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John Simkin

David Talbot : Gordon Campbell

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http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/..._6_-_Transcript

Thought this part was interesting:

"REX: I'd like to switch forward because there's been some more recent news in the 43-year-old murder, and you've been involved in some of the news. Shane O'Sullivan, of BBC Newsnight, last fall put out a story that three high-level CIA officials were present at the Ambassador Hotel when RFK was killed. You and Washington Post reporter Jeff Morley then started tracking down the story. Can you tell us about that?

DAVID: Yeah, I think it's a fascinating episode in Kennedy research. As you say, a young filmmaker named Shane O'Sullivan went on the air - on the BBC - in November, with a startling report alleging that David Morales, George Joannides, and a fellow named Gordon Campbell - and the first two have long been connected in research circles to Dallas - were caught on camera at the Ambassador Hotel the night Bobby was killed in Los Angeles. He showed clips of news footage and still photographs that were taken that night and identified them as these three men, three CIA officials who were connected, again, to the Agency's secret war on Castro. Well, this was a kind of "holy xxxx" moment, because if that was the case, then you're connecting the same people who might have JFK to the people who might have killed RFK.

So I was in the finishing stages of my book, but I felt this had to be looked into before I sent my book off to the publisher, so Jeff Morley and I got an assignment from The New Yorker to look into it. With the New Yorker's resources, we were able to criss-cross he country, going from Miami to Northern California, Arizona and Washington and New England, and talked to a number of people to pin down whether or not these three CIA agents were indeed there. Well, unfortunately for Shane, and those who believed the story, we found that it simply wasn't true. Gordon Campbell - the person he identified as Gordon Campbell - turned out to be a U.S. Army official who had been attached to the CIA's JMWAVE station in Miami, but he had died in 1962, so of course it was impossible for him to show up in 1968 at the Ambassador.

We also found, finally - and I'm actually looking at these photographs right now - excellent photographs taken of David Morales around 1968. We've only had a very kind of rudimentary photo of him for the most part, that was taken out of a Cuban newspaper - and it's even in my book because I wasn't able to get these other photos in time - and so we weren't able to really get a good sense of what David Morales looked like until now. And if you compare these new photos that we now have in our possession - Jeff Morley and I, we've seen four photos of Morales from that period - it's clearly not the man in the news footage at the Ambassador Hotel. The physical characteristics are just completely different. People who knew him well say the same thing when they look at Shane O'Sullivan's report and these photos.

The same is true of George Joannides. We also found good photos of Joannides taken around the same time, and again, it's simply not the man caught on camera at the Ambassador.

On the other hand, David Morales has told - before he died - he told his attorney Robert Walton, and he told a good friend, who I did interview again, that he was in Dallas and Los Angeles at the times of the assassinations. He went further with his attorney and told him that he played a role in it. He did tell his friend Reuben Carbajal, who again, I interviewed, that the CIA killed JFK. So it wasn't complete lunacy for Shane O'Sullivan to assume that this might have been David Morales caught on camera. We have other evidence that Morales was connected to these assassinations, but these photographs or news footage that Shane used in his films simply don't corroborate it.

REX: It would certainly be the height of brazenness for three high-level CIA officials to be in the ballroom while planning that murder."

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Comment from Shane O'Sullivan:

"I have not seen the photographs David mentions. Jefferson Morley has alleged photographs of George Joannides taken in Saigon in 1973 and provided by a CIA source but will not send me a copy."

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I think what's needed here is some perspective. Brad Ayers identified a man at the Ambassador Hotel as someone he knew named Gordon Campbell. Whether or not that is army official Gordon Campbell or an alias is neither here nor there. Ayers said he knew him from operations out of Miami. That is the point.

Other folks (people who would know) positively identified Morales and Joannides. That should be taken seriously.

As for working off photographs, I also have seen many images of Morales (including from 1968) and from various other time frames and given the lack of detail in the Ambassador footage, that comparison alone means nothing.

That brings us back to the identifications from people who knew these men. We need to stay on track here.

James

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I think what's needed here is some perspective. Brad Ayers identified a man at the Ambassador Hotel as someone he knew named Gordon Campbell. Whether or not that is army official Gordon Campbell or an alias is neither here nor there. Ayers said he knew him from operations out of Miami. That is the point.

