Who Killed JFK?: Poll and Discussion?

[Shanet Clark]

Good point Pat.

I would also point out the fact that Allen Dulles was glib and duplicitous and quite a few people thought he was an ally, when in fact he was a snake.

It seems clear that he came out of Sullivan Cromwell with an agenda to "undo" the "damage" that the war had done to US-German corporate mergers and inter relations, and his work on Paperclip and Gehlen org show a dangerous, militant reactionary in a position of power. He put on his liberal democratic face and wormed his way into the Kennedy inner circle, etc. and never should have been trusted, even if he did drop crumbs about the Cuban Invasion Plan to Jack Kennedy in 1960 during the campaign.

Pat is also correct to point out the gullible nature of naively believing Lyndon Johnson's version of events.

The Kennedy's may have thought Allen Dulles might serve their best interests and the best interests of justice and the American tradition, but if they did, they were wrong.

When Jack White saw Wim Dankbaar's list of Suspects in the Kennedy Assassination, he wrote in "WORKING FOR DULLES" after nearly every one,

and that was a great summary of the legal and covert lines of responsibility in 1963.

[Paul Smith (2)]

Good point Pat.

I would also point out the fact that Allen Dulles was glib and duplicitous and quite a few people thought he was an ally, when in fact he was a snake.

It seems clear that he came out of Sullivan Cromwell with an agenda to "undo" the "damage" that the war had done to US-German corporate mergers and inter relations, and his work on Paperclip and Gehlen org show a dangerous, militant reactionary in a position of power.  He put on his liberal democratic face and wormed his way into the Kennedy inner circle, etc. and never should have been trusted, even if he did drop crumbs about the Cuban Invasion Plan to Jack Kennedy in 1960 during the campaign.

Pat is also correct to point out the gullible nature of naively believing Lyndon Johnson's version of events.

The Kennedy's may have thought Allen Dulles might serve their best interests and the best interests of justice and the American tradition, but if they did, they were wrong.

When Jack White saw Wim Dankbaar's list of Suspects in the Kennedy Assassination, he wrote in "WORKING FOR DULLES" after nearly every one,

and that was a great summary of the legal and covert lines of responsibility in 1963.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would vote for the mob. Joe’s failure to pay them back politically after the election complemented by Bobby’s attacks on the mob leaders like Jimmy Hoffa and Carlos Marcellos the New Orleans crime boss had influence in Texas. Oswald was in New Orleans and had connections to Marcellos through friends. He would have been a perfect fall guy. The connection to the mob in Dallas with Ruby makes it even more believable. Every one that could have revealed the connection conveniently dies

[Mark Knight]

Now, it might be that my knowledge of the subject is quite limited; I was 9 years old when the JFK assassination occurred, and from the get-go there seemed to be something amiss about the lone-nut [LN], theory. From the time of the assassination onward, I have read everything I could get my hands on. I found it amazing that contemporaneous accounts went from "fusillade" or "hail" of gunfire to only three shots from behind, tied up neatly by the single-bullet theory [sBT], or, more accurately, the "MAGIC" bullet theory. I have in my collection of artifacts the LIFE magazines from immediately following the assination, thru the 1966 "A Matter Of Reasonable Doubt" LIFE article which first brought stills from Zapruder to the American public. I have books by Groden and Livingstone, Menninger, Epstein, Crenshaw, Bishop, and Manchester, as well as a host of others in my personal library. I have a 1964 hardcover of the summary of the Warren Commission, published by the Associated Press. And I have read and researched information on discussion forums all over the internet. The most intelligent discussions, and the best researched forums I've found are right here.

Having said that, I'd like to suggest another theory which ties into ALL the others about the JFK assassination: the idea of "dynamic convergence." That is...with all the facts we know now about what was going on both within and without the Kennedy administration, the Kennedy administration was rocketing on a course toward destruction on November 22, 1963; and the only question to be answered was whether it would implode on itself over sexual matters, the fall being completed by the November 22 congressional testimony of Don Reynolds taking Johnson down with the Kennedy ship of state, or whether the Cuban/MIC/Mafia(et al) conspiracies would strike pay-dirt first. Fact of the matter is, with all the festering secrets about to come to light, it's doubtful that either JFK or LBJ would have escaped with his political skin by January, 1964.

