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Jim Hargrove

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  1. One piece of evidence suggesting the Mexico City charade was not just an opportunistic after-the-fact creation by David Phillips is the apparent indication that on Oct. 3rd and 4th, when one Oswald was at the Downtown YMCA and Texas Employment Commission in Dallas, another Oswald was nearly 400 miles to the south in Alice, Texas. This Oswald apparently told radio station KOPY personnel that “he had just come from Mexico.” If true, this suggests the Mexico City frame-up pre-dated the efforts by Phillips to exploit it. One other possibility is that Hoover just made up the “just come from Mexico” remark to tighten the evidentiary noose around “Lee Harvey Oswald,” but, if memory serves (and it often doesn’t) , in an interview independent of the FBI, KOPY manager Stewart also repeated the Mexico claim. Does anyone remember that?
  2. Yes, indeed! Unless he did a perfectly adequate job marking a trail to Mexico City, but then it was discovered that the evidence created a Really Serious Problem. In that case, as usual, the evidence would have to disappear and be replaced by improved evidence. *IF* Ruby’s Oswald traveled to Mexico City to lay low there while, say, an impostor went to the consulates using his name, I can only speculate what the problem with the bread crumbs from Dallas to MC might have been. One guess, though, is that the real evidence of a Dallas to MC trip might have conflicted with other real evidence of a second Oswald leaving New Orleans. How would the FBI explain, for example, two bus tickets for two Lee Harvey Oswalds departing from New Orleans and Dallas at roughly the same time? In the evidentiary panic, EVERYTHING might get swept under the rug! It’s kind of reminiscent of the two Oswalds timeline problems on the early afternoon of 11/22/63. These guys were good, but they seemed to have occasional problems managing the timeline for their two principals. After all, the framers were dealing with human beings, not chess pieces. *IF* the conspiracy to frame an Oswald in MC occurred before the alleged visits to the consulates, problems like I speculate above could be quite possible, at least in my opinion. Obviously, there is a lot of speculation here.
  3. David, I don’t have your expertise on MC, but isn’t there another possibility here? As you know, there is a lot of evidence that in the summer of 1963, while Classic Oswald® was in New Orleans setting himself up as a Castro-living commie, another LHO was in Dallas working with Jack Ruby. A couple of posts above I put a link to the FBI report saying how a fellow named Odell “James” Estes told the FBI that he worked at the Carousel Club from the last week in June until Sept. 2, 1963. The report indicated that Odell saw LHO many times in the club, including in Ruby’s office, and even took two overnight fishing trips on consecutive weeks with LHO to a lakeside cabin in Mineral Wells. As you know, JA assembled a lot more evidence suggesting one LHO was in Dallas while Classic Oswald was in New Orleans. Now, I don’t believe ANY Oswald actually went to the MC consulates and created the scenes Phillips wanted us to believe in. But it does seem to me quite possible that the LHO who was hanging with Ruby in Dallas was sent at least to the vicinity of Mexico City, all part of the plot to blame the assassination on Castro and Castro-loving “LHO.” My guess is that this Oswald was just told to keep a low profile in a motel or safe house somewhere in or near MC. This would mean, of course, that the FBI/WC would have to fake all or most of the travel evidence, which you have shown they clearly did. Does that strike you as possible?
  4. Sorry, Paul.... I don’t have much to add to the question of the photo on the visa application, but I just learned about the Estes interview yesterday and I wanted to work it in to this thread. Perhaps the segue was confusing, but all sorts of issues about two Oswalds and false Oswalds are being discussed under this topic. As I’m sure you know, there is quite a lot of evidence suggesting one Oswald was seen in and around Ruby’s club at the same time Classic Oswald® was in New Orelans, but much of the evidence, at least that Hoover allowed to survive, seems to be hearsay or at least hearsay-related. This was a direct account by a fellow willing to take a polygraph indicating that he worked with LEE Oswald at the Carousel Club day after day in the summer of 1963, and I think it has been largely overlooked--at least by John A. and me—and I’ll bet a whole lot of other even knowledgeable people.