Other folks (people who would know) positively identified Morales and Joannides. That should be taken seriously.

As for working off photographs, I also have seen many images of Morales (including from 1968) and from various other time frames and given the lack of detail in the Ambassador footage, that comparison alone means nothing.

That brings us back to the identifications from people who knew these men. We need to stay on track here.

James

Hear, hear.

"I have not seen the photographs David mentions. Jefferson Morley has alleged photographs of George Joannides taken in Saigon in 1973 and provided by a CIA source but will not send me a copy."

:huh:

David Talbot makes strong allegations. It would seem appropriate & useful that the foundation of these allegations comes to light.

Would Mr. Simkin please ask Mr. Talbot and, via Mr. Talbot, Mr. Morely if these photos which cast doubt on O'Sullivan's discoveries cannot be put forward?

After all, a question arises. Why not prove the case?

"So it wasn't complete lunacy for Shane O'Sullivan to assume that this might have been David Morales caught on camera." - Talbot

This comment looks like a fillip on the nose. What's afoot?

Edited by Miles Scull

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I think what's needed here is some perspective. Brad Ayers identified a man at the Ambassador Hotel as someone he knew named Gordon Campbell. Whether or not that is army official Gordon Campbell or an alias is neither here nor there. Ayers said he knew him from operations out of Miami. That is the point.

............

That brings us back to the identifications from people who knew these men. We need to stay on track here.

James

It is a distinction that need reiteration, James. Those attempting to impugn Shane's work do so by besmirching Shane, as though it was he who identified the men in the Ambassador Hotel as being CIA. Or course, he did no such thing; he sought out identifications from those he could locate who actually knew the CIA men in question. Consequently, those who grouse about Shane's piece have a bone to pick with Ayers, et al, moreso than with Shane, who did what was required of any decent journalist: he talked to knowledgeable witnesses.

Along similar lines, there is something I've found puzzling since this all began. Long-time researchers are well acquainted with professional nay-sayer Mel Ayton. In attempting to undermine Shane's work, Ayton sought out anyone and everyone who might impeach the photo-IDs acquired by Shane in the process of compiling his piece. One such person was CIA's Grayston Lynch, and here is what Ayton reported at:

http://hnn.us/articles/32193.html

"However, it is the statement made by Grayston Lynch to this author that eliminates the possibility that the man observed in the LAPD film footage and photos supplied by O’Sullivan is Gordon Campbell. Lynch is a retired U.S. Army Special Forces captain and former CIA intelligence officer. His awards include three Purple Hearts, two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star with V for valor, and the CIA's most coveted award, the Intelligence Star, for heroism at the Bay of Pigs ‘above and beyond the call of duty’. When a force of U.S. trained Cuban exiles invaded Castro's Cuba in 1961, Lynch was the CIA's case officer, their point man, on the command ship, Blagar. He handled every communication between Washington and the beachhead and led the first combat team ashore. Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh described Lynch as the man who was , “….there at the Bay of Pigs and was in the perfect position to write the definitive ground-level account of what went right and what went wrong”. According to Lynch the man in the LAPD film footage is not Campbell and that he “…knew Gordon Campbell.”

Having given us a precis of Lynch's illustrious resume, the slim payoff is Lynch's denial that the man in the LAPD footage is Campbell because Lynch "knew Gordon Campbell."

But one wonders just how well Lynch knew Campbell. If it is true that Campell died in 1962, accepted by some as an article of faith simply because CIA claims it is true, why didn't Lynch simply say so to Ayton? It seems a far more damning condemnation of Shane's reportage to say that Campell died six years prior to the RFK murder and, hence, couldn't have been present at the event, than to simply say "t'wasn't him."

Did Campbell die in '62 and Lynch - who "knew" him - not hear the sad news of his passage? Did Campbell die in '62 and Lynch simply forgot this pertinent detail? Did Campbell not die in '62, but because he was so low profile, somebody decided to float that canard as a way to discount Shane's work, after it had already aired?