Mafia? Rosselli, Giancana, Hoffa...maybe, and then again maybe not. CIA? Quite possible, but still at this late date 40 years later "plausibly deniable." MIC? Big Oil? Maybe, but not without some help from one or more of the other elements just mentioned.

I have two possible scenarios to propose for discussion. The first would concern tying the JFK assassination, politically, together with MLK, RFK, and the shooting of George Wallace in 1972. In a political sense, who was the primary beneficiary of all these events? Richard Milhaus Nixon. JFK's election had dealt Nixon a serious blow to his political career, one that was compounded by his defeat for California governor in '62 and which led to the "won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore" comments. By 1963, the politically-savvy Nixon would have had to realize that with Kennedy's personal popularity, it would be at least 1968, if not 1972 or '76 if Bobby caught on with the public, before a Nixon presidency could happen. So JFK had to be eliminated for the sake of Nixon's political future. But Nixon was also savvy enough to realize that the LBJ sympathy vote, as JFK's sad-faced successor, couldn't be overcome in '64; he HAD to wait to run until '68.

By 1968, with the advent of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, the traditionally-Democratic black voters were listening to Dr. King, and Dr. King didn't have many nice things to say about Republicans. For Nixon to succeed against this newly-empowered black voting bloc, King had to be silenced...and he was. Whiel Eugene McCarthy was running away with the Democtatic presidential nomination, Bobby Kennedy was beginning to position himself as a viable candidate for at least the vice-presidential slot; and an already-embittered Nixon refused to watch himself lose yet another presidential election to a ticket with a Kennedy on the ballot. Bobby Kennedy had to be stopped...and he was. A demoralized McCarthy basically closed up shop after RFK's death, and the undistinguishable LBJ veep Hubert Humphrey was instead chosen to head up an easily-defeated Democratic slate.

In '72, Nixon was faced with another challenge: a 3-way race, which could possibly be decided in the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives, should no candidate garner a clear majority of votes. So Wallace was shot, and the choices came down to a gimp [wheelchair-bound Wallace], a wimp [McGovern], or...Nixon, who won in a landslide.

In this scenario, if you can determine exactly who was the power behind Nixon, you can determine who was behind all of these murders and attempted murders.

In my next post, I'll discuss the second scenario.

[Mark Knight]

The other scenario I referred to above concerns what I observed of the Secret Service during and after the JFK assassination. I think it's quite possible that the JFK assassination was the result of an exercise--training or whatever else you might call it--gone bad. It appears to me that, to a degree, there might have been some sort of exercise going on, with an "attack" and a "prevent" team, and the assassination was originally conceived as a simulation. Where things got ugly was that someone outside the original exercise--be it MIC, Cubans, Mafia, whomever--got wind of what was going down, and provided their own shooters armed with LIVE ammunition. That, of course, might explain why it took the SS so long to react when the gunfire began...because they KNEW it was just an exercise with blanks, at least until they saw blood and brains all over Elm Street, and why SS agents were seen pounding on cars in agony and frustration when it was apparently too late to act.

I've got exactly ZERO evidence to PROVE that theory, but that's one that has independently registered itself in my mind after looking at reams of testimony, photos, and movie footage.

Of course, I've often wondered just HOW coincidental it was that Dave Powers' home movie of the motorcade stopped just after the turn from Main onto Houston, denying historians yet another view of what actually occurred after the turn onto Elm.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Good point Pat.

I would also point out the fact that Allen Dulles was glib and duplicitous and quite a few people thought he was an ally, when in fact he was a snake.

It seems clear that he came out of Sullivan Cromwell with an agenda to "undo" the "damage" that the war had done to US-German corporate mergers and inter relations, and his work on Paperclip and Gehlen org show a dangerous, militant reactionary in a position of power.  He put on his liberal democratic face and wormed his way into the Kennedy inner circle, etc. and never should have been trusted, even if he did drop crumbs about the Cuban Invasion Plan to Jack Kennedy in 1960 during the campaign.

Pat is also correct to point out the gullible nature of naively believing Lyndon Johnson's version of events.

The Kennedy's may have thought Allen Dulles might serve their best interests and the best interests of justice and the American tradition, but if they did, they were wrong.

