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John Simkin

Mary Jo Kopechne

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Is it possible that something was messed with on the car before they left in it? Something that'd take a while to show up, like.. Someone saw them leaving, poked a hole in a tire, or messed with the brakes somehow, hoping to kill Ted? However, for whatever reason, he wasn't in the car?

It's too much of a coincidence. JPK Jr, dead. JFK Sr, dead. RFK Sr, dead. Ted's been in a car accident and a plane crash, and he's still alive today. I heard one comedian say, "Ted Kennedy is living proof that the drunk always walks away from the accident."

Maybe it was done to shatter Ted's credibility, and it has. He'll never be President now, this case is too burned into the minds of everyone that knows his name.

Edited by Nic Martin

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It's too much of a coincidence. JPK Jr, dead. JFK Sr, dead. RFK Sr, dead. Ted's been in a car accident and a plane crash, and he's still alive today.

Yes Nic, it's all too much of a coincidence. But these threads on Ted, Mary Jo, and the connections to Watergate are putting forward a great case, IMO. As to what really did happen.

Maybe it was done to shatter Ted's credibility, and it has. He'll never be President now, this case is too burned into the minds of everyone that knows his name.

Of course it was to shatter his credibility, and to keep him silent and to make sure the name "Kennedy" was not ever in the WH again.

I personally think they could have gotten away with murdering him outright: Look at MLK and Bobby so close in 68, still totally covered-up. I remember being so excited watching the James Earl Ray hearings in 94 on Court tv: it was so clear the Judge Joe Brown knew some FACTS about this case. So of course, he was removed from this case. Even with the King family solidly behind pursuing the truth, it did not occur. The powers that be are still very much in control and I believe if we don't SOMEHOW FORCE the truth in our lifetime it will be lost forever.

Tho Tim Gratz and I agree on very little we both agree that these cases need a serious investigation to get at the truth. Problem is how to accomplish such.

I have suggested that people write to Dallas District Attorney Bill Hill, like I did in 2003, he's the person with jurisdiction. That he never even wrote back tells me he's NO Jim Garrison. But perhaps if he were to receive a lot of mail....

Or if the current Independent prosecutor could investigate the ties from the past through today this could be another means, albeit a very far flung fantasy perhaps.

I can think of no other avenues. We need a Grand Jury, period. Of course any Grand Jury on any given month in Dallas could decide to investigate this open homicide. However, the chances of getting 12 people at the same time, in the same room, sitting as Grand Jurors, who care about this travesty of justice are probably slim to none.

Oh but for an independent free press!!! Control the press and you can control the minds of the citizens. (But not all of us, of course).

Dawn

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Guest John Gillespie

It is the contention of a Boston Herald reporter that Richard Nixon believed that the scandal was staged.

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Guest John Woods
I am convinced there is a close link between Chappaquiddick and the assassination of JFK. I suspect that they were both aspects of a conspiracy to keep the Kennedys from power.

Does anyone know if any figures linked to the assassination of JFK were in the area when Mary Jo Kopechne was killed?

A number of respected researchers met with a member of Ted Kennedy's team to discuss who was involved in the assassination of his brother John.

john w

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A number of respected researchers met with a member of Ted Kennedy's team to discuss who was involved in the assassination of his brother John.

Anymore information on this? I believe that Ted Kennedy is unwilling to talk about anything linked to the JFK assassination. Given the role that the Kennedy family played in the cover-up, this is understandable.

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Guest John Gillespie

[i]I am convinced there is a close link between Chappaquiddick and the assassination of JFK. I suspect that they were both aspects of a conspiracy to keep the Kennedys from power. [/i]

I'm convinced that you're convinced; well, at least that's what you WANT to believe. There is none. As Guillermi de ockam probably said, "hey, sometimes there's, like, a razor...and stuff." Or maybe that was Nic or Pamela. There is nothing relative to the incident at Chappaquiddick - at least nothing of any true significance - that is unknown to those who J. Raymond Carroll calls 'serious researchers.' In no time at all there were P.I.'s - whether the meter was running or not - Gov't Agents and even International folk crawling all over the place. Very little of any consequence was learned, even when Hunt went there later. Of course, he probably had a somewhat different agenda.

Does anyone know if any figures linked to the assassination of JFK were in the area when Mary Jo Kopechne was killed?/b]

You gotta admit that one's a bit loaded and I'm being kind in my characterization; but here is something heretofore and relatively unknown:

There was a neighbor there, retired at the time, of Intelligence connections or background who was interviewed shortly after the accident by a NY Post reporter (It was being floated that Ted was unfamiliar with the roads). A pointed, purposeful and insidious response revealed that background to the reporter. The intended effect, of course, was intimidation.