If memory serves, Shane requested comment on the IDs from Langley, but was stonewalled. Why? Why would CIA not simply point out to him that Campbell couldn't have been one of the men in question, as Campbell had died six years prior to the photos being taken? That might have scuttled Shane's entire enterprise. However, by refusing to divulge this when asked, and allowing Shane to report what he did, CIA could thereafter disclose Campbell had died in '62 [whether true or not], thereby impugning the credibility of all the identifications. "Well, if the witnesses were incorrect about Campbell, they were likely incorrect about the other two men as well."

It is also entirely possible that CIA allowed Shane to "publish and be damned" rather than disclose Campbell's alleged death for another self-serving reason. Had it alerted Shane to this fact, he may well have decided to confirm the time and circumstances of Campbell's death. Which could be problematic for all involved were it to emerge that Campbell didn't die in '62. [i've yet to see anyone expend any effort in confirming that death, but perhaps I've missed something along the way.]

To my way of thinking, it would be a counterintuitive but sensational revelation to locate three covert CIA officials at the scene of RFK's murder. However, in the final analysis, it is less important that all three men were there than if any one of them was there. So, Shane's witnesses - Ayers, et al - might be mistaken on one or two of the IDs provided, but if any one of those men were CIA, the Agency still has more explaining to do than it might find comfortable.

It seems that is the point of which we must not lose sight.

Instead, we now have a pissing contest between respected researchers, sniping that would have been averted had CIA simply disclosed the alleged fact of Campbell's death in 1962. Bureaucratic oversight on CIA's part? Or brilliant propaganda masterstroke? Given the net result, what do you suspect?

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Instead, we now have a pissing contest between respected researchers, sniping that would have been averted had CIA simply disclosed the alleged fact of Campbell's death in 1962. Bureaucratic oversight on CIA's part? Or brilliant propaganda masterstroke? Given the net result, what do you suspect?

If I may, I should like to inquire of Mr. Simkin if he might not mention or allude to any reasons he might have for not proposing to Mr. Talbot that a release of the undisclosed photos cited would be appreciated by the forum.

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Miles et al: Yes, the research community and the public at large have a right to see these photos of Morales and Joannides that Jeff Morley and I obtained in the course of our research for the New Yorker magazine. We are discussing posting them, along with an article about our research, on Rex Bradford's site (Mary Ferrell Foundation), so hopefully they will be available soon. I have no interest in getting into a spat with Shane -- I think he's a dedicated and honorable investigator. But the conclusions he reached in his BBC report, based on Jeff's and my reporting, are wrong. I do believe, as I've said, there is a good chance that Morales was at the Ambassador Hotel that night. But the new photos of Morales that I obtained from one of his daughters clearly prove to my satisfaction that the video images that Shane identified as Morales were simply not. His daughters, I believe, were acting in good faith when they reluctantly supplied me with these photos. According to his oldest daughter, Morales was a brutal man and she clearly has no desire to cover for him -- she even told her sons, when they were growing up, that their grandfather might be connected to the Kennedy assassination. But everyone can soon make their own conclusions, after the photos are published.

By the way, while Jeff and I did get a couple intriguing "false positives" on the "Joannides" photo at the Ambassador, no credible source has identiifed the "Morales" images as DM -- except Wayne Smith -- as far as I know. Everyone else we talked with who actually knew Morales denied it was him.

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Miles et al: Yes,... We are discussing posting them, along with an article about our research, on Rex Bradford's site (Mary Ferrell Foundation), so hopefully they will be available soon...

Well, this is good news. The controversy has arisen because the photos, frame captures, etc, etc., have not been put into evidence, so to speak. I would hope that the photos cited would be presented in high resolution. There are a number of skilled photograph & image experts here on the forum. Their enhancement techniques, etc., can help the triers of fact, so to speak.

Just put Brothers on the shelf. Great read, easy on the eye.

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Gordon Campbell

Captain, United States Navy

From a contemporary press report:

Captain Gordon Campbell, United States Navy (Ret.) died December 5, 2000. His ashes will be inurned at Arlington National Cemetery.

Born on October 1, 1905 in Washington, D.C. he grew up in Honolulu, Hawaii, Fort Stevens, Georgia., and other Army Posts.

After prepping at Merion Institute in Alabama, he entered the U.S. Naval Academy, graduating in 1926. He served on surface ships and submarines, his last command being the heavy cruiser USS Columbus.