When Jack White saw Wim Dankbaar's list of Suspects in the Kennedy Assassination, he wrote in "WORKING FOR DULLES" after nearly every one,

and that was a great summary of the legal and covert lines of responsibility in 1963.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would vote for the mob. Joe’s failure to pay them back politically after the election complemented by Bobby’s attacks on the mob leaders like Jimmy Hoffa and Carlos Marcellos the New Orleans crime boss had influence in Texas. Oswald was in New Orleans and had connections to Marcellos through friends. He would have been a perfect fall guy. The connection to the mob in Dallas with Ruby makes it even more believable. Every one that could have revealed the connection conveniently dies

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem here Paul, is how did The Mob handle the massive cover

up needed to protect their a*** I feel like many on this Forum, that

the mob were a fall back position( one of many) Insurance if you like,

should the main story fail for some reason.

[Tim Gratz]

How about all of the above?

If one person seems a sure conspirator, it is Santo Trafficante, Jr., who admitted his participation to his attorney.

Trafficante was requested by Hoffa, through that same attorney, to kill Kennedy. Trafficante may very well have received a similar request from Castro, who was allowing Trafficante to use Cuba to ship drugs into the U.S. (Is it only a coincidence that everytime a group of assassins went into Cuba (under the supposed aegis of Trafficante) they were immediately caught? And through his associate Rosselli Trafficante could have even involved anti-Castro Cubans, perhaps even renegade elements of the CIA. Someone has called assassination "politics by bloodshed" (provided the assassination is a political act rather than an act of irrational lunacy). So perhaps there were strange bedfellows who participated in the assassination. The participation of disparate factions, each of whom had reasons for desiring Kennedy's death, may have guaranteed the success of the plot and the inevitability of the cover-up.

Trafficante was in a unique position to put those groups together. And, in my opinion, he had the brains to do it. There is a reason he was the only major Mafia chief never to spend a day in prison and, be it not forgotten, the only mafioso involved in the plots against Castro to escape a violent death.

[Harry J.Dean]

I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread where we vote and speculate on who killed JFK.

I will start the ball by suggesting the Military Industrial Complex. The operation was a complete success and the group achieved all its objectives. This includes the cover up that involved the implication of several groups and individuals in the plot. One reason for this was to guarantee the help of these individuals and groups in the cover up. This involved implicating LBJ, the CIA, the FBI and the Secret Service. It also involved implicating the Kennedy brothers in other terrible events. This ensured that the Kennedy family and its close associates joined in the cover up. This cover up included both the Warren Commission and the House Select Committee of Assassinations (this involved a change in tactics with the finger now being pointed at the Mafia).

It also included a far more sinister cover up that will have long term implications for the history of the world. I believe that the CIA and FBI were involved in destroying a large number of documents relating to the assassination in November/December, 1963. These were replaced with false documents that have yet to be released. These documents will only become available when all those who are referred to are dead. These documents, because of the fact they have been held back, will be believed to be genuine. They will do two things: (1) They will show that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman. (2) They will link the Kennedy brothers with a series of crimes and wrongdoings, including the murder of Marilyn Monroe. Others smeared will be those associated with what the Military Industrial Complex would refer to as dangerous radicals (Martin Luther King, etc.)

I believe that the people behind the assassination were representatives of what Eisenhower called the Military Industrial Complex. The main objective was to ensure the continuance of the Cold War. To achieve this they had the convince the American public that they faced a real communist threat. The presence of a revolutionary communist government on its doorstep (Cuba) was permanent evidence of this. So also was the presence of WMD in the Soviet Union and China. As in Iraq, we now know the CIA and MI5 exaggerated this threat.

Therefore we have to identify the representatives of the Military Industrial Complex in the government. Their main man was John McCone, Director of the CIA. That is not to say that the assassination of JFK was a CIA operation (although it did use a CIA agent, David Morales, to organize the assassination).

McCone is a classical case of a representative of the Military Industrial Complex. The owner of a small engineering company before the war, between 1942-45 his new company, California Shipbuilding, made $44 million in profits from an investment of $100,000.