  5. The amount of disinformation and questionable information surrounding “Lee Harvey Oswald” in this case is simply stunning. Now there is a thread on the Ed Forum even suggesting “Oswald” never roomed at 1026 N. Beckley. Sheesh…. Here’s yet another example. A few days ago Gary Shaw sent John A. a 10-page FBI report on a 1977 interview with a Ruby employee named Odell “James” Estes. Estes told the FBI he worked at the Carousel Club from the last week in June until Sept. 2, 1963. Estes said he saw “Lee Oswald” at the Carousel Club many times during his employment there, including in Jack Ruby’s office. He said he once drove Oswald to Love Field and even took two overnight fishing trips with Oswald to a lakeside cabin near Mineral Wells. He described lengthy talks with this Oswald. Since he (Estes) stopped working at the club on Sept. 2, he was quite certain that the two fishing trips, just a week apart, were both in August 1963. Of course, in August 1963, Classic Oswald® was still in New Orleans. Despite this depiction of “Oswald” being in New Orleans and Dallas simultaneously, an FBI cover memo states that Estes was “willing to submit to a polygraph examination” and “talked very coherently and did not evidence the mannerisms frequently associated with a mentally disturbed individual.” It should be noted that although the 1977 FBI report indicated Estes was “80 percent blind,” in 1963 he could see well enough to drive a car. John and I will be adding this material to the Jack Ruby page on HarveyandLee.net, but until the update is completed, the 10-page report on Odell Estes’ FBI interview can be read on the Mary Ferrell site at this address: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10020&search=%22Odell_Estes%22#relPageId=47&tab=page
  6. Paul, I agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph above, as well as much what follows. Perhaps this view is overly simplistic, but . . . . Both Oswalds (H&L) had roots in Dallas. Beautiful Marina and the couple’s growing family were in Dallas. Ruth Paine was in the Dallas area and, although she may not yet have put the future alleged assassin into the TSBD when Nagel opened fire in that bank, she was already closely involved with the family of the patsy-to-be. George DeMohrenschldt and/or other white Russians were in position to keep a watchful eye on Boris and Natasha, I mean Harvey and Marina. Jack Ruby was in town as well, and apparently had been working with American-born Lee Oswald while Russian-speaking Oswald was in New Orleans framing himself. If “Oswald” was to be the fall guy, why would you want to find a similar cast of characters in another city? How could you be sure that uprooting “Oswald,” or even his whole family, to yet another city would not produce unintended consequences? My opinion is that Dallas was always the first choice for positioning the Official Patsy.® Alice, TX isn’t all that close to San Antonio or Houston, and seeking a job at a radio station isn’t much of a proving ground for a future assassin. Your reasoning for the SE Texas sightings is the most cogent argument I’ve ever heard for them, but I’m still not convinced.
  7. Ron, For what it’s worth, I think John A. agrees with your statement above, at least if I’m remembering discussion(s) with him from a couple of years ago. He felt those plots, if real, were designed to fail. The fact that Paul J. believes differently gives me considerable pause, but it sure seems like a whole lot of effort was put into setting up the Russian-speaking Oswald as far back, and even earlier, than his Aug. 9 altercation with Bringuier, surely a staged event, along with the arrest and television interview. This Oswald’s U.S. stomping grounds were limited to New Orleans and Dallas and environs. Moving the patsy to Chicago, Miami, or Houston just weeks before the hit might appear suspicious and could result in unanticipated consequences. For the whole charade to work, Classic Oswald® just had to be in the right places at the right times, especially on 11/22/63.