After retirement from the Navy in 1956 he was employed at Wright Machinery Co. until 1963.

He is survived by his wife Addo S. Campbell, daughter, Jayne C. Byal of Fort Lauderdale, Fla., four grandchildren, and three great grandchildren.

Posted: 14 October 2001 Updated: 20 November 2005

GORDON CAMPBELL – (Bradley Ayers, The Zenith Secret)

p.38:

On Monday I went to the station early, hoping to get a good start on my after-action report. I was beginning to organize my thoughts about the mission….Ted Shackley wanted as few people as possible to know about my trip to Cuba. I asked his secretary Maggy, who else might see my after-action report. I was most concerned about David Morales' reaction to my critical observations…. 'Dave is away in Mexico. Possibly Gordon will see it.'"

"I knew she was referring to Gordon Campbell, the deputy chief of station, who I had not met yet."

p. 45:

"Before leaving for the Keys, I stopped by the station to pick up a few supplies. There was a note on my desk. I was to see Gordon Campbell, the deputy chief of station before leaving. I'd never met him. What the hell? I thought. Campbell's office was in the building next to Ted Shackley's. But when I got there, Maggy told me to go to the second floor of the old barracks, a floor above my own office in the training branch. I'd never been in that area of the building."

"I walked back to my building and went upstairs. Campbell's office was well-decorated, with all sorts of Zenith Technical Enterprises corporate plaques, alleged product displays, photos and mementoes. His secretary buzzed him on my arrival and I was escorted into his plush office."

"Campbell came around his desk, introduced himself, and shook my hand. I judged his age to be around 40 and he appeared in robust physical condition. Dressed as if he had just come off the golf course, tanned, clean shaven, with a trim build, balding blond hair, and penetrating blue eyes, he greeted me cordially. I liked him immediately."

" 'I've been wanting to meet you and welcome you to the station. I'm sorry it's taken so long. I want to tell you we appreciate what you're working on. I also read your after action report and I think you know what needs to be done.'"

"I told him I'd do my best and we exchanged a few thoughts about the exile training program. As I left his office, he told me to be careful and that he would be seeing me again."

p. 56:

"I attended both briefings. All the branch chiefs were there aw well as Mr. Fitzgerald and Mr. Harvey from Washington accompanied by Ted Shackley and Campbell. David Morales introduced Mr. David Phillips who was identified as a coordinator for the new initiatives with the exile organizations."

p. 80 :

"On the way down US 1, I stopped at the Green Turtle Inn in Islamorada for a bowl of soup. It was early afternoon and most of the lunch crowd had left. But near the back of the restaurant, seated at a large circular table, were Dave Morales, Mr. Harvey, Gordon Campbell, Mr. Phillips, and another man, possibly Rosselli, whose back was turned on me. They apparently had stopped for lunch and drinks. I don't know if they recognized me or not. As was the practice in such situations, within the agency, there was no acknowledgement, either way. Discretely, I got my soup to go and quickly left. It was the first time I had ever seen the station hierarchy in the Keys and out of their air-conditioned offices. It was encouraging., maybe something big was in the offing. I thought."

p. 86:

"…We were going to a meeting place in the Everglades….We pulled into a truck stop at the junction of Tamiami Trail and Hightway 27, and another man – a Cuban who I had never seen before – checked the license of the car and climbed in. No one spoke as we drove down the long, slightly traveled highway and eventually turned onto a dirt road bordered by canal. After about a mile, the driver pulled over. An airboat was waiting in the canal, and in moments we were noisily skimming across the saw grass as dusk settled over the glades…..After nearly 30 minutes of travel across open swampland and deep canals, we turned under some overhanging trees and pulled up to a small dock behind another airboat. A sign on the rotting timbers read 'Waloos Glades Hunting Camp – No Tresspassing.' It was nearly dark, but I could see two small Quonsets with lights burning in the windows. Some men were standing around a campfire in the middle of the clearing, and in its flickering light I could see two helicopter parked in the shadows. One was a military Bell H-13 with the identification numbers taped over, and the other was a civilian chopper with the name West Palm Beach air service on the tail rotor boom."

