighter Richard Banaciski "It almost sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight" - NYFD Firefighter Thomas Turilli "Heard explosions coming from . . . the south tower . . . There were about ten explosions. . . . We then realized the building started to come down" - NYFD Firefighter Craig Carlson "It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit. . . . We originally had thought there was like an internal detonation, explosives, because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down" - NYFD Firefighter Edward Cachia "Somewhere around the middle . . . there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode ... With each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building" - NYFD Captain Karin Deshore "A debate began to rage because . . . many people had felt that possibly explosives had taken out 2 World Trade" - NYFD Firefighter Christopher Feny These people are all hallucinating? Or maybe they just dont know what an explosion sounds like? In any case Kevin M. West, you have been proven to be in the least, 100% wrong, and at worst you are <removed>. Either way, I'm done with you.

My apologies Mr. Healy, I never intentionally mispell anothers name...though I have to admit not to know what you mean by I have to do better than that in political conspiracy debate. If you are looking to joust me after every post I make here , you are free to do so, but don't expect me to respond in any timely fashion. I'm here to spend some of my recreation time reading topics and opinions that are of interest. If you have a problem with me personally, take it up with me in PM.

we know you've discussed experience on internet forums, yet I see no quotes, rather silly -- to whom are you talking to, Mr. Vernon? I am talking to the person who posted before me. Are you seriously contending you did not know this?, or is this your way to say that you are my arch enemy, and that I will have to deal with you at every post I make?

Mr. Vernon, I suppose if I told you Ms. Dixie probably has well over 7,000 posts spread over a few JFK assassination research forums (public and private) you wouldn't be offended would you? One of the leading women JFK assassination researchers on the net, I might add. You've managed to scribble out a few posts here and you've already found yourself in a wee-bit of controversy.... Now, if you have JFK related material needing review or if you'd like, strut your stuff in a few assassination related threads, please do -- we await being bolled over with your brilliance... Carry on sir! Your's in research... p.s. do you have a relative named Bob Vernon? I hope so. Do you have a relative named Patrick Healey? Hes a private investigator. Nice of you to play the white knight, im sure its appreciated. But whatever you are going for, missed. My stated opinion that Ms. Dixie is an infrequent contributer to this site still stands, I don't really care how many posts she has made at other forums, we are talking about THIS forum. Your attempt to belittle my infrequent scribbles is ironic as well as humorous. Touche.

To be offended by something that clearly has nothing to do with you is what made me say what I said...you are a very infrequent contributer to this forum, post counts do not lie. That is not to ridicule you for it, just stating an obvious fact. I am on forums that people make 20-100 posts per day at, that would laugh until they cried if I told them someone with 200 posts over 4+ years felt offended by a generic type of email from a site administrator. I am only stating my opinion of course, and while it doesn't have my usual sense of humor injected, I meant no harm or ill in the reply.

I am not some newcomer to investigating 9/11 and have no desire or feel compelled to read anything from organizations that are not independent and unbiased. You are stating the government version of 9/11....a clearly biased point of view, that has been heavily debunked.... I do not intend to go tit for tat with you, as you clearly have more time to waste on this topic than I care to. What is fact is the 9/11 commission was ridiculously biased, they did not take any account of eyewitnesses that didn't spew the official account. This is well documented, and anything you say to the otherwise is just absurd. A new investigation, a transparent and honest one is what is needed, and that will not happen until the current administration is out of office...if ever. We are still waiting for the evidence that 'proves' it was carried out by OBL. Since this event is the firestorm that is responsible for the Patriot Act, MC Act, the AFG and Iraq war...and is a direct assault on the civil liberties of AMERICAN Citizens, we have not only the right, but the responsibilty to question every aspect and conclusion. I will ask you a very direct question that has a very precise answer.... was the Patriot Act drafted before or after 9/11? And how many that voted on it actually read it? Take your time.

JHC....you have 200 posts in over 4 years on this site.... get over yourself. There was nothing offensive in that email...in fact, it was one of the most respectful and informative/intelligent emails I have ever received from a site administrator. Don't take yourself so seriously....I don't.

I think Jack is overreacting...I didnt feel that email was directed to me personally but thankful I got it because I had forgotten about this place... All forums of any size have these kind of issues periodically....the disgruntled poster who forms a clique and tries to start a revolt, and wind up forming a new forum of their own who then turn on eachother and spontaneously combust...lol...not saying you are doing that Jack! Dont shoot. Its just an observation from 10+ years on message boards in general. A solid admin. and mod base easily withstands these, and continues on...I believe the higher ups on this board are above average maturity wise and give the respect they get. Back to my lurk mode for awhile.

