David Von Pein

Marcus, Why wasn't the "real assassin" seen by anybody coming down those same back stairs? I guess you think the real killer(s) must have just stayed up on the Floor Of Death for several extra minutes, running the great risk of being caught right there on the sixth floor. Is that it?

I see that Sandy still hasn't given up on his very silly notion about both Lovelady & Shelley telling a pack of lies to the WC. Mr. Larsen can't seem to accept the simple notion that Lovelady and Shelley merely provided more details in their later (1964) statements than they did in their earlier statements. (As discussed years ago at the link below.) http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/Shelley-And-Lovelady

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You're not really suggesting that these photos below are implying that all three of these Dealey Plaza witnesses (Abe Zapruder, Bill Newman, and Gayle Newman) saw the "back of JFK's head" blown out, are you? Because these hands-on demonstrations are showing no such thing, of course:

Exactly!! The big question I have now regarding Victoria E. Adams is: Why on Earth would she have told author Barry Ernest (in the early 2000s, was it?) that she had definitely not seen Shelley & Lovelady just after she got to the first floor of the TSBD on 11/22/63? Prior to her interviews with Ernest, had her memory of events been so diminished that she had actually thought the Warren Commission had added things to her sworn testimony? I suppose the "fading memory" explanation is always a possibility to consider. (Victoria passed away in November 2007. She was 66.) Also, I'm wondering what Barry Ernest's opinion was/is of Victoria's "mental state" when he interviewed her? Did her memory of the events seem clear and vivid? Or was it somewhat shaky and murky? (I'm just wondering.)

But the jacket can't possibly have the bus transfer in it that he got from McWatters. So what the heck are you talking about (re: Oswald wanting to save money on his bus fare before he ever exits the TSBD)?

Why have you decided to just make up this "10 seconds" figure? You know full well that Adams testified she stayed at the 4th-floor window for "15 to 30 seconds". So why are you now pretending it was as little as ten? Plus, there's this 2011 info from conspiracy theorist Sean Murphy: "Sandra Styles claimed she told Ernest what she was now telling me: that she and Victoria Adams did *not* go to the rear stairs anything close to as quickly as Victoria had claimed." -- Sean Murphy; January 27, 2011

But that was only AFTER he left the TSBD. You've got him desperately trying to get his jacket BEFORE he ever switched from the bus to the taxi. You've got your chronology all messed up here.

Any other nitpicky points you want to bring up? I've got to give you credit though, Marjan. You've posted more hunks of pure speculation (aka: fantasy) in these last 24 hours on this forum than anyone else I can ever think of. Congrats.

Huh?? What's that got to do with his blue jacket? Are you suggesting he had a "Get On The Bus Free" ticket in his blue jacket?

JEAN DAVISON SAID: I have a question for anyone who accepts Vickie Adams' time line and believes that she came downstairs before Truly & Baker had reached the freight elevator on the 1st floor. If she's right, how does her story prove that Oswald didn't come down those stairs? In the WC version, Baker spotted Oswald just after each man had reached the second floor landing. That means that while Truly & Baker were rushing up from the 1st floor to the second, Oswald would've presumably been hurrying from about the 3rd floor to the 2nd. So where were Adams and Styles during that time, according to Adams? Already outside the building! Can someone explain how her time line prevents Oswald from using those stairs? DAVID VON PEIN SAID: It doesn't prevent Oswald from using those same stairs. And that is something I have also pointed out in my posts in the past: "I'll say this regarding Vickie Adams' timeline....The more I think about this subject, the more I realize that even if Adams DID descend those stairs as quickly as she said she did, that particular scenario really does no harm whatsoever to the "Oswald Did It" conclusion. Why? Because...then Adams and Styles very likely BEAT Lee Harvey Oswald to the stairs. Hence, it's likely that Adams & Styles were always AHEAD of Oswald on their descent down the stairs. And if Adams & Styles were really THAT fast at getting to the first floor, then they could have possibly beaten Baker & Truly too, with B&T only getting on the stairs after A&S had vacated the stairwell." -- DVP; February 17, 2011

I don't recall her saying any such thing in her 1966 interview. (But maybe she did and I just missed it.) But here's what Adams told the WC: Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway? Miss ADAMS - Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately. Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was, or do you think it took you to get from the window to the top of the fourth floor stairs? Miss ADAMS - I don't think I can answer that question accurately, because the time approximation, without a stopwatch, would be difficult. Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it took you to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor? Miss ADAMS - I would say no longer than a minute at the most.