"We walked to the fire and a young man handed us cups of coffee. I had never seen the men before. Soon the door to one of the Quonsets swung open and four men emerged. As they moved into the circle of firelight I recognized Gordon Campbell. I had seen him only a few times since my brief meeting with him, but had been impressed with his polished, slightly flamboyant executive manner. I caught my breath at the appearance of the second man. It was the attorney general, Robert Kennedy."

"The four men talked in low voices for a few minutes, and then the attorney general came over and shook hands with each of us, wishing us good luck and God's speed on our mission."

"Hell, I didn't even know what my mission was. His white teeth flashed and sparkled, and I felt a strange sense of strength and resolve when he grasped my hand. Then he and one of the Cubans went to the civilian helicopter, an din minutes it took off. Now I understood the need for extra secrecy. If the president felt strongly enough to send his brother, something very big was being planned."

"When the helicopter was gone, the deputy chief of station came over….he said, 'The reason we've got you here and the reason for all the secrecy is that we just got the green light from upstairs to go ahead on some missions we've been planning for some time.'"

"We entered the Quonset….Campbell closed the door behind us and turned to face me. 'We're very pleased with the way you've handled the training setup for the station so far, and we've made that known to your people at the Pentagon. We know it hasn't been easy for you and your family….You'll be happy to know that the Special Group has finally given us permission to use two-man submarines to strike Castro's ships in the harbors. Some of your UDT people will be involved in that. And next week Rip's boys are going to Elgin for parachute training, so an airborne commando raid may not be far off. But right now we've got the go-ahead to hit one of the major oil refineries from on the island. All we've got to do is get a commando force in shape to do the job."

" 'We want you to take a commando force of 12 men and give them six weeks of the toughest, most realistic training you can. We want you to teach them survival and get them physically toughened up. Then we want you to run some exercises for them, and finally, wet up a rehearsal for the actual raid, and do it over and over until they have it down blindfolded. During this six weeks we want you to eat, sleep, and live this mission with the Cubans, 24 hours a day. We want them ready to go by mid-December."

"….We've got a house on the south end of Elliot Key that's never been used…you can run the training from there…..You'll have to keep up with your regular duties in addition to working with this commando group. Again, no one is to know that. David is sometimes a little bit difficult, so you'll deal directly with me on anything you need. Use the telephone, and we'll meet away from the station. After you get set, I'll give you a complete scenario for the mission and as much data as we have on the target itself."

"…. 'My outside man, Karl, will help you with logistics. Take the deliveries and carry the items to the island yourself. Order as little as you have to from logistics, and buy all your own food….Here's the safehouse key and $1,000 to get things moving….'"

"Campbell introduced me to Tony Sforza, the commando team contact man, and Karl…."

p. 92:

"I felt an urgency to discuss the leadership aspect of the mission early on with Mr. Campbell....So I decided to talk to Karl about the problem…Campbell had placed no restrictions on what I might discuss with his right-hand man."

"My trip across the bay was faster than usual, and I arrived at the restaurant near the Coral Castle ahead of our scheduled meeting. I saw Karl, Dave Morales, Rosselli, and Mr. Phillips sitting at a table near the back of the room. When I saw all but Karl leave, three to the same car, I went back to meet him. Over a beer, I told him of my observations with Campbell. Karl was pretty savvy and agreed. On the way back to Black Point I pondered Karl's apparent familiarity with the principal staff at JM/WAVE as I had observed it. I was impressed. Karl was obviously something more than the typical logistics gofer."

p. 93 :

"I stole a few hours extra sleep the next morning, then went out to Coconut Grove, where I was to meet Gordon Campbell. He and his wife lived on a yacht moored at the Dinner Key marina. I walked down a long concrete pier, past sleek, expensive cruisers, and finally found Gordon's boat. Both he and his wife – an attractive bikini-clad silver-haired women – were well into their Sunday afternoon martinis."

"As he mixed me a drink, he asked, 'What do you think of the men? How do they look – morale, interest - you know, guts for the job?'"