"A number of respected researchers met with a member of Ted Kennedy's team to discuss who was involved in the assassination of his brother John."

Ok. What number? What are the names of the 'respected researchers"? (Shouldn't we check with J. R.C. to make sure that they were 'serious researchers' as well?) When? Who was the member of Ted Kennedy's team?

This appears to be Hemmingesque - and reminiscient of a famous scene in the Woody Allen film "Annie Hall" when he and Annie are in line for a movie and a pompous ass ahead of them is expounding on Marshall Mcluhan, all the while misquoting and misinterpreting, when Allen goes back and FINDS Marshall Mcluhan in line and pulls him up towards the blowhard. McLuhan then dresses the guy down and goes "I never said that!"

So, no speculation, please. I realize that's asking the impossible. B.S. will be recognized instantly and handled appropriately. To put it in mallspeak: You just don't know what you don't know.

There's a new Marshall in Town.

JG

Edited by John Gillespie

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Guest John Woods

[i]I am convinced there is a close link between Chappaquiddick and the assassination of JFK. I suspect that they were both aspects of a conspiracy to keep the Kennedys from power. [/i]

I'm convinced that you're convinced; well, at least that's what you WANT to believe. There is none. As Guillermi de ockam probably said, "hey, sometimes there's, like, a razor...and stuff." Or maybe that was Nic or Pamela. There is nothing relative to the incident at Chappaquiddick - at least nothing of any true significance - that is unknown to those who J. Raymond Carroll calls 'serious researchers.' In no time at all there were P.I.'s - whether the meter was running or not - Gov't Agents and even International folk crawling all over the place. Very little of any consequence was learned, even when Hunt went there later. Of course, he probably had a somewhat different agenda.

Does anyone know if any figures linked to the assassination of JFK were in the area when Mary Jo Kopechne was killed?/b]

You gotta admit that one's a bit loaded and I'm being kind in my characterization; but here is something heretofore and relatively unknown:

There was a neighbor there, retired at the time, of Intelligence connections or background who was interviewed shortly after the accident by a NY Post reporter (It was being floated that Ted was unfamiliar with the roads). A pointed, purposeful and insidious response revealed that background to the reporter. The intended effect, of course, was intimidation.

"A number of respected researchers met with a member of Ted Kennedy's team to discuss who was involved in the assassination of his brother John."

Ok. What number? What are the names of the 'respected researchers"? (Shouldn't we check with J. R.C. to make sure that they were 'serious researchers' as well?) When? Who was the member of Ted Kennedy's team?

This appears to be Hemmingesque - and reminiscient of a famous scene in the Woody Allen film "Annie Hall" when he and Annie are in line for a movie and a pompous ass ahead of them is expounding on Marshall Mcluhan, all the while misquoting and misinterpreting, when Allen goes back and FINDS Marshall Mcluhan in line and pulls him up towards the blowhard. McLuhan then dresses the guy down and goes "I never said that!"

So, no speculation, please. I realize that's asking the impossible. B.S. will be recognized instantly and handled appropriately. To put it in mallspeak: You just don't know what you don't know.

There's a new Marshall in Town.

JG

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Guest John Woods

[i]I am convinced there is a close link between Chappaquiddick and the assassination of JFK. I suspect that they were both aspects of a conspiracy to keep the Kennedys from power. [/i]

I'm convinced that you're convinced; well, at least that's what you WANT to believe. There is none. As Guillermi de ockam probably said, "hey, sometimes there's, like, a razor...and stuff." Or maybe that was Nic or Pamela. There is nothing relative to the incident at Chappaquiddick - at least nothing of any true significance - that is unknown to those who J. Raymond Carroll calls 'serious researchers.' In no time at all there were P.I.'s - whether the meter was running or not - Gov't Agents and even International folk crawling all over the place. Very little of any consequence was learned, even when Hunt went there later. Of course, he probably had a somewhat different agenda.

Does anyone know if any figures linked to the assassination of JFK were in the area when Mary Jo Kopechne was killed?/b]

You gotta admit that one's a bit loaded and I'm being kind in my characterization; but here is something heretofore and relatively unknown:

There was a neighbor there, retired at the time, of Intelligence connections or background who was interviewed shortly after the accident by a NY Post reporter (It was being floated that Ted was unfamiliar with the roads). A pointed, purposeful and insidious response revealed that background to the reporter. The intended effect, of course, was intimidation.

"A number of respected researchers met with a member of Ted Kennedy's team to discuss who was involved in the assassination of his brother John."

Ok. What number? What are the names of the 'respected researchers"? (Shouldn't we check with J. R.C. to make sure that they were 'serious researchers' as well?) When? Who was the member of Ted Kennedy's team?