Fair enough comment, Mark, but can you support any of what you say? To simply state it is your opinion is one thing. We most all have opinions with respect to 9/11 in regard to any complicity of governments, if evidence is missing or faked, motives, etc. Supporting those opinions to claim they are fact ("... defies all known physics...") is another matter. Perhaps there is evidence to suggest your opinions are correct. Perhaps there is evidence to conclusively support your opinion. On the other hand, there might be evidence to suggest you are wrong, or conclusively refute your opinion. So, is it just an honest opinion, or is it more? Do you believe you can present supporting evidence for what you believe? Until we get someone to sign a confession, all we will have is opinions Evan. Unfortunately, or fortunately for the guilty, the debris from WTC was quickly removed and recycled....had it been taken for evaluation and testing, we could have by now atleast determined what kind of explosives were used...if any of course. In fact, this debris was removed illegally as there is a law that makes tragedies such as 9/11 be investigated to determine if any changes to existing statutes needs to be changed or updated to prevent a similar occurance in the future....Im sure you all remember TWA 800, exploded over LI Sound and put back together piece by piece in a hangar...at great cost and manpower to determine what caused the plane to explode. Again, another fair point... but I question if it might be a little more than opinions? Each side of the fence can gather qualified people to support their own opinions. So what do we do? I'd suggest for those of us that do not hold the qualifications to make a professional determination, listen to both sides. Listen to the qualified people on both sides. Then look at the proportions of qualified people on both sides, and use that as a guide. Because more qualified people hold a certain opinion, it does not make it certain... but it does indicate that on the balance of probability, one side of the argument is more likely. We can use this as a guide for us to decide who is right, and who is wrong. That's all any of us can do in those respects. I have no explaination as to who or what caused these towers and building 7 to come down....and neither did the 9/11 commission... people who want a fair and independent investigation are well within normal intelligence parameters and should not have to deal with angry sheep who question our patriotism.

No actually, they aren't explosions. If you watch the video, the velocity of the clouds of smoke & dust being ejected is a couple orders of magnitude too slow to be an explosion. I can see how you think it looks like an explosion from the still frame though. As yourself this... If those are explosions, why do they start after the building starts to collapse, not before? Cause has to come before effect. How is it that you can say there were no explosions for a fact? Are you stating opinion, or do you have some other kind of supporting documentation?

Fair enough comment, Mark, but can you support any of what you say? To simply state it is your opinion is one thing. We most all have opinions with respect to 9/11 in regard to any complicity of governments, if evidence is missing or faked, motives, etc. Supporting those opinions to claim they are fact ("... defies all known physics...") is another matter. Perhaps there is evidence to suggest your opinions are correct. Perhaps there is evidence to conclusively support your opinion. On the other hand, there might be evidence to suggest you are wrong, or conclusively refute your opinion. So, is it just an honest opinion, or is it more? Do you believe you can present supporting evidence for what you believe? Until we get someone to sign a confession, all we will have is opinions Evan. Unfortunately, or fortunately for the guilty, the debris from WTC was quickly removed and recycled....had it been taken for evaluation and testing, we could have by now atleast determined what kind of explosives were used...if any of course. In fact, this debris was removed illegally as there is a law that makes tragedies such as 9/11 be investigated to determine if any changes to existing statutes needs to be changed or updated to prevent a similar occurance in the future....Im sure you all remember TWA 800, exploded over LI Sound and put back together piece by piece in a hangar...at great cost and manpower to determine what caused the plane to explode.

This has already been discussed ad-infinium on other threads and has little relevance to Woods space beams theory. Numerous highly qualified structural engineers who have closely studied the collapses disagree with your conclusions. The buildings collapsed downwards because that is the direction of gravity. You think collapsing in on itself would use more energy than tipping over? Lets see your or someone else's calcs. Its already tipping over, are you suggesting it isnt??...and I dont really care how many "highly qualified structural engineers" you run out, I can produce any amount of "highly qualified structural engineers" that say differently. Are those not explosions? Why don't you tell me what you see in that picture, instead of being a parrot to someone elses opinion?

This is start of failure....it is obvious to me explosions are present and the subsequent collapse is not spontaneous. It also defies known physics...buildings damaged non symetrically, do not fall symetrically....and they do not fall into the path of greatest resistance.

This is an obvious farce.

The same email was sent to every member of the forum. It did not accuse you personally of being involved in such a conspiracy. He does fit the profile....

How could she possibly know all this? My guess is she has seen the Zapruder film a million times, like all of us, as this is depicted in the film.

This is not fact, its her recollection or opinion... there is video documentation that the secret service agent assigned to the right-rear of JFK was called away minutes before he was killed....that is a fact.

And she was right....He was with the President right up until he shot him in the head.

Nor will you, Bill, the film's a fake! How do you arrive that this conclusion? Instead of 'faking' this film, wouldnt it have been better for them to destroy it and have no video record? Seems to me without the Z film, there is no conspiracy at all...it dies on Nov. 22, 1963.

Does this forum allow youtube embedding? There is a great series 'The Men Who Killed Kennedy' that aired on A&E a few years back, Id like to post them, not just links.

Where is the poll?