  8. Paul, 1. It’s pretty undeniable that evidence of Nagell’s knowledge of the plot pre-dating the assassination is murky at best, but, to me at least, it doesn’t make the timeline impossible. Our “Oswald” was arrested in New Orleans on Aug 9, more than a month prior to Nagell’s arrest. Regardless of how much faith we put into other plots in other cities, many researchers believe the Dallas plot was already underway when “Oswald” was publicly sheep-dipped in NOLA. Even if Dallas was only selected later from among several candidates, isn't it possible that Nagell only knew about the Dallas plot? 2. True enough, but if there once was evidence from G-men that put a fellow who called himself “Oswald” and looked like “Oswald” nearly 400 miles south of where the evidence shows he was on Oct. 3th and 4th, how could that wildly conflicting evidence be allowed to see the light of day? I once spent days going through just one roll from John A’s set of 33 rolls of microfilm from the “FBI Series 2” set published in 1978 by UMI. All of them were allegedly related to the JFK assassination. There were documents shown in the roll I studied not only from the FBI but from the Secret Service, State Department, Treasury Department, and quite possibly local police departments, though I don’t remember that specifically. Hoover had every opportunity to muck around with virtually ALL the documentary evidence, certainly documents from the Feds. From his activities in the hours after the assassination confiscating school and early employment records of “Oswald,” it’s obvious Hoover was trying to cover-up the real story of LHO. 3. No question that if ANY LHO was in Dallas when ANY LHO was supposed to be in Mexico, that evidence had to disappear, but I don’t remember the story about the Dallas Circle Apartments on September 25. That had to be right after New Orleans, or when Harvey was in transit to Texas. Does the evidence look convincing? 6. If Mrs. Glosson was correct, the man with the valid-looking Texas driver’s license was probably LEE, as I said in the thread you linked. Would the cover-up conspirators have risked putting out multiple “Oswalds” with multiple Texas driver’s licenses? Seems too risky to me. The fact that the Warren Commission attorneys couldn’t go to the bother of calling the Texas Dep’t of Public Safety license records department when they had Marina and the Furniture Mart ladies arguing about “Oswald’s” driving history speaks volumes.
  9. Paul, I’ve been trying for five or six days to respond to your post above. Here’s my first attempt at a real reply. 1. Dick Russell is a major H&L supporter. Back in 1993, in Confessions of a Conspiracy Theorist, he wrote, “Not only do we encounter double- and triple-agents, but double- and triple-Oswalds.” I spent a full day with Mr. Russell a year or two ago but neglected to ask him which Oswald he thought Nagell knew, though it is obvious that Nagell interacted with American-born Lee Oswald, not Classic Oswald®. Your thoughts about the Leonov-looking “Oswald” at the Cuban Consulate are interesting, and I wish I could offer better, or even comparable, theories. As so often occurs to me in this case, it all seems to boil down to the question of whose spies do we distrust the least, the answer, of course, being none. 2. Remember, though, that Sonny Stewart at KOPY told the AP (unfiltered by our friends at the Bureau): “It’s a strange thing.... The first time I saw Oswald’s picture on TV I recognized him. It was like a song that you can’t remember the name. When it finally hit me who it was I almost fell on the floor.” There’s no doubt, though, that the mind can play strange tricks on all of us, but that visual ID at least SOUNDED pretty good. Does it bother me that I’m suggesting the Associated Press is a Trusted Source® in this case? Sheesh! 3 and 4. We agree on a lot here, though I’m not convinced Harvey stayed at the YMCA longer than that Thursday night. As always, I seek a scintilla of evidence for other dates of his stay. 5. Indeed, whoever it was, it wasn’t our Marina. 6. Obviously, some of these purported sightings are more convincing than others, just as anyone would suspect. The evidence you present, though, is compelling and mostly new to me. I’ll get back to you ASAP on this. Thanks for the info, especially about intel “backstoppings.” I’m still reading.
  10. David, You raise some fascinating issues, but I wanted to concentrate a little more on the term and cumulative fields from the Benbrook school records you showed immediately above. My eyes aren’t so great, but it looks to me like 103 days present (not 193) on the record on the right above, and I can’t find Room 193. The field on the left in your illustration directly above appears to be the summary of a half school year (87 days present and 1 day absent = 88 days) whereas the record on the right appears to be a full year (103 day present and 87 days absent for a total of 190 days). That’s a lot of absences! I hope your line of research here bears fruit, because I couldn’t agree more that at least some of these school records are FBI forgeries. Which makes me wonder.... My bet would be FBI agents were told to ask for blank forms of each of the documents they were collecting from schools and early employers of “Oswald.” “Just for testing,” dontcha know. However, some of these records at the time the FBI confiscated the originals were well over a decade old and, at least in some cases, the institutions surely no longer had existing blank forms matching the filled out items. Perhaps we should be looking at these things with a microscope looking for indications that existing data was whited out so that new, improved data could be entered. I’ll try to start doing that! Again, thank you for this work. My bet is this is the first time a serious researcher has looked into LHO records dating as far back as Benbrook since John A. did it a quarter century ago, without the benefit of a modern internet. Please... keep it coming!