This appears to be Hemmingesque - and reminiscient of a famous scene in the Woody Allen film "Annie Hall" when he and Annie are in line for a movie and a pompous ass ahead of them is expounding on Marshall Mcluhan, all the while misquoting and misinterpreting, when Allen goes back and FINDS Marshall Mcluhan in line and pulls him up towards the blowhard. McLuhan then dresses the guy down and goes "I never said that!"

So, no speculation, please. I realize that's asking the impossible. B.S. will be recognized instantly and handled appropriately. To put it in mallspeak: You just don't know what you don't know.

There's a new Marshall in Town.

JG

John S.

I will respond to your questions by email. Would you please forward to me

by email Ayer's acknowledgement in his revise book? A "friend" :rolleyes:

I'm just outright blushing.

Thanks!!

John W.

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Here is William C. Sullivan's account of Chappaquiddick(The Bureau: My Thirty Years in Hoover's FBI, 1979):

Hoover was as fond of Ted Kennedy as he had been of his brothers. It was the FBI which circulated the story that Teddy Kennedy was a poor student and had cheated on an exam. By rights the FBI should have had nothing to do with the Chappaquiddick affair, but the Boston office was put on the case right away. Although Hoover was delighted to cooperate, the order did not originate with him. It came from the White House.

Everything that came in on Kennedy and on Mary Jo Kopechne, the unfortunate young woman who drowned in his car, was funnelled to the White House. Hoover even assigned our local agent to dig into the affair. The White House asked Hoover to make the assignment and Hoover jumped through the hoop to do it.

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When I was researching the Mary Pinchot Meyer case I once again came across the name Leo Damore. Apparently, why researching his book, Senatorial Privilege: The Chappaquiddick Cover-Up, he came across information that persuaded him to research the Meyer case. However, Damore committed suicide in 1995 and the book was never published.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAdamore.htm

Although I had read extracts of Senatorial Privilege on the web I thought it would be a good idea to get a copy of the book. I could then find out if there was any links with what he found out about Chappaquiddick and the assassination of JFK. If he did, there is no evidence of this in the book. I know that he came under intense pressure from the Kennedy family not to publish the book. (Random House cancelled the contract for the book although it had paid Damore a generous advance). In fact, the book was not published until 14 years after he started work on the project. I suspect he may have been forced to remove some parts of the book before it was published. Although a detailed account of the cover-up, it does not tell us anything we did not know. Damore’s main scoop is to get Kennedy’s cousin, Joe Gargan, to tell his story. Gargan and Paul Markham were the two friends who were told about the accident and tried to rescue Mary Jo Kopechne. Gargan’s story is not very different from the one he told during the inquest. The main difference is that Gargan argues that the reason for the delay in reporting the incident was that Edward Kennedy was trying to persuade someone else to take the blame for driving the car. Gargan and Markham refused. Kennedy then wanted to claim that Mary Jo was driving. This idea was also rejected. At this point, Kennedy tells the two men that he planned to go back to Edgartown to report the accident. He then dived into the water to swim back to his hotel (this was a very risky thing to do and Kennedy claims he nearly drowned during the swim. As there was a public phone close by, it seems a very strange thing to have done.

Damore’s main thesis is that Kennedy was drunk and therefore not willing to report the accident until the next morning. However, he must have been aware, that not reporting the accident was a far more serious offence. Damore does not explain this nor several other items of evidence that undermines Gargan’s story. I think Damore is wrong to believe Gargan’s story. I suspect this was more about Gargan covering-up his own behaviour.

I will post later what I think might have happened at Chappaquiddick.

It's been a long time since I read Senatorial Privilege by Leo Damore, but I recall Damore making the rounds of NY radio talk shows. Then suddenly he's dead. I find this suspicious, as someone said he killed himself. I don't believe this for a minute. But what I couldn't get over was Joe Gargan, Ted's cousin, giving so much incriminating info about Ted to Damore for his book. Gargan really turned against Ted 20 odd years later. I've never found anything about that aspect. Can you imagine the hatred this would engender? Or already existed? How is Gargan being treated by the Kennedy family?

I think Ted got out of the car to hide in brush and told Mary Jo to take off. She must have seen this little road and turned into it fast and her car fell off that cursed bridge. This is why no one saw Ted wet. Or upset the next morning. Then Gargan and Markham show up to inform him Mary Jo drowned. Which is another reason he didn't call for help. He thought she got home safe.

Also, there were reports of E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis being seen on Martha's Vineyard. Which is another theory.