After the war McCone was brought into the government and served as Deputy to the Secretary of Defense (1948) and Under Secretary of the Air Force (1950-1951). What did he know about these matters? Only that it was in the best interests of MIC to spend increasing amounts of money on the arms trade. McCone was an ardent Cold War warrior and in 1956 attacked the suggestion made by Adlai Stevenson that there should be a nuclear test ban. McCone accused American scientists of being "taken in" by Soviet propaganda and of attempting to "create fear in the minds of the uninformed that radioactive fallout from H-bomb tests endangers life." Read that quote again if you did not get it the first time. Now that is what I call disinformation.

In 1958 Eisenhower appointed McCone as Chairman of the Atomic Energy commission. After the Bay of Pigs disaster, President John F. Kennedy sacked Allen W. Dulles as Director of the CIA. Under pressure from right-wingers in the intelligence community, Kennedy appointed McCone as the new director.

Morales was put in charge of the assassination. He employed people he had been working with in Miami to undermine the government of Cuba. This included figures in the ant-Castro Cuban community. It also involved American military advisers to groups like Alpha 66. The Cubans believed that the reason for this plot was that after the assassination of JFK, LBJ would order the invasion of Cuba. In fact, this was never the objective. It was part of the overall conspiracy to keep Castro in power. The presence of a communist state so close to the United States helped to reinforce the communist threat and the need for massive arms spending.

The Cubans would obviously feel betrayed when they realised Castro would not be toppled. Those Cubans who knew anything about the assassination had to be got rid of. Soon after the assassination most of this group were sent on a mission to kill Castro and create a reason for the United States to invade Cuba. This group was betrayed to the Cuban Secret Service. As a result they were executed in Cuba. A few Cubans remained. Some of these were the victims of hit men (who had no idea why they were killing them).

I believe one or two of these survived. They, like me, took out an insurance policy. They recorded what they knew about the case and placed the information with lawyers, solicitors, etc. These documents, tapes, etc. were only to be released in event of their dying in suspicious circumstances. These people have become untouchable. They are the only ones who will ever be able to provide any hard evidence of this conspiracy. Even if they do talk, they will only have evidence of a small part of the plot. No one will have information that implicates anyone higher than Morales. The conspiracy was a complete success. Or can we fight back?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Subversive NEW AMERICANIST 'COMBINATION' that General E.A.Walker served in both military and civilian life, with it's framework so cunningly in place for more than half a century, moved quickly to consolidate and hold Perpetual Power over a bewildered {U.S.} government and a confused nation, after Kennedy entered Texas, his life was in the deadly hands of 'extremist veteran riflemen' of Walker's former Munich, Germany 24th Infantry Command. This religio/politic combination has since controlled all legal and moral judgements, and dictate their own version of history where-in no person{s} will ever be tried or convicted for assassinating the president.

[Mark Stapleton]

How about all of the above?

If one person seems a sure conspirator, it is Santo Trafficante, Jr., who admitted his participation to his attorney.

Trafficante was requested by Hoffa, through that same attorney, to kill Kennedy.  Trafficante may very well have received a similar request from Castro, who was allowing Trafficante to use Cuba to ship drugs into the U.S.  (Is it only a coincidence that everytime a group of assassins went into Cuba (under the supposed aegis of Trafficante) they were immediately caught?  And through his associate Rosselli Trafficante could have even involved anti-Castro Cubans, perhaps even renegade elements of the CIA.  Someone has called assassination "politics by bloodshed" (provided the assassination is a political act rather than an act of irrational lunacy).  So perhaps there were strange bedfellows who participated in the assassination.  The participation of disparate factions, each of whom had reasons for desiring Kennedy's death, may have guaranteed the success of the plot and the inevitability of the cover-up.

Trafficante was in a unique position to put those groups together.  And, in my opinion, he had the brains to do it.  There is a reason he was the only major Mafia chief never to spend a day in prison and, be it not forgotten, the only mafioso involved in the plots against Castro to escape a violent death.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim,

If, as you suggest, Santo Trafficante Jnr. masterminded the assassination then how did he persuade LBJ to empanel the WC? How did he persuade the DPD to destroy evidence? How did he persuade the FBI and the Secret Service to harass witnesses into changing their statements? And how did he dissuade the American media from laughing at the Warren Report?