"'They look very good so far,' I replied, 'but there's one big problem, the commandos have no real leader. The team is split into two distinct, separate groups of five and six men each…and they seem to want to stay that way. As long as I give orders, there's no problem, but when they're on their own, the so-called leader makes suggestions and the other two follow only if they feel like it. It's too loose to be effective under pressure.'"

" 'Goddamnit, if a leader is a problem, then you find one! The case officer for these boys will be down from Washington in a few weeks. He's been with the Cuban desk studying the situation and he's well-read. Porter is young but he knows his stuff. I've assured him you'd have the team ready to go.'"

"Had I heard right? Somebody who worked behind a desk at Langley was suddenly going to appear on the scene and take over where I left off? Just like that? I'd train them and someone else would step in and simply 'assume' control? I started to say something, but caught myself. This was something totally beyond my control, and no good would come from an argument with Campbell at this point. I took a big swallow of my drink. 'I'll continue to do my best on the leadership situation. Gordon, I can assure you that having a leader would make my own work easier. More importantly, these are good men, and they deserve a good leader."

"The anger passed from his face and he mixed us both another drink. 'All right, let's go below. I have the charts and photos and we'll go over the mission from beginning to end."

"For the better part of the next two hours we pored over refinery blueprints and incredibly detailed U-2 photos and recently smuggled-out snapshots of the target. The time schedule was set in the familiar D-day, H-hour military terminology, and Campbell would not tell me when the raid would be conducted. We had to be ready to go anytime after the first of December. He wanted at least two rehearsals competed by then, and there was little time left."

"Our discussion terminated when Mrs. Campbell came down to the gallery carrying drinks for all of us. She chided us for spending the 'glorious Sunday afternoon' talking business, and threw her heavily oiled, deeply tanned body into her husband's lap. Her obvious attention seeking embarrassed me, so I drank quickly, thanked Gordon, and said I'd contact him."

"It wasn't until I'd left the yacht that I realized Campbell hadn't given me the exact location of the refinery; he's said only that it was on the south central coast of Cuba. It probably had been intentional, I concluded, but I had enough data to get well into advanced training and preliminary rehearsals anyway."

"The mission was a big one, all right, and tough. In a very complex, precisely timed raid, the commandos would destroy the fuel storage tanks, dock, and ship-to-shore product-transfer pipelines of the refinery. As I drove home, I reviewed the details Gordon had given me. Two fishing trawlers would be used as mother ships for three V-20s. At a shallow water point about a mile from the target, one boat would land and the team would go ashore, under cover of darkness. The other two boats would wait offshore, among the mangroves, for completion of the first phase of the mission."

"The landed commando team would move down the shore to the pier that supported the pipeline. They would kill the guards on the pier, and then eliminate the watchman in the small tin shack at the end of the pier. This accomplished, they would signal the other two V-20s to come to the end of the pier, where the boats would be tied until the mission was completed."

"The landed commando team would move down the shore to the pier and around the refinery yard fence to a position behind a low hill that was about eleven hundred yards from the brightly illuminated crackling towers and processing facilities. Two 81mm mortars would be set up; from an observation position on high ground; their fire would be guided into the refinery proper. White phosphorous ordinance would be used, in the hope that the cracking towers would catch fire immediately and the surrounding fuel storage tanks would explode. Approximately twenty mortar round would be fired into the refinery."

"Meanwhile, time-activated demolition charges would be fastened to the pipeline pier, and 'clams' (round TNT charges with magnetic devices to hold them to metal objects) would be attached to the transfer pipeline. By the time the entire commando force withdrew, the refinery would be engulfed in flames."

"As the two V-20s pulled away, the timer would activate, and the pier and the pipeline would explode behind them. The commandos would return to the trawlers waiting several miles offshore. Another time-activated explosive would destroy the beached V-20."

p. 99:

"Communications between Elliott Key and the mainland had been a problem from the beginning….The only way I could maintain secure contact with Gordon Campbell, Karl, and Tony was to go ashore to the pay phone at Black Point…..Sometimes I'd go for days without contact…On other occasions I'd get word that Campbell and Karl were out of the area and was given no idea when they might return my call…."

p. 102:

"….I immediately recognized the plane as the single-engine Cessna based at the CIA headquarters in Miami. As it flew overhead, a white object was released directly over the old house. It was a roll of toilet tissue, streaming as it fell. It landed only a few feet away….The center tube of the tissue role had been closed with masking tape, and the word 'OPEN' had been scrawled on the side with black marking pencil. Hastily, I opened up the tube and pulled out the paper inside. It was Campbell's printing:

NOVEMBER 22 1963

PRESIDENT KENNEDY HAS BEEN SHOT BY AN ASSASSIN. SUSPEND ALL ACTIIVTY. KEEP MEN ON ISLAND. COME ASHORE WITHOUT DELAY.