Kathy Collins

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The best book ever written about Chappaquidick, imho, is R.B. Cutler's "In Re: Chappaquidick." There is little speculation in the book, as it consists primarily of the official testimony of those who were on the island. I think we have three choices as to what happened at Chappaquidick that night. First, we accept the official account, which most of us believe is impossible. If we believe that, we must accept that Ted Kennedy was not only an uncaring clod, but also an amazing, agile athlete who was able to somehow escape underwater from the car and then swim across the ferry. We must also accept that his lack or morality was such that he could, under those circumstances, go to his motel room and sleep, and appear perfectly normal to the few people who saw him that night and the next morning. Second, we can accept the "Teddy Bare" theories of those who hate the Kennedys and think them capable of anything. To accept this, we must believe that Ted Kennedy either purposefully caused Mary Jo Kopechne's death, or was at least so reckless and irresponsible that he inadvertently caused it. Again, we must believe that he is morally capable of such acts. Third, for those of us who don't believe Ted's ridiculous story, or think him to be an immoral (or even criminal) monster, there is the theory that the accident was staged somehow by the same forces who assassinated his brothers, in order to stop his future presidential aspirations. The same mainstream media that has covered up the assassinations of the 1960s for decades also has confined itself, when reporting at all about Chappaquidick, to the first two theories I outlined above. The third alternative is never mentioned in polite company. Ted's story was basically accepted by the media (but not his right- wing opponents, and certainly not by much of the public at large), and buried for years thereafter. But when Ted decided to challenge Jimmy Carter for the Democratic nomination in 1980, suddenly the Chappaquidick story burst back into the headlines. Roger Mudd of CBS News conducted a real hatchet job on Ted, which was edited to make him look like a bumbling idiot, and his campaign (which was flying high until that point) never recovered. After that, Chappaquidick faded away again as an issue. For those of us who don't accept Ted's absurd explanation, but also cannot believe that he is capable of such despicable behavior, this is just another conspiracy.

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It's been a long time since I read Senatorial Privilege by Leo Damore, but I recall Damore making the rounds of NY radio talk shows. Then suddenly he's dead. I find this suspicious, as someone said he killed himself. I don't believe this for a minute. But what I couldn't get over was Joe Gargan, Ted's cousin, giving so much incriminating info about Ted to Damore for his book. Gargan really turned against Ted 20 odd years later. I've never found anything about that aspect. Can you imagine the hatred this would engender? Or already existed? How is Gargan being treated by the Kennedy family?

I think Ted got out of the car to hide in brush and told Mary Jo to take off. She must have seen this little road and turned into it fast and her car fell off that cursed bridge. This is why no one saw Ted wet. Or upset the next morning. Then Gargan and Markham show up to inform him Mary Jo drowned. Which is another reason he didn't call for help. He thought she got home safe.

Also, there were reports of E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis being seen on Martha's Vineyard. Which is another theory.

Kathy Collins

While researching Chappaquidick Leo Damore came across information about the Mary Pinchot Meyer murder. Eventually, he discovered the name of the man who killed her. He killed himself before the book was published. A friend of mine has a copy of this manuscript and has given me the name of the man who murdered Mary. He had close links to the intelligence services.

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My father-in-law is a NYC cab driver, retired. He drove from 1958 until about 1992.

Anyway, I was mentioning Mary Jo Kopechne in a conversation recently, and he goes " I had her in a cab" For a variety of reasons, I am prone to believe him.

He's 80, but sharp as a tack.

Anyway there's a couple of things I wanted to check out.

He said he drove her to the Marine Terminal of Laguardia and she was flying to Chappaquiddick.

I am 70 % per cent sure that he said it was on a Thursday.

Then he said he immediately recognized her in the Sunday ( I think ) Times, when he saw her picture with an article about the incident.

He desicribed her as very attractive, and very friendlly. My father in law is a talker, and didn't let anyone off the hook. He would have certainly

interacted with Kopechne, in a way that would have made him remember her.

Just wondering if anyone knows whether this checks out with the Kopechne timeline. Was she in NYC before going to Chappaquiddick? Did she leave from the

marine terminal? Was her arrival on a Thursday, and the fatefull party on a Saturday?

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Guest John Gillespie

Also, there were reports of E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis being seen on Martha's Vineyard. Which is another theory.

Kathy Collins

"While researching Chappaquidick Leo Damore came across information about the Mary Pinchot Meyer murder. Eventually, he discovered the name of the man who killed her. He killed himself before the book was published. A friend of mine has a copy of this manuscript and has given me the name of the man who murdered Mary. He had close links to the intelligence services."

Simkin

____________________

Okay, I'll bite. Hey Kathy, Elvis was seen there, too, and the only reason Bigfoot wasn't caught on film is that he likes the coast of Maine in the Summer.

Now, John, if you really are on to something here - and I've seen this Damore rumor before - you must do better than a vague reference here and a tangential link there. That's the stuff of blogs.

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