[Ron Ecker]

In trying to determine who killed JFK, one might start with the obvious. One agency's involvement is clear from the fact that Rip Robertson and Lucien Conein can both be seen standing at the corner of Main and Houston. I must say that I don't buy some if not most of the so-called lookalikes in Dealey Plaza (e.g. Billie Sol Estes or James McCord), but I buy Robertson and Conein because it is so obvious. There they are, spitting images standing within spitting distance of each other. Ergo the CIA was involved. One might say, well these were "rogue agents." I'm sick of seeing that term. These men worked for the CIA, that's who paid them for all their dirty tricks. And I strongly suspect that their superiors knew exactly what they were up to, which is why these men had no qualms about being there, arrogantly out in the open, to see the show, even if that's not the way spooks are supposed to operate. No one was going to do a damn thing about it. John Q Public didn't know what they looked like, indeed had never heard of them, anyway.

The second most obvious guilty party is the U.S. military, which was going to have its Vietnam war one way or another. The JFK assassination was Operation Northwoods put into play, after JFK (or his surrogate McNamara) had turned down the military's plan for Cuba a year earlier. JFK, not ordinary citizens, became the Northwoods target whose victimization would be blamed on Castro, to prompt an invasion of Cuba, prior to moving along to Vietnam.

The idea that blaming Castro for the JFK hit was only a story to be fed to the anti-Castro Cubans and was not really part of the plot, is intriguing but effectively belied by Operation Northwoods. The desire of the U.S. military to invade Cuba and get rid of Castro was real, otherwise the proposal of Operation Northwoods by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1962 didn't make any sense. They didn't need Castro as a continuing enemy, he was too insignificant, he could be brushed aside in a day, hardly the kind of threat needed to keep the arms industry rolling. They still had the Russian bear plus the new evil enemy Ho Chi Minh and his Viet Cong. Later they would have Usama bin Laden, and his CIA-created Al Qaeda, as the great evil enemy who must not be killed or captured. In comparison, Castro was nothing but a bug to be stamped out for causing more trouble than he was worth including the embarrassment of the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis.

The third most obvious guilty party was Lyndon Johnson. He had perhaps the strongest motive of all, a desire to stay out of prison, on top of the ruthless ambition that marked his whole career. Hollywood scriptwriters could not have come up with a politician any lower in character and ruthlessness. It's almost comical to think that Johnson wasn't involved in getting rid of JFK. And he had the incredible luck of having so many other people or agencies who wanted to get rid of JFK too. But he only needed two, the military and CIA, to pull it off, with his good fascist friend Hoover to help cover up whatever needed to be covered up. Who proposed the hit first is almost immaterial, since they were probably all thinking about it simultaneously (LBJ and his wealthy Texas backers thinking about it perhaps from the day he got on the ticket), though it can be said that the military first proposed it for practical purposes, with Operation Northwoods, in 1962. All they had to do was dust off the plan in 1963.

Ron

[Mark Knight]

Ron, I believe you're on the right track. JFK was being baited toward war for his entire administration. The most obvious examples were the BOP, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the Vietnam situation he inherited from Ike.

But here's something else we can't rule out: the NSC/JCS allegedly wanted a pre-emptive NUCLEAR strike on the Soviet Union, according to information from James K. Galbraith:

http://www.prospect.org/print/V5/19/galbraith-j.html

According to the information I've seen on this, the "window of opportunity" in which the US's nuclear superiority over the USSR would stil provide a favorable outcome, was projected to close in the third quarter of 1963. And since JFK has let the window close, he was endangering national security, in the eyes of some powerful people.

Is that reason enough to kill him, or have him killed? If you add this to the information already known, it may have been enough to tip the scales.

Edited April 12, 2005 by Mark Knight

[Shanet Clark]

RE: TIM GRATZ

We all wondered what Gratz, the "critical reporter" was doing in Madison Wisconsin back in the day....now we know.....he was a henchman of Donald Segretti, Karl Rove and various authorized dirty tricksters......Tim Gratz was the guy infiltrating a liberal college town and getting mixed up with the whole ARTHUR BREMER COLSON SEGRETTI WH OPERATION.

You have definitely been tumbled, Tim.

All your bonhomie and bombast won't get you out of this one, fellow member.

You know all this along, that YOU YOURSELF was a published figure in the PLUMBERS 1972 disruptions and agents provocateur actions

{Culminating in the shooting of GEORGE WALLACE, Tim?}

You should have come clean long ago, the cover up establishes the error, once again.

No more Castro did it theories, okay?

