Mark Haley

Well, unless all the people lined up waving excitedly on the kerb suddenly ran out of shot and were replaced by a completely different set of onlookers, the brief clip purporting to be the turn onto Elm is a re-creation and not a part of Zapruder's original film.

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,8916.0.html or http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,12177.0.html 337 pages of Prayer Man discussion to get your teeth into.

Excellent news. Very pleased to hear the site will continue.

Re Lovelady's shirt. Buttoned or unbuttoned? There is a very brief moment in the Martin film where Lovelady moves into a position where you can see his shirt is unbuttoned. I'm currently on an iPad and not able to post a frame capture. However there is an article on precisely this subject here: http://22november1963.org.uk/oswald-on-tsbd-front-steps I don't believe that 'Prayer Man' could be seen from Altgens position in 'Altgens 6' so it seems clear to me that Lovelady isn't Prayer Man. From the footage that is available I think it's highly unlikely that Prayer Man could have seen the President actually get shot. For a few moments whoever it is wouldn't have been aware what was actually happening. I think Oswald might have been Prayer Man but don't know how it can ever be proven with 100% certainty. If it was Oswald imagine what must've been going through his mind as the situation dawned on him.

It helps to see other photos from different angles to have a clearer perspective where everybody is. While this frame from the Weigman film isn't exactly the same moment, the President's car has just gone past, a couple of ladies seem to be reacting and a man is looking back over his shoulder obviously distracted by something behind him. Clearly Prayer Man wouldn't be seen from Altgens position I think the only part of the black man's body visible from Altgen's position would be his head. His neck is obscured by the hair of another person standing further along Elm St which also makes it impossible to actually see if Lovelady's arm is crossing in front of the black man. Lovelady is too far away from the black man for that to happen anyway. Whoever Prayer Man is, he didn't see the President get shot and wouldn't have been immediately aware of what had happened. If it is Oswald, his mind must have begun racing as things started to dawn on him...

This could shake everything up..? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2512339/Will-footage-second-shooter-prove-Lee-Harvey-Oswald-did-NOT-act-JFK-shooting.html

From the Independent Newspaper, UK. Sept 2nd. "Parkland is the name of the Dallas Hospital to which President John F Kennedy was rushed after he was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald on November 22nd 1963. “It’s a xxxxty place to die,” we hear one character murmur in Peter Landesman’s new ensemble drama, produced by Tom Hanks and set in Dallas at the time of Kennedy’s assassination. The film is very well filmed in a verite style reminiscent of DA Pennebaker documentaries of the early 60s. There is constant use of handheld camera and lots of sweaty close-ups of panicked FBI agents and medical staff. The performances are full blooded and Landesman includes details that are bound to be fascinating to anyone interested in the circumstances in which JFK died. Unfortunately, that doesn’t mean Parkland works as a drama. Landesman offers us a sophisticated and meticulously detailed historical reconstruction that, as storytelling, remains disappointingly inert. Early in the film, just before the motorcade arrives in Dallas, we are introduced to Abraham Zapruder, getting ready to film the President with his Bell & Howell 8mm camera. As played by Paul Giamatti, he is a sweet natured, Mr Magoo-like man who is utterly traumatised when he ends up recording the famous footage of Kennedy’s death. Forrest Sorrels, head of the Secret Service in Dallas and played with grim intensity by Billy Bob Thornton, is desperate to get hold of the footage. In one brilliantly shot sequence in the hospital operating room, we see Dr Jim Carrico (Zac Effron) and a small army of nurses struggling desperately to keep Kennedy alive as blood spattered secret service agents and Jackie Kennedy in that pink dress hover in the background. Landesman cross-cuts between police offices, the hospital, Zaprudder’s office and the motel at which assassin Lee Harvey Oswald’s deluded mother is staying. There is a poignant sequence in which Robert Oswald (James Badge Dale) meets his brother (Jeremy Strong.) All that Lee Harvey Oswald can think to talk about is that his daughter needs new shoes. We learn that the Secret Agents had to rip up the seats in Air Force One to make space for Kennedy’s coffin. (They couldn’t bear to have it stored in the hold as if it was just another piece of luggage.) We see the bitter dispute between the Dallas coroner, who wants to do an autopsy, and the secret agents desperate to get Kennedy’s body back to Washington. There is a reconstruction of Lee Harvey Oswald’s own funeral at which photographers acted as pall bearers because there were no other mourners. We see FBI agent James Hosty destroying evidence of Oswald’s communications with the FBI. All this background detail is fine but seems inconsequential given the magnitude of the event at the heart of the film, namely Kennedy’s death. It doesn’t help, either, that with so many characters flitting in and out of the film, there is no time to develop any of them in any depth."

Fascinating thread. From the close up crop above it looks to me like Prayer Man turns as if to head back into the building At the final frames I think that is his neck your seeing.