GORDON

p. 104 :

"More than a month after the assassination that I spoke with Mr. Campbell about the Elliot Key commandos. He directed me to hold off any additional rehearsals but to go on training at a reduced pace."

p. 105:

"Gordon Campbell and Karl had all but disappeared during this period and the Elliot Key operation, for which I had been responsible, was placed under control of the training branch. Cal had departed for anew assignment in Washington at the CIA 'farm' in Virginia. Rudy temporarily assumed duties as chief of training….Eventually, and old CIA training officer, Ernie Sparks, arrived and took over as chief of branch….Ernie dressed in Western style, with cowboy boots, jeans and open collared riding shirt. Often he would have a big revolver holstered at his side. He was about 50, with gray hair, a droopy mustache, ruddy complexion, and piercing blue eyes. He was portly but muscular. He could have been a Wild West movie character. He had been nicknamed 'Sitting Bull' while serving as a training officer in Guatemala, preparing Cuban exile Brigade 2506 for the Bay of Pigs invasion. As the time went by I learned he had a penchant for booze, women and sports cars….."

p. 181 :

"…The cover office, staffed with full-time secretaries and decorated to appear as a typical business headquarters. Shackley would never be there, but either Clines or Campbell would when it was useful to present Zenith Technical Enterprise's face to the world. The Maritime Branch was located in the same building, and for that reason, it was most convenient for Campbell, who was running that branch, to man the cover office….and I found it interesting in Fonzi's book there was no mention of Campbell. Campbell was identified in Deadly Secrets, however. This would become a matter of significance in my future work."

Edited by William Kelly

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On the Death Certificate for Gordon Campbell - Date of Birth - July 5, 1905, it gives his father as Stewart F. and his mother as Florance Sutheland, his occupation as Maritime advisor,and what does that say New Jersey?

In support of SOS's contention there could possibly be two different Gordon Campbells or another CIA officer who used that name.

In fact, I've known about another nautical Gordon Campbell for some time now.

Other than the fact they were both born in 1905, and were yachtsmen, I don't know of any connection between the two Gordon Campbells.

How come we don't have an obituary for the Gordon Campbell who died in 1962.

And what do we make of the Gordon Campbell, deputy chief of station JM/WAVE, whose "outside man" was Karl, fresh from Germany who died mysteriously while Bradley E. Ayers looked on.

And now we have a JM/WAVE witness to the heart attack death of Gordon Campbell in 1962.

Were these witnesses supposed to witness these deaths?

It wouldn't be the first time we've had more than one person with the same name in this case:

Richard Sprague prosecutor

Richard Sprague computer mag editor

Betty McDonald stipper

Betty McDonald Magnolia Oil

Donald P. Norton - gay piano player

Donald O. Norton - fisherman

Edward L. Keenan - Linguist

Edward L. Keenan - Harvard Russian Dean

Bill Kelly - FBI Agent

Bill Kelly - researcher

BK

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It wouldn't be the first time we've had more than one person with the same name in this case:

Richard Sprague prosecutor

Richard Sprague computer mag editor

Betty McDonald stipper

Betty McDonald Magnolia Oil

Donald P. Norton - gay piano player

Donald O. Norton - fisherman

Edward L. Keenan - Linguist

Edward L. Keenan - Harvard Russian Dean

Bill Kelly - FBI Agent

Bill Kelly - researcher

BK

Good point. What about these two:

William F. Buckley: born 24th November, 1925 (joined CIA in 1951)

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbuckleyW.htm

William F. Buckley: born 30th May, 1928 (joined the CIA in 1963)

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbuckleyWF.htm

The first Buckley officially left the CIA in 1952 to play an important role in Operation Mockingbird.