No more KGB killed JFK windbag schemes, okay?

No more world exclusives based on the obscene ramblings of Gerry Hemmings, Okay?

Sayonara baby

Edited May 13, 2005 by Shanet Clark

[Shanet Clark]

Mark and Jim and Members;

Have you all read "The Puzzle Palace" by James Bamford?

He also wrote "Pretext for War" about 9/11 and the current US/Iraq war.

That was my main source on the role of the NSA in preventing assassinations.

The NSA was a fully mobilized "black bag" and covert ops agency, and its status as a military agency is still debated.

My point is, again, that quite a bit of covert domestic joint agency operations had little or nothing to do with the CIA itself.

People forget that,

but with Oswald, Edwin Walker and the Mannlicher Carcano case of 1963,

I say the CIA was a minor player........the ONI springs to mind, because of JFK's background, Oswald's background and the conservatism of the "admiralty"

Who was in a position to judge a president's loyalty, his clearance or his capacity?

Not really the CIA, that type of executive clearance is something that would emerge from JCS or Betheda Hospital and the Secretary of the Navy or Treasury, based on NSA originating information.

Compared to the NSA, JCS and MI agencies,

the FBI and CIA are just window dressings

.......

This post has been edited by Shanet Clark: May 15 2005, 11:50 PM

--------------------

Shanet

"Compared to the NSA, JCS and MI agencies, the FBI and CIA are just window dressings"

Couldn't agree more. Remember that in the 50's NSA stood for No Such Agency.

I might add that before the US entry into WWII John J. McCloy was sent by the Secretary of War, with the blessing of the President, to study the British Intelligence system. He then established and oversaw the OSS, although Donavan is given the credit. He was the lead agent in keeping portions of the Army Intelligence Agencies alive when Truman ordered the OSS disolved. McCloy wrote the plan and authorized the orders that led to the development of the CIA and the NSC. He was around for the beginning of NSA, NATO and the regeneration of Germany.

It is my belief that McCloy is the one man who was tasked with keeping all the "agencies" together just as the British have a single person they designate as "C" for CHIEF over all intelligence organizations.

Jim Root

Shanet Clark Yesterday, 08:20 PM Post #27

Super Member

Group: Members

Posts: 1007

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Member No.: 1708

So McCloy is the executive, in the executive sanction model.

Max Taylor was the Military Executive, CD Dillon the Treasury Secret Service Executive...it just takes a few.

The Twenty Fifth Amendment makes it clear that a small counsel of Presidential Advisors had the ability to remove a President.

Taylor, Dulles, McCloy, McCone, these were the executives of the day,

who saw themselves as the sovereign force.........

THANKS TO ALL MEMBERS STUDENTS AND INTERNATIONAL OBSERVERS

Edited May 17, 2005 by Shanet Clark

[Norman T. Field]

Greetings all, while my 1st post, I have been following this subject since '63 when I was 12 years old.

Was Organized crime involved? Absolutely. Bill Roemer (FBI in Chicago at the time) makes numerous mentions in his books about Sam Giancana bragging that a hit on Kennedy was in the works that were picked up on illegal FBI wiretaps at the time. There is much other corroboration, including "Mafia Kingfish" by (I think) Davis (who is a Bouvier, Jackie's cousin) and some real tantalizing stuff in "I Heard You Paint Houses", which details the life of one Frank Sheehan, who apparently killed Jimmy Hoffa.

Did they originate the plot, I doubt it. The hit is easy, the coverup is hard, even with Meyer Lansky's alleged dirt on J. Edgar Hoover (pictures of him going down on Clyde). Particularly in view of subsequent Watergate events, I really like a CIA - right wing coalition. This is a true coming together of many factions who all wanted the same thing.

The Mafia: payback for Joe Kennedy setting his sons after his old business partners, plus anger over the loss of casinos in Cuba. The #1 rule for these folks is; you take our money you leave us alone. JFK never would have been nominated if not for what Giancana did for him in West Virginia, let alone in the actual election in Illinois. Add in things like Bobby's ilegal deportation of Carlos Marcello or Hoffa's request to Russel Buffalino that Kennedy be hit (see "I Heard You Paint ... referenced above) and you have a bunch of real angry people with a lot of useful connections. Don't forget that Jack Ruby was the Outfit (Chicago organized crime) man in Dallas (which reported to Chicago, as did almost everyone west of the Missisipi at that time). He was no minor flunkie, he was the man in charge of bribing the local police. Now we know why he had access at any time to the police station.

