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This thread aims to analyse the locations of two ladies, Sarah Stanton and Pauline Sanders, on the top landing of the Depository doorway. One of the findings presented here was posted earlier in “Oswald leaving TSBS?” thread on November 10, 2017. However, I have added some more research since, and amended few details mentioned in the original post. Therefore, I start with the finding of a short lady in the east part of the doorway which was first mentioned in the main Prayer Man thread on November 10, 2017. You can read a more detailed account of this research on my blog: https://thejfktruthmatters.wordpress.com/ The short lady who stood on the top landing can be seen towards the end of Darnell film in frame #20130908-003922: The next figure presents a zoomed and enhanced view of the person standing in the east part of the doorway. This picture was first posted in "Oswald leaving TSBD?" thread last November. The presence of the lady is obvious from the enlarged picture. It was a short person, a Caucasian, and stood in the shadow and very close to the glass door. The body height of this person was estimated by aligning Darnell still #20130908-003922 with a 3D model of the doorway made in Sketchup program. The dimensions of the doorway in the model rely on measured dimensions of the doorway except for the depth of the doorway. The depth of the doorway was set to 3’8’’ in this analysis. The next figure shows the alignment of the doorway with the 3D models with all occupants included. It is an overlay of the original Darnell still and the 3D model at a blending of 75%. After aligning Darnell still and the model, it is possible to measure the body heights of all figures. This is what the next figure shows. It is a zoomed view of the doorway with four manikins representing Prayer Man, Buell Wesley Frazier, Bill Shelley and the unknown person. The newly disclosed person measured 4’11’’ and it could only be a woman, actually a woman of sub-average body height. The average body height of women born in the 20th of last century would be 63’’. The average body height of men born in the 20th of the last century (measured in 1963) was 68’’. Thus, the person seen in Darnell’s still was a woman, a quite a short woman.
John Butler posted a topic in JFK Assassination DebateThis is something that began to bug me after thinking about Prayer Man and Doorway Man. Some other things like witness statements have added to this irritation. So, is there anyone out there who is interested and has anything to add to the following things about Prayer Man and the Doorway Man leading to the idea of there being two Oswalds present during the assassination Doorway Man: It is my opinion that I don’t know who the Doorway Man is and you don’t either. That’s a bold statement and is in need of further explaining. Roy Truly said on 11-25-63 that Doorway Man looked like Oswald but, was really Billy Lovelady. Billy Lovelady identified himself as Doorway Man. That should have ended the argument. The Doorway Man figure looks like Billy Lovelady unless you look closely. It is my contention that a face mask has been added to the Doorway Man figure and we will never really know who it is. It could be Lee Harvey Oswald or an Oswald double that either doesn’t look like or looks to much like Lee Harvey Oswald. Hence, the need for a face mask. We do know that this Oswald figure was in the doorway of the TSBD during or directly after the assassination due to Altgens 6 which is not the most reliable piece of evidence. The Doorway Man figure does not have time to be anywhere else. Whoever he is he can’t be upstairs shooting the President. Prayer Man: It really doesn’t matter what Prayer Man was doing in the TSBD doorway. The events of Weigman and Darnell are after the assassination occurred. There is little relevance or evidence to the notion that Prayer Man was talking with or facing Buell Frazier. Why would it matter at this point? All we can say truthfully at this point is that he is in the doorway. One of the only relevances I can think of for Prayer Man is he is in the doorway when Officer Marion Baker and Roy Truly (according to Roy) enter the building. If he is in the doorway he is not likely to beat Baker and Truly to the 2nd floor break room or the 3rd or 4th floor area. The John Martin film shows what Prayer Man was doing during the assassination. He was on the Elm Street curb west of the TSBD doorway filming the presidential vehicle as it passed by. There is about 4 or 5 seconds in the film containing this fact. There is about, I would estimate, 70 frames. These frames show that Prayer Man had a large camera with a flash attachment. There are scenes that show a flash possibly greater than a sun reflection. Prayer Man mostly takes photos with a horizontal perspective but, switches to a vertical perspective when the Secret Service limousine passes by. Being on the street, he is not upstairs shooting the President. Doorway Man and Prayer Man: Neither one of these two can be on the sixth floor shooting President Kennedy. It is not physically possible. The important question here is are these two the same man. My answer for this in no. Why? Prayer Man is west of the TSBD doorway on Elm Street (John Martin) and Doorway man is in the doorway (Altgens 6) at the same time. It is impossible for these two men to be one man. Their clothes are the same, or appear to be, but, the way they wear their clothes is different in the Prayer Man and Doorway Man scenes. Prayer Man has his shirt buttoned and his sleeves rolled up above his elbows. Doorway Man does not have his sleeves rolled up and has his shirt partially unbuttoned. Two men wearing the same clothes differently is an adequate explanation for two Oswalds at the same time. Witnesses: Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig said he saw Oswald leave the building, run down the hill, and get into a light-colored station wagon. Other witnesses saw Oswald get on a bus and later take a taxi when he left the TSBD. This conflict raises the question were there two men described as Lee Harvey Oswald leaving the TSBD. Deputy Roger Craig later identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man he saw get into the station wagon. According to Officer Baker and Roy Truly they did not mention seeing Oswald or an Oswald look alike, Prayer Man, in the TSBD doorway when they entered the TSBD. There are two stories about what they saw in the TSBD. Baker and Truly’s story diverge in their earliest statements about who they saw in the TSBD. Officer Baker- In his 11-22-63 statement did not say he saw Oswald in the 2nd floor break room. Instead he saw a man that Roy Truly identified as an employee on the 3rd floor or 4th floor. Baker gave a description of the man. The question is why was this man never identified? Roy Truly knew who he was. Roy Truly- In his statement to the FBI on 11-22-63 does not mention a man on the 3rd or 4th floor. He mentions the 2nd floor break room story. Oswald is seen there by Baker and Truly. Does this mean there were two Oswalds there and Roy Truly along with the FBI move the 3rd or 4th floor Oswald to the 2nd floor break room. This doesn’t make sense as a speculation because having Oswald closer to the 6th floor should be the ideal. Most witnesses have their testimony taken by the local authorities that day. FBI witness statements are generally after the statements taken by the local authorities. Why is Roy Truly’s first statement taken by the FBI and not Dallas authorities? Could the 2nd floor break room story be cooked up by Truly and the FBI? Does anyone have anything that relates to the idea of two Oswalds at the TSBD? The Kennedy assassination literature is vast and impossible to know all of it.
An answer for Sandy Larsen: I went back and reviewed the Martin film’s sequence showing Prayer Man. It is about 4 seconds in length and that would be about 70 frames if the film moved at Zapruder speed. That segment shows Prayer Man on the Elm Street curb as the presidential limousine passes by. The limo is hard to see since what is show is just the top and the occupant’s heads. However, at the end of the sequence are several good shots of the limo as it passes the monument walkway unto El Street. In those frames you can see President Kennedy’s head (the imagery is really not that good). In this frame you can clearly the limo, Prayer Man and, two Motorcycle Policemen as the motorcade goes by.
DPUK Canterbury Seminar On April 23rd and 24th Dealey Plaza UK is holding their annual seminar in Canterbury. Prayer Man will be an integral part on the 23rd, besides the happenings inside and around the TSBD then it is of to the pub for a solid hour and a half after that I will address Oswald's interrogations and demolish the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter.. On Sunday I will do a Q&A with Malcolm Blunt and Greg Parker will be there remotely to talk about Lee Oswald's Cold War as well. I will take some pix and post them shortly after the event in this thread. For a full programme check the link below. http://www.prayer-man.com/dpuk-canterbury-seminar/