I've been following the debate on goal line technology for sometime. Today FIFA have made a decision that they intend to use 'GoalControl' at the next World Cup. An elaborate system of 14 cameras that follow the ball and can signal to the Referee that the ball has crossed the line within a second. 'Hawkeye' aren't entirely out of the equation. The FA may well decide to use them instead for Premier League games. From day one I've been all for the idea. There have been too many instances since Geoff Hurst famously hit the underside of the bar in the 1966 World Cup Final and, nowadays, too much at stake. Michel Platini's nonsensical statement that "it only happens once every 40 years" is entirely that - nonsensical. The argument against goal line technology is that football should be a game that is played under exactly the same conditions whether you're on the New Olympic Stadium pitch or Wanstead Flats. Clearly not many grounds will be able to afford the estimated £170,000 start up costs. The further down the football pyramid you go, the less likely you'll see goal line technology. However, I've come up with an idea that may get round that... My suggestion for retro goal line technology: A second goal line the width of a ball behind the actual goal line. (Maybe light blue to differentiate it) If the ball touches/crosses the second goal line. The Ref (or his assistants )would be better able to judge that it's a goal. Let's see how the Referee and his Lino' might have seen things in the last World Cup. (Yes England yet again...) The cost ? A tin of paint and a ruler...

You'd be better off using a photo hosting website. For example photobucket.com. Upload the images there, without reducing the size, then link to them here.

This episode is quickly turning into a disaster for the BBC. However, their main rivals ITV will be mortified that one of their presenters, Phillip Schofield, committed such an inexcusable faux pax on live television that has been widely and justifiably condemned by journalists, politicians... pretty much everybody. In fairness to Cameron, the last thing he could've expected to have been handed by Schofield ( who presents 'Dancing On Ice' and the occasional Quiz Show when he isn't presenting the light and frothy 'This Morning' show) was a list of suspected peadophiles he'd found in a few minutes looking on the Internet. Cameron's exact spur of the moment reaction "There is a danger if we are not careful that this can turn into a sort of witch-hunt, particularly about people who are gay" is understandable given the accuser is a man and the accused also a man. It's also potentially enlightening. We'll see... In every interview I've seen since Cameron has omitted the gay reference.

That's from Robert Groden's book 'The Killing Of A President'.

Sorry to hear this news. RIP Jack .

I'm at the back, second in from the left John. Regulars here might be interested to know that John Richardson (first on the left) was officially the first person in the UK to hear that JFK had been shot at. John's first job when he left school was as office boy in the Reuters London office. One of his tasks was to watch the 'ticker' machine and take any important breaking news through to the editors. He was just finishing up for the day when the ticker tape machine kicked in...

Yes, it's almost un-readable these days. I think editorially they are aiming at the people who actually buy newspapers these days. Hence the deluge of articles about 'Soaps, reality shows and X-Factor' You're right though, the JFK assassination crops up fairly frequently. I made it on to the sports pages a couple of years back. So, purely to lighten the mood, check this out

Sorry to hear you've had a health scare Duncan, hope your recuperation goes well. MH

Most of the right side of Lovelady's shirt is obscured by the black man's head. The little we can actually see certainly isn't "billowing like a sail". As for the man with the missing face - B, I'm sure most people who have looked at this photo have wondered what happened there. In the stabilised gif that was posted here by Robin Unger (post # 625) and blown up by Duncan MacRae (post # 627), somebody clearly waves a towel/handkerchief as the President's limo turns the corner. Could that person still have been waving (maybe at LBJ) when Altgens took his photo and obscured B's face ? MH

Lovelady appears to be smoking at 3m 06 in the video. If he kept his cigarette packet in the shirt pocket that might explain his shirt hanging a bit loose as he leans forward in altgens...

And a group shot:

This is the man Thomas refers to in an earlier post. He was literally viewable for a second during the Italian documentary (at 1hr 04m 54 secs) but intriguingly ducked his head down the instant he saw the camera.

"The Clifton tape has been professionally digitized and a copy is being donated by the Raab Collection to the National Archives and the John F. Kennedy Library so the public will have access to the material even if the original tape is sold to a private collector."

By co-incidence today I noticed a small paragraph in Anthony Summers 'The Kennedy Conspiracy' book In the 'Sources and Notes' chapter on P586 there is a reference to the April 24th edition of the Dallas Times-Herald reporting a speech LBJ gave the previous evening predicting the President would visit Dallas sometime soon. It correllates with P262 of the same book. The same day as the newspaper article was printed Oswald set off for New Orleans.

I'm looking at a dark haired woman stood underneath (to the right) of a light coloured sign with a dark arrow pointing left. Something has caught her attention and she's looking up for it.

McCann benefited more from the re-appointment of Ferguson Jnr than any other player at Posh. Ferguson switched him to playing in front of the back 4 where he quickly excelled. He also contributed some vital goals, scoring in each of the 3 play off games. Moving on, I think Sears showed enough out on the right wing (and scoring a couple of goals) after returning from his loan spells to warrant a run in the side next season. I'm mystified as to why Avram Grant put Hines out there instead of him on several occasions during the run in. But then I'm mystified by a bunch of things... MH

Just an observation from Bernice's post 01:18 Jean Hill "Q: Uh huh. You were both looking right at the presidential car, then? A: Yes, we were looking right at the President. We were looking at his face." Not according to Zapruder. Hill was looking to her right (presumably at one of the motorcycle cops).