  11. John, Thank you for this detailed information. I had no idea the papers were so well organized. Looks to me like someone would need to look through a total of 6 folders: Correspondence with Gardos, Grace Blair & Emil (Box 5, Folder 2) and 5 others Correspondence Folders: (Box 1, Folders 2-4; Box 4 Folders 3A-3B) If there is still an active curator of this material, perhaps we could describe what we are looking for and seek guidance. Otherwise, it would probably be pretty expensive to get all this material copied and a personal visit would be in order. Thanks again!
  12. DJ, Thank you for your hard work on these elementary school records. This could be important new research clearly suggesting the forgery of school records for Oswald, but I’m having a few difficulties following your presentation, and I wondered if you could help me understand just one small part of it. Let’s look at image 1, showing us Oswald’s record for the term beginning 1/27/47 on the top row and comparing it to what should be the same data from his cumulative record (image 3) shown in reverse on the second row. There are some obvious differences, but…. Are we comparing apples to apples? Let’s look at the first three headings after “DATE OF ENTRY” from the top grade rows of images 1 and 3. For image 1, those headings appear to be: School, Grade, and Days Present. For image 3, the headings are: School, Grade, and Room. Already, the third element is completely different, suggestion one row cannot be pasted directly underneath another with an expectation of the data being identical. Another example concerns Oswald’s grades in health and phys ed. Both the term data on the top line of image 1 and the cumulative record in image 3 show that Oswald received an A in both subjects, But image 1 suggests they are different because the columns simply do not line up. I do believe you may be on to something important here, but your graphical presentation, as far as I can tell tonight, doesn’t yet prove it, at least to me, although it is true that there are eight Bs listed on the top line of image 1 and nine Bs on the line beneath it. Can you make the distinctions you are drawing a bit clearer. Thanks again for your work on this.
  13. But, as you discovered in the Tarrant County records, a HARVEY OSWALD was attending school and living with momma Marguerite at 1505 Eighth Ave. in Fort Worth during the 1947-48 school year. (Let’s not even get into the Nancy Lee mystery at the moment.) This is a jarring discovery for several reasons. One is that there is some indication that the Russian-speaking kid who was eventually killed by Jack Ruby preferred to be called Harvey in school, but there is no doubt that John A. believes the fellow who lived at 1505 Eighth Ave. in the late 1940s was the American-born LEE Oswald, living with his mother, Marguerite. In H&L John wrote (p.24): While Marguerite was residing in Covington, Edwin Ekdahl moved out of the Worth Hotel and into an apartment at 1505 8th Avenue in Fort Worth, apparently with another woman. 1947 In early 1947 Marguerite and Ekdahl ended their 8-month separation and re­united. Lee was withdrawn from the Covington Grammar School on January 23, 1947 and returned with his mother to Fort Worth. Marguerite enrolled Lee at Lily B. Clayton Elementary School (Fort Worth-school #19), located at 2000 Park Place Avenue, and Lee began attending Lois Lowimore's first grade class on January 27.64 52-10/11 Ekdahl, Marguerite, and Lee lived 5 blocks east of the school in Ekdahl's up­ stairs apartment at 1505 8th Avenue.6 The short, dumpy, heavy-set "Marguerite Oswald" im­poster, who was never married to Ekdahl, told the Warren Commission, "It was in the apartment house downstairs." A few pages later, John adds, "There is no doubt that the tall, nice-looking Marguerite Oswald and her family lived at 1505 8th Avenue in the summer and fall of 1947." Adding to the confusion is the fact that phony Marguerite lived at 1605 8th Ave. in Fort Worth around the time her "son" went to the Soviet Union. A strange coincidence of NEARLY identical addresses?
  14. That would be terrific. This fellow essentially will be looking for a needle in a haystack (references to a foster child or someone similar in Emil Gardos' care in NYC), and so we should work up some suggestions of what he will be looking for. If the Deep Politics member finds he can't do this, please let me know. I might be able to get to Madison sometime also.
  15. Huh? The March 7, 1936 Cleveland Plain Dealer indicated that the “immigration and naturalization service of the Department of Labor” ordered that Emil Gardos “must be deported to Roumania, whose territories include Gardos’ birthplace, formerly in Hungary,” or “to any country of his choice” if he “wishes to depart voluntarily….” [emphasis added] Emil Gardos was a communist AND from Hungary, so it certainly does seem to fit.
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