The second Buckley worked for Reagan and Bush during the Iran-Contra operation.

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I welcome this new evidence and am sure researchers will make up their own minds about the photographs but it's a shame David and Jeff did not share everything they found. I interviewed the senior CIA official who supplied the Joannides photos and he still believes that the man at the Ambassador is 'not incompatible with Joannides'. For the record, Bradley Ayers has seen the new Morales photos and also stands by his identification of Morales at the Ambassador. I will respond to this new evidence fully in my film.

But I have to say I find the tone of this article absurdly pompous, pitching Morley and Talbot against the mighty BBC. This was one independent filmmaker on limited resources following the evidence and intriguing the BBC enough to give me twelve minutes of airtime to give an honest assessment of available evidence and ask for clarification from the CIA. It has stimulated great debate and helped generate a lot of new information on these guys.

David and Jeff loftily complain of editorial standards and 'titillating charges' when the fact is my story left them just as intrigued and titillated as the BBC and they put their reputations on the line to get the New Yorker to fund further investigation. I remember David telling me they felt like Woodward and Bernstein, ready to hit the road to crack open the Kennedy assassinations. They sought my cooperation and I supported them by sharing everything I had. Not a word about this in their article, of course.

Before my Newsnight story aired, I asked Morley to show the Ambassador photograph to Joannides' daughter. Her response was a frosty 'no comment', which Morley said he found 'telling'. He then slagged off my story publicly the day after broadcast - presumably to appease the Joannides family - before later admitting he spoke too soon and answering the call of the New Yorker.

I find a number of startling omissions in this article. Huge weight is given to the death of a 'Gordon Campbell' who is clearly not the man Bradley Ayers knew at JM/WAVE. Morley omits several new positive IDs of Joannides, then cites a negative ID by Timothy Kalaris without telling us that Timothy's father George was the successor to Angleton as the Head of Counterintelligence. It does make you wonder.

Many inaccuracies, too. David Rabern was not a CIA operations officer and never identified Morales by name. All in all, there's interesting new information here, but it's weirdly skewed. David and Jeff are great reporters but this is not the whole story, or even the whole of their story. My film will be released in the US and UK before the end of the year and will address these issues in more detail.

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I welcome this new evidence and am sure researchers will make up their own minds about the photographs but it's a shame David and Jeff did not share everything they found......Huge weight is given to the death of a 'Gordon Campbell' who is clearly not the man Bradley Ayers knew at JM/WAVE. Morley omits several new positive IDs of Joannides, then cites a negative ID by Timothy Kalaris without telling us that Timothy's father George was the successor to Angleton as the Head of Counterintelligence. It does make you wonder.....

...... All in all, there's interesting new information here, but it's weirdly skewed. David and Jeff are great reporters but this is not the whole story, or even the whole of their story. My film will be released in the US and UK before the end of the year and will address these issues in more detail.

Shane,

Did you see the background of the OTHER Gordon Campbell, former Navy, Wright Machine Company 1956-1963?

Also, if The JM/WAVE Gordon Campbell died in Sept. 1962, that would have been just before the Cuban Missile Crisis, when Harvey was still there.

Why don't we have an obituary for this guy, if dead?

Also, the Gordon Campbell Bradley Ayers knew had a martini wife and yacht.

There's got to be a trace on them.

I think Gordon Campbell is possibly more interesting than Joannides or Morrales.

If the CIA sets up a fake front company - Zenith Technological Services, and hands out cover names, why not two men with the same identity, or fake a death?

Good luck in your quest, and keep us posted,

Bill Kelly

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Condensed from one of my posts on the "David Morales" thread:

____________________________________________

I'd like to explore the possibility of a Morales "double" -- in the broadest, doppelganger sense of the term. If I'm not mistaken, there was another operative of the period known as "The Indian," or "El Indio."

[After a JFK Lancer program] I was approached in Dealey Plaza by one of the conference attendees, who told me that there were two "big Indians" in the mix.

We all might benefit from a discussion of the "other" one.

_____________________________________________

Was there such a character? Was he named Sanchez, or Sanchez Morales? And/or was he known as "The Indian" or "El Indio"?

I recall having read about such a person many years ago.

Charles

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