Why not? We know Baker & Truly DID briefly emerge on the 4th floor during their journey thru the building. We merely need to accept these possible alternative scenarios: 1. Baker & Truly were both inside the lunchroom with Oswald on the 2nd floor at the precise moment when Adams & Styles were also on the 2nd floor making their mad dash toward the ground floor.....and, therefore, A&S didn't see B&T (or Oz). or.... 2. Dorothy Garner got the chronology mixed up SEVEN MONTHS LATER (on June 2, 1964) when she tried to reconstruct the timeline for Assistant United States Attorney Martha Joe Stroud.

Boy, Oswald was sure desperate to get that jacket, wasn't he? But.....why?

From a 2011 discussion (which includes participation by Barry Ernest; see link below)..... DAVID V.P. SAID: With respect to Vickie Adams, the ONLY thing a person needs to accept in order to have Oswald on the back stairs within one to two minutes after the President's assassination is to accept the almost certain fact that Victoria Adams was simply inaccurate in her time estimate about when she and Sandra Styles were on the back staircase. And if she's off by a mere ONE MINUTE, or even less, then her whole story unravels and it then becomes quite easy to accept the fact that Oswald used the back stairs just after shooting President Kennedy from the sixth floor. The key to pretty much knowing without a doubt that Adams and Styles were on the stairs only AFTER Lee Oswald used the same stairs is not really Oswald himself--but Roy Truly and Marrion Baker. Because if Adams was really on the stairs as early as she said she was, she would have had virtually no choice but to have seen (or heard) the two men who we know for a fact WERE on those stairs within about 60 to 75 seconds of the assassination -- Truly and Baker. Since Adams saw nobody and heard nobody, the very likely solution is that she was mistaken about her timing (which couldn't be a more common error with human beings), and she was on the stairs AFTER all three men (Oswald, Baker, and Truly) had already utilized the same stairs. David Von Pein February 14, 2011

It's actually a very good movie (accuracy-wise), with very few mistakes. Some 1978 cars are shown on the street in a couple of scenes, and the Hertz sign atop the TSBD says "Fords" instead of "Chevrolets". But those aren't really things I would regard as mistakes, because they couldn't really be corrected within the type of TV Movie budget they had to work with. Also please note that the real Jim Leavelle is handcuffed to Oswald (Frederic Forrest) in the film.

See one of those stairway doors in action in the cued-up video clip below (which is from a TV movie that was filmed inside the TSBD itself in 1978):

Thank you, Bill Fite, for posting the link to the 1966 interview with assassination witness Victoria Adams. Adams, of course, is a witness that a lot of conspiracy theorists love to prop up as "proof" that Lee Harvey Oswald could not possibly have gone down the back stairs of the Book Depository just after the assassination due to the fact that Miss Adams did not see or hear anyone on those stairs when she and Sandra Styles used them to descend from the 4th floor to the 1st floor very shortly after JFK was shot on 11/22/63. But the notion that the entire case against Lee Oswald should be flushed down the toilet merely due to the estimated timeline of events as described by Vickie Adams is a very silly notion indeed....as I talk about in great detail on my webpage LINKED HERE. I think the most interesting thing that is heard in the 1966 interview with Adams is when she talks about the three mistakes that were made by the Warren Commission during the time she was providing her testimony to the Commission in April of 1964. And the three errors that Adams mentions are things that are completely innocuous and relatively unimportant in nature, with none of the three items dealing with any substantive matters at all. And yet, to hear many conspiracy theorists tell it, Victoria Adams was one of the many witnesses who has said she had key portions of her published testimony "altered" or "changed" by the Warren Commission. But if that had truly been the case, then why on Earth wouldn't she have said something to Mark Lane and Mort Sahl about that very important fact during her fairly lengthy 1966 interview when she starts talking about the various things that the Commission got wrong in her published testimony? But instead of raking the Commission over hot coals for "altering" or "eliminating" some of the things she had actually said during her testimony, she didn't say a single word in her 1966 interview about the Warren Commission altering anything that anyone could possibly consider to be of great value or substance whatsoever. She talked only about three very unimportant things that the Commission stenographer got wrong, which are things that I would classify as merely "typos" and nothing more than that. After hearing Vickie Adams' total silence in 1966 when it comes to certain parts of her WC testimony allegedly being "altered" before it was publicly published (relating specifically to Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady), it makes me wonder if this rarely-heard 1966 interview with Victoria Adams has inadvertently debunked (at least in part) yet another conspiracy-flavored myth that has endured for decades. That being: the "Altered Testimony" myth (at least with respect to Vickie Adams' testimony specifically, at any rate). And we must keep in mind when listening to Adams speak in the '66 interview that she most certainly doesn't come across as a fan or a supporter of the Warren Commission in any way whatsoever. Therefore, I think it's also quite obvious that her complete silence about any alleged "Shelley/Lovelady alterations" during the interview was not brought about as a result of Miss Adams being frightened of what might happen to her if she dared speak out in a negative manner about Earl Warren's Commission.