The CIA: JFK was apparently ready to pull us out of Viet Nam, I have read that he signed an executive order to begin this process b4 he left for Dallas. This would shut down the CIA heroin pipeline that used Air America to ship opium from SE Asia to Charley Luciano's heroin labs in Sicily (the famous French Connection).

Big Texas Oil men: JFK wanted to repeal the oil depletion allowance! I imagine this would be enough to make people like H.L. Hunt go ballistic. Here is all the funding and political connections anybody would want. Plus, their man is currently the VP. Let's not forget that Lyndon became the VP cuz he blackmailed the Kennedys with dirt obtained from J. Edgar Crossdresser. Backing down on the ICBM's in Turkey to resolve the Cuban missle crisis could set some veins bulging on these guys as well.

Frustrated Cuban revolutionaries: After JFK pulled the plug on the BOP air support, these guys were mad enough to hit the Pope, what a perfect source for trained, expendable personel.

This is a coalition with the will, means and resources to perform not just the hit, but also the coverup. Which worked so well that they did it again and again. MLK, RFK, George Wallace, maybe even John Lennon (who Hoover despised beyond reason).

I eagerly await the next volume of Robert Cairo's LBJ biography, which I suspect may not be published until after his passing. The man's research is truly amazing. There are stories attributed to the Secret Service man in Johnson's car that Johnson was on the floor of his limo before the 1st shot rang out. I doubt he was a principle, but I am confident that he was in the loop.

[John Simkin]

I eagerly await the next volume of Robert Cairo's LBJ biography, which I suspect may not be published until after his passing. The man's research is truly amazing. There are stories attributed to the Secret Service man in Johnson's car that Johnson was on the floor of his limo before the 1st shot rang out. I doubt he was a principle, but I am confident that he was in the loop. 

Welcome to the Forum. It is always good to have knowledgeable new members.

This is a book I am also looking forward to reading. I have heard that he is waiting for the death of Lady Bird before he delivers the manuscript.

Like you I don’t believe LBJ organized the assassination but he was the most important figure in the cover-up. LBJ definitely was a main beneficially of the assassination. So were his friends in the oil industry and the arms industry that were part of the Suite 8F Group.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKgroup8F.htm

[Shanet Clark]

I have heard that LBJ was down on the floorboards WITH A RADIO PRESSED TO HIS EAR as the shots filled Dealey Plaza.

One of the reasons I joined the FORUM and put forward my theory is to respond to the BARR MCCLELLAN school of thought that Lyndon was the originator of the ambush. I seek to clarify the situation and present evidence that a small group of executives were the originators and JOHNSON was handed a fait accompli by these executives, CD DILLON, Kennedy's Republican Secretary of the Treasury and Secret Service, MAXWELL TAYLOR of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and other cabinet level Presidential advisors.

The Vice President, while a cynical and ruthless man, did not have the authority to do what was done in Dallas and Bethesda, but was part of a small group of EXECUTIVES invoking EXECUTIVE SANCTION of the President.

The 25th Amendment (written in 1963 and ratified in 1967) makes it clear that a small group of cabinet level executives can remove the President, and given Kennedy's private life, his security clearance was reviewed and he was removed by a small clique of powerful militant Cold War enemies.

This is basically a more articulated and shaded version of the old saw:

"the government did it"

( )

I eagerly await the next volume of Robert Cairo's LBJ biography, which I suspect may not be published until after his passing. The man's research is truly amazing. There are stories attributed to the Secret Service man in Johnson's car that Johnson was on the floor of his limo before the 1st shot rang out. I doubt he was a principle, but I am confident that he was in the loop.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome to the Forum. It is always good to have knowledgeable new members.

This is a book I am also looking forward to reading. I have heard that he is waiting for the death of Lady Bird before he delivers the manuscript.

Like you I don’t believe LBJ organized the assassination but he was the most important figure in the cover-up. LBJ definitely was a main beneficially of the assassination. So were his friends in the oil industry and the arms industry that were part of the Suite 8F Group.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKgroup8F.htm

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