If you'd like to hear Rob Reiner misrepresent the evidence concerning the events surrounding Lee Harvey Oswald's movements on November 22nd and the "Coke" and the "Lunchroom Encounter", then CLICK HERE to listen to Part 8 of Reiner's 10-part "Who Killed JFK?" podcast. Anyone who is not familiar with the things that Oswald told the Dallas Police after his arrest, and anybody also unfamiliar with the details concerning the Coca-Cola and Lunchroom Encounter topics, will probably tend to believe the untrue things that Mr. Reiner has uttered in Part 8 of his conspiracy-oriented podcast series, such as when Reiner tells us that Oswald told the police that he was on the second floor of the Book Depository when the President was shot. But Oswald most certainly did not tell the police he was on the second floor at the precise time of the shooting. He specifically told Dallas Police Homicide Captain J.W. Fritz that he had been eating his lunch on the first floor of the building when JFK's motorcade passed the Depository.... From Captain Fritz' typewritten report: "I asked him [Lee Oswald] what part of the building he was in at the time the President was shot, and he said that he was having his lunch about that time on the first floor." -- Warren Report; Page 600 In his podcast, Reiner has utilized some sleight-of-hand to try and make his podcast listeners think that Oswald must have been located on the second floor all throughout the key minutes before, during, and after the assassination of President Kennedy. Because when Reiner selectively reads this direct quote from the Hosty/Bookhout FBI report that appears on page 613 of the Warren Commission's Final Report.... "[Oswald] went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch".... ....Mr. Reiner conveniently omitted the very next sentence that is written in that same Hosty/Bookhout report, which is this sentence: "Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building." --Warren Report; Page 613 So, as we can see, Oswald's "alibi" wasn't that he was on the second floor when JFK was shot. Oswald claimed he was on the first floor at that time. In addition, Mr. Reiner's utilization of the wholly unreliable and inconsistent story of Carolyn Arnold is another sign that Reiner's arguments are mighty weak ones, as I discuss HERE. And Rob Reiner engages in an even bigger and more blatant misrepresentation of the facts when he inaccurately claims that Roy Truly and Marrion Baker saw Lee Oswald "sitting in the lunchroom with a Coke in his hand". But anyone who knows the true facts relating to the testimony of both Depository Superintendent Roy S. Truly and Dallas Police Officer Marrion L. Baker, knows that Oswald was most definitely not "sitting" when he was seen by Truly and Baker on 11/22/63. He was standing. Plus, neither Truly nor Baker testified that Oswald had a "Coke in his hand". Mr. Reiner, like many other conspiracy theorists worldwide, has merely accepted as fact the long-ago-debunked myth about Oswald holding a Coke during the lunchroom encounter with Baker and Truly. Lots of additional facts concerning the Lunchroom Encounter and The Coca-Cola and Oswald's Whereabouts At 12:30 PM On November 22, 1963, sans any speculative conspiratorial spin, can be found at the link below: DVP's JFK Archives / Index / Lee Harvey Oswald

And that means, according to you, that Hugh should Burn In Hell, is that it Sandy? What a ridiculous over-the-top emotion. You should be ashamed of posting such garbage on this forum. (And you, an "admin"/moderator yet. It's disgusting.) BTW / FWIW, Mr. Aynesworth was always very nice and pleasant and helpful in the few conversations I had with him via e-mail. RIP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Aynesworth